Math Prof Apologizes for Test Question

What about Liberal cartoonists that have portrayed Rice as a big-lipped parrot sitting on Bush's shoulder? Is that racially insensitive and insulting?

This question was not insulting. The way some people interpreted it was insulting. Those that had a problem with it should likely take a clearer look at their personal stereotypes.

That said, I also think there was no need to change the question to use Condi either. He just opened himself up to criticism. Oh well.

I also think there was no need to change the question to use Condi either.

Agreed, I wonder if an apology was also offered to Gallagher, since he was orignally used in the question?

The prof was just trying to make the test more interesting. I'm sure it is just coincidence that it happened to be a watermelon and a black woman. The watermelon was just a leftover from when the question regarded Gallagher.

For those of you who truly didn't get the connection between the watermelon and the stereotype---you are proof that progress can and is being made. It may very well be that the racial connotations of the question were completely inadvertent. But for those who don't understand, imagine a time not long ago---well within the lifetime of many alive today, including myself---when stereotypical remarks like these were made frequently, deliberately, and with great malice. If the 'black community' is seen as oversensitive today, they come by it honestly I assure you. Hopefully there will come a day when such stereotypes truly are forgotten by all. But that day is not yet here.

But, couldn't it also be said that the teacher was trying to "smash" the steriotype? I mean after all, she was throwing the Watermelon away, not eating it.

I may not be black, but on the whole I think this is as racist as saying "Prince William threw a scone from the top of Buckingham Palace.

Besides, I'm taking a math class right now that has to do these type of equations, and it's boring. I don't blaim the teacher for trying to make it interesting. Because trust me, on it's own it's horrible. My math teacher just makes up stupid jokes instead.

I am not black myself, but I don't know that

stereotypical remarks like these were made frequently, deliberately, and with great malice

For me to buy into that premise then the idea of a black person and a watermellon in the same sentence would be by default insulting. I just don't buy it. I am sure the question could be worded in such a way as to be offensive, but in this case I see the complaints as hypersensitivity and I don't agree that it was 'come by honestly'.

One caveat. If you could show me where this teacher consistently pushes the line toward being offensive to blacks, then I would likely have a different opinion. I didn't get the impression that this was true from the article.

@vannevar - very well put. I had no idea of the racial connotations - and am very happy that I was unaware - because I agree, maybe progress is being made. Several summers ago I toured with the music artist D'Angelo and became very cautious about what I said - afraid that I would offend someone. Finally, one of my fellow workers asked me why I was being so weird - and I told him - he just laughed and said that it is people who keep the stereotypes alive by seeing them everywhere that are perpetuating racism and trying to see it everywhere - even in people who are in no way racist. I stopped being so cautious and acted like myself - and had a much better time - and actually made friends. When walking on eggshells, you are more likely to break yourself than to do any good to the eggs.

daweb---I'm not black either, but I can tell you for a fact that these remarks were made frequently because I grew up with people who made them. I'm happy to hear that you have been insulated from such things, but many others unfortunately have not. There are any number of good books and documentaries on America during the civil rights movement, I would suggest that you check them out if you doubt the pervasiveness of racism in this country at one time.

Really, perhaps you could provide a link to an article or book that talks about 'racist' remarks about famous black people throwing a watermellon in a math test. I would really like to see that.

If what you mean is that an association was made between blacks and watermellon, then that is different. What I am saying is that I just don't buy the idea that mentioning a black person in the same sentence, story, etc. as a watermellon is by default racist. Look at the question again

Condoleezza holds a watermelon just over the edge of the roof of the 300-foot Federal Building, and tosses it up with a velocity of 20 feet per second.

and please try to show me where/how it is racist. It is not a matter of being 'insulated' from racism (I was not) but rather a matter of being intelligent and able to read.

And as I pointed out in my original post, I'm happy that you don't immediately draw the connection. I hope that in the future, no one will. My point is that many still do. I did not intend to demean your experience, only to observe that you had not apparently been exposed to the watermelon stereotype.

