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PrintEgypt septuplets stir debate on fertility drugs
Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
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ALEXANDRIA, Egypt - The 27-year-old woman and her husband already had three children — all girls. They badly wanted a boy, and she had not conceived in five years, so doctors gave her hormones.
The startling result was healthy septuplets — four boys and three girls — heralded by Egyptian doctors as a miracle. But debate persists about the ethics of fertility treatment in a nation where medical oversight is lax, incubators and neonatal respirators are rare, and many families face pressure to have a son.
In addition, Egypt faces concerns about overpopulation and cheap fertility drugs could lead to a wave of multiple births. President Hosni Mubarak warned in June that growth is hindering Egypt's economy, saying Egypt's population of 79 million — mostly crammed into the 3 percent of the country's area around the Nile River — will double by 2050.
For the mother, Ghazala Khamis, the most pressing question now is how her impoverished family is going to get by.
'I'm really scared'
"I'm really scared," she said, lying in her hospital bed in this Mediterranean coastal city. "We live in a mud hut with only two rooms. I don't know how we're going to afford 10 children now."
Khamis' husband Farag Mohammed Ali, a 31-year-old farm laborer, can find work only a few days a week, she said. "I'm really worried about what the future looks like."
Much about the Aug. 16 birth, by Caesarean section, was stunning. The babies are large for a multiple birth, weighing between 3 pounds 3 ounces and 4 pounds 10 ounces each. The duration of the pregnancy was also the longest ever for septuplets — 34 weeks.
By contrast, the world's first surviving septuplets, born to the McCaughey family in Iowa in 1997, came at 31 weeks and the biggest baby weighed about the same as Khamis' smallest. There are two other sets of surviving septuplets, both born to Saudi women.
Khamis' doctors waited so long to deliver the babies because Egypt has only a few respirators for newborns, and none were available. So for weeks, doctors kept Khamis in Alexandria's Shatby Maternity University Hospital, letting the fetuses develop enough that their lungs could function on their own after birth. But the wait also increased the risk to the mother.
"We were simply blessed by God that no complication happened ... If there had been a complication, Ghazala would have died," Dr. Mahmoud Meleis, who performed the Caesarean section, told The Associated Press.
After their birth, images on television showed the boys — Mohammad, Kareem, Bilal and Yassin — and girls — Israa, Habiba and Do'a — lying side-by-side in two makeshift incubators, oxygen hoods covering their heads. Four were then whisked by ambulance to two other hospitals because there were not enough incubators at Shatby.
Except for the television images, Khamis has not yet seen all her babies; she has been able to hold and breast-feed only the three at Shatby. Though she was ready to leave days after the birth, she remains hospitalized because she has nowhere to stay in Alexandria, a four-hour drive from her farming village of Ezbat Emara.
Last week, baby girl Habiba and boys Yassin and Mohammed were resting in incubators at Shatby, tiny caps on their heads — red for the boys and lime green for the girl. All were breathing on their own, though Habiba and Yassin wore protective eye patches.
Some Western medical ethicists have questioned the use of fertility drugs by a young woman who already has three children, considering the risk of multiple births.
"This is a medical failure," said Guido Pennings, a professor of fertility ethics at the University of Ghent in Belgium. "You cannot take this risk because of the complications to the mother and the babies."
Pennings, who was not involved in the case, said Khamis' doctors should have been more careful in prescribing fertility drugs to a woman who had already demonstrated she was capable of conceiving.
"Twenty-seven with three children: That woman is fertile," he said. "Even if she had a period of infertility, that's an indication that you should be careful when you stimulate" ovulation.
Some Egyptian doctors are worried that the mix of cheap fertility treatments and Egyptians' eagerness to have many children could lead to more risky multiple pregnancies — which the country's health system cannot handle. Locally made versions of the drugs are government-subsidized and only cost about $7.50 a shot.
Pressure to produce a son
There is also pressure on women to produce a son as a point of pride and for financial reasons. Boys help families by working and earning incomes — often at a young age — and they ensure inheritance, since daughters and wives can only inherit a portion of their father's money, and if there are no male children, the bulk goes to the fathers' brothers.
