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LITTLETON, Colo. - If you could put karma in the bank, Stan and Christine Penton would have a nice savings account.
As owners of one of the Denver area’s last remaining suburban equestrian stables for the past 13 years, the Pentons have offered programs for disabled riders, rescued wild mustangs and subsidized lessons and horses for the less fortunate among their generally well-to-do clientele. Leaders in their community and their church, they adopted two young children from Russia.
And good karma is mostly what they have to show for it. That and the $7,400 they can count as profit so far this year from the hundreds of thousands in revenue they have collected at their Normandy Farm and Stables.
Steep increases in operating costs, coupled with a whopping property tax bill, have left the Pentons unable to earn a living from their 4-acre spread in unincorporated Jefferson County, tucked neatly amid $500,000 tract homes and million-dollar McMansions.
“This doesn’t even support us and we work all the time,” says Christine, 48. “Enough is enough.”
The situation has the couple clamoring for a shift in the way their local, state and federal elected officials do business.
“Politics has got to change,” says the 49-year-old Stan. “I’m just looking for a level playing field, but politics has been going on as usual while Rome burns.”
In a battleground county in a battleground state in a presidential election that could come down to a handful of electoral votes, Stan and Christine Penton are the embodiment of voters that both parties are trying desperately to woo: unhappy about where they see their country going but uncertain that either candidate will make much difference. And like many other voters, they find that the shrill claims and counterclaims about Barack Obama and John McCain’s experience, age, temperament, friends and flip-flops make it hard to drill down to the substance on issues like the war, immigration, energy or health care, or even know which matters most.
But here in the well-heeled and pristine suburbs south of metropolitan Denver, the city where Democrats will convene on Monday to crown Obama as their standard-bearer, in the immortal words of longtime party operative James Carville, it’s the economy, stupid.
Little obvious turmoil
On the surface, it is hard to sense much economic angst in this area near Littleton, the seat of neighboring Arapahoe County. The town of 45,000 gained worldwide infamy in 1999 after a shooting rampage claimed 15 lives at Columbine High School, a mile from the Pentons’ place, but life has since returned to what passes for normal in these quiet, affluent suburbs. Wide thoroughfares curve gracefully through neighborhoods filled with handsome homes and well-landscaped yards. Open space seems almost as ubiquitous as the strip malls, their parking lots packed with SUVs and minivans. Parks, ball fields and golf courses are too plentiful to count.
With an economy fueled by an expanding high-tech sector and strong retail base, U.S. Census data pegs the median family income of the Littleton area in the high $70,000 range, about $20,000 above the national average. Median home prices are in the $250,000 range, roughly 25 percent higher than the national average. And, like Colorado as a whole, Denver and its suburbs have escaped much of the economic suffering visited upon other U.S. regions. Unemployment has edged up from below 4 percent last year to just over 5 percent, half a point below the national rate. And home prices have fallen only slightly compared with the plunges seen in Florida, California and elsewhere.
Don’t be fooled, Stan and Christine Penton say. Regardless of income, everyone has been hammered by the surge in gas, energy and food prices. They have friends with six-figure incomes whose power has been shut off over late payments. While the state as a whole appears to have turned the corner on home foreclosures — the late-ripening fruit of the nationwide mortgage-lending scandal — they are setting new records in Jefferson County.
Even some of the Pentons’ high-end clients, who own dressage and hunter-jumper horses worth more than $50,000, are downsizing their hobby, skipping riding competitions more than two hours away and looking for stables closer to their homes to save on gas.
That’s helping the Pentons keep their 51-stall barn busy at monthly rates of $625 to $725 per horse for “full care,” which includes twice-daily feedings, stall-cleaning and bedding. The resulting $325,000-plus in annual revenue might sound like a handsome return on the property with its 16,000-square-foot covered arena, small family home and other outbuildings, which the Pentons bought for $400,000 in 1995 after fleeing the smog and congestion of Southern California with eldest son, McKenzie, now 16.
‘A break-even deal’
But the family, which now includes another son, Spencer, 11, daughter Ana, 9, two cats, a dog, a pair of goats, a pony and an old blind cow, finds itself in a perfect storm of skyrocketing prices on almost everything needed to run business and home. At best, “this is just a break-even deal,” Stan says, and it always has been.
The Consumer Price Index may be rising at less than a 5 percent annual clip nationally, but that’s of little consolation to Stan as he ticks off the increases that Normandy Farm and Stables has faced recently on key operating costs: manure disposal up 17 percent; feed and grain up 27 percent; utilities up 46 percent. They have no regular employees, but their contract for cleaning and feeding services has gone up 18 percent.
“This junk here, which is already recycled, has gone up 50 percent in the last year,” says Stan, kicking a bale of paper stall-bedding made from shredded phone books.
