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MEYRIN, Switzerland - In the beginning was the big bang.
God may have been around before then — but as far as scientists are concerned, the big bang is as far back as they can go. And to get back there, they're getting ready to blast subatomic particles so energetically that the extreme conditions of the freshly born universe will be re-created on Earth.
Will those "little big bangs" crack age-old scientific mysteries? Or, despite repeated assurances from the world's top experts, will they create black holes that could gobble up the planet? After decades of preparation, scientists are finally switching on a machine that will separate the facts from what is plainly science fiction.
The machine is the $10 billion Large Hadron Collider, or LHC — the most powerful, most expensive particle-blaster ever invented. On Wednesday, Europe's CERN particle-physics lab is due to start shooting beams of protons through the LHC's 17-mile-round (27-kilometer-round) ring of tunnels beneath the French-Swiss border, near Geneva.
It will take months for the machine to reach full power. But eventually, those protons will be whipped up to 99.999999 percent of the speed of light, slamming together with the energy of two bullet trains colliding head-on. Underground detectors as big as cathedrals will track the subatomic wreckage on a time scale of billionths of a second. Billions of bits of data will be sent out every second for analysis.
As big as the numbers surrounding the LHC are, the mysteries it was built to address are bigger:
"The LHC is the most powerful microscope that's ever been built," said John Ellis, a theoretical physicist here at CERN. "It will be able to explore the inner structure of matter on a scale that is 10 times smaller than anyone's been able to do before."
Ellis said the LHC also serves as "the most powerful telescope ever built," even though it looks inward rather than outward.
"We know that the way elementary particles interacted with each other controlled the very early universe," he explained. "So with the LHC we are able to, in some sense, re-create the conditions that existed in the universe when it was just a fraction of a second old — the sort of thing that the optical telescopes just can't see."
What's the point?
Past experiments in particle physics have yielded scores of practical spin-offs, ranging from new medical therapies to high-tech industrial materials — and even the World Wide Web, which you're using to read this report. But the potential for spin-offs isn't why more than 10,000 researchers around the world are looking forward so anxiously to the LHC.
"People ever since the ancient Greeks – and probably a long time before that – have wanted to understand how matter is made up, how it behaves, where the universe comes from,” said Ellis, surrounded in his office by stacks of research papers. “And so we are responding to that continuing human urge.”
The quest is not without controversy: Scientists say there's a chance that the LHC could create microscopic black holes, a phenomenon never before observed on Earth. They hasten to add that the tiny singularities will instantly pop out of existence, but that hasn't stopped critics from trying to block the collider's startup. Two of the critics have filed suit in federal court in Hawaii, seeking the suspension of LHC operations until more studies are done.
Responding to the critics, CERN has issued a series of reports explaining why the LHC will pose no threat. Ellis was one of the report's authors. "If the LHC were to make microscopic black holes, it would be tremendously exciting — and no danger," he said.
The 62-year-old London native has spent more than half his life at CERN, delving into topics ranging from dark matter to the theory of everything. Once the LHC is up and running, he expects to find out whether the theories he and other physicists have developed over all those years lead to solid evidence — or lead to a scientific dead end.
“Theoretically, that would be the most interesting possibility, because it would really mean that we had to tear up our notebooks of the last 45 years and start more or less from scratch,” Ellis said.
The God Particle
The theory described in all those notebooks is known as the Standard Model, which ranks among the scientific world's most successful theories. The Standard Model lays out a menagerie of subatomic particles and their interactions — and provides the basis for inventions ranging from television sets to microwave ovens to nuclear bombs.
Only one elementary particle predicted by the Standard Model has not yet been detected: the Higgs boson, which is thought to interact with other particles to give them mass. Without the Higgs, the big bang might have been an insubstantial flash in the pan — all energy, and no mass. Or so the theory goes.
The elusive Higgs boson looms so large as a gap in the Standard Model that Nobel-winning physicist Leon Lederman wrote a book about it called "The God Particle." (He joked that he wanted to call it the "Goddamn Particle," but his editor wouldn't let him.)
"This is in some sense the holy grail of particle physics, to find this missing link in the Standard Model," Ellis said. "So that's one thing that we're really looking forward to with the LHC. In fact, back when we persuaded the politicians to stump up the money to build the thing, that's probably what we told them."
Not even the LHC will be able to spot the Higgs boson directly. Instead, physicists will have to infer its existence through an analysis of the other particles that should be created when it decays. It's not an easy task, but Ellis believes the evidence should turn up within a year or two of the machine's startup.
Even that won't mark the end of the quest. Ellis compared the Higgs boson to a doorway that should lead beyond the Standard Model.
"I don't think that the Higgs door, if you like, is just closing off the room, and there is nothing beyond," he said. "I believe there's going to be a lot more physics beyond. What it's going to be, I don't know. Maybe it's supersymmetry. Maybe space has additional dimensions. Maybe it's something that we haven't thought of yet. I certainly hope it's something we haven't thought of yet. It would be great to come across a real surprise."
