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BALTIMORE — A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.
The federal jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.
Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."
The defense said it planned to appeal, and one of the church's leaders, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the members would continue to picket military funerals.
"Absolutely; don't you understand this was an act in futility?" Phelps-Roper said.
Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."
Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.
The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.
Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders — Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Phelps-Roper and Rebekah Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.
The group is confident the award will be overturned on appeal, Phelps said
"Oh, it will take about five minutes to get that thing reversed," he said.
Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."
Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.
It was unclear whether the plaintiffs would be able to collect the damages awarded.
Before the jury began deliberating the size of punitive damages, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted that the size of the compensatory award "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court.
Defense lawyer Jonathan Katz said the church has about 75 members and is funded by tithing.
The defense attorney said that the assets of the church and the three defendants are less than a million dollars and that the compensatory award is about three times the defendants' net worth, mainly in homes, cars and retirement accounts.
One of Snyder's attorneys, Sean Summers, said he would tirelessly seek payment of the award.
"We will chase them forever if it takes that long," Summers said.
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
61 Votes- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
Published to:
- Alex Dominguez's Column, All of Newsvine
- Groups: Psych, Soc, Philos
- Regions: United States , Iraq , Afghanistan , Baltimore
 | Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest | CNN | Wed Oct 31 | 3 |
| Father Awarded Millions for Funeral Protest - New York Times | The New York Times | Sat Nov 3 | 0 |
| Jury awards father $2.9M in funeral case | Yahoo! News | Thu Nov 1 | 1 |
| $11 Million Awarded in Funeral Protest Suit | The Washington Post | Thu Nov 1 | 7 |
| This is not what the church is about. | AOL | Thu Nov 1 | 0 |
- Public Discussion (51)
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2.3
{"commentId":1146308,"authorDomain":"Kiser"}
Ever heard, "Don't hate the sinner, hate the sin?"
Vile.
{"commentId":1146308,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"Kiser"}
- 8 votes
#1 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:06 PM EDT{"commentId":1146321,"authorDomain":"chasencash"}
what sin?
{"commentId":1146321,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"chasencash"}
- 19 votes
#2 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:11 PM EDT{"commentId":1146336,"authorDomain":"cgbs6183"}
These people are loony and I hope they have more lawsuits like this so the "church" can not function. Then they will have to ask themselves are we really doing God's work if we don't have money to operate. I do not know how it is in the rest of the US but here lately they have made their presence felt here in KY and they are not welcome. It anger me that they call themselves Christians when they in my view are clearly anything but.
{"commentId":1146336,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"cgbs6183"}
- 17 votes
#3 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:18 PM EDT{"commentId":1146768,"authorDomain":"jimdonovanfischer"}
It is very sad that so many Christians are leaving such a bad impression on others. I myself am a Christian, and I'm ashamed at how these people can even believe they're doing the right thing. It's just pathetic.
{"commentId":1146768,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"jimdonovanfischer"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1147181,"authorDomain":"bencoble"}
im a christian and i was extremely infuriated when i read this. they are not Christians, their minds must be so crouped to think god hates anyone. weather your for or against the war you should never even consider finding joy in the death of anyone. my father was in the war, and i gurantee you if he was killed and anybody did something like that id be jail for beating the heck out of them. which i know isnt right, but honestly i couldnt contain my self.
{"commentId":1147181,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"bencoble"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1146341,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
They exercised their right to freedom of speech. They also have to pay for the irresponsible and hateful use of that right. Having the RIGHT to say something does not excuse you from responsibility for saying it.
{"commentId":1146341,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
- 7 votes
#4 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:20 PM EDT{"commentId":1146351,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Well.
It sort of does in most cases.
{"commentId":1146351,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1146363,"authorDomain":"behindmyscreen"}
In Criminal court it does Brian... but you are not protected from any civil damages your speech may encure.
{"commentId":1146363,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"behindmyscreen"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1146441,"authorDomain":"belarius"}
They exercised their right to freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech does not give you the right to make others miserable. While I think the "inflicted emotional distress" grounds for civil suits is abused in this country, the Phelps clan's antics are precisely the kind of disgusting behavior it justifiably punishes.
{"commentId":1146441,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"belarius"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":1147303,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
In Criminal court it does Brian... but you are not protected from any civil damages your speech may encure.
I hadn't been aware of this, but it makes sense. Can you cite the precedence for it?
