Palin says Obama regrets bypassing Clinton

It's like Baghdad Bob saying the "infidels" aren't knocking on the door.

It seems they'll do almost anything to avoid talking about her religious views. She is a model Republican, they're trying to ignore the dents and nicks.

I think it's hilarious that Palin thinks she can project what Obama is thinking.

esp since she hasn't figured out what she's thinking yet!

Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin said Friday she thinks Barack Obama regrets not making Hillary Rodham Clinton his running mate.

Why would she care about the Obama campaign's strategy being better? It's obviously just a way to irritate women to come to her side as if the real issue in the campaign is sexism and a token woman would have made the Democratic ticket a better adversary. What sense does that make?

What sense does that make?

It heightens the awareness of the comments Biden made that "frankly Hillary would have been a better choice."

Seems there is growing consensus

Exactly. Vote for me I feel your pain about poor Hillary. And I was a Clinton supporter.

Knuckling under is a bad, bad idea. Replacing Biden is not an option. The rest of my Democrats need to calm down and get ready to beat on McCain.

I'm surprised just how much impact the VP battle has had on Obama. He has wasted so much time and so much of his lead in the polls defending his Presidential experience against the Republican VP candidate and defending his choice for VP that we are starting to forget who the two presidential candidates are.

Even the "Biden Administration" is forgetting who is at the top of the Democrat's ticket.

I'm fully a McCain supporter, but I would expect Obama to be taking McCain to task and staying on the offensive about the BIG issues, important presidential type material. Let Biden take on Palin and try to minimize the importance of the VP selections as quickly as you can.

Leave the VP noise, experience, gaffes, alone. The more that liberals and the media go after Palin the more she has been rising in the polls. What do you suppose that means??

TopJedi:
I heard Paul Begala say as much. I expect Axelrod to forcefully impose a switch from focus on Palin to focus on McCain starting now. As you pointed out, the Obama campaign has wasted time and energy on a losing strategy. They have to make a loser of McCain, not Palin. Even though McCain's campaign wants to make the election about Palin, Obama should not play along and allow them to dictate the tone and subject of the campaign.

Axelrod is an attack dog on a level that Rove and even the late great Lee Atwater could not compete with. If Barack turns him loose the there will be blood in the streets, McCain/Palin blood. Works for me.

'Palin says Obama regrets bypassing Clinton...'

I have a better headline.

'Clinton Says McCain Regrets Selecting Palin...'

What the hell does Palin care about Clinton? Is she serious? I mean, I guess it wasn't just McCain hiring her on to pander to females - Sarah Palin is completely in on that game as well.

I'm so tired of this all.

TopJedi

It heightens the awareness of the comments Biden made that "frankly Hillary would have been a better choice."

Actually, Biden said:
"She's a truly close personal friend...quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me. But she's first rate, I mean that sincerely, she's first rate."
Source

But lets just pretend like you're right for the sake of your empty argument, shall we?

I read this article and have to ask sincerely.....

Is this site politically biased towards the Obamination?

Usually the articles are so accurate here, what is this?

If America mistakenly chooses Obamination as a President; The USA will be a sandy desert within 4 years due to his ignorance. 100%.

Don't bother responding to my opinion. I don't check to see who's
toes I stepped on. Feel free to post any inaccuracies as you may so desire.

Michael:
Thanks for contributing to the number of "drive-by" comments that we have. You drive down the value of debate on Newsvine by voicing your opinion and running off, refusing to defend it. I find you to be an intellectual coward.

'Is this site politically biased towards the Obamination?'

Twisting someone's name around at Newsvine to make a negative point is against the Code of Honor even if it's not officially on the list.

This is from Calvin Tang.

What the hell does Palin care about Clinton? Is she serious? I mean, I guess it wasn't just McCain hiring her on to pander to females - Sarah Palin is completely in on that game as well.

Republicans again trying to create a divide in the Democratic party. It's really pitiful.

arcanebliss,

But lets just pretend like you're right for the sake of your empty argument, shall we?

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I probably agree with you that too much is being made of Palin on both sides. I'll go one further and say it does Obama no justice to have people continuing to focus all the attention on Palin. Biden's correctly stated comments included.

I read this article and have to ask sincerely.....
Is this site politically biased towards the Obamination?

I want to hear you say that you're noy biased.

When the truth comes out more and more, and the majority of the country begin to turn their backs on the McCain political deception machine. Are you going to be one of the thick Republicans arguing that the reason is, whole world is Biased? Not because McCain sucks? That's how Republicans lie the best. By telling the truth. This is like complaining that some people like air and some don't. Dead people are the only unbiased ones. Obamination, Obamination?LOL I guarantee this proves you are more biased then I am. biased. Look up the word. I like chocolate. This make me biased. I freely admit it. I'm Biased as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!

What the hell does Palin care about Clinton? Is she serious?

Because they have so much in common. Wait, no they don't.

If America mistakenly chooses Obamination as a President; The USA will be a sandy desert within 4 years due to his ignorance. 100%.

Thankfully someone on Newsvine with psychic abilities.

Thankfully someone on Newsvine with psychic abilities.

And Republicans have been so good at predicting the future so far.

And Republicans have been so good at predicting the future so far.

They knew what voting machines needed special software upgrades, didn't they? *smirk*

Just some quotes reguarding Axelrod:

"Then, to the shock of liberal reformers, Axelrod began including in his candidate mix such Democratic Machine warhorses as Cook County Board President George Dunne, U.S. Rep. Dan Rostenkowski and Cook County Sheriff Richard Elrod. "I don't know how he rationalized that," says Rose. "I think he's a principled, generally progressive guy. Working for Richard Elrod and George Dunne--that was a compromise with idealism.""

"This is known as "spin"--a political operative's reframing of an event, issue, statement or fact to the benefit of his or her candidate. And Axelrod, especially with his roots as a reporter, with his knowledge of the sorts of quotes reporters need, with his sharp humor and rapid-fire mind, spins as well as anyone in American politics. Indeed, Mike Royko, the legendary Chicago columnist, once observed: "He can really spin your brain.""

- source: link

"To Axelrod's fury, there have been allegations that in its consultancy for business clients, his company has engaged in 'astroturfing' - PR campaigns that manufacture ostensible grassroots backing for their products...."

- source: link

This is just the sort of guy I would want to help me create a false perception of 'hope and change' in the media and the voters minds if I wanted to make sure "...there will be blood in the streets, McCain/Palin blood..." (-source: #1.11) to deceive my way into the Whitehouse.

