Bush Says Israel Defeated Hezbollah

dang, you beat me to it.

And me.

Quick, someone start a timeline for everything that occurs post-"defeat"!

Rightwing Bloggers Say Bush Doesnt Know What He is talking about: Insist Isreal Lost

The irony is that many rightwing bloggers are insisting that the US and Israel lost.

The National Review Editors for example call the Bush policy a "failure."

In addition to winning in Lebanon, Iran has the upper hand both in Iraq and in the contest over whether it will be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. If current trends continue, the Bush administration's project in the Middle East will require the same sort of expedient we have just seen in the Israel–Lebanon conflict: a papering over of what is essentially a failure.

Dan Riehl So, it turns out the lofty anti-terrorism rhetoric of Bush was little more than what some speech writer wrote to be read from a screen. . . . The man has looked over his head for much of his second term. Now, it's becoming more clear just how far. This will embolden the opposition in Iraq and could lead ultimately to the destruction of Israel.

Our war President has turned out to be a disgrace. At this point in world history, the Islamofascists look like they deserve to win. In fact, they might.

Paul Mirgenoff, Powerline Blog
Over at NRO's corner, John Podhoretz contends that this would mean the end of the Olmert government. I'm tempted to suggest that our government, having seemingly lost its will to oppose (or even to let others oppose) our deadliest enemies, deserves the same fate.

Michelle Malkin
Israel and the West surrender to Hizballah.

Terrorists and the U.N. win.

Peter Brookes, Senior Fellow, Heritage Foundation, NRO Symposium

If there is a clear winner in this war, it's Iran.

Soshana Bryen, NRO Symposium

Thus far, the U.S. and Israel lose; Iran wins.

Anne Bayefsky, NRO Symposium

Kofi Annan's wide grin, as he stood side-by-side with Secretary Rice on Friday, said it all. He won. But America and freedom's cause lost.

Jeff Goldstein

Israel and the US have been defeated. Hizballah will grow emboldened. As will Iran.

Pamela "Atlas" Oshry, interviewer to John Bolton

Bush Administration Betrays Israel and America

Daily Pundit - in a post recommended by Instapundit: "Read the whole thing, especially if you work in the White House."

Bush's proud words of five years ago stand revealed as hollow and meaningless. What happened?

What happened was one of the biggest failures of leadership in Presidential history. Bush supporters will claim that Bush was done in by a liberal media and the ferocious hatred of liberals and leftwingers, but that is one of the things true leadership is all about: Managing and overcoming opposition in order to achieve the necessary goals - in this case, the destruction of world Islamist terrorism and the regimes that support it.....The first administration of the first century of the American Third Millennium will, in my estimation, be remembered as one of the biggest failures of that century....He is a dangerous failure, and America will be well rid of him.

Bill Kristol and Charles Krauthammer both said this weekend on Fox that Hezbollah won and Iran has been strengthened. Attacks on the Commander-in-Chief and proclamations of American defeat are ubiquitous - among the same group that insisted for the last five years that such attacks are dangerous and wrong and that talk of American defeat helps the terrorists.

Because those bloggers speak for all "right-wingers" :roll-eyes:

Because those bloggers speak for all "right-wingers" :roll-eyes:

Odd you say that since no one said they speak for all right wingers - try reading before rushing to judgment since it is as I wrote: "many right wing bloggers". In any case, its certainly a fair number, perhaps you could offer some prominent opinions from right wing blogs to the contrary.

My point is, I don't really care what bloggers say because they only represent a very small portion of the population. Just because they are more vocal does not make them any more important.

I myself am a fairly moderate guy with leanings to the right. I don't that just Israel lost, I think both sides lost. I feel that Israel gained more from the fighting than Hezbollah and I think the end result for Hezbollah is going to be failure to regain control of the southern portions of the country.

I think both sides lost.

I tend to agree with you, I certainly dont agree with the "analysis" of the right wing bloggers I quote.

So you me and the right wing bloggers I quoted all agree on something - George W. Bush is making false claims of victory.

But I think that Israel did achieve some of its goals, just not all of them (getting their soldiers back). I do not think Hezbollah achieved anything at all, unless their goal was to piss-off Israel.

I do not think Hezbollah achieved anything at all, unless their goal was to piss-off Israel.