"The important question to ask is why did she want to become pregnant after already having three children," said Hassan Sallam, head of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Alexandria.
"It's because she had three daughters and didn't have a boy. In many parts of Egypt, if she doesn't have a boy, it's as if she didn't have children at all."
Khamis sought fertility treatment five years after her youngest daughter, 5-year-old Rahma, was born because she was having trouble conceiving and wanted a boy, said her doctor, Abdel-Rahim Moussa.
He said he prescribed fertility drugs to stimulate egg production. After five injections, he recommended Khamis and her husband have intercourse.
The doctor said he was stunned when he later found nine heartbeats; he said he couldn't remember whether he did a sonogram to see how many eggs had developed before recommending the couple try to conceive.
"It's just so rare that all the eggs would get fertilized with regular intercourse," he said.
The doctor said he strongly advised Khamis to undergo fetal reduction, in which some fetuses are terminated to ensure the safety of the others and the mother. But he also told her there was the possibility of losing all the fetuses, and Khamis refused. Later, two of the fetuses were lost during the course of the pregnancy.
Emad Darwish, the hospital director, said Khamis should have received more counseling about fetal reduction. "I have performed several reductions and have never had a case where I lost all the fetuses. She needed to know that," he said.
Religious decree on fetal reduction
Although Islam forbids abortion, Darwish said a recent religious decree by Islamic authorities at the country's main Sunni religious institution, Al Azhar mosque, allows fetal reductions due to the high risk to the mother and babies in a multiple pregnancy.
The real problem, doctors say, is a lack of guidelines in Egypt for fertility treatment and not enough facilities to deal with high-risk pregnancies. There are no restrictions on what fertility treatments or drugs can be given, and Egypt does little enforcement of pharmaceutical purity or standards.
Facilities for the septuplets' birth were poor. The Health Ministry sent incubators that were not sterile, there were not enough for all seven babies and there was no air conditioning in the operating room.
"There are just no rules or protocols for doctors to follow in this country," said Meleis. "Laws will be passed and they are not followed or implemented. No one had any idea what to do when it came to Ghazala's births — it sort of all just happened."
Sallam said he hoped the case would make doctors realize that "women can actually get pregnant with seven, eight or nine babies" and would open the way to discussion of fetal reduction.
"We need to tell people that it is safe and that it is OK religiously," he said.
Khamis, meanwhile, is pleading for help for her family. The Health Ministry has pledged milk and diapers for two years, but Khamis says what she really needs is an apartment in Alexandria to be closer to doctors.
In line with some Egyptian traditions, each of the septuplets was given a name on their birth certificates, then a second "nickname." The children were nicknamed after Mubarak and his family — in hopes of winning government help for the children, the mother's brother, Khamis Khamis said.
Surrounded by family in her sweltering room, a cockroach crawling on the ceiling above her head, Khamis raised her head from a pillow when news came that her husband had named the babies.
"They should have asked me first," she said after hearing the names. "I wanted one to be called Abdel-Rahim," after her doctor.
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{"commentId":2597989,"authorDomain":"chang14000"}
I think if someone would rather pursue fertility treatments than adoption, that is fine. Its their choice and their business.
I decided to do IVF to have my child. I do not feel obligated to adopt other peoples' children. Of course, I wonder why they chose to have kids they could not support, but its not my responsibility to adopt their kids.
I have no guilt or regrets about not pursuing adoption.
{"commentId":2597989,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"chang14000"}
- 2 votes
#26 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:34 PM EDT{"commentId":2598176,"authorDomain":"niki1111"}
You are self absorbed and insensitive of other people's needs. I think it is narcissistic to pursue fertility treatments such as IVF as your child actually adds one more soul to this overpopulated planet. We all are responsible for our foot prints on this earth and fertility treatments are way on top of selfishness. The fact that you can afford to raise your child is shortsighted.
{"commentId":2598176,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"niki1111"}
{"commentId":2599390,"authorDomain":"chang14000"}
Oh shut up. I am glad I pursued fertility treatments to have my child. Otherwise I wouldn't have her! Screw anyone who has a problem with it. Its my body, and I get to make my own medical decisions.