McCain is trying something new, it's called the politics of lying. He is blatantly lying about his record and about Obama's. McCain needs to be careful or his own reputation is be forever damaged.

McCain needs to be careful or his own reputation is be forever damaged.

Too late.

Do you know what the thunder bolts on the podium are? Shock and awe? Shuck and awful?

Unfortunately I agree with Palin. I think Obama is regretting his VP choice. His ego would not allow him to pick Hillary and now the polls are tightening in what should have been an easy year for the Dem's to win. I am voting for Obama/Biden. I don't dislike Biden, I just think it would have been a slam dunk with Hillary. I am also tired of being on the short end of the stick in November. Obama should have used his head and not his hurt ego when picking his VP. Ignoring the fact that 18 million people voted for Hillary was a huge mistake and I hope we can overcome it.

His ego would not allow him to pick Hillary and now the polls are tightening in what should have been an easy year for the Dem's to win. I am voting for Obama/Biden. I don't dislike Biden, I just think it would have been a slam dunk with Hillary.

I don't think it was his ego. I don't know Obama and can't read his mind like so many other people here on Newsvine. But I think a big part may be the baggage of Bill Clinton.

But I really thought it was gonna be Obama / Clinton, especially after Edwards' affair scandal.

The "baggage" of the Clintons is old news. Even after all the investigations Hillary still got 18 million votes.

I agree, Hillary is old news but relevant news. Obama needs to get back those voters who went for Hillary. They were emotionally invested in her and Obama does not appeal to them. History has a way of repeating itself.

Sen. Craig, is that you?

Check out "Palin is Evil" on youtube

This woman is two faced. I read danger in her. She'll say or do anything and then deny it ever happened.

Just like John McCain.

She'll say or do anything and then deny it ever happened.

She sounds like she has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Have you noticed that since Palin came to the ticket blizzard is used in many metaphors? Alaskan theme?

She is being made to look like an empty-headed pretty face, which is not her fault

It is her fault. No one made her accept the offer to run.

I don't feel bad for her. She's smart. She may be evil, but she's smart, and so she knew exactly what she was walking into. A regular person that does deserve sympathy is someone who would not make the choices she has been making since this started. Yes, she is being guided through the whole thing, but she is able to make the choice to lead or follow. And so far she is choosing to follow. She doesn't have my sympathy.

Democrat in CT, You make a valid point. I would feel sorry for her if that were all there was to it. Unfortunately, I don't think it is. The problem for me is that W- among so many others had similarly high approval ratings as well... for a couple of years at anyrate. Then the crash to earth came when we realized that these policies and ideas are an unmitigated disaster. Everything we have seen of Palin is that she has shared those exact same policies and ideas from long before the national spotlight came her way. Frankly? I think it was just a matter of time that something like this was bound to happen.

Now, this isn't to say that it would nearly be as bad as it is going to be for her NOW- quite the contrary, and to THAT extent I almost do feel a little sorry for her (and that's where your point is a good one). It's the NATIONAL disgrace that's the hard one because without all of this, she would have just been a failed governor that was destined to be either impeached or voted out and then mostly forgotten. (Believe me, as someone who's lived in Arizona where we've had more then one of those, I know that old story).

And yet... maybe it's BECAUSE I'm in Arizona and I have seen first hand the damage that these policies can do... I can't do it. I'm sorry, I know I should be better then that, but I just can't do it. I cannot get past that cold as ice lack of morality she seems to tout with the hard-core line to really see anything human in there to care about.

Democrat in CT..

Time to check into the Reality Hotel. Palin's not that popular. It doesn't take long for a mere 670,000 residents to turn on you like a pack of wolves. Alaskans have a lot of pride, and many are upset about Palin and the events of the last two weeks.

KUDO AM TalkRadio in Anchorage is running an online poll that asks a simple question:

'Do you think Sarah Palin is ready to be Vice President?' 86% are saying NO. Even if most of the votes came from Dems or liberals, this is pretty frickin bad for your home state.

Some callers to the station want her to resign the governorship now. Others were talking about impeachment proceedings.

Robert,
Wow, thanks for the info! I knew that would happen sooner or later. I know that there are a lot of Arizonans that feel the same way about McCain:)

Dem in CT,
I don't feel sorry for her and you shouldn't either. Accepting to be on the McCain ticket was her choice. Maybe this was one of those times she should have blinked before answering.

I really don't think she thought that she would waltz right through this political process. She knew what she was getting into and personally I think she is weathering through the storm fairly well. Too bad to because I don't like her or McCain but they sure have gotten some traction since she has been on board.

She would have said so. Nobody would blame her for not wanting it. Not everybody does.
Seems rather apparent though that she would have taken it.

What an "interesting ticket" that would have been. I don't know if it would have worked any better than Biden. Hillary would have secured the 18m but also given many just another reason not to vote democrat. Biden was pretty safe. I don't know a single person saying, "no way i'm voting for a ticket with Joe Biden."

Palin gave the republicans the "interesting ticket" angle, i think.

Hillary Clinton never wanted the VP slot. With Clinton, it's all about The Agenda, and as Vice-President that would be impossible.

She wanted all or nothing. Remember...she KNOWS what the VP can and cannot do. She lived in the White House for eight years.

As the Democratic Senator from New York, (with 18 million supporters), in an Obama administration her agenda is assured.

Mike

"worked better than Biden"

I don't think Biden has added anything to the campaign. Like you said he was safe. But he didn't bring anything and other than a few small gaffes. 18 million votes is nothing to scoff at. Hillary would have had more than that in the general. Biden's (very few) votes went to Obama already so Biden brings nothing to the the ticket. Delaware's 3 votes were safe in the first place and Hillary would have brought the same amount of help that he brings to Pennsylvania. Net gain with Biden is zero. He just doesn't hurt anything??? Wrong. It hurts because he is there instead of Hillary.

I don't think...... it starts with the truth... then rest of it is just gets more and more ridicules. Hilary would have killed the Obama Campaign. She was the one the REPUBLICANS wanted Obama to chose for a good reason. They can't fight Obama on the facts. Hilary has a negative history. Hilary is an easy target.

I think he is doing a great job of killing it himself. Everyone already knows everything there is to know about the Clintons and 18 million people still voted for her. Tell me because I didn't look it up, How many people voted for Biden?

Hillary Clinton is going to court in November, Obama vetted her well.

