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Saying the time is now for a Palestinian state, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Monday prodded Israel and the Palestinians to agree at a U.S.-sponsored conference this fall on how and when to start formal peace talks.
In one of her strongest statements yet on the issue, Rice declared that creation of a Palestinian state is a key U.S. interest and urged the two sides to drop contentious demands and reach consensus on a substantive joint statement ahead of the international conference.
"Frankly, it's time for the establishment of a Palestinian state," Rice told a news conference with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who she saw on the second of a four-day intense Middle East shuttle diplomacy mission.
"The United States sees the establishment of a Palestinian state and a two-state solution as absolutely essential for the future, not just of Palestinians and Israelis but also for the Middle East and indeed to American interests," she said.
"That's really a message that I think only I can deliver," Rice said, explaining her mission to prepare for the conference to be held in Annapolis, Md. as early as late November.
The secretary is facing daunting challenges in trying to bring the two sides close enough to make the conference worthwhile.
Rice, who expects to return to the region at least once before the conference takes place, played down the chances for any breakthroughs before she traveled here.
Rice met with Israeli officials on Sunday and will see both sides again on Wednesday after visiting Egypt on Tuesday and finally traveling to London to meet Jordan's King Abdullah II in a bid to build support for the meeting among skeptical Arab nations.
In her talks in Jerusalem and the West Bank, she is seeking to bridge wide gaps between Israel and the Palestinians over the declaration to be endorsed in Annapolis that President Bush hopes will lead to negotiations for a final settlement of the long-running conflict.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said he does not see the document as a prerequisite for the conference. He wants it as vague as possible on critical so-called "final status issues" like the borders of a Palestinian state, the status of disputed Jerusalem, Israeli settlements and Palestinian refugees.
The Palestinians, meanwhile, have said they will not attend the conference without a document that contains details on these matters as well as a specific timeline for their resolution. Arab states share the Palestinian concerns.
"No doubt that before we go to (the conference), the document will be ready," said Abbas, whose authority has been limited to the West Bank since the militant Hamas movement seized control of the Gaza Strip in June.
"The negotiations should not be open-ended, but subject to a certain time period," he added.
Standing next to Abbas in the West Bank city of Ramallah, Rice insisted the conference will be "serious and substantive."
"We frankly have better things to do than invite people to Annapolis for a photo op," she said in the first public confirmation from a U.S. official that Washington has chosen the Maryland capital as the venue for the meeting.
Speaking to reporters at her Jerusalem hotel after seeing Abbas, Rice declined to reveal her private discussions with Israeli and Palestinian officials but suggested that neither side would get its way in their demands for the joint statement.
"I am not certain that a timetable that says we have to complete X by Y time is where we want to go," she said when asked about the Palestinian demand for deadlines.
"We're talking about ways to demonstrate continued momentum if and when they begin formal negotiations but we haven't come to any conclusions at this point," Rice said.
She also said the joint statement "does not have to be detailed in order to be serious (or) substantive."
At the same time, she said that despite Israeli reservations, the document would have to include references to the final status issues.
"If it's going to address the establishment of a Palestinian state, then it has to address core issues," Rice said. "You do have to have enough that is concrete so that people know that we're not just starting out with the general principle that everyone would like to have a Palestinian state."
She also defended the plan for the conference, which some critics believe Bush called prematurely when he announced in July that it would be held in the fall — a year before the next presidential elections.
"I understand as well as anybody that there are risks to announcing a meeting and then doing the hard work to get it prepared," Rice said. But the other side of that ... something had to spark their active and intensive engagement, something had to spark the region to take advantage of what was a slowly opening historic opportunity."
Palestinian officials had expressed disappointment with Rice's less-than-optimistic comments on Sunday and in her meeting with Abbas she sought to reassure the Palestinians of the U.S. commitment to peace.
"We have come a long way," she said. "We have got quite a long way to go, but we are not going to tire until I have given it my last ounce of energy and my last moment in office."
Also Monday, the Israeli and Palestinian teams charged with drafting the pre-conference document were to meet in Jerusalem, Qureia's office said. The teams had met only once before.
At the same time, Olmert hinted Monday that he is ready to share control of Jerusalem, saying for the first time that Israel could do without controlling some of the holy city's outlying Arab neighborhoods.
© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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 | Rice Begins Long Process in Middle East | Associated Press | Sun Oct 14 | 9 |
| Rice Sees 'Moment of Opportunity' | Associated Press | Wed Oct 17 | 0 |
| Abbas: Israel Hampers Progress on Peace | Associated Press | Wed Oct 17 | 0 |
 | Map of Israel Shown in Palestinian Colors | CNSNews.com | Thu Oct 18 | 1 |
| Mideast Summit Faces Huge Challenges | Associated Press | Mon Oct 15 | 0 |
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8.4
1.9
{"commentId":1100017,"authorDomain":"devoinregress"}
Yeah... Talk about too little too late.