{"commentId":2599390,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"chang14000"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2599459,"authorDomain":"angkriv"}
alumette,
My children are IVF and I am no more selfish than anyone else that conceives and bears a child.
I hope you are childless since your views are so severe. Would not want any of your offspring using up the earths resources.
{"commentId":2599459,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"angkriv"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2598015,"authorDomain":"ngram69-1"}
What pisses me off is that family, the Duggars, who just had their 18th. I mean I could care less how many kids a family has, what makes me mad is the fact that they hardly pay any income tax because of it. You can claim up to 10 and once you do the Feds take little if anything out, I know because my neighbors have ten kids (mormon). They use ten times the tax base as I do yet pay ten times less tax than I do. If McNut gets elected he wants to give a $7000 a child tax credit which will mean my neighbor who only makes $60,000 a year will get $70,000 worth of deductions. How is that going to work?
{"commentId":2598015,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"ngram69-1"}
- 2 votes
#27 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:36 PM EDT{"commentId":2598075,"authorDomain":"niki1111"}
Hardly a miracle! An absolute medical disaster. The physicians that gave the hormones to the couple should raise the kids. These idiots wanted a boy......well now they have a collection of boys and girls. Having a boy in Arabic culture is important so after having three kids, they wanted one more. That request was unrealistic and should have been ignored. We need to stop the use and abuse of fertility drugs. There is a reason why people can't have kids and they need to move on to other things like taking care of orphans already on the planet. That would be the way to go, not trying to reproduce yourself. Enough....enough of that narcissism.
{"commentId":2598075,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"niki1111"}
- 2 votes
#28 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:40 PM EDT{"commentId":2599324,"authorDomain":"took43583"}
And how many orphans have YOU adopted, alumette? If there is an inherent moral imperative to adopt, then I guess you are raising at least one child that you adopted from the foster care system.
Adoption is not like going down to the local grocery store to pick up some food, nor should it be. The screening process is rigorous--although not rigorous enough given the recent cases of children adopted by pedophiles. It is also prohibitively expensive. This woman was likely given clomiphene citrate, a relatively inexpensive fertility drug that you can pick up for under $50 per treatment cycle in the USA, and probably for even less in Egypt. Compare this to the tens of thousands that couples spend to adopt, and you can see why they chose this option.
Don't criticize them for using fertility drugs, criticize them for being a couple with ***completely normal fertility*** who were so selfish as to not be satisfied with the three girls they already had. Better yet, criticize the Egyptian culture that made them think they were worthless without a son.
Now for those who are truly infertile and childless, drugs like clomiphene are a godsend. Would you tell people with bodies that are otherwise malfunctioning that there is a "reason" why they cannot do certain things? For example, would you tell a nearsighted person to eschew eyeglasses because some deity has decreed that he was not meant to see clearly? Should people with cavities just have their diseased teeth pulled rather than spend money on fillings and crowns because you see tooth decay as some form of divine punishment?
God does not hand out pregnancies on the merit system, believe me. What "reason" do you suppose __(insert your chosen higher power here)_— has for allowing crack whores and child abusers to get pregnant? If there is a good "reason" behind who is or is not fertile, as you claim, then the being that is in charge of it all should be divinely sterilizing those who would abuse or neglect their progeny, expose them to neurotoxins in the womb, or leave them in the toilet when they give birth during the junior prom.
And before you pull out the classic "women become infertile due to STDs, therefore it is thier own fault" chestnut, realize that the two most common causes of female infertility are ***non-infectious*** diseases with a genetic component: Polycystic ovary syndrome and endometriosis. You can be a virgin who marries another virgin and still be infertile.
{"commentId":2599324,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"took43583"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":2598168,"authorDomain":"crackdnout"}
Multiples run a high risk of physical and mental problems. I would like to read a ten and twenty year follow up. The mom was extremely worried before she even got off the table - what a way to start a life with the new little ones. Poor thing - I predict a major meltdown.
{"commentId":2598168,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"crackdnout"}
#29 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:47 PM EDT{"commentId":2598432,"authorDomain":"buckwheat22148"}
The earth cannot sustain families that have more than two children. Those who have more are irresponsible and quite selfish. This man and woman will be burdoned for many years due to their foolish behavior. Shame on them and shame on the medical profession that allows such behavior!
