Iraq al-Qaida Says Pope, West Are Doomed

Factuality? There are usually many, many facts at a person's disposal about Islam, and many, many possible interpretations of those facts. Why did Benedict choose this particular fact? Given the context in which he gave it, including the all important context of his being the Pope when he said it, what was he trying to say? What was he trying to do?

The Pope is one of the most powerful leaders on this planet. His statements have a huge impact. He has a great responsibility to try and bring peace, to bring people together. John Paul II would never have said what Benedict XVI did. The Vatican itself knows that he screwed up. They are now trying to fix it without admitting the fallability of the Pope.

I use quote marks because it's my opinion that the reaction is a result of a few individuals with more fundamentalist / extremist views and does not usually represent the majority view of the community as a whole (correct me if I'm wrong)

I can only hope so.

but my understanding of Islam was that it was a tolerant and peaceful religion.

So is Christianity, Hinduism, and a host of other religions. I'm not trying to disparange religion, I'm just saying that they strive for the ideal (peace) but also partake of the opposite (violence).

I personally am weirded out by the fact that people are bent out of shape by a 14th century text - obviously there will be some bias in it! Also I find it strange that Muslims care what the Pope says.

and they wonder why so many Americans have this image of Muslims as war-mongering savages intent on destroying everything "Western." The problem isn't that all Muslims are this violent, the problem is that the ones that speak up are the ones intent on destroying the infidels.

It's a pretty bold leap to say they have complete victory in Iraq and elsewhere... at best it's a draw. And then to go on and say that the rest of us are going to die or be converted... well now, that's just rude.

Yes, peaceful religions have radicals like the Holy War Christians and Southern Baptist KKK. What's your point?

Southern Baptist KKK? That's interesting. I didn't realize that the Southern Baptist convention sponsored the KKK. I didn't even realize that KKK members supported the Southern Baptist convention. In fact, in the last decade, I'm not aware of any KKK members blowing up massive amounts of innocent civilians, hijacking planes, etc., etc. I guess I could be wrong though.

I am also not aware of any southern baptist churches that go out and blow stuff up and burn images of you in the streets when you suggest that they are supportive of the KKK.

That's my point. All religions have among their members radicals who may be believers, but do not necessarily reflect the religious values of the group they choose to "worship" with. Evil is not a nationality nor a religious doctrine and those who lump together people under one banner of all X's do Y are guilty of the same type of extremist beliefs that Bush promotes to justify endless war. In WWII it was all Germans and Japanese, now it's the newly coined Islamo-Fascists. PR talking points only serve to mobilize the unthinking masses and it is a tactic used effectively in all political factions. Bush and the Pope have energized their respective Bases in exactly this fashion.

My point is, look at the reactions. They are very telling. You can talk about Crusades, the KKK, and other embarrassing things in the past, but that's exactly where they belong, in the past. The burning question that needs to be answered (for me anyway) is why aren't we seeing muslims burning pictures of Osama in the street? Why aren't we seeing violent outrage from muslims against muslim terrorists that are ruining their religions image?

Why is it that when someone draws a cartoon, or the pope says something disparaging, people start killing people, burning with rage up and down the street, but when some terrorist blows up a building in the name of their god, there's nothing.

Von, it is interesting that when Muslims and even western secularists bring up the Crusades, there is very little understanding of the context and impetus of the European Crusades, and of course no apology is ever demanded of a speaker who invokes the word "Crusades" in their speech. However, here is a very interesting article and timeline about the 400 years or so of Islamic Imperialism (sort of a Muslim Crusades if you will) that preceded and was the impetus of the European Crusades.

My point is, look at the reactions. They are very telling. You can talk about Crusades, the KKK, and other embarrassing things in the past, but that's exactly where they belong, in the past.

Yes, because we all know that cross-burnings do not exist in our country anymore. Nor does the attempt to blow up "abortion" clinics.

