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Christian leaders meet privately with Obama

Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:28 PM EDT
politics, obama, religion, barack-obama
Charles Babington, Associated Press
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<p>Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill. speaks to the media, Tuesday, June 10, 2008, at Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)</p>

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill. speaks to the media, Tuesday, June 10, 2008, at Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St. Louis. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

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CHICAGO — Barack Obama discussed Darfur, the Iraq war, gay rights, abortion and other issues Tuesday with Christian leaders, including conservatives who have been criticized for praising the Democratic presidential candidate.

Bishop T.D. Jakes, a prominent black clergyman who heads a Dallas megachurch, said Obama took questions, listened to participants and discussed his "personal journey of faith."

The discussion "went absolutely everywhere," Jakes told The Associated Press, and "just about every Christian stripe was represented in that room."

Jakes, who does not endorse candidates and said he also hopes to meet with Republican presidential candidate John McCain, said some participants clearly have political differences with Obama. The senator's support for abortion rights and gay rights, among other issues, draws opposition from religious conservatives. Some conservatives have criticized Jakes for praising Obama.

Jakes said the meeting, at a law firm's offices, seemed designed to prompt a wide discussion rather than to result in commitments from either Obama or those attending. Others familiar with the meeting said some participants agreed to attend only because it would be private.

Rich Cizik, vice president for governmental affairs of the National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella organization for evangelical churches and ministries, said Obama asked participants to share "anything that's on your mind that is of concern to you."

"I think it's important to point out this isn't a group of people who are endorsing Obama," Cizik said in an interview. "People were asked for their insider wisdom and understanding of the religious community."

Mark DeMoss, a spokesman for the Rev. Franklin Graham, said Graham attended and asked Obama whether "he thought Jesus was the way to God, or merely a way." DeMoss declined to discuss Obama's response.

Graham, who succeeded his father as head of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, found the senator "impressive" and "warm," DeMoss said.

"He feels that dialogue with someone who may be president is useful whether or not you agree with them on everything or anything," DeMoss said. Graham expects to soon meet with Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

Joshua Dubois, the Obama campaign's director of faith outreach, said the meeting included "prominent evangelicals and other faith leaders" who "discussed policy issues and came together in conversation and prayer." Similar sessions will occur "in the months to come," he said.

About 30 people attended, the campaign said, but it released only three names: the Rev. Stephen Thurston, head of the National Baptist Convention of America, Inc., a historically black denomination; the Rev. T. Dewitt Smith, president of the Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc., which was home to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights leaders; and Bishop Phillip Robert Cousin Sr., an A.M.E. clergyman and former NAACP board member.

Two sources familiar with the meeting, but who spoke on background because the session was private, said others attending included conservative Catholic constitutional lawyer Doug Kmiec; evangelical author Max Lucado of San Antonio; Cameron Strang, founder of Relevant Media, which is aimed at young Christians; the Rev. Luis Cortes of Esperanza USA; and Paul Corts, president of the Council of Christian Colleges and Universities.

Kmiec, an abortion opponent who worked for the Reagan administration's Justice Department, was denied Communion in April at a Mass for Catholic business people because he had endorsed Obama. Church leaders later apologized, according to syndicated columnist E.J. Dionne.

Cizik said the issues discussed Tuesday included "protecting the traditional family, same-sex marriage, gay rights, religious freedom, genocide, poverty and hunger in America, and how we might even improve America's standing in the world."

He said he told Obama: "Religious Americans want to know why is it you love this country and what it stands for and how we can make it better."

Cizik said participants agreed not to give specifics of Obama's responses to their questions, but that "there was nothing softball about this meeting and that's the way he said he wanted it."

Jakes said there was just a brief mention of Jeremiah Wright, Obama's former pastor, who became the focus of a political flare-up earlier in the year after videos of his sermons showed him cursing the government and accusing it of conspiring against blacks. Obama eventually broke with Wright and resigned from Trinity United Church of Christ.

___

AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll in New York and Associated Press writer Sophia Tareen in Chicago contributed to this report.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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  • Public Discussion (25)
Forest Browne

Yuck...how appalling.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:57 PM EDT
Rob_NC

..ah,come on his picture ain`t that bad...

    #1.1 - Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:01 PM EDT
    Christian Areas

    I think it's a good thing, and I'm agnostic (don't let the name fool you).

    • 2 votes
    #1.2 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:22 AM EDT
    SteveHouse

    An open, honest, and private dialogue with some of the more influential leaders in society? How appalling indeed! Let it not be heard of!