Seriously does anybody know how many people voted for Biden?

not over it, way to completely overlook my comment.

Good job! Arcanebliss

I hadn't heard that but it really doesn't surprise me. People have been going after the Clintons for years. Who knows when the microscope will ever see daylight. No shock value anymore. The Clintons are still standing and getting voted for. 18 million times! By the way....You completely overlooked my comment as well.

another bald attempt, no offense to follicley challenged, to tie herself to women and specifically, female Hillary supporters....I wonder if JMc has a plan *b*.

I'll toast to that! The Repubs spent 8 years investigating those two in the first Clinton Presidency, with all that time off, I bet their investigators were foaming at the mouth at the chance to get a 2nd go at it. Throw sh.. at the wall til something sticks. The divide in this country would only have grown.

Mad Cliff and chelli

The good thing about the Clintons is that we already know everything about them. Don't forget all the good (not just the bad). Don't forget that Obama is running to them now for help. The republicans and democrats have already drug them through the mud for at least a decade and 18 million people STILL VOTED FOR HILLARY. No new surprises with them. Everything is big news with Palin because 3 weeks ago nobody knew her name. Palin is a big risk. But even with the bad press she seems to be working for the republicans.

You can continue to bash the Clintons all you want but if we lose this election it will be because Obama's ego would not let him make the right VP choice, Hillary. That is why the polls are closing in on him now.

Any more mistakes on Obama's part and it will McCain/Palin/Bush for 4 more years.

Please Obama No More Mistakes. We can't handle 4 more years!

Not over it, I wasn't trying to bash the Clintons. The truth of the matter is the Republicans Hate them and lose all sense of civility at the very idea of having them in the White House again. I like the Clintons, but just not the idea of going through all that again.

I don't think that republicans care if it is the Clintons they go after, it doesn't seem like they are afraid to go after Obama either. That is always their strategy. The Clintons are used to it and would be (in my humble opinion) better equipped to take the republicans on.

Well spoken simmons 518. I was a McCain supporter until he choose Palin.
This selection shows the McCain is not what he has claimed to be. I do not
fault Palin but McCain, he did not believe we deserved the best candidate
that could well be President given his age and condition. Also his attacks
on Obama lack sincerity as he himself choose inexperience to be "a president in waiting".

I am vexed by it ;and for some reason take it personal. Trying to figure out why.
In my professional career i have either been selected as i was the best qualified or suited or rejected as another was more quaified or suited. I can accept that very well but i never could be reconciled where competence
was not a factor. Sarah Palin is definitely not qualified to be President of the USA.

I think McCain had her sell her soul to the devil.

I think that transaction occurred several years back....

pleased to meet you....hope you guessed my name.....it's a close call, but, it's not John McCain....

It's not over yet. Let's wait for the outcome of trooper gate and see who has made the mistakes.

NoMc---You continue to amaze me. You show up in the middle of some fairly congruent threads and throw out some stuff which has absoluteley nothing to do with the current conversation.

Do you get points from McCain by dumping your anti-Obama talking points in the middle of these threads?

Oh Conrad, this isn't liberals.com, we're allowed to talk anti-Obama, pro-McCain. Just because the first 20 posts are from liberals doesn't mean us repubs can't come in and shake things up. I believe it has EVERYTHING to do with the current conversation, are we not talking about the upcoming election?

Or did I miss that somewhere...oh, this is the "Let's Bash Sarah Palin By Believing All The Lies The Media Has Told Us" thread? Sorry....

McGovern:
You're being a little presumptuous in assuming he's going to get his ass kicked, aren't you? For those to be judged failures, he does have to lose to McCain, you know.

No Mcgovern repeat 08

Historians will judge the major Failures of the Obama campaign as follows:

Nice to know that you're continuing on your psychic rant.

Nice to know that you're continuing on your psychic rant.

He has to. Without him we'd be blind.

Anyway, I'd say the Obama campaign has been pretty successful. In the span on 2 years, he came out of no where to get past a Clinton. First African American Presidential candidate of a major party. Inspired the young generation.

Unfortunately the young generation is not the only part of the democratic party that you need to WIN. He messed up really bad not picking Hillary and if he doesn't regret it he will in November.

It's a shame that older, wiser people seem to care more about characters than the policies and the people they'd help.

Wiser? Being wise does not automatically come with age. Or is being young mean you are not wise.

Patience is a virtue. Let them continue. I promise this time it is coming back around to bite them in the arse...

Her "star" has plenty of time to fade and considering the rate of bad news about her coming out most independents and moderates will see her for the lying phony she is. No thinking American wants to see this airhead one heartbeat away from the presidency. She's just not intelligent enough.

AGREE!

I see a spiraling vortex, heading downward for McCain's ticket. That was one hell of a stupid idea to put Palin in the running for one of the most, what should be, prestigous political positions in this country.

What were they thinking??? This is not suppose to be a joke, parading a woman to try to cinch women votes..HAHAHAHAHA...

We will have the last laugh...keep spiraling Mc and P!

Snow...I feel your pain in wondering where the justice is. I surely hope that not all American voters think all women are like Palin...gag me...for I would rather hide under a rock for the rest of my life than be judged by the likes of her.

She is definitely a pitbull in sheeps clothing...she was half right.

She has no clue as to where Bush stands and if she did she should have run in the other direction, unless her stance is the same as his...scary!

Vague and hazy in answering questions posed in her first interview...no wonder they kept her out of the limelight for so long. WaKe Up AmErIcA...four years is a long time and I can't sink any lower financially...can YOU?

Which lies are you talking about here? Just curious.

Well, here's one. Factcheck.org has a good source of things that they've said that are "less than honest".

snow:
You watch. Axelrod is about to go James Carville on John McCain's campaign. Obama has a distaste for negative politics but, based on his response to being attacked, he's warming up to playing the game. Every Democrat's best bet to help Obama win is to give his campaign whatever money you can spare, make sure you go vote and make sure your friends and family go vote Obama on November 4. Obama's campaign is taking out the sledgehammer and preparing to do what needs to be done.

Justin- checked your website. I will go on the record as saying I don't think Obama meant to directly attack Palin with the lipstick saying, but I do think it was very poor judgement and the whole crowd obviously took it that way, which is what is important. Also, I think it takes the ads a little to literally. They used direct quotes from Biden and Obama, and both candidates have been distorting direct quotes.

