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WASHINGTON — Nearly a year after anti-war voters put them in power, congressional Democrats remain unable to pass legislation ordering troops home from Iraq.
Frustrated by Republican roadblocks, Democrats now plan to sit on President Bush's $196 billion request for war spending until next year — pushing the Pentagon toward an accounting nightmare and deepening their conflict with the White House on the war.
"We're going to continue to do the right thing for the American people by having limited accountability for the president and not a blank check," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
Senate Republicans on Friday blocked a $50 billion bill by Democrats that would have paid for several months of combat but also would have ordered troop withdrawals from Iraq to begin within 30 days. The measure, narrowly passed this week by the House, also would have set a goal of ending combat in December 2008.
The 53-45 vote was seven votes short of the 60 needed to advance. It came minutes after the Senate rejected a Republican proposal to pay for the Iraq war with no strings attached.
Now, Democratic leaders say they won't send President Bush a war spending bill this year. They calculate the military has enough money to run through mid-February.
Responding to the congressional blockage, Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Friday signed a memo ordering the Army to begin planning for a series of expected cutbacks, including the layoffs of as many as 100,000 civilian employees and another 100,000 civilian contractors, starting as early as January, Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said.
"The memo reflects the urgency of the situation we find ourselves in — we are in a real crisis," Morrell said, noting that layoff notices to some civilian employees would have to be sent as early as mid-December. He decried Congress' refusal thus far to provide the money needed to continue fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, accusing lawmakers of "holding hostage the well-being of our men and women in uniform, and our national security."
The delay will satisfy a Democratic support base that is fiercely anti-war. But it also will give Republicans and the White House ample time to hammer Democrats for leaving for the holidays without funding the troops.
"We ought to get the troops the funding they need to finish the mission without restrictions and without a surrender date," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.
At the White House on Friday, deputy press secretary Tony Fratto said the spending gap is unjustified.
"We'd rather see the Department of Defense, the military planners and our troops focusing on military maneuvers rather than accounting maneuvers as they carry out their mission in the field," Fratto said.
Since taking the reins of Congress in January, Democrats have struggled to pass any significant anti-war legislation. Measures that passed along party lines in the House repeatedly sank in the Senate, where Democrats hold a much narrower majority and 60 votes are routinely needed to overcome procedural hurdles.
In May, Republicans agreed not to stand in the way of a $95 billion bill that would have set a timetable for troop withdrawals. Bush rejected the measure and Democrats lacked the two-thirds majority needed to override the veto, as Republicans anticipated.
Democrats eventually stripped the timetable from the bill and sent Bush the money without restrictions on force levels. The move was an unpopular one with many Democratic voters who say Congress should cut off money for the war.
As the year progressed, Democrats hoped for Republican defections. But a drop in violence this fall in Iraq helped to shore up GOP support for the war.
On Friday, only four Republicans joined Democrats in voting for the Iraq measure: Sens. Gordon Smith of Oregon, Olympia Snowe of Maine, Susan Collins of Maine and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska.
Sen. Christopher Dodd was the lone Democrat opposing it because he said it did not go far enough to end the war. Other Democrats, including Sen. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, said they too opposed the bill as too soft but that they supported advancing debate.
"The only way to end the war is with a firm deadline that is enforceable through funding," said Dodd, D-Conn.
Democrats acknowledge recent progress made by the military in Iraq but contend the security will be short-lived unless the Iraqi government reaches a political settlement.
"We need to do more than say to the Iraqis that our patience has run out and that they need to seize the opportunity that has been given them," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich. "Their dawdling will only end when they have no choice."
Republicans on Friday tried to counter with an alternative proposal that would have paid $70 billion toward the war without restrictions. That measure failed by a vote of 45-53, falling 15 short of the 60 needed to advance.
Republicans said there were appalled by Sen. Chuck Schumer's comment, reported by The Associated Press on Thursday, that the Bush administration wouldn't get a "free lunch."
Schumer, D-N.Y., had told reporters that unless Bush accepted the restrictions, the Defense Department would have to eat into its core budget.
"The days of a free lunch are over," he said.
Republican National Committee Chairman Mike Duncan said Schumer's comments were "unbelievable," and Rep. Heather Wilson said the senator should apologize to the troops.
"Sen. Schumer only wants to fund pay, body armor and chow for the troops if he can put conditions on the money so that they cannot do the mission they have been ordered to do," said Wilson, R-N.M.
The Pentagon confirms the military will not run out of money until mid February, after which all Army bases would cease operations.
___
AP Military Writer Robert Burns contributed to this report.
___
On the Net:
Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov
Pentagon: http://www.defenselink.mil/
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
28 Votes- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
Published to:
- Anne Flaherty's Column, All of Newsvine
- Groups: rightwingers
- Regions: Iraq , Washington DC
 | Senate Blocks Iraq War Money | Associated Press | Thu Nov 15 | 0 |
| Senate Blocks Iraq War Money | Associated Press | Fri Nov 16 | 28 |
| Reid Calls on Bush to Withdraw Troops | Associated Press | Tue Nov 13 | 7 |
| House Democrats Round Up Votes on Iraq | Associated Press | Wed Nov 14 | 13 |
- Public Discussion (156)
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19
{"commentId":1191551,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
hmmm. *yawn*
{"commentId":1191551,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 5 votes
#1 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:05 PM EST{"commentId":1191598,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
Hey, it takes decades to be an overnight-success.
{"commentId":1191598,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1191619,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
They could have ended this a long time ago. They're either stupid or they don't want to. I'm sick of this debate going around in circles. The posturing, the lies, etc.
