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PrintPelosi gets unwanted lesson in Catholic theology
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:12 AM EDT
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Politics can be treacherous. But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi walked on even riskier ground in a recent TV interview when she attempted a theological defense of her support for abortion rights.
Roman Catholic bishops consider her arguments on St. Augustine and free will so far out of line with church teaching that they have issued a steady stream of statements to correct her.
The latest came Wednesday from Pittsburgh Bishop David Zubik, who said Pelosi, D-Calif., "stepped out of her political role and completely misrepresented the teaching of the Catholic Church in regard to abortion."
It has been a harsh week of rebuke for the Democratic congresswoman, a Catholic school graduate who repeatedly has expressed pride in and love for her religious heritage.
Cardinals and archbishops in Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, New York and Denver are among those who have criticized her remarks. Archbishop George Niederauer, in Pelosi's hometown of San Francisco, will take up the issue in the Sept. 5 edition of the archdiocesan newspaper, his spokesman said.
Sunday, on NBC's "Meet the Press" program, Pelosi said "doctors of the church" have not been able to define when life begins.
She also cited the role of individual conscience. "God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions," she said.
Brendan Daly, a spokesman for Pelosi, said in a statement defending her remarks that she "fully appreciates the sanctity of family" and based her views on conception on the "views of Saint Augustine, who said, 'The law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.'"
But whether or not parishioners choose to accept it, the theology on the procedure is clear. From its earliest days, Christianity has considered abortion evil.
"This teaching has remained unchanged and remains unchangeable," according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. "Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law."
The Rev. Douglas Milewski, a Seton Hall University theologian who specializes in Augustine, said Pelosi seems to be confusing church teaching on abortion with the theological debate over when a fetus receives a soul.
"Saint Augustine wondered about the stages of human development before birth, how this related to the question of ensoulment and what it meant for life in the Kingdom of God," Milewski said.
Questions about ensoulment related to determining penalties under church law for early and later abortions, not deciding whether the procedure is permissible, according to the U.S. Bishops' Committee on Pro-Life Activities.
Augustine was "quite clear on the immorality of abortion as evil violence, destructive of the very fabric of human bonds and society," Milewski said.
Regarding individual decision-making, the church teaches that Catholics are obliged to use their conscience in considering moral issues. However, that doesn't mean parishioners can pick and choose what to believe and still be in line with the church.
Lisa Sowle Cahill, a theologian at Boston College, said conscience must be formed by Catholic teaching and philosophical insights. "It's not just a personal opinion that you came up with randomly," she said.
Catholic theologians today overwhelmingly consider debate over the morality of abortion settled. Thinkers and activists who attempt to challenge the theology are often considered on the fringes of church life.
However, there is a rigorous debate over how the teaching should guide voters and public officials. Are Catholics required to choose the candidate who opposes abortion? Or can they back a politician based on his or her policies on reducing, not outlawing, the procedure?
The U.S. bishops addressed this question in their election-year public policy guide, "Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship."
They said that voting for a candidate specifically because he or she supports "an intrinsic evil" such as abortion amounts to "formal cooperation in grave evil."
In some cases, Catholics may vote for a candidate with a position contrary to church teaching, but only for "truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences," according to the document.
It is a complex discussion. The Rev. Thomas Reese, senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University, has some advice for candidates who seek to join the debate: Stick to politics — and support programs that truly help reduce the number of abortions.
"It is a big mistake," Reese said, "for politicians to talk theology."
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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{"commentId":2617923,"authorDomain":"ralphkimball47"}
pelosi & the dnc are out of touch with most of the nation. abortion is just one of the issues.
the majority of the country is still conservative.
west coast values are ok for pelosi's district but not for the whole country.
when will the dnc wake up & ask what the majority wants?
if they ignore the majority then it looks like a bush third term will be a shoo in.
{"commentId":2617923,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"ralphkimball47"}
#1 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:53 AM EDT{"commentId":2618397,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}
the majority of the country is still conservative.
Do you have data to support that statement?
{"commentId":2618397,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
{"commentId":2618401,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
"God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions,"
The Catholic church professes. people do not have free will. They must follow the Vatican or go to hell.
{"commentId":2618401,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2618676,"authorDomain":"lpwillham"}
Being a man, I have always felt I had absolutely no right to have a position on this issue of Aborthion.
So I will only talk to it as it relates to this election. Pelosi's statements could very well diminish the selection of Biden as VP as I think I read that it was made public that he would not be welcome at some Catholic churchs to recieve communion.
Depending on who McCain picks, probably a pro life, I'm guessing, this will be a debate issue. We know its an issue with the Evangelicals many of whom are 1 issue voters anyway, but if Catholics feel Biden is not in step he could loose many Older Catholics that are key in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania who might have voted for Obama because Biden was VP.
This could cost Obama some key swing states.
It will be interesting to see how much traction this issue gains between now and November.