{"commentId":2598432,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"buckwheat22148"}
- 1 vote
#30 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:07 PM EDT{"commentId":2598510,"authorDomain":"pveach52"}
Even tho this family is poor as well as their country I think it was "meant to be" with all the babies being so healthy.This is rare.They do need help and I would like to see the U.S step in to help.I personally would love to help this family but since I'm middle class just trying to get by myself it is impossible.The U.S. helps everyone else why not this family in great need of assistance?
{"commentId":2598510,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"pveach52"}
#31 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:13 PM EDT{"commentId":2598869,"authorDomain":"eyaldo"}
Penny,
If it was "meant to be" as you stated, they wouldn't have needed fertility treatments. They violated nature and God by doing this.
As far as your comments that the U.S. should help them...why? Don't we have enough welfare recipients in THIS country???
I'm sick of everyone wanting a handout!!! It has caused so much laziness and irresponsibility.
I think it's nice that you'd like to help, but I think your comments are naive.
{"commentId":2598869,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"eyaldo"}
{"commentId":2598935,"authorDomain":"Dijana17"}
Although i agree with your saying that the U.S. should help them,
i don't think it was quite "meant to be",
since 7 survived, and 2 fetuses were lost.
I personally think a family's choice on how many kids they have, is just that,
the FAMILY'S choice. Who are we to push our beliefs on them?
BUT, i do admit that i think their decision was seriously irresponsible,
as they already had 3 kids and probably struggled to care for those 3.
Then getting hormones just to have a boy?
They obviously didn't anticipate more than one birth.
And don't even get me started on the obvious sexism.
{"commentId":2598935,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"Dijana17"}
{"commentId":2600139,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
I will revolt is ONE PENNY of my tax money is spent to help any one of these kids. This is Egypt's problem, not the US's.
Let me know when we no longer have an overwhelmed foster care system, babies being abandoned at hospitals, or children starving here in the US.. and maybe THEN I will be OK with feeding someone else's children.
{"commentId":2600139,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2607208,"authorDomain":"countrygirl1971"}
I would be interested in the specifics of why the US - specifically - should step in and help this family. This couple made a choice. Their doctors made a choice. If the couple is religious, then their religious leaders were involved in the choice. Many in Egypt live in poverty, however, Egypt already receives a lot of US foreign aid. I am currently an agnostic, but I still like that old saying, "God helps those who help themselves." If you don't like that one then how about "Charity begins at home." Their home is in Egypt.
{"commentId":2607208,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"countrygirl1971"}
{"commentId":2598660,"authorDomain":"outsydress"}
I worry too about the babies safety. They live in a two room mud hut. I want to so badly help them out or adopt one of the baby girls.
It is very sad.
{"commentId":2598660,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"outsydress"}
#32 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:23 PM EDT{"commentId":2599404,"authorDomain":"gregandbonny"}
You worry about the babies living in a two room mud hut? Have you ever given any thought to how many millions of babies and children there are in the world that would find it a luxury to be in a mud hut? To have even the slightest bit of food and fresh water?
Wake up - why is it always up to the U.S. to take care of everything? We can't take of the people in this country! The Egyptian government needs to take care of their own people and punish those (the doctor) who are causing such problems in the first place.
{"commentId":2599404,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"gregandbonny"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2598752,"authorDomain":"amydossandres4"}
Someone earlier said that Iowa was the "boondocks." I'm pretty sure their home is not a mud hut of 2 rooms and a dirt floor. What kind of backward as* hilljacks are having that many babies in that underdeveloped country? The husband named all of the babies--what's up with that??? ISLAMMMMMMMMMMMMM--backward hill jacks--just to get a boy. I do not understand that way of thinking, but I don't live there and am dam* sure not Muslim, so it's way behind the civilized culture here in the US. I would also like to send donations to them. Let us know how if anyone finds out.