{"commentId":1100017,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"devoinregress"}
- 4 votes
#2 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:10 AM EDT{"commentId":1100051,"authorDomain":"evilgenius"}
I'll belive it when I see it.
{"commentId":1100051,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"evilgenius"}
- 4 votes
#3 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:22 AM EDT{"commentId":1100070,"authorDomain":"partisanhack"}
"We frankly have better things to do than invite people to Annapolis for a photo op," she said.
Like sitting for a photo op for Vladmir Putin to pick apart U.S. policy for all the world to see?
I can see why she's considered such a charmer...
{"commentId":1100070,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"partisanhack"}
- 2 votes
#4 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:30 AM EDT{"commentId":1100131,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
arafat screwed up when he refused the offer to get control of 98% of palistinian(er jordan) territory.
The time has been right for a long time now..
It would be utterly amazing, like jesus returning himself, if this administration has anything to do with palistine becoming a state.
{"commentId":1100131,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
- 1 vote
#5 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:47 AM EDT{"commentId":1100247,"authorDomain":"hudaalsawa"}
Oh yes, quite a fool Arafat was to give up, what did they call it, the "generous offer"....please. Barrack apparently made a "generous offer" offering somewhere between 85-95% of land in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. However, Palestinians were not allowed to control borders, air space, or water; and there was to be no dismantling of Israeli settlements and roads. It's about CONTROL. As member of the Israeli peace group Gush-Shalom says, "prisoners may occupy 95 percent of prison space, but it is the other 5 percent that determines who is in control." In addition, they were offered no access to holy sites, no solution to the issue of millions of Palestinian refugees. I'm am not a huge fan of Arafat, but you only echo the staunchly pro-Israeil propaganda machine to blame everything on him.
Most Palestinians are only asking for compliance with international law on Israel's side, parts a Jerusalem, and a formally recongnized state that is only under their control.
Let's hope these peace talks finally develop a two-state solution tolerable for both sides.
{"commentId":1100247,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"hudaalsawa"}
- 2 votes
#6 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:34 AM EDT{"commentId":1100556,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Concerning Jerusalem, for example, he said it would be enough to declare that west Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel and east Jerusalem the capital of Palestine. The line of division would then be determined in negotiations.
This is a bad idea.
The Palestinians should make another city their capital.
As long as Israel promises access an protection of their holy places.
The city would have no significance if it were not Jewish to begin with ...So what's the problem?
Trade this[Jerusalem] for some other better terms-an get on with your [Palestinians] lives already.
{"commentId":1100556,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1100580,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
eg. As in ......keep all of Jerusalem an keep all your settlements inside it- If you like.
{"commentId":1100580,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1104944,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}
Actually Jerusalem has been a non-Jewish Palestinian city for the last nearly 2 thousand years - between 135AD and 1967 AD to be precise.
Indeed actual Jewish rule over Jerusalem (originally conquered by the Israelites in about 1000 BC with the genocidal complete extermination of the whole population) has only been for about 500 years in the last 3,000 years - about 1,000-586 BC and 165-63 BC to be precise (see: "Zionism, Occupation, Palestinian Genocide. "Jerusalem Madonna". Mother & Child": link ).
Actually LONDON (Londinium) was founded by the Romans in 47AD who finally abandoned it in circa 450-500 AD. i.e. the Romans founded London, brought roads, aqueducts, language, culture, commerce etc etc and ruled it for about 5 centuries of the last 20. Londinium to be returned to Romans, the Brits kicked out and put in Concentration Camps like the Palestinians?
My family was ethnically cleansed by the Nazis in WW2 - our homes and lands are still occupied by interlopers. There should be zero tolerance for ANY racism and genocide.
{"commentId":1104944,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1105133,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
As long as Israel promises access an protection of their holy places. The city would have no significance if it were not Jewish to begin with ...So what's the problem?
Trade this[Jerusalem] for some other better terms-an get on with your [Palestinians] lives already.
Before the West Bank and Jerusalem were entirely in Israeli hands they were under Arab control (not a "Palestine" of course..but under Arab control none-the-less). They did not allow access to holy places to all religions...)
Since the Israelis took control of these areas, access to holy places has been guaranteed...and is ongoing.
{"commentId":1105133,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1107050,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}
They were banned from going there because of the atrocities committed in 1948. You forgot to mention that Krishna.
