Senate Blocks Iraq War Money

Things have been supposedly improving for about four years now, which leads me to believe that they haven't actually been improving in that time.

Never underestimate a Democrat's willingness to try and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory when they think there's a political payoff somewhere. Pelosi and Reid are going to have their asses handed to them yet again on this one. The goal in Iraq is to win and victory cannot be measured by a bunch of half-baked timelines. It would be akin to Churchill and Eisenhower telling Montgomery: "Monty, you've got to take Caen by x day or we're going to start pulling your men out of the line."

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Things are improving in Iraq and Congress is still trying to have us lose.

You Bush supporters all like to trot out the "Democrats want us to lose" bit everytime the Dems try something like this. And yes, Bill, a lot of this could be political posturing and such. But even if their actions are with the wrong intentions, there's some value in standing up to the president. Did you guys miss the line in the article about $3.7B a week in war expenses? Who is going to pay for that? At least someone is trying to stand up to George Bush -- the most fiscally irresponsible president we've had in a long time.

The senate and the House democrats keep seeming to forget that the purpose of congress is to approve the funds or not. it is not to run the war. They are trying to dictate military policy and that is just plain wrong.

Congress makes the decisions to go to war, not the President. They all just need to reassert their Constitutional authority.

Bill, you already used the "jaws of victory" line, and you said there were going to get their asses handed to them.... they didn't. The "jaws of victory" don't exist, it's something that right-wingers made up.

I have never seen so many disconnected people so eager to keep this kids in harm way for their own self-righteousness. Admit you were wrong, this war is not our war. why do you want to see so many KIDS die so you can feel better about yourself? give it up! quit wishing death on poor kids. Jesus would vomit if he saw how bloodthirsty some of you are.

Glad you brought that up. The notion that the war is bankrupting the United States is bandied about constantly proving again the old adage that figures lie and liars figure. People see a figure like $1.6 trillion and they gasp for breath. But leaving aside some of the dubious methodology behind the Democrats latest green eyeshade tricks (like adding in higher crude oil prices, the percentage of which can be attributable to the war can in no way can be quantified), the fact is that the war is not bankrupting this country. Our GDP is something in the neighborhood of $12 trillion/annum. And this year's federal budget is $2.4 trillion.

Bob Sameulson had a very good column a while back which summarizes all of this:

. . .The war on terrorism has clearly worsened the long-term budget outlook. How then can I treat that so lightly? What's missing is context. Dominated by Social Security and health care, the federal budget now totals nearly $3 trillion annually. Suppose the war's ultimate costs reach $2 trillion by 2017 (the figure is cumulative, not in any one year). That's a big number, perhaps too big. It's also a wild guess. Still, the CBO estimates all federal spending over the same period (2002-17) will total $48 trillion; war spending would be about 4 percent. In the same period, the income of the U.S. economy (gross domestic product) would total an estimated $248 trillion; war spending would be less than 1 percent of that. The point, as I said in 2002, is that we're so wealthy we "can wage war almost with pocket change."

With hindsight, it seems almost incontestable that the Iraq war should never have been fought. It has eroded our global power, weakened our military and resulted in thousands of American and Iraqi deaths. What I most regret about my earlier column is that it seemed to bless a war, when I was mainly trying to focus attention on questions more important than money. Given the headline (I wrote it) and the fact that those questions came at the end of the column ("Is this war justifiable? . . . What would happen if we don't fight? What will happen if we do?"), the reaction was understandable. In truth, I was uncertain about the war then, just as I'm unsure of what to do now.

But I am certain -- now as then -- that budget consequences should occupy a minor spot in our debates. It's not that the costs are unimportant; it's simply that they're overshadowed by other considerations that are so much more important. We can pay for whatever's necessary. If we decide to do less because that's the most sensible policy, we shouldn't delude ourselves that any "savings" will rescue us from our long-term budget predicament, which involves the huge costs of federal retirement programs. Just because the war is unpopular doesn't mean it's the source of all our problems.

