Bush Opposes Singing Anthem in Spanish

Yea, you're right. There is no official language in the USA, but people seeking citizenship still have to pass a test that I believe is only given in English.

which means these tests are unconstitutional!!!

this president is trying hard to get back the support of his base, but by doing that he is loosing the essence of this country!!

alot of states require all documents be availible in multiple languages.
There is a reason we dont have a national language despite the fact it would make life easier and cheaper. This is america, it isnt supposed to be for just the religious, or just the english speaking or just capitalist. This country isnt supposed to belong to us. It is supposed to belong to the idea. Thats why the statue of liberty says "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.." it doesnt say but learn to speak english first.

as much as it annoys me when people dont know english, it is just a consequence of what makes this country so great. Next time you think "learn the freaken language" know there isnt one.

I guess that's the whole point.

If there's an official language, the most which can be done is to recognize a different makeup of US' society and strike the official status of the language, if that difference is considered significative. The least is to ignore all this and keep it official.

If there's no official language, what's the point of making English official now?

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if English would be obligatory around here in .pt; it's actually very useful for me. There's a side point on this: as English isn't obligatory, the people who actually speak English are good at it (we learned it because we wanted to).

The country as a whole has no official languages, but individual states are allowed to declare an official language.

From Wikipedia:

Many individual states and territories have also adopted English as their official language:

* Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming

ha the better part of that quote...america is able to take people of all walks of life...as long as they speak english here.

Part of the evangelical is injecting your faith in what you do, cant really fault the pres for that, but can fault the american people for putting such a person in the whitehouse. Not saying I am against evangelicals, I am just saying if they are true to their faith, they are probably bad for people that want to leave religion out of politics.

And believe in God.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask of people who move to the States to learn/speak English. It's part of integration and it makes it easier on both the immigrant and the US citizens. I'm an immigrant myself, and if I could only speak my own language, how could I be a productive part of American society? What job would I get? Probably not at the same skill level as I would get in my own country.

I do however think that it's bull@!$%# to say people have to learn the national anthem in English. Why should immigrants go along in American patriotism? I refuse to sing the American national anthem, just as much as I refuse to sing my own country's national anthem. Not everyone is spoonfed with hollow patriotism like Americans are.

As an immigrant, I actually do believe in keeping the America anthem in English. At the risk of being flamebait, I will say the following:

Though officially, there is "no official language," the language of the nation is indeed English. This is undeniable. Look at the numbers. It was very nearly German in our early history, and as such, a single language is very important to a nation's unity.

Though letting anyone use any language they want willy-nilly is a very democratic and "yay! freedom!" idea, the use of multiple languages within a nation only serves to drop its efficiency. If no standard form of communication is agreed upon, then information is inevitably lost or misread/heard at a greater rate without a standard language than with.

Language is a great unifying force. If two strangers speak the same language, communication is much more cordial and friendly. Every citizen naturally feels more of a bond to every other citizen if they all speak the same language. This may sound harsh, but my opinion is that if you want to be American, there are certain things you must do in order to prove that you want to be a productive member of American society, rather than just a person who wants to take advantage of America's generosity. I do not believe that it is fair to force the United States to fully comply to a group of people who:

1. Came by invitation (I'm speaking of legal immigrants here)
2. Came to reap the benefits of American society
3. Don't want to actually enter American society, but instead want American society to bow to them.

Agreed. It'd be even better if we could unify the entire world under one language, but within the country, having one official language would be better for everyone.

People who wish to join the country should be willing to do some things to prove that...entering legally, and learning a new language are, in my opinion, perfectly legitimate things to require of new citizens, for the good of *ALL* of America.

I do however think that it's bull@!$%# to say people have to learn the national anthem in English. Why should immigrants go along in American patriotism? I refuse to sing the American national anthem, just as much as I refuse to sing my own country's national anthem. Not everyone is spoonfed with hollow patriotism like Americans are.

Why should immigrants go along in American patriotism?

Are you serious? Somebody please tell me that they see something wrong here.

@ waitin - i don't sing it either, and i was born here. ;)

@ _Von_

I think what @waitin was trying to express is that patriotism should be a choice - your country shouldn't force you to be patriotic. And I would agree with that, especially in a democratic society.

