Al-Qaida's stance on women sparks extremist debate

That is Terry Jones in the photo isn't it?

Uncanny. That was my first reaction too.

What a foul creature. The deeds that day turned people against al Qaeda in Iraq. One of the men killed was a producer planning a film about Saladin. He had intended to provide some balance.

I completely agree! Discussion on topics similar to this can go along way in understanding and progression towards a more peaceful discourse.

*laughs ass off*

Now those are some real nasty mothers (darn it, the double entendre switch just blew up in my hand)

"We will stand, covered by our veils and wrapped in our robes, weapons in hand, our children in our laps, with the Quran and the Sunna (sayings) of the Prophet of Allah directing and guiding us."

Well, of course, al-Zawahri refuse to comment.. but the old islamic "business as usual" way of doing things doesn't work anymore, it is time to ensure equal opportunities and equal treatment for men and women!

:=B

Maybe if the women kept this up they could keep their men in Line or else...? #%^* will hit the fan.

If a few of these women detonated themselves on their husbands, fathers, brothers and male cousins perhaps they would stop making them wear Hefty bags because they fear seeing female skin will arouse them.

You mean the part about women wanting to participate in the jihad, the part about them actually doing attacks or the part about them talking about it on the Internet?

Well, we agree one one thing - they are, in fact, "nutcases." To say the least.

This article is complete crap.

Quoting three nutcases and a couple of professional reactionaries.

Sensationalist nonsense that gets sold at the check-out counter next to the gum and the cigarettes.

Of course its complete crap-- which is exactly what these people believe in ("complete crap"). Many of us in the west do not understand the values that these terrorists have-- the author has done us a favor in shedding some light on the subject.

However, it seems to me that the sensationalism is not due to the journalists (if that's what you are implying...?). When someone blows themselves up in the midst of civilians, murdering them or causing theem serious injuries for life-- that is the real sensationalism.

This article is complete crap.

Your comment is filled with suspense and ambiguity, and I can't wait to see how it ends up. So, tell us, which is the crap part? Btw, to Palestinian Arabs this is old news as there are many documented accounts of women suicide murderers, women's desire to "donate" their children to "martyrdom", and their willingness to bear children for the express purpose of replenishing the ranks. Even the controversy within Hamas and Arafat's old organization on this issue has now been well documented. Bottom line: it's ok for women to carry out suicide bombing, or as I prefer to call it, suicide murder. Unfortunately for them, there are no male virgins in heaven, so Allah is not quite the female liberator they'd like to believe in.

The whole article is sensational baloney:

"A lot of the girls I speak to ... want to carry weapons. They live with this great frustration and oppression," said Huda Naim, a prominent women's leader, Hamas member and Palestinian lawmaker in Gaza. "We don't have a special militant wing for women ... but that doesn't mean that we strip women of the right to go to jihad."

100% pure hot air. They want to carry weapons. So what? This is not news. A lot of Israeli girls want to carry weapons and they do and good for them.

The quotes in the article show a mixture of bad faith, fatigue and lack of anything intelligent to say about the wretched status of women in Palestinian (and all other Arabic speaking) societies. It's basically pornography for people who either aren't allowed to or are too embarrassed to think about sex.

Also, this National Enquirer thinking is perfectly mirrored by some of the comments it elicits - like some knee-jerk from a corpse - from the "other side":

Unfortunately for them, there are no male virgins in heaven, so Allah is not quite the female liberator they'd like to believe in.

Many Americans do reason like this. The most spectacular nonsense they have ever heard is their most lasting impression. That's why commercial advertising works so well.

Once again you've managed to comment in the guise of answering a question without answering, and asserting the meaty baloney defense. But you missed the point of the article which is that recently women have become frustrated by the edicts of al Qaeda #2 man, Zawahiri that women should not take part in terror attacks.

Is that the baloney part?

This is counter to the reality in the ME where women are already playing a significant role in suicide murders.

Or is that the baloney part?

They want permission to kill just like their fellow man and have expressed their frustration recently in essays via the internet which gives them a voice they would not otherwise have.

Is that the baloney part?

Male jihadists who achieve martyrdom are each graced in the afterlife with 72 virgins with whom to experience sexual pleasure and gratification...or do you imagine they are there for the purpose of housekeeping and preparing meals?

Or is that the baloney part?

Women, on the other hand, don't get a single male virgin to screw. This is real a shame because the men can f uc k their brains out as reward for their murderous deeds while the women, equally willing to butcher men, women and children without remorse here on earth, can't even get certain fundamentalist male leaders to permit them to do so. Talk about discrimination. Still things are not so bleak for the aspiring female jihadist; Hamas (and the "martyr" Arafat, no doubt by now having deflowered his quota, and now screwing only the more experienced beauties) have indeed given women permission to join in their murderous rampage. And those gals are really motivated, no? I mean without a hunky male virgin beckoning them outward and upward to pleasure them? Life's just not fair, is it?

