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WASHINGTON — The former head of the Democratic National Committee doubted Thursday whether chairman Howard Dean would be able to get approval for a plan for do-over presidential nomination contests in Florida and Michigan.
"It'll be a hellacious battle," said Don Fowler, a former DNC chairman who sits on the party's rule-making committee.
Before the primaries started, "Howard Dean had enough votes to get most everything he wanted. Now that this thing has gone as far as it has and the lines have formed according to candidates, I'm not sure how that vote would shake out now," said Fowler, who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.
He said everything is being viewed in terms of how it benefits a particular candidate, not the party or the process.
Nonetheless, Fowler said, something has to be done, "the rules be damned" to seat delegates from states Democrats have to and can win in the general election. "We're going to forfeit those two big states? What kind of fools would we be," he said.
Officials in Michigan and Florida have shown renewed interest in holding repeat presidential nominating contests, and Dean has urged party officials in both states to come up with plans for how that can be done so their delegates can be counted at the national convention in late August.
"All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated," Dean said Thursday during interviews on network and cable TV news programs.
Dean said the parties will have to find the money to pay for new contests.
"We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race," he said. The DNC offered to pay for an alternative contest in Florida last summer but was turned down, officials at the party say.
Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, another of Clinton's supporters, also called for a new Florida primary, but paid for by the national party.
Cost may be a barrier to holding new elections. During a meeting Wednesday among House Democrats from Florida and Michigan, Rep. Alcee Hastings of Florida relayed estimates that another primary would cost the state between $22 million and $24 million, a vote-by-mail contest would cost at least $8 million and the bill for a caucus would be about $4 million, said Hastings spokesman David Goldenberg.
The Michigan governor, top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign and Florida's state party chair all now say they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. Officials in both states previously had insisted that the primaries held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated.
Clinton said she's waiting to see what proposals are put forward.
She won both contests, but no delegates. The results were meaningless since the elections violated national party rules. The DNC stripped both states of their delegates for holding the primaries too early, and all Democratic candidates — including Clinton and rival Barack Obama — agreed not to campaign in either state. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.
"I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise anyone," Clinton said at a news conference Thursday. "Therefore I am still committed to seating their delegations, and I know they are working with the Democratic Party to determine how best to proceed."
She said it would be especially unfair to punish the 1.7 million Floridians who voted in the Democratic primary since the Republican-controlled Legislature and the state's Republican governor changed the date.
"They clearly believed that their votes would count, and I think that there has to be a way to make them count," Clinton said.
Obama's campaign said Thursday that it will be up to the DNC to decide how to handle the dispute. Spokesman Bill Burton said, however, that under no circumstances should Clinton be allowed to benefit from the contests.
Asked whether the campaign would pay for a do-over election, Burton said: "Our campaign is going to support whatever the DNC rules are, including a fair remedy to this problem."
Florida and Michigan moved up their dates to protest the party's decision to allow Iowa and New Hampshire to go first, followed by South Carolina and Nevada.
"The rules were set a year and a half ago," Dean said. "Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."
___
Associated Press writer Jim Davenport in Columbia, S.C., contributed to this report.
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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- Groups: Election News, Left of Center, Political Analysis, The Bigger 2008 Election
- Regions: United States , Washington DC
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8.9
{"commentId":1548567,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
Perhaps Hillary should have tried to work out a fair vote if she wanted them to count.
{"commentId":1548567,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
- 6 votes
#1 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 5:16 PM EST{"commentId":1549073,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
The vote in FL was fair. Moreover, why is it her job to "work out a fair vote"? Just because she won? I don't see that Obama tried to "work out a fair vote". Are you saying Obama therefore didn't "want them to count"?
The FL delegate should be seated. And MI can split their delegates 50/50 for all I care, or she could keep her votes and he could receive all the rest - they all (DNC included) come together to work on that, sure. But I don't see Obama taking the lead to enfranchise these people. Wonder why?
{"commentId":1549073,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1549107,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
The vote in FL was fair.
You have incredibly terrible judgement.
{"commentId":1549107,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1549142,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
You have incredibly terrible judgement.
You have a tendency to make unsupportable one-off statements, devoid of detail or reason. Does it make you feel good? You come across as either a bully, or the unpopular kid at the back of the class, muttering about those around him. It makes it incredibly hard to take you, or your drive-by insults, all that seriously.
The FL vote was more fair than some other, random state, where one candidate outspent the other by 2 to 1. The FL vote was more fair than some other, random state, where the loser of the popular vote still got more delegates. The FL vote was, thank god, a primary, and not a patently unfair caucus.
