Landis Denies Cheating to Win Tour

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{"commentId":223079,"authorDomain":"bigkoi"}

I just read an article on NewsVine that said that said it was an unnamed cyclist and it did not appear to be a U.S. cyclist. What is the real story?

_news/2006/07/27/301461-tour-cyclist-tests-positive-for-doping

{"commentId":223079,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"bigkoi"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:26 AM EDT
{"commentId":223093,"authorDomain":"bigkoi"}

It's official. The BBC is reporting that Landis failed the drug test as well. It is known that Landis was taking cortisone shots for his arthritic hip. Is this test a false positive from the cortisone or was he really doping?

{"commentId":223093,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"bigkoi"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:33 AM EDT
{"commentId":223166,"authorDomain":"roan"}
Is this test a false positive from the cortisone or was he really doping

Although cortisone is a steroid, it does not affect the test/epitest ratio, which is the test he failed.

{"commentId":223166,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:11 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":223109,"authorDomain":"nickybatts"}
Nicholas BattagliaDeleted
{"commentId":223179,"authorDomain":"morf"}

This wont be confirmes until they test his b-sample. Many times these testosterone tests come back as clean the second time.

{"commentId":223179,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"morf"}
    Reply#3 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:15 AM EDT
    {"commentId":223212,"authorDomain":"timlarsen"}

    I just don't understand, if he did it, why? You train so hard throughout the year, and for what? To possibly be the laughing stock of the world and lose your career? Doesn't make much sense to me.

    {"commentId":223212,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"timlarsen"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#4 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:28 AM EDT
    {"commentId":223296,"authorDomain":"roan"}

    It is the nature of the sport. Athletes at this level are not injecting themselves in secret. They are working with doctors to design and monitor their drug regimens to avoid detection. Before the rhEPO test most if not all were using it, now they have gone back to traditional blood-doping methods. The doctors know how the tests work, and design regimens to avoid detection.

    For example, WADA defines a test/epitest ratio of greater than 4:1 as a positive, doctors and athletes work to increase both as high as possible and as close to the 4:1 ratio as possible to avoid detection.

    {"commentId":223296,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
    • 4 votes
    #4.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:29 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223319,"authorDomain":"vincec"}

    Talk about cynicism! Do you really believe that ALL cyclists are doping?

    {"commentId":223319,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"vincec"}
    • 1 vote
    #4.2 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:45 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223561,"authorDomain":"roan"}

    I am not cynical at all Vince, and I do not believe that all cyclists are doping. However I do understand the science behind performance enhancing drugs and the tests, and am not naive enough to believe that the only dopers are the ones who are caught.

    {"commentId":223561,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
    • 3 votes
    #4.3 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:16 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":223273,"authorDomain":"theangle"}

    The fishiest thing at this point, to me, is that as race leader Landis must've been tested before and after the positive test. Why haven't other results come back positive?

    Also - why testosterone? It builds muscle over a period of weeks, but unless I've misread something, it doesn't function as a stimulant, increasing output for just a single day.

    Lastly, testosterone isn't cleared out quickly by the system, which clearly Landis and co. would have known. So it looks like Landis is being accused of taking a banned substance that wouldn't directly improve his performance, and that he'd probably be caught for using. Sounds like a good idea to me...

    {"commentId":223273,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"theangle"}
    • 5 votes
    Reply#5 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:12 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223726,"authorDomain":"roan"}
    The fishiest thing at this point, to me, is that as race leader Landis must've been tested before and after the positive test. Why haven't other results come back positive?

    Yes, Landis was tested several time during the race. See my explanation of drug regimens above for how a single positive is possible. This is also one of the reasons why they conduct several tests during the race.


    Also - why testosterone? It builds muscle over a period of weeks, but unless I've misread something, it doesn't function as a stimulant, increasing output for just a single day.

    Correct, but a cyclist would not be interested in the muscle building capability. Elevated level of free testosterone would allow an athlete to work harder and recover faster


    Lastly, testosterone isn't cleared out quickly by the system, which clearly Landis and co. would have known. So it looks like Landis is being accused of taking a banned substance that wouldn't directly improve his performance, and that he'd probably be caught for using. Sounds like a good idea to me...

    Not entirely correct, I think you may be confusing active half-life with release time. Plain testosterone is cleared from the body very rapidly, well with a 24 hour time frame. Testosterone with an ester is released slowly, making free testosterone available anywhere from 1 to 14 days.

    {"commentId":223726,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
    • 5 votes
    #5.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:31 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223876,"authorDomain":"theangle"}

    All that being the case, it seems like the take-away from this is that yes, Landis tested positive, and the question then is whether or not having a test/epitest ratio of 4.5:1 when most of the rest of the field would test at 3.5:1 constitutes 'cheating'. If on has to ante up for a competitive tour by doping to the maximum "allowable" levels, then that should be the media's focus. I'd love to see testosterone:epitestosterone tests for the other tested riders in the tour. That'd make it much easier to decide how to feel about this whole thing.

