Gazans Knock Down Border, Flee to Egypt

Actually, the bombing helped the Kosavoans. The remaining tensions are internal politics, no more ethnic cleansing.

Which Kosovars are you talking about: Albanians or Serbs? The bombing was to ostensibly help the Albanian Kosovars by stopping alleged Serbian atrocities. Ostensibly. But the bombing actually intensified reactions on both sides, which caused an even greater Albanian exodus from Kosovo.

Meanwhile, as the bombing ended (not before many civilian casualties and certain war crimes), a new humanitarian crisis emerged when the Albanians returned to Kosovo and commenced reverse ethnic cleansing against the Serbs, with NATO looking the other way.

See, the US and EU support the side most amenable to their geo-strategic and economic plans; the disingenuous "humanitarian intervention" spin is proven bull@!$%#e; the hypocrisy and double standards are comical if they weren't so tragic; the reasons given to us for "humanitarian intervention" are never the real reasons.

With the Palestinians, we've got a massive, obvious humanitarian crisis, and the great western "democracies" may grunt or wring hands a little, but that is all.

OK, so we should have not intervened at all. Good idea.

There is a strong case that "western" intervention (covert mostly) prior to and during the Balkan wars is heavily responsible for stirring the pot and ensuring the breakup of Yugoslavia.

In Kosovo, the KLA had a lot of US (CIA and Special Forces training, backing, funding) and European (intel, safe havens) support. Alas, the KLA is equally, if not more, responsible for instigating and enabling the sectarian violence in Kosovo.

Interventions to put order back into the chaos created by previous, covert interventions. You tell me, is that good?

That seems a little childish - punish the children, the infirm, and the innocent for the actions of a relatively small group of lunatics? Works in a classroom, perhaps, but in this situation will likely only get people angrier.

Phew Dennis, good thing you didn't have the misfortune of being born Palestinian. You might not like to be on the receiving end of your atrocious prescription for collective punishment. Do you not understand what a humanitarian crisis is?

Israel is still supplying Gaza with a many truckloads of fuel, food, and medicine. The only things that are being blocked are luxuries. If it's a humanitarian crisis that Gazans can't get Coca-Cola, well, there's a problem with our definition of humanitarian crisis.

Yeah, they are rushing in the thousands (350,000) over the border to have a coke and a smile. That's it. Very thirsty.

Now, back to reality... hey, from an Israeli source even: UN: Some 350,000 Gazans stream into Egypt as militants blast border wall

The Gazans rushed to purchase food, fuel, and other supplies made scarce by Israel's blockade of the Strip...

Why?

Video report on the humanitarian disaster...

Israel eases Gaza blockade amid humanitarian fears

"If the present situation pertains, on Wednesday or Thursday we are going to have to stop food distribution to 860,000 people," Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), told AFP.

The Palestinians can help themselves by stopping the missile bombardment of Israeli civilians in Sderot. That's all they have to do to get Israel to restart supplies. If that's too hard for them then they deserve everything they get.

...

Since when is "electric power" a luxury item, as Israel tortures 1.5 million Palestinians instead of working with them. It's tragic that after this long they still have not mastered how to negotiate with Arabs, that they revert to this type of penny ante leaves tragedy far behind. They need to have their britches drawn into a deep wedgie for being such @!$%#s.

Forest

You could just as easily blame Hamas, however. They're the ones launching rockets into Israeli towns, killing civilians. Under what terms would Hamas agree to stop doing that?

They want Israel to go away, but clearly, that's not going to happen. The Israeli government is under a lot of pressure from their own people to stop the rocket attacks, so they tighten boarder security in Gaza, which effectively causes the Palestinians to detest the Israeli's more. However, if they relax boarder security, the rocket attacks and suicide bombers will only increase.

It's a stalemate, because neither side is going to pack in, and leave the region. But, ideology is too strong to simply state "they should work together" and have that mean anything.

This is an issue of fundamentalism, which can only be changed with tolerance education.

Extremists on both sides do not want a two state solution.

