Palin says 17-year-old daughter is pregnant

Good job Jack. Love it when that happens!

I laughed when I read this. The Conservatives are going to enter into Head-Exploding mode trying to put a proper spin onto this.

"Well, she said she's going to marry the father. Guess you libs can't find anything good to talk about!"

"Well...Clinton had oral sex in the oval office. Stupid libs can't argue when this happens...you'd be hypocrites!"

"Stupid libs! You released 'Juno' as propaganda to get our teenagers pregnant!"

I have never seen a politician face so much criticism so soon after an announcement.

1. Palin faces the scandal involving the firing of a state trooper
2. The bridge to nowhere fiasco - She flip-flopped John Kerry style on that one
3. The mad rumors that Bristol is the mother of Sarah's special needs child
4. That she is being used as a pandering tool to invite Hillary supporters to vote Republican
5. This current story of her 17-year-old daughter pregnant, confirmed and substantiated.

I wouldn't be surprised if McCain asked her to step down. Either way it's going to be a public relations nightmare. Picking another running-mate spells doom for him this November (and the Democrats would have a field day with it) and keeping her in the running while she tries to talk about family values will meet the harshest criticism out there.

Whoops, Republicans. It's not looking well for you in November.

I wouldn't be surprised if McCain asked her to step down.

Shucks, this makes McGovern's choice of Tom Eagleton as his VP mate look positively sage.

I beat the A.P. by four minutes.

Dammit. That means I got scooped by thirteen minutes.

Whoops, Republicans. It's not looking well for you in November

Who cares?

I accepted a long time ago to have Obama for President.

When we were in a social private affair and this government employee asked us: Are you ready for the next President? And we replied Yes. He had a huge lapel button in his coat.

.

det1, do you mean this fellow had a huge "Obama" advertising button on his coat?

Determined: It's a shame that the young girl's private business had to become public. But it does cast serious question on her mother's commitment to "abstinence only" education, doesn't it? And her mother's policies are a legitimate area of concern if she's running for office. If Palin knew about this situation but didn't tell McCain when he approached her about a VP run, it also casts doubt on her integrity (remember John Edwards? The affair wasn't so bad, lying about it was bad). If she didn't know -- what kind of a mother doesn't realize her kid is 5 months gone?!?!

Anyway, good thing for her daughter, if not for the fiance, that Momma packs a shotgun.

She "came to us with the news" where were you, hunting moose?

It's a shame that these conservatives who walk on water, in fact, have feet of clay. We've been saying this for years and were ridiculed for it.

Now, since she is so "law and order" will the rapist be prosecuted?

I agree with trex, I believe Sarah should have turned the VP offer down, and tended to her family. Now she has humiliated her daughter and the WHOLE world now knows the young lady's personal business. I think this is really selfish on her mother's part.

some of you people need to get a life. Taking joy in the fact that someone's teen daughter is pregnant, and making fun of the situation. I wish them the best.

Since Sarah Palin's resume is so thin, her motherhood is a big part of her claim to be fit for office. Anything that illuminates Sarah's parenting skills is absolutely fair to report. A 17 year-old daughter being pregnant out of wedlock is a huge failure. At 17 the daughter is probably still living at home, so where was her mother? If she is 17 and no longer living at home, what was wrong with the mother-daughter relationship? If the father is going to marry this pregnant daughter, isn't sometime after the 5th month a bit long to wait? With Sarah Palin's views on contraception and her insistence on abstinence-only sex ed, she's a case study in those views don't work.

I think this is proof that John McCain picked her in a panic, shooting from the hip. You don't pander the the "family values" crowd by picking one of their failures to put in the public spotlight.

This story shows that Sarah Palin is not a fit choice, and is proof that John McCain's judgment is very doubtful.

And yet I can just hear the "concerned women" who will say lay off her during her family tragedy.

I laughed when I read this.

Thanks that gives us great valued insight into your character.

The rest of your post was total sh!t.

But it does cast serious question on her mother's commitment to "abstinence only" education, doesn't it?

To Trex,

Think about it.

The vast majority of young women who have out of wedlock pregnancies did have instruction on birth control, since its a part of the normal curriculum of public education.

It doesn't seem to be a great success, does it?

Poor jazzman646...heaven forbid I laugh at the irony of the situation when an abstinence advocate and anti-contraception advocate has a pregnant teenage daughter. If it were someone you weren't a fan of you'd be peeing your pants with laughter.

I'm not exactly sure why everything else in my post was "sh!t". I'm citing several key criticisms against your super-woman, not to mention the P.R. fiasco this is going to cause for the Republican party. I guess that's what you had to say when you couldn't offer anything of substance.

In response to your post 1.13...

Most schools are currently using Bush's (and Palin's) favorite abstinence only programs within high schools. Traditionally, 9th grade education (Family and Consumer Science) revolves around scare tactics of STDs and the slippery slope fallacy (You'll get pregnant, then you'll have to drop out of school, then you won't get a job, then you'll live poor for the rest of your life) to keep kids from having sex.

It truly is a rarity to find a school that supports safe-sex education. Therefore, your argument that it's part of the normal curriculum is flawed. Especially considering most states preach abstinence...not contraception.

det1, do you mean this fellow had a huge "Obama" advertising button on his coat?

Yes, he shouldn't use his political pin to a private affair, but well.....

She could try: "Parthenogenesis", or maybe "Look what I found in the bullrushes Mom!"

Det,

why should he not wear a political pin to a private event?

As an Obama voter, I find this effort to politicize this event appalling. Palin's daughter is pregnant. Hopefully, she'll have a healthy baby. What this has to do with anything is beyond me.

Please tell us you are kidding.

The fact of the pregnancy is not the issue, the holier than thou - "Ooops, life happens" attitude is the issue.

Emperor - I assume you posted that same comment when everyone went after Michelle Obama? Doubtful but surprise me and point me to the post.

...somebody, anybody, gimme a terrorist fist bump...

why should he not wear a political pin to a private event?

Because the attendants have different political points of view and that's what I call a provocation.

-attendees-

Because the attendants have different political points of view and that's what I call a provocation

If I follow that logic then should I (an atheist) take offense whenever I see a cross on a necklace, or a cross as a lapel pin? I can assure you, I don't. People have different beliefs and preferences, get over it.

It's do as we say, not as we do. It's the dirty masses must not breed without permission, and they have no right to impose morals on us because we are above them. It's the "Divine Right" of rule by a chosen select few mentality, attempting to raise it's ugly head all over again, and undo over two hundred years of scarifice of lives and work in the progress towards freedom for all. Nothing less then all America has achieved towards this goal is at stake in this election.

"Shake off all the fears and servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1787.

If you want someone to be elected to lead the most powerful Nation on earth, and NOT let the people "Who are the true sovereigns of this country" inquire and ascertain the degree of her veracity and quality of her character, you are either hiding something or you are beyond insane. Which is it?

If the daughter is pregnant at 17, what does this say for the way she was raised by her mother? Would this have an effect on the election? The jury is still out. I have made no commitment either way, democratic or republican.

no one is attacking the daughter. They are attacking the policies that her mother chose to use which failed and show that the policies are full of crap.

To Captain Obvious:
How about being MARRIED first, and then Pprocreate! Do not try tp spin this!!!
The GOP have always said they stood for "traditional family values." This is not traditional. You do not get knocked up and then get married. Traditional means you wait til marriage, THEN get knocked up!! Not get knocked up, and getting married. WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!!
I'm alright with her having the baby, and getting married,, if that is what they want!
What I am attacking is the hypocrisy of the GOP! They should all be angry about this. Palins family is starting to become a statistic! A statistic that Repubs did not want!
Palin should be an embarassment to the GOP! Good, Lord! No wonder Bush won twice! If McBush told you there was oil in swampland in Swahili, you'd jump on your lear jet so fast, it would have your head spin!
What FOOLS you are!

Partisan: Please explain how Sarah Palin having a pregnant daughter is like Thomas Eagleton having depression.

You guys are really desperate, aren't you? Keep going, though, I feel that female anger getting worse all the time.

Neesy08, are you yelling at me or agreeing with me? I'm so confused...

I agree with your statements for the most part. I simply hope you don't think I admire this behavior, because that's the last thing I've been trying to say.

Note: Anyone who claims to support Sen. Obama should leave this story alone. I agree with him when I say that this issue has no place in politics. Yes talk about her stance on birth control and sex education but leave her daughter out of it. Sen. Obama's mother was 18 when she gave birth to him.

I would cringe if anyone were to hold my parents responsible for me being hard headed and foolish. Trust me, I've been both and it is no reflection on my parent's judgment or parenting skills.

Amen.

First I'd like to say congratulations to Bristol and to the father and to the soon to be grand parents, I wish you all nothing less then the best!