I don't think he meant that immigrants should not be patriotic - but rather that they should come to be patriotic because they love their new country, and they are free to do so.

_Von— wrote:

Are you serious? Somebody please tell me that they see something wrong here.

I am serious. I'd like to know what you see wrong with it.

I think that an American should be able to choose what language they wish to speak. With that choice comes the responsibility of understanding the attendant benefits of being able to communicate effectively in English.

That starts with being able to take the citizenship test, which is in English. If the new citizen wishes to stop there, so be it. They can bear the limitations of a lack of knowledge of English brings.

However, in many major cities there are enclaves where English is not the main language spoken, so English is not necessary for survival in some cases. In Los Angeles I can drive for half an hour and pass through neighborhoods where Russian, Thai or Chinese are featured on all signboards.

Personally, I love languages, and I love the depth that people add to our society when they bring their language with them to the country. I am sure that most of them also understand that if they wish to do business with English speakers, they have to learn English.

As an interesting aside, someone I deal with for work is a Korean immigrant who speaks fluent "Spanglish" as she deals with both Latino and English speaking customers on a daily basis. I am not even sure if she knows that she is speaking a mix of the two necessarily, but I can understand her perfectly when she says something like, "OK, do you want otra?"

I am not sure if I went off on a tangent there, or even made sense, but there you go.

I don't know. Maybe because it sounds pretentious, ungrateful, selfish, and stuck up. Perhaps I just took offense to this line:

Not everyone is spoonfed with hollow patriotism like Americans are.

I got flamed the other day for "making generalizations" here on newsvine, yet nobody will say anything about this line at all.

Perhaps some people should pause and think really hard about the benefits of living in such a great country.

Perhaps we Americans should stop and think really hard about the benefits of living in other countries as well. Maybe we can use the knowledge gained from them to improve our own nation. I'd like to see free higher education here in the US, much like what's found in several European countries.

_Von— I had the same reaction as you did. Spoonfed patriotism my ass. Some of us grew up to love this country. Others moved here for whatever reason and fell in love with it.

For what it's worth - I don't sing the National Anthem - but I do stand still, stop talking, and if there is a flag handy look at it while putting my right hand over my heart when I hear it.

You don't have to be Patriotic - but you could at least be a tad bit respectful of the country you live in - particularly if you are an immigrant and CHOSE to move here. If you don't like it here, really, why come? If was just to @!$%# about our jingoism - well I'm sorry you wasted your time. If it is pursue a dream (whatever your's maybe) good luck. I hope you achieve it.

On my spoonfed comment: I can understand if you take offense to it. If I were an American, I may have had that reaction too.
But it's how I see it. Just the fact that you mention "the benefits of living in such a great country" strengthens my point.

As an American, you may not know any better (and I don't mean this in a rude way), but in comparison to the other countries I've been/lived in, patriotism has a very big place in American society and in the upbringing and kneeding of its citizens.

finalcut wrote:

If you don't like it here, really, why come? If was just to @!$%# about our jingoism - well I'm sorry you wasted your time. If it is pursue a dream (whatever your's maybe) good luck. I hope you achieve it.

Just because I criticize an aspect of the United States, doesn't mean "I don't like it here". You don't have to hate or dislike something to be able to criticize it. A melting pot will have many flavors.

sorry i guess this contemptous comment threw me off:

Not everyone is spoonfed with hollow patriotism like Americans are.

As an American, you may not know any better...

Ah so as a non-American you clearly know so much more than us stupid Americans who don't know any better. Don't take it the wrong way, but you sound like an arrogant prick, even by American standards.

As an American, you may not know any better (and I don't mean this in a rude way), but in comparison to the other countries I've been/lived in, patriotism has a very big place in American society and in the upbringing and kneeding of its citizens.

I may not know any better, but I do know that I'm definitely not going to die should I choose not to believe a particular religion. I do know that I can say just about anything I want without fear of death or bodily harm. I do know that I can go to a voting booth, and vote with hope of some sort of change. I do know that I have the opportunity to make as much (or less) money as I can, to provide as much as I can for my family, and if I feel like it, sit in my living room all night drinking beer and listening to rock n roll.