The crowning blow to the operation’s bottom line has been a property tax increase that came after the Pentons razed their old stables and built a new arena and stall complex in 2000. Stan says the stable was reclassified, because assessors likened the covered arena to a warehouse, and their bill leaped from about $5,000 to $32,265 last year. They have been appealing ever since, recently retaining an attorney. Stan points out that nearby homes with the same valuation of about $1 million pay less than one-fourth the taxes.
“This is just a big patch of dirt covered with a roof, so stop it with the taxation,” Stan pleads.
Christine points out that the tax hike is especially hard to understand because nothing changed in the zoning of the property to allow them keep more horses than the 50 they were already permitted to have. “They didn’t increase our ability to make a profit to counter the taxes,” she says. In fact, requirements for a drainage pond took a good chunk of their land out of any use. “Think about it. If someone came to you and said they needed $30,000 more, what would you do?”
Forced to take a second job
Stan went to work at a full-time day job, as assistant manager of a health club in Denver. He spends days off from that job — Tuesdays and Wednesdays — and most of the rest of his waking hours handling billing, chores and maintenance at the stables along with his wife.
The Pentons’ finances suffered another blow a few years ago when they rented out their house on the stable property and bought a tract home a few miles away, hoping to create more of a sense of neighborhood for their kids, especially the two younger ones, whom they had recently adopted from Russia. But the plan failed to pencil out, both socially and financially, and by the time they moved back to the farm, Stan figures the foray had cost them $40,000.
While Stan’s job at the health club has kept the family above water, in recent months the rising price of gas has doubled the cost of his 28-mile round-trip commute, even though he ditched his big ranch truck for a midsize SUV about 18 months ago. He plans to look for something that gets better than 17 mpg when the lease expires soon.
Meanwhile, the family lives off Stan's salary from the health club and cuts corners wherever it can. Stan and Christine both chuckle at the notion that their impressive compound with its hunter-green-on-white buildings and clients’ BMWs and Porsches in the parking area bespeaks a life of wealth and leisure.
“Everything we get is Goodwill, Wal-Mart,” Christine says. “Our kids love to go to thrift stores. … We’re struggling a lot. I ride the bike, I drive the golf cart, I walk, I consolidate trips.” Other than a couple of the mustangs she has rescued and trained, Christine hasn’t even been able to afford to keep a horse of her own. She has given up going to the hairdresser. The family rarely even goes to first-run movies and has taken just a couple of driving vacations in recent years. McKenzie does attend an expensive boarding school, but only because the tuition is a gift from his grandmother.
“It’s more and more difficult every day,” Stan says, adding that a big part of their vision over the years has been “doing it for the community” by offering programs for the disabled and subsidizing some riders. “It’s a nice lifestyle but you want someday to be able to look at the fruits of your labor and say, ‘We can make a couple bucks.’”
‘You just get worn out’
Adds Christine, “We were so gung-ho when we started, but you just get worn out. We’ve done some nice things and we own a pretty facility, but if we’re not able to have an adjustment in our taxes, we’ll need to sell or I’ll have to get a job.”
The couple sees clear lines between government policy decisions and the financial straits that they and many other Americans currently find themselves in. Take energy, Stan says, maintaining that the lack of a comprehensive, forward-looking policy is responsible for rising gas prices and ineffective efforts to develop alternative sources. “You have to scratch your head about ethanol; that’s why feed prices here are a lot higher,” he says, pointing out that in addition to a drought currently affecting the state, much of the land formerly used to grow hay is now sprouting corn to make the grain alcohol. And his generally sunny disposition darkens dramatically at the mention of bailouts for subprime lenders and borrowers: “They should just let them all burn!”
With the family paying $10,000 a year for bare-bones health coverage, Christine wonders why the government hasn’t done more on this issue and has had trouble finding the information that would help her figure out whether Obama’s or McCain’s plan would be better for them.
Both Stan and Christine voted for President Bush in 2004, but their views are diverging on what they consider the most important political decision of their lives, with Stan planning to vote for McCain and Christine for Obama. Though neither is really happy with their choice, they spar with each other and with McKenzie, who while still too young to vote says he agrees with Obama more than McCain. These conversations are living proof of the electoral volatility that both sides hope to harness in towns like Littleton and states like Colorado.
Stan, a die-hard Republican, believes his party has failed to live up to its ideals in recent years but will stick with the GOP because “the alternative is worse.” He fears an Obama presidency would bring higher taxes and more government interference. “I am pretty much of a firm believer in self-reliance,” he says. “Get out of my life; get out of my way.”
Although no more enthusiastic than Stan, Christine is ready to give the Democrats a try. While she finds policy differences between the candidates “very confusing,” she believes that an African-American president could energize and revitalize the country in a number of ways.
Both Stan and Christine are keenly aware how agonizingly slow the pace of change can be once Congress and the federal bureaucracy are factored in.
“If people really think that all of a sudden things are going to change just because of a change in administration, I think they’re mistaken,” Stan says. “I don’t see a lot of happy days ahead.”