For example, because I know you dems are thinking i'm crazy, at the Saddleback Forum John McCain JOKINGLY said that you had to make $5 million/year to be considered rich, he even said "I'm sure I'll hear something about that after this is over." Now Obama has been saying in speeches "John McCain thinks you need to make $5 mil. a year to be rich!"

I really don't think either candidate would put out an ad that could be so easily disputed.

Distortion is a nice way of putting it. Completely misattributing a quote might be a tad more accurate.

The lipstick thing, honestly, if I really felt that they wanted to deal with "just the issues" then why was something like that brought up?

As for the zany ad campaigns from both sides, I'll give you one better. For some reason, John McCain's ad folks believe Obama wants to teach sexual eduacation in Kindergarten.

Nobody here has clean hands, but McCain's campaign has the propensity to fall back on it more often than Obama's does.

He does! It's a real bill, I'll look it up for you. Seriously, it's covers prevention of STD's. I'm not even joking.

Sorry for the mispelling, I meant education. Sometimes, my fingers, they don't work. :)

Here you go, this seems to cover the whole Sex Ed Kindergarten thing. Source

OK PEOPLE, HERE IT IS!!!

Senate bill 0099

"Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K, six through 12; shall include instructions on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections including the prevention, transmission, and spread of HIV. Nothing in this section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene, or traditional courses in biology."

Actual excerpt from the bill.

So parents can opt out and it's not explicit. I imagine there will be a lot of absent kindergartners on those days. Obama didn't sponsor it, just supported it. Supporting it, however, is just as bad as sponsoring it.

I don't know if I agree with you on that assessment.

The bill you are alluding to is Illinois SB0099. The bill addresses comprehensive sex education for K-12. It does not state "age appropriate" (the bill's actual wording is "comprehensive"), has no specifity that for earlier grades it is meant as a deterrent, and provides no guidelines as to what is appropriate subject matter, Although Obama claims otherwise. IMO, he needs to be attacked on this one.

haha Cute commercial idea. However we cannot stoop to their level. Let them continue to insult AMERICA's intelligence by continuing this freak side show. She's got nerve to stand up there and make that comment about Obama regretting his choice as running mate when she was only chosen "NOT FOR EXPERIENCE" but b/c she wears a skirt. Sad, sad, sad how McCain has to hide his inabilities behind this circus. We don't have time to listen to crap. The ONLY one's speaking about REAL ISSUES are OBAMA/BIDEN. I said it once and I will say it again. If "I" were a Republican....b/c I'm a STRONG WORKING MOTHER OF 3 with a husband. I'd be MORE OFFENDED than I already am that McCain threw that trash on stage and said "Well, since Hillary is not on the ticket I got a woman so now you can VOTE FOR ME." What a LOSER. And to think I actually liked McCain......in 2000.....lol

VETERANS FOR OBAMA

HyperActive

"It does not state "age appropriate" (the bill's actual wording is "comprehensive") "

(2) All (1) course material and instruction shall
13 be age and developmentally appropriate.

"and provides no guidelines as to what is appropriate subject matter, "

"Factual information" includes without limitation
30 medical, psychiatric, psychological, empirical, and
31 statistical statements. -2- LRB093 05269 NHT 05359 b 1 "Medically accurate" means verified or supported by 2 research conducted in compliance with scientific methods, 3 published in peer-review journals, where appropriate, and 4 recognized as accurate and objective by professional 5 organizations and agencies with expertise in the relevant 6 field.

And honestly, needs to be attacked? Something 3 years old and something he didn't even write or sponsor? If attack politics is what you want, I'm lamenting for what politics should be.

Come on people! Let's use some common sense with this issue. I really can't believe anyone would believe anyone is suggesting teaching kids in kindergarten any thing but age appropriate sex ed content. Just what is wrong with teaching our little ones how to be safe around adults that would harm them? The lessons probably sound like this--Stay away from strangers, tell a trusted adult (parents, teacher) if someone touches you in a private place or makes you feel icky. Enough said.

The lessons probably sound like this--Stay away from strangers, tell a trusted adult (parents, teacher) if someone touches you in a private place or makes you feel icky. Enough said.

It's a shame people don't want young kids to get this information.

Alaska has the highest rape and incest rates in the country.

chelli- pure assumption. And I'm sure at that age parents would be more comfortable talking to their kids about it than having teachers do it. It doesn't say that that's all that's talked about. Read the excerpts from the bill.

Dan- source?

Tiff 17.22,
Actually happen to know something about it, I'm a teacher. Also know that if a teacher was teaching inappropriate sex ed for the child's age, they face being fired, sued, and losing their teaching licence. As far as having parents teaching the kids, that's great. There is an opt out clause for that reason. Also, when teaching sex ed for elementary students letters are generally sent out encouraging parents to talk about this issue with their children as well. Many times, by having the subject brought up at school, sex ed provides the catalyst that parents need and aids them in starting the conversation. I don't care who does it, as long as it gets done.

Me; I used my name and everything? You even did? Or was that just a statment? I heard it on the radio yesterday, and saw an article in some magazine a few years ago. Forgive me for remembering something and having the bad form to repeat it. But if have audacity to doubt my veracity then...

Since 1976, Alaska has ranked in the top five states in the nation for the highest rate of reported rape per capita.
In 1993, Alaska ranked 1st in the nation: highest per capita incidence of rape.
Alaska has 6 times the national average of reported child sexual assault.
1 in 4 girls before the age of 12 and 1 in 6 boys before the age of 18 nationally will be sexually assaulted.
Fairbanks Health Center surveyed 419 clients over a 3-week period and found that 24% reported physical abuse in the past 6 months while 39% reported some form of sexual abuse (1995). In 3 out of 4 reported cases, the victim knew the offender, the most commonly reported type of sexual abuse is a father who commits incest with his daughter--usually the eldest daughter.
As many as 4 out of 5 offenders were sexually assaulted as children.
One-third of incest victims' mothers were sexually abused as children.
Alaska's rape rate is 2.2 times the national average overall.

hehehe, you have to admit, had Obama chosen Hillary, this game would have been over and Palin's star would not have shone as bright. But, Obama did not choose Hillary and Palin is right. Obama is cringing at the thought of what might have been.

PUMAs do exist.

If Obama had chosen Hillary he may have won in a walk but he'd have had a divided administration and a VP that was adversarial to him. I'd rather not have a presidency than have a total failure of one.

Demo_nomore,

I agree, the Obama "cringing" is so obvious I think it can actually be heard...and these article links support this irrefutably!

