Factory had tension between union, immigrants

# This is not a union issue. This is an issue of illegal aliens displacing American citizens from jobs in their hometown.
# The arrested individuals are not "immigrants" - they are undocumented illegal aliens in violation of the law.

I have to agree with both points. And-- isn't it interesting the spin they put on the story..i.e. callling them "immigrants"...!

What I find more 'interesting' is the 'excuse' given by Howard Ind. - "runs every check allowed to ascertain the immigration status of all applicants for its jobs. It is company policy that it hires only U.S. citizens and legal immigrants."

And this, boys and girls, is where the journey to a solution begins.

The company policy may be to hire only US citizens and legal immigrants, but if the process to tell what status these people are fails, then change THAT @!$%#ing process.

"It hurts the community," he said, because the town will lose 600 people who frequented stores like Wal-Mart and paid sales taxes.

And then there is this. Poor Wal-Mart... multi-billion dollar conglomerate might have to tighten the belt a notch for a month or two. Yeah they paid sales taxes, which pale to federal and state taxes, medicare and social security. But, it goes back to the underlying point of the root of most of this issue - money.

Amnesty might be an option, but people have to learn to play by the rules.

If you think the U.S. has harsh immigration laws, try Germany or Australia. There are others. Some countries detain you for two years or more...and then deport you.

I've published several illustrated articles at Newsvine on this issue. This is the latest one:

'One in Twenty-Five U.S. Residents is an Illegal Alien'

let them move to mexico, let them hang out with the drug dealers and what have you. thats better than bringing those crooks in.

Then when its made in mexico, he has to bring it all in from the border, pay taxes, pay freights, etc.

Compared to the relative few illegals and/or legal immigrants dealing in drugs, the ones who come here illegally and drain other resources(ie healthcare, schools, welfare) far outstrip the resources used in the so called 'war on drugs"

Ironically, it is the illegals that come here to make an honest buck who are the biggest drain to the American taxpayer.

Smiley, the point of this site is to discuss differences of opinion and try to produce some clarity of the issues of the day. Go2Guy is acting on emotion and painting with a very broad brush, that seems clear enough. You shouldn't let him get the best of you. You step equally over the line when you start making assumptions about people and insulting their mothers.

Remove emotion and the fact remains that vigilent enforcement of our immigration laws is far overdue. I would be interested to hear what you have to say on that matter.

MrSmiley,

Please adhere to the CoH. Your comment has been reported.

L8RG8R,

Please adhere to the CoH. Your comment has been reported.

i hold a masters degree and im worried about loosing my job because of illegal immigration.

how?

Immigration is driving the need for bilingual education. school districts are increasingly going to spanish speaking countries to fill this need. American monolingual teachers are bing displaced and soon, if this continues there will be lay-offs for teachers who dont speak spanish.

first it was the factory worker and contractor loosing his/her job, now its the teachers, next it will be YOUR job.

I'm not sure how you blame that on illegal immigration. Legal immigration, global trade, and a bunch of other reasons would cause the same new skill requirements. As a professional, I have to learn new skills all the time - if you have a masters, I'm sure you're capable of the same. Yep, these illegal immigrants are going to displace an American teacher with a masters degree - not.

And, you have a masters, but you don't know the difference between "loosing" and "losing?" You did that twice, so I don't think it was a typo.

I don't @!$%# when a new computer language comes out. I learn it. Our State Department and other folks don't @!$%# now that they have to learn Arabic and Chinese instead of Russian.

first it was the factory worker and contractor loosing his/her job, now its the teachers, next it will be YOUR job.

A little melodramatic. I'm against illegal immigration but this is just not believable.

Melodramatic, unless you have a job in the hospitality, landscaping, or construction industries. Then it is a very relative issue to you. Try living in a neighborhood that has been invaded....you won't recognize it after a year.

sibuor implied that he/she is a teacher with a masters. So yes, it is melodramatic. I didn't say that was the case in other industries. And I still don't see how someone with a masters can't tell the difference between "loosing" and "losing," yet can blame immigration if he/she can't keep their teaching job.

My Bad.

Walls and fences DO NOT work. It's been tried before. The Berlin Wall, double-barbed wire fences with machine guns, lights, and dogs around Rumania, Bulgaria, etc. People still find ways to get through if they are dedicated enough.

My best solution is the article I posted above. I don't mind posting the link for two reasons. First, I think the issue is important. Second...it's an AP article, anyway.

katrix,
in my case, the demand for bilingual teachers is not driven by global trade but by illegal immigration. In my school district, 70% of students are hispanic, with over half of them being illegal. the school district is forced to hire spanish foreigners to meet this demand. these teachers take jobs that would have otherwise gone to american teachers

therefore, americans loose jobs to foreigners. all this driven by illegals

hope thats not too hard to for you to understand

You and millions more!!! Trust me. What has taken ICE so long???? They have waited until the illegals have quietly become a nation within OUR nation... There will be a reckoning and much grief just ask Sargent Juanita Shaw, whose teenage son was shot down in the streets of Los Angeles CA at the hands of illegal Mexican killers. unfortunately because of our Governments long delay in finally making an attempt to get some control of the illegals who have been told by someone that they have all the rights of REAL AMERICANS born of LEGAL PARENTS.