If you had been, you certainly might have asked yourself why the author chose that particular person and that particular fruit. He says that the previous personality he used was Gallagher. Gallagher's connection to the watermelon is well known. What might be Condaleezza's connection, do you suppose?

And again I will merely reject your notion that the mere mention of a black person in the same sentence as a watermelon is racist. I think that anyone that thinks so is being clearly hypersensitive.

You keep repeating the notion that I have not been 'exposed to the watermelon stereotype'. I will merely tell you again that it is not an accurate statement. I have been exposed to it, but I also have certain reasoning facilities that look beyond just the appearance of two words in the same sentence before my brain will immediately jump to accusations of racism. No apologies offered for that either.

I stated earlier and I stand by it, that if you immediately jump to thoughts of racism when you hear this question then I think you need to examine your own views not the views of this teacher. Had there been any history of offensive behaviour I would have a different opinion, but that has not been shown.

So when you read the question, it did occur to you that this might be a reference to the stereotype, but then you applied your reasoning skills and concluded that it might be simply coincidence. To construct that chain of logic, you would take into account your experience. If your experience tells you that racism (whether concious or unconcious) is rare, you would be more likely to side with mere coincidence, absent additional evidence.

If on the other hand your experience indicates that racism is rather common, then is it so unreasonable to question whether coincidence alone explains the question? After all, the possible combinations of famous people and objects to throw is quite large, isn't it? What are the odds, in your estimation, that a particular combination would fit a pre-existing stereotype?

My point here is not to say that the question was definitely racist, only to take issue with your contention that anyone who finds it so is being irrational.

So when you read the question, it did occur to you that this might be a reference to the stereotype, but then you applied your reasoning skills and concluded that it might be simply coincidence.

Please do not put words into my mouth. I am not a student at this school and read the question as a part of this article. When I read the question I continued reading wondering where the racism was. As I have already pointed out, I do not find the fact that a person whom happens to be black being mentioned in the same sentence or paragraph as a particular fruit to be racist. Just not the way it works. If you could show me how this particular question was racist I would be surprised.

To help you out, here are the google define results.

racial taunts, graffiti.
www.alcdsb.on.ca/antibullyinghotline/definition.htm

based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks"
a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Racism has many different definitions. Historically, it has been defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others, and/or that individuals should be treated differently according to their racial designation. Sometimes racism means beliefs, practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racist

Now, based on this, could you show me where any of the following occur.
- is the question based on racial (or any other) intolerance?
- Does the question express a belief that one race is superior to others?
- Does the question discriminate on the basis of race or religion?
- Does the question indicate that any human capacitiy is inherently superior or inferior based on race?
- Does the question indicate that any individual should be treated differently on the basis of race?
- Does the question demonstrate any beliefs, practices, or institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race?

Perhaps what you should start with is to define what you mean when you say 'racist' and also describe exactly how this question fits your definition of 'racist'.

I think we would both agree that the original stereotype is racist, and that the association of blacks with watermelon has in the past been used in a demeaning way. If not, there's not much point in continuing the discussion; I'm not going to waste space here elaborating on why Stepin Fetchit was a racist caricature.

Once we agree that the stereotype is a negative image, the question is whether the exam perpetuates the stereotype. You don't think it does, and as I indicated in my first post, I'm fine with that; you're entitled to your opinion. But you went a step further, and said that no one could reasonably think otherwise. I beg to differ; I think people who have experienced real racism are entirely reasonable to suspect it in this case.

You say that although you are familiar with the stereotype, it did not occur to you when you read the question. Fine; the stereotype hasn't played any significant role in your life or the lives of your parents. I suppose it's reasonable that you didn't recall it until it was brought up in discussion. But what if it had more significance to you, if it had been used against you at some point?

If you were...black?

Isn't it likely that it would be the first thing you thought of when you read the question?