But wait, there's hope; they may not be virgins at all, but mere grapes. so women might get their fair share after all.

So which is the baloney part? Be specific if possible.

Thank you.

There is so much baloney that it's hard to know where to start. But I'll help you along on your journey to understanding - which in this case means learning what discernment is.

Here is an awful photograph that accompanies this "article":

http://i.newsvine.com/_vine/images/ap/nws/01741458-5c28-44b2-9ea1-5b83fe826445.jpg

1) Look at the picture.

2) Read the accompanying photo caption:

In this March 10, 2008 file photo, a morgue official inspects the remains of a female suicide bomber after the woman, wearing an explosives belt, killed the head of a local group of Sunni fighters Sheik Thaeir Ghadhban al-Karkhi, his 5-year-old niece, and a security guard, in Baqouba, Iraq. Women Muslim extremists have posted Internet messages in recent weeks expressing frustration with the al-Qaida No. 2 leader's refusal to give them a larger role in terror attacks - an extraordinary, emotional debate that offers rare insight into the tense gender politics lurking below the surface of al-Qaida's severe strain of Islam. (AP Photo, File)

3) Ask yourself the following question:

Does that girl's body look to you like she was carrying an explosive charge, which she detonated and which killed three people and herself? That takes a fairly powerful explosion, even at close quarters.

Take a good look. She was facing the explosion - notice? Look at the asphalt around her. See any burn marks? Anything at all that looks like she was the center of the blast wave? Blood spatters? Soot? Drag marks? Anything?

Here's another question for you, Discerning One: Are you willing to at least entertain the possibility that the girl in the photo was the victim of a suicide attack and not the perpetrator? That the caption is mislabeled? Deliberately? Because - perhaps - whoever published this rubbish article didn't think you could stomach what a bomber actually looks like after an attack? This is not a trivial distinction. The lies about this evil are everywhere and repeated endlessly by liars with agendas.

I have had to deal with my two hands with the aftermath of murderous violence on any number of occasions. Permit me to suggest that there is something wrong with the caption.

This is just a very small slice of what you are swallowing hook, line and sinker. The whole article is crap and you appear predisposed to believe it. I may have planted a tiny sliver of doubt in your mind. If so, good. I have nothing further to say about this disgusting pornography.

A lot of Israeli girls want to carry weapons and they do and good for them.

I wonder if all the Israeli girls you see carrying weapons do so merely because they "want to"-- or because there is the very real threat of some Palestinian nut-case blowing themselves up in the middle of a crowded market...or on a bus...or in an Israeli school? This is the sort of so-called "sensational baloney" that is a very real threat: video (actual NBC News story). Do you really think Israeli girls carry guns (see above 2 links) because they mrely enjoy it-- or is there a realistic reason?

The whole article is sensational baloney:

Actually, its hard for people in the west to understand the fact that in other societies, gthere really are many people who have different values. I can see why it might be hard for some westerners to understand-- but I found the article to be highly accurate-- and a valuable aid to understanding how some (not all-- by any means-- but some) of these people think.

Because, Youssef, my friend-- what you call "sensational baloney" is actually quite accurate. Here is a video clip-- quite authentic, I'm afraid-- please watch it and see for yourself. (You may think its baloney-- but people are dying. And yes, my friend-- not all of the victims are Jews...)

This is just a very small slice of what you are swallowing hook, line and sinker. The whole article is crap and you appear predisposed to believe it. I may have planted a tiny sliver of doubt in your mind. If so, good. I have nothing further to say about this disgusting pornography.

If, indeed, that single photo was mislabeled-- it wouldn't be the first time that the media mislabeled the caption of a photo! However, that does not negate the facts presented in the article.

Krishna -

You are over-interpreting my comment by about 1000%. Which is in itself revealing, I'd say. Please calm down and read what I actually wrote.

Yes, Israelis carry guns because they want to and have the right to do so.

Do you deny this?

It is hardly surprising that Palestinians also wish to do this under the circumstances we currently have in the Holey Land.

I have lived in Israel. At one point I spoke Hebrew reasonably well. You might want to consider this when lecturing me about the IDF or Israeli girls.

The AP piece is still total crap, by the way.

Krishna -

that does not negate the facts presented in the article.

No, my friend, it does not. Not in itself.

It does, however, go a long ways toward recommending caution!

That first picture is hot... Israeli girls remind me of hillbilly girls. Miranda Lambert's song "Gunpowder and Lead" explains that little girls are made of gunpowder and lead. Perhaps if women in the Muslim world had that much power to carry a gun, they'd get better treatment. I think women that carry guns are extremely hot. :-) It also significantly cuts down on verbal and physical abuse, since men are hesitant to show up with a fist to a gunfight. ;-)

"His fist is big, but my gun's bigger, he'll find out when I pull the trigger" - Gunpowder and Lead, Miranda Lambert (LMAO!)