"The enduring importance of Mrs Clinton and her husband Bill to Mr Obama's hopes was underlined yesterday when the candidate held a lengthy, fence-mending lunch meeting with the former president." - source: this link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2801657/Joe-Biden-Hillary-Clinton-might-have-been-a-better-vice-president-than-me.html

and this article says a lot (perhaps it says too much):
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/12/1859172-obamas-campaign-manager-admits-they-are-pissing-their-beds

Why would Obama's campaign manager go on record as to campaign member bed-wetting!? Can anybody tell me!!??

Scott Isaacs,

Then you better vote McCain/Palin!!!!!

MTSeeker:
That's very cute. I think Obama/Biden is a much better balanced ticket to run the country than McCain/Palin... I appreciate your a) attempt at humor or b) attempt to sway my vote. ;-)

But, Obama did not choose Hillary and Palin is right. Obama is cringing at the thought of what might have been.

PUMAs do exist.

PUMAs are probably one the biggest sexist groups around. Voting for someone just because of their gender. How sad.

I guess I could be classified as a PUMA as you say. I am not voting for McCain/Palin but I do think Obama screwed up and the polls are reflecting it.

I too think he should've picked Hillary as his VP. Though my dream team was Obama / Edwards. I had thought that it'd be Obama / Hillary. Then later on Hillary would run with Edwards as her VP.

yeap, mccain would say and do anything just to get a vote, I completely agree -- like suffer 5 years of torture in the hands of the enemy.

hmmm... what did you do to deserve the right to speak? show a little respect for those who fought to give you that right.

what did you do to deserve the right to speak?

VickieB is a citizen of The United States.

yeap, mccain would say and do anything just to get a vote, I completely agree -- like suffer 5 years of torture in the hands of the enemy.

Palin didn't. What's her excuse for lying then?

that's it? because was born in the US? that's called freeloading.

"A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society." --Thomas Jefferson to George Hammond, 1792.

I wonder what that makes you Demo. How ironic is it when a supporter of an American servicemen wants do deny the opinions of a fellow American?

that's it? because was born in the US? that's called freeloading.

That's called Freedom of Speech. It's a basic principle you fought for when serving this country.

Perhaps what the Democrats are saying is thanks for Palin. As the republicans have use Hillary to fund raise all these years, Obama is using Palin just the same. Seems that money keeps pouring into the Democrats coffers every time Palin opens her mouth.

Mike, mike, mike...

Please do not speak on my behalf, stating "all Americans"...America wants real and true change...NOT MORE OF THE SAME CRAPPY leadership we have had to put up with for 8 long and torteous years.

Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for bringing this country and country men and women to their knees, struggling to make ends meet while the pub's writhe around in luxury. Putting us and our young men and women in harms way by lying about weapons of mass destruction!

I agree with LasVegas in proclaiming Palin as paving the way for intelligent American voters to vote for Obama/Biden.

Yes, Mrs. Clinton would have made an aweseome choice, but I believe there are reasons beyond our immediate concerns as to why she wasn't chosen...bigger plans coming down the pike maybe? Wouldn't surprise me, since Mrs. Clinton can and will find ways to help this country get back into shape.

Let's face it and you cannot deny it, but Republicans have taken the American people on a long and financially devistating ride long enough and it's time for the whole lot of them (Rep's) to step down and let true leaders of and for the people take over.

Hope you'll come around and make the right choice...for the arse you save may be your own!!!

Bev, Bev, Bev,

Honored by your reply.

You are casing my point when you saying Palin is paving the way for "intelligent American voters to vote for Obama/Biden"

Arrogance.

America has a propensity to change governing party ever few years and yet you are losing. Why? You have a dynamic, articulate and insightful candidate and yet you trail in the polls and the gap is getting wider by the day. Why? You an unpopular president, a slowing economy and you running against Geriatric Man. Yet you can't seem to close the deal. Why?

Let me explain.

Americans really do not want left wing socialism. And they really, really, really despise arrogance of democrats who keep telling them if you don't vote democrat you are uneducated, unintelligent or evil.

Sorry, there is a reason a MAJORITY of Americans adore Sarah Palin while democrat elitists and angry posters on this board destest her. Want to know what it is? here it is...are you ready.....drum roll please....

SHE IS NORMAL

If anyone on either ticket is a socialist, it is Sarah Palin. Alaska is the highest federally subsidized state on the US map. Do you follow? My tax dollars, because of people like...mmmmmm...Sarah Palin are going to pay people to live there. Republicans have lost people like me because the only part of conservative they like any more is the social side of it. They rail on and on about gays and guns and religion, but at the same time they are not just spending with always increasing vigor, they are hiring their old companies and donors to do the work. Conservatives are right when they say that income redistribution is wrong. They are right when they say the free market knows best. Problem is they are actively embracing income redistribution from taxpayer to Halliburton, from taxpayer to Blackwater, from taxpayer to Exxon, from taxpayer to ALASKA. They have additionally proven that they only believe in the free market until it doesn't bring home the bacon, then it is time for public bailouts; fannie mae and freddie mac. They should start supporting some causes that don't support solely them.

yes Americans would prefer a president where at least they know for a fact that the last thing he said was a lie. and if he dies a religious bigot with no grasp on reality and a view similar to the Taliban (but crhist-o-con) will be president!

Hi, Republican trying to make ends meet (literally) married to a Marine who has been in harms way in Iraq TWICE now, he's still a Republican. You see, here's the difference between us "pubs" and you "dems"- PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I would rather struggle to make ends meet than have someone who's rich pay for my healthcare, education, etc. It's called survival of the fittest, and HOPEFULLY you dems won't survive here and move to Europe- MAKE WAY FOR THE REST OF US! I'd rather work hard my whole life than take handouts, thanks.

Americans really do not want left wing socialism.

Actually, they do ...

They just don't want to PAY for it.

And they really, really, really despise arrogance of democrats who keep telling them if you don't vote democrat you are uneducated, unintelligent or evil.

Who else BUT someone who is uneducated, unintelligent, or evil would be dumb enough to vote for the same lying sacks of %$#@ for TWO TERMS?!

Ground Control to Major Tom ...

Honored by all the replies.

Again, you guys are casing my point.

Because of my viewpoint, when Bill Clinton was in office, i thought everything the guy said was a calculated lie. And certainly he was a liar. Imagine that, a politician lying to us. What are the odds :-)

What I am proposing here is that we all wake up to the reality that this election is not going to be won by destroying the other sides candidate. It just won't work on either side. This election will be won or lost mostly on the issue of the size and scope of our government.

