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Study: 1 Out of 4 Homeless Are Veterans

Wed Nov 7, 2007 6:42 PM EST
us-news, politics, veterans, homeless-veterans
Kimberly Hefling, AP Education Writer
AP National Security correspondent Sagar Meghani
< PreviousNext >
showing 1 of 5 photos
<p>Vietnam veteran Lonnie Bowen Jr. smokes a cigarette outside the The Philadelphia Veterans Multi-Service & Education Center in Philadelphia, Wednesday, Oct. 24, 2007.  A new report scheduled to be released Thursday shows nearly a half-million veterans were homeless last year. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke) </p>

Vietnam veteran Lonnie Bowen Jr. smokes a cigarette outside the The Philadelphia Veterans Multi-Service & Education Center in Philadelphia, Wednesday, Oct. 24, 2007. A new report scheduled to be released Thursday shows nearly a half-million veterans were homeless last year. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

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WASHINGTON — Veterans make up one in four homeless people in the United States, though they are only 11 percent of the general adult population, according to a report to be released Thursday.

And homelessness is not just a problem among middle-age and elderly veterans. Younger veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are trickling into shelters and soup kitchens seeking services, treatment or help with finding a job.

The Veterans Affairs Department has identified 1,500 homeless veterans from the current wars and says 400 of them have participated in its programs specifically targeting homelessness.

The National Alliance to End Homelessness, a public education nonprofit, based the findings of its report on numbers from Veterans Affairs and the Census Bureau. 2005 data estimated that 194,254 homeless people out of 744,313 on any given night were veterans.

In comparison, the VA says that 20 years ago, the estimated number of veterans who were homeless on any given night was 250,000.

Some advocates say the early presence of veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan at shelters does not bode well for the future. It took roughly a decade for the lives of Vietnam veterans to unravel to the point that they started showing up among the homeless. Advocates worry that intense and repeated deployments leave newer veterans particularly vulnerable.

"We're going to be having a tsunami of them eventually because the mental health toll from this war is enormous," said Daniel Tooth, director of veterans affairs for Lancaster County, Pa.

While services to homeless veterans have improved in the past 20 years, advocates say more financial resources still are needed. With the spotlight on the plight of Iraq veterans, they hope more will be done to prevent homelessness and provide affordable housing to the younger veterans while there's a window of opportunity.

"When the Vietnam War ended, that was part of the problem. The war was over, it was off TV, nobody wanted to hear about it," said John Keaveney, a Vietnam veteran and a founder of New Directions in Los Angeles, which provides substance abuse help, job training and shelter to veterans.

"I think they'll be forgotten," Keaveney said of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. "People get tired of it. It's not glitzy that these are young, honorable, patriotic Americans. They'll just be veterans, and that happens after every war."

Keaveney said it's difficult for his group to persuade some homeless Iraq veterans to stay for treatment and help because they don't relate to the older veterans. Those who stayed have had success — one is now a stock broker and another is applying to be a police officer, he said.

"They see guys that are their father's age and they don't understand, they don't know, that in a couple of years they'll be looking like them," he said.

After being discharged from the military, Jason Kelley, 23, of Tomahawk, Wis., who served in Iraq with the Wisconsin National Guard, took a bus to Los Angeles looking for better job prospects and a new life.

Kelley said he couldn't find a job because he didn't have an apartment, and he couldn't get an apartment because he didn't have a job. He stayed in a $300-a-week motel until his money ran out, then moved into a shelter run by the group U.S. VETS in Inglewood, Calif. He's since been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, he said.

"The only training I have is infantry training and there's not really a need for that in the civilian world," Kelley said in a phone interview. He has enrolled in college and hopes to move out of the shelter soon.

The Iraq vets seeking help with homelessness are more likely to be women, less likely to have substance abuse problems, but more likely to have mental illness — mostly related to post-traumatic stress, said Pete Dougherty, director of homeless veterans programs at the VA.