{"commentId":1191619,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1191628,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
We're dealing with criminal elements, here, and it's a long and slow process. If this is a quagmire like Vietnam, it's going to take us a similarly long time for us to get out.
{"commentId":1191628,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
{"commentId":1191699,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
The Democrats have the power to end this -- they just don't want to. The American people elected them to get the troops out -- now the people need to show them how serious they really are. Lets go people. We are the ones we've been waiting for.
{"commentId":1191699,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1191711,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
According to this story, they don't, not yet. The pro-war people are strong, coordinated, and a little more than a bit corrupt.
{"commentId":1191711,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1191763,"authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
The Dems are 0-40 in ending this war. Reid and Pelosi are as incompetent as Bush.
{"commentId":1191763,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":1191767,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
The Democrats have the power to end this -
Wrong: they do not have the power to over ride any Bush vetos
{"commentId":1191767,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1191777,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
The Dems are 0-40 in ending this war
It's 0 - 41 now, but so what? Winston Churchill said that success is nothing more than going from failure to failure with boundless enthusiasm. This one has failed, but there'll be another push starting tomorrow.
{"commentId":1191777,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1191942,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
They don't have to vote for funding. If they withhold funding -- the rest is Bush's responsibility.
{"commentId":1191942,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1191963,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Wrong: they do not have the power to over ride any Bush vetos
Wrong.
Two ways:
1. In the United States, Congress can override a presidential veto by having a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and Senate, thus enacting the bill into law despite the president's veto.
2. Power of the purse. End the funding.
Stop making excuses for the do-nothing Democrats.
{"commentId":1191963,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1192064,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
They don't have to vote for funding. If they withhold funding -- the rest is Bush's responsibility.
You'd think that, but the voters decide responsibility, and the GOP has a whole mechanism to influence voters.
You think you're the only one who can get fed up? Maybe some of us are fed up with people who are happy when the Democrats win elections, but then abandon them at the first sign of trouble. The election wasn't the end of the fight, it was just the beginning.
{"commentId":1192064,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192073,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1192085,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
Bush himself, for one, the ol' bully pulpit. Official power is decided in elections, real power comes and goes.
{"commentId":1192085,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1192089,"authorDomain":"theredviolin"}
The talk radio, Fox News, Hannity, Limbaugh train of destruction. They pray and tell apparently.
{"commentId":1192089,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"theredviolin"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1192101,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1192102,"authorDomain":"theredviolin"}
Nope. I'm pretty sure you just asked what the mechanism was and I was utterly happy to oblige.
{"commentId":1192102,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"theredviolin"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1192125,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
They don't have to vote for funding. If they withhold funding -- the rest is Bush's responsibility.
That may be what you want, but its not what most Americans want. It is not what they promised when they ran for office either. The vast majority do NOT want Congress to cut all funding.
You can assert its Bush's responsiblity, but Congress cant shrug so easily. Nor can the soldiers in Iraq or their families.
You might believe that a proverbial game of chicken is preferable, but that puts you in a small minority.
Stop making excuses for the do-nothing Democrats.
Ironic that you wish that they would do nothing and not fund the military. Stop pretending that withholding funding is either cost free or supported by most Americans. Its neither.
You can pretend its black and white and straightforward. Its not.
{"commentId":1192125,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192148,"authorDomain":"theredviolin"}
Don't the Democrats also have access to media to express their views? I don't get how that's a GOP mechanism.
You keep putting words in my mouth. I never said the media didn't have a liberal component as well. I think you need to stop treating every person like they have the exact same philosophy. They don't always cross over. =)
{"commentId":1192148,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"theredviolin"}
{"commentId":1192416,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
All right. I'm out. Can't be chatting with Democrat apologists that will deny reality at all costs to make their party look better than the disgraced George W. Bush. The American people are asking for them to end the war. The Democrats can end the war by cutting funding. No excuses. Since the Democrats won't do it - it means that you have get off your ass and onto the streets to cause a ruckus. I started doing that a month before the war started. I went to another a day before the war started (100,000's of people showed up and we shut down Lake Shore Drive in Chicago for hours). Then I went to protest again the day the war started. I've been going to protests several times a every year. Were y'all coming out too?
It's going to take sustained and frequent protests like the unexpected Lake Shore Drive demo to end the war.
{"commentId":1192416,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192449,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Ironic that you wish that they would do nothing and not fund the military. Stop pretending that withholding funding is either cost free or supported by most Americans. Its neither.
Look, the Congressional Democrats' popularity can't get much lower anyway. Do you want to end the war? Or do want to let more people die while you politic? The war machine can't function without out funds, therefore the military would be withdrawn.
{"commentId":1192449,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192741,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I went to another a day before the war started (100,000's of people showed up and we shut down Lake Shore Drive in Chicago for hours).
Were your efforts a success?
{"commentId":1192741,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192802,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
It's going to take sustained and frequent protests like the unexpected Lake Shore Drive demo to end the war.
No, they won't. These people have learned much about how to counter protests since the 60's. The protests have become meaningless.
{"commentId":1192802,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1192806,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
No, they won't. These people have learned much about how to counter protests since the 60's. The protests have become meaningless.
True. But they sure are a lot of fun!
{"commentId":1192806,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192868,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Were your efforts a success?
It was successful because it showed people what was possible.
No, they won't. These people have learned much about how to counter protests since the 60's. The protests have become meaningless.
I don't really have time to give you links to all of the protests that have had impact in the past few years. But here's one that I have on my Newsvine: Living Wage Victory at Camden Yards
The mere threat of a hunger strike it led to success!