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{"commentId":2527084,"authorDomain":"LeviCro"}
its true what they say I guess... women are smarter then men.. you want change.. you need change... you vote for change....
a vote for McCain is not just a vote to destroy the American dream (which as this article can attest is dying fast).. its a vote to destroy America with the same policies that have put it in this bind... its NOT going to be easy to come out of this tail spin.... but McCain has already crashed and burned once.. he is rich.. has 10 houses... I think he will probably come out ok no matter what... Bush.. his ranch is totally off the grid... he is ready for disaster.. the rest of us.. we are pretty much screwed if it goes down that way
{"commentId":2527084,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"LeviCro"}
#26 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:51 AM EDT{"commentId":2527143,"authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
Actually, Levi, McCain apparently doesn't KNOW how many houses he owns ...
http://mikestuckey.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/21/1769576-mccain-not-sure-how-many-houses-he-owns
:)
{"commentId":2527143,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2527173,"authorDomain":"jefrbacon"}
Just because McCain doesn't want to increase taxes does not make him the same as Bush (or "McSame" as I keep seeing over and over). All Bush does is spend the government's money faster than it comes in on his pie in the sky ideals- just like Obama wants to do (different ideals, but just as ridiculous. That's not change, that more of the same just on the other extreme.
{"commentId":2527173,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jefrbacon"}
{"commentId":2527142,"authorDomain":"jamesgchristensen"}
The only way things may change quickly is if most People that elected the Administration in charge(house,senate and executive) for 6 Years, Votes with both left and right sides of Their Brain! I've seen what the republicans have done, nothing for the bottom TWO Classes in this Country. Vote a Democratic Ticket and give Them the chance to turn the Ship Upright!
If this Country goes any further down the Toilet than it has in the Last 8 Years (6 under republican dictatorship) I'm afraid Americans may be the next extremeists to make Their point by strapping explosives to themselves, ( I Pray Not ) but continue to slit the throat of the middle class, and everyone's risk goes up!
I am a white Male, willing to vote for change in hopes my four Grandsons have a better life than where the present Administration is leading Them NOW!!! Obama For Me!!
{"commentId":2527142,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jamesgchristensen"}
#27 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:55 AM EDT{"commentId":2527159,"authorDomain":"jssbw"}
I had some sympathy for them until I read that they voted for Bush. They got what they deserve by helping to put a moron in office. Vote for McCain and they can have four more years of the same.
{"commentId":2527159,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jssbw"}
#28 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:56 AM EDT{"commentId":2527201,"authorDomain":"jozzeethal"}
I believe that Stan and Christine are not really complaining about having to work for them selves all of the time. They are just stating facts, their taxes were raised for no apparent reason compared to the surrounding homes, Stan took on another job to help prevent falling behind in their bills, and Christine has done her due diligence at cutting back and still being available for her children - It is sad what is happening to our economy and I certainly agree with them that if the country thinks that choosing one particular party over the other is going to change the state of the nation, they are sadly mistaken. I have my daughter's family living with me because they could not sell their home in another state for $30,000 under what they paid for it so decided to rent it for less than their mortgage just so they can keep their heads above water.
{"commentId":2527201,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jozzeethal"}
- 1 vote
#29 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:59 AM EDT{"commentId":2527327,"authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
Jozzee -- Thanks for your insight. I think some Americans have trouble having empathy and compassion for others beacuse their first instinct is to judge what they see as mistakes or envy a situation that they perceive as being better than theirs. I see a lot of that attitude about the mortgage crisis. "I never would have gotten myself into that so they should have known better." It's disturbing.
{"commentId":2527327,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2528579,"authorDomain":"dbsuer"}
I agree Mike. It is very disturbing that the majority of the people commenting have absolutely no empathy for others and a "holier than thou" attitude towards people who have done more with the money they have earned. Envy is a very ugly emotion. I am signing off now. It's hard to see people behave this way.
{"commentId":2528579,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dbsuer"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2530624,"authorDomain":"stevemollett"}
It's easy to say, "life is tough. No guarantees! Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps."
It's harder to do what the Founding Fathers and the turn-of-the-20th-century Progressives did: "Life is tough. No guarantees...but how can we go about making life a bit easier and less hazardous for our people, by coming together in common cause?"
The entire reason people band together is to achieve benefits to the group that cannot be achieved by individuals working alone. If we keep THAT focus, we can achieve. If we don't, the group becomes a self-sustaining entity that does not benefit its members.
Governments should serve the needs of its citizens, and citizens should sustain the government in order to reap those benefits.
When the government demands, but gives nothing back, it no longer addresses common cause and makes slaves of the citizenry. When the citizens demand, but do not aid the government toward meeting their needs, it's like not investing a dime in a savings account and then wondering why the account isn't yielding interest.
Okay, I'll get off my high-falootin', 'Oliver-Wendell-Douglas' soapbox now. ;-)
{"commentId":2530624,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"stevemollett"}
{"commentId":2527259,"authorDomain":"frnd4vr"}
I think one of the points of this article is the property tax increase. One thing the family did not do, is check out what a new building would do to their property tax bill. These days that is vitally important so that you can be in control of what is going to be taxed. That bit of preventative research would save them the fight they are in now.