Now that that's out of the way,

After 8 years of bush, I have come to realize that the republicans have mastered the art of "portraying what is unquestionably a disastrous outcome as a wonderful success" again.

with the challenges this country is facing now, and more surely coming soon, can we afford to have the VP tied up with a baby bottle and newborn of her own in one hand and helping out and teaching her daughter the art of motherhood with the other ?

This is terrible, even if Palin's 17 year old daughter isn't pregnant, she already has one chlid with autism, which is bad enough. You would think that the Republican's would have sought to find a far better Vice President than one with poor parental abilities. Especially with teen pregnancy on the rise in this country. And how is it that the Republicans would come out to justify her indiscretions by announcing that the baby of her bastards will marry her. What a joke. John McCain is 72 years old, he is finished and washed up. My God I would rather have 4 more years with the drunken Bush family.

But I hear she is a Muslim!!! Good news though, I heard Reverend Ted Haggard was available to preform the wedding. Odd I look this up everywhere I could and the soon to be father is said to Not Want Children on his web site. I hate when the Republicans tell us how we should live. But I so love when it blows up in there face. Hey republicans, good news, you are no better than me!!!

Good thing it isn't Autism, the conservatives have already stated that is just "laziness and fakery". They were about to equate Down's Syndrome with witchcraft, but well, THIS came up, so they backed off.

And how is it that the Republicans would come out to justify her indiscretions by announcing that the baby of her bastards will marry her.

So, you have to throw in the word "bastard"? It's amazing how much hate there is to go around.

And please don't give me that "technically the baby IS a bastard!" stuff. Classy.

They are attacking the policies that her mother chose to use which failed and show that the policies are full of crap.

What a short memory we have.

Palin is not qualified.

Late U.S. Senator Carnahan, dead, won the elections for his wife?

What experience Mrs. Carnahan to legislate our laws?

Jesus. This is the same kind of thinking that Venezuela, Cuba and Iran are "tiny" countries and we should not be worry about them.

Uhh...

First, I am talking about her policies, not her experience there.

Second, experience is worth S%$T. It is about the ideas they have, not the experience.

If Obama can quote his experience on CNN yesterday as "2 years campaigning with a staff of 2,500 and a budget 3 times the size of Wasilla in a month - nearly $36 million"

Then Sarah Palin can quote her last two years as an Executive Leader...

As a governor who oversees 24,000 state employees, 14 statewide cabinet agencies and a 10 billion dollar budget.

What does Barack have to stand on? He may need to run for mayor of a bigger Wasilla.

The experience stuff is complete crap anyway.

When Obama was thought to be picking Tim Kain, Rove came out and said "The guy is horrable. He has only 3 years experience as govoner and was mayor of the 157th largest city in teh country...." his argument was that more expoerience with a larger population is all aspects of Kains experience is worthless. Funny how Palin suddely has loads of expereince.

Well, dealing w/your side of the aisle for Gov Palin is like dealing w/several countries that don't love us.

BMS experience has relevance when either candidate tries to make a case that the other isn't qualified. Be honest, I'm sure you've heard a couple people say Palin lacks experience.

Truth is that Sarah Palin has more executive experience than McCain, Joe Biden and Obama put together. Here's more reasons why:

-- None of them has ever started or run a business as Palin did.

-- None of them has run a giant state like Alaska, which is larger than California and Texas put together and has a $10 billion annual budget.

-- Gov. Palin has as many constituents as either Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden, and she's not just one of a number of lawmakers for her constituents, she's their elected leader.

a giant state like Alaska, which is larger than California and Texas

and with only 700,000 people in it!

It does if those who receive the education actually put it into practice...

Priceless.

Palin is the classic social conservative, religious fundamentalist, republican stereo type.

• For Abstinence only education
• Against a women's right to choose
• Against contraception
• Relies on her political party to teach her children their greed driven, corrupt values

And somehow she claims to be a feminist?

So funny, in a uniquely, hypocritical, twisted, republican sort of way.

I think she's gone beyond being a GOP stereotype and has run headlong into being a characterture of a GOP stereotype. She's become a cartoon character. Democrats do not have to attack her as she's doing a great job of self-destructing. I may be wrong, but I believe it was Lee Atwater who said that when your opponent is busy destroying themselves, let them.

It does if those who receive the education actually put it into practice...

Exactly. And it would be put into practice if the "education" received actually worked.

Well, it's a matter of personal opinion, Mr. Ford. The new fashionable way of Hollywood model role is to have the kids first and marry later. The prototype came from Nordic countries in Europe.

Single mothers are in.

J Miller - I would assume that Palin would have given her daughter that education since she believes strongly in abstinence and is against all forms of birth control - even for married couples.

Its like letting a 3 year old walk around with a loaded gun.

This is a hell of a mess for McCain. I do feel bad for the girl though - sad that she has to have her private life platered all over the world - but I said it in another post - her Mother has gotten ahead of herself and isn't ready for prime time and her family will be the one that pays the price.

The new fashionable way of Hollywood model role is to have the kids first and marry later.

But this is not the fashion among the abstinence-only, no-birth-control, no-abortion set who want to tell us all how to run our lives. Sarah Palin and her daughter are what people like Sarah Palin rail against.

Having done so well with her daughter, what Sarah Palins new handicapped baby? Who will be taking care of that child, Sarah Palin? If so, how is she going to find the time? If not, what does that say about her parenting? She can't have it both ways and campaign as super-mom while she shrugs the responsibility off to others, or doesn't even make sure somebody is doing the parenting.

This is a hell of a mess for McCain. I do feel bad for the girl though - sad that she has to have her private life platered all over the world - but I said it in another post - her Mother has gotten ahead of herself and isn't ready for prime time and her family will be the one that pays the price.

Supporting Sarah and Bristol,

Yes, we can

Feldspar

Priceless.

Palin is the classic social conservative, religious fundamentalist, republican stereo type.

* For Abstinence only education * Against a women's right to choose * Against contraception * Relies on her political party to teach her children their greed driven, corrupt values

And somehow she claims to be a feminist?

So funny, in a uniquely, hypocritical, twisted, republican sort of way.

Actually Palin isn't against contraception

Time magazine:

"She is Christian and pro-life, but also a supporter of birth control: she's a member of Feminists For Life (FFL), an anti-abortion, pro-contraception organization. In 2002, she wrote a letter to FFL stating that she had "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion." She supports the teaching of creationism in public schools, alongside evolution.",

but the rest of your post is spot on.

She supports contraception, but apparently not making it available to her 17 year old.

I start from the premise that teenagers are stupid when it comes to making choices that can greatly impact their lives and go from there. If I don't want my Daughter to get pregnant, I will do all I can to teach her to respect her body and that no teenage boy is worth getting into bed with, but I will also let her know what her resources are in case she decides to have sex so that she does not get knocked up.

Educating teens on where to get the items they need for safe, child free sex is important.

While I'm not certain that she's abstinence only (her stance on other issues means I wouldn't be surprised) I'm also not convinced that she's not simply because she belongs to a group that is pro-contraception. A lot of people belong to groups but don't share all of the values of the group. The vast majority of Christians, for example. Nothing in the quote you posted has a quote from Palin saying she's pro contraception, but nothing says she's against it, either.

Actually - the FFL group doesn't have a position on contraception. They say that some members believe it is ok and other do not support the use in any way - their policy is that it isn't part of their particular mission so they don't voice a position.

Educating teens on where to get the items they need for safe, child free sex is important.

I totally agree with you.

Actually - the FFL group doesn't have a position on contraception.

Yeah, I couldn't find anything on FFl site about their stance on contraception. Does anyone have a link to another source for her position on this?

A lot of people belong to groups but don't share all of the values of the group.

Good point.

Ah! Abstinence only education works so well.

Brian, And handing out condoms in schools has worked wonderfully, too, I see... I only know of one person in the history of humankind who got pregnant while practicing abstinence.

Bob,

the point is that Abstinence only education does not educate the teens on contraception so when they succumb to their urges, they get pregnant.

No one says Abstinence does not have a place in a sex ed class, but it should be one of many topics covered.

No one says Abstinence does not have a place in a sex ed class,

The Republican Presidential candidates choice for running mate does.

Read that again Dan, I think you misread what I said.

The fact is, regardless of what you will hear over the next few days, Bristol's pregnancy is not a legitimate political issue. Sarah Palin is a longterm member of a group called Feminists for Life, which is not opposed to birth control.

>>>>

As for the idea — sure to be floated—that the avowedly anti-abortion Palin may have pressured her poor daughter to ruin her life by carrying an unwanted baby to term, I wouldn't bet on it. The Palin family seems to share the same pro-life values going back at least as far back as anyone here can remember, and it wouldn't be at all surprising if Bristol wore those values, however imperfectly, as her own. At least, that's what the town thinks. Time

Obama: "I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be a topic of our politics."

On charges that his campaign has stoked the story via liberal blogs:

"I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us," he said. "Our people were not involved in any way in this, and they will not be. And if I thought there was somebody in my campaign who was involved in something like that, they would be fired."

