Haggard Now "Completely Heterosexual"

Church officials should stay away from sayings like: Do not as I do, but as I say.

This statement applies to anyone in any walk of life, not just church officials. People outside of church shouldn't be held to lower standards. He's a bad person not because he's a hypocrite who works in a church; he's a bad person because he's a hypocrite.

Being a hypocrite doesn't make you a bad person...perhaps a dishonest one, but not a bad one.

Being the head of church with significant sway in the minds of thousands of people, and teaching them condemnation of people and acts in which you yourself participate...that, I would say, is the sign of a "bad person".

Being the head of church with significant sway in the minds of thousands of people, and teaching them condemnation of people and acts in which you yourself participate

Ummm ... that's pretty much the definition of "hypocrite."

Yes, but your average hypocrite doesn't do measurable damage to an incalculable number of lives through the ideas he/she promotes, whereas a church leader or politician *does*, and that, I feel, is of far greater importance.

I think his point, Adam, is that a hypocrite doesn't, by definition, have influence on anyone. Therefore a high-profile Hypocrite is worse than a avg everyday Hypocrite.

It's a matter of scale (sort of).

I agree with finalcult & Vincent Grayson. If in a position of power is what you feel is wrong, how about just the sheer thought that a parent could be this way. Do you think racism is a genetically driven trait? No, hatred is taught and its usually through people like Ted Haggard. Another great example is Strom Thurmond, the man who was so racist, and yet fathered a black child.

I think his point, Adam, is that a hypocrite doesn't, by definition, have influence on anyone. Therefore a high-profile Hypocrite is worse than a avg everyday Hypocrite.

I understand it is his point, but it just doesn't hold a lot of water for me because:

1) It serves as an excuse for your "everyday hypocrite." Just because nobody cares what you think doesn't mean you can be a jackass. I see little difference between "hypocrite" and "liar." At "best," a hypocrite is by definition a dishonest person leading people on with false pretenses; this by itself, I'd say, disqualifies a person from "good person" territory, for the most part.

2) It lends way more credibility and importance to Haggard and other religious leaders than I am willing to give them. He's an ass because he felt like he was in a position to damn people who participated in acts he himself enjoyed (apparently). That's the only reason. That other people follow him or flock to him is their own stupid fault (well, religion in and of itself is misleading and false, but that's a separate argu ... actually, it's the same one; it's why organized religion is dangerous!).

Adam I agree with you as well. Its not that I allow people that are hypocrites to get away with their statements. I call them out. The concern more is that when your in a position, like a church leader, and you have the ability and power to command people, you should take great caution to "preaching" these issues if you, yourself, have problems with the issues. Like anyone in power, they feel that they are invincible and that they will not get caught. All it takes is a little work and anything can be found.

As for your comment on Organized religion, this is a issue. Religion, in my humble opinion, is completely bias and no matter what you believe or not, someone else will. This means that even if you feel that you are in the majority, someone is going to disagree. I agree though.

The other problem is that we, as a society, have made it harder for people to sift through the BS and determine what is right from wrong. You have one guy who tells you that being gay is a damnation while others I do not believe this (or practice). The idea of being open minded is endangered within this society.

Church officials should stay away from sayings like: Do not as I do, but as I say.

I agree that leaders in a church need to try their hardest to live what they preach. But the fact that they can't, and neither can me or you, is the whole purpose of the grace of God. In the end, Haggard is no better (or worse) than any of us. We all live with hypocrisy in our lives. I am not saying I am a huge fan of Haggard, but I will say that at least I respect he owned up to it (yes, even if it was after he was caught), and didn't try and spin the whole thing like *cough* Clinton (and yes, I am a fan of Bill, so don't label me a conservative anti-Clinton).

or University of Phoenix . . .

this is embarrassing, but I just LOL'ed at my desk and now all my co-workers are looking at me...

even more embarrassing, one of my friends is a professor there.

Megachurch 2.0! Now with less homo!

Now with less homo!

Would that be gay-light or gay-free? Is there a USDA daily allowance of gay?

Provides less than 2% of your RDA of homo.

Jesus turning water into wine I'll buy. But gay into straight? I can only suspend disbelief so much.

Chuckle... Obleo has the comment of the day...

Jesus turning water into wine I'll buy. But gay into straight? I can only suspend disbelief so much.

That's funny.

I don't know if you're thinking along the same lines that I am, but I agree that this is tragic. The tragedy is this poor man, who was himself duped by the same propaganda that he spews, was forced into thinking that the sexual feelings that he has for other men is evil. Can you imagine what that must feel like?

Not being gay, I can't say for sure, but what he has (and is) going through could be worse that not having your parents accept that you're gay. I feel sorry for this man, and ironically, I'll be praying for him.