{"commentId":1147303,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
{"commentId":1147778,"authorDomain":"regbarc"}
I hadn't been aware of this, but it makes sense. Can you cite the precedence for it?
In Common Law, civil and criminal courts are separated in terms of standards of evidence, among many other factors.
But if you're looking for a famous case where the criminal penalties and civil penalties have a total disconnect, look at the OJ Simpson trial. He was acquitted (found not guilty) of murder and all other charges. But, at the civil trial, he was found to be responsible for the deaths of the two victims.
On it's face it doesn't make sense, but think about it. It was proven that he murdered the two victims, but he also wasn't proven innocent. The only thing the Jury's verdict meant was that OJ Simpson did not murder the two victims in the manner in which the law says the killing is murder.
{"commentId":1147778,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"regbarc"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1146425,"authorDomain":"ballew74"}
Good maybe these people (I use that term lightly) will learn to keep their hate speech away from funerals. Their ideas are just ridicules
{"commentId":1146425,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"ballew74"}
- 15 votes
#5 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:48 PM EDT{"commentId":1146432,"authorDomain":"sonicflood132"}
wow. i'm a christian and lemme tell you - i definitely don't condone this kind of behavior. ridiculous. God hates THEM more than he hates gay people. and personally, i don't believe he hates gay people at all. i've never been a believer of that myth. God created all sexualities and lifestyles for a reason - being homosexual is just the same. i'm sick of arrogant bible-thumpers who take it to the extreme. this is ridiculous. if God hates America, then move the hell out of the country and take your bigotry elsewhere.
{"commentId":1146432,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"sonicflood132"}
- 15 votes
#6 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:51 PM EDT{"commentId":1146476,"authorDomain":"ballew74"}
God created all sexualities and lifestyles for a reason - being homosexual is just the same
Amen to that.
i'm sick of arrogant bible-thumpers who take it to the extreme. this is ridiculous. if God hates America, then move the hell out of the country and take your bigotry elsewhere
That is what I believe also. Great points.
{"commentId":1146476,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"ballew74"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":1146752,"authorDomain":"cgbs6183"}
I do have to say that God (the Christian God anyway) does not hate Gays, nor does he hate these Westboro Members. What God hates is evil. God gives us morals and beliefs to live by, and God also gave us free will to choose those beliefs and morals or to choose evil.
Oh and these people are loony toons, as I said before. Understanding Daffy Duck is easier than understanding how these people warped the Bible and Christianity into their present state of insanity.
{"commentId":1146752,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"cgbs6183"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":1146828,"authorDomain":"mikeshep"}
God hates THEM more than he hates gay people.
First, I would like to say that God does not Hate anyone. According to the scriptures, God love all, we are all God's children. Now, I am not a very religious person, traditional religion that is. But I have been raised in a Christian family and my mother is heavily involved in her church. What makes me sad is the people who use religion, especially Christianity, to justify their bigotry.
Take a page out of your book and LOVE THY NEIGHBOR..
I don't recall the Bible reading, "Love thy neighbor...only if they are white, straight and republican".
{"commentId":1146828,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"mikeshep"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":1147189,"authorDomain":"bencoble"}
thank you lauren. but memnoch is right about about God not hating anyone. However he does become angry, for example: The Great Flood with Noah, and when he led Mosses and his people through the desert for a really long time, not allowing them into the promise land. God is very Capable of doing that again, but he is definitely not killing American Soldiers because we are to lenient on homosexuality that just doesnt make any sense. That is just one of hand full of extremely corrupted churches
{"commentId":1147189,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"bencoble"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1146435,"authorDomain":"regbarc"}
I hope those jokers go bankrupt over this. Fred Phelps can have fun eating Raimen noodles every day for the rest of his short, miserable life.
{"commentId":1146435,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"regbarc"}
- 11 votes
#7 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:53 PM EDT{"commentId":1146612,"authorDomain":"akj"}
Well, at the end of his "short, miserable life," I'm sure there's a special place in hell for people like him.
{"commentId":1146612,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"akj"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1146751,"authorDomain":"schwab"}
i think you're referring to the sodomy wing right past the gluttony hall in the south end of hell.
{"commentId":1146751,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"schwab"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1146545,"authorDomain":"genericpsycho"}
The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality
Since that defense has worked so well in the past, what with mothers drowning their children and what not. That always makes it ok.