Unfortunately the perception of victory is an achievment for Hezbollah whether deserved or not. Here is a sampling of some coverage in the middle east Ahmadinejad Says Hezbollah Victorious

Syria declares victory in Lebanon conflict

Bahraini Shiites take to streets celebrating Hezbollah 'victory'

Perceived Hezbollah Victory Encourages Palestinians

The fact that most middle easterners appear to perceive it as a victory for Hezbollah tends to strengthen their position. I am no expert on middle eastern affairs, but it appears that Hezbollah is pereceived as having stood up to Israel.

Its not clear to me what Israel achieved in terms of concrete goals. What is it you think they achieved? A majority of Israels appear to believe the war a failure.

I think that the Israelis accomplished the destruction of weapons and originally the pushing of Hezbollah out of southern Israel. Yes, Hezbollah accomplished victory by simply not faltering or being destroyed, but it won't last (in my opinion). Israel's win may be small, but they still did not accomplish their main goal, which was the retrieval of their soldiers.

I meant southern Lebanon. My apologies.

hetep and Respect King Bush is as crazy a a bed bug. There was a guy over in Germany With the same illness.

November is our democracy's last chance. I am going out to find a new voter right now.

Wrong. Stamping out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is democracy's last chance. The way our government works is neither now and has never been at risk due to any other factors. Stop spewing rhetoric you don't even understand, let alone actually believe.

Hetep and Respect Brent, Speaking of Spewing, you must be confusing me with the "Journalist" at FOX News.

Stamping out Islamic fundamentalist terrorism is democracy's last chance.

As an African American I have a better chance of getting hit by a car or a White supremacist (American terrorist) cop then being harmed by one of King Bush's "terrorists".

Stamping out neo-conservatism the new communism is democracy's last chance. (My quote).

You went on to say:

The way our government works is neither now and has never been at risk due to any other factors.

How soon we forget, remember the "great" Republicans, President Nixon and President Reagan (started second government in the White House basement and could not remember it). At least these people were constitutionally elected. The King makes Nixon and Reagan look like boy scouts. Our remarkable democratic experiment will never be at risk from external "factors" we can only be brought down from within.

You remember Germany another well "educated" nation. Germany also had too many sheeple that followed another self-appointed "King", who lead them down the path of racist imperialism. Buy the time the sheeple woke up their national treasure (their children, democracy, wealth and reputation) was destroyed.

Brian my friend from the right, we need your vote in November. Come and join us patriots against the King.

Enough is Enough!

Lebanon's transportation infrastructure decimated. 10 times as many Hezbollah killed than Israelis. Billions of dollars worth of damage inflicted upon Hezbollah.

I'd say that Hezbollah got totally owned.

I think you need to learn to distinguish between Lebanese and Hezbollah. They aren't the same.

However, if you are trying to point out that we just turned many Lebanese citizens, last year's model democracy in the Middle East, into extremists, then you are right.

Billions of dollars worth of damage inflicted upon Hezbollah.

Were this the end of WW2 then Israel would now be expected to pay for those "billions" in reperations. As it is all those unforunate Lebonese cilvilians will have pay to build themselves new homes.

The reasons why independents and 3rd parties don't win is because people like you say that voters should vote Republican or Democrat because 3rd parties never win. If you want them to win, you vote for them. People are sheep. They are followers. If they see that 3rd parties are getting greater numbers, they'll start to vote for who they want, no the lesser of two evils.

Nasrallah will be dead in 24 months now that he has been labeled scumbag number two (just behind scumbag number one, Osama).

You really think so? Last I checked, they never got Osama.

The Lebanese people have suffered the consequences for their tacit approval and support of a fascist, anti-western terrorist organization.

Wrong again, the Lebanese people suffered as a result of their government supporting a terrorist group. Those civilians, in Lebanon and Israel alike, deserved none of this. They are just fodder in this on going war of ideals.

Sounds like Israel has won the first battle pretty handily and is on it's way to winning a righteous war.

What do you mean they won or are winning? The inevitable has just been delayed. When you surrounded by enemies, you can only fight so many off until you are smothered. Even with your big brother there to help.

How can anyone not view this as a defeat for the Hizbo-Whackies?

A lot of rightwingers call this a failure and a win for Iran.

ian-

who could possibly support the democrats with this ridiculous anti-war campaign, especially in light of recent events. we have a dictator whose chief goal is to destroy us, and he is rapidly gaining the means to do so. you want to elect an anti war candidate? you MUST have a death wish.

Look me in the face and tell me that the democratic party is not currently being run by the michael moore extreme leftists. Yep, you can't do it.

