Chertoff: Not Certain All Plotters Found

I so totally agree with you, Phaedrus72. I find it interesting that the authorities (and now the Brits) very conveniently find some pending threat when things get really hairy for the home team. Nothing is going right with their foreign policy so they'll play the terrorist card.... Call me a cynic but I want to see some evidence.

Exactly, when all else fails, they yell, "Boo" to get everyone scared again. They dont want us to get too comfortable, if we do we just might vote in a Democrat, heaven forbid.

Even Hollywood has better script-writers than this. Why is the plot of the Bush administration so predictable? Everything is perfectly on cue, consent is being manufactured. Strange timing for me too considering last night I watched the first part in the excellent BBC documentary, The Power of Nightmares. Creating fear like this is pathetic, it just feeds into the terror-fear feedback loop and makes fools of us all. For some perspective on how long ago this script was written, I highly recommend seeing The Power of Nightmares - http:// www.youtube .com/watch?v=1wW2SqpdhbA

Saw this on Boing Boing: If the liquid could be explosive, why are you dumping it in a crowd?

I think it's an interesting question, and certainly makes me question the veracity of all of this.

Yea, it's like the plot of a very bad B rated movie where you know what is going to happen long before it actually does.

It's 1984 and everyone is fast asleep, totally obvlivious to what is being done to them, and in their name.

The moment Bush declared solidarity with Israel and the second Qana massacre I said there will be another 9\11. Even Robert Fisk Said it. Americans are now collective targets and the terrorists will get through. This will only delay them.

You guys are out of your friggin minds...

I guess it will take the one plot that we don't uncover for you not to cry foul.

You guys are out of your friggin minds...Yeah those guys that Ronnie Reagan saidin the oval office were "Made of the stuff of our founding fathers" and them armed em to the teeth. Now the Chickens are comming home to roost and you think that anyone is going to cry foul, maybe Israel will. America has made its bed now you dont want to lye in it Andrew Benton Why not it is so much safer post 9\11 Dont you feel safe ?

I thought Bush was a moron, yet he is smart enough to fool you guys.

hmmm.

I love the conspiracies!!!! Hilarious.

I guess it will take the one plot that we don't uncover for you not to cry foul.

Nope, if another 9/11 happens again, then I will say that our government did it again! As I said there are no such things as terrorists. The real terrorists reside in Washington!!

Ummmm...... How did he fool us?

He fools people Like this BMS

There are no such things as boogey men or terrorists. Not in this case. This is all a ruse by the Bush/Blair regimes. It's a fake news story, hoisted on the American people just a day after Lieberman loses his election.

But remember whether or not the plot was real it is still a win for the terrorists. That means Al Queda and the current administrations both of whom benefit from our continued and increased fear.

@P72 Please open your eyes to reality, we miss you out here.

http://www.mariettatimes.com/news/story/new21_810200683105.asp

Crazy pip, so let me get this straight, even if there are no real terrorists, this is still a win for the terrorists, the ones who don't exist. What planet are you from dude?

The real terrorists have names such as Bush, Blair, Condi, and DICK!!

P72 Have you ever met them? Have you ever sat in meetings? Have you seen their terrorism with your own eyes? You need to let this thing go or it WILL rip you up inside. Our kids need our full attention to keep a strong safe world for them to grow.

Infighting is worse than traveling a little off course. Direction can change slowly, but a body at rest has a tendancy to stay at rest (Oh and get shot at!), and that is what infighting does.

Worst case scenario: (Sigh!) Let's say that the Mason templers and all that whatnot does exist. You and 100,000 more of you would never change anything, and our kids would still have a world ripped in two, with the life boat sinking. They have never arrested us by the thousands like in Cuba, Germany, Russia, China, Vietnam ..... and they never will. We live well right here.

But none of that does exist. The mujslims do exist, and they want us rounded up by the millions........

Phaedrus, are you tyoping from Iran? You sound eerily similar to Arminadinnerjacket.

Remeber the terrorist attacks prior to the Bush admistration???