As for my own opinion, I suspect that the stereotype did play a role in the question, though perhaps only unconsciously. I doubt that the original version of the question had Gallagher atop the Federal Building; the location was obviously changed to match the new personality, Condi Rice. Why then wasn't the object changed as well? Condi's known to be a big football fan, why not have her tossing a football off the building? I think that the watermelon image triggered an association with the old stereotype (which the 60-year-old teacher would surely have been familiar with), which in turn led to the selection of a black person as the personality.

But reasonable minds could differ...

How does that saying go? Give a man a hammer and everything becomes a nail? The point is that if a person wants to see racism everywhere, they will. Often times this can be a result of racism directed towards them throughout their lives, but sometimes it is, like the hammer, just a tool to accomplish some means. There are times when black advocacy groups come off looking the latter. They are not interested in something like this because it is truly racist; it is merely a means to an end, and calling it racist helps them achieve that end. Follow? What that end is I couldn't tell you, but don't discount the possibility behind their motives.

jmack02---

It is true that politicians are opportunistic, and black politicians are no exception. Neither, of course, are white politicians. Even as we speak, politicians on both sides of the immigration issue are exploiting racial tension for political gain.

In terms of the broader community, I suspect that there is less racism today than most blacks believe, and more than most whites believe. But there was a time not long ago when there was plenty of it to go around, when blacks were literally second class citizens and racism was official government policy. They didn't just make up a racist bogeyman because they wanted to believe in it. As I said earlier, they come by their suspicions honestly.

@vannevar - I stated right off the bat that those that saw racism in the question need (and should) look at their own interpretation of the question rather then at the question itself. Thanks for proving my point for me.

Since you obviously see rasism in the question (racism you can't yet define mind you) I suggest you examine your own thought process in this regard.

vannevar-- I want a straight answer on this. If you've stated explicitly already, please forgive me.

Are you implying that any mention of a person who had African ancestors, with or without actual overt reference to that person's race or skin color, and the mention of a watermelon, in the same sentence or paragraph, is always legitimately viewable as a racist reference? And that it always indicates racist itent on the part of the statement's framer?

ronaldscott,

In a word, no. My point here is that under the circumstances described, it was not unreasonable for someone to take offense at the question. I did not state that the racist connotation was deliberate---as daweb points out, we don't know the teacher's history. I do believe that it played at least an unconscious role, for the reasons outlined in my previous post.

daweb,

If you read my post, you'll see that I took as an assumption that the stereotype is a racist one, used historically to demean just as described by your own definition of racism. If you can't accept that the stereotype itself is an expression of racism, I certainly don't expect you to be able to see any racism in the question.

If on the other hand you do see racism in the stereotype, then surely the logic of my previous posts isn't that hard to follow. Keep in mind that a regrettable remark doesn't have to be made consciously to justify an apology; we've all been in situations where we say the wrong thing in front of someone who's had a bad experience. And what is our instinct in such a situation? To apologize, of course. We don't berate them for being oversensitive.

The fact that there exists a stereotype that includes blacks and watermelon is not the debate, the debate here is whether or not this question made use of the stereotype. You seem to be claiming that ANY sentence that contains both automatically implies the stereotype. I think that anyone that reads a sentence containing blacks and watermelon and automatically assumes it is a demeaning or racist reference is themselves guilty of racism.

I thought I had been clear but perhaps I have not. I feel that anyone that reads that question and automatically jumps to an accusation of racism is themselves being racist. They are making the assumption that since the professor is white he is, as a function of his race, limited to only using watermelon and blacks in a sentence in a racist manner. I hope this clears it up for you.

Whoa. Read ronaldscott's question above, then read my reply. I'm not claiming that any such sentence is racist, only that under the facts presented here, it is not unreasonable to suspect racism.

I understand your contention that anyone finding the question racist is jumping to an unwarranted conclusion, and so must be racist themselves. I've offered a clear, logical explanation to refute that specific argument. Note that a reasonable belief is not always correct; two people can disagree about who will win a football game, and only one of them will be right. It doesn't mean the other is being irrational.