It was the acting-out situations where things took place. It wasn't a constant thing.

That's like me saying I'm not a smoker when I don't have a cigarette in my mouth. I quit around 15-20 times a day!

I remember seeing a speech somewhere with one of the founders of Exodus (tagline: freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ). He and another member were on a plane to go give a talk somewhere. They just looked into one anothers eyes. One said, "I love you." The other said, "I love you, too." They never gave that speech.

In 1979, Exodus International's co-founder Michael Bussee left the group with Gary Cooper, a co-organizer. Bussee and Cooper held a life commitment ceremony.

Exactly, ignoblus. You're not a smoker when you don't have a cigarette in your mouth and Haggard's not gay when he doesn't have a...

--sorry, just caught myself right before I violated some Newsvine Code of Honor rule...

The tragedy is this poor man, who was himself duped by the same propaganda that he spews, was forced into thinking that the sexual feelings that he has for other men is evil.

I was thinking 'tragic' along those lines. The man could have been much happier and content with the world - and still can be - if he chose to accept himself as he is, but he instead chose a brand of merciless religious funamentalism that insists sexual impulses are evil.

Can you imagine what that must feel like?

Imagining is all I could do. I've had problems in my life, but nothing like having the kind of schism Mr. Haggard must have had.

Yeah, it takes three weeks of counseling to "turn" him straight, but only one steamy night to turn him back...

One of my favorite jokes (warning: a little off color, and likely to offend some) goes:

So I was @!$%#ing this guy up the ass, when he turned his head and said, "I love you." What a fag!

So I was @!$%#ing this guy up the ass, when he turned his head and said, "I love you." What a fag!

You might not be aware of this, but for most of Western civilization only the "bottom" was "gay".

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/twain.asp

"Any orphan line with even a hint of drollness is subject to being put in his [Twain's] mouth."

Oh boy, I read that as "An orphan with even a hint of drollness is subject to being put in Twain's mouth" and I got really frightened. But then I re-read it and was happy.

Haha me too Ansab, I didn't click it cuz I was afraid I'd learn Mark Twain liked to fellate orphans and I just don't wanna know that if it's true. Glad you commented and I reread it.

Droll orphans! That's totally different!

Just one?

Not going to happen, Brian, as he's apparently following the obviously non-self-serving advice of the "oversight board" and moving away from the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah that is Colorado Springs.

Wouldn't it be cool if he moved to San Fransisco?

I am pretty sure this article is making me gayer by the minute.

got any meth?

Nice reference to Jesus Camp Zaki!

well @!$%#, I forgot it's 2007. Ted Haggard Bashing Gays - from JESUS CAMP the Movie (YouTube)

I suggest not drinking while watching this clip, because you might go PFFFFFFFFFFFFFT BAHAHAAHHA.

My God that was teh gay!

What are you implying? The binary of gay/straight (oh, with a few bisexuals) is so patently false it's amazing how long it has has survived. Kinsey proved that bisexuality is the majority, with straight and gay being a combined minority.

No...but...according to that test I am 100% gay, placing me solidly in the "too gay" category!! How am I ever going to tell my husband?!!

Oh, heavens to Betsy...does anyone have the number of this place so I can get cured, too?

Apparently I'm 30% gay. The test told me to loosen up because women these days like "softer" men.

Take it for what you will...

You guys are making me feel sooo uncomfortable. I thought the damned thing was fixed. Ah, well...at least my husband likes lesbians...

46% gay! My girlfriend will be so disappointed, she only loves me because she thinks I'm queer!

Celestina, the "gay meter" has this animation where it swings to 100% for everyone... I think you forgot to hit the "show me the results" button (or whatever it was labeled) at that point. Try it again.

Ah, well...at least my husband likes lesbians...

Everyone's husband likes lesbians.

That test sucks. Many of the questions don't have the right choices for me. For instance it asks if you would prefer to meet you favorite footballer or be your favorite footballer. I don't have a favorite footballer. When it asks if you would shave your head the choices are 'yes of course' and 'no never'. I might shave my head under the right circumstances. Oddly enough, it did correctly peg me as 100% robosexual.

vas--
Oh, ok. *blushes and shrinks* Thanks. Now I am only 73% gay. Whew! I reckon I don't need to get cured yet, right?

How gay do I have to be to get more than a massage and actually smoke the Meth?

Celestina, I almost did the same thing :)

I just took the test again, but this time the woman's version. As it turns out, I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

What a stupid test. I think it just told me that I'm so unbelievably straight that it makes me I'm gay. I surrender.

1/3 gay. It's probably my abs.

Walt is 30% Gay!

I knew the cat question would skew the results. I'm 30%, just like Dennis! Yoo hooooo! Deeeenniiiss! *winks*

Yup, perfect abs are pretty gay.