The referrendum will be this: Do we really want left wing socialism? You can call it another pleasant sounding name if you like. But that is really the question here.

I've already made up my mind. No I don't want it. But listen, this is the opportunity of a lifetime for the democratic party to make their case (for all the reasons I posted in 22.3).

So get out there and go for it.

Tiff:
Glad to see you support Social Darwinism. You are aware that the last government based on it led here, right?

No offense, I hope your husband comes back safe and sound, but if the worst should happen are you going to say that he was just too slow and had it coming per Darwin's theory of Survival of the Fittest and he just wasn't fit enough?

P.S. - I say this not to insult you, but to see if you actually believe in Social Darwinism or are just using it to insult Democrats. Your answer will tell me which it is.

I really don't want Obama to win, but, God forbid, if it happened, I think it would finally teach the world a lesson. obama is as left-winged as they come, and the changes that would be coming are not good. But maybe then we would learn from our mistakes and move on....

As for the comment i'm sure i'll get back (didn't we learn our lesson after 8 years of bush, blah blah blah), his ratings started dropping when democrats took control of congress- IMAGINE THAT!! Congress has a lower approval rating than the president, there's some food for thought!

it's never the democrats fault though right?

Just curious Tiff, how is Obama so left wing? What exactly made you come to this conclusion?

Scott- I don't take offense to your post about social darwinism and my husband- he is back already so that's good. In fact, a month after he got back we got in a car accident (caused by bad weather, snow, ice, etc.) that should have left him dead, according to his neurologist. He suffered a traumatic brain injury. He was in a coma for several days and came out of it having to learn how to read, walk, talk, eat, etc. again. He's healthy now and starting to go back to work. Someone posted on the local newspapers website "Social Darwinism at it's best" responding to the story about our accident. I just about went ballistic...anyways, on to my point.

I think we should practice social darwinism in our economic system. I think there are some things (i.e. roadside bombs, air raids, etc.) that are out of our control and are- hate to break out the religion here- a part of a bigger plan.

I am not a Social Darwinism extremist to any extent, but I believe that people should not live beyond their means, and that the best person for the job should be the one that gets it. I think things like affirmative action and high taxes have made our country weaker because we're not letting the best succeed. I really believe in the trickle down effect, too. I don't think it should be forced (i.e taxing the hell out of the rich). I think that the more successful our economy is, our businesses are, the more successful the employees. Goverment restrictions on business, like what Obama is doing, makes it harder for them to succeed and in the long run it's the bottom workers that get the short end of the stick.

Calgal, to answer your question.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This so·cial·ism (sō'shə-lĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key

n. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy

Obama wants to tax the big corporations to pay for all of his policies that he wants to put in effect. He wants to regulate business as well. Please see definition above, pay close attention to last 9 words. It's called income redistribution.

Cal Gal,

Thanks for the question.

This is from Me, Mike, mind you: The democrats are, by nature, socialists at heart. They don't want to call it that because as I said before, Americans really don't want socialism.
We all want to fix what's wrong in america but the difference is this....

Democrats think government is the best hope to solve these problems. Republicans think American Citizens and American Inovation and American enterprise is the best hope.

Ronald Reason once reminded us that the ten most dangerous words in the english language are

"Im from the goverment and I'm here to help you"

He was right.

Obviously there are some functions were govt can work and can work well. National defense, infrastructure, foreign policy, and even some basic social programs to care for the basic fundemental needs of all our people. Nobody, at least not me, would argue that we need take care of the poor, disabled, children, elderly, etc.

The issue, at least to me, these days is that we as a nation are becoming a nation of out of control entitlements. I spent some time recently in inner city new orleans after Katrina and I can tell you that there are probably 100K citizens in the inner city there that have been living for generations on welfare. They don't work, they don't want to work, they don't intend to work. We have spent millions, maybe billions, in your money and mind trying to help them but we have created a system where there is frankly not any incentive for them to even try to become productive and fulfill the potential that is availiable to them here in America. Everyone agrees we should make certain they should eat, have shelter, be cared for...but are we really helping them or enabling them?

Democrats are for wealth redistribution, taxing the "rich" and "evil" corporations and successful professionals so that they can expend entitlements to "us" in the middle and lower class. Sounds great right? This is wildly popular (which Obama fully understands) but is fundamentally unfair, unamerican and uneffective. Our country is rich because successful innovators and businesses create real wealth and opportunity. Govenment produces no weath whatsoever.

Democrats want to expand the public school monopoly. do you think the quality of public shools and our children would be hurt by healthy competition from private schools? of course not, competition breeds inovation and excellence in everyone.

Democrats now want to socialize health care. Health care is a serious issue because it is expensive and costs are skyrocketing. but do you really believe government control of the health care system will lead to efficiency, excellence and lower costs? when was the last time you got a drivers licence and stood in line at the DMV. How efficient were they. How effective and excellent. Were you costs as low as they could be? Of course not on all accounts.

Socialism is terrific on paper but in reality it does not work very well at all.

Thank you mike! you explained that much more eloquently than I ever could have.

Lets keep things honest here, instead of irrational by calling the McCain ticket Fascists and the Obama ticket Socialists. I'm really tired of the melodrama where American voters claim they have an inkling of what Socialism or Fascism looks or feels like.

Sarah Palin is a Populist-Leaning Conservative.
John McCain is a Populist-Leaning Conservative.
Barack Obama is a Hard-Core Liberal.
Joe Biden is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.

Now please compare the Socialist Democrat Bernard Sanders, to Barack Obama.

I can't locate a Republican senator who is clearly Fascist so that we can compare/contrast with McCain.

speaking as if I were a democrat (and I was a democrat until this election), i'd be very afraid. bush was hated in 2004 and people thought kerry was a sure winner. as history would show, did not happen. the republicans do not have to win the democrats over, they just have to win the republican base. of course there are those like me who have switched rivers -- and sent money, too. (gosh, this election is getting expensive.)

but the arrogance of the democratic party is/was just too much for me. the past primary had the feel of an appointment, not an election what with Kennedy, Kerry, Reid, et al., endorsing the Messiah, thereby influencing the process, even before the majority of the states had a chance to vote. the problem with that is that they are supposed to be leaders not some small time mayor making an endorsement.

that was the it for me. i refuse to accept the crock being shoved down my throat. this is not only a vote for mccain (sorry, I was a soldier and soldiers tend to stick with each other). this is also a vote against the arrogance of the democratic party.

angry? nah, just the little spanking that the democratic party deserves.