But Ellis and his colleagues at CERN have two nagging concerns in the back of their minds: What if somebody else finds the magic door first? Or what if they spent all these billions of dollars and there's no Higgs particle at all?
A competitive twist
Fifteen years ago, when Leon Lederman wrote "The God Particle," he thought the Higgs boson would be found in the Superconducting Super Collider, a project that was just getting started in Texas. That machine would have been four times as powerful as the LHC — but when the costs started running far beyond the initial estimates, Congress killed the program.
Over the decade that followed, U.S. scientists weren't just waiting for the LHC to be built: The focus shifted to the Tevatron collider at Fermilab in Illinois, which theorists figured might have just enough punch to pick up the Higgs' trail.
Last year, researchers at Fermilab passed the word that they had found some interesting data — readings that hinted at the presence of the Higgs but weren't yet solid enough to publish. That added a competitive twist to the grail quest.
"The longer we wait, the higher the probability that Fermilab discovers something that we wouldn't mind discovering ourselves here," Jos Engelen, CERN's chief scientific officer and deputy director general, said last year.
Beyond the God Particle
What if physicists don't find the God Particle they are expecting to see? Ellis acknowledged that was a possibility. "This might be a little bit difficult to explain to our politicians, that here they gave us 10 billion of whatever, your favorite currency unit, and we didn't find the Higgs boson," he said.
But Ellis has faith that even then, there'd be something to discover — maybe something even weirder and more wonderful than the Higgs boson.
"Probably the most likely option then might be extra dimensions," Ellis said. "And there are some ideas where if you have some additional dimensions of space, you could somehow do the job that the Higgs does in the Standard Model."
For years, string theorists have noted that their equations come out better if they assume that the universe has nine or 10 spatial dimensions instead of the three we can perceive. The LHC could provide the first evidence of those extra dimensions: Some theorists say the collisions could produce anomalously heavy particles, suggesting that part of their momentum was going into the extradimensional realm. Harvard physicist Lisa Randall estimates that the LHC could nail down the evidence for extra dimensions in five years.
Other theorists have focused on the idea that every subatomic particle should have an as-yet-undetected "supersymmetric" partner that mirrors many of the characteristics of the particles we know, but is dramatically different in other respects. The partners would have greater masses and a different spin, for example.
To date, no actual evidence of supersymmetry has been found. But if supersymmetric particles don't exist, then a lot of the theories that look beyond the Standard Model would have to be thrown out.
If supersymmetric particles do exist, they could account for a large part of the universe's dark matter. That's the 90 percent of all matter that scientists can detect only by its gravitational effect — a puzzle that has bedeviled astronomers for decades. "There are good reasons to think that these dark matter particles, if they exist, will be observable in the LHC," Ellis said.
Exploring the big-bang frontier
One of the LHC's detectors, known as ALICE, is devoted to studying the stuff that the universe was made of less than a billionth of a second after the big bang. Earlier experiments have hinted that the stuff was a super-hot liquid consisting of subatomic particles known as quarks and gluons.
For one month out of every year, the LHC will switch from smashing protons to smashing heavy lead ions, in an effort to re-create that quark-gluon soup and let ALICE analyze the recipe.
Yet another detector, LHCb, will study the tracks of particles containing specific types of quarks and antiquarks. The Standard Model predicts that equal amounts of matter and antimatter should have been produced in the big bang — but today, we see hardly any antimatter in nature. That's a good thing, because matter and antimatter annihilate each other when they come in contact, leaving pure energy behind.
LHCb will follow up on earlier experiments that suggest matter won out over antimatter because they somehow decay in different ways.
And then there are the wild cards in the deck: Could the LHC really create black holes or exotic forms of matter? What about all these claims that the world is in peril?
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 | Today is not Hadron Collider Day - Apocalypse to follow shortly | The Register (UK) | Wed Sep 10 | 32 |
 | Boon or doom? Collider stirs debate | Associated Press | Mon Sep 8 | 808 |
| Biggest ‘Big Bang Machine’ switched on | Associated Press | Wed Sep 10 | 101 |
| Higgs and Hawking Head to Head | The Register | The Register (UK) | Thu Sep 11 | 7 |
| The English Translation: What is the "God Particle"? | Danny McGee | Mon Sep 8 | 18 |
- Public Discussion (251)
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9.2
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{"commentId":2822686,"authorDomain":"tobucks"}
Playing God isn't Cool. Time to put the brakes on these so called "EXPERTS!"
{"commentId":2822686,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"tobucks"}
- 1 vote
#1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:07 PM EDT{"commentId":2824507,"authorDomain":"danwill2"}
have we created something from nothing just by saying "let it be so"?. no
therefore we are not playing god, case closed, next question.
{"commentId":2824507,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"danwill2"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2824939,"authorDomain":"tdg-1"}
If God had 'tended man to go to the moon, he'd'a guv'm brains 'stead'a pick-up trucks!
{"commentId":2824939,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"tdg-1"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2825066,"authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
It is playing God because they are hoping to come up with the data to prove the big bang theory which is in direct opposition to the Creation Theory. They are trying to prove that there needn't be a God to do what man just did (or thinks he can do). And if they can prove that and collect data to further prove it, then it sheds (so they think) a whole new light on the idea that God was able to create everything.
