Former Aide Blames Bush for Leak Deceit

Forest Browne:

And more importantly, doesn't it also demonstrate, directly and indirectly, the willingness of middle class elites, deformed middle layers, professionals, subordinated to power, class power, class regimes and class ideology, to reproduce class hierarchies which filter out not only democracy but the truth for the most vile and criminal elements, who uphold this class system of ours? We always ask, how it is that a fully cultured Western regime, like the Weimar regime degenerated into the corporate fascism of Nazi Germany, and how its middle classes became the backbone and shock troops for the corporate and imperial state.

This generic class rot is the basis of my theory of generic class corruption, which explicitly shows how its subordinated middle layers, and upper middle class elites, become part of a class mechanism between it distorted ideology, and distorted social position to the oligarchy and class regimes itself. Only the form changes, from feudal class society to capitalist, corporate fascism.
This class corruption was described by the ancient greeks in class terminology who invented the words oligarchy, plutocracy, tyrants, and empires all part of the same class process and degeneration of the social and democratic principle. Mclellan only spilled the beans of his own role as appeaser of the lies for these criminal class elites.

Keith Olbermann just had John Dean commenting on the situation and Dean said Fitzgerald never closed the investigation and Fitz could subpoena the manuscript, impanel a new Grand Jury and go for it!

Fitzgerald closed down this investigation too soon, and too early. There were many examples out there for him to go after. I doubt he will go after it now. He already dropped the ball earlier.

According to John Dean, it is not closed, dormant not shut, Fitzgerald is good to keep going.

Boy, I wish you are right, Pamel Drew. I will be the first to admit that I was wrong.

Not me, John Dean, former White House Counsel to Nixon during Watergate and Constitutional attorney. I'd never even know to guess if I hadn't caught the show. Sadly the bigger problem doesn't seem to be cause for going after Bush but the lack of Congressional will to do much but ride the clock. Treasonous, but effective.

Not me, John Dean, former White House Counsel to Nixon during Watergate and Constitutional attorney.

Constitutional attorney? You mean he likes to take walks around the office? John Dean is a highly opinionated convicted felon.

John Dean is a highly opinionated convicted felon.

Well it is nice to see we had a Justice system that worked, when the last Imperial Presidential lawbreaker was in office. Hopefully you're not suggesting that serving time for protecting a President, to a far lesser magnitude than what Gonzalez has done, makes Dean unable to look into the law and the actions and call the legal argument for what it is? Get the goggles off, you don't get farther into hard core, Republican tradition than the Nixon White House. These BushCo are common criminals that even the Watergate folks don't want in power. Pat Buchanan, Nixon's speechwriter is another one who thinks Dubbya's burnin' down the house.

...to a far lesser magnitude than what Gonzalez has done,...

The plain fact is that we do not know what Gonzales did, while we know precisely what John Dean did...arranged for payouts to the Watergate burglars, took a plea to a lesser charge of obstructing justice in exchange for helping the prosecution, and was convicted of the felony. What did Gonzales do? He's alleged to have done this and that. The things we know he did are not illegal while the things we don't know he did are alleged to be horrendous, even of greater magnitude than what John Dean did.Ans you know this, how? By connecting dots, and reading between the lines the dots connect?

In the issue at hand, McClellan's book excerpt, we now have explicit denial from McC himself (see Bodhi1 #30) that he was suggesting Bush knew that anything was a lie or that Bush told McC to lie. And that was clear from the excerpt as I pointed out (#21) after the press hysteria, and before McC explained it. The "objective" media was trying to nail Bush et al based on the excerpt. But the excerpt did not justify the irrational conclusion of the AP and other services and bloggers, and posters in this thread. Go back and look at the comments that get the most votes. Irrational bullcarp about what we knew and know. And now that McClellan denies it, what do we get? People suggesting there's even something behind the denial. Typical irrational conspiratorial nonsense.

The plain fact is that we do not know what Gonzales did,

Yet somehow, so many intent on keeping anyone from investigating. Wonder why? Let's talk instead about everything from Clinton's hummer to the Plumbers in Watergate, anything but about this sinking ship.

Diverting attention, shifting blame game, feigning ignorance, and an orchestrated misrepresentation of the facts, are some of the main tactics of this smoke and mirrors administration, and it's autonomic goons.

Let's talk instead about everything from Clinton's hummer to the Plumbers in Watergate, anything but about this sinking ship.

But, Pamela, YOU brought up John Dean and Gonzales, not me.

...this sinking ship.

The issue now was McClellan's book excerpt, and the media, and public response, not sinking ships.
Conspiracists only think they can't talk about it, but it's because they favor speculation that derails the discussion.