The massive immigrant rights rallies shifted the entire immigrant policy debate. You can do some research, if you choose to learn.
Heck, I was at a rally at the Baltimore Sheraton yesterday. Today, the state Democrats canceled their planned convention at the hotel because of it. Looks like things might work out for the workers.
Protests and rallies are always leading to victories. You guys have a lot to learn.
Ordinary citizens - not the Republicrats - ended the Vietnam War.
{"commentId":1192868,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192872,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Were your efforts a success?
Plus, none of us expected to stop the war by protesting the night before the bombs were dropped. That wasn't the point.
{"commentId":1192872,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1193266,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Protests and rallies are always leading to victories. You guys have a lot to learn.
Some do-- some don't.
{"commentId":1193266,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1193459,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
True. I take back "always".
{"commentId":1193459,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1193610,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
I don't really have time to give you links to all of the protests that have had impact in the past few years.
I saw some of the biggest protests ever in history, organized around the world to stop the Iraq war before it happened, and it all added up to exactly nothing.
{"commentId":1193610,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1193982,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Oh really? How many countries have removed troops and began to withdrawal from Iraq, now?
{"commentId":1193982,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1194210,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
Oh really? How many countries have removed troops and began to withdrawal from Iraq, now?
Including the US? All of them.
{"commentId":1194210,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1194284,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
Oh really? How many countries have removed troops and began to withdrawal from Iraq, now?
Including the US? All of them.
Good point!
{"commentId":1194284,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1197269,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Good point!
Didn't I make that point first?
{"commentId":1197269,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1197280,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
Well if that was the point you were making, good point!
{"commentId":1197280,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1197293,"authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
Thanks :)
{"commentId":1197293,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"josephschroeder"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1197323,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
No charge! ;)
{"commentId":1197323,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1197670,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
No, they won't. These people have learned much about how to counter protests since the 60's. The protests have become meaningless
Protests are never meaningless.....but silence is always meaningful
{"commentId":1197670,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1197725,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
I suppose meaningless is a rather strong of a word, it even makes a statement, its the effectiveness that has diminished since the 60's.
{"commentId":1197725,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
{"commentId":1197759,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Oh really? How many countries have removed troops and began to withdrawal from Iraq, now?
Oh, the cosmic justice.
"Clean your glasses: It said "cosmic" not "comic". "
Including the US? All of them
Lol
We do have a comic !
Surges, Rotation,......is that what your calling "removal" ? We must have left Vietnam in '68 ......an just didn't know it.
{"commentId":1197759,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1191567,"authorDomain":"epiphany-sorbet"}
The 53-45 vote was seven votes short of the 60 needed to advance.
The Daschle rule comes back to bite the Dems. Oh, the cosmic justice.
{"commentId":1191567,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"epiphany-sorbet"}
- 11 votes
#2 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:09 PM EST{"commentId":1191771,"authorDomain":"MCLiepshutz"}
If you think its that funny , maybe you should be the one writing those letters that begin: DearXXXXX we regret to inform you that on (date) your (son, daughter, husband, mother..fill in the blank)...
{"commentId":1191771,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"MCLiepshutz"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1191772,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
Oh, the cosmic justice.
So innocent US kids dying in Iraq is a joke to you,?
{"commentId":1191772,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":1191778,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
If you think its that funny , maybe you should be the one writing those letters
First she will ignore your post and then in the same breath swear up and down how she supports the troops.
{"commentId":1191778,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":1192081,"authorDomain":"chillywater"}
Clean your glasses: It said "cosmic" not "comic".
{"commentId":1192081,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"chillywater"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192108,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
Clean your glasses: It said "cosmic" not "comic".
I see that; it was her rabid sarcasm and acting as if the troops' lives are a game is what I think is disgusting.
{"commentId":1192108,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192171,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
I've been over there and I get the cosmic joke, if you look hard enough for a reason to be offended you'll find it.
{"commentId":1192171,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1192194,"authorDomain":"epiphany-sorbet"}
2.5
The cosmic justice is that the Dems are being hamstrung by a rule they designed to hamstring Republicans. Iraq is not the only issue the Dems can't ram through.
No, I don't think troop deaths are a joke. The troops know why they are there. It's a pity that many don't understand the mission as well as those who putting all on the line for it.
{"commentId":1192194,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"epiphany-sorbet"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":1192221,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
It's a pity that many don't understand the mission
Very true they don't. Still think it has something to do with US security. WMD and some how 9/11, instead the real reason OIL>
{"commentId":1192221,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192226,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
if you look hard enough for a reason to be offended you'll find it.
Innocent people being killed for a lie is a reason most rational people would be offended.
{"commentId":1192226,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192227,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
What are we fighting for in Iraq again? The reasoning seems to change with the wind--WMDs? That seems to have gone away with Bush's pathetic little video looking for them. Freedom? Doesn't seem like it? Oil?
These questions need to be asked and reviewed regularly in a situation where our troops are dying.
{"commentId":1192227,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1192247,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
It's a pity that many don't understand the mission as well as those who putting all on the line for it.
I think the mission was something we had to do, but has become a front-story for something horrific.
{"commentId":1192247,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1202904,"authorDomain":"thedagda"}
The troops know why they are there.
To die for a lost cause and so other more important Americans can make tons of money.
The Democrats should not vote another dime for the war. Let Bush spend all the money he was wasting on contractors on the troops instead. Let Congress tell the contractors "If you are truly patriotic, suck it up and do your job for free. Otherwise, get out and stay out, you scummy war profiteers."
{"commentId":1202904,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"thedagda"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1203821,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
To die for a lost cause and so other more important Americans can make tons of money.