I don't think you really need statistics or research to back up the fact that there are countries where you don't have these luxuries. I may be an ignorant simpleton, but I know that I have greater opportunities here than many other people around the globe. If this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be so many people trying to get here everyday.

jgreath wrote:

Perhaps we Americans should stop and think really hard about the benefits of living in other countries as well.

I fully agree. The fact that America offers a lot of freedom and luxury doesn't mean that it's the only country where this happens or that there are no countries that can "outdo" America. I just place questionmarks by the urge of many Americans to see things black and white, as in "you live in either the USA, or you live in a country without freedom".

Ah so as a non-American you clearly know so much more than us stupid Americans who don't know any better. Don't take it the wrong way, but you sound like an arrogant prick, even by American standards.

I've never called Americans stupid. Simply because that would be an ignorant statement. I'm simply saying some Americans may not know any better, because of the way they were brought up and/or were hardly exposed to how things work in other countries.
Until I moved to the States, I didn't know a lot of things about Americans that I do know now. I simply didn't know any better.

In fact, I get angry now when I see fellow Dutchmen, who have never set foot on American soil, refer to Americans as fat, lazy, stupid and superficial. But they don't know any better.

That's what I meant.

_Von— wrote:

I don't think you really need statistics or research to back up the fact that there are countries where you don't have these luxuries. I may be an ignorant simpleton, but I know that I have greater opportunities here than many other people around the globe. If this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be so many people trying to get here everyday.

I come from a country of which the same can be said (The Netherlands). I just don't see any reason to bring it up as often as Americans do. Different culture, no patriotism.
Like I hinted at before: if I were born and raised in America, I would've probably been on your side in this discussion.

w8, I went and looked up the definition of patriotism because I thought maybe we weren't on the same page. It says:

Love of and devotion to one's country.

I can't believe that you don't love your country. Maybe you are thinking of a different word or definition? There certainly isn't anything wrong with anyone saying that they "love" their country. I suppose we could debate on what "devotion" means, but that wouldn't be any fun. :)

So, are you saying that there is "no patriotism" in The Netherlands because nobody loves it there?

My definition of patriotism is a bit different indeed, so maybe we're not on the same page after all :-)

My definition is more like the near constant *expression* of love of one's own country, through means of speech, singing and/or merchandise.

I know I'm a bit off there. The actual definition is indeed 'Love and devotion to one's country', but I don't know a better word for what I was aiming at.

The actual definition is indeed 'Love and devotion to one's country', but I don't know a better word for what I was aiming at.

Probably jingoism. From wikipedia:

Jingoism is a term describing chauvinistic patriotism, usually with a hawkish political stance. In practice, it means bullying other countries or using whatever means necessary to safeguard a country's national interests.

Probably jingoism.

Jingoism (I had never heard of that) is indeed one form. Another form is people buying Patriotism merchandise (which could be made in China, by the way) and displaying it abundantly while not looking further outside the borders than Iraq and Aruba, if you know what I mean ;-)

Now I'm understanding you. I still don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that, but it is taken a little bit to the extreme sometimes. Like those little magnets that people put on their cars saying different things like "Support the Troops." There were a lot of people making fun of those all over the Internet a while back. It was pretty funny because they were all made in China.

A lot of this came after Sept. 11Th. I even put a magnet flag on my car for a while. I think that a lot of Americans felt at that time that they were being threatened, and expressing themselves through this type of patriotism made them feel like they were doing something to show their support for our country. I'm sure that we can all understand that.

Since we are already off topic, I did spend some time in Germany last year, and if I were independently wealthy, I could probably live in Rothenburg. :)

_Von_, to give you a bit more background on why I think there's far more patriottism (expression) in the US is because in the Netherlands, we only fly the flag on certain days of the year, for special occasions, usually related to our monarchy or the liberation from the Germans in WWII.
We also don't have any billboards along the expressway reminding us that God blesses our country and that we stand united.
It's a cultural difference. As is reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. And the national anthem at almost every single sports game (afaik).