Despite Prop 13 controls in California, their are ways to manage your property tax increases when buying a new house or making improvements to a current one. It is vitally important to learn the rules before you make a change.
I feel greatly for their tax situation. In these days of limited taxing authority and government units that cannot control their own spending, the family is caught in the middle. I wish them good luck trying to revise their property tax assessment.
{"commentId":2527259,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"frnd4vr"}
#30 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:04 AM EDT{"commentId":2527326,"authorDomain":"randalyoung-1"}
Yes check property rate increases before you build.
{"commentId":2527326,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"randalyoung-1"}
{"commentId":2527378,"authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
The actually did some checking and were satisfied they were OK. After all, they did not change the use of the land one bit, nor did they increase the use. They knew the value of the property would go up from the improvements they made and were more than willing to pay that increase, but then their whole classification was changed, subjecting them to a much higher rate.
{"commentId":2527378,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"MikeStuckey"}
{"commentId":2529587,"authorDomain":"dale4765"}
Regarding the indoor riding arena, improperly classified as a "warehouse," that substantially increased property taxes: Indoor rings have no foundation or insulation and are normally considered "farm sheds" or something similar under applicable zoning laws. I would be interested to know whether any other indoor arenas have been built in Littleton in recent years. Perhaps this is a first for the zoning commission, and they saw the opportunity to classify the structure as a warehouse for a tax windfall, perhaps there aren't any agricultural classifications on the books, or perhaps the commission simply didn't know better and classified it as a warehouse because that's what it looks like from the outside. There is more information needed before other commentators can blast these people for not doing their homework.
{"commentId":2529587,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dale4765"}
{"commentId":2530690,"authorDomain":"stevemollett"}
Bureaucracy and legalese are not easy to slog through. By certain municipal mindsets, opening an umbrella outdoors could probably be interpreted as 'establishing a warehouse.' Sometimes the tail wags the dog.
{"commentId":2530690,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"stevemollett"}
{"commentId":2527307,"authorDomain":"jssbw"}
I had some sympathy for them until I read that they voted for Bush. They got what they deserve by helping to put a moron in office. Vote for McCain and they can have four more years of the same.
{"commentId":2527307,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jssbw"}
#31 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:07 AM EDT{"commentId":2527323,"authorDomain":"jssbw"}
I had some sympathy for them until I read that they voted for Bush. They got what they deserve by helping to put a moron in office. Vote for McCain and they can have four more years of the same.
{"commentId":2527323,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jssbw"}
#32 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:08 AM EDT{"commentId":2527338,"authorDomain":"crazyhairpat"}
Is there no humanity in this life! Those poor people with million dollar ranches. Everyone should pitch in and make sure they can continue to live the life style they are accustomed too. Where is george bush and the pretenders at a time like this?
{"commentId":2527338,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"crazyhairpat"}
#33 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:09 AM EDT{"commentId":2527354,"authorDomain":"sdg-73"}
stockcar19... and who is going to pay for the shortfall left by Bush and the Republicans in Congress? I can't stand it when people are short sighted against one party but the other can do no wrong. Here you are, whining about a $224 increase in property taxes, yet we're left with billons of dollars in debt from this administration, but that's okay... somehow the Dems are to blame for that too.
Joke!
{"commentId":2527354,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"sdg-73"}
- 3 votes
#34 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:10 AM EDT{"commentId":2527519,"authorDomain":"dougg-1957"}
You said it Sig.
{"commentId":2527519,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dougg-1957"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2531195,"authorDomain":"carlostoadvine"}
i dont either party is going to concentrate on the deficit when there is money to be spent. Don't kid yourself they are both worthless.
{"commentId":2531195,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"carlostoadvine"}
{"commentId":2527459,"authorDomain":"WISCMike"}
Not to get too political but as a republican and voting for Bush in 04, that's where part of the problem started. When you received Federal tax cuts. the State and local taxes have to rise to compensate for the loss of that revenue. Energy policies and the rest follow suite. My federal "tax cut" amounted to about $15 a pay check. Not a big deal considering what followed within months, everything locally increased incrementally and continues to this day. So stay republican, Vote for McCain see what "relief" you will find in Healthcare, Energy and Taxation.
{"commentId":2527459,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"WISCMike"}
- 4 votes
#35 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:17 AM EDT{"commentId":2527489,"authorDomain":"wcwjarhead"}
Apparently you just dropped into town in this neighborhood and didn't bother to check out all the Denver area. We still have a high foreclosure rate and a lot of homes have dropped 30,000 or more in value. Gas prices stay higher here longer since we are at the tail end of supply- after they shut all the refineries we used to have in this town.
Property taxes are higher here than a lot of places since all the governors have driven off big business- we don't have a large business tax base so homeowners and taxpayers - the middle class take up the slack.