I think this is standard outcry from Democrats because of the Hypocrisy that is the Modern Republican party.

I only know of one person in the history of humankind who got pregnant while practicing abstinence.

The very fact that you know someone who was practicing abstinence is amazing, in and of itself.

(I tried that through high school and college. I found that a keen interest in Tolkien kept me away from the fairer sex -- and sex.)

Someone *with* a condom has a better chance of avoiding pregnancy than someone without, assuming both are planning on having sex. At least in the former situation, there's a barrier for entry.

Pipeline's not the only thing getting laid in Alaska...

Oh no... I would say a lot of pipe is getting laid in Alaska.

Expecting all teens to practice abstinence successfully makes as much sense as expecting Ferrari owners will drive 25 MPH.

Great logic here.

The fact that leftists are gleeful concerning this pregnancy reveals how morally bankrupt the left has become. I'm a moderate Democrat, and I'll be praying for this family not tearing them apart.

The left is disgusting.

and I'll be praying for this family not tearing them apart.

Of course not, it would be if Bristol decided to have an abortion. The family is taking action in what they preach.

They're pro-life and not aborting the baby.

Maybe you did not understand the post.

I am pro-life and not abortion except in three cases.

Rape

Incest

Death of the mother

Not the lie of Roe vs Wade

Palin only has one exception: The health of the mother.

No other exceptions.

People are attacking the hypocrisy. Republicans can apologize for their failed ideas all they want, but this is a bare knuckle example of how bad their sex ed and contraception policies are.

Stop assuming (which is lying)

Assuming is lying? Is that like birth control is abortion?

and shut up

Yes, don't make things worse by talking about it.

Oh, please, spare the sermon or aren't you listening to the message?

No, you are right that I don't know the intimate details of this family, but I do know what a relationship should be like between a mother and daughter. That is the most precious relationship there is, just like a father and his son's.

Excellent point chelu.

But Palin's daughter being pregnant is positive proof that abstinence only education works.

It works to keep young potentially conservative women (white women) out of college, pregnant, destined for low income jobs or careers as stay at home breeders. Either way they are likely to stay ignorant, poor and voting a strait R tickets for the rest of their lives.

It keeps young minority women in the same boat but the key with them is they usually don't vote anyway so no problem there.

It does exactly what the republican want it to do.

Abstinence education obviously didn't work, so I think Palin should have to speak on why she advocates it. Also, this sounds like a shotgun wedding, not the greatest reasons to get married. These are a group of people that say gay marriage lessens the institution of marriage when they are perfectly happy with marriage for money or to save embarrassment. These people have values alright, they have the worst values you can imagine.

Is that like birth control is abortion?

Some birth control measures are abortion, including the procedures that are usually referred to as abortion (suction-aspiration, dilation and evacuation), and emergency birth control pills for example. If you're aborting a pregnancy then by definition that is a form of birth control. The other forms of birth control are preventative.

This crap (abstinence only education) is exactly why my son's condom selling business at school it booming....

but I do know what a relationship should be like between a mother and daughter.

Does this mean that you have/ had a daughter? I have raised 2 and at 17 the last person they want to confide in is their mother. I went through the first love with both of my daughters as well as the first broken heart. I talked to my girls about "the birds and bees" bottom line--they made their own decisions regardless of what I said.

As a parent all we can do is our best, it doesn't ensure perfection and any parent out there knows this is true.

I guess if having your un-wed daughter get pregnant is a reflection that someone is a bad parent, I would say there are a hell of a lot of bad parents around this country.

Get off your high horses, put yourself in their place, in fact I would bet there are a bunch of you out there now; maybe even bashing the Palin's, that will or have faced this very thing yourself.

Delighting in someone Else's agony is pretty disturbing if you ask me. It shows a very real lack of humanity.

This crap (abstinence only education) is exactly why my son's condom selling business at school it booming....

LOL!!! Is your son looking to grow his condom selling distribution business or considered franchising with the help of a potential investor like myself? LOL!!!

ajzzz: Abstinence education obviously didn't work

What is your evidence to support this statement?

ComSen,

there have been numerous studies on teen sex , STD, and Pregnancy rates that show the rates are higher in places that have abstinence only sex ed.

Of course you don't...

I think there might be another Obama seed for you to try and shoot down. I'm sure you'll find some "news" there.

The news is that it debunks the rumor that Palin was already a grandmother and was raising her daughter's child as her own.

Chasing, GOOD POINT!

You know I heard a rumor today, "shhh don't tell anyone about this, but Obama's oldest daughter "might" be reaching Puberty soon".

McCain knew about this before hand and like most 'sane people' decided it wasnt a political issue.

I guess its more of an issue that Obama's good friend Tony Rezko being sentenced 10 days before the Election on 16 counts of influence peddling.

You know I know some people in our neighborhood who have dealt with their teenage daughter getting pregnant, but for the life of me, None of my friends or neighbors know anybody convicted of 16 counts of influence peddling?

I wonder who the American Public relates to more? A mom who has a daughter whose pregnant or Obama whose friend is going to jail for influence peddling?

It raises questions though. Whether it "should" or not (I think this is as good an indictment as abstinence only education as any and valid fodder for people who tire of hearing about how awful we are for not having Christian values) -- this is going to dominate the news in a negative way for a few days, and it raises questions about McCain's vetting process of Sarah Palin. Did he know? If so, did he tell anyone else that might have seen a red flag? If he didn't know, why didn't she tell him, given her views? Why did it take 5 months and a VP nomination and some ugly rumors to bring this out?

Anyone who thinks this is "nothing" is probably secretly worried about what it means for McCain.

McCain knew about this before hand and like most 'sane people' decided it wasnt a political issue.

How do you know?

I'm now seeing reports that McCain knew -- but...

I still say it raises questions about his ultra-secretive vetting process. Would anyone else have endorsed her with this issue on the table, given her views?

This just courts controversy, and is a HUGE distraction on convention week. It's going to raise questions in voters minds about her choices, her secrecy, her trustworthiness, who she is, etc.

It raises questions though. Whether it "should" or not (I think this is as good an indictment as abstinence only education as any and valid fodder for people who tire of hearing about how awful we are for not having Christian values)

Brian,

How do you know this young woman was taught abstinence only?

The why do you think this is any of our business at all?

can never keep the topic off rezko.. you must love him mcgovern.. want to offer proof with your rumour
you also never lived arround wealth
my preacher was busted for selling shares to a fake gold mind.. I have also known peopel busted for embezzling.. one of my neighbours was the largest coicaine bust in sc history.. my sis baby sat his kids.. I knew a guy right down the street also busted for tryign to bribe officials. And last my neighbour was busted for embezzling 50k from habitat for humanity. I probably could have sit on a baord with someone bad as well.
you live in poorer neighbourhoods your goignt o know people busted as drug dealers, armed robbery, etc.. you live in the rciher ones.. you may meet the people I have in my long time on this planet.. ebezzlers, bribers and crazy preiests tryign to sell gold mines.
With all these aquantences.. how many of them do you think I was actually involved with?
So I ask you once again mcgovern.. prove your point about rezko
heck what about hillaries chinese man? or mccain and keating
yoru crap doesn't stick man.

like most 'sane people' decided it wasnt a political issue.

What yardstick of sanity determines what is political news? We hear about everything from a wide stance to a flag pin in painful detail. It's a debate point when a party that uses the image of an unwed mother, as emblematic of the failings of others they feel morally bound to legislate for, and parades the poor child into a National spotlight, then ask us to ignore what went off track for them, while they get about the business of reforming laws to keep our family values to what standards?

McCain knew about this before hand and like most 'sane people' decided it wasnt a political issue.

SOURCE

McCain knew about this before hand and like most 'sane people' decided it wasnt a political issue.

Please, spare me the self righteousness.

If this were a daughter of Obama or Biden, the conservatives and McCain's campaign would be all over it like flies on @!$%#. Who the hell do you think you're kidding.

Amen, on planet GOP I think they will be making the case that Bristol was divinely inseminated by an angel of God.

By the way McGovern guy are trying to equate McCain with Nixon?

Just curious.

Brian,

I dont believe in abstience only education myself, it is in my opinion a parents choice at some levels, but then I think the Bush office of faith based initiatives ( which Obama wants to not only keep but expand) should be dismantled.

I can tell you this, we are a bunch of adults guessing what went through the mind of a 17 year old girl in a public forum and personally at a time when we have major issues in this country, we should be getting politicians to define their views on serious issues affecting this country this is what we are talking about?

Do you know what I got in the email yesterday from the Obama campaign?

Not and update on issues, our plans going forward, what our positions are but an email wanting me to donate 15.00 to the campaign before midnight and I would get a "FREE OBAMA-BIDEN magnet"!!!

What do I get if I donate 50.00 bucks? An Obama-Biden vegamatic?