It's all stuff we don't do in my home country and I see a big contrast. Now a lot of my fellow Dutchmen would probably shrug...in fact, I know some Dutch people living in the US who don't mind joining in the patriotic expressions, but I personally think most patriotic activities and expressions are "taught behavior" (by which I don't mean to imply that the patriotic feelings Americans have aren't genuine).
You probably still won't agree with me and you don't have to, but I hope you understand a bit better where I'm coming from. There are countries where people love their country, but hardly ever express it.

Zaki - can you type a little blurb about that podcast? I don't want to open it here at work...

(music intro) The Lord God is thanked for something he would never do, it's The Onion Radio News, this is Doyle Redland reporting.

The Lord God was deeply thanked today for helping local philanderer Louis Darnel concealed an adulteress affair from his wife. A gesture that sources close to the Lord say he would never make. God spokesperson Eric Peterson says the almighty is often baffled by prayers of gratitude for unspeakable acts.

Eric Peterson: If you're breaking one of the 10 commandments, God denies any involvements...and dark deeds are Satan's jurisdiction. God is also reportedly been thanked for everything from watching an assistant manager accidentally loses his hat in the deep fryer, to getting off scot-free after burning a church.

Doyle Redland for the Onion Radio News

Bush.....and not bring his religion into it.

That just made my day :)

Clearly you are un-American. Please report to the nearest CIA front company to be transported to a small Eastern European country to be tortured. Thank you.

Clare tu non-americanus est. reporta ad companium CIAum cercaniummm,, never mind, forget the whole latin thing.

:-)

Frankly there is no way I want to hear President Bush sing the national anthem in English or in Spanish.

But I think the two deeper issues are:

1) that the translation alters the meaning of the original anthem. The song writer admits he toned down the "war references" to make the anthem more friendly sounding.

2) that the translation of a country's anthem is somewhat oxymoronic to put it succinctly. It is like buying a Hummer to distribute more "save the planet stickers." If you really are for something, if you actually believe in something then you "deliver" it in a way that doesn't counter your cause.

I agree. I think it's really cool to translate it and see how it changes the song - but I believe that the song should be kept intact. In this case, that means keeping it English - however, if it had been written in a different language, I would be just as adamant about keeping it in that language. It's about the integrity of the song as the artist intended it - not necessarily about a "national language", what have you.

while i agree with keeping it in English for official ceremony purposes... i don't agree that it needs to be kept in English because the artist wrote it that way. I love listening to foreign language translations of songs of all types. I don't see why the national anthem should be exempt for entertainment purposes... just not for official purposes.

Sorry - that was my point, too. I think translations are great - but for "official" occasions where the National Anthem is performed - keep it in English, as the composer intended.

Good point Miss Dev. I agree completely.

Would someone PLEASE sing the anthem in Klingon and post a link. I'm dying to hear that. I thought my idea for a Klingon rap group was fun, but our national anthem, that takes the cake.

If we are going by what the composer intended, then do we have to start singing the other verses?

No kidding. I have a deep voice (for a woman) and can't even sing the whole first verse without getting squeaky...

Brian - sign me up, i want to hear any song in Klingon! ;)

Collin, I agree with you.

But I do want to point out that a lot of performers change the language of their songs... however I think it is more common for a group or singer of another native language to also do an English version than it is for an English singer/group to do a different-language version.

However, it is not unheard of. One of my favorites (and i admittedly have awful taste in music) is Barbie Girl by Aqua done in German. (i enjoy that one because it's funny).

99 Red Balloons was originally 99 Luft Balon, that's the only chart topper I can think of off the top of my head.

99 Red Balloons is great :)

Don't forget about the band Rammstein: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rammstein

They have re-released #1 hits like Du Haust in english form.

The Winds of Change by The Scorpions is another;

The song "Sukiyaki" known in Japan as "Ue o muite arukō" is notable for becoming a hit song in the West both for the Japanese language version, and for versions that used the same melody, but were not direct translations of the lyrics.

Unfortuately, you can't take God out of the anthem, since Frances Scott Key really did put it in there himself (unlike the pledge of allegience debacle).