Actually Israel and the US have been the ONLY countries to oppose the two state solution, no matter their rhetoric UN votes count as a distinct marker to their opposition. The tragedy here is the fact that Israel and the US know this won't work, but they don't really want it to, where else would Israel expand to? The US supports them as our best ally in the area, unless they can get Iraq straightened out, which they won't. So take a little time and research what they've really done beforehand driving this crazy political dance that is essentially driven by money and greed.

Forest

As far as I'm aware, Hamas does not want a two state solution either. That's what their charter states anyway.

don't pretend that this argument doesn't have *at least* two sides of perpetration.

Actually Israel and the US have been the ONLY countries to oppose the two state solution, no matter their rhetoric UN votes count as a distinct marker to their opposition.

Really?? So when Barak basically handed Arafat everything he wanted on a silver plate in 2000 and was rejected... that's a sign of Israel and the US opposing the two state solution? Barak's move cost him the premiership and he lost many of his supporters, but at least he tried his hand at peace. I also find your statement so baffling because the Labour party in Israel has wanted peace since the mid-80s, but since you're just so up on your research, you already know that. You'd also know that this was stopped by American Jews, both in the mid-80s and the mid-90s.

Since when is "electric power" a luxury item, as Israel tortures 1.5 million Palestinians instead of working with them. It's tragic that after this long they still have not mastered how to negotiate with Arabs, that they revert to this type of penny ante leaves tragedy far behind.

Do I need to remind you of the "shock and awe" campaign in Iraq, in which America destroyed most of the Iraqi infrastructure, which it has yet to even try to rebuild (one of the reasons Iraq is still such a haven for terrorists). Or should I point even closer to home. You talk about how Israel is torturing the Palestinians, but what about the sanctions the US imposes on the desperate people of Iran and North Korea, who have no say in their governance and yet are are punished for their governments' actions.

The difference in the situations is that children in Gaza are told from an early age that Israel is terrible and only wants the worse for them (look up Farfur on youtube). The number of videos I have seen presented in children's schools which depict Israelis as inhumane occupiers are as numerous as they are despicable. And let's not forget that the Hamas leadership doesn't exactly want the best for its people. People who have nothing to live for are easily convinced to die for something they believe in.

That seems a little childish - punish the children, the infirm, and the innocent for the actions of a relatively small group of lunatics? Works in a classroom, perhaps, but in this situation will likely only get people angrier.

The border with used to be quieter. Since the Israelis decided to end the occupation [of all of Gaza] and turn it over to the the Palis to run-- one would have expected that the would become more peaceful.

However the end of the Israeli occupation of Gaza resulted in the same thing that happens everytime Israel makes a concession. The Palestinians see it as a sign of weakness-- and becoming even more violent.

They are now firing missiles with great frequency. These deliberately target Israeli schools and houses as well as other civilian targets.

They are shooting over the border at civilian kibbutz workers. They recently murdered a volunteer from Ecuador.

Ecuadorian Volunteer Didn't Stand A Chance Against Palestinian Sniper.

Twenty one year old Carlos Andres Chavez did not stand a chance. As he helped the farmers along with other volunteers in the fields of Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha, a Palestinian sniper shot him in the back.

Angered and stunned by the tragedy, kibbutz members lashed out at the government and army for failing to provide them with the necessary protection. Daily they tend to the fields and are forced to contend with Palestinian sniper fire as well as mortar shell attacks. Now they said the government has demanded they halt all work in the fields close to the Gaza border until further notice..

So-- in addition to firing missiles at homes...they are shooting farm workers-- They just shot a 20 year old in the back--murdering him. Very few countries in that situation would show the restraint that Israel has shown. [Most countries would probably have launched a massive invasion by now...to say the least].

What would you do if you were in the same position as the Israelis...?

Extremists on both sides do not want a two state solution.

True. There were times when the Israeli government in power did not--and was actually opposed to the idea of an independent Palestine. But governments come and governments go...the current Israeli government is committed to a two state solution. In fact they unilaterally took steps towards implementing this-- ending the long occupy of Gaza. Pulled out completely. No longer a Jew in the entire Gaza strip. [That's when the Palis stepped up their violence...].