Kenya, Cole, 1st world trade center, Nairobi, and Riyadh.... those all took place during the Clinton administration when the elder Bush was secretly the president and Clinton was just the face man doling out the hugs and kisses, right??

gvance, it doesnt matter who is in political power, the ones pulling the strings are still the same. The international bankers of the world have been quoted as saying as much, they said that they care not for who is president or who is in Congress, as long as they control the money, they control the world. They and the Masons are the ones with the real power. Clinton, Bush, Gore, it doesnt matter, the results stay the same.

mcrg, I can not close my eyes to the truths of this world, simply because you think it might tear me up inside. If it makes you feel better and easier to sleep at nite then by all means, go on thinking that Bush is the good guy. That's fine, some of us know the truth though. Actually, according to most polls, most Americans, while not full fledged conspiracy theorists, do not believe the official government story about 9/11. Truth hurts sometimes, but we can't just bury out heads in the sand and hope for the best.

Where are the secret prisons!? Where are the shadow police? Where are the thought police?

How many have been taken in the middle of the night? Who are they where are they? How many mothers are crying in the streets crying for the return of their child from the SECRET prisons? Where are the babies waiting for their moms and dads to come back from the SECRET prisons? If you believe in black helicopters, then show me the AFTERMATH OF THEIR INTERACTIONS?

THEY DO NOT EXIST!!! THE LEFT IS MAD, In every sense of the word.

Always remember (and never forget): In every day, in every way, blame America first.

mcrg,

Wow, you really like making things up in order to maintain your world view.

There are no such things as boogey men or terrorists.

So all this time Hezbollah has been chilling with cheap lawyers, the Easter bunny, Tu Pac, and Santa? The people caught in Canada, UK, the US... all of them innocent people shamelessly detained without cause to promote an agenda? Multiple acts of religious oppression.

PHaedrus... terrorists were around in the 60s and 70s LOOOONG before Bush came into office, before Clinton, and before Reagan. Do you mean to tell me that Black September was all a fake scam as well?

Terrorists don't exist... bull... they're real.

Labels are labels my friend, but a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Let's see, if Hezbollah are terrorists, then so is Israel. As you said, a rose by any other name is still a rose. I am saying that the kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers was staged by the Mosad in conjuntion with the CIA. Yes, Hezbollah are firing rockets into Israel now, look at what is being done to them.

The people caught in Canada, UK, US dont exist. Have you ever seen them? Other than some fuzzy black and white pictures?

Yes, so called terrorists existed long before Bush and company. I never said that Bush invented the concept of a black flag operation, he is just continuing the practice. I have said before, that the ones who are really in power, care not for who is President. Whoever is president, democrat , republican or monkey, the results are all the same cuz the ones in power are behind the curtain. The American President is just a puppet. He has been ever since Kennedy was assasinated.

For the real "terrorists" who do actually exist, Bin Laden and such, they were all trained and armed by the CIA. The CIA has seen fit over the years to arm our enemies. Why would they do this you ask? Perpetual war for perpetual profit. They dont really want an end to our enemies, if we had no enemies, there would be no need for war, without war, there would not be the massive profits that war brings. What better perpetual war, than one called the war on terrorism, a war not a specif country or group of people, but on a tactic or idea. A war that even the Bush administration says will go on for decades to come. How convenient for those making the massive profits huh? You think this is all just coincidence, that Cheney's former company, Halliburton has made billions from this war in Iraq? I tell you there are no coincidences in the world. Everything happens for a reason and there is someone behind the wheel. They have made no mistakes in Iraq, things are going exactly as they planned. Get rid of Saddam, steal their oil, piss of Iran, so that Iran steps up their efforts to arm Hezbollah, voila you have war in the greater middle east. WWIII, it's what they have wanted for decades now. They thought they found their perpetual war with the cold war but even that war eventually ended. Woops! Must do something about that! Let's cause some terrorism and blame it on the "rag heads". Then we can go steal their oil and cause war for decades to come. It's brilliant actually, if it wasnt so sinister and evil.

Let's see, if Hezbollah are terrorists, then so is Israel. As you said, a rose by any other name is still a rose. I am saying that the kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers was staged by the Mosad in conjuntion with the CIA. Yes, Hezbollah are firing rockets into Israel now, look at what is being done to them.

That's all very interesting, but then how would you explain Hezbollah firing rockets at Israel for 6 or so years (about 19-21 times) whiel Israel did nothing?

I never said Israel wasn't causing terror either... don't asser that one. JUst because I didn't say it doesn't mean that it isn't true (and vice versa).

For the real "terrorists" who do actually exist, Bin Laden and such, they were all trained and armed by the CIA.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." We (the US) armed Afghanistan, not specifically Bin Laden, and this was to fight Russia. People assert that America makes or is expected to make permanent alliances. We don't, we aren't supposed to, we don't even want to. Capitalism functions poorly when you commit to a single ally. Keep your options open form commerce and trade, but as a result you have to be well armed and ahead of the world militaristically. Why? Ask Bin Laden.

