Some US Muslims Say Suicide Attacks OK

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{"commentId":725130,"authorDomain":"witchofthenorth"}
Most U.S. Muslims Reject Suicide Bombings

I really hope this is a surprise to nobody.

{"commentId":725130,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"witchofthenorth"}
  • 8 votes
Reply#1 - Tue May 22, 2007 11:12 AM EDT
{"commentId":725179,"authorDomain":"AsymptoticToZero"}

It isn't a surprise, but it's also not very reassuring. And the title of the article is just sad in that it's such a transparent attempt to spin this positively. It's along the lines of "Only One Percent of Mothers Support Poking Babies in the Eyes with Needles".

{"commentId":725179,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"AsymptoticToZero"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Tue May 22, 2007 11:23 AM EDT
{"commentId":725404,"authorDomain":"economist"}
BartlebyDeleted
{"commentId":725569,"authorDomain":"witchofthenorth"}

Interesting headline change AP :-/

{"commentId":725569,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"witchofthenorth"}
  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Tue May 22, 2007 1:20 PM EDT
{"commentId":725740,"authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}

Hmmm, yes, quite a bit more accurate.

{"commentId":725740,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}
  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Tue May 22, 2007 2:20 PM EDT
{"commentId":726082,"authorDomain":"globalized"}
"We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam.

I think the point is that those that support and execute suicide bombings don't view the casualties as innocent. Thus, not a contradiction of Islam. Bin Ladin's thinking is that if US taxpayer dollars fund wars and occupation, then US tax payers are fair game.

Our Vulnerable Democracy

{"commentId":726082,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"globalized"}
  • 3 votes
#1.5 - Tue May 22, 2007 3:47 PM EDT
{"commentId":733298,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}

It sounds like these muslims may be less violent towards civilians than most Americans

The truly ironic thing is that when Americans in general were asked whether it was ok to intentionally attack civilians.

5% said often
19% said Sometimes
27% said rarely.
Less than half said Never. For some reason the poll about muslims is getting a lot more press than the poll about Americans.

{"commentId":733298,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Fri May 25, 2007 7:43 AM EDT
{"commentId":733331,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
Think it can't happen in the U.S.? The fact that 25% of young U.S. muslims state that suicide bombing is acceptable "to defend their religion" in some circumstances is horrifying. What the hell does that mean, "to defend their religion?"

Of course the total overall was 1% often 7% sometime 5% rarely and 78% Never that said it might be ok to intentionally bomb civilians

Hmmm, yes, quite a bit more accurate

Actually the headline isnt particularly accurate, since they did not say any particular suicide bombings are ok but that they might be under certain circumstances.

If the headline is accurate then it would also be accurate to have the following headline:

Most Americans think its OK to intentionally attack civilians.

{"commentId":733331,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Fri May 25, 2007 8:04 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":725283,"authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}

Yeah, both ends of the conclusion spectrum are correct -- most Muslims reject this stuff, but a disturbingly large number of others have opinions I am concerned about -- 25% seem to think it's OK to terrorize people with death, and 60% believe it was somebody else than the actual (Arab) hijackers who actually carried out the attacks.

Part of the problem is that many people in the US believe that we are in fact at war with Islam, and I know some of these people, they really believe this. They equate Muslims = terrorists, and I hold the Bush Administration at fault for not doing something to discourage this thinking. See my posts under the article on Osama's own words regarding the problem of conflating these two issues.

Part of the problem is in our actions abroad -- who we support and who and how we disagree. One of my Muslim friends, a native-born American and one who disagrees with al Qaeda strongly, says, "when we disagree with Israel we issue statements to the newspapers and go to the UN, but when we disagree with a Muslim country they get only the fist. Why does that have to be that way?"

{"commentId":725283,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#2 - Tue May 22, 2007 11:56 AM EDT
{"commentId":725536,"authorDomain":"jaawalla"}
One in four younger U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances

What if you were to replace the word "religion" with "country"?