But--the current Israeli government wants a two state solution-- and has made a major concession toward this. [Remember all those settlements in Gaza-- the onews that were supposed to be a ''permanent obstacle to peace''? Well-- they tore them down-- and left Gaza-- completely!]

Sure there are extremsists on both sides. But those in Israel are currently out of power. Unlike the Israeli gov't however--Hamas is opposed to any compromise. They want it all [a judenfrei mid-east]. They have resisisted any attempt to change their position-- which is the complete destruction of Israel.

What you say is true, Krishna, and you seem well researched on the matter.

However, you may be underestimating the number and power of the Israelis that are against a two state solution. When I visited Israel last summer, I saw a lot of orange ribbons (signifying a political desire to retain one state) especially in Jerusalem.

While the official position of the government is a two state solution, the factions within the government that don't want it are fairly strong.

I do agree, however, that is Hamas was more willing to reach a solution, it probably would have happened already.

There's also a problem that, whenever there is a ceasefire or peace negotiations start, the rocket fire never really stops. So a cease-fire seems more like Israel agreeing to stop responding to rocket attacks if the militants scale back their attacks.

Or maybe, Hamas doesn't have as much control over their (and other) organization as we'd like. They don't have much say over what other groups do, even if they were agreeable to a solution. There is a notable lack of leadership and unity in Gaza.

However, you may be underestimating the number and power of the Israelis that are against a two state solution. When I visited Israel last summer, I saw a lot of orange ribbons (signifying a political desire to retain one state) especially in Jerusalem.

Actually, I think you may have misunderstood what you saw. The orange ribbons signify solidarity with the settlers, not because they reject a two-state solution, but because the settlers are fellow Israelis who have a right to their homes, which the government is not amply compensating them for. The orange ribbon is an indicator that, as an Israel, you disagree with how your fellow citizens are being treated by the government.

While the official position of the government is a two state solution, the factions within the government that don't want it are fairly strong.

Again, those strong factions you speak of are a minority of religious-right extremists, no different than Mike Huckabee, which due to some imperfections in the Israeli political system, are given far too much influence. In essence, the Shas party, an ultra-Orthodox party of slimebags, told PM Olmert that if he makes any concessions to the Arabs than they will drop out of the coalition, and he will lose his position. Olmert, like Bush, is an extremely unpopular PM who is only in power because of this coalition, and has to tread carefully in establishing any sort of permanent concessions.

You might not like to be on the receiving end of your atrocious prescription for collective punishment

But what about the collective punishment the Palis are dishing out to the Israelis? Shooting rockets-- deliberately aimed at civilian targets-- schools ad homes? Shootings-- also civilians? Suicide bombers in buses..even discotheques?

@Blujohnnyd, Gas Pants Press et al:

I stand 100% behind what I said and I don't think my humanitarian credentials are compromised one iota.

I have no sympathy whatever for the Palestinians in Gaza. They know perfectly well that all they have to do is stop shelling Sderot to get the block on supplies lifted, and they hate Israel so much they would rather starve, or worse still turn their misery into a media spin opportunity ... "oh, the cruel Israelis, see how they oppress us ..." yadda yadda yadda ... knowing that bleeding heart lefties in the west will lap it up.

All they care about is destruction of Israel by whatever means. You could send in a convoy with every manner of produce known to man and they would curse you for taking away they opportunity to put pressure on Israel.

And the argument about collective punishment is well wide of the mark. It's not as if the Hamas leadership is pursuing the policy of bombarding Sderot against the will of the common people. Where are the voices of reason and common sense? Where are the protests saying "Enough! It's not worth starving to death so we can keep firing missiles at schools in Israel. Nothing is worth this. Let's give it up and rethink what we're doing!"

Israel is an internationally recognised state. The Palestinians may (and do) hate it and wish it gone, but it's there and legal and there is no justification whatever for firing missiles at Israeli civilians. The fact that they are dependent on Israel for power and supplies makes their policy stupid as well as wrong. And you want us to feel sympathy for them?