Overall, 45 percent of participants in the VA's homeless programs have a diagnosable mental illness and more than three out of four have a substance abuse problem, while 35 percent have both, Dougherty said.

Historically, a number of fighters in U.S. wars have become homeless. In the post-Civil War era, homeless veterans sang old Army songs to dramatize their need for work and became known as "tramps," which had meant to march into war, said Todd DePastino, a historian at Penn State University's Beaver campus who wrote a book on the history of homelessness.

After World War I, thousands of veterans — many of them homeless — camped in the nation's capital seeking bonus money. Their camps were destroyed by the government, creating a public relations disaster for President Herbert Hoover.

The end of the Vietnam War coincided with a time of economic restructuring, and many of the same people who fought in Vietnam were also those most affected by the loss of manufacturing jobs, DePastino said.

Their entrance to the streets was traumatic and, as they aged, their problems became more chronic, recalled Sister Mary Scullion, who has worked with the homeless for 30 years and co-founded of the group Project H.O.M.E. in Philadelphia.

"It takes more to address the needs because they are multiple needs that have been unattended," Scullion said. "Life on the street is brutal and I know many, many homeless veterans who have died from Vietnam."

The VA started targeting homelessness in 1987, 12 years after the fall of Saigon. Today, the VA has, either on its own or through partnerships, more than 15,000 residential rehabilitative, transitional and permanent beds for homeless veterans nationwide. It spends about $265 million annually on homeless-specific programs and about $1.5 billion for all health care costs for homeless veterans.

Because of these types of programs and because two years of free medical care is being offered to all Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, Dougherty said they hope many veterans from recent wars who are in need can be identified early.

"Clearly, I don't think that's going to totally solve the problem, but I also don't think we're simply going to wait for 10 years until they show up," Dougherty said. "We're out there now trying to get everybody we can to get those kinds of services today, so we avoid this kind of problem in the future."

In all of 2006, the National Alliance to End Homelessness estimates that 495,400 veterans were homeless at some point during the year.

The group recommends that 5,000 housing units be created per year for the next five years dedicated to the chronically homeless that would provide permanent housing linked to veterans' support systems. It also recommends funding an additional 20,000 housing vouchers exclusively for homeless veterans, and creating a program that helps bridge the gap between income and rent.

Following those recommendations would cost billions of dollars, but there is some movement in Congress to increase the amount of money dedicated to homeless veterans programs.

On a recent day in Philadelphia, case managers from Project H.O.M.E. and the VA picked up William Joyce, 60, a homeless Vietnam veteran in a wheelchair who said he'd been sleeping at a bus terminal.

"You're an honorable veteran. You're going to get some services," outreach worker Mark Salvatore told Joyce. "You need to be connected. You don't need to be out here on the streets."

___

Associated Press writer Kathy Matheson contributed to this story from Philadelphia.

___

On the Net: National Alliance to End Homelessness: http://www.naeh.org/

New Directions: http://www.newdirectionsinc.org/

Project Home: http://www.projecthome.org/

County of Lancaster: http://www.co.lancaster.pa.us/

Veterans Affairs Department: http://www.va.gov/

U.S. Vets: http://usvetsinc.org/

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Kimberly Hefling's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: United States , Vietnam , Iraq , Afghanistan , Washington DC
  • Public Discussion (35)
kiml

They volunteer.
They serve.
They get ignored.
The US government have ignored these heroes for too long.
They need help, they deserve help.
Get off your asses and help them!

  • 5 votes
#1 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:30 PM EST
Tim Boothby

You're right, its been going on for decades now.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:36 PM EST
Pamela Drew

It has been going on for decades and it is a disgrace. This is a perfect example of what a boatload of BS the patriotic rhetoric is. When the President and Congress talk about supporting our troops and America's finest they're just wrapping all the war profiteering in Star Spangled Propaganda. The ones America takes care of are on Wall Street. They are CEO's who can overcharge and gouge, be involved in fraud, waste and abuse of taxpayer funds and go on to enjoy their mega million dollar salaries as the people who are the true Patriots are left high and dry. How much more will it take for the public to demand that Congress be accountable?