Barack Obama is not "the Messiah". The only people I see touting that he's the Second Coming are anti-Obama folks.

Tiff:

Scott- I don't take offense to your post about social darwinism and my husband- he is back already so that's good. In fact, a month after he got back we got in a car accident (caused by bad weather, snow, ice, etc.) that should have left him dead, according to his neurologist. He suffered a traumatic brain injury. He was in a coma for several days and came out of it having to learn how to read, walk, talk, eat, etc. again. He's healthy now and starting to go back to work. Someone posted on the local newspapers website "Social Darwinism at it's best" responding to the story about our accident. I just about went ballistic...anyways, on to my point.

I'm glad that he's okay now. Who ended up paying for the therapy?

I think we should practice social darwinism in our economic system. I think there are some things (i.e. roadside bombs, air raids, etc.) that are out of our control and are- hate to break out the religion here- a part of a bigger plan.

I guess my question to you would be to what point do you want to practice it economically? Where people that don't work have to live at subsistence level or where people that don't work actually starve?

I am not a Social Darwinism extremist to any extent, but I believe that people should not live beyond their means, and that the best person for the job should be the one that gets it. I think things like affirmative action and high taxes have made our country weaker because we're not letting the best succeed. I really believe in the trickle down effect, too. I don't think it should be forced (i.e taxing the hell out of the rich). I think that the more successful our economy is, our businesses are, the more successful the employees. Goverment restrictions on business, like what Obama is doing, makes it harder for them to succeed and in the long run it's the bottom workers that get the short end of the stick.

Ironically, while I know you don't support Obama, if he wins the presidency I think it would make black people amenable to ending affirmative action and quotas because once a black man advances to the White House the reason for affirmative action, to redress the sins of discrimination against black people, have been purged because equality of competition has largely been achieved.

I'm a Machiavelli guy so I tend to look at humans as selfish bastards unless they prove to me otherwise, which is why I think that trickle down economics doesn't work and that the government has to take from the rich what it needs to make society function smoothly, including the businesses that use government provided infrastructure to make the money they have. They shouldn't be yoked like oxen but Bush has let them off way too easy. To my mind, trickle down economics doesn't work for the same reason that Adam Smith's invisible hand does: human nature to be greedy and gain & keep the most for oneself. There are exceptions but this is the rule.

scott- we have not payed ONE medical bill...just to give you an idea of the expenses too, he was flown from Northern California where the accident happened to one of the best rehab clinics in California in Encinitas (southern cali). My medical bill was $18,000 for basically a CT scan because I didn't stay overnight. He was in the hospital for 3 weeks and then the rehab clinic for 5 weeks, and he has since become an outpatient. It's been 9 months of rehab and we haven't payed a dime. In fact we've gotten reimbursed for gas expenses for me driving him to therapy! So all of those who think veterans don't have benefits and blinded. Maybe the VA moves a little slower than some (imagine that, a gov't run institution running slowly and inefficiently, yet we want universal healthcare).

I don't want people to starve and I think John mccain getting educational programs going for unemployed workers is better than letting them live off of someone else's paycheck or welfare. We're only as strong as our weakest "player," so letting these people live off other people isn't good for our economy or country. I think that we should regulate businesses as little as possible, and it's shareholders and board members and the public that need to keep an eye on corruption, because unfortunately it does happen.

I think as far as the trickle down effect goes, it works in some places and doesn't in others. Just like regulating business will work in some ways and will incredibly inhibit businesses in others. It's a balance that's hard to find, but I think that taxing the heck out of businesses is going to further highlight our economic situation and in turn be bad for the businesses as well as consumers.

rk4, my daughter is 21 and feels the same way. This will be her second presidential election, she turned 18 in time to vote for Kerry in 2004. She's proud as hell of her vote, though, even if Kerry wasn't elected. I've never missed an election, neither has my mother, neither will my daughter. Even if your horse doesn't win, those who don't show up to vote leave some mighty big decisions in the hands of those who DO show up. You're wrong about the GOP, though -- they ARE agents of change -- from bad to worse. I was a Republican for the first 26 years of my voting life. That's why I became a Democrat in 2000.

"from bad to worse" - that's funny.

i see your point, but when hope is gone, hope is gone. no point in trying anymore. i've gotten involved in this election & have spent a lot of time/energy. when you get screwed over once, you learn & move on. when you keep doing the same thing over & over again & get the same results, that's called insanity.

funny but true - "from bad to worse."

Dear rk41979

Let me see if I understand you.

You're 29 and while you could have voted since you were 18 this is the first time you will vote. However , if you do not get your way and your candidate loses you will never vote again.

Well I am a little older than you. Although I have voted in every major election the last time the candidate of my choice won was in 1960. Yet I voted and will vote win or lose even when I think there is not big difference between th4 candidates. Why?

Well I have been to parts of the world where people would die for the privilege we have. And I also know that over the past couple of hundred years or so a lot of people died in order that I may have the privilege of voting. So I believe I owe it to all those who gave their lives in order that I may have this gift not to be ungrateful. it's a matter of honor.

In some countries such as Australia BTW it is against the law not to vote. I think you pay a hefty fine if you don't.

Just something to think about.

my family heritage is non-american, so i'm very well aware of the privilege here.

"a matter of honor" - sure, the process is, but definitely not the candidates. bunch of lies from the palin camp. what's honorable there?

thanks for trying to improve my insight (i'm an MD like you & in the psych field), but it's not going to work.

a lot of newbies like me are losing hope & that's a reality that people much older than us are going to have to come to terms with. when that hope is gone, there's nothing anyone can do for anyone; like you can't get someone out of a depression no matter what you do using meds, therapy, ECT, etc., when they've lost all hope.

"a lot of newbies like me are losing hope & that's a reality that people much older than us are going to have to come to terms with."

Not really. Us much older people will be dead. It is you I'm afrad will need to come to terms with your despair. Good luck.

I'm puzzled however. You say your family heritage is non-american . Well that's true of most of us save the aboriginals. I am guessing however you meant relatively recently as in the last generation. However you managed to get through medical school. Is there any other country where this can be done? Yet you have no hope.

rk...29 and never voted before...hmmmm...have you lived in this country from 18 on? Sounds like you've lived a very sheltered life and one of naivity.