None. Zero. Flat zippo. Israel should enforce the blockade until they squeak. Let's see if they hate Israel enough to actually starve. I think they would at some point hit their limit and ultimately see sense. It would be better all round in the long run, and better than another mass Israeli incursion.

Don't forget to close the "gate" on the way out!

Just give Gaza back to Egypt.

Actually that has bee considered. I fact I believe that it was suggested-- but the Egyptians don't want it. They know that if the Palis don't have Jews nearby to kill-- they would be more than happy to terrorize Egyptians. [Since Israel ended its occupation of Gaza-- Hamas has been torturing ad murdering Fatah sympathizers. Some of what they do is usually cruel...

The Egyptians don't need that headache. [And besides-- Hamas is a fundamentalist group-- the Egyptians already have enough problems with their own fundamentalist crazies].

Of course Egypt does not want them. Look what they did to Lebanon.

It's true that Egypt doesn't want the Palestinians back. They know it would be a huge political disaster for them because, unlike Israel, they would simply quell resistance by use of mass force, regardless of innocent lives lost. The civilian casualties would be great, Hamas would vanquish, but it would be the end of autonomous rule for the Palestinians.

I love that the new UN Human Rights Council, created in 2006 after the last one was disbanded for being too anti-Israel, is again damning Israel. What a surprise.

And, at the same time, the international community has raised aid for the Palestinians. Because that money really makes it into the hands of the people who need it.

Of course Egypt does not want to be responsible for Gaza. Who in their right mind would? It is still the best solution, but I don't blame the Egyptians for being less than enthusiastic.

Here is how they handled it yesterday.

Many in Gaza have wanted to do this for years. Unfortunately for them, nobody seems to want them. I wonder how Egypt is going to handle this now.

Egyptian border police aren't exactly too humanitarian when it comes to border crossers. Here's what they did to some Darfurians who were trying to escape from Arab persecution-- and to find freedom in Israel: Egyptians "lynch" 4 Sudanese trying to cross border to Israel

For those who are unable to see the video in #8 -

''Murdered Kibbutz Volunteer Shot in the Back by Hamas Terrorists:

Carlos Andrés Mosquera Chávez, a 20-year-old volunteer from Ecuador, was killed by a PA Arab sniper from Gaza as he was working in the potato fields of Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha. Hamas claimed responsibility for the murder.

''Chávez was from Quito, Ecuador and was working about 100 meters from the Gaza security fence. He and his friend David Lanas had stopped for a snack when the shooting began. They ran for cover, but Chávez was struck by a bullet in the back. He managed to say, "Los muy malditos me dieron en la espalda" (the bastards shot me in the back) before collapsing in David's arms.

"Only yesterday, we spoke with him, laughed with him." Carlos had heard about Israel and Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha, established by immigrants from South America in the 1950s, from a relative who had visited there, and he was eager to go because he wanted to study abroad. He was to have celebrated his 21st birthday on January 20. Read it all

The media cannot spin a story that doesn't show pan-arab nationalism. It doesn't fit with the tale they're spinning.

It is not all right to mete out collective punishment against the Palestinians. What they need is their own country so they can sort out their own problems.

When Gaza was occupied by Israel things were quieter. Its only when the decided to end the occupation of aza-- and turn Gaza over to the Palesdtinians that the Palis started intense rocket bombardment-- and shootning.

. It is not all right to mete out collective punishment against the Palestinians.

How do you feel about the collective punishment the Palestinians have been meting out against the Israelis? Seems like a double standard o your part....

You say "the Palestinians," not the combatants or the militants. What about the many who are leading ordinary lives (or those trying to under extremely difficult circumstances)? They all are affected by border closings, not just the bad guys.

Collective punishment is actually a war-crime per the Geneva conventions.

Collective Punishment means withholding something to which the Gazans, in this case, have a right to. Gaza has no right to trade with Israel. Gaza only trades with Israel at the consent of Israel and Gaza. When Israel withdraws that consent, it's perfectly legal.