  • 9 votes
#1.2 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:01 PM EST
space guy

Pamela

And yet you support the development of more fraud and waste by stealing more of the taxpayers money ($1 trillion is the latest tax increase) for more failed social programs.

Not the way to do business.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:07 PM EST
I SPY

I see AP has been shamed into this because yesterday this video was released to the world,

http://ispy.newsvine.com/_news/2007/11/08/1081321-forgotten-soldiers

This is some fairly poor reporting from AP, but as usual its as dumb as the people want it to be.

Sullivan claims these Bush appointees actively attempted to cover up the true scale of the PTSD problem.

PAUL SULLIVAN: In 2005 I was looking at the data as part of my job and seeing that there was a tidal wave of disability claims for mental health problems among returning Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans. When I briefed the political appointees about this, one political appointee told me to "Make the numbers lower." She said, "God doesn't like ugly, you need to make the numbers lower."

  • 5 votes
#1.4 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:27 PM EST
I SPY

Oh and by the way these are the same people who broke the Abu Ghraib story.

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:32 PM EST
luckydog

Is this really so surprising? The Republicans have been starving different agencies of the government for years and then pointing to them and saying "see, government is incompetent and inefficient. It just doesn't work".
An article in the AAAP magazine this month points out that it is a 3 year wait to get a Social Security hearing for disability. This is not because SS is bad or the employees are incompetent but that the number of applicants have increased exponentially (remember the baby boom) while the funding to operate SS has decreased. People are dying of their disease or disability without every collecting a dime.
When the government during the Reagan years decided to close mental hospitals around the country and turned those folks out into the street, crime increased, the cost of law enforcement increased, people are unhappy being accosted by aggressive panhandlers that obviously have mental problems, it all ties together.
I am old enough to tell you that I have witnessed several wars, each time hearing people saying the same old thing; "nothing is to good for the boys" but as soon as that conflict passes, the boys have become veterans and are seen as an expense, something to be avoided and ignored.
Funny how we can find money to support Dictatorships in Pakistan and failed occupations in Iraq but we can't find money in this country for children's health care or veterans.

  • 7 votes
#1.6 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:34 PM EST
Jim Dent

You're right, its been going on for decades now.

Actually Tim, it's been going on pretty much since civilizations began. No one thinks of the soldiers when their used up, and that's not peculiar to this country or this era. Rudyard Kipling said it best over a hundred years ago...

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Tommy.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:48 PM EST
Grey Wolf

"($1 trillion is the latest tax increase)"

That is a bumper sticker knee-jerk conservative reaction.

What tax increase? Perhaps a proposal to let Bush's tax cuts expire? And what does this glib comment have to do with how Bush the decider has allocated money over the past years? Perhaps somehow a proposal for the future should be applied to the past or else it is the Democrats fault. Bush decided more money for Blackwater, less money for Walter Reed. etc. etc.

Nobody even responds to that comment; has everybody else already put this guy on ignore?

  • 6 votes
#1.8 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 1:20 AM EST
I SPY

There all to woried about the Neo-Neo-Cons (Religious Right amoral minority) and McCain to respond :)

    #1.9 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 6:55 AM EST
    space guy

    What tax increase? Perhaps a proposal to let Bush's tax cuts expire?

    Yes by definition when I am paying more taxes tomorrow than today, it is a tax increase.

    • 1 vote
    #1.10 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 10:48 AM EST
    St. Joseph the Worker

    And yet you support the development of more fraud and waste by stealing more of the taxpayers money ($1 trillion is the latest tax increase) for more failed social programs.

    Man, if these people are willing to die for you -- you should (at the very least) make sure they are not left out on the streets. You should make sure they have a home no matter what the cost (despite the possibility of fraud and waste). Everyone should have a home. Don't be cruel.