    • 4 votes
    #1.3 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:10 AM EDT
    Forest Browne

    Steve, I find it exceptionally appalling, that we have a group of people who've given up on trying to understand the issues and instead vote by order of their so-called leaders. Talk about a credibility gap, if their concerns were for the poor and the downtrodden that would be one thing, but essentially it isn't they instead try and foster repression on women, brainwash children, which in my opinion is some type of torture. Perhaps believing in what they like to term creationism is helping somehow in their little minds when colleges won't accept their private schools correclum, rightly so, they will NOT be scientists, nor good engineers, so get ready to have them work at low paying jobs for less money and a reality that is not in any way construed as helping them but rather pushing them into a life of poverty and stupidity. Evolution will rid itself of the undereducated and backwards peoples.

    So I draw the line, there is no scientific support for their egregious claims. I am a proud atheist, and will draw down on anyone who challenges me and my truths. There is no god pal and you don't have a ghost of a chance proving it. Child abuse shouldn't be allowed and if it were up to me I'd take your children away as you are doing them a lifelong disservice.

    Oh, and Christian, I know exactly what an agnostic is by definition and research, perhaps you should read Leslie Stephen and garner a realistic grasp of what it really is, almost at a truth you know to be right.

    Boy, I sure hope I haven't offended anyone...

    Forest

    • 1 vote
    #1.4 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
    SteveHouse

    You can be as pissed as you want that church leaders are influential in society, but that's just the way it is right now. One could argue that raising a child to believe there is no god is just as much "brainwashing" as is raising a child to worship the bed they sleep in, Allah, Buddha, Jesus, Spam, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You're still closing their minds either way. And you won't prove to anyone there is no god, either. That's why it's called a matter of faith, and it's pointless to argue that in this forum.

    Now, with your first point I agree. I also wish people would learn for themselves, and if you don't watch the Daily Show I'd recommend finding a clip of the guest last night, who was hawking a book called "How Stupid Are We?" about the American voter. I'm picking that one up first chance I get. But the point here is, there will always be someone who is influential in society, and I would expect the final Presidential candidates to have frank discussions with them. Whether they wear a clerical collar or a fireman's hat, as long as they have a legitimate reason to be in their position (to refuse movie stars and the like from the list).

    • 1 vote
    #1.5 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:25 PM EDT
    Forest Browne

    I'm sorry in no way would I give over space for the religious/repressive/uninformed part of society to have a say in what an intelligent society should be working on. Certainly isn't war, a billion dollars a day to be in a place where no one wants us. You have to prove that they aren't always in the minority when it comes to scholarship and science, but you do mange to pay about three percent of the community to espouse their views no matter how ridiculous.

    "Faith" my friend was a concept thought up by Levi while begging and preaching to poor and equally stupid people about a concept that shouldn't even be a concept in a civilized society.

    Forest

    • 1 vote
    #1.6 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:15 PM EDT
    SteveHouse

    I'm not sure if you are intending to sound as hostile as you do, so I'll not reply hotly.

    How ridiculous a person's views are is wholly subjective. At the time it was introduced, I seem to believe a heliocentric solar system was pretty ridiculous too. (Curiously enough for this discussion, it was the church that fought that so hard.) Wasn't it Mill who said we should print everything, be it truth, half-truth, or outright falsehood? If it's so false, it invigorates the truth. (I think that was Mill.) And no, they aren't always in the minority of scholarship and science, but the wackos sure are. The totally off-the-deep-end people, on whom you seem to base your caricature, are almost always wrong. But you can't discount a theologian simply because he's a theologian. Debunk his argument, instead of ad hominem squabbling.

    You've made your point that you agree with Marx that religion is the opiate of the masses, and based on that believe the religious heads shouldn't have such social clout. But the fact is, they have it. Obama knows it, and so he simply had a discussion with them. He talked with the very people who lead those on the other side of the aisle who aren't so happy with their candidate. That seems like the beginning of a decent strategy to me.

    • 2 votes
    #1.7 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:52 PM EDT
    Forest Browne

    SO you reference Marx, how cute, it wasn't Marx that killed millions it was Lenin and Stalin. Pretty piss poor argument.

    What pray tell do you intend with this silly sentence....

    And no, they aren't always in the minority of scholarship and science, but the wackos sure are.

    Again facts elude you check on check on how many creationism scientists are in the 3%, you don't have a good scientist that is reasonable in the sense of having peering review be a part of his argument. Faith is not an answer to any sort of argument, they don't send robots to Mars out of faith they use physics and mathematics. Religions have fought every sort of advancement.

    How is it possible that god is perfect when they keep have to reinterpreting so they don't look so stupid. I hear you have a new one for dinosaurs, darn it that was a great one to us on converting children.