My point is I would be perfectly ok with newviners getting together and pick a Presidential issue of the day and discuss the candidates views and positions, but we are here talking about this?

Would anyone else have endorsed her with this issue on the table, given her views?

After all the Dems might settle for Romney.

I would say this, McCain is full of surprises.

Joules

can never keep the topic off rezko.. you must love him mcgovern.. want to offer proof with your rumour

Certainly Joules I dontt make statements without evidence:

Obama and his Rezko ties
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article

Obama's Rezko ties deeper than land deal http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/184540,122306obama.article

An Obama Patron and Friend Until an Indictment
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/us/politics/14rezko.html

Joules if you need more I probably could give 50 or more links, the information is out there, you just have to take off the blinders long enough to see it. If you want to talk about controvery here you are!

Mcgovern - it proves that Palin is:

1) A hyprocrit
2) A liar (I would bet big money the McCain campaign wasn't told this up front or she wouldn't have gotten picked - they are saying they new but thats what they have to say - I am sure they are really pissed off.
3) She is in way over her head and she has put her family on the spot
4) She calls for abstinence only education and NO birth control for single or married people - so she is an idiot.
5) She is a liar - oops - thats a repeat but lets use this one for the Bridge to Nowhere lie she told.

It does prove that her daughter isn't the mother of the new baby - however - this is actually worse - because she is a liar. Sorry - just had to toss that one in.

The news is: was Sarah Palin properly vetted. This issue doesn't disqualify her from VP, and we shouldn't crucify her daughter for this. But we should question what the heck John McCain was thinking when he picked a woman without properly vetting her. And what was Sarah thinking when she accepted the nomination, knowing that this story would cause her family and especially her daughters reputation do be dragged through the mud. She had to know that this was going to hurt the GOP brand even more. I am happy that her daughter chose to keep her baby and we have all done things wrong in our past so I am not judging the daughter. What I am wondering is what else are we going to find out about this woman.

Nearing, but - does it debunk the rumor? The math is too pat - 4 month baby + 5 month pregnancy = 9. I didn't believe the rumoruntil this new pregnancy was revealed. I still believe it is unproven, but I suspect the tissue of lies that makes up Sarah Palin's life will soon be the stuff of newsprint. Just the fact that she trots a 4 month old preemie - note that both prematurity and Down syndrome are associated with immune compromise - into public bespeaks a sick ambition, IMO. If Lifetime TV had been offered this script, they would have rejected it as preposterous. Something is stranger than fiction here. . .

I don't know urbane gorilla.

If Bristol is in fact 5 months pregnant.

Conveniently the pregnancy will come to term after the election.

I'm starting to get a creepy, career obsessed, nothing will stand in the way of my political success vibe from Sara Palin.

urbane --

You're right that this doesn't actually disprove anything. There are plenty of "Catholic twins" in the world (siblings born less than 10 months apart). As they say, after birth the "oven is ready", it's not unusual for a woman to be prescribed birth control pills at the two week follow up with her OB.

Brian, please tell us everything about your personal life before replying to any more comments. We, as fellow bloggers, deserve to know every detail. Your unwillingness to do so will prove to the world that you should not be an active participant of society.

There is a such thing as privacy, even for people in the limelight (and especially for their children).

For the last time, This is not about her children, it is about her.

And where was the privacy for Bill Clinton?

Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.

She didn't look into the camera and say her daughter wasn't pregnant. Then she would have been a Liar.

Clinton should not have had to.

His privacy was violated before any of that camera crap happened so his lying to the American people bout his personal life does not really deflect from the hypocrisy of the Republicans.

All he had to say was, Yes I did have sex with that woman. He chose to lie. That really wasn't personal time, he was in the Oval office, kinda makes it tax payers business.

Well said my friend!

Actually, I would disagree that this story demonstrates hypocrisy on the part of Gov. Palin. She chose to give birth to a child, knowing that it would suffer from a serious health condition. Her young daughter has chosen to give birth to a child, despite an unplanned pregnancy. This family seems to "walk to the walk."

I am sure it is not any parent's dream to have a 17 year old daughter deliver the news she is pregnant. However, Gov. Palin seems to be sending a strong example of the support a family can provide when this type of situation arises. She has chosen to send this example in the most public of ways. This is not hypocrisy - this is an example of Gov. Palin sticking to her values even though it may cost her politically, and her family emotionally. Values are meaningless if they are jettisoned when they become politically uncomfortable. Had her daughter chosen to have an abortion to help her mother's political career, then there would be an example of hypocrisy.

This is a very tough time for a very young lady. Please keep that in mind with your comments.

you says she walks the talk but isnt premarital sex wrong.. even with pullign out? isnt that the evengellical thing.. no sex before marriage.
so I guess the whoel abstinese thing didnt work for an extremely evengelical family.. how the frak do they think it will work on mine? You know bush gave mor emoney for abstinese education than any other president.. I suppose this mom would as well.. despite she knows full well it don't work.

a mother of 5 and now has a daughter giving birth.. you think she will have all her priorities together if something happend to mccain and she had to take the reigns?
Mccain is really old and lets not forget he was tortured for 5 years.. thatc an do crazy things to a mind and body..

Yo jazzman, you can not make personal attacks (#5.3) here at Newsvine. If you plan to stick around, it's one of the first rules you need to know. There aren't many rules and it's a biggie. :~)

Hypocresy?

Come on, read the agenda of Obama. Single mother, left by the father @ age 2, his white grandparents raised him..........

Following the model role.

You know bush gave mor emoney for abstinese education than any other president

And Obama wants to EXPAND the office of faith based initiative which passes out money for these programsn.

Joules?

If Bristol Palin is reading these comments, she is a masochist.

And the rumors got going BECAUSE NO ONE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT PALIN, and were trying to square a bunch of circumstantial information.

I wonder if folks feel the same way (see reply 5.4) about Obama's family and all the Muslim rumors that refuse to be quashed.

<
a mother of 5 and now has a daughter giving birth.. you think she will have all her priorities together if something happened to McCain and she had to take the reigns
>

Are you saying she needs to stay home and take care of her children? I hope that is the underlying premise of the comment. I have yet to hear an argument that a male politician should "have his priorities together" as it relates to raising his children.

No family is perfect. This one is having to live through a difficult time in not only an extremely public way, but also, as the comments in this thread evidence, an extremely adversarial environment. This is something which happens in MANY American families every day. Those families, sometimes, are even evangelical families.

The Palin family's reaction to this young lady's unplanned pregnancy is where you can seen the family's commitment to its beliefs. They are setting an example of a supportive family. Many families across this country will identify.

Also, in response to "I wonder if folks feel the same way (see reply 5.4) about Obama's family and all the Muslim rumors that refuse to be quashed," I would share the same sentiment. I think it is wrong to paint the Obama family falsely as to their religious beliefs. The bottom line is that ad hominem attacks are the lowest form of argument and do nothing to contribute to the marketplace of ideas. I think BOTH sides should refrain from such attacks.

Determined: First, Obama never preached about the evils of single motherhood, although he did say that raising a child alone was tough for his (legally married but divorced) mom. Second, it wasn't his choice to have his father walk out on him as a child. Palin had a choice whether to give her children realistic information about sex and birth control, and for ideological reasons she chose not to, and has encouraged all parents to do the same. That's what "abstinence-only" sex education means, and she is a strong advocate of it. She is now facing the unwanted consequences. And yes, "No McGovern Repeat," many families do deal with this same problem. A lot of them because they followed Ms. Palin's advice.

det...Come on, read the agenda of Obama. Single mother, left by the father @ age 2, his white grandparents raised him..........

Those were circumstances that were determined for him. None of us choose our parents or our upbringing, we take what fate landed us in and grow from there. As adults we chart our own course, with options that vary widely varied by virtue of birth.

When a politician preaching family values steps into the National spotlight it does matter how well those values work for her at home with her own family. What kind of mothering can she give to a teen mother to be, a down syndrome infant and three more plus a spouse?

What kind of time can she give to learning what a Vice President does when we have a 72 year old survivor of 5 years of torture and cancer. Maybe it works as an updated Legally Blonde script, but please, toss out Harriet and let the real VP nominee step in. It was funny while the gag lasted.

Conservative "family value" candidates: If you can't stand the heat, keep the bun out of the oven.

Another thread here on newsvine pointed out that Sarah Palin's eldest was born 8 months after she married. This could be a premature birth, or it could be that Sarah Palin's advice to her daughter was somewhat weakened as a "Do as I say, not as I did"; it may be like mother, like daughter.

How should Gov. Palin have handled this situation? Within days of being announced as the GOP VP candidate, she announced her daughter's pregnancy, so she is not trying to hide it. She is showing love and support for her daughter as opposed to throwing her to the wolves/bears in the Alaskan tundra. Obviously, this situation was not her dream script for this time in her life, but an unplanned pregnancy happened. How is she responding inappropriately?