Would it be "collective punishment" and illegal (per the Geneva Conventions, not NAFTA or anything) if the US closed the border with Canada to all trade?

You say "the Palestinians," not the combatants or the militants. What about the many who are leading ordinary lives (or those trying to under extremely difficult circumstances)? They all are affected by border closings, not just the bad guys.

But-- when the border is open-- the ordinary civilians in Israel suffer. Getting blown up by a terrorist is also a form of collective punishment. Do you think there are only innocent Palis...

Actually the Israelis have kept their border open for long periods. they have provided jobs for Palestinians. And health care. But-- they had to stop-- the Palestiais wetre too violet.

Ad-- Egypt also kept their border closed-- why only blame Israel? Seems lie you have a double standard here...

Collective Punishment means withholding something to which the Gazans, in this case, have a right to. Gaza has no right to trade with Israel. Gaza only trades with Israel at the consent of Israel and Gaza. When Israel withdraws that consent, it's perfectly legal.

Would it be "collective punishment" and illegal (per the Geneva Conventions, not NAFTA or anything) if the US closed the border with Canada to all trade?

What about the ''collective puishmet'' the Eyptiaseforcedo the azas by eepig the Egyptia border closed...there's a double standard here...

Hear hear

More in the same manner that the Berlin Wall was "knocked down."

10.2

Not at all:

1989: Berliners celebrate the fall of the Wall

The Twin Towers? We're talking about a fence here. That anology doesn't even come close to making sense.

Green Henry @ 10.4

It does if the headline says "knocked down" when explosives were used.

Do you really not see the difference between the destruction of two occupied buildings which resulted in about 3000 deaths and the destruction of a stretch of fence?

If you're just referring to explosives, which I don't think is really your point, would it be important to you, would it make this act more permissible in your eyes, if some Palestinians had driven over the fence with bulldozers?

Of course it wouldn't, because the manner in which one destroys a fence is totally irrelevant. The fence itself is only significant because it's a border crossing. The fact is, it used to seperate Gaza from Egypt and now doesn't, that is the only significance in its destruction.

So, as is quite obvious, the only point of your anology is that a reference to the destruction of the twin towers is supposed to strike a chord with people.

Well-- it seems that they were working on it for months--

But a Hamas border guard interviewed at the border today admitted that the Islamist group was responsible and had been involved for months in slicing through the heavy metal wall using oxy-acetylene cutting torches.

10.6

Not at all - my quibble is with the headline. Why not say that the Pals/Hamas blew up the border wall?

So, as is quite obvious, the only point of your anology is that a reference to the destruction of the twin towers is supposed to strike a chord with people.

If anything, it seems the point of your post was to strike a chord against people who say anything remotely unpatriotic about 9/11.

What epiphany sorbet was saying, is that the media loves treating Palestinians as victims because it suits the storyline they have going.

If anything, it seems the point of your post was to strike a chord against people who say anything remotely unpatriotic about 9/11.

I don't follow.

You saw a reference to your precious national tragedy and didn't want its name tarnished by being associated in any way, shape, or form by association, even by analogy, with the Palestinians. So instead of looking at what epiphany was actually saying, you misconstrued his statements and tried to debunk them, all for the sake of protecting your precious.

Now I get it, but you're completely wrong. I saw a cheap attempt to associate what the Palestinians did (blowing up a fence) with something completely different and far more serious (blowing up occupied buildings). It isn't that the anology tarnishes 9/11, it's that it absurdly exagerates the gravity of destroying a stretch of fence. I saw Epiphany using a cheap ploy to try and make her point and called her on it.

Alright, point taken. But epiphany was definitely trying to draw attention to the euphemism in the title by asking how we would have reacted if that same euphemism was used to describe what happened to the twin towers. The fence was not knocked down peacefully like the Berlin Wall. Instead, it was a deliberate action by a terrorist organization trying to wiggle its way out of an inevitable civil war, and shockingly the media portrayed it as nothing of that sort.