They have made no mistakes in Iraq, things are going exactly as they planned. Get rid of Saddam, steal their oil, piss of Iran, so that Iran steps up their efforts to arm Hezbollah, voila you have war in the greater middle east. WWIII, it's what they have wanted for decades now. They thought they found their perpetual war with the cold war but even that war eventually ended. Woops! Must do something about that! Let's cause some terrorism and blame it on the "rag heads". Then we can go steal their oil and cause war for decades to come. It's brilliant actually, if it wasnt so sinister and evil.

Hold on here... so you're saying that the US is behind a war in a region of the world that has not known peace thousands of years PRIOR to the consideration of the thought behind the concept of the US?

Yes, so called terrorists existed long before Bush and company. I never said that Bush invented the concept of a black flag operation, he is just continuing the practice. I have said before, that the ones who are really in power, care not for who is President. Whoever is president, democrat , republican or monkey, the results are all the same cuz the ones in power are behind the curtain. The American President is just a puppet. He has been ever since Kennedy was assasinated.

"If it isn't broken don't fix it". I don't think that things are as planned as you think. You're tlaking about some heavy duty, super industrial, mauser of a think tank. Something that takes a handful of the greatest minds and activits in teh world to pull of to this level and then expect me to believe that only one side si in control. If anything about your theories are true, then it has to be done on both sides.. like playing a rigged game of chess. I won't believe that "powers" are playing solo chess, making the oher side lose just for personal gain... theres got to be that third gunman. Do I believe it? Sometimes I do.... usually I don't.

They thought they found their perpetual war with the cold war but even that war eventually ended.

Not really... WWIII still wages... China is communist and hates us, N.Korea is..well... thats obvious. Brazil? Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran... anyone with nuclear power who opposes us, we are in a "cold war" with. As a matter of fact, the Soviet Afghan war was part OF the cold war, which is WHY we armed Afghanistan...

The people caught in Canada, UK, US dont exist. Have you ever seen them? Other than some fuzzy black and white pictures?

I've never seen Elivs, and only seen him in fuzzy pictures.... I guess he's fake too. Come to think of it, this looks a bit fuzzy, albeit in color... so I assume you'd think this was fake too? Or this? I mean, two guys carrying a stretcher, with what looks like a pile of rags mean nothing to me. I can't make it out...is it a human body, a pile of rags, or what? I have to go by what I'm told.

In Canada, the NYT listed the terrorists as "not Middle Eastern but Asian".... to obad their names were arabic. Granted, some of the Middle East is on the continent of Asia depending on who you talk to.

What better perpetual war, than one called the war on terrorism, a war not a specif country or group of people, but on a tactic or idea

Um... what about the War on Drugs? You know, where we sent troops, PCMs (mercs), and "others" to take care of a few people bringing drugs in the US? Is that war over? No. What's wrong with wanting people to leave you the hell alone?

One Russian General, at some point, pointed out something about the US and it's tactics. At first people thought he was making fun of us. He said "THe problem with fighting the US is that we know their plan better than they do". What he meant was that US military adapt to changing situations very quickly... My point here Phaedrus, involves your whole It was planned" theory. It ties directly to another quote I heard while serving:

"A great plan is worth one minute". It means that a plan is good for the first minute it's in action. After that, you have to kind of adapt faster than your adversary.

I wouldn't say that the "war on terror" is pure conicidence... the world has hated terrorists since they popped up. Actually I'm pretty sure I rememebr reading all sorts of things regarding Black September in regards of wanting to hunt terrorists down.

@MRCG

How many have been taken in the middle of the night? Who are they where are they? How many mothers are crying in the streets crying for the return of their child from the SECRET prisons? Where are the babies waiting for their moms and dads to come back from the SECRET prisons? If you believe in black helicopters, then show me the AFTERMATH OF THEIR INTERACTIONS?...

...THEY DO NOT EXIST!!! THE LEFT IS MAD, In every sense of the word.

You know... some of the things the extreme left says is true. America does have black ops, green berets, Delta Force, SOG, PCM... we ARE the SpecFor elites in the world. I'll assume that your statememnt was made because you don't know anyone in the military or have never served, or you are part of said groups and deny it out of practice... please tell me that is the case. Anything else would make the statement foolish and unresearched.