{"commentId":2598752,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"amydossandres4"}
#33 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:30 PM EDT{"commentId":2598826,"authorDomain":"adonald104"}
Seriously for those that want to send "donations to Egypt", do you really think an Egyptian reading one of the many sad stories this country has produced will send "donations to the USA"? No way! There are enough poor children in this country that need donations, and dont have parents to plead for them. These babies were conceived and born purposefully. They now need to purposefully raise their own children. Too many women in America cannot afford fertility drugs but CAN afford children but must spend life without what they want the most. This couple and their physician made the WRONG decision. My goodness even the country of Egypt couldnt afford to take care of these kids from birth. Why give fertility drugs if you cant afford the medical equipment to have the babies survive and the parents are too poor to even care for themselves?
{"commentId":2598826,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"adonald104"}
- 1 vote
#34 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:36 PM EDT{"commentId":2598835,"authorDomain":"marbearz"}
#18, MaryMc.....Don't know what United States you live in, but not everyone has access to medical care, food and shelter here. Not at least in my "downtown", midwestern, boondocks area of the US. I could see someone living in a cardboard box everyday of my life if I had the guts to go looking for them.
I am with Sharat on this one...someone is grossly irresponsible (um..doctors) in allowing this to happen. In the Duggers case, where in the h ell do they find time to f ack with 17 other kids. Holy freeholies, Batman...somebody just needs to stop!
It is sad, however, that more value is placed upon boys than girls in their culture. ?? That will never change. So, in the mean time, they now have 3 wonderful boys that will probably turn into some sort of criminal/terrorist to support the 4 extra girls, the 3 existing girls and the mother and father that couldn't afford the 3 existing girls to begin with. No worries on the girls, tho, they will be married off at age 13 and probably killed by 17 through some sort of revenge killing for bringing shame to their family (um, like driving or being seen with a male other than their immediate family). Funny, probably those boys will end up killing their own sisters if they all live that long. ?? I could be totally wrong, and I hope I am, but I'm with George Carlin as well. Duggers = diaper sniffing, mormon wannabies taking up alot of space.
{"commentId":2598835,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"marbearz"}
#35 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:37 PM EDT{"commentId":2598848,"authorDomain":"adonald104"}
Seriously for those that want to send "donations to Egypt", do you really think an Egyptian reading one of the many sad stories this country has produced will send "donations to the USA"? No way! There are enough poor children in this country that need donations, and dont have parents to plead for them. These babies were conceived and born purposefully. They now need to purposefully raise their own children. Too many women in America cannot afford fertility drugs but CAN afford children but must spend life without what they want the most. This couple and their physician made the WRONG decision. My goodness even the country of Egypt couldnt afford to take care of these kids from birth. Why give fertility drugs if you cant afford the medical equipment to have the babies survive and the parents are too poor to even care for themselves?
{"commentId":2598848,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"adonald104"}
#36 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:38 PM EDT{"commentId":2598912,"authorDomain":"a4mervlygurl"}
Egypt needs to start valuing women. Laws need to allow wives and daughters (not the man's brothers) to inherit the full estate. Until the culture starts valueing women, the parents are going to keep striving for sons.
And that overzealous fertility doctor who gave a whole bunch of shots needs a good kick where it counts! His overenthusiasm just destroyed a family that is already living in a mud hut! They will probably be begging for food soon. Shame on him!
{"commentId":2598912,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"a4mervlygurl"}
#37 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:44 PM EDT{"commentId":2598928,"authorDomain":"numberchick101"}
Perhaps they just need to change the inheritance laws so girls can inherit all just as a son. Then maybe there would be less pressure to have a son.
The use/reliance on fertility drugs is way overdone.
{"commentId":2598928,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"numberchick101"}
- 1 vote
#38 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:45 PM EDT{"commentId":2599064,"authorDomain":"beautifulbaldwin"}
Penny, before you petition the United States to help this one particular family, maybe you should take a look at the global fertility rate. The populations of the world's poorest nations are rapidly growing. First, how do you decide who to help? Second, don't you think these people are getting the wrong message that what they are doing is okay, and that someone will always be there to help them? Why is it okay to basically kill your family just for the chance of birthing a son? Maybe in this particular case, just perhaps, the family was not aware of the possible devastation fertility drugs could bring to their family. I believe that above everything else, the medical community in those regions needs to be held accountable for allowing use of these drugs. I think it's funny that you say the U.S. should help these families because you can't afford to. Where do you think the United States gets its funding? Do you support a major tax increase to help entire cultures that won't even help themselves?