Scott -

I probably shouldn't show you this but here is a very recent photo of a daughter-in-law of your's truly.

The three gentlemen (I am not one of them) in the photograph have a combined knowledge and experience of small arms that is so great that it's difficult to describe.

(One gunsmith and two old-timey law enforcement veterans).

I bet your son is a complete gentleman to her, isn't he? ;-)

That first picture is hot... Israeli girls remind me of hillbilly girls. Miranda Lambert's song "Gunpowder and Lead" explains that little girls are made of gunpowder and lead. Perhaps if women in the Muslim world had that much power to carry a gun, they'd get better treatment. I think women that carry guns are extremely hot. :-)

More pictures of Israeli girls and guns: On the front lines against global jihad - women of the IDF

I bet your son is a complete gentleman to her, isn't he?

He most certainly is.

Here is a picture of that young man taken on the same occasion.

Notice that stance. That's Army Ranger training we are looking at. If I tried to shoot like that, I'd probably fall over.

krishna:
More hot pictures... those are some nice looking women and the assertive poses and carrying the guns are cool too. This is why Israel won't ever be overrun. LOL

Youssef:
I'm actually familiar with that shooting stance... great stability for an on-target shot. I prefer a Weaver with the .45 handgun I have, but my best rifle shots come from that. A shot standing up is slightly less accurate.

I prefer off-hand due to my advanced age ;-).

Don't feel bad... I have a back injury and rarely get into that low stance anymore. LOL

If krishna doesn't stop posting these pictures I'm going to have to move back to Kentucky or move to Israel and find an armed woman to lay up with. ;-)

Youssef51 #5.7

"There is so much baloney that it's hard to know where to start. "

You can start by answering any of the questions I posed in an effort to understand what your point is. Which is what? That more women are not taking part in suicide murder? That al Qaeda pronouncements are not opposed to women taking part in jihad beyond staying in the kitchen despite the reality? Is that it? What's your point? Be specific. Your point is what about the article? (I mean besides that it's "all" crap. What is?

Apparently you are concerned with a photo caption. What's your point? That the phenomenon of women suicide bombers is fiction because you think there's an inconsistency in a photo caption? Photo journalists or editors should be more careful about their attributions? Or is it that an entire book is crap because there's a typo on page 3?

Youssef51,

"Are you willing to at least entertain the possibility that the girl in the photo was the victim of a suicide attack and not the perpetrator?"

Are you seriously suggesting that the article above is invalid because a photo caption should, in your opinion, really be:

"In this March 10, 2008 file photo, a morgue official inspects the remains of the victim of a female suicide bomber...," and is not the bomber herself?

"The lies about this evil are everywhere and repeated endlessly by liars with agendas."

Now that's a perplexing statement. Care to clarify? What lies? What evil? Is the evil the female suicide bombers? The evil photo editors?

"That the caption is mislabeled? Deliberately?"

Ah, an almost point, but I still have to guess. You mean there's some advantage to showing a female victim vs. a female suicide murderer? Did I guess right? What's your point? Specifically, what?

Youssef51, #5.7 you have questions about the photo caption which suggests something to you, though we don't really know what it is.

1) Look at the picture.
2) Read the accompanying photo caption:
3) Ask yourself the following question:

re: the problems you are having with the photo caption, please consider the following Detective Youssef51.

The leg appears to be the left leg yet it lies flat on the ground i.e. there are no hips. The object behind the leg might be the right leg which may be scorched or wearing some stocking. There are no arms, and there is not much torso left. There is no blood, indicating the body was moved. Do I have to spell this out? Ok, victim or bomber, there would be blood at the location of the deaths. There a black marks on the ground behind the body where a waist might have been indicating the body is charred.

Consider this possibility which has escaped you.

Was the body moved? Notice the photo caption date, March 10. Here's an article which recounts the event.

Here's another: this one relating a slightly different version, putting the women inside the sheik's house and not merely at the door when the bomb went off.

(If you tell me that the two accounts differ suggesting the event never occurred at all, I will simply have to remain disappointed in your judgment.)

And here, just fyi to fill in your knowledge gap about the phenomenon of female suicide bombers, a different attack.

"Here's another question for you, Discerning One:.."

I appreciate your rhetorical hommage as you know that I've often observed the characteristic inablity of leftists and conspiracists to make distinctions. On that score, you're batting 1000.

How do you think they got into factories and shop floors? When you want to win bad enough... LOL

Scott,

It's really sad though, I once gave women credit for being a little smarter than men, because they stayed away from the battlefields.

But women love our country as much as we do. Why is it "stupid" for women to wan to join our (American) army?

Why is it "stupid" for women to wan to join our (American) army?

