34 Youths Among 56 Dead in Israeli Strike

It isn't indiscriminate bombing. Hezbollah dresses like citizens, shoots out of civilian areas, and thus, when Israel needs to eliminate their threat, they kill them, many of whom get reported as civilians. I almost cried when I saw the picture of the rescue worker holding the child; and I am a Jew that supports Israel's right to defend herself. The fundamentals of this situation lie in one sides inability to accept the other's right to exist on a moral and existential level. Jews want peace and survival, but Muslim leaders ask for they people to get rid of Jews. The frightening thing is that these leaders have called for destruction of other people, including Christians and Buddhists and anyone who isn't Muslim; yet only the Jews are responsible to fight for the right of the rest of the world to practice their personal religions.
The longer Israel waits to eliminate the threat of Hezbollah, the greater they will grow in numbers within civilian populations, and thus, when Hezbollah strikes again, you can guarantee that there will be greater civilian innocent deaths as compared to the events of today.

The fundamentals of this situation lie in one sides inability to accept the other's right to exist on a moral and existential level.

Then the real challenge is changing their hearts and isolating both sides until such radical change is made with their beliefs. Cutting off limbs will no more stop people from doing what is wrong, then blowing them up will make them peaceful. Exterminating people that want to kill us, makes us more like them than we would ever want to be.

Obviously a lot of people missed the sarcasm in my comment to have it collapsed.

Not a proper analogy. The bank robber is not a threat to anyone other than the hostages and the shareholders of the bank. In this case, the "bank robber" has been firing rockets and missiles at the surrounding neighborhoods with the intentions of killing and injuring the residents there.

Ok, so the bank robber has hostages AND they're firing into the street occasionally hitting someone, so now it's ok to bomb the bank?

The bank robber is first and foremost firing into the street, the secondary property he has is that the people around him are hostages. Ie. Hezbollah(Aka Syria, Iran) is attacking Israel and American targets on a regular basis, and they have created a stronghold (hostage situation) within Lebanon.

Israel is doing what the U.N. is not powerful enough to do, and that is to bring evil to justice, for the sake of the hundreds and thousands of lives that will be saved later because of todays actions.

perpetrators of the worst atrocities throughout history have always claimed to be acting in the name of justice against "evil". hezbollah doubtless also claim that they are the good against the evil. this is nonsense in all cases - couching the debate in these terms is disingenuous

Might be worth considering the report of a dead Canadian stationed at the UN Post in Lebanon that was struck by the Israelis. He had been detailing the Hezbollah tactics for days before he was unfortunately killed.

CNN is reporting that Israel admits the bombing was a mistake.

The fact that the IDF response is "official" does not make it unbiased. Quite the contrary. It is no more an objective account than would be the "official" Hezbollah response. I believe it is important to recognise obvious propaganda for what it is and that a willingness on all sides to admit wrongs would help solve this crisis. For a depressing insight into just how far the UK and US media swallow "official" lines, check out www.media-lens.org

correction www.medialens.org (no hyphen)

If I wanted to know the truth of this situation, going to an Official IDF report would be about as useless as going to an Official Hizbollah report. Yaakov, wake up!

To be fair to Yaakov, he's linking some extra information - with its source clearly labelled. It's up to the reader to decide its veracity.

So right fellow Gunner. I go to bed every night with that fear. The fear that one part of the world will not know peace in my children or grandchildren's lifetime.

Yes, it's all Kofi Annan's fault. He's been raining bombs on innocent children. Fire him!!

What is the UN for? It's a very good question. Why can't the UN protect civillians in a war zone?

Here's the answer: The UN is hobbled by the fact that it is ruled by the rich and powerful nations. It can't even put pen to paper and verbally condemn Israel for the deaths of these women and children because that propsal is vetoed in the security council by only one vote: the Americans.

It's the same vote that always vetoes any move by the UN to criticise Israel. The US constantly criticises the UN for being ineffective, but then uses its power of veto to stop it doing anything constructive. It's like shackling someone's ankles and then criticising them for being unable to walk.

Children shouldn't be singled out. The adults' lives are just as precious. Children, men and women.

Sigh...those innocent people...

Robbie - multiply that number by ten and that's how many Israel has killed.