This world is VERY dark.... to deny the existence of anything... is pretty shortsighted.

Now, I don't believe things happen in the fashion they're presented, nor do I believe that they happen to the extreme. I do think that a lot of the places and actions have occurred, but again, not to the fashion or extreme. Reuters photos prove things get exaggerated. Newsweek and the Quran flushing are proof things get misreported. Cindy Sheehan is semi-walking proof that people spin a situation for personal gain. It goes both ways... if anything is true about any of this it would be "There is no such thing as a 'ONE WAY' street, and there are no plans to install a 'STOP' sign". So far all I see are a set of slow and dim "flashing yellow" cautionary lights, a DO NOT ENTER here and there, and a HUGE FRIGGIN 'YIELD' sign being waved by both sides.

@P72 You said "rag heads"? Tsk Tsk how unfeeling! Very un-PC old sport.

Oh and what about the war on poverty? Didn't Johnson start that one?

I think he was asserting the general secret racist thoughts many Americans have towards Arabic peoples and the attitudes of those that harbor ill will with no real backing. I don't think Phaedrus actually thinks that of them. You'll understand once you talk to him a bit more... hes naturally "abrasive" but its to incite thought not a riot.

I have a headache.

I think P72 has the ability to defend his own words.

Didn't they want to blow them on approach over NYC, to rain large metal objects down on US little guys down here?

this means you'd need a syringe to accompany the bottles - you know to make it more legit... wonder what you can do with THOSE...

What does the "waste band" do? Is it a new invention that will make toilets a thing of the past?

when i heard about this, i told one of my coworkers my prediction that inside two years, we'll be required to fly naked. i could take off my pants and use them to strangle someone.

tiger: hey, don't give "them" any ideas !!

Sean: point taken. In my haste I used waste instead of waist. Thanks for reading carefully.

OMFGLOLIPOPS!

Beverages on a plane!!.... Beverages on a plane!!!.... OMG there are Beverages on a Plane!!!

Anyone who listens to Buzz Out Loud will get that :-)

Why do you insult Digg?

Probably because of the immature discussions and irrational thought that exists on Digg. The comparison to this thread is not that strong though.

Actually, I was being sarcastic while kind of agreeing with him. These days you see more and more Newsvine comments (not just this thread) that are increasingly similar to Digg's. Check the ones that have anything to do with Israel, Hezbollah, Bush, etc.

I love people who'd rather complain and drag things down further than raise the bar. I mean, on one post kayjay, you get upset and post "OMFGLOLIPOPS!" and which continues with posts of no substance, that you seem to be upset about.

If you want a serious discussion on this issue, maybe you could talk about how quickly we, as a society, are becoming desensitized to terror alerts and foiled plots, and how this thread reflects that.

Stand up, raise the bar, start the discussion.

Good thought to pass on the the TSA. When I was a kid a read a story about a woman that used a frozen leg of meat to bludgeon her husband to death and then when the police arrived she had already cooked up the murder weapon so that she could serve it to the investigating officers.

that was a Hitchcock tail. I remember seeing it on Nick at Night when I was a kid.

There was another movie (don't remember the name) where the killer uses a knife made completely of ice to kill someone, and then the police aren't able to find the murder weapon.

Thank goodness for circumstantial evidence.

Whenever I'm on a flight, I always bring a couple bottles of water. Sure it's on the plane all ready and it's free, but there's convenience in not having to ask.

will, it doesnt take much brains to tell the FBI and the CIA to cook up a fake news story about terrorist plots to blow up planes. Bush doesnt even have to do the dirty work. All he has to do is give the order and then sit back with his evil grin and laugh at the ensuing chaos while his and his friend's bank accounts get bigger and bigger.

You guys really need to look at the big picture of things. Iraq was all preplanned and nothing that is happening over there is by accident. They didnt screw things up badly, it is all going exactly as planned and that is what is truly @!$%#ed up! They knew that if they attacked Iraq, thereby emoldening Iran,all the while taking away any counter balance to Iran's power, that Iran would intensify their financing of Hezbollah in Lebanon, thereby ratcheting up the conflict in Israel. It's like a middle east domino effect that they themselves set in motion. The reason? Overall middle east war, WWIII, for what reason? Profit!

With al the CIA leaks to the New York Times?!?!? get real!

My home town... I kinda miss it sometimes. Except October through about mid-June.