Except that the Egyptians don't seem to want the fence down... I wonder how much they care about there palestinian 'brothers'... It seems as if they like their treaties with Israel more.

mee:

Except that the Egyptians don't seem to want the fence down...

They don't seem to have much of an option anymore, now, do they?

Fences are merely the least casualty-causing option. Look at #6.1 for some of Egypt's other options.

Maybe Hamas should start caring about the Palestinian people instead of hiding behind the women's skirts while firing rockets into Israel.

And why did they fire rockets in the first place?

Is it because Israel has been killing, raping, and strip-searching their children?

Is it because Israeli soldiers use Palestinian children as human shields?

Is it because Israel has been bulldozing their homes and stealing their land?

Is it because Israel has been committing terrorist acts, international war crimes, and crimes against humanity on Palestinian civilians?

Answer - All of the above

Show proof of raping, and strip-searching their children
I think you meant to say Palestinians use Palestinian children as human shields?
Stealing their land. Gaza is under Palestinian control.
All your finger pointing is at Israel. The Palestinians never shoot rockets, blow up buses, restaurants, disco, etc...

I'm glad to know Phree that you've done so much research on the topic to make such huge claims. Could you please point me to your sources?

Because seeing as how I have friends in the IDF and have been in the crosshairs of Hizballa myself, I think your only sources are Al-Jazeera and some numb-nut liberal book.

Is it because Israel has been killing, raping, and strip-searching their children?

Is it because Israeli soldiers use Palestinian children as human shields?

Is it because Israel has been bulldozing their homes and stealing their land?

Is it because Israel has been committing terrorist acts, international war crimes, and crimes against humanity on Palestinian civilians?

No. Have you read a newspaper in the past two and half years? Israel is no longer occupying Gaza. Understand? Can you repeat that back to me so I know you heard me?

And why did they fire rockets in the first place?

It seems to me that Hamas has a plan and it does not include the well being of the Palestinians and it most certainly does not included the well being of Israel.

phree, just in case you still believe them left wing demagogues, check out this quote from a recent article:

Al-Zahar's 24-year-old son Hussam was one of 19 Palestinians killed Tuesday in an Israeli operation against Gaza rocket squads. Scenes of al-Zahar weeping as he kissed his dead son's forehead were shown on Israeli news broadcasts Tuesday.

''Our hearts break when our sons are killed but we don't have any other choice,'' al-Zahar said. ''It hurts but we have a homeland and holy sites that are more important than them.''

Apartheid Wall... hahahaha.

How ya like them apples, Jimmy Carter?

The ratio of Palestinians killed to Israeli's killed is 40:1.

Since when is war equal. If you are attacked you attack back to hurt your enemy not balance out the numbers. Your goal is to make your enemy submit.

So let me get this right, correct me if I'm wrong. Dana Perino said that Hamas lobs upwards of 150 rockets a day into Israeli settlements.. and in six years, 12 civilians have been killed? Hamas has shot almost 55,000 rockets at Israel, and killed 12 civilians?

Somehow these numbers don't seem to add up. How many palestinians have been killed in retaliation for the deaths of these 12 Israeli civilians?

First of all they are not aimed at settlements-- they are aimed at homes and schools in Sderot-- which is not a settlemet-- its a regular town in Israel proper-- not Gaza or the West Bank.

I don't know the exact number of rockets-- but I doubt if it was ever even close to 150/day. And-- while they've been doing it for years-- they really haven't been shooting a lot-- until Israel ended its occupation of Gaza. The end of that occupation is what caused the Palis to increase the violence. [That's also why there's so little violence from the West Bank-- is still occupied. ;-]

Whatever the number fired-- only a small percent inflict casualties. That's because they are very inaccurate-- many fall in empty fields. Its the same reason that only a small percent of the same rockets killed anyone-- when fired by Hizb'Allah during its recent war with Israel. [Although Hizb'Allah loaded its rockets with cluster bombs-- apparently the Palis haven't figured out how to do that yet].