The generic response of "The Family Values Republican are draconian in their positions . . . " has been beaten to death. Heck yea, there are hypocrites in both parties. Heck yea, there are people in both parties that leave little to no room for differing view points. Heck yea, there are people in both parties that vilify people who live their lives differently. Rather than make a knee jerk, generalization of a person by the extreme factions in the party, focus on what has happened, and how this candidate has responded.

I have not made up my mind as to which candidate will receive my vote. I am trying to look at the candidates and the way they respond to the situations. I do not have a criticism for the way the Palin family is responding to the unplanned pregnancy of their teenage daughter. They are showing love and support for her. I don't see anything wrong with that.

STEEERRRIKE Two - One more and she steps down, deferring to the campaign (perhaps as planned from the beginning) you read it here first.

So you are saying that she announced this on her own and it was planned that way all the time? I think she had to come out with it. If it is so ok then why do it today and not Friday, saturday or Sunday?

The reason is that in the GOP and with her position it isn't ok for her to have an unwed teenage daughter - it just isn't - they are in serious spin mode (as any campaign would be) and are trying to figure out how to get around this. I still say mccain's people missed it in the vetting and they are totally BS about it.

One more and she steps down, deferring to the campaign (perhaps as planned from the beginning) you read it here first.

Let's face it, if Romney comes the same music will start.

I think that this little woma is scaring the politicians in Washington. Truth in front, not easy but....her life is public because she is a Governor.

This is not a case like Spitzer or Edwards.

Palin had a choice whether to give her children realistic information about sex and birth control, and for ideological reasons she chose not to, and has encouraged all parents to do the same

Source for this information? Unless you live in that houshold you have no idea what they taught their daughter. I'm pretty sure you don't know these people personally, so why are you commenting as if you really know something?

and exactly how do you know that is the case? what you are all overlooking is the fact that people who want abstinence only education are talking only about what the SCHOOLS are teaching. you have no clue what was discussed in the home.

personally, i don't want the schools teaching my 3 kids about birth control or contraceptives. they can't even do a decent job of teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic. why would i want them teaching things that could alter/destroy the lives of my kids? however, i have already been completely upfront with my own 13 yr. old.

we simply want the choice of what our kids are taught within the walls of the school when it comes to morals. this is yet another example of how libs do NOT want to give the option of choice to anyone but someone seekinig an abortion.

It's time to bring the chaperons like I had all the time when engaged to Mr. Det.

inyurhead - you are so all over the place with your logic that you actually argue with yourself and you don't even know it.

example?

Read your post 6.1 - you are all over the place about how schools shouldn't teach anything other than the three R's but then you want to decide what morals are taught inside the school walls.

Basically what you are saying is - the school can teach morals as long as they are your morals.

You suggest that Morals should be taught at home and then you bounce to how to teach them at school. which is it?

By the way - Morals come from home. Evolution and Geometry come from school

how are you missing it today, sm? or, are you being intentionally thick?

the point is i DO NOT want morals taught in school. HOME is where morals should be taught. CHURCH is where morals should be taught. NOT in the public school.

unless it is a private school (therefore intentionally chosen and paid for...generally for the express purpose of avoiding much of the incompetence and immorality of public schooling), they (the public schools) are simply not equipped to handle moral discussions. at the very least, we need to be able to opt our children out of the school's version of these "classes". their job should be to make sure kids have a solid grasp of the basics.

is that clear enough for you now, or will you intentionally miss this one, too?

do you really think she had a choice?

I HATE abortion... but if Bristol wanted one (hopefully she didn't) her Bible thumping mother would probably rather do an honor killing than allow it!

uhm Bristol hasn't owned up to anything.....Mommy has.

rather do an honor killing than allow it!

You're confusing Christians with Muslims

Proud America -"Source for this information? Unless you live in a Muslim houshold you have no idea what they teach. I'm pretty sure you don't know these people personally, so why are you commenting as if you really know something?" Take your own advice.....

Throughout the United States, Canada, and Europe, young Muslim women are being targeted for violence. Lest it be thought hate crimes are to blame, it is, in fact, their own relatives who are the perpetrators. So-called honor killings, whereby a Muslim male family member, typically the father, murders his daughter in order to defend the family's honor, is a growing problem.

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Cinnamon Stillwell San Francisco: Sanctuary City Gone Awry 07.16.08 Islam in America's public schools: Education or indoctrination? 06.11.08 Fuel or folly? Ethanol and the law of unintended consequences 04.02.08 Homeless by the bay 03.05.08 More Cinnamon Stillwell »

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While statistics are notoriously hard to come by due to the private nature of such crimes and the fact that very few are reported, the United Nations Population Fund approximates that as many as 5,000 women are murdered in this manner each year worldwide. Undoubtedly that's a low estimate, as reports from Turkey, Jordan, Pakistan and the Palestinian territories, among other locales, are filtering in at an alarming rate. Add to the list Germany, Sweden, other parts of Europe, the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United States, and it's clear that young Muslim women in the West are becoming increasingly vulnerable.

Actually I do know several Muslims. And I also know a ex-Muslim woman who's father attempted to kill her for becoming a Christian and she was able to escape.

What does that passage have to do with Muslims and abortion? Jazzy-255460 was clearly speaking of abortion. You just went left field with this one. Show facts about Muslims supporting abortion over Christians.....No wait don't waste your time because you already know Muslims so you already know the answer.....

KSS Re # 7.1

her Bible thumping mother would probably rather do an honor killing than allow it!

I responded

You're confusing Christians with Muslims

Meaning Christians don't kill perform honor killings when their kids make mistakes, I was responding to an anti-Christian slur.

To which you jumped in with # 7.4

Does this make it less confusing for you? Or are you purposely being daft?

I am sure Sara Palin and her husband have drilled into their children's heads that BIRTH CONTROL IS EVIL...that people who use it are the messenger's of satan and are all condemned to HELL.

You're sure.

Tell us how you are sure?

Were you there?

EXPLAIN how you are sure?

What is your support for saying she is opposed to the use of birth control for young women who choose to engage in sex? There is very little on the internet that I can find which discusses her position. If you could share your source (citation/link), it may help educate the rest of us.

All I was able to find on the internet about her position on birth control was a quote from a Time magazine article entitled "Conservative Believer" by Claire Suddath. The quote was:

"She is Christian and pro-life, but also a supporter of birth control: she's a member of Feminists For Life (FFL), an anti-abortion, pro-contraception organization. In 2002, she wrote a letter to FFL stating that she had 'adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion.'"

It seems that her position is pro-contraception. If there is evidence to the contrary, please post it.

shes evengleical.. she does oppose birth control it has been posted on the vine.. I'll lookfor it in a bit.
she preaches against birth control and for abstinence.

Gov. Palin is a strong proponent of teaching abstinence-only sex education to teenagers. pallin opposes birth control even for married couples

not sure on the birth control pill thing now... there is evidence to the contrary

Feral Cat, If you go to the Newsvine discussion "Palin opposes use of birth control pills and condoms even among married couples" (sorry, I don't know how to post a link here), and scroll down to comments 1.24 and 1.25 there are several links to articles showing that Palin is NOT anit-contraceptive, as so many people on this board have claimed (without proof, I might add).

but knowing full well the REALITIES of being a teenager and the DANGERS of rape, not having my child protected against unwanted pregnancy is more irresponsible

Using this logic then at puberty every girl should be put on birth control. Maybe the schools can pass it out in home room.

Are any of you aware that the Catholic Church (Biden's church) opposes birth control other than natural methods (abstinence,rhythm) for married couples?

We're electing Biden, not his church.

Fortunately Palin is a linelong member of the NRA so she has the guns ready.

If they always planned to marry, I don't think she would still be single and 5 months gone. Have they set a date, even now?

I can not believe people are actually falling for this story. They put this story out there to take away from the fact that Palin lied to a Nation about being Trig's mother. Honestly what else could they have done? And what better way to do it? She doesn't want to get investigated on this one. Think about it people....The pictures that are circulating where Bristol looks pregnant were taken months ago according to some of the dates at the bottom of the picture. Then when Bristol came out a few days ago with her family her stomach looks smaller than it did in those pictures!! I thought your uterus increases in size when your pregnant, not decrease!! I wouldn't be surprised if she has a mysterious "miscarriage" soon....But the focus is not if Bristol is pregnant now, it's if she was pregnant BEFORE with Trig!!

Bristol being the actual mother would explain why Palin behaved so stupidly when her water broke.

Even if your ridiculous accusations were true, who cares? Why would that make you so happy?

Who said it would make me happy? It would just explain why she acted so stupid for someone who had a high risk pregnancy.

Let it go, really it is OK; there are more important issues to talk about than feeding the rumor mill about who is or isn't the mother of that sweet baby boy.

David, I don't think "hate" is the word here. That applies if you spread rumors that the opponent is a Muslim radical who wants to destroy America. This story, however, does relate to a policy issue that Palin has publicly advocated, and that obviously does not work, as she has now learned from personal experience.