Key never intended it to be the anthem, or a song at all. I mean, who would write a song with an impossible melody with the intention of regular everyday Americans. We would be better served - and our ears would hurt less - if we changed it to God Bless America or the like.

Oh, wait, there's still God in there. Well, maybe a Britney Spears song then.

And as an English major, I don't mind the poem being translated, since we translate everything else (The Bible? Dante's Inferno? Homer? Check). But I do think it looses something in the translation, as everything does.

An interesting tidbit I heard was that the national anthem's tune is an old English drinking tune.

good point - and probably dead on.

As far as Stille Nacht is concerned, the last I checked, that is not the German national anthem. All I want to emphasize is that for many Americans the national anthem has strong symbolic and emotional importance. The same is true of the flag of the United States. Gratuitous assaults on these symbols can be expected to engender hostility.

Agreed. Has there been a "gratuitous assault," or did somebody just translate and perform the song in another language? If I translate the word "wintermute1" into French and then say it out loud, would you consider that to be a "gratuitous assault" on your nickname?

Don't think I'm not being serious here. If you really feel that the act of translating a song into a different language is a "gratuitous assault," I don't think you're being very logical. Again - the song was translated. It wasn't stolen, it wasn't ridiculed, it wasn't made fun of, it was translated. Translated.

Not to be redundant, but many English speaking religious people recite the Lord's prayer in English. It's not a gratuitous assault on God, on Christianity, or on any church, even though it is considered to be a "symbol" of all of those entities. It is simply a translation.

As for the "gratuitous assault" comment, I was trying to communicate how *some* people feel about the sanctity of English in this country. I am not against the translation of the national anthem. I guess I am just predicting that, in the current climate of debate on illegal immigration, it is predictable that some sort of backlash will occur.

I think that the boycott on Monday, together with the hysterics over English in the national anthem, are both symptoms of a worsening political atmosphere. Immigration reform is hard enough without troublemakers on any of the respective "sides" poking their opponents in the eye.

While I don't think the article mentions the National Anthem in regards to official ceremonies - that is what I took from the inference of the President even speaking about it. I think that is why so many people on here have mentioned the official -vs- casual usage of the Anthem.

While I don't think the article mentions the National Anthem in regards to official ceremonies - that is what I took from the inference of the President even speaking about it. I think that is why so many people on here have mentioned the official -vs- casual usage of the Anthem.

So, can we all agree, then, that casual use of the song in its translated form is not really a big deal, and that until someone proposes either changing over to the Spanish version or using the Spanish version in an official manner, this entire argument is a smokescreen which only serves to divert attention from actual problems that face this country?

Just so you know, the "sing it in English" comment was actually an answer to a question at a press conferrence. A press conferrence, I might add, that was mostly about other topics and this was out of left field when the press guy asked the question to him.

I think it's the rewriting that bothers people the most.

You wouldn't translate the Bible from Latin to English and then change it. If it's a translation, it should be a direct translation. If you change what it means, than it's not the original anymore, and it's more like cross-language plagerism.

Translate it into as many language as you want, but the National Anthem should still mean and say the exact same thing, no matter the language.

Wow this comment is full of contradictions as I see them.

We come here seeking an opportunity to better our family's lives.

-vs-

Living in my home country is not that bad, it actually probably is better than living in America, but the economy is shambles, to the point that you will work your whole life and achieve practically nothing.

So are you here because it is better - or because it was better there? If it was so good there, what could you possibly be getting out of coming here? I mean if it is better there how can you possibly better your family's lives here?

We pay taxes, fight your wars and man your industry just like everyone else does.

This is funny. Legal immigrants pay taxes as do some illegals. However, there are plenty of illegal immigrants that don't; if they all did pay taxes people wouldn't care as much that they were getting government services.

Some of you VOLUNTEER to join the military. You aren't forced to fight in "our wars" the immigrants who volunteer made it their war too. If they didn't think they would have to fight a war then they shouldn't have joined the Military.

I bet most "Americans" don't even understand half of it themselves along with everything else they are ignorant on.

Wow, talk about the Pot calling the kettle black. you don't know most American's and thus you are ignorant about most of them. You know some - but of the 300+ million you don't know many. Try not to be so damn superior and hateful.