As far as independents, lieberman definitely has a shot. if i lived in connecticut i'd vote for him no doubt.

who could possibly support the democrats with this ridiculous anti-war campaign, especially in light of recent events. we have a dictator whose chief goal is to destroy us, and he is rapidly gaining the means to do so. you want to elect an anti war candidate? you MUST have a death wish.

War is Peace.

Look me in the face and tell me that the democratic party is not currently being run by the michael moore extreme leftists. Yep, you can't do it.

Ignorance is Strength.

As for that third one, the expression "Freedom Isn't Free" comes awfully close. We're working on that, though.

william mcdade,
thank you for your comments.

you make a reference to your big brother. if you check the history, you might might find that he is not batting 1000 in foreign wars with any real opposition during the last 50+ years.

look at the results:

korea (tie at best)
vietnam (shameful defeat)
1st gulf war (sure showed them!)
gulf war II (ongoing disaster)

as a military person myself, i have no doubt that the military can, could have and should have won all these conflicts if it were not for incompetent civilian leaders going in half cocked.

the fact is, if pissed off enough, the arabs will take israel, and in reality (short of turning the region into an ashtray), there is very little we can do about it.

so, the might of america is not "all that" and and there will be a time in the not so distant future where american supprt of israel might not be so staunch.

have a nice day.

we have a dictator whose chief goal is to destroy us

Is that a reference to Mr. Bush? *wink*

When you surrounded by enemies, you can only fight so many off until you are smothered. Even with your big brother there to help.

But look at how many of these neighbors are not quite as hateful of Israel as they used to be. They certainly aren't friends, but they have ended their death to Israel chants.

Doesn't anyone realize that this is just a chess game. Israel mat have won a few pieces, but Hezbollah has positioned itself right where Iran wants it to be in order to eventually checkmate the U. S. and Israel.

Hehehe. I gues there is something that Bush will disagree with Israel after all.

Twenty percent of those surveyed by Haaretz believed Israel was winning the war.

(I'm not saying that both sides won't claim victory -- I'm saying they don't need Bush on the sideline making the issue worse.)

On the contrary, it is extremely important for the US to have a position and let it be known. Otherwise we are either seen as uncaring or even worse, supportive of Hezbollah. Not saying anything is just as important of a statement, and in this case would be saying the wrong things.

Our position is to declare a victor during a ceasefire?

Seems like a silly position to take when the other side is likely to disagree -- and disagree in the ways that terrorist organizations who feel threatened tend to disagree: With violence.

I'm with you on this, I don't know how his comments of tough guy rhetoric actually helps to solve the problem and build a lasting solution. There is goign to be allot of hard work in the coming weeks to make sure the ceasefire stands and more in the months and years ahead to secure Lebenon so that a renegage radical groups can't take it over.

Otherwise we are either seen as uncaring or even worse, supportive of Hezbollah.

I don't think that this administration can be mistaken to believe that. While the presence (or lack thereof) of a statement is symbolic, no one needs a palm reader to know what the US is thinking.

You're right. Just let them say whatever they want. They'll go away.

voodoo - I hope you don't mind, but I need to correct you.

Tough guy rhetoric is great for frat boy pep rallies.

s/b
frat boy cheerleader rally

Dog gone it, now I hope I don't mind correcting myself.

frat boy cheerleader pep rally

Iran has given us all the preparation we need themselves. An illegal nuclear program, aiding terrorist causes against Israel, publicly pronouncing its wish to annihilate the state of Israel, and now publishing revisionist propaganda denying the Holocaust in the form of cartoons. Who needs rhetorical posturing when it is so obviously unnecessary?

Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, open your eyes people. Whether or not you like our current administration is no longer the point. We are at the point where holding on to your ill-gotten beliefs and fallacious "logic" can very well contribute to the destruction of our society. This is not about YOU. This is about US.

WAKE UP

Thank you for educating us, Brent.

As glib as your comment is, it belies the fundamental problem at hand. You are discounting anything I have to say instead of using it as a chance to at least understand an opposing point of view, and at best help break you out of the machine of groupthought that so obviously has you captive. Why? Because what I say is contrary to what you have already accepted to be "true", and that belief is more important to you than deciding on your own based on a multitude of information.

Think for yourself!

hey brent,

At no point did Bush take credit for Hezbollah's defeat. Moron.

and

We are at the point where holding on to your ill-gotten beliefs and fallacious "logic" can very well contribute to the destruction of our society.

may i recommend something? start with your own beliefs, buddy. in my opinion, putting people down with namecalling and making ridiculous comments about the "views" and "logic" of people you do not know is disrespectful and ignorant. please dont be so impulsive, acting like this you perpetuate something negative, and become more a part of the problem than the solution.