Just wish the left wing media would actually check out the whole situation instead of coming with their already formed article and sticking in names and ficticious numbers. Those of us who live here know the situation and are very perturbed at the media making up its own facts.
{"commentId":2527489,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"wcwjarhead"}
#36 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:19 AM EDT{"commentId":2527649,"authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
No such thing as "left-wing media". Stop perpetuating that falsehood.
{"commentId":2527649,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2527500,"authorDomain":"linabline"}
Regardless of how people feel about the Penton's plight it's another story about our sad economy. What's wrong with people working hard and expecting to make a good profit? When taxes increase to the point people can't afford their property because of a building it's when we as Americans need to take a look at our local government and protest in numbers. The United States people have become way to complacent with what's going on around them and this is what we reap.
Voting for another crooked official isn't going to cut the bill. This is a business being abused next it will be your home. Oh yes it's already happening as I recently spoke to a nurse who's house in a middle class area went up 60% in the last couple of years. Personally I'm outraged how taxation such as this can happen at the stroke of a pen with no recourse but years of litigation to fight for what is rightfully yours in the first place. ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE TOO!!!!!
{"commentId":2527500,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"linabline"}
- 1 vote
#37 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:19 AM EDT{"commentId":2533829,"authorDomain":"mandjvilla"}
REVOLUTION!.......get ready.
{"commentId":2533829,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"mandjvilla"}
{"commentId":2527562,"authorDomain":"kevinb-1"}
This is nothing but a politically slanted article by our friends at PMSNBC.
We ALL have it harder than we did a year or two ago. Too bad! Between my wife and I we have 4 jobs and are thankful that we are able to keep up with rising prices for EVERYTHING by working hard.
Everybody has options but wants to blame others for their situations or have someone else bail them out of their troubles. We live in a free (for now) country. So the country has a 6% unemployment rate, I guess that means 94% who want to work have jobs. I love this country and if you don't......LEAVE!
Working my butt off and loving every minute of it.
{"commentId":2527562,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kevinb-1"}
#38 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:23 AM EDT{"commentId":2529402,"authorDomain":"lakeworthguy"}
Working my butt off and loving every minute of it.
Why would anyone in their right mind love working their butt off????
You do realize that there is a lot more to life (and certainly love) than work, don't you?
{"commentId":2529402,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"lakeworthguy"}
{"commentId":2529944,"authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
Who takes care of your kids?
{"commentId":2529944,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
{"commentId":2530032,"authorDomain":"tleps"}
Yes there is - but don't cry when such choices limit your income. Sorry, but this seems to just be another "I should be able to do what I want and it's up to someone else (the government, maybe?) to figure out how to make my lifestyle affordable...". When one has chosen to take on debt one must at some point figure out how such is going to be paid for. That goes for countries too.
sad.
{"commentId":2530032,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"tleps"}
{"commentId":2543168,"authorDomain":"spfeiffer13"}
Sorry but you have distorted the facts again. 6% unemployment does not mean that 94% of the people who want job have them. Once someone's unemployment benefits run out, they fall out of the equation. Also, those that do not receive unemployment benefits aren't counted at all!
{"commentId":2543168,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"spfeiffer13"}
{"commentId":2527570,"authorDomain":"billm-2"}
These people think they're in trouble now, just wait until the Democrats have one party control over the government - they'll be taxed back to the stone age!!! I live in Massachusetts "Taxachusetts" to everyone else and since "Mr Hope and Change version 1 - Deval Patrick" took over we have gone from the tax surpluses of the Mitt Romney years to huge deficits as the Democrats always love to spend more.
Voters need to wake up - Obama has no idea what he is doing - we can not afford to take this risk on the most inexperienced person ever to run for the most important job in the world. Don't compare him to Abraham Lincoln, as you are only highlighting your lack of knowledge in history. Lincoln had been a fixture on the national stage for 14 years when he ran for government and also took positions on issues - people knew where he stood. Obama is an embarrassment and the fact that anyone would actually consider voting for this man - is a sad comment on our society.
{"commentId":2527570,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"billm-2"}
- 1 vote
#39 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:24 AM EDT{"commentId":2527809,"authorDomain":"gtarden"}
Bill
Please, give me a break. Your state has been squeezed just like most of the rest of ours because of the Bush tax cuts for the extremely wealthy.
As for experience, I'm assuming you voted for W. in 2000 and 2004. How much experience did he have, really?
And how's the last 7.5 years working out for you, BTW?
Until we come up with a viable 3rd party we have no choice but to elect Obama. At least he can formulate a complete sentence.
Do you really want 4 more years of this crap? If so, I guess your one of McCain's $5 Million a year supporters.
{"commentId":2527809,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"gtarden"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2527844,"authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
"most inexperienced ever to run for the most important job in the world"....Yeah right. I've got news for you. The "qualifications" for the job consist of winning the election. No where in the Constitution are any job related experience qualifications mentioned.