Um, yeah, riiiight...
{"commentId":1203821,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1204510,"authorDomain":"thedagda"}
You deny Americans are dying? You deny other high-status Americans are making lots of money half a world away from the violence? You cannot deny the cause is lost. Where are the Iraqis throwing candy at our troops, greeting them with rose petals? When they do that, then the cause may not be lost. Until then, the proper salute to George W. Bush is to make the letter L with forefinger and thumb and place it directly in front of the forehead. It's not only a special sign of disrespect, it's one he's earned.
{"commentId":1204510,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"thedagda"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1204603,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Obviously you know nothing about me. and from comments like these very little about what is happening in Iraq.
{"commentId":1204603,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1208791,"authorDomain":"thedagda"}
Ah, which city are you in, DAWeb? Are you in Baghdad or Fallujah? Maybe up in Erbil?
{"commentId":1208791,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"thedagda"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1209499,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Yup, sounds exactly like what I said. Typical Dem, can't respond to the statement so he looks at twisting it.
{"commentId":1209499,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1209616,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
DAWeb do you ever add anything to these boards? All you seem to do is start verbal fights with anyone left of center, or anyone who doesn't agree with you.
{"commentId":1209616,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1210143,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
More on average then that comment of yours.
Thanks.
{"commentId":1210143,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1210151,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
I guess you made my case for me, when I said you add nothing to these boards.
All I've ever seen you do on Newsvine is post insults to those who do not agree with you , or in the few cases you make some point , go ballistic when some one shows you where you are wrong.
Here is a little tip for you: get help.
You can now be #2 on my list of people I don't respond to anymore.
I am sure you will come back with some childish quip, knowing full well I will just ignore IT.
Go ahead; its my holiday present to you, little man.
{"commentId":1210151,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1210348,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Interesting how you work on your insults while complaining that I am handing out insults. Please do ignore me. You will be much happier that way
{"commentId":1210348,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1210941,"authorDomain":"thedagda"}
I see you didn't answer me, DaWeb. Since you didn't, I will assume you have never been to Iraq. Come see for yourself. Then we'll chat about how thoroughly wrong you are.
{"commentId":1210941,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"thedagda"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1211209,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
{"commentId":1211209,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1191784,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
These are primarily the same dems who authorized this war with that October 2002 resolution - and now they want to endanger our troops in the field - the same ones they helped send to war ---by playing games with their funding. This is a DISGRACE - playing politics to appease the dem base is no way to fight a war. SHAME ON THIS DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY......
{"commentId":1191784,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 9 votes
#4 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:01 PM EST{"commentId":1191840,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
Actually, they authorize force to be used IF NECESSARY. Bush made the decision that it was based on false intel.
They aren't playing politics, they are standing up to a horrible president and admin and the public is largely with the Dems on this issue. Perhaps if Bush had a plan beyond "invade" the war wouildn't be what it is--a quagmire, a mess with no easy resolution in sight. Bush is the one vetoing the money. He could have it if he wanted, but he is too much of a bully to compromise.
{"commentId":1191840,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1191849,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
no easy resolution in sight. Bush is the one vetoing the money
TJG - yes - dems always looking for the easy way out ---in this case it was the senate who blocked, not Bush.
{"commentId":1191849,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":1191906,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
Nope, Bush is looking to keep this war alive long enough to pass it along so all the Repubs will then blame the Dem admin for it.
Bush had no business starting a war he knew would be impossible to end, a war he had no plan for. It is squarely in his court, no matter how hard the angry right noise machine attempts to change that. A true leader would not have sent troops into an intractable conflict with no plans.
{"commentId":1191906,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1191943,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
TJG -the surge is working - it's no time to monkey around with war funds now.
{"commentId":1191943,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":1192087,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
The surge was designed to assist the Iraqis with political reconciliation...Mailiki has said that it is a failure.
Monkey around? Congress is doing its job of oversight. No president should have a blank check or borrowed funds just because he says so.
"The surge is working" is a nice, meaningless bumpersticker/slogan. If it were working, we could start bringing troops home. Note that I am not in the "bring them all home immediately!" camp, but I do think a drawdown is necessary.
{"commentId":1192087,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192103,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
TJG - you don't draw down when progress is finally being made.
{"commentId":1192103,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":1192106,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
Progress isn't measured by your hopes and dreams. We haven't got the structure of Iraq back to where it was before we Shocked and Awed it. That's not progress, it's half-ass cleaning up the mess we made.
{"commentId":1192106,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192162,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
This is a DISGRACE - playing politics to appease the dem base is no way to fight a war. SHAME ON THIS DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY......
Your revisionist slurs are shameful.
In case you missed it, the Democrats are trying to enact what a majority of Americans support, while it is the Republicans that are playing politics to appease their base.
Bush has politicized the war and divided the nation from the very beginning and made it the center piece of his political strategy under Karl Rove. Of course, you remain blind to this fact.
The fact is that the Republicans are obstructing the will of the majority.
{"commentId":1192162,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192179,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
What progress Lisa?
Again, nice slogan, no meat.
{"commentId":1192179,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192755,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
What progress Lisa? Again, nice slogan, no meat.
{"commentId":1192755,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192881,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
krishna - thanks for that.
{"commentId":1192881,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1193270,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
krishna - thanks for that.
You're welcome.
If I had more time I would read his blog regularly. Some of the best first person reporting from the Mi-East I've seen. In depth-- and he has analysis & insights you won't see elsewhere. (here's another example-- this one is not about the war-- but about the Yezidis: The Beginning of the Universe (A fascinating visit with the Yezidis if Iraq)
{"commentId":1193270,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1194261,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
krishna,
One guy's blog isn't proof of much except for his own opinion and views. It's like posting an OP-ED as proof.
