Rumsfeld Lashes Out at Bush's Critics

Smells like @!$%# to me.

Oluseye, that's what Nycam said...

Slow me! Of course Rove=@!$%#. Didnt know.

I would comment but I hafta go take a Rove.

Remember those two reporters that converted to Islam? You don't un-convert. You try, you die.

http://www.muhammadanism.org/Government/Government_apostasy_1.htm

In Islam, an apostate (murtad) is a Muslim who renounces his faith in Islam. This renouncement may be by word or by deed. Muhammad, the Apostle of Islam, instituted the death penalty for the crime of leaving the fold of Islam.

As soon as they said they only did it because of the guns, they got marked. They may not last long either, with all the Muslims in the USA.

So, maybe there is a reason that we are fighting this war on terror.

Watch the news, I think that they will be different after this revelation.

They are not doubters, they are sure.

They're patriots.

And, the majority.

Oh wait, there I go thinking this is a democracy again...

Right. That's why you're able to read dissenting views regarding our government in a number of sources without fear of reprisal and voice dissent which you just did on an internet site for all to see whereas it's nearly impossible in much of the arab world without threat of reprisal from oppressive regimes.

He!... He he!.... Ha ha ha!.. HA HAHAHAHA! LOL!....
Are you serious dude? What a sham;;ok..and that danish journalist who went over to the states to have an interview with Al Gore and got a thumb stuck up his ass even though he had the new I-VISA and all other documents in order is what? the typical American warm welcome to your country? HA! you are hilarious ..but keep up the immensely good work. Long time since we had such an comedian here or elsewhere.. LMAO! ROFL!

in much of the arab world without threat of reprisal from oppressive regimes.

Which countries? How much arabic do you read? How much do you actually pay attention to besides the fundamentalists who scream the loudest?

Sure - its no "free press" in many countries, but the voices are there if you actually care to listen or read them.

That's why we have elections! Vote them out!

We tried. They campaigned on lies and managed to get a lot of sheep to vote for them again even after they failed miserably with their first term. (Which many of us don't believe they "won" in the first place. Don't preach to us about voting them out - many of us still feel like we got shafted by the SCOTUS in 2000.)

Much of the arab world can't do that either.

Yes, and when they DO go democratic, we don't like who THEY pick, and allow Israel to bomb them.

"We've invented this thing called Democracy!"

"Brilliant! How's it work?"

"The people get to pick their leaders and who gets to represent them!"

"Choosing their own leaders? BRILLIANT!"

"Oh, wait, they just picked the people who hate us!"

"Ach! Not so Brilliant! Bomb them!"

I think that every time the Administration talks about instilling democracy and freedom in the Middle East, it should be a law that all TV stations have to put up a little asterix next to the person's head and write: "*Democracy as the U.S. wants it, with the U.S. ideals and U.S. backing of the U.S. chosen leaders. Void where prohibited, and where we're planning to overthrow next."

but the voices are there if you actually care to listen or read them.

Here is an interesting point of view if you care to listen

I certainly don't agree with this type of 'reporting':

While some of your criticism is legitimate, its not clear that the press had much opportunity to attend. In addition, this was probably not based upon a press release but the prepared speech provided by the DOD. At least the reporting makes clear that they were not basing it on a first hand account, much worse is articles that do not make it that clear.

If you read the actual speech as it was prepared it certainly does qualify as lashing out.

My mistake - it was most likely the prepared speech and not a press release, but I think my meaning still made it through.

While the reporting makes it clear, there are two major problems with the report:

1. The headline in no way makes it clear and instead attempts to influence the reader toward the opposite conclusion
2. Rumsfeld could, at any point during the actual speech, deviate from the prepared remarks, in which case the quotes provided would in no way stand up (though I realize they usually do not stray from their prepared texts, it does happen).

With regard to the "lashing out," I see it as sensational, especially since the speech had yet to be delivered and the reporter was not in attendance. You disagree. I'm okay with that.

As the article reads now, the event is past - so why did the reporter feel the need to write the article prior to the presentation? At least include the disclaimer "Rumsfeld Expected to Lash Out at Reporters... judging from his prepared remarks, Rumsfeld... etc." until the actual event occurs.

There's little difference between an American soldier raping a young Iraqi woman and killing her family and an Iraqi royal doing the same.

So you believe they are guilty when charged? Or should they be considered inocent until evidence is produced and found guilty by a court?

So you believe they are guilty when charged? Or should they be considered inocent until evidence is produced and found guilty by a court?

lol we believed saddam was guilty of wmds without checking
we believe the guilt in everyone in gitanimo
heck iran is building a nuke.. right guilty as charged
iran will nuke isreal, right guilty as charged?
I guess that german we tortured and released was guilty as charged
it is amazing when people come up with little quips and then never follow them themselves
I guess they are only upset when it is directed at their policy rather than at someone else.

coverage we see today

What coverage? All I see is wall to wall John Mark Karr playing the media like a psychotic fiddle. Seriously, you'd think that three networks with 24 hours of news could actually FREAKING COVER SOME OF IT.

I'm sorry, this may sound callous, but I don't really care about a 10 year old murder case in Colorado. Its tragic, sure, but unless there is a mad child serial killer loose in Colorado, threatening hundreds of kids, WTF is it national news?

Where's all the glowing coverage of the amazing restoration job we're doing in Iraq? Oh, that's right, all of the journalists went to Israel for vacation... Lying on the beach sure beats the hell out of sitting in a room in the Green Zone day after day, waiting for something to get secure enough to be reported on...