For your part, you've never responded to that chain of reasoning, which relies as much on mathematics as it does on history. There is some large number of n combinations that could have appeared in that question. I ask you again, what do you estimate the odds are against a random combination matching a racial stereotype? Speaking strictly mathematically, with no other information to go on, it is statistically more likely that the question was influenced by the stereotype than that it was produced by random chance.

The race of the teacher is irrelevant to whether the question is related to the stereotype. Harry Belafonte used racial stereotyping to criticize then-Secreatry of State Colin Powell. The stereotype was nontheless offensive, and Sec Powell certainly thought so. Is he too a racist?

I don't know that I would really go so far as to say that anyone that finds the question is a racist, but I do think they ARE excersizing racist tendancies.

I do not think it was random, I accept the supposition put forth by the teacher. he had an existing question using Galagher and a watermelon (probably wasn't the federal building either). he probably first changed it to Rice to make it more relevant to today and then moved it to the federal building because he had changed it to Rice. it makes sense and untill someone can show it otherwise I am not of a mind to not accept it.

Fair enough. I've already laid out my arguments to the contrary, and that's about all I can do. I think we're the last people left in this thread, so I'm going to make this my last post. Thanks for the discussion, it's been thought-provoking in any event.

There is some large number of n combinations that could have appeared in that question. I ask you again, what do you estimate the odds are against a random combination matching a racial stereotype?

See, now here is part of the problem, I do NOT accept that this question 'matched' a racial stereotype.

Now, if the question had been something like, "Shawnda was walking down the street to pick up her welfare check when she noticed someone about to drop a watermelon from a nearby building, alarmed at the waste of such a fine fruit, she funs towards the building. If the building is 60 feet high, and she is 40 feet away how fast must she run to catch the watermelon?"

*THAT* would be a racist question.

I think we are quick to judge this teacher's intentions. If he says that he didn't try to create an insulting question, then we can accept his apology and move on. Yes, it's quite possible he did intend for it to be interpreted as the black community leaders believe. However, it's almost a stereotype in and of itself if we accept that every white teacher who is accused of racist intentions really is racist.

I hate PC too... and must admit that I find it funny. But it clearly is "racist" to an extent. You could have C. Rice holding anything up over the roof, but he chose a watermelon? Don't you think that its pretty obvious.

How bout this: A white guy has designated X amount of hours in his daily schedule to learn how to dance so that he can compete with other people at the local club. If he works on his rhythm for 14 hours a day for 6 days a week, how many months does he have to put in before he is able to dance?"

Stuff like this I think people have to be light-hearted about, but I can see how it could be inflammatory to some

Because the vast majority of the kids he teaches probably are not even aware that there is a potentially racial issue. To most, it is just a question about the velocity of a watermelon. And I agree with others here, I think some in the african-american community are way oversensitive about this. Is there any indication that this an intentional racial slur? If there is, then yes, maybe he should be terminated. But I am simply not seeing any evidence of that here. Are you suggesting that every time KFC airs a commercial that has a group of black people eating chicken that they are being racist? There is a difference between being purposefully racist with the intention of causing or inflicting harm and including Condi's name in a math question that happened to use watermelons for the example.

Chill out man. How is this obviously racist? Black people eat a lot of watermelons? So what?

@PuzzlesWithoutPictures

A white guy has designated X amount of hours...

Unfortunately, not a valid comparison. This teacher simply used a prominent person as his subject. He never mentioned anything about race. It could just as well have been President Bush up on that roof, but because Rice happens to be black, people immediately begin drawing their own conclusions.

Watermelons were frequently used in my physics class problems. There were watermelons launched from cannons, watermelons dropped from skyscrapers, watermelons riding on trains--come on people, any race can throw, drop, or eat watermelon. Unless there is more to this story than we're told, this teacher is getting thumped for nothing.

Exam Question #1: "A math instructor writes a math problem which, for some CRAZY reason, features a famous person. The wind is blowing 12 mph to the west. How long will it take for everyone to make a fuss about it?"

losvedir,

Thank you. You made me laugh out loud. Does that make me racist???