    • 4 votes
    #1.11 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:17 PM EST
    space guy

    Was not talking about veterans but the overall spending of the guvment

    • 1 vote
    #1.12 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:27 PM EST
    St. Joseph the Worker

    Then, you should state that you think Veterans are an exception to your ideology. Why should anyone be homeless (unless they choose to be) in the richest country ever known?

    • 3 votes
    #1.13 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:45 PM EST
    space guy

    There will always be homeless people. I have been homeless myself and people end up that way for many reasons.

    There is a vast difference between providing proper benefits to Veterans than creating a socialist nanny state.

    Also, if 1 out of 4 homeless are vets (25%) and their proportion of the adult population is 11% then consider this.

    50% of the adult population is male which means that they are 22% of the adult male population.

    Which means that their statistical percentage is about 1 out of 4.5, which means that statistically they are not out of proportion as a fraction of homeless as this article implies.

    This is back to the old veterans are losers that was common after the Vietnam war.

    • 1 vote
    #1.14 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:17 PM EST
    St. Joseph the Worker

    Do you believe that you deserved to be homeless?

    • 2 votes
    #1.15 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:31 PM EST
    Mars313

    I believe that if you risk your life in service for this country, then you should have some sort of protection against being homeless. Maybe a dried-up, useless military base could become free housing for poor vets. Instead of just letting them rot in the cities they abandoned.

    • 3 votes
    #1.16 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:38 PM EST
    St. Joseph the Worker

    Something like 14% of Baltimore's housing is vacant. I don't think we should waste the space.

    • 2 votes
    #1.17 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:42 PM EST
    Reply
    St. Joseph the Worker

    The United States of America is great.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#2 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:43 PM EST
    Mars313

    So when people spit this "I support the Troops" bumper sticker rhetoric, do they just mean they support the troops in Iraq? These troops aren't supported.

    I wonder how many of the homeless vets get denied spare change from some soccer mom wearing her little yellow ribbon. This is a good example of the hollow words of this Nation.

    Be ready for another wave in about 15-20 years.

    • 11 votes
    Reply#3 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 8:44 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    The irresponsible banking laws and lending have created an economy on the verge of collapse, the debt is crushing, the wave has begun and the Veterans are just one piece. We don't even count the ones who finally resort to drug use and crime and end up in jail. America has the world's biggest prison population as well; it's another way a corporate system can charge $50,000 a year to lock up someone who can't earn more than $15,000 trying to be an upstanding citizen. There's a great three page study of profiting on the prison system.

    • 7 votes
    #3.1 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:13 PM EST
    Arlo Goodbody

    Pamela, here is a very interesting book on the prison system. It's short, but I still like it. It sheds some light on the similarities between prison and mil. industrial industries, and also about how prisons are considered important sources of labor for states and also companies. Pretty good journalism, presented in a sociology-style thesis.

    • 2 votes
    #3.2 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:30 AM EST
    Reply
    Simon L

    "You need to be connected. You don't need to be out here on the streets."

    What about the "ordinary" homeless people?

    Yeah, just keep on ignoring America.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#4 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 9:36 PM EST
    luckydog

    Everybody has got a story. Too many people find it too easy to hate, to dismiss, to see them as a problem and not as people.

    • 3 votes
    #4.1 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:55 PM EST
    Reply
    Alexander.

    billions of dollars to have them fight the wars
    zero dollars to have them live after war

    everyone loves to say 'support the troops' but so few really do

    lets rally together write our leaders even get a lobby group together

    this needs to change. these numbers are really sick.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#5 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:02 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    Write our leaders? Who do you think is bleeding every last penny out of Walter Reed? We are run by a band of corporate criminals who don't care who dies and who suffers, children without healtcare, toxic waste sites polluted water and air, soldiers wounded in a formerly prestigious Government facility.