As I pointed out before McC explained, the McC book excerpt itself suggested nothing about Bush telling McClellan to lie, though that was the headline in the AP, newspapers and blogosphere. Bush haters MUST subvert their objectivity to continue making their arguments; it's not enough to criticize legitimate, proven (to them) failings, the imagination must be allowed free reign so conspiracies can be constructed. Just imagine if McC had not responded to the rampant speculation and unwarranted conclusions. Wow, what blogospherics we'd have to entertain. Bush knew...Bush told...Bush said...Bush ordered...Bush lied... Just more fodder for unwarranted and irrational discourse.

But as McClellan explains, he never suggested Bush told him to lie about ANYTHING. The conspiracists task is then to expose a massive, non-existent, coverup of such immense proportions that no evidence can be found for it. This thing goes deep, doesn't it?

I'm confused did armitage lie about the leak?
did fitzgerald say he was the only leaker?

Armitage did not lie, though he was late in coming clean. Don't know what Fitzgerald says, but so far as I know no one disputes that Armitage was Novak's original accidental source.

In my opinion, the entire Plame-Wilson affair was a farce that the Plame-Wilson combo designed from the beginning to trap Bush, and, with an abetting press, they succeeded, or so they think.

ahhh so they made up the fake yellow cake documents and gave them to the italian cia to give to us?
and they also made bush use those 16 words, when thos 16 words have already been discounted?
Damn that is one sneaky duo.
LOL give it up, you will lose on this one.
Bush is scum and he commited many crimes, he knew the yellow cake was BS and he encouraged his staff to out a covert cia officer destroying huge lines of intelligence. Had this been a dem leak we would see the man hung for treason.

In my opinion, the entire Plame-Wilson affair was a farce that the Plame-Wilson combo designed from the beginning to trap Bush, and, with an abetting press, they succeeded, or so they think.

Yeah pseudonihilist, they tricked the CIA into sending the most qualified person to gather info in Niger (a real tourist destination by the way) then reporting the info accurately back to the CIA and then tricking Bush, Powell, etc. to lie to the American people, Congress, the UN and the World, Then tricking them into outing Valarie Plame and ruining her career and topping it off with tricking Bush and company into a felonious coverup that continues to this day. Wow! These guys are good. And yet at no time does anyone in the Bush administration spend a day in jail. Amazing indeed.

lets not forget that someone actually forged the documents. that part seems to get lost.

LOL you did know one of the major complains of most of the WH press corps is that they seem to have a very selective way of calling on them, especially on days of serious issues. And then there is the little matter of planted reporters like gay porn star jack gannon.
It isnt the WH has no balls, which i admit they are smaller than in years past, it is that they dont get called when the subject is sticky.

When you don't include the adjective "class" with every noun, you sound like an American.

and in december of 2008, we'll finally know what rudy giuliani said in private to the 9/11 commission.

Who cares?

Patriots.... people who care about this country

Lots of us care very deeply that we have honorable, law abiding officials, accountable to the people and upholding the Constitution. Many are so tired of the crimes we want something to trigger Impeachment.

why are you even here IndependentVoter?
Since you dont care and all.

I just had a series of run-ins with Independentvoter on one of my seeds. I wish to engage him on more serious fundamental failures, but he always wants to find some sliver, or needle to trip up a fact, as if that has anything to do with the wholesale failure of our civil society.

If anyone were ever misnamed, it's IndependentVoter.

Wow, Schnoo, good to see you here.
Thanks for that remark.

LOL nah it i a good name.. if you live in 1984
like the ministry of love, homeland security, the patriot act and all the other cute things that mean the opposite. he's got the pnac, aei, neocon game down.

exactly. this is not news, this is an admission of the bull@!$%# we knew was going on and which we were ridiculed for pointing out.

i'm stuck. totally stuck. if borges and kafka got together, they couldnt invent a more ridiculous reality.

It's almost like the world has become a Fox soap opera. Bad acting, low budgets, stranger-than-fiction realities. Top it off with terrorists and a bunch of John Wayne wannabes with SUVs instead of glorious steeds and it's a Republican's wet dream.

Don't you just feel awful for the righties here on newsvine and elsewhere that were so deluded by the white house as to actually think they were telling the truth? Or did they know they were lying and are just so deluded as to just not care?

I really believ that most Americans can not reconcile the idea of such corruption of their highest offices, like a cheating spouse they live in denial clinging to the tiniest scraps to point to so they can argue that everyone makes some mistakes and overall it is about caring and protecting us, even if we're tortured. It keep them from facing something that may make the flaws in ourselves too consuming.

Don't you just feel awful for the righties here on newsvine and elsewhere that were so deluded by the white house as to actually think they were telling the truth?

i've got no sympathy for those kinds of people, because they are in large part responsible for this. it's not my fault they are too stupid to see the truth in front of their eyes, ignorant or foolish or impossibly hopeful — it all ends up the same way, and the people of america are far more to blame for our reckless policies than the people we elected. this isnt rocket science.