{"commentId":2825066,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2826620,"authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
Tobucks
I'm very sorry to remind you that we are hard wired to seek after knowledge, wherever it may lead us. You may spend your time wringing fearful hands at our continuing search for whatever we may know about ongoing creation and it won't change a thing. Your fear makes you miserable. Try to find some wonder in it all. You'll be glad you did.
{"commentId":2826620,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2826726,"authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
Have you never stopped to consider the possibility of God causing what we refer to as the Big Bang or are you so close-minded that you refuse to think for yourself and only believe what you are told? Look at it this way, matter can neither be created nor destroyed which leaves us with one very simple question: Where did all of the matter which our universe is comprised of come from? Even some of the more devout Atheists within the scientific community have given creedance to the idea that there was some form of higher being (call him God or whatever you will) and that this being quiet possibly is the responsible party. There is absolutely nothing wrong with mankind wanting to discover and come to understand the world around him. God (or however you want to explain the reason you have come to exist) made mankind naturally curious. It is that curiosity that drives us to question what we don't know and motivates us to find answers. If you don't like it, you can always go back to your herd of mindless sheep.
{"commentId":2826726,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2826943,"authorDomain":"hoganhut"}
Well, we can't create something from nothing. We always start with something that was created as part of a Grand Design!
{"commentId":2826943,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"hoganhut"}
{"commentId":2826969,"authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
You are right.... If GOD made things so easy, we wouldn't question or be curious would we. GOD bless you!
Shawn
{"commentId":2826969,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
{"commentId":2841940,"authorDomain":"danwill2"}
happymammof2, you really have no idea of what this is about, do you?
You just figure that "those evil scientists" are a threat to your cherished beliefs. which is not true, you can continue to believe whatever you want, just don't try to shove your religion down MY throat, or try to legislate your interpretation of the bible into MY school.
Yeah,yeah, scientists are followers of the devil, right?
Hey it worked for the inquisition, and if was good enough for them I guess it's good enough for you.
{"commentId":2841940,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"danwill2"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2843029,"authorDomain":"go-google"}
Ezra wake up!
there is no god. thankfully these experiments will prove your nonesense wrong.
Now if we could only start working on getting the fundamentalists out of jerusalem we can start working on world peace.
{"commentId":2843029,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"go-google"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":8693276,"authorDomain":"brianfancher"}
this thing is powerful enough to disrupt our shieldaround earth ! an what ever who knows ,pull down satellites?? all this money ,time ,effort is spent on a few people's ideal . if anything ,,they will make another kind of bomb out of it ! it was a small problem before an is taking forever to fix . a bigger problem , might not be able to be fixed .. well , 2012 is called D day . about when they plan on fireing this thing up ,,,, isnt it ????
{"commentId":8693276,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"brianfancher"}
{"commentId":10834815,"authorDomain":"paintfumes"}
{"commentId":10856850,"authorDomain":"sunblocker"}
we've got those chasing rainbows, those chasing atoms and those searching for GOD..whata Bizarre World !!..thank GOD particles, we all are not of the deep blue sea..Life is so interesting....
{"commentId":10856850,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"sunblocker"}
{"commentId":2822996,"authorDomain":"henry3730"}
Yup. Playing God isn't cool. If we had followed that philsophy, today's medical science would still consist of waving feathers and rattling gourds over the patient. Since prolonging life (through effecting cures, via medication or surgery) would also be "playing God."
{"commentId":2822996,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"henry3730"}
- 2 votes
#2 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:20 PM EDT{"commentId":2823025,"authorDomain":"jennybenny1"}
My question is; why don't they do this out in space? Doesn't seem like they have put in any safety measures. If the unknown is that great why don't they let the whole world weigh in.
{"commentId":2823025,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"jennybenny1"}
#3 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:21 PM EDT{"commentId":2823245,"authorDomain":"viperlover22000"}
Where is Fred Phelps when you need him?
He could be protesting it.
The collider is probably gay anyway.
{"commentId":2823245,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"viperlover22000"}
#4 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:28 PM EDT{"commentId":2823393,"authorDomain":"chetti61"}
Does God have a Large Hadron Collider too? If not, how are these people playing God? Or, is your argument that God is a nuclear physicist, and only he or she should be allowed to play with sub atomic particles? What if we found out that God was a race car driver? Would NASCAR be blasphemous?
{"commentId":2823393,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chetti61"}
#5 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:35 PM EDT{"commentId":3047475,"authorDomain":"rlaneaz"}
Who is God? Does he own the deli on 46th Street?
{"commentId":3047475,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"rlaneaz"}
{"commentId":2823519,"authorDomain":"fundiesniffer01"}
its about frickin time they start explaining the big bang and so on so we can finally rid ourselves of this thing called religion. We do not need christianity or of that sort to explain where we come from. It is just a matter of time till the scientists figure it out and christianity goes away...FOREVER!