{"commentId":2618676,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"lpwillham"}
{"commentId":2619430,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
No Mcgovern repeat 08,...You're right to point out this danger. Luckily he has the studied position of JFK to fall back on. The church if it chooses to lock him out will be shown as unforgiving and judgemental.
{"commentId":2619430,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2618132,"authorDomain":"csaw6988"}
They are so out of touch with this issue and stem cell research also, saying the only new aborted babies' stems are the solution. Pelosi and other completely ignore the research in all the other areas, using the argument of stem cell research to further abortion rights!
I personally don't care what someone else does or does not do with her body, just don't force your opinion on me.
There is something bad though about 3rd trimester abortion, but I defer that to the doctor and parents.
{"commentId":2618132,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"csaw6988"}
#2 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:57 AM EDT{"commentId":2618415,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
...just don't force your opinion on me.
That's the number. We really with the diversity of faiths and ethics may not force our churches opinion on everyone else.
{"commentId":2618415,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2618684,"authorDomain":"ralphkimball47"}
i don't think this is about forcing the church on everyone. this is about misinformation pelosi is spewing out. she stated that god has given us free will & responsibility to answer for our actions. not true. those that have heard the word & continue to do wrong will be judged more harshly than those that have not heard the word. pelosi has heard the word. pelosi has added west coast values into the mix.
{"commentId":2618684,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"ralphkimball47"}
{"commentId":2619229,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}
those that have heard the word & continue to do wrong will be judged more harshly than those that have not heard the word.
That's between them and God, not the government.
{"commentId":2619229,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
{"commentId":2619480,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
Jesus knew all things. He knew my sins. I cannot commit a sin he did not already die for. As long as I live my life as best I can and do good works as often as I can afford. God will forgive me. In case there is no large guy with a beard watching me all the time, I'll do just fine becoming part of recycling.
{"commentId":2619480,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2618312,"authorDomain":"inglett9"}
Abortion is just one of the issues that the majority oppose. The courts, since Roe vs Wade, seem to want to leave these issues to the States. The States attempt to enact laws forbidding abortion, same sex marriage, allowing school prayer, then the federal judges rule those laws unconstitutional. The Supreme Court needs to address these issues and rule that there be a national vote to decide these issues once and for all without political or judicial intervention. Mass. legislature wants to allow same sex marriage while not having a state wide vote by the people and who knows what Calif. wants. When you listen to Pelosi and Arnold, supposedly political opposites, you begin to see that the liberal influence transcends party lines. In the future our Nation may be a melting pot for deviates and cults due to the liberalism in the courts and our federal government.
{"commentId":2618312,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"inglett9"}
- 1 vote
#3 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:33 AM EDT{"commentId":2618594,"authorDomain":"ralphkimball47"}
your right. pelosi wants to legalize gay marriages in all 50 states. she is blocking offshore drilling while putting her green agenda first. she is working with libs to have in god we trust off the monuments & currency. she is way out there on other issues. it's not just about abortion.
{"commentId":2618594,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"ralphkimball47"}
{"commentId":2619537,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
McCain wants to do away with the poor they are a drag on the economy. He wants to build a nuclear plant 30 feet from your house. He will pass a law that will make women answer to their men and to follow any of his whims. Or I could be a Democratic troll.
{"commentId":2619537,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
{"commentId":2618428,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
In the future our Nation may be a melting pot for deviates and cults due to the liberalism in the courts and our federal government
It already is.
{"commentId":2618428,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 2 votes
#4 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:52 AM EDT{"commentId":2619243,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}
As it was intended to be, a melting pot of cultures.
{"commentId":2619243,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
{"commentId":2619556,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
How about a nation of straight-jacketed people with electronic conditioning collars. Do away with anything funny.
{"commentId":2619556,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2618536,"authorDomain":"mostlyhana"}
All one has to remember is that Pelosi represents extremely liberal San Francisco which is a city that has an inefficient city government but is filled with apparently happy drug addicts on the streets, a sizable number of disgusting porn houses and a large number of sexual deviants who have no problem prancing around in the streets but, of course, are stunned when a majority of Americans find their behavior reprehensible.
{"commentId":2618536,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"mostlyhana"}
- 1 vote
#5 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:05 AM EDT{"commentId":2619571,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
Hanna,...You are exerting too much energy repressing your kinks.
{"commentId":2619571,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2620322,"authorDomain":"mostlyhana"}
Next time, please try to add something of substance to the discussion.
{"commentId":2620322,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"mostlyhana"}
{"commentId":2622676,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
Hana32,...May I ask you seriously how your remark #5 adds something of substance. It seems to me it is the worst kind of stereotyping and a willful righteousness that is striking but adds nothing but negativity.