The vast majority of the refugees (estimated at between 700,000 and 900,000) were, they say, forced to leave, first, as a result of clashes between Israelis and Palestinians, and then by the Arab-Israeli war, in which a political-military strategy of expulsion had been marked by several massacres. The inhabitants of 228 localities left under attack by Jewish troops, and in 41 cases they were EXPELLED by military force. In 90 other localities, the Palestinians were in a state of panic following the fall of a neighboring town or village, or in fear of an enemy attack, or because of rumors circulated by the Jewish army - particularly after the 9 April 1948 massacre of 250 inhabitants of Deir Yassin,
{"commentId":1107050,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
{"commentId":1107479,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
@Gideon Polya
Actually Jerusalem has been a non-Jewish Palestinian city for the last nearly 2 thousand years - between 135AD and 1967 AD to be precise.
Gideon-
Between you an I-
Is Jerusalem more important than finding a solution for all that your complaining about?
It would have NO importance -an may not even still exist ....if not for the
"Jewish presence" that made it significant for Islam an Christianity.
It is extremely important to Jews that they return there.
Christians have Bethlehem,Nazareth,Rome[Vatican] an Islam have Mecca.
What's your @#$* problem with giving the city to Israel.
If they [Israel] act as protectorate of the holy places an allow access to them.
Why let this screw up a better life for those you petition for?
Let it [Jerusalam] be traded for removal of settlements or something else needed for a productive new state for them.
"You can't always get what you want,but if you try,somtimes,you get what you need.... "
Do you really want peace an justice for the displaced .......or are you a Lukudnik turned inside out?
{"commentId":1107479,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1107540,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Actually LONDON (Londinium) was founded by the Romans in 47AD who finally abandoned it in circa 450-500 AD. i.e. the Romans founded London, brought roads, aqueducts, language, culture, commerce etc etc and ruled it for about 5 centuries of the last 20. Londinium to be returned to Romans, the Brits kicked out and put in Concentration Camps like the Palestinians
The Brits didn't kick anyone out-
They [Legions] left to defend Rome-
An those that remained intermarried until you couldn't tell who was who-
No offence,Gideon, but ......Don't @#!* over history.
{"commentId":1107540,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1100252,"authorDomain":"caesara"}
Who cares what Condi wants? And I agree with "talk about too little, too late", but maybe in a different way. We are way past catering to Likud. This has got to be dealt with fairly.
The only way is a single state solution. Cut the crap, and fantasies about weird constructs that will result in an unjust and unworkable "solution" that leaves Israel in total control of everything. Turning the the West Bank into another Gaza (essentially a large concentration camp) is the model they are probably working with.
{"commentId":1100252,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"caesara"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:35 AM EDT{"commentId":1100263,"authorDomain":"hudaalsawa"}
Actually, the bi-national state solution is very well-thought, and it makes a lot more sense than a two-state solution. However, I fear there is too much bad blood between Israelis and Palestinians for the bi-national solution to function properly.
{"commentId":1100263,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"hudaalsawa"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1105094,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Who cares what Condi wants? And I agree with "talk about too little, too late", but maybe in a different way. We are way past catering to Likud. This has got to be dealt with fairly.
Well-- you are certainly right about being way past dealing with Likud...for the simple reason that they have been out of power for a while now! (There would hardly be any point to dealing with them now-- rather, it would be more fruitful to deal with the parties currently in power!)
{"commentId":1105094,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1105147,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
The only way is a single state solution. Cut the crap, and fantasies about weird constructs that will result in an unjust and unworkable "solution" that leaves Israel in total control of everything.
Up until fairly recently Israel occupied all of Gaza and the West Bank-- area that many thought might become a "Palestine"-- if one were to ever be created. Israel had always refused to give up these areas until the Arabs made peace.
Recently however Israel unilaterally left Gaza....even the settlements in Gaza that were supposedly an "obstacle to peace' turned out not to be...now the Israelis no longer occupy Gaza...
{"commentId":1105147,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1107678,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
ARIEL SHARON (translated): After a great hesitations, I decided to leave the Likud. The Likud in its current format cannot lead Israel to its aims, to its national aims. I founded the Likud in order to serve a national idea, and to give hope to the people of Israel. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist there any more.
krishna-167929 Well-- you are certainly right about being way past dealing with Likud...for the simple reason that they have been out of power for a while now! (There would hardly be any point to dealing with them now-- rather, it would be more fruitful to deal with the parties currently in power!)
But he [Shraon] does not control Kadima anymore-
an it shows no signs of being any different than Likud lately.
Sort of like the Republicans and the Democrats in this country.
{"commentId":1107678,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1107898,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1108014,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Bandit:
Likud means unity
[Consolidate]. It's a mix of moderate, center-right factions and a few[?] hard core right factions who consolidated a few years back to have more clout in the knesset. Likud doesn't have a lot of power in Israel currently and they are torn between the moderates and right wingers presently.
Most people in this country haven't a clue what Likud represents as a party platform let alone what the state of contemporary Israeli politics is like.