{"commentId":2823519,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"fundiesniffer01"}
- 4 votes
#6 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:39 PM EDT{"commentId":2824082,"authorDomain":"chadprice5469"}
im behind that 100 percent brother ! its amazing to me that our human race can even comprohend much less recreate this @!$%#! It pisses me off when these ppl out here dont understand common science and denounce somethin so special
{"commentId":2824082,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chadprice5469"}
{"commentId":2824736,"authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
YOU may not need Christianity to describe our beginnings. You have all the rights in the world to believe that the big bang actually happened, just as I believe God was the ONLY Creator. Even if this proves something, there will always be that nagging question, "what was before.....". Colliding particles will only bring on more questioning, and will ultimately lead to man's destruction. Christianity will never fade away, fundiefinder. It has always survived the people who tried to kill it off and this will be no different. There will always be those of us who know the truth that pray for those that don't.
{"commentId":2824736,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2825013,"authorDomain":"bhatgirl"}
There are belief systems (religion if you prefer) that are older than Christianity and they do not appear to be going away.
Even if "religion" as a belief system went away forever, humans, will create other belief systems to explain, justify, divide or oppress other humans.
{"commentId":2825013,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"bhatgirl"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2826712,"authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
Desertgirl
How correct you are, I feel. God and religion have demonstrated their incompatibility throughout history. Seeking after seems so much more user friendly.
{"commentId":2826712,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
{"commentId":2826828,"authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
Fat chance of that fundi.... WE WILL all meet our maker whether we like it or not! Where do you really think "feelings" came from (monkeys?) Can you explain Love, Hate, Sadness, Joy, ect.? Just look up and have "faith" ( definition in the Dictionary).. GOD bless you!
Shawn
{"commentId":2826828,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
{"commentId":2829108,"authorDomain":"dmccreedy"}
Fundi - what next are you going to decide is not good for "WE". If you choose not to believe in god - that's your choice. The more we learn about how intricate our universe is the more I am convinced that god does exist. I have to laugh when our all knowing and all seeing scientists decide that god doesn't exist, until I realize that aren't these the same guys that also figured out that we were little more than apes until a very very very short while ago. And now they know it all!!! How arrogant, and simple they are. What silly little ant-men. God is a very complex entity and S(he) or it is probably nothing like humans have envisioned him. I think we are going to find that god and the universe are far more complex than we can even imagine right now. I expect that our universe , like stars and galaxies, is one of many billions of universes. I think there is going to be a lot of very surprised people when they find out the real extent of god and the all inclusive universe. It's going to blow their minds.
{"commentId":2829108,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"dmccreedy"}
{"commentId":2823554,"authorDomain":"zarkdnl"}
It is totally safe! No mention of that in the article. Just bend over and put your head between your legs.
Kiss your buns goodbye. Sort of like a nuclear explosion or an airplane crash, accept exponientially
more powerful.
"Strange is our Situation Here Upon Earth" "All our lauded technological progress -- or very
civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological crimmal." "Force always attracts men of
low morality, and I believe it to be an invariable rule that tyrants of genius are succeeded by
scoundrels." "The faster you go, the shorter you are."
----Albert Einstein
{"commentId":2823554,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"zarkdnl"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:40 PM EDT{"commentId":2824008,"authorDomain":"robbie-phelps"}
WOW!...Scientists that think they are smarter than God....Scientists were not around during this "big bang" and recorded history only goes back as far as the Bible does. Why can we not just have faith in Jesus and His teachings. I would say to whoever funded this: Put your faith in Jesus and use your money to feed the hungry around the world.
Robbie Phelps
robbie.phelps@mercer.kyschools.us
{"commentId":2824008,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"robbie-phelps"}
- 1 vote
#8 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:54 PM EDT{"commentId":2824275,"authorDomain":"chadprice5469"}
dude are u serious!? u mean to tell me that all the scientist in this world the very ppl that have gave us all these technological advancments r wrong ?! there may b a greater being or god , but u cant deny all the science. Im no genius but i guess ur just not smart enough to understand that the earth is over 4 bilion years old and im sorry adam and eve didnt talk to snakes .
{"commentId":2824275,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chadprice5469"}
{"commentId":2825103,"authorDomain":"danwill2"}
Sorry robbie, your comment only proves the depth of your ignorance on the subject matter, next.
{"commentId":2825103,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"danwill2"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2826881,"authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
Robbie
Nor were you around when the bible was composed. As to your inaccurate view of recorded history Confucius, for example, articulated the first expression of the golden rule about six centuries before Christ and equally long before your bible had a gleam of the concept.
Your fear of God is shameful and demeaning to all of us made in the evolving image of God. Your religion will go extinct just as most others have.
{"commentId":2826881,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2826962,"authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
I fail to see how in any way this would leave you to believe that scientists think themselves more intelligent than God. Even more humorous to think that the vast majority of Christians believe God to be an infallible, perfect being. I don't recall the specific verses but I'd like to bring to your attention the instance in the Bible where God repented for having leveled a city (killing every living thing within) with fire. There is another instance where he voices his regret in having created mankind (I believe this one had something to do with flooding the earth.) And why, WHY is it everytime some ignorant prat mutters something about mankind blowing up the earth the Christian community get all riled up and start panicking. If you are so devout in your faith, what do you really have to be so afraid of? Like Danwill said, you are obviously ignorant on the subject matter. Go preach your mindless banter to your flock of mindless sheep.