Brent, I just have to laugh at you. You have absolutely no idea what I believe or understand, and yet you continue to self-righteously school me.

I am thinking for myself. Are you? Sounds like you're just on the other end of the spectrum, guilty of the very thing you're accusing me of. You have some waking up of your own to do.

I am thinking for myself.

If this is indeed the truth, then I find myself back at my original conclusion. But that's "against the rules".

Seems to me you're just a troll. But we all know how appearances can be.

Cheers.

^^

Exactly what I'm talking about when I speak of people who have been caught by the propaganda machine.

What propaganda? Those are all facts that can be checked and have been in the media. Maybe not in the US media, I agree. You said you read all you can. So do I, but I also read sources from different countries, like the UK or Germany. Maybe you should try to read more or a less biased selection. And maybe you are the one who got caught, Brent.

brent,

i don't think anyone is listening to you anymore

Serously folks, who voted bush?

Obviously, the clear plurality, then majority, of citizens.

Bush lost the popular vote, the electoral college is what got him in. Am I the only one who remembers this?

Bush lost the popular vote

Umm...he won the popular vote by plurality, and Gore lost the popular vote by not having a plurality. And that was 2000.

Bush won the popular vote in 2004.

Am I the only one who remembers this?

Don't worry, you're not. A couple people in Arkam Asylum may remember it as well.

Contrary to popular belief the majority of American Internet users do not represent the population of the United States. Of course if that were true we would already have lost half of New York and our Economy would be worse then that of Lebanons right now.

Actually...Bush did not "win" the vote the first time. He was appointed President by the Supreme Court.

And...there are enough articles about the Ohio election issues and returns to lend quite a lot of suspicion to the results there. Results...which if reversed...would have put Kerry in the White House.

I suspect that 40 years from now (hopefully sooner), the truth about Shrub rigging both elections will be published.

I have to agree with the Dixie Chicks...we are ashamed to have him say he's from Texas.

Shame what happened to the DIxie Chicks as a result of expressing an opinion.

Actually...Bush did not "win" the vote the first time. He was appointed President by the Supreme Court.

Wrong.

And...there are enough articles about the Ohio election issues and returns to lend quite a lot of suspicion to the results there. Results...which if reversed...would have put Kerry in the White House.

Won't be reversed, regardless of how many people whine and cry about it at this point.

@RegBarc... You're absolutely correct. An election once stolen and certified...is, nevertheless official -- no matter how onerous or illegal.

And, oh, btw...if you've forgotten your current events, you need to review the 2000 election history that was only "validated" after the Supreme Court prevented further challenges to and recounts of the Florida election results...thus resulting in the appointment of Shrub to the presidency.

The recount of all Florida ballots initiated after the Supreme Court decided in favor of Bush, found that Gore actually won the popular vote, so Bush did not win by the most important yard stick imaginable - the will of the people! Leaving that fact out is legal sophistry at best.

To some, elections seem like a game or a war where anything goes. With that level of cynicism, we might as well be back in the caves.

So...instead of learning an important lesson from Pearl Harbor about the dangers of valuing peace over all things, you get to use it as support for some BS about the right being the only source of propaganda?

Well obviously they are not the only source of propoganda but then none of the others have depts under Rumsfeld dedicated to it so I suspect propaganda opponents could be at a bit of a disadvantage.
I don't recall making any exclusive point about the right, you may have simply linked the fact that they have been in power for 2 terms and comically put two and two together and leapt to attack your own conclusion. You do seem to be spoiling for a brawl. Must be difficult having only 'the dictionary of righteous pomposity' and 'playground jeers for idiots' as guidance. For someone who reads a lot and comes to their own conclusions you veer dangerously close to 'web-parrot' Your disdain is apparent (obviously a grumpy owner) but cohesive argument sadly lacking.
'valuing peace over all things' Given the right conditions I would have no problem using pontificating warmongers who sacrifice American soldiers not in the pursuit of peace but the amplification of conflict to little end, I would have no problem using their skulls as ashtrays. But I guess to you that would just make me a do do head.

oops should have read more thoroughly, off course I made a point specifically about right wing zealots.

what a fool. history will not be kind to him

When you're ready to sell your time machine, I'll be the first bidder.

I believe it's pronouced "turr."