This story, however, does relate to a policy issue that Palin has publicly advocated, and that obviously does not work, as she has now learned from personal experience.

Right Sue,

Total fkin BS and you know it.

This is as low as politics gets

If this were you're daughter, you'd be incensed at the comments on this page, and screaming about your right to privacy.

If the Palins were more concerned about their privacy than her career, they would not have made a carefully worded public announcement. Sarah would have realized the fallout and respectfully declined. She could have had her daughter "disappear" to some distant friend or relative and hope the secret did not get out; I think that's how they handled it in the dark ages Sarah hails from.

Oh, please, Obama comes from a broken home, a single Mom, etc., etc. Where is the model role?

Determined, you keep repeating that like a broken record, but it has absolutely no relevancy here. The fact that Obama comes from a broken home is something over which he had no control, unless you want us to believe that a two year old ordered his parents to get divorced. Palin DID have control over how she raised and educated her kids.

Yes, Obama comes from a single parent home... and in spite of that adversity, he's the democratic presidential nominee. Says a lot about his character, and what a great role model he is. Overcoming the adversities we are born into builds character.

Now Palin on the other hand, a staunch supporter of abstinence only education, gives us yet another unwed teenage pregnant daughter. Sure, they say she is going to marry the child's father. But is that really the answer? And getting married simply because you get knocked up doesn't say much for the "sanctity of marriage", does it?

My money is on the fact that she lied - hard to vet that one - although they should have been able to see she was in over her head when they sent people up to interview her.

Either way - doesn't look good for either mccain or palin and now she has her daughter out in the middle of it.

Good thing Palin isn't a single mother on welfare

Probably why she isnt supporting Obama?

But I am sure Obama has a new expanded entitlement program to cover that.

He does - its called the Beat McCain and send Palin back to Alaska to focus on her family Act of 2008.

Yes, It was a Liberal who knocked up Palin's 17 year old daughter. It all part of our evil plan for world domination.

So this is Obama's fault? Really? Which Democrat got her pregnant then so they could use this story?

Good grief, will Nobama and his neo-lib campaigners stop at nothing to gain power and turn this country into the left-wing, socialist country they so ardently want it to become?

I'm pretty sure Obama is not the baby's daddy.

If by "stop at nothing" you mean expect Republicans to live up to their espoused values and hold them accountable for the things they say and their hypocrisies, then the answer is YES.

yeah the party of "faimly values" that's wants to FORCE those values on all of us.. gets sooo upset when they get busted with their pants down.. then life is unfair and we are all human and blaa blaaa blaaa blaaa
practice what you preach and YELL AT the people you normally yell at

we also understand that people....especially kids make mistakes. that certainly doesn't mean you don't teach the kids right from wrong. do you not teach your kid that it's wrong to steal, just because he might steal anyway?

seriously, the left-wing "logic" here is astounding.

Oh the middle-name thing... nice one.

By your logic, McCain has convict ancestors from Australia. Oh and he must be elitist.

John Sydney McCain, III

Repugnant mud-slinging conservatives love to throw this topic around.

I can't wait to hear:

I, Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

No jack we won't - and the first stop is your house to get all your guns and brain wash you into believing everything we say. See you soon.

do you not teach your kid that it's wrong to steal, just because he might steal anyway?

I am sorry, but this is the most asinine comparison and exactly what is wrong with Republicans.

Without sex, there would be NO PEOPLE. Almost every single person on the face of the planet has sex. Sex is the most enticing when you are young! We need sex to exist!

Very few people NEED to STEAL.

The right-wing "logic" is mind-boggling!

and by your "logic", people NEED to have premarital sex? huh? O_o

give me a break. anyone with a belief in a higher power generally believes that premarital sex is wrong, as is stealing, murder, lying, etc. and even those without faith can be taught the difference between right and wrong. just because you can't grasp the logic, does not mean it's not there. and therein lies yet another problem with the liberal mindset...

again - you are all over the place.

and by your "logic", people NEED to have premarital sex? huh? O_o

Oh Christ.

No, the point is that people are going to have sex no matter what anyone says. In fact, if people stop having sex, people stop existing.

So you Republicans should take your heads out of everyone's crotch, stop trying to legislate sexual mores, and DEAL WITH REALITY.

sm, if i'm so "all over the place", quit reading my posts. simple solution for a.....nevermind. today, you're not worth it.

even those without faith can be taught the difference between right and wrong.

That has got to be the most ignorant and arrogant comment I have ever read. You obviously no nothing of human nature. I refuse to read any more of your drivel - clicks ignore author.

I agree with SM-701919; inyurhead, your posts are all over the place. Until you win that argument with yourself, I suggest you make one-line posts; it's hard to make two conclusions in one sentence, but I'm sure you will amaze us.

one of the most....amazingly strange things about us humans is how different we are, from our beliefs, to our appearances, to our observations. where one will see a straight line, another will see a lincoln continental. perhaps this is why a lawyer once told me that the worst evidence in a trial is more than one eye witness.

ed, i will miss you dearly.....or not.

Well said actually.

Probably one of the reasons a great technique for lawyers it to mention completly outlandish things and have the judge strike it from the record and instruct the jury to ignore the remark. All that lawyer has to do it get one person in the jury to keep that little nugget in their head and they could win - truth or not.

You're out of your mind.

If Bristol Palin had murdered someone, got caught with half a brick of coke, maybe your point would have some value.

You're so partisan, it blinds us all.

no she preaches abstinese.. would love if that was the LAW.. that's what people like her are fighting for.. and he daughter broke her would be law..
so yeah.. in another families house iI would agree
normal people teach their kids abstinesne.. they don't preach it(meanign they want us all to be forced to have their values)
so yeah she is a failure as a mother in this regaurd.

She hasn't failed as a parent. She doesn't have her daughter on a leash. And this same situation plays out in families all over the world (and the Vine). You just called a bunch of parents - including plenty who are going to vote for Obama, or who agree with you here, even, on NV - failures. Are you sure you want to be doing that?

Sarah might smoke Cuban cigars, vodka for the cold weather and.....many more things that comes to my mind.

She hasn't failed as a parent - she has been caught lying and being a hypocrit. Young kids get pregnant out of wedlock - its sad but it happens. She espouses a belief that makes that chance more likely with children (abstinence only education and NO birth control for anyone - married or single).

That is where she has failed - out of touch with the realities of the world. She is getting in touch pretty quickly now though - wouldn't you say?

Sarah Palin, by her own standards, is a failure as a parent. This predicament is more proof that "abstinance only" education is not education at all. If she had allowed her daughter to use birth control, perhaps this would not have happened. The bottom line is, adolescents are going to have sex. And lots of it. And the more the government tries to control them, the more they will rebel against it. If Sarah's daughter is lucky, then she's only been having sex with the boy who has been named as the father. Statistically though, she's probably had several partners by now and it could be the child of any of them. Some young girls may not be so lucky.

In Sarah Palin's world, rape victims will be forced to have children created by their violators. Can you imagine a 12 year-old rape victim being told by our Vice President that it is their duty to carry a bastard child until birth? If your daughter was raped and impregnated would you want to force her to carry the child? If you are a woman and you were brutally gang-raped and impregnated, would you want to be forced to carry the child by a government you helped to elect? To have to remember that one horrible night for the rest of your life everytime you look at your child?

Actually - in Sarah Palin's world she eats off of both sides of the plate. Her press release said that she was happy that her daughter chose to keep the child. Interesting how she is anti-abortion but her daughter still gets to have a "choice". Hypocrit again.

Palin's Failin'

wow... I am by no means a conservative or Palin fan for that manner... but your statement is ludicrous...

I think she is good mother.... there are plenty of young girls who get pregnant, it doesn't mean their parents are failures... it means they are HUMAN and had a lapse in judgement....

I hope your kids are PERFECT

True, humans have a lot of imperfections and through these they have lapses in judgement. With Palin, the imperfection is her belief that natural instincts can be overcome by moral rhetoric and propaganda.

Abstinance does not work.

It is an ideal that fails time and again because we are all animals with base instincts. We all enjoy sexual stimulation, and no amount of preaching about morality will change that fact. Palin's failure to recognize that her daughter is sexually active, and in need of birth control, is a glaring example of her failure as a parent.

So far Palin has only succeeded at being a hypocrite.

Sarah Palin has failed as a parent, what more could you really expect from her as a Vice President?

Untied the votes in the Congress.

happy that her daughter chose to keep the child.

I'm sure meaning that keeping her child verses giving it up for adoption.

As a parent, you can teach your child(ren) to the best of your ability. If your child decides to stray from that, it's not the parents choice, or fault, even at 17. We live in a "free will" society. We ALL have situations, make mistakes, and live with the consequences. We ALL have situations, make good and live with the benefits. WE are ALL human, no one is perfect.

determined: Palin has not failed as a parent, her daughter failed at the lesson(s) she was being taught. Just like so many in our US educational system of sex ed. and well most other subjects!