I really believ that most Americans can not reconcile the idea of such corruption of their highest offices, like a cheating spouse they live in denial clinging to the tiniest scraps to point to so they can argue that everyone makes some mistakes and overall it is about caring and protecting us, even if we're tortured. It keep them from facing something that may make the flaws in ourselves too consuming.

That is true, and sad. The Sheep can't comprehend that someone isn't moral just because they won a shotty election. This country was founded on lack of trust for supreme Rulers, but most of our countrymen have been dumbed down. This is why anyone with enough want and connections could take control of this country without any resistance. This is also why those Americans are the laughing stock of this country and the rest of the world.

This is why anyone with enough want and connections could take control of this country without any resistance. This is also why those Americans are the laughing stock of this country and the rest of the world.

Some days it just doesn't pay to be reasonably smart, aware and American. Maybe it's better to be ignorant and go along with this insanity.

better? never. easier? always.

better? never. easier? always.

Agreed, but there are days when you just want to stick your head into a bag of Cheetos and lose it. But I am coming to peace with it. The sheep will be sheep until they decide not to be sheep.

or until they are all inside the slaughter house, then they are just meat and wool.

"To secure these [inalienable] rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776.

Seemed appropriate. But I just have to say that, if I agree with something, someone else has said, and quote it, it is only because that is what I believe as well. And Jefferson is far more eloquent then I am. I have been attacked lately for not having my own opinions and ideas. Just because I share someone's else's. I quote Jefferson because he speaks of those things that made this country, defining the principles in which it was founded on, I believe in this country. I love My country. Bush is not the country! Who is it that said, and I paraphrase; a patriot is someone who will always love his country and respects it. But only respects it's leaders (representatives] when they deserve it? I think it was Franklin.

In my opinion, there is no more quotable figure in US history than my boy T-Jeff... don't let anyone make you feel as if you need to justify quoting Jefferson. He actually understood how this country would fall, and he gave us advice on how to prevent that. If people want to ignore him because of the date, that is their problem.

...The principles of Jefferson are the definitions and axioms of free society. And yet they are denied and evaded, with no small show of success.
...
All honor to Jefferson--to the man who, in the concrete pressure of a struggle for national independence by a single people, had the coolness, forecast, and capacity to introduce into a merely revolutionary document, an abstract truth, applicable to all men and all times, and so to embalm it there, that to-day, and in all coming days, it shall be a rebuke and a stumbling-block to the very harbingers of re-appearing tyranny and oppression.

Your obedient Servant
A. Lincoln--

Letter to Henry L. Pierce

Q: What's the difference between Scott McClellan and a bucket of @!$%#?

........ wait for it........

A: the bucket

Mars313 wins!! Yeaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*bows* thank you! *sniffle* oh God, where do I start? I'd like to thank Big J.C. first of all for dying for my sins and helping Louisiana-Monroe beat Alabama on Saturday... I want to thank my wife and kids for not existing until I am good and ready, and last, but not least, the George W Bush administration for giving Scott McClellan the lies and bull@!$%# to spew forth unto the hive-mind... and also for letting Jesus help Louisiana-Monroe beat Alabama on Saturday.

Praise to our Glorious Leader!

Yep, Scott's going to get to know the underside of the Republican bus reeeal soon.

Thanks for proving, once again, that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, more important than Clinton's penis. Outing CIA officer? War? Health care? These all pale in comparison to a schlong.

I mean, seriously, I've never met a chick who's as obsessed with a woody as you people are.

(and, of course, if you meet one, send her my way. I won't be long.)

Doesn't ANYBODY care when the most powerful man in the world is a liar except me? Clinton should have not only been impeached but also imprisoned for his actions. People say "he's just a man"! For Pete;s sake he's the POTUS!!!!! So how can we EVER EVER EVER accuse anyone in this country for perjury if the POTUS is above the law? People blow that off (no pun intended) but the damage he did to the office is beyond repair and reproach. When I was young they taught us the story of the cherry tree. Look man, I might be fallible but I AM NOT THE POTUS! I remain infuriated. Deriliction of duty is the least pejorative I can find. Bush is worse but it is a damned embarassment that these people have found their way into the most important job in the world.

Yes, and the cherry tree story is a lie, just like Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction and links to Al Qaeda.

Look, after 7 years do you not understand the difference between lying about a private matter that Starr would never have been investigating in the first place if Scaife hadn't been paying him to get Clinton out of office on any pretext he could find, and lying about a pretext for a war of aggression that kills tens of thousands? Yes, I care that the most powerful man in the world is a liar.

Well it is a crime unless it involves lying about sex then it is not a crime.

Unbelievable. Slicks BJs from Monica seems to have totally entranced the RW crowd. Now Monica was not all that bad. Nice and plump, but why are they so bent out of shape that it was not one of them that was getting the service. Will they never forget?