I could point out dozens of votes which were more unfair than FL. All the candidates were on the ballot. They didn't campaign. The people voted, in record numbers. And they voted for Clinton. Don't like that? Tough luck. But FL was perhaps the most fair of any of the primaries so far.
Just because my judgement isn't the same as yours doesn't make it "incredibly terrible", except in your opinion. And you know how much that means to me. So next time write an actual reply, or save us both some time and don't answer at all.
{"commentId":1549142,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549169,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
The Democrats could have avoided all of this if they'd simply done what the Republicans did and penalized both states in the number of delegates both would bring to the table. That would have accomplished both the goal of both penalizing them for jumping the gun on their primary dates and allowing for their voices still to be heard.
{"commentId":1549169,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549322,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Stating that there was anything fair at all about the Florida elections shows terrible judgement.
That's a fact.
{"commentId":1549322,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549334,"authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
Bill - " ... done what the Republicans did .."
agreed this was a good compromise. somehow i predict the Dems will wind up doing similarly.
{"commentId":1549334,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
{"commentId":1549389,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
That's a fact.
No. It's your opinion. I hate to have to be the one to inform you of this, but something being your opinion doesn't make it a fact. Crushing, I know.
Glad to see you rose to my challenge to provide something meaningful. Wonderful to see it, really. My heart glows with the effort you've shown poor, pitiful me.
This is me being appreciative. No, really.
{"commentId":1549389,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549615,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Here's an idea. Show me how disenfranchising millions of people by telling them their votes won't count, which causes them to never go to the polls - is fair. If you can show me that is fair, I will recant my comment about your judgement.
{"commentId":1549615,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549644,"authorDomain":"tanzarian"}
Chain of events: FL and MI consider moving up their primary dates in violation of DNC rules. DNC says doing so will result in stripping of delegates. State Democratic parties move up primary dates anyway. DNC strips states of delegates.
It sucks for the voters, but they have their own state parties to blame. I agree with B. Harrison. It would have been better to halve their delegates. But the rules are the rules, and changing them mid-game because one candidate will benefit is grossly unfair. Dean is right; a re-vote is the best possible solution, though I hate to say "re-vote" because that implies the original elections were legitimate. They weren't.
{"commentId":1549644,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"tanzarian"}
{"commentId":1549657,"authorDomain":"tanzarian"}
I could point out dozens of votes which were more unfair than FL. All the candidates were on the ballot. They didn't campaign. The people voted, in record numbers. And they voted for Clinton. Don't like that? Tough luck. But FL was perhaps the most fair of any of the primaries so far.
Campaigning matters, and in every state Obama campaigned he gained ground. As the "default" candidate for most Dems, Hillary is of course going to do better in any state where there is no campaigning. Plus Obama actually honored his pledge not to campaign, where as HIllary clearly didn't. There should either be a re-vote in Florida or their delegates shouldn't count.
{"commentId":1549657,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"tanzarian"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549816,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
Show me how disenfranchising millions of people by telling them their votes won't count, which causes them to never go to the polls - is fair.
Funny how they had record turn-out and all. Are you suggesting that Obama voters were somehow more disenfranchised than the Clinton voters?
{"commentId":1549816,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549825,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
Plus Obama actually honored his pledge not to campaign, where as HIllary clearly didn't.
Show me where she campaigned. Rumors abounded (spread by whom, I wonder?), but I've never seen proof of it, and I've talked to Floridians who say they likewise have never heard of it. Surely someone has it on YouTube, if it's such a big deal?
{"commentId":1549825,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549850,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Are you suggesting that Obama voters were somehow more disenfranchised than the Clinton voters?
We can't know, because of the rules in place.
{"commentId":1549850,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549925,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
We can't know, because of the rules in place.
Non-answer, as usual. I haven't heard a valid reason, yet, why FL shouldn't count. I'll grant you MI.
We're never going to agree. Let's just leave it at that.
{"commentId":1549925,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549935,"authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
"I haven't heard a valid reason, yet, why FL shouldn't count."
Clinton has more name recognition, so the non-campaign was an advantage to her.
{"commentId":1549935,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
{"commentId":1549980,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Non-answer, as usual.
So if two people are going into a foot race. One is more fit than the other. They decide not is race, so neither trains at all. Then, one day - the fitter person decides they want to race immediately and that should decide who is the best runner. Neither was able to train in that time, but saying the race is fair is untrue - because we can't know how well the two may have trained in that time.