{"commentId":1194261,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1194363,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
Not really,
Michael J. Totten is a free-lance journalist, usually based in Beirut. He has traveled to various places in the mid-east, and writes some interesting "human interest" stories...often these provide some excellent background information to current events-- things you wouldn't know if your main source of news is the mainstream media-- or, for that matter, most of the "alternative media".
He's an independent reporter that went on his own and paid his own way, I have friends in Iraq that read his work in fact. He's there and taking the risks, so much for just a blog or op-ed.
Since when do people on a site advocating, encouraging and supporting citizen journalism belittle citizen journalists? If he sells his story to a paper does that make him more credible?
{"commentId":1194363,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1195300,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I have friends in Iraq that read his work in fact.
Wow-- now that's saying something. Although, I suppose its not surprising-- his work is really excellent (I wouldn't be surprised if he wins several journalism awards---if he hasn't already).
And--his reporting is actually much better than most of the mainstream media-- or even the alternative media, for that matter.
{"commentId":1195300,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1195323,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
They're on the lookout for him, I imagine he'll get loaded up with some goodies to help him on his way, but he'd better hurry most of them are rotating back soon.
{"commentId":1195323,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1198882,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Lisae you are correct. now that we are making progress it is amazing that the Dems are so far behind the times that they are still beating the surrender monkey
{"commentId":1198882,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1199115,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
Dems are so far behind the times that they are still beating the surrender monkey
Lets see any quote from a democrat which calls for surrender.
{"commentId":1199115,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1199170,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Read the paper about how they want to withdraw now. that is in and of itself a call for surrender. Thought I was clear on that...
{"commentId":1199170,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1199262,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
that is in and of itself a call for surrender.
Only your opinion. Since the war was unjustified and we have no reason being there in the first place, it is hardly surrender.
Your president would love to have permanent base there to guard the oil; do you ever think we would leave if the Republicans have their way?
{"commentId":1199262,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1199270,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
Thought I was clear on that...
Not really, one liners hardly ever make a clear statement of fact.
If you believe what Fox News and the other right wing control media say, then maybe you have a point: I prefer the facts, which they don't provide
{"commentId":1199270,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1199288,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
DAWeb,
Pulling the troops isn't surrender. Surrender is when you meet with the other team and officially give them the win. You're pretty clear on the fact that you don't think too long before you type. Try the Fox News forums, they'll appreciate your bumper-sticker one-liners there.
{"commentId":1199288,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1199367,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Surrender is when you meet with the other team and officially give them the win.
That is exactly what you will be doing if you pull the troops out prematurely. (i.e. now)
You're pretty clear on the fact that you don't think too long before you type.
Why are you such an @!$%#?
Try the Fox News forums, they'll appreciate your bumper-sticker one-liners there.
Go back to the Democratic Underground, I am sure you will find more support for your level of thought.
{"commentId":1199367,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1199412,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
That is exactly what you will be doing if you pull the troops out prematurely. (i.e. now)
And who do we meet to surrender to? The Iraqi government? I thought they were on your side? I mean, we did go to war with Iraq right? Under Saddam... but he's gone. So who do we surrender to? Bin Laden? where do we meet him? Iraq?
Why are you such an @!$%#?
Because I hate arguments that are made up of 95% Neo-Con propaganda. Sheep exist to clothe and feed the Masters.
Go back to the Democratic Underground, I am sure you will find more support for your level of thought.
I would, but I hate Dems as much as I hate you Neo-Cons. You're all trying to destroy our Nation.
{"commentId":1199412,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1199468,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Sheep exist to clothe and feed the Masters.
Then stop playing around on the internet and get back to feeding and clothing the Hilary Clintons of the world.
{"commentId":1199468,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1199514,"authorDomain":"tj"}
Did someone call for an AoD on this thread?? Absolutely no more fighting over war bills!
Please let's not bicker and argue over who destroyed our country...
{"commentId":1199514,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"tj"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1199610,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
DAWeb,
I would expect someone like you to pull out a Hillary line. I don't support, or even like Hillary Clinton. But in your little black & white world someone who isn't on your side is on Hillary's. It's funny. You have no clue that there are other forces at work against your agenda than Hillary Clinton. Your camp and her camp have common enemies, you'd do well to learn that.
{"commentId":1199610,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1199628,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
If it quacks like a duck, and it waddles like a duck...
{"commentId":1199628,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1199682,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
then it votes for the duck? do you even know what you are trying to say through your useless, thoughtless one-liners anymore? Don't try to voice an argument if you can't spend more than 5 seconds thinking it through.
{"commentId":1199682,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1199722,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
spending more then 5 seconds responding to the likes of you is a serious waste of time. I try not to waste my time.
{"commentId":1199722,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1199750,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
Yet you keep doing it.... with more one-liners. Creative thought isn't that bad, really. It doesn't hurt at all. If that's not your thing, I got 400 bumper stickers I can sell you. That'll keep you going for a whole year. Every day you'll be endlessly saying "Ron Paul '08" but it's better than the nothing you keep saying here.
{"commentId":1199750,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1200574,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
If it quacks like a duck, and it waddles like a duck
Well-- I have to agree.Hillary certainly does quack like a duck! I'm not sure about the waling-- actually, she does seem to wadde a bit,now that I think of it.
Now if you had said that she waffles. . . like . . .?
{"commentId":1200574,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1200655,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Now if you had said that she waffles. . . like . . .?
