Enron Founder Kenneth Lay Dies at Age 64

I'll pray for the families whose futures he destroyed...

Regardless of the life he lived, he did leave behind a family, people whom loved him, regardless of any sins he may have committed, his family still needs support. You denying that to them makes you no better than whatever a man you took him to be.

would you pray for the family of the Anti-Christ Andrew? I am not saying Ken Lay is one in any way shape or form, but come on. Some people are not worth my sympathy.

You denying that to them makes you no better than whatever a man you took him to be.

Don't you mean the man he was convicted guilty to be? I'll give my regards as we burn eternally together in the sulphury pits of Hell...

Yes, I would pray for the family of the anti-christ. He would be the evil one, not his family. He lived a life and left family behind, of course they mourn him, how ridiculous.

Andrew, I guess I am not as good a Christian as you.

This is a strange and unnerving thread of comments.

I am not a Christian, nor do I consider myself a particularly sensitive person...but the guy DID leave behind loved ones. It really doesn't matter what he did in his life, if someone misses him when he's gone, they deserve a little sympathy...

Isn't that just a basic part of being human?

It really doesn't matter what he did in his life, if someone misses him when he's gone, they deserve a little sympathy...

There are people all over this planet dying right now and leaving friends, families and loved-ones behind. Every day you can find stories about the frailty of life. Tragedy happens all the time and only a very vain man can claim he cares about every single form and instance.

Are passing asides of "Such a pity" to strangers and co-workers every time something awful happens enough to prove intent of compassion? If not, how many prayers am I supposed to say when I go to bed at night? How many more at church Sunday morning? Can I just say "God Bless Everything?"

I cannot feel for those who are not human.

I believe his wife was under investigation for insider trading after it was found she dumped a ton of Enron stock before they went under.

She's also the woman who set up a huge PR stunt selling her "family treasures" in order to garner sympathy for the poor, poor, poverty-ridden Lay family. Classy, isn't it? I'm sure the workers who her husband robbed of their dreams really felt bad for her plight.

It literally made me sick to my stomach.

Really, if you don't think members of at least his immediate family, wife and grown children, knew perfectly well what was going on, then I have a great deal on a bridge you might be interested in. And then they just sat by as their greed destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of employees, because hey, those workers are just worthless peons, right? Let them eat cake.

These people are sick. I have no sympathy for Lay and his ilk at all. They are monsters, and they the perfect representative of the selfish, inhumane greed that is slowly destroying the country that I love. Good riddance.

Obleo,

We cannot intend to be compassionate. We are either compassionate or not.

Compassion shows in our words and actions. A compassionate individual would care for Kenneth Lay's family and would realize they are also his victims (except those who were complicit in his crimes). Truly compassionate individuals also care for the perpetrators.

Tragedy happens all the time and only a very vain man can claim he cares about every single form and instance.

I agree, because no one will ever know about every single form and instance. But this is a strawman.

Compassion is about what you say, do, and feel when you do know. Compassion might be shown by verbal support, silence, an intervention, a silent prayer, frank advice, or many different ways. Compassion is about the easing of suffering.

Compassion is not fundamentally limited. We limit our compassion by choice. You can say "God bless everything", but compassion is about whether you actually mean it. In this case, if you are the praying type, you can pray, "God bless everyone involved in these terrible events." You can even pray with no words at all if you believe your deity of choice understands your thoughts and feelings.

Compassion is not about proving anything. However, you can, and have, shown a lack of compassion for Lay's family. You seem to blame them for Lay's actions. You seem to be perfectly fine with that, so I'm not sure why you are arguing. You seem to be wanting to convince people that Lay's family don't deserve sympathy. Good luck with that.

One could argue that unless they read this thread, and are aware of any sympathy, or lack thereof, that nothing any of you do with regards to his death has any impact, or merits even discussing.

It seems to me that most of the time "I feel for his family"-type comments are simply the kinds of things we've gotten ingrained into our heads to say, regardless of whether we mean it, just so we don't feel bad for thinking poorly of him.

All statements regarding not having sympathy for this man's family are ridiculous and those making those statements ought to be ashamed. I can understand the lack of sympathy for the man, himself, but extending your hatred (and lack of human feeling) to his family is nothing short of deplorable!

Ken Lay was one of the people most responsible for the destruction of many peoples' futures, and the public should not celebrate his life. He was, however, a (albeit bad) human being with a family. They (despite the hateful wishes of some) deserve the right to celebrate his life and mourn their loss. While we need not share in their mourning, it is inhumane to heap scorn on his family.

Stacy,

The ideas you point out just illustrate the fact that he and his family need our prayers even more.

"And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 5:31-32

Anyways, Ken is dead and can't be kicked around by this world anymore. Weather or not you get wood by dancing on his grave doesn't really matter to him anymore, just reflects your character.

Is it right to celebrate death? Even of an immoral man?

IMHO no, it isn't.

RIP Ken, and good luck. You'll probably need it.

Who is celebrating his death? I think everyone here is just lacking in sympathy. his death does not effect me emotionally in any way... I do not believe that constitutes dancing.