    {"commentId":223876,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"theangle"}
    • 2 votes
    #5.2 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:05 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":223275,"authorDomain":"media"}

    I don't think anything could be worse for the Tour's image than to have the maillot jaune, a guy who has never, that I'm aware of, even had whispers of doping, get caught after the fact. Operation Puerto was a black eye, but this is an absolute dagger, if the B test supports it.

    {"commentId":223275,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"media"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:13 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223375,"authorDomain":"sheil"}

    I thought all this American drug testing thing was done and over with when Lance retired. I guess it's just getting started...

    Lloyd really proved something big - that Americans weren't just riding on Lance to win the Tour de France - when he won the event last week. Seeing that he failed this drug test is more disappointing than anything else really.

    {"commentId":223375,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"sheil"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:05 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223447,"authorDomain":"fasteddie"}

    lets not forget people that this test result comes in the wake of his "magical" stage 17 ride.

    {"commentId":223447,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"fasteddie"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#8 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:32 PM EDT
    {"commentId":223743,"authorDomain":"tyhatch"}

    And the 8th year an American has won it... Part of me feels like it's a political move, and then part of me feels like it isn't. Either way, it's sad that it's happening.

    {"commentId":223743,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"tyhatch"}
    • 1 vote
    #8.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:41 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":223788,"authorDomain":"vincec"}

    I believe that the top 3 finishers of each stage as well as the race leader and the points and mountain leaders are tested each day. All the riders know this. Why would he take something the day before he plans to go out and win the stage? He would have known he would be tested. Something isn't adding up here.

    {"commentId":223788,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"vincec"}
      Reply#9 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:10 PM EDT
      {"commentId":223836,"authorDomain":"roan"}

      Vince, by the same logic, it would hardly ever add up when an athlete tests positive.

      I am not saying that Landis is guilty, just that some of the reasons being presented as to why he didn't or couldn't dope, just are not based on logic or reality.

      If Landis does test positive, it will be because he did dope and his doctor was just unable to keep his ratio below the threshold for a positive result. The WADA has also just recently lowered the threshold from 6 to 4, due to the fact that almost everyone they were testing was falling just below 6. This was not a coincidence. Last year, WADA had more positive test results from cycling than from any other sport.

      {"commentId":223836,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
      • 2 votes
      #9.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:38 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":223831,"authorDomain":"rockman"}

      I would trust Landis before I would trust the French. The way they treated Lance Armstrong makes everything they say sound suspicious.

      {"commentId":223831,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"rockman"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#10 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:34 PM EDT
      {"commentId":223843,"authorDomain":"roan"}

      Personally, as much as I disagree with the WADA, I would trust them before I trust an athlete. This has nothing to do with the French.

      {"commentId":223843,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
      • 2 votes
      #10.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:42 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":223839,"authorDomain":"fasteddie"}

      VinceC,

      I think that most people doping also believe that they can beat the tests. understanding how you can be the tests has become part of the doping regimen for most of these guys.

      {"commentId":223839,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"fasteddie"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#11 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:41 PM EDT
      {"commentId":223884,"authorDomain":"theangle"}

      Right, but how many people are beating the tests? Is this limited to a handful of guys in the peloton, or are we talking about a handful of guys in the peloton who aren't doping? It'd be interesting to see some data from a larger-scale study of hormone and hematocrit levels of a large number of cyclists throughout the season, and ideally even from before and after a professional cycling career begins.

      {"commentId":223884,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"theangle"}
      • 1 vote
      #11.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:08 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":223907,"authorDomain":"roan"}

      Anyone who is interested in doping and cycling should check the Marco Pantani and Jesús Manzano stories.

      {"commentId":223907,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#12 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:20 PM EDT
      {"commentId":223966,"authorDomain":"coda"}

      I agree, but for the sake of fairness one should also read Tyler Hamilton's perspective on these issues at www.tylerhamilton.com. I think it's possible there is a great deal of truth to both sides of the story.

      {"commentId":223966,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"coda"}
        #12.1 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:17 PM EDT
        {"commentId":223990,"authorDomain":"roan"}

        There is nothing about Tyler Hamilton's story that contradicts the others. His story involves the flawed HBTT test, which is one of the reasons I do not like the way WADA operates.

        However, if the test was as flawed as Hamilton attempts to claim, one would expect a slew of positives.

        {"commentId":223990,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"roan"}
          #12.2 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:44 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":223914,"authorDomain":"Ortuid"}

          It's a shame.

          {"commentId":223914,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"Ortuid"}
          • 1 vote
          Reply#13 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:24 PM EDT
          {"commentId":224096,"authorDomain":"reiff"}

          Why is it just coming out now? If it was stage 17, I thought they tested it before the next stage and threw out any cyclists who tested positive. Of course, that is why they have the B sample, just in case.. So I guess they would have to let him keep racing--in lieu of mistakes..
          Anyway, just thinking out loud.. I sure hope he gets clean results the second time around... I hate to see such a sport go down the tube with doping...

          {"commentId":224096,"threadId":"23037","contentId":"302438","authorDomain":"reiff"}
            Reply#14 - Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:48 PM EDT
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