    Then there is this..........

    Debunk his argument, instead of ad hominem squabbling.

    There is no argument when you have no proofs, except for any ridiculous reference to a book that has been constantly rewritten through out history by whomever needed it to face facts so as not to lose the little credibility they have.

    Oh, and to the author. I thinks it's high time you looked up the definition of fascist and try and explain how that's has anything to do with corporate government working with the state, much less corporate businesses. By the way, seems as if you didn't read history when it comes to WWII, Hitler was put in power by the Catholic block to seal the deal for getting him elected. Why you ask? So they could elect their own bishops. How self serving is that, welcome to the holocaust.

    Hot enough for you?

    Forest

    • 1 vote
    #1.8 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:22 PM EDT
    SteveHouse

    LOL! Marx wasn't an argument of any kind, just a quote. It's pretty obvious you're upset... What's the deal? No one did anything to you. You're the one shouting your beliefs and decrying everything else (something that is a major reason I've heard from many atheists why they hate Christianity in particular). You're the one attacking me based on an assumption because of the side of an argument I take (something you're doing on a grand scale, I might add).

    The burden of proof of a diety is on both sides. It's just as hard to prove creationism as it is to prove that life evolved from nothing. Not the micro evolution part, I'm talking how life began. How does that work, again? Some slime got hit by lightning? That's the last theory I heard, not snark, by the way. If the only minority scientists you were referring to are creation and ID scientists, then sure, power to you.

    "I" don't have any "new one" on dinosaurs. Some stuffy old white man might, but I don't. I'm not a fan of mainstream religion and churches either, believe it or not, but I refuse to call someone an idiot for believing in something (with obvious exceptions).

    Now back off of this religious bull@!$%# argument and return to the topic: Why shouldn't Obama meet with people who have a good deal of social clout? People who actually do shape the beliefs of their congregations? People whose congregations might just be the religious Right, who isn't happy with John McCain?

    • 1 vote
    #1.9 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:51 PM EDT
    Steve Webel

    ...when colleges won't accept their private schools correclum, rightly so, they will NOT be scientists, nor good engineers...

    I believe there is more freedom in the academic community than you are apparently aware of. One thing I discovered while pursuing one of my science degrees was that High School Science teachers proved to be much more 'dogmatic' about evolution / big bang than University and Grad School professors.

    While at the Univ. of Fla, there were at LEAST three tenured professors in the Microbiology department who were openly suspicious of the plausibility of the 'big bang' and leaned toward ID! We knew that as students in their classes, but they didn't shove it down our throats. Point is, these guys were about as top-notch as they come in their field and yet they were less dogmatic than YOU are currently being...

      #1.10 - Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:07 AM EDT
      Reply
      denn034

      The Democrats kill the unborn that God forms in the womb, ignore all the precedents for war in the Old Testament and the fact that Paul says nations "wield not the sword in vain," and push for things that the Bible unquestionably rejects. When you add to that the fact that liberal religions are just religious disguises for secularism and thereby the secularism they force on us is the very forcing of religious values on others that they oppose, then, one cannot help but see this as hypocrisy of the grossest form. Who actually believes that Obama would care one bit about religion in his deliberations and considerations if elected President? Come on now!

        Reply#2 - Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:09 PM EDT
        Christian Areas

        You've been played by the GOP. Good luck with that.

        • 4 votes
        #2.1 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:20 AM EDT
        niafabo

        The bible believes in helping others. In charity. In everyone giving their part to the community in high numbers. In loving thy neighbor and never passing judgement on others. It is gods place to say if abortion is right or wrong. It is god's place to choose who will be damned not yours or any church member. You are not god and you have no way of saying that you in your mightiness could ever truely understand his master plan. That sort of attitude goes against the teachings of the bible. All you are suppose to do is find a personal connection to the bible to follow his word in your own lives and have open arms to help those around you. I suggest you do that but hey you have the right to show your true colors.

        • 4 votes
        #2.2 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:39 AM EDT
        SteveHouse

        denn, I think what you just said made a logical circle. Liberals push for not pushing your religious beliefs on others, but by doing so, they are forcing their beliefs on others. ???

        1. Some liberals are Christians. Shocking, I know.
        2. Politics =/= religion. Shocking, I know.

        • 3 votes
        #2.3 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:12 AM EDT
        Forest Browne

        Gentlemen,

        You lose all creditability when quoting the bible as your source. That is my point in the sense that it just scares the hell, pun intended, out of me when people choose to believe and articulate that as a basis. Historians don't use it, and for good reason, it's just not a viable source and contradicts itself at every turning of the page.