If there is a god, I'm sure he or she is humiliated that people do this @!$%# to each other. Forget tolerance, no, what we need is intolerance... that's what jesus smiles at, and that's what makes the world go 'round.
{"commentId":1146545,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"genericpsycho"}
- 5 votes
#8 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:29 PM EDT{"commentId":1146611,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand these people are scum and deserve every penalty we can legally give them. On the other hand I'm not a big fan of outrageous jury rewards.
{"commentId":1146611,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 2 votes
#9 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:51 PM EDT{"commentId":1146702,"authorDomain":"behindmyscreen"}
under a Libertarian system, outrageous awards like this will be permissible.
{"commentId":1146702,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"behindmyscreen"}
{"commentId":1146764,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
The award is far beyond the net worth of the people sued. While the judgment has been granted, collection is a completely different issue. The winners will not get anywhere near what the amount awarded. There is a possibility of an appeal where the judgment could be reversed or reduced.
Even then, collecting is a long drawn out process, ask the Goldmans in the OJ case.
{"commentId":1146764,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":1146835,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
Hmmm.............interesting point BMS. I'm not sure what the libertarian philosophy would be on this but I suspect you may be right :::::shrugs::::::
{"commentId":1146835,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147194,"authorDomain":"Lulu124"}
Outrageous behavior deserves outrageous jury rewards.
{"commentId":1147194,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"Lulu124"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1146654,"authorDomain":"RETLAW"}
Amazing what some people do in the name of 'God'. I wonder how He communicated his desires to Phelps?? Did he materialize out of nothing and have a one-on-one discussion?? Or did he plant a dream in Phelps mind?? Phelps didn't specify the method. I'd really like to know.
{"commentId":1146654,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"RETLAW"}
- 1 vote
#10 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:13 PM EDT{"commentId":1147199,"authorDomain":"Lulu124"}
I seriously doubt that any entity communicated anything to Phelps.
You would be more successful in understanding his behavior by looking into his childhood and upbringing. I'm betting twisted would be an understatement.
{"commentId":1147199,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"Lulu124"}
{"commentId":1147309,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
I wonder how He communicated his desires to Phelps?? Did he materialize out of nothing and have a one-on-one discussion?? Or did he plant a dream in Phelps mind?? Phelps didn't specify the method. I'd really like to know.
If you go to their website, you'll find his Biblically twisted logical-fallacy-dancing excuses for his beliefs. If you really want to know.
{"commentId":1147309,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1146738,"authorDomain":"janeway77"}
Of course the beauty of this is that the judgment is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy... they will owe the debt forever until it is paid.
{"commentId":1146738,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"janeway77"}
- 1 vote
#11 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:46 PM EDT{"commentId":1146810,"authorDomain":"danjr27"}
My first posting at this site......this place looks pretty interesting, and is populated by thoughtful people, I am very impressed.
Okay, that church: their views are disgusting and ridiculous (and how do they know God hates fags? Did He tell them in a dream or something?).
Anyway, I think this is a free-speech issue, and no matter how disgusting their views, they do have a right to say it. That they choose funerals as their venue is horrible, showing no consideration whatsoever for the grieving family (would Jesus do that? I really doubt it!).
Their message, though, makes a mockery of Christianity, you know? Why don't the middle fo the road Christians speak out against this sort of thing?
{"commentId":1146810,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"danjr27"}
- 3 votes
#12 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:17 PM EDT{"commentId":1146850,"authorDomain":"damiankd"}
I think a lot of more sensible Christians have spoken out on this already, in this thread alone. I've seen other discussions about those people where level-headed Christians spoke out about it too.
BTW, welcome to the 'Vine. How'd you hear about us?
{"commentId":1146850,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"damiankd"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147212,"authorDomain":"Lulu124"}
No, they don't really have an unlimited right.
Consider it as verbal pornography. Their actions are extremely hurtful to others and completely outside mainstream society. Ergo the large punitive award.
"Why don't the middle of the road Christians speak out against this sort of thing? "
An excellent question. Why bother? These people are so obviously beyond the pale, I know that I cannot imagine that they would ever listen to any reasonable arguments.
Evil walks among us.
{"commentId":1147212,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"Lulu124"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1147312,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
My first posting at this site......this place looks pretty interesting, and is populated by thoughtful people, I am very impressed.
