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Secessionists Meeting in Tennessee

Wed Oct 3, 2007 3:15 AM EDT
us-news, new-england, movement, secessionist-movement
Bill Poovey, Associated Press
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CHATTANOOGA — In an unlikely marriage of desire to secede from the United States, two advocacy groups from opposite political traditions — New England and the South — are sitting down to talk.

Tired of foreign wars and what they consider right-wing courts, the Middlebury Institute wants liberal states like Vermont to be able to secede peacefully.

That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.

"We believe that an independent South, or Hawaii, Alaska, or Vermont would be better able to serve the interest of everybody, regardless of race or ethnicity," said Michael Hill of Killen, Ala., president of the League of the South.

Separated by hundreds of miles and divergent political philosophies, the Middlebury Institute and the League of the South are hosting a two-day Secessionist Convention starting Wednesday in Chattanooga.

They expect to attract supporters from California, Alaska and Hawaii, inviting anyone who wants to dissolve the Union so states can save themselves from an overbearing federal government.

If allowed to go their own way, New Englanders "probably would allow abortion and have gun control," Hill said, while Southerners "would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now."

The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly prohibit secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

Vermont, one of the nation's most liberal states, has become a hotbed for liberal secessionists, a fringe movement that gained new traction because of the Iraq war, rising oil prices and the formation of several pro-secession groups.

Thomas Naylor, the founder of one of those groups, the Second Vermont Republic, said the friendly relationship with the League of the South doesn't mean everyone shares all the same beliefs.

But Naylor, a retired Duke University professor, said the League of the South shares his group's opposition to the federal government and the need to pursue secession.

"It doesn't matter if our next president is Condoleeza (Rice) or Hillary (Clinton), it is going to be grim," said Naylor, adding that there are secessionist movements in more than 25 states, including Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas.

The Middlebury Institute, based in Cold Spring, N.Y., was started in 2005. Its followers, disillusioned by the Iraq war and federal imperialism, share the idea of states becoming independent republics. They contend their movement is growing.

The first North American Separatist Convention was held last fall in Vermont, which, unlike most Southern states, supports civil unions. Voters there elected a socialist to the U.S. Senate.

Middlebury director Kirpatrick Sale said Hill offered to sponsor the second secessionist convention, but the co-sponsor arrangement was intended to show that "the folks up north regard you as legitimate colleagues."

"It bothers me that people have wrongly declared them to be racists," Sale said.

The League of the South says it is not racist, but proudly displays a Confederate Battle Flag on its banner.

Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, which monitors hate groups, said the League of the South "has been on our list close to a decade."

"What is remarkable and really astounding about this situation is we see people and institutions who are supposedly on the progressive left rubbing shoulders with bona fide white supremacists," Potok said.

Sale said the League of the South "has not done or said anything racist in its 14 years of existence," and that the Southern Poverty Law Center is not credible.

"They call everybody racists," Sale said. "There are, no doubt, racists in the League of the South, and there are, no doubt, racists everywhere."

Harry Watson, director of the Center For the Study of the American South and a history professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, said it was a surprise to see The Middlebury Institute conferring with the League of the South, "an organization that's associated with a cause that many of us associate with the preservation of slavery."

He said the unlikely partnering "represents the far left and far right of American politics coming together."

___

On the Net:

Middlebury Institute: http://middleburyinstitute.org/

League of the South: http://www.leagueofthesouth.net

Second Vermont Republic: http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

Southern Poverty Law Center: http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Bill Poovey's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: United States , Iraq , Chattanooga
  • Public Discussion (15)
Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

Wake up! The Revolution is here! Remember what happened, last time states tried to secede from the union. Is this the break up of the Republic? Or a reformation, back to the true principles of the founders? That is the only thing to do, if this country is to be saved. I can't say I expected this in my lifetime, but I did expect it. Bush will go down in History now, as the president who tore our country apart.

  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 4:03 AM EDT
Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

"It is a momentous truth, and happily of universal impression on the public mind, that our safety rests on the preservation of our Union." --Thomas Jefferson: to Rhode Island Assembly, 1801. ME 10:262

"Certain States from local and occasional discontents might attempt to secede from the Union. This is certainly possible; and would be befriended by this regular organization [of the Union into States]. But it is not probable that local discontents can spread to such an extent as to be able to face the sound parts of so extensive an Union; and if ever they should reach the majority, they would then become the regular government, acquire the ascendency in Congress and be able to redress their own grievances by laws peaceably and constitutionally passed. And even the States in which local discontents might engender a commencement of fermentation, would be paralyzed and self-checked by that very division into parties into which we have fallen, into which all States must fall wherein men are at liberty to think, speak, and act freely according to the diversities of their individual conformations, and which are, perhaps, essential to preserve the purity of the government by the censorship which these parties habitually exercise over each other." --Thomas Jefferson to A. L. C. Destutt de Tracy, 1811. ME 13:20

"A spirit which should... countenance the advocates for a dissolution of the Union and for setting in hostile array one portion of our citizens against another... would prove indeed that it is high time for every friend to his country, in a firm and decided manner, to express his sentiments of the measures which government has adopted to avert the impending evils, unhesitatingly to pledge himself for the support of the laws, liberties and independence of his country; and... to resolve that for the preservation of the Union, the support and enforcement of the laws, and for the resistance and repulsion of every enemy, they will hold themselves in readiness and put at stake if necessary their lives and fortunes on the pledge of their sacred honor." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Connecticut Republicans, 1809. ME 16:365