Well....... Let's clue them, Bandit ......ok?
The Likud charter calls for the annexation and settlement of the entire Land of Israel, which comprises of the current territory of the State of Israel, as well as West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and the whole of Jerusalem.
Likud has in the past espoused hawkish policies towards the Palestinians, including opposition to Palestinian statehood and support of the Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. However, it has also been the party which carried out the first peace agreements with Arab states. For instance, in 1979, Likud Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, signed the Camp David Accords with Egyptian President Anwar al-Sadat, which returned the Sinai Peninsula (occupied by Israel in the Six-Day War of 1967) to Egypt in return for peace between the two countries. Yitzhak Shamir also granted some legitimacy to the Palestinians by meeting them at the ill-fated Madrid Conference following the Persian Gulf War in 1991. However, Shamir refused to concede the idea of a Palestinian state, and as a result was blamed by some (including U.S. Secretary of State James Baker) for the failure of the summit. Later, as Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu restated Likud's position of opposing Palestinian statehood, which after the Oslo Accords was largely accepted by the opposition Labor Party, even though the shape of any such state was not clear.
Following conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians in 2002, Israel's Likud-led government reoccupied Arab towns and refugee camps in West Bank, a position that remains unchanged today. In 2005 Ariel Sharon defied the recent tendencies of Likud and abandoned the "Greater Israel" policy of seeking to settle the West Bank and Gaza. Though re-elected Prime Minister on a platform of no unilateral withdrawals, Sharon carried out the Israeli unilateral disengagement plan, withdrawing from the Gaza Strip and demolishing the Israeli settlements there, as well as four settlements in the northern West Bank. Whilst an overwhelming majority of the Likud's membership opposed this policy, Sharon achieved the approval of this policy through the necessary government channels by firing all cabinet members who opposed the plan before the vote in order to assure a needed majority, and by submitting his plan to what Sharon called a "binding" vote in his party which he lost and yet later disregarded.
Ariel Sharon and the faction who supported his "Disengagement" proposals left the Likud party after the Disengagement and joined the new Kadima party which was itself founded by former Likud Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. This new party supports unilateral disengagement from most of the West Bank and the fixing of borders by the separation barrier. The basic premise of the policy is the view that the Israelis have no viable negotiating partner on the Palestinian side, and since they cannot remain in indefinite occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, Israel should unilaterally withdraw. If pursued, this further Disengagement will, according to many, ultimately mean allowing the creation a Palestinian state although smaller than most Palestinians are likely to accept. It is not known why Mr. Sharon did not create this new party before he carried out the Gaza Evacuation instead of after it.
Binyamin Netanyahu, the new rightist leader of Likud, and Silvan Shalom, the party's #2 ranking member, both supported (against the Likud charter) the Gaza Evacuation, however Mr. Netanyahu resigned his Ministerial post before the Gaza disengagement plan was executed.
Most current Likud members support the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and oppose Arab statehood and the disengagement from Gaza.
[edit] Future of Likud
The Likud is looking to bounce back to the forefront of the Israeli counsciousness due to the disillusion with Kadima on the war in Lebanon and its goals
EM>
{"commentId":1108014,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1108079,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Bandit Likud doesn't have a lot of power in Israel currently
To say Likud hasn't got a lot of power
after running the country almost exclusively since Begin in the 70's
is disingenuous ....at best [Rabin aside]
An the present party [Kadima] is a Likud spinoff.
An losing popularity because of Lebanon.
{"commentId":1108079,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1108217,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1108285,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Bandit
A very biased, editorialized, and misleading portrayal you've provided. You're welcome to your illusions of how Israeli politics works.
So- I don't need yours, I guess
{"commentId":1108285,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1108358,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1108458,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Recently however Israel unilaterally left Gaza....even the settlements in Gaza that were supposedly an "obstacle to peace' turned out not to be...now the Israelis no longer occupy Gaza...
Krishna:
The army [IDF] left Gaza.
The armed settlers are still very much there.
How would you feel if I told you: You or your family or group could not travel on certain roads in the USA.
Would you complain?
[I'm thinking you to be native born]
If I said: Krishna's caused trouble so none of you can use I- 95 or any other Interstate road.
You an yours .....Use your side roads. An we'll use them too...If we want.
Would you complain?
I think you would...an loudly.
There would hardly be any point to dealing with them now-- rather, it would be more fruitful to deal with the parties currently in power!)
They are still in the Knesset-an very much viable
-stop acting like they're the Whig Party.
Kadima is closer to Likud than to Labour-It's [Kadima] founder [Sharon] helped found Likud
{"commentId":1108458,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1108511,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Krishna: The army [IDF] left Gaza.
The armed settlers are still very much there.
Wrong-- Israel has completely withdrawn from Gaza-- no more settlers, no more army-- no more Israelis!