:-)
{"commentId":1200655,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1200657,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Mars, My nothing takes up less space then the crap you have been spouting
{"commentId":1200657,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1202294,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
But my crap is thought out and true, your nothing is absolutely that, nothing.
{"commentId":1202294,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1202615,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
Dude, really, you should quit while you are behind...
{"commentId":1202615,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1202773,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
In that case, this would never end.
{"commentId":1202773,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1191905,"authorDomain":"lambright"}
It might be obvious but I'll say it any how.
Most of the troops were flown in, lets fly them home.
{"commentId":1191905,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lambright"}
- 2 votes
#5 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:33 PM EST{"commentId":1193271,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
It might be obvious but I'll say it any how.
Most of the troops were flown in, lets fly them home.
What about the ones that went by boat?
{"commentId":1193271,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1191955,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
a year after anti-war voters put them in power, congressional Democrats remain unable to pass legislation ordering troops home from Iraq.
Actually anti-war voters were not enough to put them in power in the Senate, where the deciding vote is cast by pro war "Independent" Liberman who caucauses with the Democrats.
{"commentId":1191955,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
- 6 votes
#6 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:43 PM EST{"commentId":1191962,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
Catch - I believe they said Dodd voted no as well - saying that they weren't, ahem, going far enough in getting the troops home......coward.
{"commentId":1191962,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1191982,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
Nice ad hominem false slur after the elipses. Sad that some people resort to such personal insults when a Senator votes for what he believes in.
Of course,your comment is a non-sequitor since it doesnt actually address anything that I wrote which remains true. Its also true that 4 Republicans voted with the Democrats.
Four Republicans joined Democrats in voting for the measure: Sens. Gordon Smith of Oregon, Olympia Snowe of Maine, Susan Collins of Maine and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska.
{"commentId":1191982,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1191999,"authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
Here is a flash for you..Senators are not elected to vote for what they believe in.
{"commentId":1191999,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192063,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
Its also true that 4 Republicans voted with the Democrats
Catch - I coulda told you the names of these 4 before the vote was even in - they are not pubs, they are rinos.
{"commentId":1192063,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1192095,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
So if you aren't in lockstep with Bush's every want, you aren't a real Republican, Lisa?
I seem to remember repubs mad at Dems who turned their backs on Lieberman when he didn't follow the Dem line. Another example of Repubs wanting it both ways.
{"commentId":1192095,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1192098,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
Lisa, maybe they actually care about their country, unlike the other soulless republicans.
{"commentId":1192098,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192176,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
Here is a flash for you..Senators are not elected to vote for what they believe in.
Says who? It all depends on the Senator now doesnt it? Here is a flash for you, we live in a representative government where we elect leaders to do what is right and what they believe in. Most people dont want to be pandered to. They dont want their votes to shift with the polls. They dont want their Senators to lie.
{"commentId":1192176,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192379,"authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
representative government
So..in your view Senators are elected to represent themselves?
{"commentId":1192379,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1203514,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
representative government
So..in your view Senators are elected to represent themselves?
They claim to represent us, but have a reputation of voting their "conscience" when the PIGGYBANK needs fillin'.
{"commentId":1203514,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192030,"authorDomain":"Mars313"}
I think it's funny how the Right Wingers like to say that the Dems "can't end the war" while it is the Right Wing keeping the war going. Every time the Dems try, the Republicans do something to hinder it. It's a voting process, therefor no one party can do anything absolutely.
But maybe they are right, the Dems can't end the war. And the Republican, and the White House can't win it. So it's a stand still. But the Republicans seem to be fine with stalling and playing school-yard games while your friends and family die in the name of a "free Iraq" while we face dangers to our own freedoms here at home. Keep up the good work of Jesus oh faithful Right Wing! These kids will greeted as liberators at the gates of Heaven, right?
{"commentId":1192030,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Mars313"}
- 6 votes
#7 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:10 PM EST{"commentId":1192093,"authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
The Democrats are like the dog that chases cars....they do not know what to do with it, if they happen to catch one. They were elected..now they are unable to govern. Pity. Who will they blame if Bush's successor is a Democrat? In a way, that's even worse for them. Hillary Clinton isn't going to surrender, regardless of what she promises gullible primary voters; to do so would be irresponsible, and she would have to deal with the consequences.
{"commentId":1192093,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
- 7 votes
#8 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:29 PM EST{"commentId":1192099,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
Actually, they are governing, passing bills that they think are appropriate. The Repubs are being obstructionist--but I guess the Dems are to blame for the Repubs' actions now.
{"commentId":1192099,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192109,"authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
You are joking right? When the Republicans were in the majority it was the Republicans fault that the Democrats could not get anything done... NOW... when the Democrats are in the majority it is the Republicans fault that they can not get anything done.
LOL
{"commentId":1192109,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":1192178,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
when the Democrats are in the majority it is the Republicans fault that they can not get anything done.
You seem to want to ignore the fact we have an obstructionist republican president in office who will veto everything to eh Democrats want to change, and in conjunction with the fact the Republicans have almost half the congress and senate the democrats can't over ride the vetoes.
{"commentId":1192178,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192182,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
The Repubs are still able to obstruct, yes.
Which is fine with me, after all, they are the ones who will have to answer to their constituencies soon enough. Right about then they might wish they had followed the will of the people, not the president with a 25% approval.
LOL indeed!
{"commentId":1192182,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1192188,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
Hehehehe a 15% congress obviously needs to listen to someone because listening to Pelosi and Reid has been a dead end. They need to call a vote and replace ineffective leadership.