{"commentId":2826962,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":3047603,"authorDomain":"rlaneaz"}
The bible was written to explain the world as seen through the eyes of people who lived thousands of years ago.........they had no idea of what would be happening now. One who believes the bible is the actual account of history and science is a fool.
{"commentId":3047603,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"rlaneaz"}
{"commentId":2824113,"authorDomain":"chetti61"}
Kaneala... Do you drive a car? Is it a special car that's totally safe? Or, do you accept that some degree of danger is an acceptable trade for the overwhelming benefits.
{"commentId":2824113,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chetti61"}
#9 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:57 PM EDT{"commentId":2824229,"authorDomain":"chetti61"}
Can anyone else detect the hypocrisy of people arguing against science via the Internet.
{"commentId":2824229,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chetti61"}
#10 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:01 PM EDT{"commentId":2826914,"authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
Chetti61
Please explain.
{"commentId":2826914,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
{"commentId":2842185,"authorDomain":"danwill2"}
jw welch, It's simple enough, Science (quantum physics) is what the made the transistor, the microprocessor, etc. possible. IE no science=no internet.
{"commentId":2842185,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"danwill2"}
{"commentId":2824241,"authorDomain":"dsherbourne"}
10 million dollars and thousands of man hours, but the first time it happened by accident?
{"commentId":2824241,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"dsherbourne"}
- 2 votes
#11 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:01 PM EDT{"commentId":2824952,"authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
Amen!!!!!!!
All that money could have been used for something better, like feeding the poor, housing the homeless, finding a cure for cancer or AIDS...
In all this time over centuries, man has spent oodles of money and manpower and thought to do one better than God. Or even to try disprove the existance of God. What do they come up with? More questions, no answers, and nothing concrete. Always another loop-hole with nothing to deny without question, His existance. What a sad path these people are on.
{"commentId":2824952,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
{"commentId":2825647,"authorDomain":"nightshade-1"}
If you can't see how this will lend itself to advancing medical technology, then you know nothing about current medical technology (and it's origins), nor do you even have a basic grasp of science.
I never understood posting on boards where you have no concept of the subject.
{"commentId":2825647,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nightshade-1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2827007,"authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
10 billion dollars actually. And as far as an accident is concerned, like I posted above. Have you ever stopped to give thought to the idea that perhaps it was God that started the Big Bang and thus the universe?
{"commentId":2827007,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2827499,"authorDomain":"qudrcps"}
10 Billions Dollars - amazingly huge amount!!! (also equal to 1.5 months of the initial "Emergency Appropriation" to fight the Iraq war...)
{"commentId":2827499,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"qudrcps"}
{"commentId":2862114,"authorDomain":"foleys6905"}
I completely agree!! Are people so ignorant (or selfish) not to notice that there are people starving all over the world, dying from diseases that have no cure and ones that have no place to lay their heads at night. Lets put our money and efforts towards fixing the problems at hand instead worrying about "what might be" and trying to create more problems!
{"commentId":2862114,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"foleys6905"}
{"commentId":10821602,"authorDomain":"rwr-1"}
nfoley - do you not see that research such as this is the reason that we even have medicines to cure the diseases that we have cured, or provide advances to allow the feeding of people who live thousands of miles away, or provide the materials to build shelters for people without cutting down every tree on earth? What we can do now is the product of prior research - people who are helped now are beneficiaries of that research. Further research will provide further advances to help even more in the future. The world's needy will never be completely taken care of - not because of this money being spent on research; but because of the majority of humanity is more concerned with their personal comforts than that of the world at large. So instead of ranting at the expenditure used to provide research that will ultimately benefit millions - why not use your energies and monies to do something concrete yourself?
{"commentId":10821602,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"rwr-1"}
{"commentId":2824253,"authorDomain":"kesejo"}
no big deal.... we just playing with matches
the energy in these colliders is so infinite small compare with
the big bang
{"commentId":2824253,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"kesejo"}
#12 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:01 PM EDT{"commentId":2824416,"authorDomain":"chadprice5469"}
It astounds me at the number of ppl that dont understand or even try to understand the simple FACTS of nature . To say this is bs or that its playin god is ignorant, when they prove all this ppl are goin to feel real stupid
{"commentId":2824416,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chadprice5469"}
#13 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:07 PM EDT{"commentId":2824602,"authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
Well, although 'trying' to play God isn't cool, anyone who is able to understand the Bible knows that they wont be able to do it, nor will they destroy the planet with whatever they come up with. Only God has that capability, and even He has said it will never happen.
However, I did read an article where one of the scientists stated that nothing would happen for at least 4 years. Oddly, that coincides with the doomsday prophecies of the Mayan Calendar. Maybe they knew something we didn't!
Time will tell. I doubt anything will come about from this because no one was here during the supposed 'big bang', therefore, any information they have is just hypothetical at this point.