The corporations always want more money from cheap labor, and you can do nothing with that - that's called "globalization". But the idea to buy the only things made in the USA to support our labor force seems to be reasonable, the only issue – it's not easy to find them those days. By the way, links here don't work, so you should put it in more sophisticated manner.

Links here do work, once you're a member of the NV community. Stick around for a while, don't be rude, and you'll be able to post links and we'll be happy to welcome you!

I just want these people to hear it as well.. cause turning off the flood gates won solve the problem. Unless you are a farm worker the factory will simply move to a place where the labor is cheap.
they'll do the same as we tighten our emission laws as well.. it is something we will have to address to stem the tide of jobs going away.. weather that is actualize improving education so les people need jobs with low educational requirements.. or using taxees to encoruage companeis to stay here.. to invest in the usa
or rather tax breaks.. :)
but rgiht now they all avoid taxes.. which is fine.. as long as they are being productive american businesses.. when they start to invest jobs and resources overseas I question how we let them get away without payign taxes while hurting this country.

Every biz should be able to weasle out of taxes.. if they contribute a certain amount and invest a certain percentage in america.. if that's reducing emissions, makign more jobs.. putting all their employees on healthcare... w/e

It's very unfair.

"At least eight of the workers caught in the raid face criminal charges for allegedly using false Social Security and residency identification."

And I'll bet there are a lot more. It's unfair to those citizens who have their identities used in a fraudulent manner by criminals. It's unfair that it isn't better enforced.

A woman on another thread said that her husband is illegal, but that he pays taxes and is a kind person. I asked her, if he pays taxes but is illegal, whose SSN is he using? Because he sure as heck doesn't have his own.

He may be using a Taxpayer's Identification Number. It wouldn't be on a SSN card but you don't have to show an SSN card to prove work authorization. That's just one possiblity. Learn more about employment law, katrix.

Thank La Raza and other groups that have convinced the illegals that its o.k. And the sanctuary city status just puts the icing on the cake. Illegals have quietly taken over the country in politics and economy. They are calling the shots now. It was fun friends. They are the power now. Both candidates encourage amnesty. What does that say to the illegal immigrant? Sneak in and wait for the all clear horn. Makes me sick. Poor folks who played by the rules to enter and get citizenship. We have been had.

If you're illegal, don't stand next to Dannie or you might take a Louisville Sluuger upside the cranium... lol.

LMAO

Naftel funny ha ha ha

I'm just tired as many of us are of many illegal coming over here and getting help with everything from free rent to free breakfast and lunches at school for their kids and we the tax payers are paying for it. plus you know what a Louisville slugger cost I'll just get a big brach off my tree in the backyard and or just turn my german shepherds lose on them, they need new chew toy anyway.

You're preaching to the chior Dannie. Ironically, the Lousiville Slugger would probably have been made by illegals anyway.

Agreed!

And we'll spend fewer tax dollars on illegals, and have less identity fraud. Seems like it might balance out. And nobody is talking about removing all immigrants. We are talking about illegals here. Big difference. I support immigrants - my ancestors were immigrants. I'm currently working with a Latino woman who wants to start a business, to turn her on to all the things the SBA can do for her, and to hook her up with other valuable resources. Good for her. But she is here legally.

A lot of big companies have already moved jobs to Mexico, and the illegals keep coming here. Of course not too many of them do accounting, or engineering, or anything that requires a little brain power.

Sandjockey, I understand your point but, even though I understand, the reality is that for us (Americans) to survive as anything beside slaves in this global economy we are going to have to figure this out pretty quick. The sad fact remains that the upper management of many of these companies are making obscene salaries/incentives by cutting out the American workman to do it. They achieve their greedy goals through hiring the illegal workers or off shoring our jobs, forcing no full time schedules to avoid having to provide health insurance and in the case of corporations like Wal-Mart, forcing their employees to seek social services to survive, all at the expense of the American taxpayer. Government isn't guiltless in this situation by a long shot. Beside all the alleged corruption and special interest follies we hear about on nearly a daily basis, we also must deal with unbelievably inept and totally inefficient operation of the very government systems we depended on to safeguard much of our American Way of Life. Think of China at Christmas time and the toys we were supposed to give our children. American manufacturing couldn't compete with all the safety standards they must follow here but the Chinese just ignored their responsibility and manufactured dangerous products. This is where our systems have failed us in some respects by making it harder here in our country to be in compliance with our laws than nearly any other country on earth. Add to the fiasco, cheaper labor, labor based on people who only know living conditions that Americans progressed beyond a century ago, and you can see why our fat cat big business leaders have gone globe hopping with our jobs. NO, I want neither additional government nor do I expect they are to provide for me from the cradle to the grave; I just want a fair shot at be able to survive again. My industry; as one of the others pointed out; construction has been nearly destroyed by the illegal alien workers. This I know intimately from having my whole livelihood taken away and now face losing everything I have worked my whole life for, Oh well, I'm just another statistic in an economy run by greed and giving what were once my dreams to our global neighbors.