Welcome! Glad you've stopped on by, and I hope you decide to get involved longterm. :)
Anyway, I think this is a free-speech issue, and no matter how disgusting their views, they do have a right to say it.
Normally I'd agree with you, but because this is a civil case and not a criminal case, as others have pointed out, I'm not sure they really have a legal ground to stand on here. I also think the "right to privacy" thing has some weight here. Does not the family have any sort of right to determine what does and doesn't go on at their own love-one's funeral? I would certainly think (and hope) so.
{"commentId":1147312,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147664,"authorDomain":"publius76"}
I have to agree with Dan Jr.
I am abhorred that these people are hiding behind the Christian faith to do these extremely hateful and intollerant things. If there is a god, I hope they burn for a long time.
Having said that, I am extremely disturbed that people can be sued and lose millions for protesting in a public area. The precedent this sets could have long lasting unintended consequesnces. This can be a very dangerous thing.
publius76
{"commentId":1147664,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"publius76"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1147690,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
Anyway, I think this is a free-speech issue, and no matter how disgusting their views, they do have a right to say it.
They do have a right to say it. It doesn't necessarily define where they can say it. If they want to go on their blog and post about it - fine. If they want to congregate in their buildings and say it - fine.
However, when they go to a funeral with the intent of causing pain to those in grief then that becomes harassment at best and assault at worse. Look at it like this - should I be able to walk down the street yelling insults at you because I'm following you in public space and I'm protected by free speech?
Ultimately, it is a conflict of personal rights. Whose should have precedence and whose should be restricted. In this case tell Phelps and his group to take it elsewhere is appropiate in my opinion. Their right to free speech doesn't trump the families right to peacefully assemble to grieve for a loved one lost.
{"commentId":1147690,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1146857,"authorDomain":"chasencash"}
These people have a right to say what they think and hold signs up - on a street corner or the like and they should be allowed to do so. When they attend a funeral and direct their comments towards a grieving family, they cross an imaginary line between public speech and a private domain of speech. While they are still protected from criminal prosecution because technically they stand in a public space, they have directed their signs and comments towards particular individuals and therefore personalised their speech. Therefore right of reply in the courts has been achieved through seeking claims for a personal grievance.
{"commentId":1146857,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"chasencash"}
- 6 votes
#13 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:34 PM EDT{"commentId":1146881,"authorDomain":"akj"}
Well said.
{"commentId":1146881,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"akj"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147315,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
Very well said.
{"commentId":1147315,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
{"commentId":1146977,"authorDomain":"chasencash"}
I understand the message sent out with the huge financial penalty but I am concerned that this huge award of money is not well measured against the crime committed.
These people have committed a despicable act of insensitivity and decorum and decency. But does this amount seem excessive? I don't know.
{"commentId":1146977,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"chasencash"}
- 1 vote
#14 - Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:22 PM EDT{"commentId":1147319,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
Not to me. These @!$%#ing intolerable worthless prickholes (I wish I could come up with more inventive demeaning adjectives) have been doing this for a long time to a lot of families. This was just the first one to actually file a suit. They deserve every last goddamned cent the courts can possibly leech out of them, and then some. I hope they all die poor, homeless and hungry. (I'm probably crossing a few lines of decency here, but I'm still pretty worked up over the whole ordeal, having just read about it....)
{"commentId":1147319,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147379,"authorDomain":"chasencash"}
OK I see that, and I can understand it. I am curious, remember when people blamed aids on homosexuality back in the day? I think I vaguely remember hate slogans about this in the media through protests. Even though people were dying, some people were really committed to this kind of attitude. Does anyone else remember...I may be going senile ...but I vaguely remember an anti homosexual protest march on TV with banners that blamed aids on gay people...can anyone help me out?
So...I guess I am wondering, a lot of these people blaming aids on gays weren't affiliated with any religion...and this situation today seems similar except the people holding the banner are religious and the dead person has died at war rather than from a communicable disease.... so is everyone having the same response to these individuals that they had to the individuals who blamed gays for aids - or are there other dynamics at play...?
From the outside looking in...There seems to be a shift in the way war soldiers are honoured today compared to Vietnam returned soldiers. Now it seems that people don't hate the warrior, but can hate the war...thus the war victims-soldiers and families - are blameless and deserve respect and protection.