{"commentId":2599064,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"beautifulbaldwin"}
#39 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:55 PM EDT{"commentId":2599235,"authorDomain":"jmbtaylor"}
I'm not so sure fertility drugs and in-vitro fertilization ought to be options for anyone. Maybe not being able to get pregnant is natures way of keeping mankind the fittest it can be. We have friends that have been "helped" in having kids. Four kids and everyone has some kind of major problem. Their parents love each of them but what happens when the parents won't be able to take care of them any longer?? The parents had genetic counseling after the second one and took the chance again and again. This certainly is fair to no one, particularly the kids they produced.
{"commentId":2599235,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"jmbtaylor"}
#40 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:09 PM EDT{"commentId":2599749,"authorDomain":"txchick"}
As someone who can't have children at all I find your comment appaling. Did you know in America in most places IVF is not covered by insurance? Its completley paid for out of pocket. I've seen many go bankrupt. You would not think it shouldn't be available if you were the one who could not have children. BELIEVE ME!!!! Now, this couple is a different situation. I don't think fertility drugs should be used of a family to add another child of a certain sex after having three. Its an insult to me who has tried for 6 years to have on naturally. Not being able to have a child does not make me weak or lesser of a person, but in the way you see it apparently it does. With this stated there is no fertility doctor in America who sees having any more than twins as a success. The risk is too high. Ideally they want you to have one or two. More than that is odviously a great risk. Your friends situation is unique as most I have seen have healthy babies. The risk odviously goes up the more you have at one time.
{"commentId":2599749,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"txchick"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2600271,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
Not being able to have a child does not make me weak or lesser of a person
No, but insisting that you can only be a parent if the child shares your genes does. I am also of the belief that until there are no more unwanted children in our country... or any other, for that matter... fertility drugs should not be used ANYWHERE.
Do not try to fool yourself for one moment that your desire to have a child is anything but a selfish want. If parenting a child is what you want to do, you can do that without bringing another soul onto this overburdened planet.
{"commentId":2600271,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2599728,"authorDomain":"dfhakes"}
Why are we so worried about Egypt? We have the same situation in the United States. Reckless use of fertility drugs, refusal to selectivly terminate for religious reasons, and parents with their hands out before the kids are born. If you can't conceive naturally, isn't that a sign that your DNA sucks? Every one of the seven McFreaks in Iowa have health problems. Jon & Kate's six are the rare exception - they appear normal and healthy. I remember one family that had six and every one of the kids had cerebral palsy.
{"commentId":2599728,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"dfhakes"}
#41 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:45 PM EDT{"commentId":2599799,"authorDomain":"txchick"}
RECKLESS USE!!! Do you understand what its like to be told you can't have children??? So.. my DNA sucks because I can't have kids??? Do you even KNOW what causes infertility???
{"commentId":2599799,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"txchick"}
- 1 vote
#42 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:50 PM EDT{"commentId":2624889,"authorDomain":"mary-esper"}
I dont know what it is like to not have children. I do know what it is like to be adopted.
{"commentId":2624889,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"mary-esper"}
{"commentId":2599826,"authorDomain":"txchick"}
Just wanted to add... You have SEVEN children at one time chances are you will have health problems. As a personal choice I would selectivly reduce. Would I tell someone? NO!! I want one healthy child. The doctors make advances daily on trying to reduce chances of having a HUGE number of babies at one time. These people put ALL the embryos in at one time.
{"commentId":2599826,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"txchick"}
- 1 vote
#43 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:52 PM EDT{"commentId":2600190,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
txgirl, I am very sorry that you have a fertility problem. Bus is your ability to love and care for a child limited to only children you share DNA with? If that is the case, perhaps you should rethink the entire parenting thing.
There are THOUSANDS of children right in your own backyard that are already here... and through no fault of their own, are without homes, parents, love. If your goal is to be a parent, who better than one of these? Sounds to me as if your goal is not to parent but to procreate.. and that IS a selfish desire.