Very true Roxy, we are all very human. Most of us don't go around trying to force our beliefs on others, assuming the will of God as if we could possibly comprehend it. But it is hilarious to watch those people fall from grace. How can we not laugh? What's funnier than a liar caught in a lie? Surely laughter is the most natural of actions. Well, laughter and sex I guess.

the word of the day here seems to be "hypocrite". not only do we need to learn to spell it properly, but i think knowing the definition might help here as well. so, let's turn to dictionary.com for that info...

hyp·o·crite /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ –noun 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

the major problem with this label that many of you are throwing around is that sarah palin is not the 17 yr. old that is pregnant. therefore, her actions do not belie her stated belief, nor is she pretending virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc. she is also not feigning some desirable or publicly approved attitude, and her daughter's pregnancy does not belie her public statements.

this label does not fit. as has been repeatedly pointed out, a parent can only be responsible for teaching and loving the child. short of locking them in a closet, a parent can not control the actions of the child.

but, if mrs. palin would simply take the suggested course of action most of you seem to agree with, she should simply return home, resign her position as governor, take her shoes off, get back into the kitchen where she belongs, and spread her legs so she can get knocked up, too.

do you people have any idea how sexist you sound? if this were a man, i think it's a safe bet that he'd not be facing this level of denigration. you people are everything you accuse republicans of being. how does that finger pointing thing work again?

I think irony fits this situation better.

Barack Obama failed as a state legislator, what more could you really expect from him as a president?

Failed? are you serious? How did he fail?

McCain failed as a soldier. McCain failed as a US Senator. McCain failed as a husband (multiple times). What could we expect from him as president?

he failed as a soldier because he was in the freakin' navy, you dolt. of course, if the left didn't have such disdain for our military, they might know the difference....

What could we expect from him as president?

What do you expect from Palin as President?

What do you expect from Palin as President?

Horror.

When you are against birth control (even for married couples) and your unwed teenage daughter gets pregnant, it absolutely IS an issue, and should be.

I agree
just like when rush is against drug users but addicted to drugs
larry craig screwing pages when he is against child endangerment. hagart havign gay sex when he rallies against gay sex
and palin rallying for abstinese..a nd daughter gettign pregnant.. this is really PROOF THAT THOSE ISSUES>> OF THE GOP AND OUR PRESIDENT DO NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS AN ISSUE.. I GET TIRED OF SO MUCH MONEY BEING THROWN AT SOEMTHING THAT DOESNT WORK.. WE SEND MORE MONEY FOR ABSTINESE TO AFRICA THAN FOR CONDOMS.. SCHOOLS CANT GET MONEY FRO BIRTH CONTROL BUT THEY CAN FOR ABSTINESE.. IT DOESNT WORK.
IF AN EXTREMLY RELIGIOUS EVENGELICAL CANT KEEP HER OWN DAUGHTER FROM SEX BEFORE MARRRIAGE.. WHY DO THEY THINK AS STARNGERS.. THEY CAN MAKE MY KIDS STAY SEX FREE TILL MARRIAGE.
SSorry o break your bubble but it very much so is an ISSUE

Good insight. I agree that this shouldn't be an issue, regardless of which party was to be in the spotlight for something "wrong." It's just sad to realize that people base their votes off of internet rumors than things like policy.

For me personally, I hate to see so much time wasted during an election battling over abortion. Roe v. Wade says it's legal. The President cannot directly do anything about it; the most he can do is WAIT for a vacancy in the Supreme Court, appoint a justice with anti-abortion views, then WAIT some more for a suitable case to work its way up to the USSC.

Basically, all you people hoping for a politician to instantly reverse the ruling on abortion might as well be waiting on someone to invent a magic wand to make it happen.

I am not hiring a model role, I am hiring a female pitbull to go toe to toe w/Biden.

Munzilla - it is an issue when your daugther does exactly what you public stand up and say is immoral and the reason our country is in moral decay - yes - her being a hypocrit is an issue - sadly she brought it on herself.

yes - her being a hypocrit is an issue - sadly she brought it on herself.

Again, explain to me how this makes her a hypocrite. If SHE herself had gotten pregnant out of wedlock, then she'd be a hypocrite. At the most, this makes her a mother whose ideologies might not be shared by her 17 year old daughter.

That's not about hatred, TopJedi... that is about pointing out hypocrisy.

these people will be funidng abstinese issues over contraception.. it is an issue.. get off your high horse cause it is you in the gutter.

and this last comment from a guy that can't even get his "facts" right.

see post 8.4 up the page aways. she's anti-abortion, PRO-contraceprion, and belongs to Feminists For Life, and organization which stand on those same beliefs.

pedal your hatred and lies elsewhere, mark in worcester.

what's the matter with you people?

what's the matter with you people?

Well, McCain threw a rib to the Dems and they are moving their tail full of happiness. Something to talk about.

I have read that she is anti-birth control. If she isn't, then I'm sorry for stating that. But again, not about hatred. It's about pointing out hypocrisy. But I guess whenever anyone points out that you talk out of both sides of your mouth, it's easier to just label them as spreading hatred.

Mark - don't let him get you like that - tell him to post his source for her Pro-Contraception remark. And while you are at it inyurhed - find something to show that she isn't for abstinence only education (except apparently at home)

Here is a link showing that is is pro-contraception: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1837523_1837531_1837538,00.html

Specifically, the article states

She is Christian and pro-life, but also a supporter of birth control: she's a member of Feminists For Life (FFL), an anti-abortion, pro-contraception organization. In 2002, she wrote a letter to FFL stating that she had "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion."

can you not read today sm? i pointed it out in the prior post.

i'll even cut and paste the line for you again since you couldn't find it. the link is contained in the post to which i referred.

"see post 8.4 up the page aways. she's anti-abortion, PRO-contraceprion, and belongs to Feminists For Life, and organization which stand on those same beliefs."

and i never said she wasn't for abstinence only education. don't put words in my mouth. you discredit yourself further when you do.

That's not about hatred, TopJedi... that is about pointing out hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy: HOPE. CHANGE. Whatever...

As another Dem posted... "IT's PAYBACK!" - I think that goes straight to the heart of hypocrisy. Oh wait, HOPE. CHANGE. SMILE.

As another Dem posted..

More of the same: Blame all Obama supporters for a stray remark by one out of 50 million.

Feral - Thanks for posting that again - I will defer to your link on the contraception issue. I have three other sources that say otherwise but I would have to say that yours is probably more believable to me.

inyurhed - I did read your post but when I went up to 8.4 it wasn't there - actually - half the time I reload the page posts are missing today. That is why I asked for the source since I couldn't find it on the page.

Certainly nice having a dialogue with you inyurhed - just proves all the more that you are all over the place in your arguments and stick to your guns no matter what issues are put in front of you.

It appears some Dems (not James) have an over inflated concern with the sexual activity of politician's children.

Kerry: Look everybody, Cheney has a lesbian daughter :P

Obama camp: Look everybody, Palin's daughter is 5 months pregnant :P

I guess this is a sort of payback for Lewinski?! Yeah good one.

When did Democrats start worrying about sexual activity outside the white house?

These discussions are productive - you don't have to agree with all the posts. The great thing about debate and information is that the more to which you are exposed, the more you are challenged to form you own opinion as to what is spoon fed to you by the media. The important thing is for us to keep real discussion and debate alive. There is very little known about Governor Palin. These discussions are fruitful, in my opinion.

A very typical family situation in our great country and you really expect conservatives don't love their kids?? Nuts. Totally frantic poll frothing.

TJ, Thank you for your comment I agree 100%.

WTF I honestly could care less if her daughter is pregnant. I have never seen so many articles and columns about one women who over half of the people who have written, commented, and seeded had no clue who she was 5 days ago. Funny and sad.

Funny and sad.

What I think is funny and sad is the state to which our country has come, and the desperate nature of this election.

The reaction to Palin and her family is an indicator of how important this election is to the country. That is a good thing.

I agree. They can claim all they want that they knew about this before McCain picked her, but it's doubtful McCain's handlers would have let him make this pick in that case. Or perhaps it's McCain being a "maverick" again by purposely picking a VP candidate that would shoot huge holes in his candidacy? Either that or it's further proof he's gone senile.

Again the Funnel Syndrome - Wider for Obama and narrower for Barracuda.

How could they claim to have done so when he only started to consider her a month ago and had only be in contact with her twice

Well unlike 20 years ago everythiing is on computers and everything is on the internet, it is much easier to vet anybody, you can get their driving record, property records, health records, family tree, just about anything.

For a politician, even easier you have the state records (all public infornation) voting records, campaign disclosures filed with the state. It isnt hard to find and any reasonably competent person can find it if they know how to use a computer and do a records search.