"I can scarcely contemplate a more incalculable evil than the breaking of the Union into two or more parts." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1792. ME 8:346

"I regret that I am now to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776 to acquire self-government and happiness to their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be that I live not to weep over it. If they would but dispassionately weigh the blessings they will throw away against an abstract principle more likely to be effected by union than by scission, they would pause before they would perpetrate this act of suicide on themselves and of treason against the hopes of the world." --Thomas Jefferson to John Holmes, 1820. ME 15:250

"It is time for all good citizens to rally round the constituted authorities by a public expression of their determination to support the laws and government of their choice, and to frown into silence all disorganizing movements. Strong in our numbers, our position and resources, we can never be endangered but by schisms at home." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Citizens of Wilmington, 1809. ME 16:335

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 4:03 AM EDT
Reply
Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

This was on the front page for the shortest time of any Article ever, less then a half hour, and Newsvine took it down.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 4:13 AM EDT
jfxgillis

Z:

Britney's kids got more interest.

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 8:30 AM EDT
Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

Britney who? I have an ironclad alibi! •·¿•·

    #2.2 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 8:57 AM EDT
    Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

    Like I said, this was an AP article put up by Newsvine at 2:30 am, and taken down by 3:10 am, Oct 3. Who had a chance to see it?

      #2.3 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 9:04 AM EDT
      jfxgillis

      Z:

      I'd guess that you clicking on/voting for it it wasn't enough to hold back the tide of Britney's kids.

      NV didn't "take it down," it seemed to drop a slot from "Top Story" to "Top Wire," which is where I saw it.

      • 1 vote
      #2.4 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 9:36 AM EDT
      Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

      I didn't mean "taken down", like removed from Newsvine, Just as the main front page story with the most exposer. Yes, BS usually stays up longer, thats Britney S., and the important stories have to get what they can.

      • 2 votes
      #2.5 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 9:50 AM EDT
      Reply
      Infohack

      I've pondered whether any type of major secession could happen in the modern US. The problem, as I see it, is we're no longer neatly divided into "north" vs. "south"; red states and blue states are not divided into geographically cohesive blocs. And even within states there are largely blue urban reigons surrounded by rural red zones. I don't think you could get a consensus of views in an area much bigger than a county.

        Reply#3 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:40 PM EDT
        geo.........

        "The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes."
        -- Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter,1952
        .................AND YOU CAN'T VOTE THEM IN OR OUT !!

        • 1 vote
        Reply#4 - Wed Oct 3, 2007 5:39 PM EDT
        Weylin Lighteagle

        I was born and raised in the south but I have spent a lot of time in the New England states of Vermont , New Hampshire and Maine. I found people who live there to be very nice and down to earth people like many of those in the south. They are not easily fooled and independent minded and do not be so easily fooled as to follow the herd over the cliff! It is plain to see that politicians in D.C. are all a bunch of traitors selling this country down the drain and they are all for sale to the highest corporate bidder for most part. Many reporters speculate how the so called Bush legacy will be written historically. Unless they tell a pack of feel good lies Bush's legacy will go down in history and be remembered like December 7th 1941 a date that will live in INFAMY! He has turned this country into a land of chaos and increased poverty about 100% percent! Every word he says is nothing but a pack of lies that only the senile or the crooked would tend to believe ! The federal government is in total defunct and out of control corrupt wise and over 9 trillion dollars in debt thanks to GW BUSH's visions of grandeur and desire to be the next Alexander the Great! Its time for those of us you are US citizens to start looking out for ourselves and the futures of our children unless we want them to wind up reduced down economic and living standard wise like some war torn village in Africa! AS far as what the southern poverty law center has to say about any secession groups all they have ever been is a bunch of lazy carpet baggers to damn sorry to go out and get a real job and do a days work and Morris Dees has made his living like some kind of ambulance chaser lawyer going around and sueing everybody that he deems not politically correct establishment butt kissers and then like a political spin doctor he labels them as racist of some kind! I would not pay any attention to him or his loudmouth KGB clone investigator!

        • 1 vote
        Reply#5 - Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:49 PM EDT
        Jameel-191557

        This will end in fire! The southwest is being invaded by mexico and there are whole cities where american's can't live without the threat of violence not to mention the low level conflict's that are already talking place in some of our major cities like Los Angeles. In the near future there is going to be a massive civil war it's just a matter of time, the federal goverment refuses too stop the invasion from mexico and in all likelyhood will and has taken the side of the invader's. It should be painfully obvious by know that Bush the corporate big wigs and the federal goverment have been giving american's the middle finger and will continue to do so.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#6 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 3:32 PM EDT
        Jameel-191557

        This will end in fire! The southwest is being invaded by mexico and there are whole cities where american's can't live without the threat of violence not to mention the low level conflict's that are already talking place in some of our major cities like Los Angeles. In the near future there is going to be a massive civil war it's just a matter of time, the federal goverment refuses too stop the invasion from mexico and in all likelyhood will and has taken the side of the invader's. It should be painfully obvious by know that Bush the corporate big wigs and the federal goverment have been giving american's the middle finger and will continue to do so.

          Reply#7 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 3:35 PM EDT
          breelaboyDeleted
          brianalamptonDeleted
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