{"commentId":2600190,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2599922,"authorDomain":"rheanan"}
Actually, txgirl, they did not have any embryos implanted; the woman was given hormone shots and then told to attempt conception without first performing any tests to determine just how many eggs had been released. The "reckless use of fertility drugs" that was previously mentioned most likely refers to incidents like this, where drugs are administered to a woman who clearly has no need and too few precautions are taken to ensure a normal pregnancy.
The person truly at fault in this case is the doctor who warned her that every fetus could be lost if she attempted to selectively reduce when evidence shows that this is a huge improbability, nearing impossibility.
{"commentId":2599922,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"rheanan"}
- 4 votes
#44 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:00 PM EDT{"commentId":2599964,"authorDomain":"nwkent25"}
Giving birth to litters of children is gross anyways-- we're not cats or dogs--but for a very poor couple with 3 children that they already couldn't afford to be injected with hormones to produce even just ONE more child, let alone seven is a medical travesty!
{"commentId":2599964,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"nwkent25"}
#45 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:04 PM EDT{"commentId":2600044,"authorDomain":"kimmyane"}
I can not have children because of PCOS and my DNA does not suck. I do agree with you about the reckless use of fertility drugs in this country and elsewhere. I have been trying to conceive for several years now and my doctors have refused to give me fertility treatments because they think I'm too young. Then I read stories like this and the other ones here in the USA and it really ticks me off. Why are doctors giving women with two or more children fertility drugs? It is reckless and it's stupid. They should be grateful for what they have.
By the way I am 28 years old.
{"commentId":2600044,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"kimmyane"}
#46 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:12 PM EDT{"commentId":2600205,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
Can you not adopt?
{"commentId":2600205,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2600320,"authorDomain":"kimmyane"}
Yes, were working on that now. However, it costs $20 - 30 thousand dollars to adopt an infant in the United States. Prior, to even making it on a waiting list we have to go through counseling and home studies.
Once we finish up with the home studies, were going to check into fostering a child.
{"commentId":2600320,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"kimmyane"}
{"commentId":2600350,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
My best wishes to you :-) I am sure you are aware that adopting an older child is cheaper and less time consuming. But the choice, as always, is up to the one adopting.
{"commentId":2600350,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2600367,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
I was fostered and then adopted. God bless my parents. :-) They certainly could not have afforded a 20K dollar baby. lol But they got me as a 4 year old.
{"commentId":2600367,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2600524,"authorDomain":"gemmeri"}
Regarding infertility due to diagnosed PCOS - I was classed as infertile due to this condition & I took female glandular supports for a while & ended up with my son Reise now 7. The premise behind this type of homeopathic treatment is that the natural, raw, healthy, freeze-dried glandular tissue from organic sources helps diseased or unhealthy tissue because like tissues migrate to each other - Ovarian tissue goes to ovaries, uterine to uterus, etc. Science knows this is true, even if they don't know why exactly. Chinese have been using homeopathic treatments for centuries with success. Female reproductive organs also are affected by other glands like thyroid, pituitary, hypothalamus, etc. I took an all-over female glandular supplement in capsule form. Check out your local health-food store for ideas or check out Internet. Research first & ask your doctor before you try anything. your doctor may scoff at supplement usage, mine did, but I tried it anyway & look what happened!
{"commentId":2600524,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"gemmeri"}
{"commentId":2601097,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
I was classed as infertile due to this condition & I took female glandular supports for a while & ended up with my son Reise now 7.
Congrats! :-) I hope your story is able to give others hope.
{"commentId":2601097,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2604563,"authorDomain":"fallun"}
While I'm sure we're all thrilled and delighted that however many years ago your parents could afford to adopt you, with time adoption has become a lot more expensive all over the world.
My aunt lives in the UK, and after years of infertility she and her husband spent ~$30,000 jumping through hoops and background checks to foster and then adopt 6-year-old twins with behavioural problems. Never mind all of the money they spent visiting the kids beforehand, and on having to buy everything from scratch for them (they're the youngest amongst children of both parents' siblings and friends by almost 10 years, and no one had any children's toys or clothes any longer to hand down), the beginning paperwork for two previous adoptions that fell through because the child's parents/guardians changed their mind... and not getting in to the prevailing opinion amongst the media and a good portion of society that someone's "real" parents are those who gave birth to them and gave them up or abandoned them, not the parent(s) who raised them and cared for them and suffered through raising teenagers.