{"commentId":2824602,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"happymammaof2"}
- 1 vote
#14 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:12 PM EDT{"commentId":2827078,"authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
That is a very interesting observation. I've read a good bit about the whole matter revolving around the Mayan calendar. I couldn't honestly say that I truly believe that everything the predicted to occur, but nevertheless it is really interesting to read about. Personally, I'm just as excited about that particular event than I was about Y2K (before I wisened up and realized it was perhaps one of the greatest shams in human history.) =)
{"commentId":2827078,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2824670,"authorDomain":"rgray07"}
The big bang. How stupid can you get. Here's how it went. God spoke and the earth was. Simple. Everything else was spoke by God. He did it in seven days. Scientist still can't do it and will never do it. Why? They not God. Whoever believes in the bang is lost.
{"commentId":2824670,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"rgray07"}
- 1 vote
#15 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:15 PM EDT{"commentId":2825771,"authorDomain":"nightshade-1"}
Your argument would have more merit if you understood partial physics or science in general. Also try to string together a cogent sentence when formulating an argument if you want anyone to give it merit.
Why post on a board when you have no knowledge of the subject?
{"commentId":2825771,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nightshade-1"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":2827012,"authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
Randy
Try not to think big thoughts, but let me help you out. Perhaps the Big Bang was the voice of God speaking.
Get it?
{"commentId":2827012,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"JWWSU"}
{"commentId":10821664,"authorDomain":"rwr-1"}
Randy, your comments shows your ignorance in the Bible as well as physics.
{"commentId":10821664,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"rwr-1"}
{"commentId":2824712,"authorDomain":"fireaiys"}
Doesn't really matter to me personally what they do..it isn't exactly like a common every day person can do anything to stop any of this kind of thing...all I can say is if it blows up the world, I am ready to go...JESUS CHRIST is my Savior and the only thing that matters in this world...I am not ashamed of HIM, proclaim HIM and when the end comes, I will be happy and with HIM.
{"commentId":2824712,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"fireaiys"}
- 2 votes
#16 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:16 PM EDT{"commentId":2826296,"authorDomain":"chasmstack"}
Right On randy and everwhat. I am your brother in Christ. I also believe God does have a sense of humor and will at least chuckle at this. Take Care God Bless and see you at the Rapture!
{"commentId":2826296,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"chasmstack"}
{"commentId":2829684,"authorDomain":"henry3730"}
Sorry friend, our LIBERALS AND CORRUPT POLITICIANS are doing a far better job of destroying our civilization AND our planet. Your kind of nonsense was undoubtedly spouted when the first Caveman saw a fire started by a lightning strike. . . and decided to COOK his portion of the dead mastodon his people were sharing. You personally may not directly benefit from the knowledge gleaned by this research instrument, but who is to say the long-term benefits may well outweigh the dollar cost.
Atomic energy and electromagnetic radiation of all types can very definitely be harmful to human beings. . . yet think how many human beings get cured of cancer by radiation therapy?
{"commentId":2829684,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"henry3730"}
{"commentId":2824764,"authorDomain":"pencon61"}
The real answer to their question is who gives a shyte?To waste that amount of money on something so pointless is mind boggling . Gotta give the nerds their mega expensive toys . It's these type of eggheads who are going to cause the destruction of the entire planet and they should be beaten in advance
{"commentId":2824764,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"pencon61"}
#17 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:18 PM EDT{"commentId":2825083,"authorDomain":"kesejo"}
mr sense u do have no sense!
all that money create jobs.. the same with those satellites in space u don't know how many people
are involve in those projects even if they blow up.
still the economy is been helped ..
{"commentId":2825083,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"kesejo"}
{"commentId":2825222,"authorDomain":"bhatgirl"}
While I think the origins of "everything" is interesting from a philosophical pov, I happen to agree with much of your post.
At this time, considering all the problems present in a world of finite resources, it does seem pointless to spend billions on projects that seem to have no practical application to those problems.
{"commentId":2825222,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"bhatgirl"}
{"commentId":2827110,"authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
It is also these types of nerds who have given you the computer and internet that you are using to post your ignorant opinion on/with.
{"commentId":2827110,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2824892,"authorDomain":"Isshinryu"}
{"commentId":2824979,"authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
WHAT A WAIST OF MONEY!!! SHAME ON ALL OF YOU TO TRY AND "CREATE" WHAT SCIENCE BELIEVES... IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE MEANING OF "FAITH" THEN LOOK IT UP.... IMAGINE ALL THE MOUTHS YOU COULD HAVE FED WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ( MAYBE OURS ie: TAXES). GO LEARN HOW TO GROW FOOD IN A DESERT OR SOMETHING USEFUL...... OH YEA! GOD BLESS YOU ALL :) SHAWN
{"commentId":2824979,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
#19 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:24 PM EDT{"commentId":2825217,"authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
GROW UP HUMANS!!!! FEED THE POOR,DON'T WAIST MONEY MORONS!!!!! IT'S OUR TAX MONEY I SAY QUIT PAYING ANY TAXES AND GO BACK TO BARTER.... GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU!!!