I never said it was. Women have an important role in the US military, but ground combat (which is still not allowed (legally) under DoD policy) is not one of them.

I think these women are suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome... it's just their husbands and male kinfolk that have brainwashed them to be babymaking machines and then bombs.

That is so true Scott! Unfortunately it is much more complex than that, but that is it in a nutshell.

So is wearing make up & mini-skirts the issue is more complex ....

Ha! Funny... In the Battered woman syndrome.. in a Free Society, a woman has the choice to leave her abductor or brainwasher physically. Mentally, that is hard. But under Sharia Law and Islam Rule, these women cannot leave. They are killed if they do. And often forced into the Muslim Religion, it is no choice of their own. Brainwashed or not.

You have a whole country against you as a Muslim woman, not just your husband, keeper, demon whatever you want to call those non-human creatures.

That is what I meant by complex.

Entire societies are constructed to keep women in their place... Ana is right.

Because Islam is based on a tribal culture, it values women as breeders. I refer you to 2:223 "Your women are a tilth for you"... the literal meaning is field to be plowed and seeded. Men are expendable, women are not because they are needed to produce more warriors.

Besides being chattel property serving as breeders, women are considered to be half as intelligent [2:282] and they inherit only half as much as their brothers. [4:11]

To add insult, Moe said that he had a look into Hell and saw that the majority of its inhabitants were women. [Sahih Bukhari 8.76.456]

When Moe's favorite wife asked if she should participate in Jihad, Moe said that the best Jihad for women is the hajj. [Sahih Bukhari 4.52.43] {Ayat & ahadith are named anchors in the USC-MSA Compendium of Islamic Texts, search for the numbers cited above.}

Dajjal:
Good points, all.

Excellent quotes, thank you. Far more important to know about than the nonsense in the article.

When Moe's favorite wife asked if she should participate in Jihad, Moe said that the best Jihad for women is the hajj. [Sahih Bukhari 4.52.43] {Ayat & ahadith are named anchors in the USC-MSA Compendium of Islamic Texts, search for the numbers cited above.}

Unfortunately, many women believe otherwise (as they are indoctrinated from birth to believe that).

I guess my defense of this article is weird - I acknowledge that its difficult to make the conclusion that there really is "a debate" on whether women should or should not have the right to be terrorists based on anonymous messages on boards. However, I have argued that something resembling said debate exists because of a NY Times article I linked to earlier about a real Muslim Belgian woman trying to exhort jihadis.

"I say to you ... (I have) tasted the bitterness of American brutality: my favorite wife's chest was crushed by a concrete ceiling," he wrote in a 2005 letter.

Come on!! This entire story HAS to be satire, right? ... Right?!

Thank you for your comment. : )

I was getting a little too serious there.. this issue just makes my skin crawl..

He's just pissed because he has to get within 10 feet of an American to kill one and all we have to do is cut loose a tomahawk.

Scott, maybe, just maybe if we cut loose less Tomahawks these nut cases would feel less of a need to resort to terrorist acts. Maybe?

We'd likely have to withdraw from the Middle East totally and I doubt they'd slow down then. Things are in motion now.

Phaedrus, it does read like satire:

"How many times have I wished I were a man ... When Sheikh Ayman al-Zawahri said there are no women in al-Qaida, he saddened and hurt me," wrote "Companion of Weapons," who said she listened to the speech 10 times. "I felt that my heart was about to explode in my chest...I am powerless."

I don't know about this article, I really don't. I would describe it as... baroque. It is a highly unorthodox approach to give a voice to anonymous voices on unnamed Internet forums, and link them to the concept of Al Qaeda. Suggesting that you can accurately determine gender, political bias, level of religiousity or ethnic background (and thus authenticity) on the basis of "passion" begs an explanation.

Most Al Qaeda supporters generally don't want to speak to the media. But if you want a real female who wants the right to murder innocent people, here you go.

green, I think the question goes to the scope of the problem, not whether or not ticking bombs come with XX chromosomes.

Most Al Qaeda supporters generally don't want to speak to the media. But if you want a real female who wants the right to murder innocent people, here you go.

Good article!

LOL, That's good that your wife can stop you in your tracks with the look and hands on the hips. I'm sure that's much better than blowing you up.
Guys have it made here in the States and don't know just how good they have it.

Never underestimate the power of women...with or without the TNT. :0)

Become a man? That's screwed up...

He responded that a good woman, by the grace of God, would become a man and receive the same bounty.

Perhaps this suggests that transsexuals may get a jump on the process, and soon be welcomed into the ranks of the suicide murderers. "Come one, come all, let us blow up together". I'm impressed by the egalitarian nature of fundamentalist Islam. I really had no idea.

I have to say, I much prefer the Eucharist to having a circumcision by moyle or carbolic acid on the pleasure button... the latter two aren't pretend. LOL