But neither will the killing stop until both sides stop the eye for an eye mindset (or in the case of Isreal the 20 eyes for one eye mindset!). Hezbullah does not exist in a vaccuum - it is able to recruit as a response to the past. Isreal needs to act as the powerful state it is and show some restraint. All Isreal is doing is acting as a recruiting agent for every extremist group in the area.

What it should have done is quietly sent commando troops to infiltrate the area and take out the actual perpetrators, not blanket bomb an entire area on the basis they might get those responsible (but if not, who cares, they are only Arabs). But then that wouldn't satisfy those in Isreal who seem to want revenge at any price.

As for calls for the UN to get in there and do something - that shows an ignorance of what the UN can do. It is not there to act until there is a ceasefire - it provides peace keepers, not war mongers. And look what happens when it is there - Isreal bombs them and kills them.

Stop providing Isreal with arms, America, and then we'll see how soon they agree to a ceasefire.

they are trying to severely cripple hezbollah's military infrastructure in southern lebanon by killing as many hezbollah fighters as they can, destroying as many military assets as they can (guns, ammo, rockets), and blockading syria from resupplying them after these assets are destroyed. after this stage is accomplished they will withdraw from the area, cease their air campagin, and allow international peacekeeping forces coupled with lebanese regular army soldiers, back into southern lebanon to ensure that hezbollah does not reconstitute itself along the border.

simple.

Nothing about this has an easy answer. Most of the solution depends on the perspective and morals of the parties involved.

I feel exactly like you do. I only have one child, a son.

I will do my best to teach my son that fighting is not the ONLY answer, but that at times it is unavoidable. That if a fight ABSOLUTELY has to happen, do not fight to kill, but fight to inhibit. Only use enough force to make sure they stop fighting.

I see images of these children being pulled from rubble, and I want to cry... I really do. I don't see a nationality of these children, I just see a child, dead. I think of my own son and wonder how I'd feel if it was my son pulled from this destruction, and I become enraged. A hollow husk filled with nothing other than rage - I truly feel that red would be the only color I would ever see again, until I was killed. It is something hard to teach against if you understand that if in the same situation you'd commit the same actions as what we see happening.

I can't sit and say who is right, or more right, or even less wrong... I can only say that both are wrong, but it will always lead back to "who started it?". Then I wonder does it really matter? Yes, to a degree it does matter. How do you stop someone who is bent on killing you or displacing you? If diplomacy has failed many times and you receive little support from those around you, how exactly do you stop from fighting? Everything has a limit and in this case I wonder if that limit has not been exceeded to a point of no return. Should the fighting end? In the manner it happens, without a doubt.

I find myself compelled to hole up in front of a video game in a word created by the imagination of someone else where the line is clear, the rules are always obeyed and the outcome is generally favored. No one dies, but they are either convinced of their wrongs and imprisoned until they are no longer a threat, or they change their stance and help the hero(ine) achieve the good of all people.

We just need a code that makes us impervious to destruction, but not impervious to the point.

UP, UP, DOWN, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, B, A, B, A, SELECT, START (infinite lives / health).

I'm surrounded by these huge walls of morals and human nature myself my friend...and I can't find a door either.

They purposely ignore the fact that most countries, even Russia see Israel's military retaliation to defend itself as justified;

Umm Putin and just about every leader except Bush has repeatedly called for an immediate cease fire for weeks now.

Shawn, there are many reasons this stuff is reported this way. Here are some of them:
• Because people are more complex than a set of numbers.
• Because adults have more ability to decide about whether or not to stay and fight or run or hide than children do.
• Because women are more likely to be looking after their children and less likely to be involved in the politics or the fighting.

Reporting on the race, creed, sex and age of victims gives people some sort of basis on which to understand what's going on ... as long as the reporting is accurate.

I think if Israeli soldiers killed 20 Jews you would want to know about it.

But don't you think that to an extent it adds fuel to the fire, especially if biased reporting is at hand? I understand why things are reported in actuality, I just posed a thought, that's all.

i'm not justifying killing women and children. the situation was clearly an accident. i'm justifying killing hezbollah and destroying its capability to wage war on israel.

if hezbollah was not there launching rockets in front of that building, then that building wouldn't of accidentally been destroyed. it is simple logic.

Logic based on false premises leads nowhere.