SHAWN
{"commentId":2825217,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"poolman-12983"}
#20 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:31 PM EDT{"commentId":2856075,"authorDomain":"mb7476"}
Perhaps a new, clean and inexpensive energy source will be developed based on this technology or its discoveries. Don't underestimate the benefits that technology brings. Medical advances that could treat cancer could be developed directly as a result of this research. How many millions of lives would that help?
Bartering instead of paying taxes wouldn't permit the government services you rely on to exist...maintenance of roads and hospitals, military to defend against aggressors, healthcare, food production for billions of people. by the way, what product do you create that enough people would want to barter with you so you could keep a roof over your head and food on the table? What government entity will assure that justice is maintained in society.
So although you have the OPINION that people who support funding for scientific ressearch are morons, you actually PROVE that you are a moron in your denunciation of taxes. That would result in anarchy.
{"commentId":2856075,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"mb7476"}
{"commentId":2825293,"authorDomain":"mg-cover"}
God created the Universe and the sun and caused the galexies to rotate.
Genesis 1:1-5 (NIV)
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
* catholic means "universal" and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church.
The Three Universal or Ecumenical Creeds
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried. And the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures and ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He will come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead, whose kingdom will have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And I believe in one holy Christian and apostolic Church, I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
The Creed of Athanasius
Written against the Arians.
Whoever desires to be saved must, above all, hold the catholic faith.
Whoever does not keep it whole and undefiled will without doubt perish eternally.
And the catholic faith is this,
that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Holy Spirit is another.
But the Godhead of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit:
the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated;
the Father infinite, the Son infinite, the Holy Spirit infinite;
the Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal.
And yet there are not three Eternals, but one Eternal,
just as there are not three Uncreated or three Infinites, but one Uncreated and one Infinite.
In the same way, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, the Holy Spirit almighty;
and yet there are not three Almighties but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God;
and yet there are not three Gods, but one God.
So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord;
and yet there are not three Lords, but one Lord.
Just as we are compelled by the Christian truth to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord,
so also are we prohibited by the catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords.
The Father is not made nor created nor begotten by anyone. The Son is neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created nor begotten but proceeding.
Thus, there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
And in this Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another;
but the whole three persons are coeternal with each other and coequal so that in all things, as has been stated above, the Trinity in Unity and Unity in Trinity is to be worshiped.
Therefore, whoever desires to be saved must think thus about the Trinity.
But it is also necessary for everlasting salvation that one faithfully believe the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, it is the right faith that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is at the same time both God and man.
He is God, begotten from the substance of the Father before all ages; and He is man, born from the substance of His mother in this age:
perfect God and perfect man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father with respect to His divinity, less than the Father with respect to His humanity.
Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ:
one, however, not by the conversion of the divinity into flesh but by the assumption of the humanity into God;
one altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ,
who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again on the third day from the dead,
ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, from whence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
At His coming all people will rise again with their bodies and give an account concerning their own deeds.
And those who have done good will enter into eternal life, and those who have done evil into eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith; whoever does not believe it faithfully and firmly cannot be saved.
{"commentId":2825293,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"mg-cover"}
#21 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:33 PM EDT{"commentId":2827198,"authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
Yes, the Bible states that God created the universe. It does NOT however state precisely how He went about doing it. It also states that He accomplished this within seven days. Now, if you truly believe the Bible's depiction of God then you also believe Him to be a being with incomprehensible and infinite power. Now think, to a being that obviously can exist outside of space and time seven days to him might actually be somewhere in the neighborhood of billions of years as far as we are concerned.
{"commentId":2827198,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nathan-3084"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":2856125,"authorDomain":"mb7476"}
Religion and science can co-exist.
...and they do.
{"commentId":2856125,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"mb7476"}
{"commentId":2825325,"authorDomain":"bihariclod"}
Some of the comments posted here would have made more sense coming from people living in the caves in middle east or the dark forests of tribal Africa. Just goes to prove that when it comes to blind faith, supersitions and religious dogma, Americans can give a run for the money to any crazy eyed Ismail, Mohammed or Masood.
As for people beating their chest about the waste (not waist) , just google about all the major technical inventions that are a direct result of researches in theoretical physics especially particle physics. But then i guess if you have internet and an opinion, ignorance is not going to stop most people from opining.
{"commentId":2825325,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"bihariclod"}
- 1 vote
#22 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:35 PM EDT{"commentId":2825993,"authorDomain":"nightshade-1"}
Technology which often leads to other break throughs in science and medical technology like many of the experiments in this area that predated it.
But there is not arguing with many of them, they lack the education to understand the fundamentals of science. The funny thing is the people on here who look down their noses at science and scientists are usually the first in line at the doctor's office when they are sick. They are not too proud to take advantage of all the benefits science has produced, some of which were developed from information gathered during other super collider experiments.
They are a bunch of board people who fear science. Religion and science don't have to be mutually exclusive. Unfortunately a lot lack the imagination or the intelligence to make that realization.
{"commentId":2825993,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nightshade-1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":2826186,"authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
MrIndia, dear!