It's not a non-answer. It's fact.
{"commentId":1549980,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549982,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
Clinton has more name recognition, so the non-campaign was an advantage to her.
Obama had plenty of name recognition by then, and had already won a state. They do get CNN in FL, and it isn't as though Obama hasn't been running for office since day one. At the time, Clinton also had more money, if correctly recalled, so would have outspent him anyway, only reinforcing her name recognition, so I don't find that argument to be very persuasive, if a little insulting to actual Floridians, who you must assume don't pay attention to politics or the US at large. Or to the national ad-buys of Obamas that were broadcast in FL.
{"commentId":1549982,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549985,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
It's not a non-answer. It's fact.
No, its an opinion, and your "analogy" is irrelevant, as neither racer took the track in FL, but both had taken the track in other states. So both, ergo, trained, in any case - just to no avail, as the race was not run.
{"commentId":1549985,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1550098,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
If the race was not run, why do we have results?
{"commentId":1550098,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1550131,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
Obama does better when he campaigns in states. The more voters get to know him, the more they vote for him. Clinton doesn't want a revote because she knows campaigning is Obama's strong suit. She is content to stay right where she's at with what delegates she gained from unchallenged votes.
{"commentId":1550131,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
{"commentId":1550142,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Cletus #1.15
Facts about Florida from a Florida voter:
-The Florida primary was driven by a property tax amendment that affected many of the property owners in Florida contrary to what the MSM and Charlie Crist would have you believe. Of course they do not report this because then it would take away the premise that the primary was the driving force and weakens their argument.
-The only reason all of the names were on the Florida ballot is because by FLORIDA STATUTE they had to be on the primary ballot if they wanted to be on the presidential ballot. Evidently this is not the case in MI.
-The Republican legislature and Republican Governor approved moving the Republican primary up thus affecting the Democratic primary. The Republican party stripped only 50% of their delegates while the Democrats went postal and stripped ALL in accordance with their By-Laws. This was agreed upon by the DNC Rules Committee of which all candidates had representation.
-There was no protest from any of the campaigns who agreed to follow the rules and also agreed not to campaign there. The nerve that the Governor has to now insist they be seated is pure nonsense and pandering at its worst when he was the one who allowed this to happen. There was also a provision in the bill that the Democrats had to go along with so in effect the Democrats were trapped. Charlie Crist is a Republican and he will look out for Republican interests above all despite his effort at being so sincere. Beware of a wolf in sheep's clothing.
-Hillary Clinton has a vested interest in Florida because she has the super delegates such as the Alcee Hastings, Bill Nelson, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Corrine Brown, etc. As it stands now, they will not be seated. If Barack Obama had won, can you honestly say Hillary Clinton and her campaign (Terry McAuliffe, Harold Ickes two former high powered members of the DNC elite) would be fighting so hard to get them seated? Terry McAuliffe was in Howard Dean's position and set this whole thing up for Hillary and Bill to waltz into the WH. It was supposed to be over on Super Tuesday.
{"commentId":1550142,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1551905,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
If the race was not run, why do we have results?
Results you say? Good! Then let them be seated.
{"commentId":1551905,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1552698,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
No. Bad. Because they're unfair results - as stated previously.
{"commentId":1552698,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1553030,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
No. Bad. Because they're unfair results - as stated previously.
In your opinion, as also stated previously. Speaking of stated previously:
We're never going to agree. Let's just leave it at that.
{"commentId":1553030,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1553481,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Quitters never win.
{"commentId":1553481,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1553576,"authorDomain":"LeanderWapshot"}
{"commentId":1553592,"authorDomain":"LeanderWapshot"}
{"commentId":1548568,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Why doesn't the Party do what good for their Members Only ...and not what suits the "interlopers" that dropped in for the Primary?
{"commentId":1548568,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 2 votes
#2 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 5:16 PM EST{"commentId":1548579,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
Yes, which is nominate Obama based on how all the Republicans I have read about and heard about voted for Hillary to sabotage the Democratic Party.
{"commentId":1548579,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1548625,"authorDomain":"kevindicks"}
"I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise anyone," Clinton told reporters Thursday at a news conference in Washington. "Therefore I am still committed to seating their delegations ... "
Anyone else see the irony in that statement?
I think what she meant to say was, "I think it would be a grave disservice to the voters of Florida and Michigan to adopt any process that would disenfranchise me ... " She's not worried about whether or not Obama gets a fair shake, according to her words.