There is nothing wrong with The Filipino speaking his mind. Just because you, or even the majority, don't agree with it; doesn't mean he needs a warning or a ban.

I would really wish Newsvine admin would give you a warning or ban you until you start being more sane and show some compassion to others.

I definitely don't disagree with your underlying sentiment, cjlewis, but I have to say that it is useful to have people like The Filipino and some of the other right wing extremists posting these inflammatory statements. It allows more reasonable people to see their hatred in it's purest form. Although it may be repugnant for persons who have a conscience to read, it serves to make the line between those who espouse hatred and bigotry and those who espouse respect and tolerance even more clear. They are wrong, they deserve to have their weak and illogical arguments countered, but in the end we will all be made smarter by understanding opposing positions. It's just not easy to read sometimes, and not easy to believe that there are people who are so completely unable to grasp the need for compassion (not to mention pragmatism and common sense) in the midst of hatred.

The Filipino serves an important purpose here. He (or she) shows us all what prejudice looks like. If we came here to "Get Smarter", and we agree that prejudice is a barrier to our growth, then it's pretty useful to know what this barrier looks like up close and personal, even if we are disgusted at what we see.

Seeing the workings of the prejudiced mind in action also help us to understand the hopelessness of the middle east situation.

Here are some things we can observe:
• Prejudice is not stupid ... The Filipino is not an unintelligent being, he can string words and ideas together and find sources of information. So his totally warped view of the world is not due to lack of intelligence. This is an important thing to always remember if we want to tackle prejudice, on Newsvine, in our neighbourhood, or in the middle east.

• There is absolutely no point in trying to argue with prejudice. What would the point be? Anyone who has observed an exchange on these pages with The Filipino will sense the futility. Prejudice must be tackled in more creative ways. Starving it of oxygen is one.

• Prejudice thrives on conflict. If you remove a conflict from a prejudiced person (by walking away) they will simply find another conflict, becuase they are reproducing in the outside world the conflict that lives within them (projection).

• Observing prejudice in action enables us, if we have enough honesty and the courage for introspection, to see it in ourselves ("the monoculture of the mind" as Vandana Shiva calls it). Sadly, there is a little of The Filipino in all of us. Happily, we can work on that by seeing our own fixed and narrow views for what they are and slowly cease to identify with them (inner work).

• By observing the interaction of the prejudiced individual we can be reminded of the power of community, which when it works best, is based on plurality and the acceptance of diversity within the limits of respect and doing no harm. When we feel a sense of belonging in a healthy community the hatred often promoted by the prejudiced individual is no threat, it's just water off a duck's back.

Wow..Surya..I am humbled by your calm response. Your comments (Surya and Brad)makes a lot of sense. We need opposition in all things. How else do we know what is good and what is bad.

I just can't wait for this conflict to be over. Not that I am directly effected by it. But as a human, I feel we can do better than this. Sad. The only nation that the world counts on ..The US ....again disappointed the world...again.

You say I'm prejudiced and bigoted simply because I believe that Israel has the right to defend itself? That is quite a leap of logic. It is logic of the same category as saying that you people who condemn Israel for its actions are anti-semites and supporters of Hezbollah.

Do you consider yourself an anti-semite? I doubt it. Even if you were I doubt you'd have the courage to own up to it in public.

I support Israel's right to defend itself when attacked. They have the right to take actions to ensure that they are not attacked again. I feel a great deal of sympathy for the Jewish people. They have endured millenia of hardship. From enslavement in Egypt to the modern holocaust they have had to endure hardship after hardship from anti-semites simply because they don't believe in your Jesus or your Mohammed. In modern times in the Middle East every single one of Israel's neighbors want it wiped off of the map -- nevermind the fact that Judaism and Jews predate Islam and that they were there first.

Also Surya, you serve an important purpose here as well: you're a case study on how anti-semitism has proliferated itself as something acceptable in public discourse. Reading your comments, it's clear to me that groupthink and newspeak are alive and well.

You say I'm prejudiced and bigoted simply because I believe that Israel has the right to defend itself? That is quite a leap of logic. It is logic of the same category as saying that you people who condemn Israel for its actions are anti-semites and supporters of Hezbollah.