No one could be any worse than GW Bush as a President. The record speaks for itself there. Our enemies carried out the most horrific act ever on American soil on his watch. He told us the answer to the threat was to spend money we didn't have, and the economy, reeling from his bloated budgets and terrible fiscal policies, is in the tank. We cannot muster any support against Russia's aggression due to his trampling on the goodwill that the world offered to America after 9-11 by invading Iraq without cause. He allowed American spies to be "outed" by his own administration, (in a time of war) and then forgave the culprits.
If you are looking for an "embarrassment", look at your leader. Any sane objective person would see Bush as the biggest "embarrassment" to ever hold the office.
No one knows what Obama would do as President (stop saying you do), but most twelve-year-olds could do no worse than Bush.
{"commentId":2527844,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2529645,"authorDomain":"gcarter0530"}
AMEN!!!! I will go further try 6yr old and after 8yrs of this current Administration I'm incline to believe a bag of rocks was more qualified them him.
{"commentId":2529645,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"gcarter0530"}
{"commentId":2543220,"authorDomain":"spfeiffer13"}
dagman & Kevin D-289686,
My thoughts exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself!
{"commentId":2543220,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"spfeiffer13"}
{"commentId":2527608,"authorDomain":"smvcpa09"}
Wake up fellow citizens of America. These economic woes we are experiencing are all part of a larger plan put in place by the ultra wealthy bankers running this country and the world. This has happened before, in 1914, in 1927, again in the 1980s, and 1990s, and now in the new millinium. You think you know what is going on but listen up...everyone better go online and watch this 2 hour online video called www.zeitgeistmovie.com and pay attention, for your future and the future of your children depend on it. There is much more going on you DO NOT UNDERSTAND but this video will open your eyes, and blow you right away. Watch it at home, without distraction, and then do some searching and you will find that all facts are true. Otherwise, welcome to slavery worldwide people.
{"commentId":2527608,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"smvcpa09"}
#40 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:26 AM EDT{"commentId":2527636,"authorDomain":"smvcpa09"}
{"commentId":2527653,"authorDomain":"jeremyfive"}
{"commentId":2527675,"authorDomain":"srochow"}
I have no idea why a family that gives this much to the community shouldn't have the same kind of tax break from it's county and state that other businesses get. They should benefit from all the hours of community service they give each year to charitable causes. County and state governments frequently give breaks to hospitals, tech companies, and other businesses to attract new companies that promise new jobs. The charitable programs being offered by this fine community family should be considered as an enormous asset to the quality of their community, and as such, should be considered eligible for some helpful tax breaks.
{"commentId":2527675,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"srochow"}
#43 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:31 AM EDT{"commentId":2529903,"authorDomain":"21stJohn"}
Susan,
I don't remember the article stating that this family gave anything to the community for free. The terms used were programs for the disabled and handicapped to include subsidized prices for other services offered. Subsidized does not mean free. Those costs are likely just picked up by an actual charity who is willing to pay the costs for the benefits of benefactors that meet their organizations cause. This article clearly states that this family charges stall fees for boarding on top of lessons offered. If this family were to be giving away services for free as in charity they would be eligible for more breaks. This is clearly a business for profit. The owners of this business are upset because they do not have enough profit although they have a million dollar business. This situation does not merit my sympathy. They have opportunities to live well above the problems most Americans are now faced with. And to conclude this let's quote our charitable man Stan, "And his generally sunny disposition darkens dramatically at the mention of bailouts for subprime lenders and borrowers: "They should just let them all burn!"
While I agree that the lenders should suffer for predatory practices, I do not believe that millions of possibly less educated, misinformed, and financially undisciplined citizens of this country should become homeless and financially devastated when they should have never been given these loans in the first place. There is a good reason for strong lending standards and in this case all were ignored for the purpose of greed. I do not think anyone would give a bag of crack rock to a drug addict and in the future expecting to get it back later with more crack in it. Nor should a responsible lending institution expect to give large sums of money to people who have poor credit and then expect it back with a with large amount of interest. Too many people have lost their homes to this because of what is considered a bad investment on their side. Lenders took the same risks. They should fail also so that better lenders can step up.
{"commentId":2529903,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"21stJohn"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2527726,"authorDomain":"jimradio"}
i know i'm going to sound foolish, but a long time ago i read a book by some sort of radical woman, who said, 'always question the assumptions.' in other words, the reality that's been around so long no one even questions 'why'. so i come back to one of my pet peeves....
why...why...why...if you OWN...OWN...OWN...a property, do you have to pay the government every year to keep it???
don't you OWN it? isn't it yours??? so if you have to pay the govenment every year to keep it, doesn't that mean you actually rent it..or lease it...to the real owners?
question fundamentals. WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING IF I OWN...OWN...OWN THE PROPERTY?
and responding by saying, 'well the government needs money', or that 'the governemnt has the power to tax', isn't an answer. that gives them the power..but it doesn't answer the question.