Would we be in better fiscal shape if we'd not gone to war in Iraq? Probably. Will it bankrupt is as WWII did Great Britain? Hardly.

but it's money spent on a useless war. we're wasting that money and getting nothing back.... bad investments Bill

But Bill, war costs for bullets and bombs by themselves yield no further utility in corrupted wars, and are in fact usually quite destructive. They differ from Medicare and Social Security costs, which are spent by old people and put back into the ecomic loop.

But Al, I thought it was all about enriching General Dyanmics and Halliburton? Do they use robots to produce munitions, etc.? Leaving aside the fact that providing for the common defense is something actually adumbrated in the Constitution.

Sure there are jobs, but the product is an economic dead-end; lots of mineral resources reduced to oxide dust, used to destroy other durable goods, resources that are not being used for a car or a building frame or a computer hard drive. Just because we trade for everything with dollars doesn't mean everything in economics can be reduced down to a mere dollar figure.

I doubt the people at NorthrupGrumman, Lockheed, Boeing and a host of others would agree with you Al. But it's Friday and I don't want to spoil your little fantasy for the weekend.

yeah, they'll be taken care of as long as they own our politicians. that doesn't count Bill. They employ a VERY small part of the public

Well of course they wouldn't Bill, they get rich but the whole suffers. This isn't WWII fighting for our survival, this is an otherwise-noble cause that has been horribly corrupted by ideologues. And my little fantasy for the weekend is doing just fine, thank you.

Bill.

Try ' snatching hollow talking points from the jaws of "I want to be a curmudgeon when I grow up at 60, hollow contrairian masturbatory dysentery."

whatever gets you through the weekend I guess.

It's as predictable and entertaining as one of those glass long necked birds that dip and dip into a glass of water. Dreaming that one day someone will congradulate them on their swan-like properties.

The cantankerous pride of the elderly. Ageless.

Faith certainly is blind.

How useful that makes the faithful. More useful than they're used to I'd wager. Giddy with usefulness even.

Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. That's you in a nutshell. You're a Kiwi, right? Man, it's a long fall from the ANZACs to you.

Cowboy,

Cut Bill some slack.... it's hard getting old and turning your generation's power and control over to a younger, more diverse group of Americans. Keep in mind that his country is being stolen and ruined by the same punk ass kids that keep stepping on his grass. He could soon be watching the demise of his glorious Corporate Nation through the window of some dusty, dirty retirement home that the private health sector totally forgot to fund. It's hard out there for a pimp.

Bill
whereas you don't have to descend. you are where you've always been. A spectator trying vainly to be misconstrued as a participant. Climbing aboard the memories of others hoping your bluster gets taken seriously. Having never worn a uniform you cosy up to those who have. Ansacs, yeah right.

Pick a warrior, any warrior and pretend you own them,
You really believe you have some noble litmus?

Stick with your 'lefty' barbs. That's really where you shine.

Spare yourself more of this self inflicted embarrassment. This hero worship of anyone who fights and dies is a tad transparently compensatory.
Did you have polio or something? whooping cough perhaps?

You like dishing it out, carry on, I like small pond bullies.

Perhaps you could put your attempts at insult where your overconfidence is.
AOD perhaps?

I'm still trying to figure out where you shine. It's certainly not in posting anything remotely resembling substance as regards the topic at hand. You might wish to try it some time and demonstrate that at least you have some idea of what you're talking about.

In my eyes winsomecowboy shines at looking through all the accouterments of the performance to explain how the scenes are created and who's got hold of the curtain line. He also has the vocublary and reference to put bullies in their place when Bill Buckley style of parlance tries to play a class card duce into a trump ace.

I don't think they'll wait so long to cave. I'd go first of next week, myself, 19th or 20th. They'll explain it's so the troops can have turkeys for Thanksgiving, or some such...

If Gates plays the same money political game they are it will end fast. Selective closure of bases and layoff of employees will convert some Congressmen real fast I figure. It's wrong, but well the whole situation is wrong.