{"commentId":1548625,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"kevindicks"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1548675,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
She was against it before she was for it...Reverse of Iraq War vote...
No do over...Rules are Rules...
===========Please forward to friends============== Dear Friends,
I have just read and signed the petition: "Campaign to Retain a Fair Nomination Process ".
Please take a moment to read about this important issue, and join me in signing the petition. It takes just 30 seconds, but can truly make a difference. We are trying to reach 50,000 signatures - please sign here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Give-Us-Fairness
Once you have signed, you can help even more by asking your friends and family to sign as well.
Thank you.
******************************************************************************************************
Florida vote was not driven by primary but by a property tax amendment to the constitution and Charlie Crist knows it. So stop lying...
{"commentId":1548675,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1549028,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
Scott Isaacs
Yes, which is nominate Obama based on how all the Republicans I have read about and heard about voted for Hillary to sabotage the Democratic Party
LoL ......Scott.?..It's me ,Scott !... gp !...the Repub to Democrat... me!
Remember?
You're not fooling me,Scott.
Not you.... or "Green Party" Kevin ....or the load of "Independents" on NewsVine...who are Obama lovers.
Lol...Come on, Scott!....I'm surprised that you think ....I'm so naive.
LoL...I'm shocked!!
{"commentId":1549028,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
{"commentId":1549076,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
Florida vote was not driven by primary but by a property tax amendment to the constitution and Charlie Crist knows it
Yeah, you know what, that's life, get over it. Unless you want all presidential primaries to be only presidential primaries then your accusation probably applies to every single primary held in this nation, and likely always will.
{"commentId":1549076,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1568165,"authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
No do over...Rules are Rules... ===========Please forward to friends============== Dear Friends, I have just read and signed the petition: "Campaign to Retain a Fair Nomination Process ".
Why would anyone want to silence the voice of the people....?
Maybe that don't want to hear what they're saying?
I wonder if it were S.C. and Mississippi being punished...if those same voices would be hell bent on following the "Rules of Fancy"
Very Democratic!.....What ever happened to NewsVine Liberals?...LoL
The left for..... "Obamaland or Bust."
"Fair" now means looking only for votes that suit you....or some are more equal than others.
{"commentId":1568165,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"gpnavonod"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1548660,"authorDomain":"clueless-1"}
Well I have some news for Dean either start showing some leadership or get out so someone else can. It would appear that the Democrtic party is leadership they couldn't find thier backside's with both hands and a hunting dog this should have been settled after the Tue. primaries.Of course the press and media is having a ball with this the longer they can drag it out the more money in thier coffers,so its up to the leadership tell Hillary to take a hike and get on to Nov..
{"commentId":1548660,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"clueless-1"}
- 1 vote
#3 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 5:41 PM EST{"commentId":1548702,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
It is up to the party to put pressure on her to go home or risk her political career. They know her history and what will happen when the Republican attack machine gets a crack at her.
What is she going to come up with on April 15 when she said she would release her tax returns? How can the party sit by and let her continue to say John McCain has experience, she has experience and Obama has a speech from 2002?
How about the media start pressuring Hillary Clinton on the case in California that has been mysteriously suppressed?
{"commentId":1548702,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1548703,"authorDomain":"LeanderWapshot"}
{"commentId":1549078,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
Pssst...Dean was installed as chairperson of the DNC by the Clintonites so that he wouldn't run against Hillary in 2008.
Yeah, you sure? Last I checked, they were against Dean being DNC chair from beginning.
{"commentId":1549078,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1549110,"authorDomain":"LeanderWapshot"}
{"commentId":1549628,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Yeah Leander that way Terry McAuliffe whom you will replace can come and head up my campaign. Then I will recruit the rest of the DNC bosses like Rendell, Ickes, Dingell, insert any name from her campaign and we'll have this thing nailed down. They are all fighting for Hillary who knows what she has promised them.
{"commentId":1549628,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
{"commentId":1549777,"authorDomain":"LeanderWapshot"}
{"commentId":1552094,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Donna Brazile is a CNN political analyst and has not declared for any candidate to my knowledge and she is never announced as such like Paul Begalia has. She has also stated she will leave the party if the super delegates decide against the will of the people. She will be held to that. She won't be the only one as a movement has started amongst African Americans to leave the party because they are only "used" and not valued as a voting block. The DNC has trouble on its hands. With Hillary constantly trying to change the rules of the game while it is being played or after the fact.