Just wondering...Were the same feelings of protection were extended to those who died of aids and were facing similar persecution?
Just thinking out loud...hoping you can help me out
{"commentId":1147379,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"chasencash"}
{"commentId":1147385,"authorDomain":"chasencash"}
OK, one dynamic, a protest march differs to an actual funeral attendance, proximity to funerals causes different responses
Also people attributed homosexual behaviour as directly responsible for the spread of aids, not just for the abstract concept of causing a disease..
note to self - do not think out loud and on line
{"commentId":1147385,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"chasencash"}
{"commentId":1147137,"authorDomain":"kerchenko"}
well blow me down !
i was wondering why all them soldiers was a-dying over yonder in iraq.... and now i knows why.
its the fault of all of them thar homey-sexshuals !
i knewed me thar was a good 'splanation !
{"commentId":1147137,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"kerchenko"}
- 5 votes
#15 - Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:33 AM EDT{"commentId":1147209,"authorDomain":"LarryH"}
Their lawyers are going to appeal the $ award. I wonder if the lawyers insisted on being paid up-front of on a % completion basis. I expect that "the church" will just claim bankruptcy.
{"commentId":1147209,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"LarryH"}
#16 - Thu Nov 1, 2007 1:23 AM EDT{"commentId":1147243,"authorDomain":"aine"}
Pretty much all the adult members of the Phelps family ARE lawyers. This is why it has been so difficult to deal with their protests at funerals.
{"commentId":1147243,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"aine"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147321,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
Aine: Were the lawyers in this case somehow directly related to the family? Normally I'd have to have some amount of respect for them for fighting a first amendment case for a group of defendants so completely despicable, but not if they're just family members doing it pro-bono.
{"commentId":1147321,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1147300,"authorDomain":"quixiotic"}
If it's illegal to do it at a federal cemetary it should be illegal to do it at any cemetary. The outrageous sum awarded was only to make an example as the judge requested. That church needs to be bankrupt and a lot worse as far as I'm concerned. What if others (non-christians alike) were to picket the church saying "the reason we're at war is because *insert deity here* doesn't like Christ" we're just using our first amendment rights.
{"commentId":1147300,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"quixiotic"}
- 1 vote
#17 - Thu Nov 1, 2007 3:08 AM EDT{"commentId":1147323,"authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
What if others (non-christians alike) were to picket the church saying "the reason we're at war is because *insert deity here* doesn't like Christ" we're just using our first amendment rights.
There's no comparison at all. It wouldn't inflict even half the emotional damage as going to someone's funeral and telling the family that they're glad he's dead because God hates him. With picket signs, no less.
{"commentId":1147323,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"dannymcgee"}
{"commentId":1147336,"authorDomain":"quixiotic"}
I wasn't discussing the emotional damages as that was only 2 million dollars, the defense is appealing under their 1st Amendment rights, thats what I was making the comparison on.
And yea, that church would be pretty pissed off if there were a group telling them that.
{"commentId":1147336,"threadId":"169789","contentId":"1064218","authorDomain":"quixiotic"}
{"commentId":1147352,"authorDomain":"flaminglacer"}
I am not a Christian, I do not espouse any particular religion, but a guiding principle of my life is that you should treat others as you wish to be treated yourself - which is I understand a teaching of the Christian faith.
I have always believed in freedom of speech - it is another of the principles by which I try to live my life - however with any right comes the responsibility to exercise it with care and to be prepared to live with the consequences. I understand that this is also a principle of the Christian faith.
It seems to me that these people are contravening the very principles by which they supposedly live their lives and yet they feel they should be exempt from the consequences of their actions. The arrogance of this attitude appalls me.
I do not agree with the War that we find ourselves embroiled in, however that is not the fault of the soldiers who are there, and we should support them in the difficult task that they face. It is not the same as supporting the war.
To cause further distress to those families who have lost their sons and daughters is unforgivable. it is un-christian, it is inhuman. I was taught as a child that the Christian God is a father to his children - no father would inflict such cruel punishment on his children, rather he would comfort them in their grief. Surely these people have no right to call themselves Christian. Financial penalties will have little meaning to them - my fervent wish is that the vicious and vindictive God they believe in will treat them as they have treated others.
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- 1 vote
#18 - Thu Nov 1, 2007 4:16 AM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"169789","isPrivate":false}
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