And of course in addition to firiing rockets-- the Palis are also shooting across the border-- they recently murdered a Ecuadorian farm worker.

And of course in addition to firiing rockets-- the Palis are also shooting across the border-- they recently murdered a Ecuadorian farm worker.

Phree, dear. Do you know why that ratio is so skewed? Do you know that these rockets are manufactured inside civilian factories, amongst the civilian population, and that the only way to stop their creation is to try to be as accurate as possible in striking it, so as to minimize such casualties?

Do you know how many brave IDF soldiers died unnecessarily because they were doing their best not to hit civilians, only to be shot in the back by an adolescent who should have been at school?

The ratio of Palestinians killed to Israeli's killed is 40:1.

Do you have any idea what the ratio of Japanese killed [total of military plus civilian deaths] to Americans was in WWII? Does this mean that Imperial Japan was the ''good guys''?

While Imperial Japan were not the "good guys" many would argue that the US was wrong to use the atom bomb, especially the second strike. I think your analogy is pretty accurate in portraying a situation in which both sides are in the wrong but one is far stronger than the other and, as a result the weaker side, though in the wrong, suffers disproportionately.

Also to get their hands on things like cigarettes not to mention weapons to smuggle back into Gaza.

And also in many cases to get their hands on more explosives, guns, and other weapons to smuggle into Gaza.

The article said that people didn't seem interested in Egyptian guns because guns were already easy to find in Gaza. It's food and the like that they are in Egypt for.

Were they trying to escape Israel or Hamas?

Were they trying to escape Israel or Hamas?

This may help answer your question [On that page-- if it asks you to register-- you do not have to. Just click ''continue without registering'' near the bottom];

If the Gazans are getting a little hungry that is tough, stop firing rockets into Israel. If they want food and electricity, stop firing rockets into Israel. If Hamas wants a rightful place in world political history, stop listening to their Iranian and Syrian handlers.

Most people don't realize it-- but there was a time Palestinians from Gaza regularly passed freely into Israel to work-- every day. It was a ''win-win'' scenario-- the Palis got jobs-- the Jews got a solution to shortages of labourers .

But Israel stopped this.Why?

Because simply stated...they were getting tired of terrorists blowing themselves up on Israeli buses...the disco...pizza parlour etc. The Palestinians are the cause of their own problems.

So basically - you say EVERYTHING is the Palestinians fault? Sorry but BOTH sides hold fault here. You tried to liken Palestine lobbing rockets into Israel to Canada or Mexico doing it the US. That is not a correct analogy. If the US invaded Canada and forced all of the Canadians into a small portion of Ontario, declared them second class citizens and then basically created a NAzi inspired Ghetto - then you might have an analogy if canada was lobbing rockets.

Its sad that the Israelis learned the art of Ghetto-Creation from the Nazis because that is what they did by walling the palestinians in and cutting off FOOD and basic neccessities.

Yes, there are Palestinians to blame too. The men who fight back against what they view as an occupying force that stole their homeland sometimes go to far and kill innocent children. Unfortunately, palestinian fighters are called terrorists while we call the men from Israel noble soldiers. We call the dead in PAlestine "Terror victims" while we call the innocent dead in Palestine "Collateral damage".

If you don't think that Israel wants to choke the life out of palestine, look at who built the wall between palestine and egypt - ISRAEL. If any group of people in this world should know how to effectively begin genocide, it should be the jews because it happened to them. They know what they are doing by starving the palestinian people. They should look back at their own history and tell themselves that genocide is unacceptable.

Personally, I think there are a lot people to blame in the Middle East. Peace is a long way off (all though the Shrub declared it possible befoe he leaves office). There are very few innocents in that situation and Israel isn't one of them.

No. It is the Palestinians fault. They are only "locked in a ghetto" because they won't stop firing rockets on the civilians of an internationally recognised state. That is wrong whichever way you look at it.

Israel has no magic weapon to protect its civilians but it does have a duty to protect them. It has tried many things, some more and some less successful, but it is hard when you are facing hate-obsessed extremists who would sooner die or starve than come to terms with an enduring Israel.