Patrick

And for the record, I don't think the professor should be fired or beaten. A reprimand is more than adequate and his apology probably means that he understands the ramifications of what he said.

When I saw the headline, I was expecting something much more inflammatory.
I'd not even made the connection between racism and watermelon until after it was pointed out to me explicitly. Of course, that might just be the fact that I've lived in the Northeast and Ann Arbor, Michigan ever since my age became a double-digit number. I totally missed any sort of racist connection.

Dancing, on the other hand. That's funny. It's also... true to a great extent. All of my "white" friends fully admit to it.

I strongly suspect the quickness with which the Board of Trustees seized upon the watermelon connection. Might it be them who have that personal prejudice, and not the professor?

Seriously: "random VIP who's black" + "delicious, round, projectile-like, imagery-of-smashing-into-smithereens watermelon" = "OMFG racism to the max!!!!"?!

I'll be one of the first to disapprove of racism when it's racism, but this is ridiculous.

@Mott

Look, I wasn't trying to make a comparison... it was a joke. I understand that watermelons are used in science class, I remember doing that myself, BUT where is the relationship between Condalizza rice, the Secretary of State of the USA and being on top of a roof with a watermelon?

Typically the example would be, Joe or Pat or Kathy or Alysha or whoever is on the roof with a watermelon. I find it interesting, possibly done subconsciously, that the teacher used such a notably black person for the example.

Disclaimer: I agree there's a sensitivity issue with most blacks. Im not a bleeding heart liberal. I just see this as being relatively blatant.

I find it interesting, possibly done subconsciously, that the teacher used such a notably black person for the example.

Did you mean "notable" black person? Because that would completely change your meaning. I don't think she's particularly "notably" black, more than any other black person.

@PuzzlesWithoutPictures

Typically the example would be, Joe or Pat or Kathy or Alysha or whoever is on the roof with a watermelon. I find it interesting, possibly done subconsciously, that the teacher used such a notably black person for the example.

Actually, what is anyone doing on a roof with a watermelon? If Joe, Pat, Kathy, or Alysha can be up on the roof with a watermelon, why can't Condoleezza Rice? Neither her public office, nor her race, should prevent her from being fair game for use in a math problem. The teacher could have George Bush up on top of the Washington Monument throwing crackers, and I'm not going to demand the teacher be "fired or disciplined," nor will I be seeking an "atonement."

Hah, that's got to be one of the best comments ever :)

I agree. That's the statement that really got me. I mean, who does this guy think he is, Jesus Christ? Going around demanding "atonement" for perceived wrongs?

But then you'd be putting KFC out of business!

Not yet. Only watermelon for now. If it works and in 30 years things look brighter, then it was the right decision. Then we move on from there. Maybe KFC, maybe pizza, etc.

This is a good point. Whether or not the professor intended the faux pas, the very idea that this should be considered a faux pas is one that perpetuates racism.

The only point that I find contention with is that George is an immensely common (if predominantly Caucasian) name, whereas I don't think I've ever heard of a Condoleezza who was not C. Rice. Even so, Rice herself was not specified, so the argument against hinges on that Condoleezza is an inherently "black" name. If that is the case, then it could just as easily be argued that the professor didn't want to name every example person Dick, Tom and Harry - there really are other names out there, and it might be that he realized this. On any standardized test, questions involving names of definite Asian and Hispanic origin appear - in the interests of being well-rounded. If Lee Fong boards a train to New York, which is 550 miles away... must we assume that this is a slight against the Chinese, who built our railroads for us?

The whole thing is pretty ridiculous. Reminds me of when the Sacramento chapter of the NAACP protested reading "To Kill a Mockingbird" in high school classes; the book, which hinges in part on the unfair lot given to blacks in the 1930s, uses the n-word, and therefore is racist - or so the argument goes. We're just way the hell too sensitive as a people.

Please explain to me why you believe that this was a racial slur.