Regardless, I do not think the Party will be the same Party it started out in 2007. Also, the Clinton campaign is pitting states against each other (another divisive tactic) by saying the ones Obama won are not as important as the ones she won nevermind that he has won more. The Party and the MSM have allowed this charade with Hillary Clinton to continue because we all know that if Barack Obama had lost 11 primaries/caucuses in a row he would not be in it now. If she won the caucuses she would not be dismissing them as counterproductive to her.
{"commentId":1552094,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1548700,"authorDomain":"LeanderWapshot"}
{"commentId":1548910,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Why not just title this story, "Dean Endorses Hillary Clinton"?
{"commentId":1548910,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 4 votes
#5 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 6:58 PM EST{"commentId":1549062,"authorDomain":"dtagair"}
Many of you seem to over look the fact that Obama's name was on the ballot in Florida which means he could have gotten votes if voters wanted him. Also Obama ran an ad in Florida even though all candidates agreed not to advertise in Florida or Michigan. Therefore as far as Florida is concerned there was nothing unfair about Clinton winning the state. The right thing to do is to give the votes to Hillary since she won them fair and square. As a matter of fact Obama should be penalized for running an ad in that state. Michigan is a little different because only Clinton's name was on the ballot. Perhaps do as the Republicans did and only give half of the delegates to the winner. It cannot be said Dean endorses Clinton because it is well known he would prefer Obama over her as the nominee. If he is to be honest he will do the right thing for the people who voted and not take a chance on giving Florida and Michigan to the Republicans because they are upset over their votes being thrown out when we need these two states to win in November.
{"commentId":1549062,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"dtagair"}
- 1 vote
#6 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 7:47 PM EST{"commentId":1549118,"authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
Obama ran national ads. He ran no ads targeted at Florida, unlike Clinton - who sent people to campaign for her in Florida, and went there as soon as the polls closed. The Floridian people were voting blindly, as the candidates were not allowed to campaign in the state.
{"commentId":1549118,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"Henryvii"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549153,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
and went there as soon as the polls closed
Oh noes! What the hell does that matter. If the polls were closed, then, you know what, the polls were closed.
And are you seriously suggesting there was no Obama grassroots campaign in FL?
{"commentId":1549153,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1549648,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
SGT you at it again? One question from this Florida voter. Did you vote in Florida? If not, then go educate yourself and you will find out why Florida was not fair. If so, then you have blinders on.
Check a couple of other articles and comments on this subject then come back. Although it won't change your position because you are an Obama hater at least go find out the deal.
{"commentId":1549648,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
{"commentId":1549102,"authorDomain":"jazzman646"}
This all about getting Hillary more delegates. The DNC, led by Howard Dean is determined to make sure she's the nominee.
The Democratic Party does not want a black man as their candidate.
How can Hillary Clinton say the delegates from FL and MI should be seated, when Obama was not even on the ballot.
The disqualification of FL and MI delegates was not even a concern to Clinton, until she began to realize she is going to lose the nomination without them.
If the DNC seats these delegates, and hands Clinton the nomination, African-Americans's should then organize a nationwide stay home in Nov campaign against the Democratic Party.
{"commentId":1549102,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"jazzman646"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 8:03 PM EST{"commentId":1549112,"authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
Based on the polls I've seen Obama stacks up much better against McCain than Clinton does. This should be very interesting to watch.
{"commentId":1549112,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549183,"authorDomain":"mrben"}
Hillary Clinton (or at least her campaign) sent out press releases within the week of the MI primary saying that the delegates should be reinstated. Not much of a surprise since she won, ("uncommitted" coming in second) but her stance on this is actually not all that new.
The cost for another primary election is extremely expensive, and I don't know if you've noticed, but Michigan isn't exactly swimming in cash. Unless the DNC is going to foot the bill, I'm perfectly happy with just accepting the primary results as-is. Is it fair to Obama? of course not, but then, I don't really think political parties are really all that concerned with fairness.
Now on to the rant...
I'm kind of tired of hearing about these things as if the two party system is some sort of governmental body- it isn't! regardless of how these parties decide their candidates, it is possible to run for a seat without them. Even if Obama doesn't get treated fairly, he could still be a candidate with a spot on the ballot, or even a write in. Sure it hurts your chances of winning but just because you're not Coke or Pepsi doesn't mean you can't make soda.