Thanks for making all immigrants sound like gold-diggers!

Some immigrants find the values and spirit of opportunity in this country worth defending. If all we are is "consumers" rather than CITIZENS, you might have a point. When I naturalized it meant a deep commitment to the country where I now live. I am sorry that it was a simple economic transaction for you.

Don't assume that everyone else's moral commitments to a new life can be reduced to material advantage alone - as apparently are yours.

No people immigrate for different reasons. At this point in time their is no dictatorship in my country just an unstable economic situation. So the only real reason to immigrate right now is to either be with other family members or try to make some money in the U.S. Other immigrants might come to the U.S. to escape political oppression, but that again isn't everybody.

Thanks for making all immigrants sound like gold-diggers!

If looking for a better quality of life is your standard for gold-digging so be it.

Wow, talk about the Pot calling the kettle black. you don't know most American's and thus you are ignorant about most of them. You know some - but of the 300+ million you don't know many. Try not to be so damn superior and hateful.

Fact is most of the world is ignorant as far as anyone is concerned. America on the other hand is ignorant and self-centered most of the time. Like someone else said most Americans see the world as America on one side and everything else on the other.

[QUOTE]"NEWSMAX --Americans apparently know more about "The Simpsons" than they do about the First Amendment.

Only one in four Americans can name more than one of the five freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment (freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly and petition for redress of grievances.) But more than half can name at least two members of the cartoon family, according to a survey.

The study by the new McCormick Tribune Freedom Museum found that 22 percent of Americans could name all five Simpson family members, compared with just one in 1,000 people who could name all five First Amendment freedoms.

Joe Madeira, director of exhibitions at the museum, said he was surprised by the results.

"Part of the survey really shows there are misconceptions, and part of our mission is to clear up these misconceptions," said Madeira, whose museum will be dedicated to helping visitors understand the First Amendment when it opens in April. "It means we have our job cut out for us."

The survey found more people could name the three "American Idol" judges than identify three First Amendment rights. They were also more likely to remember popular advertising slogans.

It also showed that people misidentified First Amendment rights. About one in five people thought the right to own a pet was protected, and 38 percent said they believed the right against self-incrimination contained in the Fifth Amendment was a First Amendment right, the survey found.

The telephone survey of 1,000 adults was conducted Jan. 20-22 by the research firm Synovate and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points." (NewsMax.com 3/1/06)[/QUOTE]

Whatever America may be, it should not feel obligate to restructure its society and culture - not to mention its most important national symbols - to fit the likes of those who are only in it for the money.

As the debate here is on whether the national anthem should be predominantly in English - I think that you have made the point.

elsupermag I'm sorry life sucked so bad for you in the Dominican that you had to come somewhere where you clearly despise the people who call it home. Funny you chose to live amidst ignorance instead of poverty. As much as you seem to want to belittle ignorance, clearly you prefer it over poverty.

Wasn't my choice at all, heh. Been living in the U.S. almost all my life. I go to visit every 2 years or so, and it's two different worlds. Even without electricity hal.f the time, no access to the internet, mud when it rains, I enjoy myself just being around my friends and family members.The hospitality and feeling of community in D.R. is something I never experienced over here.

elsupermang

You complain about not having power the whole time, no internet and mud when rains? Are you really that ignorant to what is going on to the rest of the world? You or your country people should be happy that your children are not dying by the hour like what is going on in Darfur and some of the African countries. You have food and shelter. There are people who live under palm leaves in some countries. There are people who walk few hundred miles just to get water (not food) So please do not complain about not having internet or power the whole time. You make yourself sound very ignorant and silly. Be grateful not arrogant.

And sorry if you feel you know more than Americans, which makes me wonder why the heck are you here? The report that you quoted failed to mention all the medical discovery that Americans have discovered. They failed to mentioned all the electronic discovery. The internet you cant live with is the product of America. I can list a million things that came from America. So the next time before you say "I bet most "Americans" don't even understand half of it themselves along with everything else they are ignorant on." or quote a one-sided article, I hope you use your intelligence first before typing.