And what if you were defending your country from uninvited occupiers who have killed hundreds of thousands of your countrymen and, on numerous accounts, raped your mothers and sisters?

And what if the country under all this turmoil was the U.S.? How far would you go to protect it? Think about what you would do if America (or your home country) were to be invaded by the most powerful military on Earth. What would you do? Now...are you surprised that others are doing the same?

I am in no way advocating suicide bombings. And I'm not trying to bash the troops. I just wanted to turn this issue on its head, because it seems that many people have a hard time imagining Muslims (or is it all brown people in general?) defending themselves from what they perceive to be an attack. Is their religion under attack? I don't think so. Is their country under attack? There's a good chance that it is or has been bombed in the past. Why do we still feign surprise when suicide attacks happen? Yes, we can agree that they're horrendous and insane tactics, but are they really that unbelievable?

{"commentId":725536,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"jaawalla"}
  • 6 votes
Reply#3 - Tue May 22, 2007 1:11 PM EDT
{"commentId":725939,"authorDomain":"rightenough"}

I agree that blowback has a lot to do with this. If nothing was wrong, why would anyone want to blow themselves up? I don't think extremists want to blow themselves up (and blow Americans up) because they 'hate our freedom.' That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

And, we live in free country. That's what makes America great right? So don't you think Muslims, like anyone else, are allowed to think whatever they want?

{"commentId":725939,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"rightenough"}
  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Tue May 22, 2007 3:13 PM EDT
{"commentId":726263,"authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}

In a sense, some of them DO hate our freedom, because they perceive it as a license for homosexuality, adultery, immodest women, etc. The most extreme among them (the Taliban, and the Saudi Wahabi sect, among others) do feel that we should submit to fundamentalist Sharia, which from our viewpoint would be removing many of our freedoms. But these people are in the great minority within Islam.

don't you think Muslims, like anyone else, are allowed to think whatever they want?

Yes, within the limits of Clear and Present Danger.

{"commentId":726263,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}
  • 2 votes
#3.2 - Tue May 22, 2007 4:53 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":726229,"authorDomain":"chindi"}

From that same article

Overall, Muslim Americans have a generally positive view of the larger society. Most say their communities are excellent or good places to live. A large majority of Muslim Americans believe that hard work pays off in this society. Fully 71% agree that most people who want to get ahead in the United States can make it if they are willing to work hard. The survey shows that although many Muslims are relative newcomers to the U.S., they are highly assimilated into American society. On balance, they believe that Muslims coming to the U.S. should try and adopt American customs, rather than trying to remain distinct from the larger society. And by nearly two-to-one (63%-32%) Muslim Americans do not see a conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.

I guess its easy just to put up the negative and ignore the positive

{"commentId":726229,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"chindi"}
  • 6 votes
Reply#4 - Tue May 22, 2007 4:45 PM EDT
{"commentId":726317,"authorDomain":"globalized"}

That's the message we need to embrace. I feel bad for the majority of moderates that are distrusted because of a minority view.

I would really love to know what factors are contributing to the negative response. What exactly is a "younger Muslim". Weird way of stating something that should be relatively clear i.e. 18-25 year olds said and 25 to 35 year olds responded...

{"commentId":726317,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"globalized"}
  • 4 votes
#4.1 - Tue May 22, 2007 5:08 PM EDT
{"commentId":726340,"authorDomain":"witchofthenorth"}

Exactly chindi - as I pointed out they changed the headline to go more negative.

He said most supporters of the attacks likely assumed the context was a fight against occupation

It seems reasonable to me that a minority might see suicide bombing as a reasonable defense against the superior US military in Iraq - that's as a theory you support, when answering a survey in the comfort of your home. That's a long, long way away from strapping on a bomb and going to the mall with it ...or even supporting someone who would do such a thing.

I have read many comments from Americans of all stripes here on Newsvine that supported the idea of individuals taking arms against the US government under certain situations - that doesn't mean it's an immediate threat.

To me they are the same kind of thing.