G2G,

Sadly we (America) will never be able to compete with the 3rd World Countries in terms of reverse salary parity. If the standard of living is such that the American laborer is requiring 20 times more pay for the same job then the result is automatic. The job will go overseas. That is capitalism at its finest and there is little we can do about it.

Yes, "Joe Manager" or "Joe CEO" make what some would call ridiculous pay but again that is capitalism. How do we fix it? I believe we go back to small business, not large conglomerates. I believe we go back to employee owned business, I believe that in many instances we have to eliminate the role unions have played (many unions have overstayed their need).

However, that isn't all that is needed. Sadly many of our workforce believes that they are entitled. Entitled to the high pay, entitled to great benefits, entitled to a job. They aren't. All that has to be earned and unless we can change the work ethic in this country then we have even bigger problems ahead.

After all, isn't it now almost easier to sit at home drawing unemployment than to seek out a paying job?

SJ

Sandjockey has hit the nail on the head.
You can't have it both ways...companies are expected to make profit. To do so they have to compete against other companies. Americans en masse are not willing to pay higher prices for comparable goods. I don't care how many people we get here saying "Well, I'll buy American!", you are a small drop in the ocean. And using big statements like "I'm not buying blah because they ship jobs overseas", etc. typically comes from people who haven't been put into a situation where they HAVE to buy the said "blah".
So people want low prices for products, company has to make profit. I don't fault the company for going down this route...sure, government agencies failed. Try explaining that to your shareholders. "Sorry, guys, we are being undercut and nobody can protect us, so...well, it's been a good run" does not fly in business world.

Also, and this seems to be going over a lot of people's heads...
NOONE IS ENTITLED TO A JOB.

Like the teacher with masters above, crying about how the monolingual teachers are on their way out. Hmm...here's an idea: adapt to the changing world and learn new language.
I'm a software designer. When new language comes out and my company expects me to use it do I go crying to my boss about it? No, I learn the new language.

The essence of capitalism is "win at all costs", in case that hasn't sunk in yet. Companies know it and they WILL ship your job overseas if it produces profit, even short term one.
The happy happy joy joy "get a job for life" years are over.

Edit: Doh, SJ beat me to it.
One thing I have to add, though. You can't have capitalism without big business. In order to mass produce ANYTHING you have to have a big shop setup. Hand-built cars, anyone?

I think this is worth another article - written by someone who knows more than I do about it. But the whole topic of unions is interesting. Certain industries still definitely need unions - coal miners being at the top of the list. Other industries are harmed by them. The auto industry is one. Every business has to make a profit, or it will fold, and its employees will have no jobs. The auto industry can't afford the benefits and pensions the unions made them promise. The Federal government is another case - Federal civil career employees need to be protected against political backlash, but is a union the right way to do this these days, when it keeps badly performing employees from being fired? The whole union concept of rewarding "length of employment" instead of "merit" sucks to begin with, both in private industry and government. It encourages the mediocre employees and discourages the good ones. It's like a bell curve for employment.

How do we decide which industries do or don't need unions? How do we keep the union demands for fair wages and benefits from killing the companies, and how do we keep the companies who can afford to provide good benefits from screwing their employees? How do we encourage good people, and get rid of the worst ones?

As you can probably guess, I am not a union supporter. Never have been and doubt I ever will be. As katrix mentions, unions have outlived their purpose in many industries. From the automotive industry on down unions started off with a great premise, help the worker gain equal rights for their efforts within an industry. Sadly those "equal rights" turned into millstones around many company necks and we, the consumer, end up paying to lighten the union load. But wait, the union employees are also consumers so now the union has to fight to raise their salaries and benefits which causes, in an ever vicious spiral, an increase in prices leading to another increase in wages and benefits and so on and so forth.

I am a small business owner who tries to pay living wages to all his employees and who also firmly believes in incentives as a way to augment an employees pay. Those who deliver based on mutually agreed upon targets can more than double their pay. Those that don't, for any number of reasons, get their basic pay. Guess what. Unions do not like this system and fight to end it. Why?

By creating a system, as most unions do, that mediocrity is paid just as well as excellence, you end up promoting mediocrity which, sadly, becomes the "new" excellence. Sad but true...just look at our school systems today.

SJ