{"commentId":1192188,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1192190,"authorDomain":"Catch22"}
"IndependentVoter" What a laugh indeed. Do you have no memory of the Republicans railing against Democrats as obstructionist. Do you have no memory of them attacking any fillibusters that they regularly use now. Do you have no understanding that the President is and has been Bush for the last seven years and that he can obstruct like no Congressman with a veto? The fact is the Democrats do not have a majority in the Senate. Liberbman conferences with the Democrats but consistently votes with Bush on war issues. The fact is the Democrats are getting a lot of other things done. The fact when the GOP were in power, Bush signed into law record amounts of pork. Go ahead and back up your assertions with facts.
"When the Republicans were in the majority it was the Republicans fault that the Democrats could not get anything done" Well duh. The Republicans also used unprecendeted abuse of the power of the majority. Why arent the Republicans getting anything done now?
The Democrats are getting done despite Republican obstructionism, but its an uphill battle when you have 49 votes in the Senate and an obstructionist President.
{"commentId":1192190,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Catch22"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1192197,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
The fact is the Democrats are getting a lot of other things done...
...Go ahead and back up your assertions with facts.
I'll bite, what has Congress accomplished?
{"commentId":1192197,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1192209,"authorDomain":"minvasive"}
Are we now beginning to realize that NOTHING gets done under our current two-party system?
{"commentId":1192209,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"minvasive"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192229,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
15% Congress? Might be relevant if they were elected as a group.
And if you look further, you'll see that Repubs in Congress are well lower than the Dems.
{"commentId":1192229,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192254,"authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
Are we now beginning to realize that NOTHING gets done under our current two-party system?
Inertia - the tendency of things to stay how they are - is a difficult thing to overcome. People won't vote for a third party until it shows promise, and the party won't show promise until people vote for it. We all see it, but it's a dilemna.
{"commentId":1192254,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"b-shaughnessy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1192255,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
I want to see about half of each party voted out, barring the almost instantaneous appearance of a sizable 3rd party. Both parties are equally incompetent and it took both parties to put us where we are today. Partisan ranting aside, donkeys and elephants are the problem at a time when we need solutions. Like I said, its a 15% congress because both parties earned that fantastic vote of confidence.
{"commentId":1192255,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192305,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
its a 15% congress because both parties earned that fantastic vote of confidence.
Agreed--the Dems need a backbone and the Repubs need to learn to play well with others. Bush needs to learn that we are not governmed by a monarchy and his way isn't the only way.
{"commentId":1192305,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1192601,"authorDomain":"tj"}
For what it's worth, there is a non-partisan effort underway to get all of the Reps in the House booted in '08 and replaced with better non-career-politician type candidates...
see for yourself: Get Out of Our House
{"commentId":1192601,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"tj"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1202190,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Agreed--the Dems need a backbone and the Repubs need to learn to play well with others. Bush needs to learn that we are not governmed by a monarchy and his way isn't the only way.
Alas, Bush will never learn,an to the dismay of many, the Republicans of today will never play, except with themselves, in anyone's interest but their own. So Democrats had best learn to to play solitaire. An get very good at it.
It is abundantly clear, that it is their [Republicans] nature to be obstructionist, whenever it suits them, an complain about everyone else, when it doesn't.
{"commentId":1202190,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1203526,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Hillary Clinton isn't going to surrender,
.....[?] Lol What government can we "surrender" to?
Oh yea! The one we just installed.
{"commentId":1203526,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1192225,"authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
Catch 22
Bush being incompetent has nothing to do with Reid and Pelosi being incompetent. Nothing.
{"commentId":1192225,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"IndependentVoter"}
- 6 votes
#9 - Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:17 PM EST{"commentId":1192259,"authorDomain":"Boothby"}
Bush being incompetent has nothing to do with Reid and Pelosi being incompetent. Nothing.
I agree, they are incompetent all on their own. Good point.
{"commentId":1192259,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"Boothby"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":1192607,"authorDomain":"tj"}
But there sure is something disconcerting about all the incompetence that regularly gets "selected" to represent you and I.
There's a chance our elected representation actually represents us quite accurately ... scary thought.
{"commentId":1192607,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"tj"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1193383,"authorDomain":"bobneve1"}
Beware lisaed & krisna are paid political posters of the Chimp Brigade. They have no stake in their comments only to refute and blast the Dems by scare tactics. I happen to have "skin in the game" my son will be going to Iraq in a few weeks. If funds get cut off and they have to fly him home I would jump for joy. As Iraq falls into complete and utter chaos The Chimp can say see we could have "won" if we had another 12 to 16 years no matter how many young people die. For those who care and have a loved one or know someone of just cares to comment my blog is: http://wiseguy-skininthegame.blogspot.com/
{"commentId":1193383,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"bobneve1"}
- 3 votes
#10 - Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:56 AM EST{"commentId":1193426,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
Wizeguy:
Do you have proof of this accusation? While I know there are some here who are most likely Republican employees set here to spread disinformation about that is going on in Iraq, do you have proof that these 2 are among them?
{"commentId":1193426,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1193439,"authorDomain":"bobneve1"}
See I can write anything also. Let them deny it. Their comments give them away. I am total anti-war. If they are pro war let them speak it. But the constant bellyaching about how the Dems are cause of it all makes me suspicious. We have had 12 years repub control of congress and 8 years in the White House. The country went into the toilet and its the Dems fault. Give me a freaking break...FORGETABOUTIT!!!
{"commentId":1193439,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"bobneve1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1193469,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
We have had 12 years repub control of congress and 8 years in the White House. The country went into the toilet and its the Dems fault. Give me a freaking break...FORGETABOUTIT!!