Yes it is 100% the Palestinians fault. The fault of their blind hatred and distorted priorities. Nothing can be allowed to stop the attempted murder of Israeli civilians, even at the expense of their misery and impoverishment. So be it. Their choice. No sympathy from me. They are getting more restraint from Israel than they deserve. Much more. If it wasn't for all the bleeding heart bleating from left wing "humanitarians" this nonsense would have been brought to a head by now and stopped.

NAzi inspired Ghetto

Nazi Ghettos forbade the inhabitants from leaving. And what are the Gazans doing right now, without Israel stopping them? Leaving. Therefore, Gaza is not a Nazi-inspired ghetto.

They know what they are doing by starving the palestinian people. They should look back at their own history and tell themselves that genocide is unacceptable.

What genocide? The Palestinians weren't going to be starved. As Israeli leaders said since the blockade began, they always planned on allowing food aid to enter. Maybe the Gazans wouldn't be able to get Coca-Cola, but they'd have food. And unless "denying Coca-Cola" constitutes genocide, there has not been, is not currently, and never will be a genocide of Palestinians by Israelis.

However, I do agree with you that Israelis are to blame to some extent. I do believe, though, that the Palestinians are mostly to blame. You've earned at least a modicum of respect from me for not blaming the j00s entirely, as other commentors do on a regular basis.

Its sad that the Israelis learned the art of Ghetto-Creation from the Nazis because that is what they did by walling the palestinians in and cutting off FOOD and basic neccessities.

To be fair, the Jews, not the Israelis, learned the "art of Ghetto-Creation" from the Italians in those splendid post-Renaissance years. About four hundred years before your absurd claim.

The men who fight back against what they view as an occupying force that stole their homeland sometimes go to far and kill innocent children.

When exactly was it their homeland? When it was a partially unoccupied desert in late 19th century? Or did it become their homeland in the 50s, after tens of thousands of Israelis, who already suffered the Holocaust, gave their lives to making an uninhabitable piece of land into the heaven it is today?

And really... go too far? That's how you're going to euphemize the indiscriminate slaughter of innocent civilians (miles away from military targets)? You know, every year I visit my grandparents grave at the Haifa cemetary. At the entrance to that part of the cometary, are the plots for victims of terror. Of the many sad stories there, the one that always gets me are the 5 graves joined together. Three generations of one family, the grandfather, the father, his two children, and their cousin. Blown up by a Palestinian woman at a restaurant not far from the site of their graves. But I guess she just went too far in her symbolic protest. She should've blown up five people in Tel Aviv, you know, sixty miles closer.

As for: They should look back at their own history and tell themselves that genocide is unacceptable.

I think you should look back at your own history. Because unless you're from Asia, at one point in YOUR history, you probably slaughtered one of my ancestors. Open up a Jewish history book, see for yourself. If you trace your genealogy a few centuries back to Europe, then its probable multiple generations of your family have committed atrocities against the Jews, whether in the Rhineland, the Pale of Settlement, Italy, France, Spain, or England. So if you're going to try to tell me about my history with genocide, come better prepared than Nazi Germany.

Its sad that the Israelis learned the art of Ghetto-Creation

Gaza borders two counntries-- Israel and Eypt. Until they knocked down the Egyptian Apartheid wall--the borders of both countries were sealed to them. So-- why is it you onlyblame Israel?

Even the media is biased-- they go on and on about how Israel won't let this through and won't let that through. Well-- Egypt also wasn't letting stuff through.

[As you originally stated

Sorry but BOTH sides hold fault here.

That also goes for keeping the Palestiias in Gaza. Ad if enough food isn't being allowed in-- the Eyptians were just as culpable as the Israelis.

Re: the title, is it still "fleeing", if they, you know come back? With Coke, and goats?

The media likes to use the ''term ''flee'' to imply that somehow they were living under horrible conditions becauee of the Israelis [totally ignorig Egypt's role in keeing their Apartheid wall standing].