{"commentId":2622676,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2623699,"authorDomain":"mostlyhana"}
Have you been to San Francisco? It's one of the worst run cities in America. Beautiful sites but poorly run. The streets are full of homeless, apparently mentally ill people, and the city is giving handouts. The city is controlled by a leftist voting block that includes radical homosexuals. It's not my fault Pelosi represents the city.
{"commentId":2623699,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"mostlyhana"}
{"commentId":2626568,"authorDomain":"jade-log"}
I have visited many times and lived there for one summer. I knew mostly married people and have a different view of the city. There are homeless but even veterans are among them. I do what I can to help. Yes there are mentally ill and they often refuse help. I know some gays and lesbians and they're perfectly nice couples. I don't give a whit what they do at night. That's their business. I know that Harvey Milk was involved with city government but he and the mayor were assassinated years ago. Killed by a macho dude who had evidently poisoned himself by eating too many Twinkies and driving himself into a murderous rage.
{"commentId":2626568,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jade-log"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2618629,"authorDomain":"rufor-real"}
politicians taking money from abortionist and then putting it off on women (like Pilate washed his hands) as it's your right, huh..i wonder if the dems would stand with the abortionist if they didn't give them money?
{"commentId":2618629,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"rufor-real"}
#6 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:16 AM EDT{"commentId":2618879,"authorDomain":"getrealman"}
yikes... well no surprise given the resounding job she is doing - kinda makes sense that she is winging it...
{"commentId":2618879,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"getrealman"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:40 AM EDT{"commentId":2621134,"authorDomain":"ergrama"}
no mothers like abortion except for child's heath as primary and mother's health as secondary. Even in cases of rape and incest, mothers prefer for adoption of her child to abortion. when peloski says about individual conscience, she means to include above considerations. catholic church's belief is no different from peloski's understanding unless catholic churces doctrines are interpreted otherwise for political reasons. many of catholic church doctrines have engenders family lives and affect security.safety/health for families. no mother likes abortion, even fathers are are more against it. bringing healthy children are better than bringing unhealthy children, who suffers more in their life time. therefore individual conscience should play part in such circumstances, which has more religious and spiritual meaning than the church doctrines.
{"commentId":2621134,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"ergrama"}
#8 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:57 PM EDT{"commentId":2621465,"authorDomain":"annoyed-373400"}
An unwanted lesson in Catholic theology......isn't that what you call an oxymoron?
{"commentId":2621465,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"annoyed-373400"}
#9 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:22 PM EDT{"commentId":2622645,"authorDomain":"bker1492"}
Ah democrats. Making up all kinds of bogus facts.
{"commentId":2622645,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"bker1492"}
#10 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:57 PM EDT{"commentId":2623356,"authorDomain":"edwarddanteze"}
It does not matter if you are a bible basher or an atheist, killing is WRONG!! no matter how you try to justify it. It is plain common sense, morally wrong!! These babies are living beings....
{"commentId":2623356,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"edwarddanteze"}
#11 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:49 PM EDT{"commentId":2624055,"authorDomain":"jdl-28"}
The Catholic church is way out of line, they have no right to tell us that women can not have a choice. What they believe in their religion is ok for them but not for this hold world, beside that how can they even call themselves a religion when they cover child abuse up for years. This is one church that should be close down, for they lie.
Every women should have the rights to have a abortion, no one has the right to decide what your life should be like. I do not see the people who states you can not have abortion taking the children to raise, just because you believe in some religion you have no rights to push your belief on to anyone else. Your want your freedom well allow other people to also have their, our government has no right to be in this either they are to run the country not a person personnel life.
You do goodies needs to get a life and stop stepping into someone else life, beside that it not your place to judge it is your God place.
This is the only thing I agree with Pelosi on, but I am sick of the religious nuts who think they must push their belief on other people. I hope they know when we die the only place we go is underground to decade.
{"commentId":2624055,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"jdl-28"}
- 1 vote
#12 - Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:43 PM EDT{"commentId":2658019,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}
My religion is my personal relationship with God. I don't see any reason to force my personal beliefs onto anyone else and I don't see why any church should be allowed to either. No church should be creating or even influencing public policy. If we allow churches to influence laws how much longer will it be before we go back to forcing people to attend services or to offer up animal sacrifices? Churches have the option to excommunicate members that don't conform to their "teachings" they shouldn't have the power to affect people of differing religions. The only way to assure freedom of religion is to also assure freedom from religion. Whenever I see a religion trying to influence policy I have to wonder how I would feel if it were some other religion other than mine. Ask yourself, how would you feel if it were Islam or a satanist sect trying to make laws for you.
{"commentId":2658019,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
{"commentId":2749100,"authorDomain":"rufor-real"}
you obviously don't know the history of this Country, or how and what our Governing principles were founded on.
placing limits on God...I want him in my life but not "MY Government" :)
I agree that we don't want an established government religion, after all that's why/how America came into being.
God is not a religion
{"commentId":2749100,"threadId":"341920","contentId":"1795156","authorDomain":"rufor-real"}
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