{"commentId":1108511,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108524,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1108526,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
How would you feel if I told you: You or your family or group could not travel on certain roads in the USA.
Would you complain?
[I'm thinking you to be native born]If I said: Krishna's caused trouble so none of you can use I- 95 or any other Interstate road. You an yours .....Use your side roads. An we'll use them too...If we want.
Would you complain?I think you would...an loudly.
Wrong again. The Israelis have left Gaza. 100%. There are no more ISraelis in Gaza. There are no Israeli checkpoints (unless, perhaps, Hmas is manning them)-- because the Israelis have left!
In fact, there are no more Israeli settlements in Gaza.
Israel ended the occupation of Gaza. Pulled out completel-- all civilians...all army...everyone!
Gaza is now occupied only b Plaestinians-- it is run by an elected Plaestinian govt (Hamas).
The roads are controlled by Hamas.
{"commentId":1108526,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108531,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
The armed settlers are still very much there.
How would you feel if I told you: You or your family or group could not travel on certain roads in the USA.
Would you complain?
[I'm thinking you to be native born]If I said: Krishna's caused trouble so none of you can use I- 95 or any other Interstate road. You an yours .....Use your side roads. An we'll use them too...If we want.
Would you complain?I think you would...an loudly.
This is all untrue.
I was wondering about your statements about the lack of free travel on Gaza roads. Well, you are right-- in part. But-- its not because of the Israelis-- did I mention-- the Israelis have left Gaza, and handed it over to the Palis. So-- why the blocks on the roads? Well since there are no longer any Israelis left in Gaza-- the Palestinians have decided to turn their violent urges ontgo each other.
Yes-- there are roadblocks-- but they are manned by Palis:
"MOHAMMED OMER, 22, JOURNALIST, RAFAH, GAZA
I live in Rafah but have gone to Gaza City to report on the factional fighting.
A gunman maintaining a position in Gaza City
Masked gunman controlling a street in Gaza City
On Tuesday, I was stopped by three militants at a roadblock close to the Palestinian Legislative Council. I was walking on one side of the street and another young guy was on the other side.
The gunmen shouted "Stop! Stop!". They made us raise our hands and approach them slowly.
They were Palestinian, definitely, from the accent, but I couldn't see their faces because they wore masks.
They formed a triangle around me - two in front, and one behind.
I said, "Do you know who I am?"
One of those in front said, "We don't care", and shot two bullets into the ground near my feet.
"Let's shoot him in the legs," said the other.
I showed them my ID and my news card. One of them then told me to go - they didn't want to see me, he said.
I was reluctant to move away because I've heard they can shoot you once you turn your back. I could see them shaking and I felt anything could have happened.
So for a few metres I faced them as I walked away and kept eye contact. Then they shouted "Go, go!". They kept the other guy - I don't know what happened to him.
Some groups are targeting men with beards and women with veils
I never expected Gaza to be like this.
I think the men were my age or a bit older. They are working for suspicious people - maybe not even for Hamas or Fatah but for their own reasons.
I've heard some groups are targeting men with beards and women with veils.
I actually went back into Gaza City this morning because I heard on the radio and from a friend that it was OK again.
But it wasn't. I saw a roadblock, empty streets and felt the tension. I was there for a very short time.
Here in Rafah it is quiet, but it's still not safe to go around. Funerals have been going on this afternoon.
The militants have taken positions in Rafah so roadblocks could be their next step.
I've been feeling very depressed since that incident on Tuesday. What if I'd ended up being paralysed by that stupid young man? "
{"commentId":1108531,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108532,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1108542,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
They are still in the Knesset-an very much viable
Yes- they are indeed. But-- they are not allied with the current government-- they are in opposition.
Likud (as well as most of the parties on the Israeli right) are very angry with-- and strongly opposed to-- the dovish stance of the current Israeli govt.
They were also vehemently opposed to Israel's endidn the occupation of Gaza. They organized large demonstrations. Howevewr, they are the minority-- in the end they lost their struggler, and the moderates prevailed. The occupatoion of Gaza ended...there is no longer an Israel;i occupation of Gaza...the roadblocks are manned by Hama (Palestinians)..all the Israeli settlements in Gaza are no more!
{"commentId":1108542,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108565,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
The armed settlers are still very much there.
How would you feel if I told you: You or your family or group could not travel on certain roads in the USA.
Would you complain?
[I'm thinking you to be native born]
Israel has left Gaza. Your statements about Israelis being there are false and misleading.
The lack of freedom on Gaza roads is due to Hamas-- not the Israelis (there are no longer any Israelis in Gaza).
Since the Israelis left Gaza, and turned it over to the Palestinaisn, violence has greatly increased.