    By Dana Priest and Anne Hull Washington Post Staff Writers
    Sunday, February 18, 2007; Page A01

    Behind the door of Army Spec. Jeremy Duncan's room, part of the wall is torn and hangs in the air, weighted down with black mold. When the wounded combat engineer stands in his shower and looks up, he can see the bathtub on the floor above through a rotted hole. The entire building, constructed between the world wars, often smells like greasy carry-out. Signs of neglect are everywhere: mouse droppings, belly-up cockroaches, stained carpets, cheap mattresses.

    This is the world of Building 18, not the kind of place where Duncan expected to recover when he was evacuated to Walter Reed Army Medical Center from Iraq last February with a broken neck and a shredded left ear, nearly dead from blood loss. But the old lodge, just outside the gates of the hospital and five miles up the road from the White House, has housed hundreds of maimed soldiers recuperating from injuries suffered in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    The common perception of Walter Reed is of a surgical hospital that shines as the crown jewel of military medicine. But 5 1/2 years of sustained combat have transformed the venerable 113-acre institution into something else entirely

    Building 18! There is a rodent infestation issue!" bellowed the commander to his troops one morning at formation. "It doesn't help when you live like a rodent! I can't believe people live like that! I was appalled by some of your rooms!"

    Life in Building 18 is the bleakest homecoming for men and women whose government promised them good care in return for their sacrifices.

    One case manager was so disgusted, she bought roach bombs for the rooms. Mouse traps are handed out. It doesn't help that soldiers there subsist on carry-out food because the hospital cafeteria is such a hike on cold nights. They make do with microwaves and hot plates.

    Army officials say they "started an aggressive campaign to deal with the mice infestation" last October and that the problem is now at a "manageable level." They also say they will "review all outstanding work orders" in the next 30 days.

    Soldiers discharged from the psychiatric ward are often assigned to Building 18. Buses and ambulances blare all night. While injured soldiers pull guard duty in the foyer, a broken garage door allows unmonitored entry from the rear. Struggling with schizophrenia, PTSD, paranoid delusional disorder and traumatic brain injury, soldiers feel especially vulnerable in that setting, just outside the post gates, on a street where drug dealers work the corner at night.

    "I've been close to mortars. I've held my own pretty good," said Spec. George Romero, 25, who came back from Iraq with a psychological disorder. "But here . . . I think it has affected my ability to get over it . . . dealing with potential threats every day."-

    Everything was privatized by Reagan and the Gengrich GOP Congress moves, sold as smaller government, but it was nothing but a way for the insiders to buy the operations on the cheap, drain them, run them to ruin, charge taxpayers more for less and call it a free market system.

    Meet the Walter Reed Building 18 owners Patriots of IAP Worldwide

    IAP Worldwide Services, Inc., a leading government services contractor, announced today that Gen. Michael W. Hagee, who retired early this year after serving as the 33rd Commandant of the Marine Corps, has joined IAP?s Board of Directors

    With the appointment of Gen. Hagee, IAP?s Board of Directors has expanded its distinguished group of military, government and civilian leaders with global experience and recognition in the marketplace. The Board also includes former Vice President Dan Quayle, Gen. Michael P.C. Carns (Ret.), former Vice Chief of Staff, U.S. Air Force; and Gen. George A. Joulwan (Ret.), former Commander in Chief, U.S. European Command and NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe.

    IAP provides contingency and logistics services for several U.S. government departments and agencies, and all branches of the U.S. Military. IAP has performed the Air Force Contract Augmentation Program (AFCAP), a contingency contract, since its inception in 1997. Earlier last year, the U.S. Navy selected IAP and another company to perform a global contingency contract to provide construction and engineering services in support of Navy warfighters, natural disaster recovery, humanitarian assistance and emergency response.

    • 5 votes
    #5.1 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:29 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    In case anyone doubts IAP Worldwide dirtbags run Walter Reed and the horror of Building 18.