Oh...I'm sorry when was the last time Christians lopped off someone's head b/c they said something derogatory about Jesus? Also, moderate Christians are always speaking out against radicals. I'd like to see that in the muslim community

Have you lived in a Muslim community?

I would say its less outrage from the people themselves but it is their religious leaders who instill and encourage the outrage from the members of their mosque's. I doubt there would be nearly as much protests without muslim leaders preaching hate and encouraging the protests.

Pamela Drew,

The KKK is not a christian org, and the extremist element in Christianity are so minute they don't even represent .1% of total Christians. Extremem Muslims represent at least 10% of their religion

Have I lived in a predominantly muslim community, no. Are there muslims in my community, yes we have quite a few in my area...I haven't heard a word from them denouncing muslim extremism

The KKK is not a christian org, and the extremist element in Christianity are so minute they don't even represent .1% of total Christians. Extremem Muslims represent at least 10% of their religion.

The KKK is a christian organisation, just visit their website.

And were are you getting that 10% from? There are about a billion Muslims in the world, and if your estimation is correct, then 100 million are "extremists." I guess that could be true depending on what you call an extremist. I have neighbors who think Jesus is going to appear magically on earth before their lives end. That seems pretty extreme to me, in which case I suspect your conservative estimate of .1% is quite off.

Have I lived in a predominantly muslim community, no. Are there muslims in my community, yes we have quite a few in my area...I haven't heard a word from them denouncing muslim extremism

I haven't heard a word from any Christians I know denouncing the bombing of abortion clinics, even though I suspect most of them do find it fundamentally wrong. The simple truth is people try not to think about things like that whether they are Christian or Muslim.

I haven't heard a word from any Christians I know denouncing the bombing of abortion clinics, even though I suspect most of them do find it fundamentally wrong.

I know many christians (and others) that spoke out against these attacks. You cannot serve a belief that follows the path of peace by potentially harming others. That isn't to say if your life is endagered you shouldn't protect yourself.

As far as the KKK being a christian extremist group. You're right. They do the things they do and hide behind their corrupted view of the religion they "represent". However, many MANY people (including christians) have fought against these KKK groups.

I fear the message of Islam is not one of peace as many would have us believe, but I don't know enough about the religion to speak to it. A hobby of mine is to learn about as many religions as I possibly can and Islam is one them I am focusing at the moment.

My personal view on this current issue is that the reaction doesn't fit the offense. Perhaps the quote shouldn't have been used, but it also shouldn't offend so deeply as to provoke such a violent response.

I give a "2" It has easy lyrics, but you can't dance to it.

You can dance to it if your rapping it correctly.

:)

I thought Dr. Smith had joined Al-Qaida (We're doomed!).

sure you can dance to it - in a burka.

Sydney's archbishop didn't back off of it at all.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20434687-5005962,00.html

First of all, if you are really a Christian, you wouldn't say that we are all brothers and sisters under one common God. Jesus said in the Bible that "no One comes to the Father except through me"(John 14:7). Obviously, by your statments, you are about as much of a Christian as Ralph Nader is a good politician

First of all, if you are really a Christian, you wouldn't say that we are all brothers and sisters under one common God. Jesus said in the Bible that "no One comes to the Father except through me"(John 14:7). Obviously, by your statments, you are about as much of a Christian as Ralph Nader is a good politician

The bible also tells us that handicapped people shouldn't be allowed in churches, that we should stone disobedient children, and that it is okay to kill homosexuals and interracial couples. Obviously we already pick and choose the verses, what is wrong with ignoring one more verse?

But in Leftists defense I'm sure there are plenty of verses which support his assertion.

I think so. Maybe double double secret doomed actually. I am losing count. I do love the fact they they are telling us we are doomed. I mean, we have the bomb. They have ligher fluid and an effigy. OOOoooooohhhhh! Not the effigy! Noooooooo!

My wife had a good idea. She said "Why don't we get all of the terrorist leaders to come to one giant conference and then drop the bomb on them" The Non-Aligned nations conference would have been a good oppurtunity for that

awwww... they just look so cute and cuddly... and PEACEFUL! Oh man i'll bet they're a hoot at a party or company picnic. Can't you just see the love and peace on their faces?