Most people here are condemning BOTH the IDF AND Hezbollah. Whereas, you only condemn one side.

i'm not justifying killing women and children.

In fact the majority of your posts do just that.

You say I'm prejudiced and bigoted simply because I believe that Israel has the right to defend itself?

The Israeli govt. called. They want their talking points back.

Frankly I am sick of hearing how Israel's "right to defend itself" can justify any action.

@Zaki
You make this statement as if Hezbollah and Lebanon have no hand in what is happening. Would Israel strike ig Hezbollah hadn't kidnapped their soldiers? Sure, Israel had been planning to attack Hezbollah for a while, but how long have they been being prodded.

Now, Zaki, is this the Qana incident you were referring to? The one where 160 rockets came FROM into Israel?

2006 Qana airstrike: On 30 July 2006, during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, after more then 150 missiles had been fired from the village towards civil towns in Israel, and after two days of warnings to the citizens of Qana to leave the village, a double airstrike on the town killed at least 60 people(including 37 children) and injured many others when an apartment building collapsed.[3]. The Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has condemned the attack as a war crime.

-sourceIf so, who are you furious with? Israel or Hezbollah? According to this, the civilians were warned. They got hit and now are upset for not believing Israel. After 16 days of fighting one would assume that Israel isn't making stuff up when they say they're going to attack a certain place. While it is unfortunate and I feel terrible that children and women were hurt, why didn't they leave when urged? Why does Hezbollah continue to attack Israel? Why does Israel continue to attack Hezbollah?

Neither side if guiltless and the sooner there is total agreeing on this, the sooner we can step forward and set things or attempt to set things right. Case in point: I've not seen much in the way of anything besides finger pointing and condemnation.
"Israel this, Hezbollah that.." and I'm guilty of it too. I can't think of a fair way to resolve the issue other than to tell the Arab nations that Israel is where it is - let it go and deal with it. Then I'd turn to Israel and tell them that they need to stop retaliating, they've made their point. Sit back, and go on defense within your own borders. Say you are very sorry for the deaths, and move forward.

I know its trickier than that, but at least it is a start.

Shawn please enlighten me as to what is Lebanon's fault in all this. Hezbollah, and their extremist stupidity yes. Israel's "shoot 'em all" mentality, yes.

The one blameless party is Lebanon, it's government and people.

First you assert that I believe Israel is blameless. I don't I just finished saying BOTH are to blame.

Neither side if guiltless and the sooner there is total agreeing on this, the sooner we can step forward and set things or attempt to set things right. Case in point: I've not seen much in the way of anything besides finger pointing and condemnation.

There is no indication as to who or what, only that both sides are guilty.

If I had to blame Hezbollah for something it would be for hiding in civilian areas and attacking Israel or at least being intolerant of their living area.

@Oluseye Bassir
Quid pro quo, enlighten me as to how Lebanon is guilt free considering that Lebanon is responsible for its people which include Hezbollah .

Are you saying that the US government is responsible for actions of militant groups, say the Ku Klux Klan even if done in another country, say Mexico?

Are you saying that the US government is responsible for actions of militant groups, say the Ku Klux Klan even if done in another country, say Mexico?

Maybe you haven't seen it on the news yet, but Hezbollah is firing the rockets from inside Lebanon.

Matt, the question is how that becomes Lebanon's fault. tell me what Lebanon could have done to avoiud the pummeling it's receiving.

So you're saying that if a militia in the state of Michigan decides to start firing rockets into Canadian towns with no military presence and begins killing people, and the United States does nothing to stop the militia, it's not our fault for letting them continue even though they're committing crimes in our territory? And then when Canada does something about it because we didn't, we can cry about it?

if you're incapable of stopping this, you can cry about it when Canada comes in and destroys half of the country. Definitely.

Alternatives would be for Canada to empower you to do it, NOT do things that would make the Michigan militia stronger, undermine the US government ant kill hundreds of civilians, displace 100s of 1000s and widen suffering.

The point is that Lebanon could not have avoided this. It was powerless to do so. Show me any credible evidence that it could have.

Show me some that it even bothered trying.

Here's one claim.

But here is also a news report that says that Lebanon was trying to solve the problem by national dialogue, a wise approach given that hezbollah is more powerful than the Lebanese military, and that the country had been wracked by war for decades.

The news report.