    Short-term Response at Building 18 Before it was Vacated

    # After an article appeared in The Washington Post on Feb. 18 that focused on conditions in Building 18, IAP dedicated a special team that focused on immediate improvements and correction of long-standing concerns. Before Building 18 was vacated to conduct major renovations and repair to its roof, IAP had coordinated a short-term response to correct maintenance deficiencies. IAP personnel: Removed mold in a number of rooms.
    # Patched and painted several walls.
    # Repaired plumbing and electrical systems and an elevator.
    # Installed alarm and security systems.

    We're supposed to believe they can find terrorists when they can't find rats and roaches infesting a hospital.

    • 5 votes
    #5.2 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:34 PM EST
    Reply
    Keld Bach

    Is this the place they use to call "the land of milk and honey"?

    • 6 votes
    Reply#6 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:15 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    If you're a Congressional corporate friendster there's no limit to the riches.

    • 8 votes
    #6.1 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:35 PM EST
    I SPY

    Well here is everyones chance to show that the article by Scott scoop Butki was not a waste of time, (Will you take the international challenge) , will the go to the original story from Australia or will they chicken out and hide out on the AP article because they are scared it might say something they dont like. My guess is they will just stick with Ap because they cant handle the truth, they dont want to think about it, and they can just read this puffy little piece and forget all about it.

    • 3 votes
    #6.2 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 11:43 PM EST
    Reply
    abowhite45

    It's amazing this great nation we live in and how it goes about it's daily business of exploiting service personnel who serve an ungrateful nation. The previous comments are very true about the yellow ribbons but no one really shows support through writing their congressmen or senators about the disgusting issues faced by the veteran. We vote in these senators and congressmen with their fancy $700 suits, carrying their fancy briefcase full with hot air, and all they do is find ways to spend billions of taxpayers hard earned dollars on bridges that lead to nowhere.
    When veterans are in desperate need of assistance from the federal government and federal programs. Instead of all the damn pork spending to appeal to special interest groups, our government should be taking special interest in those who serve them in a time of crises. This nation has turned it's back on the men and women who sacrificed everything and all they ask of their country is to do the right thing and give them all of the entitlements they deserve. Give support to help them get on their feet, give them health care so they can resume a normal life, give living assistance so they can come from off the streets, and most of all a pension that will allow them to be the proud individuals the military instilled.
    Our government must do the right thing for our present and former service members. Until this happens you will see a great decline in those volunteering to serve and when our military weakens so goes the strength of our nation.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Wed Nov 7, 2007 10:51 PM EST
    johnmcd

    This is an opportunity for Bill Gates Foundation(and Warren Buffet's money also) to step up and do something for the people who served the US. Instead of looking at other places in the world, here is a genuine need that US charities should address. If they can solve the problems of vets, the other three quarters can also be accommodated later in a more efficient manner.
    This should be a win win situation for such foundations and the country. The government so far is unable to solve this problem so expertise and money from other sources should be welcome.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#8 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:46 AM EST
    InBrown

    I volunteered for U.S. VETS (aka United States Veterans Initiative) during my time in AmeriCorps. It really does get veterans off the street, provide ongoing after care for any applicable resolved addictions and help them get jobs. It really does foster a community and builds upon military brother and sisterhood. Some of the most moving experiences I've ever had with any other person were at U.S. VETS. There are about 14 branches in the country, I recommend that any group get involved. Share your skills, your resources, your time (veterans love to play dominoes and chess!) to pay them back for them offering their lives.
    -Alexis

    • 4 votes
    Reply#9 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 3:34 AM EST
    abowhite45

    Thanks Alexis, Great suggestion.

    • 3 votes
    #9.1 - Thu Nov 8, 2007 5:40 AM EST
    Reply
    Robert Blevins - AB of Seattle

    Yeah...maybe we should drop another 70 billion on the Iraq War, or billions more to enforce death penalty cases.

    Or ... maybe we could do something about THIS issue. An issue regarding life and the living, and guys who served our country.

    Much better, I think.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#10 - Fri Nov 9, 2007 5:45 AM EST
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