Compassion is not about proving anything. However, you can, and have, shown a lack of compassion for Lay's family. You seem to blame them for Lay's actions. You seem to be perfectly fine with that, so I'm not sure why you are arguing. You seem to be wanting to convince people that Lay's family don't deserve sympathy. Good luck with that.

I guess I'm not proud enough to believe that five seconds spent in consideration of random loss before moving on to the next woe constitutes anything more than merely going through the motions. I'd thought I had made this point as subtle as a sledgehammer blow.

I won't pretend to dole out single-serving portions of care for every person God calls home. Isn't this supposed to be a joyous occasion? What we're all supposed to strive for? Isn't the loss felt by his family selfish in light of the fact that he dwells in the kingdom of God now? Instead, I'm going to focus my attentions on real matters deserving the compassion of our species. Matters that could be avoided entirely if people felt true compassion and not merely paid it lip service.

Compassion isn't neccessarily about the one to which compassion is being shown, but the one showing the compassion. Take that as you will.

Obleo,

When someone says, "my prayers go out to his family", what criteria do you use to determine whether it is lip service or not? Some people give lip service to compassion. How do you know who? In the end does it even matter? Who are they cheating but themselves?

True compassion lacks judgement. Whether his family is selfish or not, if they suffer and you are truly compassionate, you will desire to relieve their suffering. Otherwise, what you really seek is to punish and reward behaviors and associations based on your own criteria and assumptions.

Wow, absolutely amazing...

His widow is out of the country and no plans to return for his funeral
he is schedualed to be cremated tomorrow. (from another forrum i dont have cited evidence)
With a lot of money, big connections.. I can easily see how faking your death could be accomplished.
Now if skilling dies next week we will have a bonified conspiracy.

The punk is going to get away!

And he would've gotten away it with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling Feds...

As for whether he's actually dead, I'll wait for some sort of real confirmation, rather than a statement from his spokesperson. I mean, what better way to get out of life imprisonment than to fake your own death? He certainly has the means to pull a stunt like that off.

He has no means at all. His defense cost him, and his family, more than their net worth. If he were going to fake his death, he would have done it before spending a fortune on his defense.

Let the man rest. Save your bile for digesting your next meal.

He has no means at all. His defense cost him, and his family, more than their net worth

lay claimed to be 250g in debt and than the prosecutors found 6.3 million in assets. Ken lay claimed he left it out as it didnt pertain to the trial and that his claim of being 250k in debt was still valid as the money wasnt availible to him yet.
The government sought 183 million from the pair:

"Scattered millions like that are part of the reason the government is seeking such a large amount from Lay and Skilling: The amount will cover any assets prosecutors may discover in the future"

lay was worth .5 billion dollars at one time
I dont think i could lose 1/2 billion dollars to go 250k in debt.. i just dont buy it.

Yeah, the Sneaky-snake did get off quite well when reviewing his actions.

Thousands of families were destroyed (including his own) and now we are just supposed to forget about it because the ring leader is gone...

Quite tragic no matter who you look at it.

Yeah sure it is tragic, but it is also quite convenient. And it's not like he was a real young guy, he lived a pretty full life. And I'm sure has had it better than most.

I'm not thinking there's a conspiracy or anything. I did read Grisham's 'The Partner' recently. If there were any unexplained car crashes in Texas I'll be a little suspicious. ;)

Indeed proof we all have Karma.

It's too bad that "Kenny Boy" didn't listen to Carson Daly sooner. He might have been able to avoid this.

The AP added a paragraph to an article they wrote earlier. it is common.

I thought that sentence seem a bit off track.

I'm just curious to see if the President decides to go to the funeral.

They were friends and the Mr. Bush is known for his loyalty (giving and receiving of such), but the P.R. would be worse than if he threw-up on the Japanese Prime Minister or admitting to making a map of Hawaii on an interns blue dress.

i agree-

the real pity is that he spent zero time as someones beeotch in the pen.

Yeah, how dare the feds let him die! They knew this would happen—obviously they don't care about white-collar crime! That they would prosecute and convict this guy and then let him go and have a heart attack like that, truly shows what a sad state our justice system is in.

And it would be much more fair to all those teenagers if they spent the same 6 years trying and convicting each of them before sending them to jail. I'm sure they'd love putting their lives on hold to go through a long investigation, criminal trial and sentencing process.

"$100 million in personal debt"

I guess being in debt when you are rich is different than being in debt or even "in the black" if you are poor.

De mortuis nil nisi bonum.

..so this is what we have shrunk to...is this being enlightened,progressive..or just plain mean....))))))))))))-;}

Oh so somehow Bush is involved now?

I don't think he is. I think Ken Lay is really dead, I was just pointing out I wouldn't put it past George Bush to help him out.

Having said that, I also dont agree with dancing on his grave. Everyone on this earth is a sinner, in one way or another. Ken lay was a bad man, but so are we all. If his family cant mourn his death, then surely no one can mourn the death of a loved one. I dont believe in much of the Bible, but I do like this one verse that is very pertinent. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God."