REVOLUTION NOW!
{"commentId":2527726,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"jimradio"}
- 2 votes
#44 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:34 AM EDT{"commentId":2527952,"authorDomain":"gtarden"}
So you don't want to pay taxes?
Then I assume you're OK with the bill for your clean water that is delivered via municipal water system, your sewer bill to clean what you flush, the up keep and repair of the roads that lead to and from your property, your local police force, fire department should your property burn down.
{"commentId":2527952,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"gtarden"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2528039,"authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
Who should pay for the road and the street lights in front of their property? Who should pay for the police and other safety related personnel? Who should pay for the military, public libraries and schools, the armed forces? Who should pay for the highways and their upkeep?
If property taxes are taken out of the tax base they will be replaced by another form of taxation. Property taxes are among the most fair taxes there are. Everybody knows, or should know, what their property taxes will be when they buy or add value to their land. They then can decide for themselves whether they wish to pay the tax or fore-go the purchase.
These people are running a business. They should know their expenses and income. They should make their business decisions based on financial conditions unless they are in it for the enjoyment of working with horses and their owners.
Businesses fail all the time.
{"commentId":2528039,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2529381,"authorDomain":"dougg-1957"}
Kevin, I just wish the government would run like a business, or for that matter, a schumch like me. Then they may not have to raise taxes so much.
{"commentId":2529381,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dougg-1957"}
{"commentId":2529558,"authorDomain":"lakeworthguy"}
Oh God...here we go with the Libertarian rant again....
And CC57 - Why in God's name would you want to run a government like a business????? The sole reason that a business exists is to transfer wealth from the many to the few. Businesses and government have NOTHING in common with each other!!!!
{"commentId":2529558,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"lakeworthguy"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2529654,"authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
You could be right. I think a change in leadership might help. It really can't hurt.
If the government were a business, I guess it would be asking for a bailout right now due to it's poor decisions...oh wait....I guess they are doing that when asking for more taxes.
The Fed has to rob the States to pay for it's mistakes. The States rob the Counties and Cities to do the same. The Cities then have to raise taxes any way they can to provide local services. At least Bush can say HE doesn't raise taxes. But by making others do it to pay for his decisions, isn't he doing so by surrogate?
{"commentId":2529654,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kdoylegti"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2529989,"authorDomain":"dougg-1957"}
Florida-kes,
It would be nice if the government at least tried to curb spending, so taxes wouldn't have to be raised. It would be nice if the government would for once look into the future and get ahead of the game. It would be nice if some of the pork could be cut.
I'm not talking about the government making money like a business. I'm talking about the government being responsible for it's decisions. If I ran my house like the government, I'D BE BANKRUPT.
I guess I could say, the way business runs today, maybe your right.
{"commentId":2529989,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dougg-1957"}
{"commentId":2530212,"authorDomain":"gritty63"}
You are really reaching now to say that GW is responsible for State, Counties and Cities raising their respective taxes. The Federal Gov't shouldn't be involved with anything at the State level including giving them money.
The State Gov't blaming the loss of federal money for their financial mismanagement is the same as a corporate CEO asking for a bailout because 'short sellers' are are forcing his corp. into bankruptcy.
Both are merely trying to cover their own inabilities at running things.
{"commentId":2530212,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"gritty63"}
{"commentId":2527743,"authorDomain":"dbsuer"}
We own a 10 acre small horse ranch in Idaho. No borders, though, not big enough. We have a short commute to town about 6 miles. Daughter attends public school about 10 miles one way. I work from home and my husband is a contractor who travels 35 miles one way. The increase in the cost of fuel, energy, food, living expenses has become quite a burden. We have been blessed to live a life that we worked hard to acheive for our entire lives (we are the same age at the Pentons) and finally get to where we always wanted to be, through very hard work and sacrifices and now it looks like what we have will come to an end soon because of unforeseen rises in the cost of living. This is not the American Dream. It is the American Nightmare. Yes, we have been blessed with material things, but only because of very hard work. We have sold the boat, trying to sell some property we own and our SUV in an attempt to scale down and to make ends meet, but in doing so have found that what we have, although very nice, is not worth anything. Nobody is buying and we are sinking fast. Considering home schooling our daughter because we can't afford the fuel to drive to school and back twice a day and no one wants to buy the SUV so we can get an economy car. Lost our medical insurance because we had to buy groceries instead. Can't afford the propane to heat our house anymore. Thank goodness we have a wood burning stove and some timber to cut. It does not matter how expensive or inexpensive a house you live in, if you drive a SUV or a Pinto. We are all in the same boat so to speak. We all work hard for what we have and don't like changing our lifestyles. We did not live beyond our means a few years ago but the cost of living has creeped up way beyond our means recently and so quickly that it is forcing a change upon us that is not very pleasant. It's not a case of "poor rich people". We came from very meager beginnings and worked very hard for what we have, just like any other family and homeowner.