It didn't seem to bother me all that much.

Well, maybe a twinge of envy. :-)

Almost 7 years and they are still hung up on Clinton. Unbelievable. Meanwhile a nut job is in charge of the country at war and has been responsible for at least hundreds of thousands of deaths. Sure, yeah we can see why lying about sex is more important...

Thanks for proving, once again, that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, more important than Clinton's penis. Outing CIA officer? War? Health care? These all pale in comparison to a schlong.

Actually, you are the one mentioning his penis. Envy issues? Independant voter spoke specifically about the crime of perjury. Why are you trying to change the subject?

"But, but, Clinton did that too... waa... waa..."

I'm flabergasted that we do not hold higher standards for this office and people make excuses for the POTUS. Absolutely beside myself. It is precedence of the first order. When you start lying in the office you never, ever know what the truth is again. Is that not the exact case here? Elect someone with integrity.

Elect someone with integrity.

Kucinich is the only one running who fits that description!! (Obama looks pretty good, I just wish he would be pushing for impeachment too.)

Ron Paul?

RON PAUL!

Ron Paul?

Libertarianism is not a viable option.

Ron Paul?

Libertarianism is not a viable option.

Right on!

Elect someone with integrity.

It's a pretty safe bet, though not always the case, that if someone is involved in politics, their integrity is questionable.

In other words, we can only elect someone with integrity when someone with integrity runs.

Ron Paul is a Constitutional Republican

Rah, rah, sis boom bah! Go TBone, go TBone, I-M-P-E-A-C-H, impeach them!!

Perhaps it just seems obvious to me but wouldn't the correct political strategy be to go after an impeachment of both the melded Darth Bush.....what more ammunition could you possibly need, since Bush went on television to proclaim his aides innocence.

Don't you just think they could be swept into office and completely stick up the works of this administration until they can be removed from any type of responsibility.

Brought to you by "You lie and I'll swear to it".

Forest

Wow, nice jump, Pamela!

I just LOL-ed at the visual!

Forest...Brought to you by "You lie and I'll swear to it".

That was fabulous Forest. Do they have partners who will handle your full service financial needs too? Really though, can't we stop the crime and do away with the cloned what's your name, Darth Bush, yes jail *thim*

'Twas not a Good Ship, 'twas a Bad Ship. Hence all th' rodentine passengers an' crew.

"Good morning, my name is Senator John McCain. I'll be your MC, I mean chairman, for these proceedings.

Alright! It's payback time.

Did I say that out loud?

Is this microphone on?

Testing...Testing...

Bomb, Bomb, Bomb....Bomb Bomb Iran...."

Oh so sad, and oh so true. I applaud the bunch of generals that came out against the war, but wish they could have taken some stronger action before they retired. I applaud him for at least eventually spilling the beans, it's better than nothing, I guess.

But I long for the days of the Saturday Night Massacre when important people publicly resigned rather than violate their own morals and sense of justice. They stood up to the President and all his legions of drones, and stood very tall. Where are people like this now?

Probably, Tim, but it could be that there will be evidence that embarasses Congress into taking action. I'm not betting on it. but it will be an interesting 12 months.

I've been saying for a long time now to at least set up an investigation committee, every time something like this comes up we hear more and more about this will be the time. It will not happen, and the best take I've seen on this was from jfxgillis, and that is that if Democrats try the impeachment route, and lose, it would crush them in the next election. They might get it through the house, but there is no way possible it would lead to a conviction in the Senate.

The most powerful leader in the world had called upon me to speak on his behalf

President Bush also ordered McClellan to issue his misleading statement.

Sounds about the same to me.

I'm not clear on whether McClellan knowingly lied or just said what he was told to say. But he issued a misleading statement at the behest of the President.

Jeez, come on will you.

The most powerful leader in the world had called upon me to speak on his behalf...

Actually, the entire sentence is:

The most powerful leader in the world had called upon me to speak on his behalf and help restore credibility he lost amid the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

It's not an order or request related to this specific thing we're discussing; it's a job description. He's explaining what he was hired to do, not what he was ordered to say.

And Plame says

President Bush also ordered McClellan to issue his misleading statement.

which is unjustified based on the excerpt.

But he issued a misleading statement at the behest of the President.

McClellan could easily have said that if that were the case. He didn't say it.

Once Bush is not president anymore he will be free to spend all his time searching for Osama Bin Laden.

Kind of funny that an undercover agent (who's whole life is deception) would say this...

i sense sarcasm in your remarks but maybe thats just me being hopeful.

Let me think on this, shot, Cheney, McClellan....Hummmm I am sure right now Cheney would love to go hunting with McClellan.

Who wouldn't? I bet that guy has some stories to tell...

i say i want a revolution.

We start small Firsty. There is this little fort that has been turned into a museum called Fort Sumpter...