More:
"In an unusual piece of self-criticism, a well-known Hamas official has decried the collapse of Gazan life into chaos and said that much of the blame belonged to Palestinians themselves.
"Gaza is suffering under the yoke of anarchy and the swords of thugs," wrote Ghazi Hamad, a former Hamas newspaper editor and spokesman for the current Hamas government, in an article published Sunday in the Palestinian newspaper Al Ayyam.
After so much optimism when Israelis pulled out of Gaza a year ago, he wrote, "life became a nightmare and an intolerable burden."
He urged Palestinians to look to themselves, not to Israel, for the causes, and in particular blamed the chaos on various armed groups in the Gaza Strip - most of whom are affiliated with Fatah, Hamas's rival.
[...]
In southern Gaza, Hamas gunmen shot a motorist who refused to stop at a roadblock, witnesses said. The gunmen said they came under fire from the approaching car and returned fire. The shooting appeared to be another sign of tension between Hamas and Fatah."
{"commentId":1108565,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
{"commentId":1108575,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
The armed settlers are still very much there.
How would you feel if I told you: You or your family or group could not travel on certain roads in the USA.
Would you complain?
The armed settlers are no longer there-- Israel has ended it occupation of Gaza.
The control of the roads in Gaza is by Hamas (Israel is no longer in Gaza):
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — On Hamas' first day of full rule in Gaza, crowds looted strongholds of the rival Fatah on Friday — stripping the home of one of the party's strongmen down to the flower pots — and militants sent a man plunging to his death from a rooftop.
[...]
The house of former Gaza strongman Mohammed Dahlan, a longtime nemesis of Hamas, was overrun, and looters stripped it of everything from windows and doors to flowerpots. "This was the house of the murderer Dahlan that was cleansed by the holy warriors," read graffiti sprayed on the wall. Donkey carts outside the house waited to take on more loot.
More than 90 people were killed in five days of fighting, and dozens wounded.
The morgue at Gaza City's main Shifa Hospital was overflowing, with bodies lined up on the floor; some of the wounded were sleeping on cardboard on the floor.
[...]
In all, about a dozen Fatah fighters were executed, gang-land style, since Gaza fell to Hamas late Thursday, according to people with ties to Fatah. Among those killed was Samih Madhoun, a leader of a feared militia, whose bullet-riddled body was found Thursday evening. Madhoun was captured by Hamas at a roadblock, and Hamas posted a photo of the blood-covered corpse, sprawled on the ground, on its Web site.
Hamas is stopping people from using Gaza roads-- not Israel. Israel has left Gaza....
I do not know if you are posting all our our disinformation in a deliberate attempt to deceive-- or if our intentions are good, but you are just merely uninformed...however, I am beginning to wonder if its worthwhile engaging you in conversation....
{"commentId":1108575,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108811,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
The armed settlers are still very much there
For this I apoligize- as of 2005 ...they are gone from Gaza.
But all the rest is not limited to Gaza- [this situation [road access]still exists in the West Bank settlements]
Your statements about Israelis being there are false and misleading.
-and now updated an corrected.
The armed settlers are still very much there.
How would you feel if I told you: You or your family or group could not travel on certain roads in the USA.
Would you complain?
[I'm thinking you to be native born]
If I said: Krishna's caused trouble so none of you can use I- 95 or any other Interstate road. You an yours .....Use your side roads. An we'll use them too...If we want.
Would you complain?
I think you would...an loudly.
Why are you showing me all this violence an whatnot in Gaza?
Are you making a case for another occupation?
Let those people vote to see if they perfer to be occupied.
This is all untrue
No, only the corrected part...an you haven't answered my question about the road access.[In the West Bank]
The West Bank has 4,500 km (2,796 mi) of roads, of which 2,700 km (1,678 mi) are paved.
In response to shootings by Palestinians, some highways, especially those leading to Israeli towns, are completely inaccessible to cars with Palestinian license plates, while many other roads are restricted only to public transportation and to Palestinians who have special permits from Israeli authorities [8][9] [10]. Due to numerous shooting assaults targeting Israeli vehicles, the IDF bars Israelis from using most of the original roads in the West Bank. Israel's longstanding policy of separation-to-prevent-friction dictated the development of alternative highway systems for Israelis and Palestinian traffic, which only happened after the shootings made passage dangerous for Israeli vehicles..
Israel maintains more than 50 checkpoints in the West Bank [11]. As such, movement restrictions are also placed on main roads traditionally used by Palestinians to travel between cities, and such restrictions have been blamed for poverty and economic depression in the West Bank [12]. Since the beginning of 2005, there has been some amelioration of these restrictions. According to recent human rights reports, "Israel has made efforts to improve transport contiguity for Palestinians travelling in the West Bank. It has done this by constructing underpasses and bridges (28 of which have been constructed and 16 of which are planned) that link Palestinian areas separated from each other by Israeli settlements and bypass roads" [13] and by removal of checkpoints and physical obstacles, or by not reacting to Palestinian removal or natural erosion of other obstacles. "The impact (of these actions) is most felt by the easing of movement between villages and between villages and the urban centres" [14].