Hell if this keeps up, and we don't invade Iran anytime soon, these reporters might have to go back to Afghanistan and report on the war we're still fighting there! Probably with stupid bumps like "AFGHANISTAN II! RETURN OF THE TALIBAN! WOLF BLITZER REPORTS FROM GERMANY!"

It is in hopes of finding links like this that the hours spent on Newsvine are not in vain!

Vice President Wallace's answers to those questions were published in The New York Times on April 9, 1944, at the height of the war against the Axis powers of Germany and Japan:

"The really dangerous American fascists," Wallace wrote, "are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power."

Emphasis mine.

I agree. Links like this make my day. This shows what a slippery slope the repubs are trying to force the nation on.

Well since we're on the subject and everyone seems to like reading about fascism here's two more that expand on it even more. I for one hope they're wrong.

It seems to be a big taboo to compare Bush's policies to Fascism and especially Nazism. But when the parallels are so strong, it seems neglegent to not discuss it, and make sure that it actually is ridiculous that the US could be headed towards fascism.

The Real Threat of Fascism

Before the rise of fascism, Germany and Italy were liberal democracies. Fascism did not swoop down on these nations as if from another planet. To the contrary, fascist dictatorship was the end result of political and economic processes which these nations underwent while they were still democratic. In both these countries, economic power became so utterly concentrated that the bulk of all economic activity fell under the control of a handful of men. Economic power, when sufficiently vast, becomes by its very nature political power.

The Reality of Red-State Fascism

In short, what we have alive in the US is an updated and Americanized fascism. Why fascist? Because it is not leftist in the sense of egalitarian or redistributionist. It has no real beef with business. It doesn't sympathize with the downtrodden, labor, or the poor. It is for all the core institutions of bourgeois life in America: family, faith, and flag. But it sees the state as the central organizing principle of society, views public institutions as the most essential means by which all these institutions are protected and advanced, and adores the head of state as a godlike figure who knows better than anyone else what the country and world's needs, and has a special connection to the Creator that permits him to discern the best means to bring it about.

Catch22... great response... perfect... where is the freaking accountability... blame blame blame... heck, it took W one full year to accept blame for the Katrina mess (which he did today) at that rate, on his retirement he will then accept blame for the 2600 plus and counting deaths of soldiers

Catch...you rule with these ones...keep up the great work man!

Yes, it's classic Orwellian doublespeak... accusing opponents of precisely what you yourself are guilty of.

*Rumsfeld's arguments would be void based solely on Godwin's Law.

Unfortunately I'm too new to post links.

Allow me! ;) Godwin's Law

I dunno, Jim. I think even if the Dems win there won't be much in the way of investigation - everyone is in too deep, Reps and Dems.

There is some truth here Mykota. There are a lot of Dems who will not admit their vote for the Iraq war was wrong. Look how long it took Kerry to say it was a bad vote.

Jim, Mykola and JayMack - I agree with your comments. I have been a life-long Democrat but I am now ready for some kind of fundamental change in who we get to choose from for public office. But, who are the real non-plastic mold candidates?

I have always believed that Sen. John McCain would have handled things better. Someone who spent time in the Hanoi Hilton would probably have demanded more compelling reasons to take us to war in Iraq.

Maybe it is time we actively sought out a woman to be President. I'm ready to see if the maternal instinct would help our country. It certainly would be no worse than what we have and I suspect it would be better. Gov. Ann Richards could do the job, even though she too is a Texan. Also, a female President would likely not surround herself with the kind of advisors that are entrenched in the current administration. Matriarchal societies have been successful in many places for thousands of years. Maybe we need one here.

Special Olympics.

Thanks sooo very much Jakers

you nailed it thoroughly and firmly with that one.

Always open to new ideas, I decided to take Rummie's suggestion to look and learn from history. My inquiries led me to an interesting article Dr. Laurence Britt has written called "Fascism Anyone?" In it he compiles 14 similarities in historic fascist regimes. While his article details many examples, I will list the 14 points here (see how many you recognize and who is advocating them):

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of Nationalism [Flags and symbology everywhere]. 2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. 4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. 5. Rampant sexism [sexual rights such as divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed]. 6. A controlled mass media. 7. Obsession with national security. 8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. 9. Power of corporations protected. 10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. 11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. 12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. 14. Fraudulent elections.

This is why Rummy is so hilarious here. He and his adminstration define Fascism.

1. The American patriotism. 2. The disintegration of our civil rights and opponents human rights.
3. Axis of Evil
4. War on Terror (or How We Steal Oil)
5. Gay Marriage, Wanting to recall Row vs Wade.
6. Hello Fox News, Time Warner Media, MSNBC, ABC, and the news wires. Anything else (LA times, NY Times) is commie pinko publications. If you aren't owned by a billionaire republican, you're a communist publication. 7. Homeland security and wire taps
8. We all know W's strong belief in being appointed by god. He's the decider, you know.
9. Duh. Most of the top 50 forbes list have received government bailouts / subsidies. 10. Unions are evil and global economy is good.
11. Remember all of the government programs for the arts? Bush has cut most of them. 12. Bush has signed more executions than any person in the history of America. He is in favor of frying the retarded and insane, as well. He even mocked a man pleading for his life. 13. Hello neocons! How was the 700 club and Rush Limbaugh this week??
14. Florida 2000. Thanks Jeb Bush and Kathleen Harris. Ohio 2004 - black aren't allowed to vote democrat in Ohio, I guess. Only in other states.

The neocons rally around Bush and his administration because they have fallen in love with the image, I believe. Just like the Italians fell in love with Mussolini.

With all due respect and thus because of it, I will tell you before I do this.

I will as of right now be copying this thread and start to post it every where possibly.

Thanks so very much to you both, Gnoleb as always and to you too MRZK.COM.