@ elsupermang:

In your last comment, you've made two things clear to me, which I really hope was not your intention.

1. You had no choice coming here, and you really darn-tootin' wish you could just go back.
2. Those Americans are so ignorant about the world that they don't know of the hardship of having no Internet and bad weather (OMG!), so why can't they just accept that they've got it good, and just pander to us poor immigrants who wanna take advantage of American prosperity but stay wholly Dominican?

Well, let's see, we let you in (US immigration laws are more open than much of Europe's), we're not kicking out all the illegals, much of California is already bilingual, south Florida is about the same, our official papers are printed in a whole skew of languages, we sorta wrote NAFTA, you're covered under the Bill of Rights, we've got electricity and Internet aplenty (the proliferation of which are based on mainly American innovation), and we have antidiscrimination legislation based on race, gender, etc.

Hmmm, all you're missing is that sense of community. Oh yeah, there was that part about CA and FL. I forgot to add that every major American urban center has ethnocentric neighborhoods galore. So, your only real complaint is that your personal friends and family aren't here? Get to work on that, then. It's America! If you can come, work to get them to come. Build yourself that new sense of community in a place with electricity and Internet. Bring them over. That's what my father did. he did it not because of electricity and Internet either, it because of this thing called the Cultural Revolution. Maybe you, in all your worldly knowledge, have heard of it.

I'm pretty darn proud of my birth country and ethnic homeland, China. But, just because I feel a strong connection to that place and probably less of an emotional connection to the US doesn't mean I want the US to become more Chinese, or think "This place is richer. Lemme just make some bucks off of it and skip out!" Immigrating to this country meant freedoms that I would not have had in China. The very fact that you can say the things you are saying right now attest to the fact that America gives you freedoms few other countries give. Don't look at America as a cash cow while taking its culture and people for granted (are the immigrants ignorant, too? They're American, as well.). You can't have your cake, eat it, then put it on eBay, too.

Seriously, stop playing the "poor little persecuted immigrant" card when it's your choice to live here (how is not your choice?). If you can go back and visit, that means there are no legal barriers to staying back there. On the contrary, there are often strict laws against immigrating to America for longer than you're supposed to. I don't think China's too bad about this, but the "your visa expired, you've gotta go back, kid" situation comes up all the time.

P.S. - Use XHTML tags, not bbForum tags. It's < blockquote > in this neighborhood. Or there's a little button above the comment text box you can use.

I never said I missed internet or electricity when i was in D.R. In fact using a computer was almost alien to me when i come back. I never cried foul about living here, just saying I like it alot more over in D.R. especially since I am with my people and family.

Yes americans are generally ignorant including immigrants. I myself am ignorant in some things just like everyone is. My whole point is that we don't owe America anything, America doesn't give you a free ticket to anything you gotta work for it.

Once again, if you like it a lot more over in DR, why did you come here again? Oh yes, because you could make a much better living, which in your own personal hierarchy, is a great benefit which outweighs not being with your family. Thus, this opportunity to make much more money, have a better standard of living, etc. is actually better than spending a lot more time with your family. Thus, unless you're masochistic, you have come to the US because it was, all things considered, better than staying in DR. If you really do like it a lot better over in DR, all things considered, why not go back?

America doesn't hand you prosperity on a silver platter. But, it does give you the opportunity to do much more than what you could accomplish in DR. You implied that yourself. If you're given the chance to win $1 million, but you had to win a competition of skill, you wouldn't be thankful at all that you were given that chance? Even as a capitalist and a pseudo-materialist, I find that rather disrespectful.

You really just think you need not be thankful to America for anything because there's no free lunch? Wow. You're apparently a paragon of "ignorant americans" if you take America for granted.

Exactly.

Although I am beginning to think this is fast becoming a new song written in Spanish that sounds patriotic. Good for him and his profits, it's no American anthem.

Once they collectively learn to speak English on a practical level, I'll accept their changing of our own language's symbols.

Yeah, I'm sure your life is dramatically different because of latin immigrants. How are Americans being held hostage? How has your life or the lives of any American been significantly changed by these people?

It's not "what do we do" it's "how do we get our politicians to focus on real problems"