And that brings up my point, 3 days every major media outlet, probaly spending overtime to paid staff trying to find something so they can break "The Big Story" and guess what nothing there.

I really have no doubt she was on the list prepared maybe a couple of months ago and researched by someon in the mcCain campaign.

Its not hard to vet anyone and nothing 'earthshattering" has come up.

Wow how refreshing, a politician who doesnt know influence peddlers and convicted felons, see what happens when you bring someone in who isnt a member of congress?

NMR8 -- If you think that the vetting process that VP candidates go through can be accomplished via an internet search -- you're insane. They contact EVERYONE and then they contact EVERYONE ELSE. They go through your life and contact people your contacts suggest they contact.

And they test your daughter to see if she is pregnant?

Also - it is possible that the people that did the vetting screwed up and made a goof. Wouldn't be the first time it has happened in pres politics.

Vetting is more than an Internet search; they should have talked to everyone; and a daughter who is 5 months pregnant knows she is pregnant and she should have been interviewed. Maybe she lied; it wouldn't be the first "family value" she violated.

That could be a whole different issue if they hid it from the McCain camp. Look for her to run home and "spend more time with her family" instead of running for VP - happens in the corporate world all the time - no reason it can't happen here.

They tried to blame Obama? Absolutely bizarre!

The actions of the child always reflect on the teachings of the parent. And in this case, the parent is the Republican VP nominee. I'm pretty sure Obama's grandmother isn't running for office.

HONEST??? Why wasn't this news made public when she took the job... why did she only come out once the rumor mill started???

Please, Republicans and Democrats, politicians are not HONEST!!!!!

I applaud her keeping the baby, only option in my book... but please stop trying to say that just bc they belong to a certain party they are no HONEST, MORAL people...

they are public servants trying to please the masses.... they will LIE, CHEAT and STEAL to get what they want.... BOTH SIDES....

its up to us to decide whoes lying we can put up with better!

Exactly why would someone need to tell anyone about their daughter's pregnancy to run for office? And the pregnancy reflects on the mother's teaching how?? About what?

Susan, you obviously see the world through republican colored glasses. If you say it, then that makes it so. The answers to your questions are so obvious they don't warrant actual answers. And I don't even care that the child is pregnant.

Susan C: Exactly why would someone need to tell anyone about their daughter's pregnancy to run for office? And the pregnancy reflects on the mother's teaching how?? About what?

Ordinarily, I'd agree that a minor child's personal matters should be out of bounds for public scrutiny. What makes Palin's case different is that she advocates outlawing a woman's choice on how to handle an unwanted pregnancy, and Palin pushes the failed abstinence philosophy. Her own daughter has proved (as if we needed more proof) that Just Say No To Sex doesn't work. This is the reflection on "the mother's teaching."

Palin's family exercised the right to deal with an unexpected pregnancy in the way they saw fit. In fact, Palin said Bristol made the decision herself to keep her baby. Good for her, I hope it works out well for all involved. This same right to choose should remain available for every woman in this country. But Palin would do her best to revoke that right.

That's why her daughter's pregnancy is a public issue.

if you have a functioning brain. You would understand the Abstinence reasoning. You give young kids Birth Control, be it pills, or condoms they find sleeping around a lot easier and do not think about the chances of getting all the sexual transmitted deseases.

She believes in birth control in adults.

If you have a functioning brain, you'd do the research and discover that abstinence only education doesn't prevent kids from sleeping around.

I understand that education is also needed, but it is up to the families to teach their children not the school system. It is not up to the schools to do anything but teach education to our children. I know kids who have gotten pregnant on birth control. Abstinence is the best answer. The hardest part is getting the kids to practice abstinence. Pregnancy is bad, but then so it STD. and birth control does not prevent that.

as far as i know, there is only one documented case in all of man's history on the planet, where abstinence didn't work...

Well, that indeed was a miracle my friend.

Still, I'd respect her more if she conceded that this time, at any rate, abstinence-only education did not work.

There's still no evidence that this girl was taught abstinence only.

No one knows that, and people should stop assuming it.

But we do know it. It's a cornerstone of Sarah's belief structure in terms of education and it's what is fundamentally taught throughout Alaska's public school system.

Therefore, it's what she hears at school and at home. Abstinence only...case closed.

Actually if you look it up, you can see that she said that she would only support sex education that teaches abstinence. Look up abstinence-only education and her views on it.

Emperor of Ice Cream, I follow candidates closely, particularly their stance on education. Both McCain and Palin are advocates for abstinence only sex education programs, much in line with Bush. It's a policy that is ridiculously outdated and regularly uses scare tactics in the hopes that teens won't have sex.

So yes, I am claiming to know Palin's "belief structure" regardless of when I heard of her. Doesn't take long to look up a candidate's education policy.

Thanks for the backup, afrocentric_soul

You don't read anybody's posts, do you?

Palin has made it a point to make her belief structure common knowledge. You'd know if you attempted to look for it. Continuously asking me if I know her belief structure is redundant. Especially considering your argument has been refuted and you have offered nothing additional to discuss.

Ice Cream seems to think that you should ignore what people say about their beliefs and give them the benefit of the doubt on the matter.

Condescending, sure.

Presumptuous? not at all. your comments lay it all out there.

I am not talking about anything but what you apparently believe based on your comments.

Did I say I know you? no, I said I inferred an aspect of you from what you said. I don't care who the heck is on the other side of your comments. the persona you are displaying believes what I wrote based on what you have written.

Still avoiding the issues by refusing to add additional insight to the discussion. I gave you the facts on Palin's education policy which is easily researched and you choose to ignore the statements and focus on calling posters presumptuous and sarcastically all knowing.

Interesting... (see, I can do it too) :)

Do you think with any amount of observation we can know anything?

I find it easier to take people at their word until they are proven to be a liar. You must have to vet everything anyone says to you, thus the form of many of your posts.

Just the obstinate and annoying people.

But we do know it. It's a cornerstone of Sarah's belief structure in terms of education and it's what is fundamentally taught throughout Alaska's public school system.

Therefore, it's what she hears at school and at home. Abstinence only...case closed.

Captain Obvious,

What's obvious , Captain Obvious, is that you don't have a freaking clue, read artilce linked:

Palin: What She Isn't and What She Is

You need to comment based on facts, and not your unimformed fantasies (or post outright lies).

Okay, jazzman -- her stance on abstinence-only:

Alaska: 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire (Including Palin's Stance on Abstinence Only Education)

You going to admit you're wrong on this issue, at some point?

Just the obstinate and annoying people.

Thank you Behind My Screen. From someone with a bit more 'empirical observation.'

One more thing: history is not destiny. Science does not have every answer.

The actual response was that she would NOT support explicit sex-ed. She is a memebr of a pro-life and pro cnontraceptives organization.............

3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

BKER

She is not a member of a pro contraceptive organization. Feminists For Life, is pro life but it has no position on contraception. It has members with varying beliefs where contraception is concerned.

I'm a mother and I oppose the idea of schools handing out contraceptives. That's not the job of schools!

next you're gonna try to tell us it's not their job to explicitly teach the kids how to have sex? c'mon, hana....what planet are you living on? ;)

maybe next we can have the schools teach our kids how to properly hit the crack pipe, or maybe mainline heroin?

Hana32,
I am a father and I also oppose schools having anything to do with my kids and sex or contraceptives.

thats just the problem... they tried to present themselves as HOLIER THAN THOU people... and reality smacked them in the face!!!

Why didn't she announce this from the get go? Instead of waiting to debunk rumors... or better yet, why put your daughter through this...

I am sorry... I am not for getting married just bc you are knocked up!!!! THOPSE DO NOT WORK... and the odds of it failing are even higher when you are still a kid!!!! Marriage is supposed to be entered into by 2 people who love each other.... thats why we have 50% of the country divorced... people eneter into sooooo lightly!!!!!

Why didn't she announce this from the get go? Instead of waiting to debunk rumors... or better yet, why put your daughter through this...

How in the world could she do that without making the focus of her announcement as the GOP VP candidate about her 17 year old daughter. Hi, I am Sarah Palin. This is my pregnant daughter Bristol who will make me a grandmother shortly? With a daughter who is 5 months pregnant, there is no way to have concealed the pregnancy visually or in any other manner. She announced it on the first business day, the first day of the GOP convention preceding her nomination to the party. She announced it early enough in the day so that it received media attention in the news cycles (not like a Friday afternoon announcement of a previously denied affair). She certainly had to have a conversation with her family about this. This is clearly not the type of thing anyone would think they could keep secret.

supposed to be entered into by 2 people who love each other

I guarantee that if you ask Bristol she will gush and say that they are in love, I am also willing to bet they can't wait to get married and begin to "play house". They are 17 and will now have to learn many lessons the hard way.

I feel for these kids, they will need the love and support not only from their parents, but also from their community-- if the majority of the posters here are representative of a community, these kids are in real trouble.

You wonder what is wrong with America--LOOK in the Mirror!