{"commentId":1549183,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"mrben"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549217,"authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
Jazz, Obama was on the ballot in FL. In FL, the candidates simply agreed not to campaign there. Now Howard Dean may be many things but he was hardly the Clintons choice to be DNC chair. His insurgent campaign in '04 was anathema to the DLC-types represented by the Clintons. They backed former TX Rep. Martin Frost.
{"commentId":1549217,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"wharrison55"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549343,"authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
Mr. Ben- "...as if the two party system is some sort of governmental body- it isn't!"
Yes. The decision is up to the DNC.
{"commentId":1549343,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
{"commentId":1549651,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Not only as their candidate but wouldn't he be considered "head of the party" so to speak? Wow, finally living up to what they claim to be...My eyes are wide open Democrats...
{"commentId":1549651,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
{"commentId":1552114,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Jazzman
If the DNC seats these delegates, and hands Clinton the nomination, African-Americans's should then organize a nationwide stay home in Nov campaign against the Democratic Party.
Warren Ballentine 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. is discussing this issue.
{"commentId":1552114,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549137,"authorDomain":"phattwizat"}
Dean did not actually urge anything. He only said that if the states want to seat delegates they will have to redo their vote. The article title is misleading.
{"commentId":1549137,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"phattwizat"}
- 1 vote
#8 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 8:15 PM EST{"commentId":1549658,"authorDomain":"marygj"}
Actually today he said they should follow the rules.
{"commentId":1549658,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"marygj"}
{"commentId":1549237,"authorDomain":"tanzarian"}
Dean is right. If the FL and MI delegates must be seated then another vote is the only fair way to do it. It would be good for the party and fair to both candidates.
{"commentId":1549237,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"tanzarian"}
#9 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 8:45 PM EST{"commentId":1549273,"authorDomain":"isaacs"}
{"commentId":1549273,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"isaacs"}
- 1 vote
#10 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 8:52 PM EST{"commentId":1549302,"authorDomain":"phattwizat"}
If I understand the "rules" correctly, they will have to hold different elections than before. Given they both had primaries they would have to do a caucus or some other form of voting. Caucus' might favor Obama, but at least the two would both be on the ballot and have opportunity to campaign.
{"commentId":1549302,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"phattwizat"}
#11 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 8:57 PM EST{"commentId":1549309,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
The two were on the ballot in FL, and each campaigned equally - which is to say not at all. Sounds pretty fair to me.
MI is a whole other thing, I agree.
Caucuses are nothing but endorsed disenfranchisement. It may be the cheapest option - but then you get what you pay for.
{"commentId":1549309,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"chasing"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1549357,"authorDomain":"cncfnbamilwaukee"}
My wager is on "COMMON SENSE", "ethics" and "due process".
My wager is on the immediate picture and long-term picture; as well as, past bad deeds.
We know the terrible taste that has been left in the citizenry mouth with the last two elections "appearing to have been stolen". Yes, stolen.
On the table was/is an agreed procedure. According to John Dean, Michigan and Florida agreed to it.
On the table was/is an agreed procedure. According to John Dean, the candidates, Clinton and Obama agreed to it.
The fact that Florida and Michigan wound up in a reneging situation goes to the leadership of the state. They, the leaders of the state, starting with the governors, Governor Jennifer Granholm - Michigan and Governor Charlie Crist - Florida, should come up with the whatever millions it will cost for re-taking - since this is their hot potato.
They have fiduciary responsibility here. They had control of the ballots and the election process. To come now and cry fowl or entitlement in view of the facts is "wrong". To try to justify the wrong speaks to how our country has fallen so low now and is not respected. The eligible voters in the past have just stayed home. With the Barack call for Hope, we have seen unprecedented out pour of young, middle and old of all races to the polls. His name was not included on the Michigan ballot. What was that about?
That aside, the reasonable voters can see the foolishness here. We must live past this election. What will it do to our process if we can change it at a whim or to favor one candidate or another?
We owe ourselves, the process, the candidates, the voters in the other states that did not renege and new voters that have stepped up to be a part of the voting process and the voting process a FAIR process based on the givens.
We must do better than what I am hearing from some of you.
Mary Glass - Milwaukeean
{"commentId":1549357,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"cncfnbamilwaukee"}
- 1 vote
#12 - Thu Mar 6, 2008 9:16 PM EST{"commentId":1549394,"authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
Good points Mary.
I'll continue to ask Senator Clinton, is your position that the states should determine when to run the primaries, rather that the parties?
{"commentId":1549394,"threadId":"230518","contentId":"1348506","authorDomain":"cletuswilbury"}
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