So no, adoption and adopting older children are not always cheaper, and certainly not easier. Not in the least. And my aunt and uncle certainly wouldn't have been able to afford it if they both hadn't had *very* well-paying jobs.
{"commentId":2604563,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"fallun"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2600227,"authorDomain":"txchick"}
Its selfish of me to WANT my OWN child with my husband with whom I have been married to for SIX years???? How IN THE HELL is that selfish????
{"commentId":2600227,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"txchick"}
#47 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:27 PM EDT{"commentId":2600300,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
Yes, it is. And there is nothing wrong with being selfish as long as you at least recognize what you are doing.
Selfish by definition means that it is something that will be a benefit only to you. And wanting to pass along your own DNA qualifies.
{"commentId":2600300,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2600239,"authorDomain":"txchick"}
Ever checked out the cost of adoption??? Try 20,000. Same price as fertility drugs. In the end it boils down to money. That too, is a fact of life.
{"commentId":2600239,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"txchick"}
- 1 vote
#48 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:28 PM EDT{"commentId":2600317,"authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
Ever checked the cost of foster care and then adoption? Free. If you only want to "pay" for a baby, yes.. 20K is about right. But if you want to parent a child, you can do so without paying for it.
{"commentId":2600317,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"cjeralds0"}
{"commentId":2600244,"authorDomain":"jgoodwin002"}
I pity these poor children and the lives that they will have to look forward to. Three kids already living in a mud hut, now let's add seven more babies to the mix. Now the brilliant mother is pleading for help to raise children that they had no right to bring into this world. What has happened to the sensibility that you should be able to provide, BEFORE having 7 babies. This doctor that allowed this to happen should not be allowed to practice medicine in any country! They wanted a boy, they should be allowed to keep one of the boys and the remaining 6 should be put up for adoption so they have a chance for a good life. This is truly a disgrace.
{"commentId":2600244,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"jgoodwin002"}
- 1 vote
#49 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:28 PM EDT{"commentId":2600398,"authorDomain":"gemmeri"}
Lots of different things can cause infertility. I don't think less of people who don't have children for whatever reason. I don't understand the couple in this article, though. Obviously, Egypt has some cultural issues that encourage this type of behavior, but I don't understand why a woman would want to have more children when she can't even support the original 3 she has. A 2 room mud hut? Father has only part-time & sporadic work? Did she really think having all those babies would save them financially somehow? I understand the pressure to have a boy - it is still alive & well in the U.S. Some men really want a son or sons, but 4 at once? Along with 3 girls? Maybe Egypt's medical force needs to re-evaluate the dose of hormones they're dishing out. It would be even better if Egypt would re-structure their laws regarding gender... but I wouldn't hold my breath. Is it going to be better for this family if in the end some of these kids die because they are under-fed, impoverished with lack of medical care, etc.? Or was she hoping for automatic assistance from various charitable causes? It seems to me that counting on outside financial assistance to support one's family & offspring shows a lack of character & concern for the impact on others. Egypt is over-populated - what can these kids look forward to? I think those of you who want to give to others in need are trying to do a good thing, but you have needy people right here at home who didn't go out, get hormone shots they couldn't afford in the first place to have a litter of kids they couldn't afford in their present circumstances & can't provide for without outside assistance. All because they wanted a boy-child, so what happens to all those little girls? If they are so broke, why didn't the money they used for medical treatment go to improve their lot in life? This couple has burdened the people around them to fulfill their own selfish desires, not needs, but desires. They want anyone who will to pay their way & I guess I have a problem with that. The real criminal here is the doctor who administered the hormones, shame on you - you just added to your own country's over-population & ever increasing economic problems. No medical ethics there, you put the mother at risk, the babes at risk, your people at risk - which makes about as much sense as your inheritance policies.
{"commentId":2600398,"threadId":"340485","contentId":"1788480","authorDomain":"gemmeri"}
#50 - Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:43 PM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"340485","isPrivate":false}
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