However, the obstacles encircling major Palestinian urban hubs, particularly Nablus and Hebron, have remained. In addition, the IDF prohibits Israeli citizens from entering Palestinian-controlled land (Area A).
As of August 2007, a divided highway is currently under construction that will pass through the West Bank. The highway has a concrete wall dividing the two sides, one designated for Israeli vehicles, the other for Palestinian. The wall is designed to allow Palestinians to freely pass north-south through Israeli-held land. [22]
[edit] Airports
The West Bank has three paved airports which are currently for military use only. The only civilian airport of Atarot Airport in northern Jerusalem, which was open only to Israeli citizens, was closed in 2001 due to the Intifada. Palestinians were previously able to use Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport with permission; however, Israel has discontinued issuing such permits, and Palestinians wishing to travel must cross the land border to either Jordan or Egypt in order to use airports located in these countries
Now. with all the road shooting incidents an other violence in the USA.
We haven't had the "need" to issue special licence plates to or ban any target groups access to certain roads an airports.
But if we did....an you were one of the target group..
Again -How would you feel?
{"commentId":1108811,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1100254,"authorDomain":"hudaalsawa"}
typo. i meant: "pro-Israeli".
{"commentId":1100254,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"hudaalsawa"}
#8 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:35 AM EDT{"commentId":1100265,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Anything for the Decider to leave a "legacy" and I hope everybody sees this as just another effort to save his sorry presidency. How suspect is this? It has been 6 plus years for this administration and they are just deciding this is a good idea? I guess the stealth VP approved this latest effort because we all know Miss Condi has no authority and as the Donald said she never closes the deal. Another worthless photo op for the fashion queen.
{"commentId":1100265,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"marygj"}
- 3 votes
#9 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:40 AM EDT{"commentId":1100489,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}
The UN is talking about pulling out of the Mid East Quartet. So now this liar backs her favorite puppet. So much fo9r democratically elected Hamas.
A top UN expert has said he will urge the world body to withdraw from the Quartet of Middle East mediators unless it addresses Palestinian human rights.
John Dugard, the UN human rights envoy for the Palestinian Territories, told the BBC the US, EU, UN and Russia were failing to protect the Palestinians.
I will suggest that the secretary general withdraw the UN from the Quartet, if the Quartet fails to have regard to the human rights situation in the Palestinian Territories
{"commentId":1100489,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
- 4 votes
#10 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:04 PM EDT{"commentId":1102690,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}
I SPY - I agree with your comment. Whether one likes their attributes or not, Hamas WAS the democratically elected "government" of the Occupied Palestinians.
A comment of mine about an article commenting on Dr Rice and Palestinian rights to East Jerusalem has been REMOVED by a Zionist poster. You be the judge - it involves no personal comment about any named person except for Dr Rice who as I say is complicit in horrendous crimes against humanity in occupied Iraq (2 million post-invasion excedss dreaths, 4 million refugees).
My family was ethnically cleansed from Nazi-occupied Hungary in 1944-45 and, in addition to natural feeling of humanity to oppressed fellow human beings, I am utterly disgusted with the ethnic cleansing of Indigenous Palestinians from their Homeland.
People such as myself are absolutely obliged to protest gross human rights abuses of fellow human beings.
The following comment of mine was removed by a pro-Zionist poster who argued that Dr Rice "should go home" because of her support (albeit minimal) for Palestinian rights to their homes and land in Jerusalem: REMOVED COMMENT:
I don't like Dr Rice (Dr Death) one bit - her rightful place is in the dock before the International Criminal Court for her complicity in the racist, anti-Semitic Bush Asian Holocaust (see: "United State terrorism. 8 million deaths & mainstream media holocaust denial": link.
However, that said, it is NOT Condoleezza Rice who "should go home" but (as intimated by Dr Death) the Racist Zionists illegally and criminally occupying Palestinian homes and lands with an appalling attendant cost: 50,000 Palestinians violently killed, 0.3 million post-invasion Occupied Palestinian excess deaths; 0.2 million post-invasion Occupied Palestinian under-5 infant deaths; 2,400 under-5 year old Occupied Palestinian infants are deliberately, if passively, murdered by Apartheid Israel EACH YEAR; 85 % of Occupied Palestinian Christians have fled; 80% of Holy Land homicides are committed by Jewish Israelis; there are 7 million Palestinian refugees; Occupied Palestinian kids live in Concentration Camp conditions and about 200 are killed by Racist Zionists each year (see: "Zionism, Occupation & Palestinian Genocide. "Jerusalem Madonna". Mother & Child" : link ).