Don't make fun of people who believe in God !
God is smarter than puny little ants called men!
He can lead them by their noses making them think they know so much till they search, research and stumble over themselves, because He will not allow the proud and arrogant to find the final answers. He'll be always ahead of them! If they ever would come to the end of their search, HE , THE GOD OF ALL THAT WAS IS AND EVER WILL BE WILL STARE THEM IN THEIR FACES!!!
...and don't make fun of person's simple misspelling, it's such a small matter! You made a bobooo too: it's not "opining" but "opinionating"!!!
Good day to you! :)
{"commentId":2826186,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
{"commentId":2830216,"authorDomain":"hmi"}
Hope 51, I am a Christian believer, but I just wanted you to know that even though I do not agree with Mrindia, she is right regarding her use of the word "opining", which simply means to give an opinion. That being said, misspelled words really don't mean much, the heart that an opinion comes from does. Give each other some space. We all need to reach out to others in ways that honor of the love that God has for them. I am sure glad someone did that for me, even when I was really obstinate. We will never bully someone into agreeing with us.
{"commentId":2830216,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"hmi"}
{"commentId":2830853,"authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
Hi, Ron I responded to another poster about spelling correction, you may want to see post #63.2
As far as my comment , I didn't write offensive toward MrIndia, even though he was sarcastic toward Christianity. I did not attack him(I think it's he). But the rest of my comment was simply the description of condition of man who is always searching, and never coming to the knowledge of truth...
I believe in the love of God for all, but to tell it as it is, it's no lack of love, it's just the facts. And some of us have a very descriptive way to put it ...Why, I even left him a smiley face, and was in no way sarcastic about it! That should say something!
Good night to you, friend! Hope :)
{"commentId":2830853,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"nadahope51"}
{"commentId":2837467,"authorDomain":"bihariclod"}
Hope and Ron ...i was NOT being sarcastic towards christianity. But towards religious zeolots who oppose science. Towards people who say don't go to moon - it's a deity. Towards people who say don't split atom - it's only god's prerrogative.....don't try to fathom the origin of life - don't play god....etc etc.
....and Ron ...i am a "he" :-)
Most of the scientists working on this project are christians. Their belief does not stop them from pursuing the scientific query.
Sometime ago TIME magazine had a nice issue on exactly these lines. See if you can get your hands on it. There were some nice articles in it by some very eminent people (both scientists and theologians) regarding why science and religion need not be mutually exclusive.
{"commentId":2837467,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"bihariclod"}
{"commentId":2825621,"authorDomain":"mg-cover"}
Athanasius. (c. 293–c. 373)
Called the "Father of Orthodoxy," his life shows great heroism, fortitude, and faith. As deacon he accompanied his bishop, Alexander, to the Council of Nicaea (325). He became bishop of Alexandria three years later. Known for defense of Nicene Creed against the heresy of Arius. Suffered exile numerous times. Brought together the Greek theologians of the East (who emphasized that the Godhead is made up of three Persons) with the theologians of the West (who insisted that God is One). Led to present form of the Nicene Creed at the Council of Constantinople (381). He did not write the Athanasian Creed, but it is based on his teaching.
{"commentId":2825621,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"mg-cover"}
- 1 vote
#23 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:44 PM EDT{"commentId":2825660,"authorDomain":"twobanjonuts"}
This experiment will produce some intersting facts, or non-facts. I will be interested particularly since some physicists believe that every particle is somehow connected in the universe.
What will be the effect on "neighbor" particles. Will a black hole form? Will it "eat" the nearest particles?
If nothing forms what is the non-evidence? How will it confirm or change existing theory?
THAT is the questions I am interseted in!
{"commentId":2825660,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"twobanjonuts"}
#24 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:45 PM EDT{"commentId":2825680,"authorDomain":"visualarts"}
Sorry folks, the cure for cancer and AIDS are known, they are man-made diseases. Christians who have killed more humans intentionally,millions, with their hypocritical 'thou shall not kill' bible studies should go back to their bible study-TV-brainwashed existence whilst their bible-trained presidents can finish killing millions more for Jesus.
{"commentId":2825680,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"visualarts"}
#25 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:46 PM EDT{"commentId":2825806,"authorDomain":"d51moose"}
they are saying this is what made earth not god ,this is what they try ed to teach the kids in school ,it was kicked out fast .if this works earth and us were made by the big bang .i do thing so ,he mite of showed up later if any. you believe in a book i believe this. sorry its true
{"commentId":2825806,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"d51moose"}
#26 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 5:50 PM EDT{"commentId":2856350,"authorDomain":"mb7476"}
The big bang is just a process...a reaction....and it could have been set in motion by God.
The big bang theory doesn't rule out divine intervention...which I personally believe in.
When the universe was created, so was physics...light, gravity, magnetics, energy....
Physics just attempts to explain how all of the things in existance react to each other and function so that we can utililize their properties to better human lives. Dispproving the existance of God is probably the farthest thing from the scientists' minds.
{"commentId":2856350,"threadId":"352432","contentId":"1841822","authorDomain":"mb7476"}
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