Just brings to mind puppies and cupcakes.

If there is one group of people you shouldn't mess with it's the Swiss Guard.

so true, they just proved the pope right. dumbasses.

Hahahaha. I know I shouldn't be laughing, but the antics of these wacky Islams just get goofier and goofier as time goes by.
Don't portray the Prophet in media! Oh, no, you did it. Now we will declare some curse or jihad on you.
If you're the Pope, don't refer to words that were uttered by other religious figures in the past! Oh, no, you did it. Now we will declare some curse or jihad on you.
Next is, don't tell us that women exist in our country. And, most of all don't tell us that they should walk outside without a male escort... Oh, no, if we do, then (just when all the other jihads were about to expire, and they were going to resume peaceful leaving (really!)) they will start a new fresh jihad.
Oh, shock and awe! A jihad? How fresh and new and startling. How should I react to such a new declaration? I'm so unused to millions of jihads being declared over the years. I might not be able to handle a whole jihad, again. /sarcasm>
To the instigators: I know you have a gun. But trying getting a life. It might be the better choice of the two.

The irony is that the America is far from a paragon of equality toward women, not immune to declaring what is essentially a holy war for political/populist reasons. How many Christian denominations allow women to be priests? Can a woman go out shirtless like a man without getting arrested? What is the majority opinion in America about gay marriage? How long ago was interracial marriage illegal in many/all jurisdictions? How many are comfortable with it today? How recently were blacks and women not allowed to play on certain golf courses? Will contemporary American mores and behavior be viewed as "wacky" and "goofy" "antics" by future generations?

Even the more fundamentalist Islamic countries are at most a few hundred years behind the West in attitudes towards women. Such a time span is minuscule compared to human history. And women attained better equality in the West more due to their growing economic power rather than men realizing it was the fair and rational thing. While we should put pressure on Islamic countries to make changes, doing so out of self-righteousness or with a patronizing attitude shows a lack of self-awareness.

They proved to pope to be correct.

Every religion has it's fanatics, but this seems to have more than it's share.

I would like to hear the moderates object to the extremists, otherwise the extremists are shown to be correct.
This only increses their appeal.
The reaction cannot and should not be tolerated.
You cannot tip toe around the truth. Words should not result in this violence. Their is so little tolereance on the large sect of Muslim etremists.

Where is the press's spine??? Hold the accountable for their childish behavior.

Republish the cartoons!

Who are these Amerians... and which country do they reside in?

Ameria.

Od ess Ameria!

I LOL'd

The whole reason that the US is the Great Satan is that we allow abortions, homosexual relations, and equality for women. These things are against Islam, Judaism and Christianity. If we were more religious, and followed the teachings of the Gospels and the Tora more literally, Muslims wouldn't have such a problem with us. The Koran says that the Bible is the the divine word of God, but it also says that Christians and Jews have rejected the Bible.

The crux of the conflict is that western civilizations will not govern themselves by the law of God, and the Muslim nations live by the law of Mohammed (Sharia) where there is no seperation between church and state.

And the Establishment Clause was one of the most important points of the Constitution!

Yeah, that along with the Free Exercise Clause guarantees a conflict with any orthodox Islamic nation. The best thing to do would be for each to tolerate the others existence.

the Muslim nations live by the law of Mohammed (Sharia) where there is no seperation between church and state.

Explain Turkey. It's secular, and democratic.

Well, I did say orthodox Muslim nations. But I would add that Islam does not dictate what type of government you have, as long as the secular laws do not conflict with Sharia.

While they may have some part to play in the escalation, this has been going on for a loooong time.

Well, if it is going to take a looooooong time to de-escalate, shouldn't we start right now?

Haven't we?

I wouldn't call the Bush adminstration's form of engagement with the Islamic world a de-esclalation.

Got me, but I've got an AR15 waiting to accept it should they come on over & try it! :)