Very true; the Democrats have had no power for a long time, and still the Republicans want to blame them for everything.
Hell, they still bring up Clinton every time Bush messes up so what do you expect!!
{"commentId":1193469,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1194025,"authorDomain":"BeneluxBandit"}
{"commentId":1194078,"authorDomain":"bobneve1"}
Neocons to my right, Neocons behind me, Neocons all around me. I must be PARANOID Ohhhhhh Myyyyyyyyyyy.
{"commentId":1194078,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"bobneve1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1194143,"authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
As Doctor Johnny Fever once said " When everybody's out to get you, paranoia is just good thinking."
{"commentId":1194143,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"jdoyle"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1202266,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Beware lisaed & krisna are paid political posters of the Chimp Brigade...
You appear to be suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS). While there is no treatment or cure, you should still discuss the situation with trained pychiatric professional for your own mental health before it progresses into something worse that may result in harm to yourself or society at large.
I agree.
Bush is Deranged.
But how will Wizeguy get a trained psychiatric professional access to help Dubbya?
{"commentId":1202266,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1202618,"authorDomain":"daweb"}
gpnavonod, I believe you are making slanderous comments here about Krisna and Lisaed. Consider your comment reported.
{"commentId":1202618,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"daweb"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1202947,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Wizeguy Beware lisaed & krisna are paid political posters of the Chimp Brigade. They have no stake in their comments only to refute and blast the Dems by scare tactics. I happen to have "skin in the game" my son will be going to Iraq in a few weeks. If funds get cut off and they have to fly him home I would jump for joy. As Iraq falls into complete and utter chaos The Chimp can say see we could have "won" if we had another 12 to 16 years no matter how many young people die. For those who care and have a loved one or know someone of just cares to comment my blog is: http://wiseguy-skininthegame.blogspot.com/
DAWeb
gpnavonod, I believe you are making slanderous comments here about Krisna and Lisaed. Consider your comment reported
@DAWeb Consider keeping up with the conversation as well, so you don't look foolish.
{"commentId":1202947,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1193523,"authorDomain":"onlywords-6"}
During the latter part of the Vietnam War, veterans returning from the conflict were labelled "Baby Killers" because of incidents which came to light (ie. Meli Massacre). Today, anyone who attempts to curb the military action in Iraq or opposes it is labelled as "Unpatriotic". The Democrats are skating because they realize that, technically,they cannot bring this operation to an end. The Republicans are posturing and denouncing because they know that anyone looking at the situation,clearly, would see their hypocrisy. If you are "for the troops", it is better to get 50billion to them than nothing at all and pursue your childish squawking afterwards. Representatives from both parties should be put on a transport plane, given army fatigues and gear and dumped in the middle of the conflict. Then you would see a rapid resolution to this situation.
{"commentId":1193523,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"onlywords-6"}
- 1 vote
#11 - Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:20 AM EST{"commentId":1193526,"authorDomain":"tj"}
A bit more complicated than that Wordpower, but you do highlight the posturing well. The other large component and undercurrent is that no one wants the troops to be in harms way without the resources to carry out the mission as safely as possible.
I expect that until there is a strategic/military end point the funding will flow. Not the other way around...
Folks who want to end the war need a mile marker or exit point and not a bunch more partisan motions to cut funding.
{"commentId":1193526,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"tj"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1202319,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
The other large component and undercurrent is that no one wants the troops to be in harms way without the resources to carry out the mission as safely as possible.
Yea right!........The Mission?.......what was that Mission lately?....was that the Mission Accomplished Mission or the Purple thumbs Mission or the AQ Wipeout Mission or the UnCIVIL War Mission.......or the WMD Easter egg hunt Mission or the Find Saddam in a hole Mission?
What about the "Enough is Enough" Mission?
It's time to come home mission.
{"commentId":1202319,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1194175,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
YOU DONT DO A THING FOR THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF AN ELECTION YEAR.
it might as well be in stone over the house.
people have short term memories.. for both the good and bad... you do all the bad you can get away with in between election years and then "struggle" to do good during the election season.
Notice immigration, gay marriage, etc are back on the back burner.. wait until mid 08 and it will be
THE MEXICANS ARE COMING FOR YOUR BABIES and
PELOCI WANTS TO FORCE YOUR SON TO MARRY YOUR NEIGHBORS SON.
and
WE FINALLY HAVE THE VOTES TO START PULLLING OUT OF THE WAR.
it sucks balls but it is politics and these are politicians. People seem to forget that. Politician equates with scum.. most of them are lawyers what do you expect.. no I dont want to get people mad there are a minority of public servants but they are generally marginilized by the politicians.
{"commentId":1194175,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
- 4 votes
#12 - Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:11 PM EST{"commentId":1200583,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
it sucks balls but it is politics and these are politicians. People seem to forget that. Politician equates with scum.. most of them are lawyers what do you expect.. no I dont want to get people mad there are a minority of public servants but they are generally marginilized by the politicians.
''Now suppose I was an idiot. And suppose I was a member of Congress. But-- I repeat myself.''
--Mark Twain
{"commentId":1200583,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1194778,"authorDomain":"DanLS"}
Who is this a victory for? It seems like we all loose if
The Pentagon confirms the military will not run out of money until mid February, after which all Army bases would cease operations.
"Cease operations"!?
{"commentId":1194778,"threadId":"176980","contentId":"1102138","authorDomain":"DanLS"}
- 1 vote
#13 - Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:47 PM EST{"canLink":false,"threadId":"176980","isPrivate":false}
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