{"commentId":2527743,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dbsuer"}
#45 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:35 AM EDT{"commentId":2527755,"authorDomain":"dan-13"}
a horse farm is something you do for the love of the horse and the lifestyle. we have horses because we love the lifestyle. i don't know anyone in the horse boarding business who is getting rich.
i would say you have to think outside of the box and try to find other revenue streams. its no different than any other business, it's a struggle at times but isn't it great to be self employed. they seem like really nice people but not everyone is cut out to be self employed. these are tough times so you just have to hussle around and find a way to make it work.
horse lover
{"commentId":2527755,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"dan-13"}
#46 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:36 AM EDT{"commentId":2530121,"authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
Yes. These are tough times. And I hope that a democratic administration can change that like they have done before.
{"commentId":2530121,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
{"commentId":2527796,"authorDomain":"daveb-1"}
It's nice to see die hard Bushies having to work to make ends meet. Does anyone remember what the cost of gas was during the election year of 2004. It was $1.35 a gallon. People who vote republican only have themselves to blame if they didn't see this coming. Nothing's going to change under McCain, prices will continue to rise, the wars drag on, and the government will spend more than what it takes in. Good conservative policies.
{"commentId":2527796,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"daveb-1"}
#47 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:39 AM EDT{"commentId":2527799,"authorDomain":"wron"}
Good article and comments but rather than drilling as promoted by McCain, Gingrich, etc. there is a quicker way to cut the price of oil.
Cut spending and strengthen the dollar. A Euro used to be below .90 and now it's climbing back toward $1.50. Oil is priced in dollars so Europeans are buying fuel at approximately over a third less than we are.
{"commentId":2527799,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"wron"}
- 1 vote
#48 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:39 AM EDT{"commentId":2527855,"authorDomain":"walsher"}
ever notice that when poor little rich aristocrats with enough family money to buy lot's of property and send their kids to boarding school can't afford german sportscars, it is somehow the fault of entitelment class and high taxes. These people wouldn't know hardship if it bit them on the arse. I hope they can hang on till granny dies and they can resume the lifestyle they were born into. "get out of my life, stay out of my way"?????? did he say that to granny? Self reliance, what a crock. This guy was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. I hope him and his family burn as well. Disgusting
{"commentId":2527855,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"walsher"}
- 2 votes
#49 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:42 AM EDT{"commentId":2527864,"authorDomain":"kpboord"}
A couple of points...
First... Everyone "frets" about the economy. The real question is whether or not you believe that government is the answer to fix it. Time and again, history has told us that there is tipping point where government involvement will hurt the economy rather than help it. In this story, the government is the one that has caused a great deal of the pain due to the ridiculous increase of property taxes.
Second... No economy ever continues in a continual upward pattern. It always cycles. Right now, we are in the throws of a downward cycle that has been caused by the American populous living beyond their means. While I'm not a Dave Ramsey fan, if we all did what he preaches and "Act your wage!" then many of the issues we're seeing today would either not exist, or we would be better able as families to deal with them.
{"commentId":2527864,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kpboord"}
#50 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:43 AM EDT{"commentId":2527990,"authorDomain":"gtarden"}
are you aware of how stagnant wages have been in comparison to the cost of living over the last 30 years. Go look it up.
{"commentId":2527990,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"gtarden"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2530288,"authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
I agree with you. And that is why I think that the trickle down theory of econics did not work and will not work. The theory that less taxes for the wealthy will result in more investment, assumes that people will invest the money wisely. They apparently spent it on things that could not be maintained. And it has not only been horse farmers that have done this.
{"commentId":2530288,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
{"commentId":2527905,"authorDomain":"kevinb-1"}
CDA
Change your attitude. It is YOU who got yourself into this situation and it should be YOU getting yourself out of this situation. We need to live BELOW our means so when things like this happen we can adapt. No one guaranteed your dreams would come true, but I don't believe you are living a nighmare either.
{"commentId":2527905,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"kevinb-1"}
#51 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:45 AM EDT{"commentId":2527937,"authorDomain":"scarabsoftware"}
Waaaaa Waaaa Keep crying you bleeding hearts. It's a freaking horse farm worth more than $1 mil. I'm pretty sure that asset level puts them in the 'rich' category that all the dems want to pay more taxes. You libs really need to get some consistency.
{"commentId":2527937,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"scarabsoftware"}
#52 - Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:47 AM EDT{"commentId":2528018,"authorDomain":"gtarden"}
According to McCain these people are paupers.
{"commentId":2528018,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"gtarden"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2529182,"authorDomain":"williams2692001"}
you conservatives need to start acting like what you say you are. Not borrowing and spending your children's standard of living to facilitate your bloated one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
{"commentId":2529182,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"williams2692001"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2530403,"authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
Maybe if they had to pay higher taxes for the last 8 years, they would not have over-extended themselves.
{"commentId":2530403,"threadId":"336274","contentId":"1766255","authorDomain":"admasco4945-1"}
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