PS. Screw the terrorists

PPS. Be sure and check out who's playing at the Double Door this weekend.

There are no such things as terrorists!!

Dude! Denial does not become you....

Let me rephrase it for you then. The REAL terrorists reside in Washington and London. Yes, there are terrorists but they are not the brown skinned muslim people that you have been led to believe.

There is terrorism in Africa, Asia, North America, Europe, and some in South America all of the time. The vast majority of it is our peaceful(?) Muslim brothers spreading it around to the Phillipines, Malaysia, Singapore, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Isreal (bombings all of the time), various Africa nations, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, England, Canada, and America to name a few.

http://mrcg.newsvine.com/_news/2006/08/12/322467-significant-terrorist-incidents-1961-2003-a-brief-chronology

Here's why our peaceful (?) Muslim brothers hate us. It starts young and in public school no less.

http://mrcg.newsvine.com/_news/2006/08/11/322040-hate-and-cruelty-against-other-faiths

Open your eyes, they hate us and they want us dead!

BTW: If Blair and Bush are the criminals you say they are, then go arrest them for murder and terrorism. W is a good man saving our sorry backsides from these monsters.

No. mrcg. "W" is not a "good man saving our sorry backsides from these monsters."

No.

Are you serious?

Really?

I am not in complete, conspiracy-theory agreement with Pheadrus.

But George W. Bush is not a "good man saving our sorry backsides" from anybody, let alone "these monsters."

If you pull very very hard, you might be able to get your head out of your ass.

GW is nothing but a badly-spoken TOOL.

He is not saving MY WELL FED ASS from anything.

He and his puppeteers are delivering me into what I strive to save myself from.

And that is a world in which I have to fear, daily, that my 9 year old son will be conscripted to fight in a "war" that I don't believe in. And, God willing, he and the other (minimum) twelve boys I love won't believe in it either.

Do you have children? Do you understand what will be left for them? Do you have the slightest idea what the world is going to be like in 20 years? In 10? in 5? In 1?

I am terrified.

FOR. MY. SON.

And my daughter. And my nephews and nieces. And the children of the people I love.

The United States of America (and I do have the time to spare to tell you what this country means to me, just ask), is not living up to the promise that was given to me. And by extension, to my descendents.

I was brought up to believe that the leader of my country would not be a jackass. I was brought up believing that if an utter jackass somehow found himself running my country, he would be run out on his ear.

That is not happening.

Partisan politics mixed with fear mixed with an overall sentiment that if we disagree, we are bad people is what is keeping this horror, this brand of terrorism, a continued onslaught.

This is not what our founding fathers wished for us. I firmly believe that.

http://mrcg.newsvine.com/_news/2006/08/11/322040-hate-and-cruelty-against-other-faiths

Be afraid! Be very afraid!

good, so i'm not the only one to think of 'Snakes on a Plane' then.

Well, since I'm the only one in this thread that used the word desensitized, I'll assume that question is directed at me, however, I don't exactly think we're talking about the same thing in the usage of desensitized, so I'm not really sure.

Not just you, a3dmofo.... My point is generally addressed to mrcg and all out there who are so distraught about the potential for terrorism to happen again as we see all over mainstream media after this announcement. I'm of like mind with merrydeath and P72: this much-belated ado over nothing we can do anything real about. "Homeland Security" is a misnomer. Our society will always be vulnerable to terrorism if we retain any kind of true liberty. By freaking out everytime somebody screams "boo," as DHS and TSA always does, we seriously jeopardize our true liberties. The mindset used by DHS and this administration looks more and more like the Cold War era Soviet Union style of government than ours: papers required to travel about, even domestically; spying on citizens; more and more intrusiveness into everyday life.....

Start racial profiling airline passengers now.

Young muslim men blow up planes, not mexican grandmothers.

While disregarding the usual arguments against racial profiling, you know what you would get if we started profiling racially?

You will end up with "young muslim men" in mexican grandmother drag. Not a pretty sight.

"Salaa-err-Hola."

Soo.. we stop all young muslim men in air ports? yeah... that is as effective at stopping terrorism on airplanes as pulling over every young black man walking down the street in order to stop crack dealing.

We wil give you a seat in the Medina prayer section, then. Remember to follow the GPS compass.

Umm... try dealing with having kids on a long flight and tell us it is not a big deal.

does the plane not serve drinks? I mean, I know I'm stuffed to burst at the bag of peanut (singular), but they do serve drinks... you could, I dunno - ask.