        Forest

        • 2 votes
        #2.4 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:40 AM EDT
        Reply
        Quiverdaddy

        Bishop Jakes, and anyone who lived through the '60s has every reason to be proud of our nation's readiness to nominate an African-American to the highest office in the land.

        The fact that Obama lacks the experience and grit necessary to succeed in the job and the fact that winning the nomination is a great achievement are two separate issues, both of which need to be viewed in their own context.

        Obama is a one term state senator and a U.S. senator with less than a year in office before making his full time job the pursuit of his party's nomination for the presidency. He has no known achievement in office, and as his chief opponent pointed out, it takes more than a nice speech to be an effective president. Obama is haunted by membership in what appears to many outsiders to be a racist hate cult that is as anti-American as many of Obama's other associates (the slumlords and felons, and domestic terrorists, etc.). He and his wife have made many comments disparaging of America's working class and he has threatened to raise taxes in a reckless and economically naive way.

        All that being said, no one can doubt the power of his rhetoric when carefully scripted and aided by use of a TelePrompTer. His off-the-cuff remarks show him to be a fairly close rhetorical kin to our current president. The difference, of course is that with a script and a lot of rehearisng, Obama can sound more than just coherent -- he's the most inspiring voice to nothing in particular I have ever heard. His ability to read a carefully plagiarized speech however is not what got him the nomination -- at least not by itself.

        While much of America celebrates this great moment in our national history, we should give some thought to the fact that Obama did not arrive at his current pinnacle because he is black -- at least not entirely -- and he didn't get there on the weight of his qualifications or political skill either. We stand on the edge of a great historical moment because Obama's advisers knew how to play the delegate selection game better than Hillary's best hired guns. He effectively played the race card to deflect criticism of his sparse agenda of "change" and his questionable associations with terrorists and cult leaders.

        To the extent that Obama exhibited anything of merit, it is in choosing advisers and staff who were skilled at making the best of the best he has to offer while minimizing the "real Obama" that frightens his opponents.

        The greatness that Bishop Jakes and many in my generation celebrates is the historical moment -- apart from the figure around whom that history is likely to be written -- and not any achievement on Obama's part.

        Let's give him his props for a well run campaign, and a moment when Americans can see for the first time how far we've come. And then let's make sure he doesn't get in office and do irreversible harm to the country.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#3 - Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:52 PM EDT
        tabhi

        Damage has already been done, look at the gas prices and the food bills,and the child care and the jobs and that does not include the money we borrow from china on a daily bases to run the war than there is the medical bill you know the one that cost $50.00 for an office visit $20.00 for a blood test $20.00 for an x-ray, than there are the meds that are prescribes and all this can happen in 1 day if this is good in your eyes that let me sell you some triple AAA bonds you know like the ones that have the whole housing market on its ear.

          #3.1 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:29 AM EDT
          jedipunk

          It worked out pretty well before.
          Abraham Lincoln Political Cartoon

          • 1 vote
          #3.2 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:16 AM EDT
          Reply
          Steve Webel

          Interesting Mr. Obama would hold this meeting when the SBC (America's largest protestant denomination) is holding their annual convention - thus it's leaders were not available to participate.

          I wonder if it was calculated or if it was an oversight.

            Reply#4 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:27 AM EDT
            njb

            Just what is that supposed to mean?

              #4.1 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:00 AM EDT
              Steve Webel

              It's me thinking 'out-loud' about a very interesting omission of the largest protestant denomination in Obama's group of 'Christian leaders'.

                #4.2 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:09 AM EDT
                Reply
                denn034

                Why is it okay for Democrats to attack evangelical Christians but, it's intolerant bigotry when evangelicals attack others. Fundamental fairness to all demands the view that both either have the right to attack or they're both intolerant bigots for attacking. The whole concept of consistency demands the view. To niafabo above, yes, the Bible is about helping others but, it's also opposed to laziness. One fails to see how creating poverty inducing entitlement programs and multi-generational welfare that stiffles a willingness to work could possibly be called helping others. One would think that giving people some assistance that's designed to get them working again and on their own two feet with the tools to escape poverty would be the only thing that's consistent with both the call to help others and the condemnation of laziness in the Bible.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#5 - Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:57 PM EDT
                njb

                Point taken---the bible does condemn being lazy, but we are also charged with caring for the sick, the poor and to visit prisoners. If the church was doing what they should have been doing, we would not have a need for welfare.

                Are there people that are lazy? Of course--but millions more are trapped in a social structure with lack of opportunity, without support, you can only do so much when the system is rigged against you.

                  #5.1 - Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:33 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  brianalamptonDeleted
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