{"commentId":726340,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"witchofthenorth"}
  • 2 votes
#4.2 - Tue May 22, 2007 5:16 PM EDT
{"commentId":726362,"authorDomain":"globalized"}

And I don't know that the survey actually says against the US government. My immediate reaction was that these "younger" folks were making a political statement about the Palestinian issue.

{"commentId":726362,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"globalized"}
  • 3 votes
#4.3 - Tue May 22, 2007 5:22 PM EDT
{"commentId":726363,"authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}

Interesting source of Muslim info and thought-process for me is Qunoot Foundation, which is an organization of and by young Shia in the US. Pretty good site, and good podcast.

{"commentId":726363,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"jamesmirick"}
  • 1 vote
#4.4 - Tue May 22, 2007 5:22 PM EDT
{"commentId":727948,"authorDomain":"globalized"}

Great link Jim. Thanks.

{"commentId":727948,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"globalized"}
    #4.5 - Wed May 23, 2007 11:01 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":726820,"authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}

    It may be a bit 'different', but I'd like to respond to the article with a short flash story I wrote a few years ago when the Iraq war was just beginning.

    Just as a reminder....

    Participation

    "Why are you here?"

    The boy was barely thirteen, yet his face was dark and aged. "They killed my entire family in the first week. I ask for what is due."

    The leader studied the boy carefully for signs of weakness and found none. "Do you understand what you ask? From this action, there is no return."

    "I understand." The boy's face was stone, his eyes full of fire.

    The leader stroked his beard and considered. "Return tomorrow an hour past dawn. Cut your hair and wash yourself first. Dress plainly - and speak to no one."

    The boy nodded and quickly left the room.

    ****

    When he arrived at the house in the early morning, the boy now looked fresh and young. The eyes, however, were still disturbing.

    The leader of the group nodded in approval. "Much better. You will have your chance. Go with Mustafa into the other room. He will instruct and prepare you."

    The boy bowed his head and obeyed.

    Two hours later, a quiet boy rose from his prayers and walked toward a security checkpoint. Before the soldiers could react, he suddenly ran toward them, pulling the trigger of the powerful bomb he wore under his clothes.

    The End

    {"commentId":726820,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"adventurebooks"}
      Reply#5 - Tue May 22, 2007 8:34 PM EDT
      {"commentId":727859,"authorDomain":"Rebecca-Yarowsky"}

      That headline angered me so much that I felt I had to shoot the AP an email (grrrr):

      The Associated Press has shown itself to be a purveyor of not only misleading but also dangerous information. I refer to Alan Fram's article whose headline screams:

      Some U.S. Muslims Say Suicide Attacks OK

      Reading the article, one discovers that "[w]hile nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely."

      Furthermore, the statement that "most supporters of the attacks likely assumed the context was a fight against occupation - a term Muslims often use to describe the conflict with Israel" also misleads.
      I call the "conflict with Israel" an "occupation" and I'm not Islamic.

      Unfortunately, too many Americans read headlines only -- a fact of which the AP is no doubt aware. Your abject reporting is unworthy of the term "journalism". However, as a tool of pure, unadulterated propaganda, your effort certainly deserves kudos. Bravo!

      {"commentId":727859,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"Rebecca-Yarowsky"}
      • 3 votes
      Reply#6 - Wed May 23, 2007 10:33 AM EDT
      {"commentId":728341,"authorDomain":"chindi"}

      So much for a "liberal" MSM.

      {"commentId":728341,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"chindi"}
      • 1 vote
      #6.1 - Wed May 23, 2007 1:08 PM EDT
      {"commentId":733340,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}

      Imaginge what the outcry would be if the AP ran the headline:

      "Most Americans think Intentionally Attacking Civilians OK"

      When asked whether it is ever ok to intionally attack civilians through bombings or other ways less than half said never.

      {"commentId":733340,"threadId":"105956","contentId":"732852","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
      • 2 votes
      #6.2 - Fri May 25, 2007 8:09 AM EDT
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