About 63 years ago the Nazis butchered members of my family and our homes and lands are STILL illegally and criminally OCCUPIED.
Anyone who denies, ignores, minimizes, excuses, obfuscates, advocates, supports or is otherwise complicit in gross human rights abuses - such as invasion, occupation, dispossession and ethnic cleansing of ANY PEOPLE by ANY PEOPLE - has crossed the line separating decent humanity from barbarism.
{"commentId":1102690,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1103072,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1104895,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}
I am so pleased - Newsvine has RESTORED my comment in the thread in question! Bravo Newsvine, the First Amendment and the commitment to free speech of the decent America the world still loves!
{"commentId":1104895,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1105107,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Whether one likes their attributes or not, Hamas WAS the democratically elected "government" of the Occupied Palestinians.
And, of course, whether one liked their attributes or not...the Nazi party was the democratically elected party of Germany.
Just sayin'....
{"commentId":1105107,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1105117,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I am utterly disgusted with the ethnic cleansing of Indigenous Palestinians from their Homeland.
Tch tch, tch...you make statements that have no basis in fact! As a group is ethnically cleansed, the numbers decrease. The fact of the matter is...there is no ethnic cleansing of the Palis. In fact, their numbers keep increasing...which would obviously not be the case if there were being ethnically cleansed!
{"commentId":1105117,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1107637,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1107848,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}
Typical Zionist lies
.the Nazi party was the democratically elected party of Germany.
This is because of the all pervasive Zionist Media in the US, its so funny to see people say such silly things, well only in America and the lesser satan do you ever hear people talk such crap. Israel has already poured hundreds of millions of dollars into what in Hebrew is called hasbara, or information for the outside world (hence, propaganda). This has included an entire range of efforts: lunches and free trips for influential journalists; seminars for Jewish university students who over a week in a secluded country estate can be primed to "defend" Israel on the campus; bombarding congressmen and -women with invitations and visits; pamphlets and, most important, money for election campaigns; directing (or, as the case requires, harassing) photographers and writers of the current Intifada into producing certain images and not others; lecture and concert tours by prominent Israelis; training commentators to make frequent references to the Holocaust and Israel's predicament today; many advertisements in the newspapers attacking Arabs and praising Israel; and on and on. Because so many powerful people in the media and publishing business are strong supporters of Israel, the task is made vastly easier.
Israel has successfully wanted to prove to the world is that it is an innocent victim of Palestinian violence and terror, and that Arabs and Muslims have no other reason to be in conflict with Israel except for an irreducibly irrational hatred of Jews. Nothing more or less. And what has made this campaign so effective is a long-standing sense of Western guilt for anti-Semitism.
{"commentId":1107848,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
{"commentId":1108528,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1108611,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
well only in America and the lesser satan do you ever hear people talk such crap.
Who are you referring to-- lesser satan? And..is there also a greater satan?
{"commentId":1108611,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108623,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
nd that Arabs and Muslims have no other reason to be in conflict with Israel except for an irreducibly irrational hatred of Jews.
Video (turn up your sound): a broadcast on official Palestinian TV-- is it merely hatred of so-called 'zionists"-- or is it in fact, an irreducibly irrational hatred of Jews?
{"commentId":1108623,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1108891,"authorDomain":"ISPY"}
Yawns You guys cant respond so you try to change the topic amnd back peddle furiously. LOL so typical. Is this the formula that the proto-Nazi regime you support tells you to use ?
{"commentId":1108891,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"ISPY"}
{"commentId":1100833,"authorDomain":"nickford"}
I'm tired of middle east peace becoming the 11th hour pet project of every lame duck presidency.
{"commentId":1100833,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"nickford"}
- 2 votes
#11 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:26 PM EDT{"commentId":1101084,"authorDomain":"onlywords-6"}
Secretary Rice has come down from the mountain with a warning from the White House. Peace and a Palestinian Territory, NOW!. Lunch anyone?
{"commentId":1101084,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"onlywords-6"}
- 3 votes
#12 - Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:36 PM EDT{"commentId":1125004,"authorDomain":"superfoot23"}
Thanks Bush Administration, California is now on fire.
When are you going to get it?
You call for Israel to give up her land or for a Palestinian State and some part of the U.S. gets devastated as a result. It happened exactly the same way back in October of 2003. You opposed a security fence in Israel, saying that it would impede the emergence of a Palestinian State, then from October 24 through November 5, 2003 Southern California was devastated by wildfires.
Why do you insist on repeatedly doing this to us?
{"commentId":1125004,"threadId":"162206","contentId":"1026022","authorDomain":"superfoot23"}
#13 - Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:49 PM EDT{"commentId":1125600,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
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