I would have been so embarrassed to have admitted that and yet glad to hear you will be making the right decision; voting Dem's in for real change.

However, if Obama/Biden don't win,...which is highly unlikely...you will never vote again???

That is a ridiculous statement! Thank God, everyone does not think that way. Could you imagine the state of our union? Imagine not having freedom of choice, to speak, to live the way you desire! Get educated and stay on top of the subjects...do your homework...and work like hell to get the right person into the position. Doing nothing and casting a blind eye will only lead to devastation.

EVERYONE HAS GOT TO GET OFF THEIR KEESTERS AND WORK TOWARDS A TRUE DEMOCRACY! Voting alone will not make it happen...get involved...write and work to support your vote and the person you are confident in.

rk,

Thank you voting. Please don't be disillusioned. voting is what makes America great. I've endured many of these elections. This one is no different than most. People always say "this is the lowest, the dirtiest, etc."

Don't believe the trash talking. don't buy into the hype. We have two worthy contestents and this is one epic battle, perhaps the most epic in my lifetime.

Understand that behind all the hoopla and the bitterness and the arrogance spewed in the media and especially boards like this, americans are passionate about which direction the country should go.

Unfortunately, voting creates in our minds winners and losers. In the end I hope we can all salute and support the winner. I know I will.

You know why the newbies like you are losing hope? Because you're whiners, seriously! Perfect example is you saying if your candidate loses you'll never vote again. I'm 23, this is my second time voting in a major election, and I've voted in every election along the way, and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, But you always get back on the horse so to speak. Our generation is SCARY. It scares me to think about my future and my kids future because so many people are age are stuck in that "teen angst" mindframe. We feel sorry for ourselves, we aren't handed everything we want, we may have to work for something...wah wah wah. We're a bunch of whiny babies who follow trends. Obama is a trend. I give him "mad props" for being able to hypnotize so many people with words, smoke and mirrors. Remember who you voted for...

Tiff:
If Obama becomes one of the better leaders our nation has had, I hope you will remember whom you voted for as well.

Agreed Scott. People are going to be amazed how this whole election will turn out and what comes out of it. It is not going to be pretty for the Republican party. Many more scandals and humiliations ahead for them. Their Karma is getting ready to come home to roost.

Scott- I will eat my words and be SHOCKED if Obama becomes a good leader. Let's not forget that a good leader is good for the whole public, not just middle class. I think obama the elitist forgets that.

Tiff:
You ARE the middle class at $29K/yr. Why on earth would you argue that a good leader is good for more than the middle class? In reality, a good leader is one that promotes the common good and that includes asking the best off among us to sacrifice.

I expect to be upper middle class one of these days, you know, making over $100,000. I'm preparing for my future. Plus I believe in my own hard work, not that of others.

rk, thanks for playing. but, since you cannot win all the time, and you seem like you want to win the first time you play, just take your toys and go home. please don't threaten those who have been playing the game for so long and still have the stamina to keep on fighting for what they believe in whether they lose one year or win the next.

so, take your toys and go home. cry, and tell your mom we don't want to play with you anymore. boohoohoo.

brat!

Tiff:
Don't you think that a good leader is one that does the best for the most people in a society? Because that would be my rough definition.

RK,
I hope that it is not true that you will not vote in the future. You said it yourselft, Obama inspired you to go out and vote. That is the first step in trying to change something you don't like--ACT. I have always voted but never took on party affiliation, until this year (I changed back after caucusing to no party). I was tired of never having a "good" choice. By acting, I now feel I have a good choice in this election. By just giving up and not being involved you will get what you deserve--whatever the deciderers decide to give you.

to dr. john riolo - "Is there any other country where this can be done?" - there are plenty of other countries this can be done, not just the US. & FYI, college/medical education is free in many other countries.

to BEV_OKC_CITIZEN - yes, have lived here since 2.

to Tiff-491743: F--- you. i graduated high school at 15, college at 19, medical school at 23. I've worked my a-- off to get to where I am in my life & if i were a whiner, i would have never gotten this far. never voting again has to do with the loser politicians out there. once a politician, always a politician. they won't change. Don't you dare call me a whiner; you have no clue how hard i've worked. So F--- off.

to Demo_nomore: the reason i don't want to play anymore is that it is BENEATH me to waste my time with LOSERS/IMBECILES like you. my life can be so much more productive instead wasting time with FAKERS like you who've never really accomplished anything in life. Was that arrogant towards you Demo_nomore? ABSOLUTELY, and that was my full intention. You're worth less than the dirt in my toenails, scumbag. "please don't threaten those who have been playing the game for so long" - you BET i will.

rk- you are a whiner, i bet you whined your way through school. Just because you work hard doesn't mean you're not a whiner. congrats on all your accomplishments, yet they fail to impact me as much as your naivete. you thinking that Obama isn't your typical politician just proves how naive you are- he is typical far left, nothing new, nothinig we haven't seen. and if all of this is beneath you, then don't come on here and say stupid stuff like "i'm not voting again if barack loses." you are awfully defensive, and i'd imagine you've got some major self esteem problems if you have to say that kind of stuff to me and demo_nomore. get over yourself.

Uh, lets try and keep the discussions on Newsvine civil please.

"to Demo_nomore: the reason i don't want to play anymore is that it is BENEATH me to waste my time with LOSERS/IMBECILES like you. my life can be so much more productive instead wasting time with FAKERS like you who've never really accomplished anything in life. Was that arrogant towards you Demo_nomore? ABSOLUTELY, and that was my full intention. You're worth less than the dirt in my toenails, scumbag. "please don't threaten those who have been playing the game for so long" - you BET i will."

did i hurt your feelings, RK? ooohhh... are you crying? go home and tell your mom. oh, you'r mom does't care either? we'll tough luck, you'll have to grow up then.

by the way, you're pretty immature for someone who's 29

you "think"? did it hurt? you only have a few cells in your brain, don't over use them -- like taking cocaine, smoking pot, etc.

ON BEHALF OF ALL INTELLIGENT and CARING WOMEN, WANTING CHANGE...please don't fall under the geise of Palin.

Get to know the stances of both parties, read up on some of the issues Palin has horribly failed at in her own state, and read between the lines.

DON'T VOTE JUST BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN...let's be a lttle smarter than that. You want better for your children and we must support the party that will put us back on track, the right track.

SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CUT THE MUSTARD, NOR WILL MCCAIN, IN REPARING THE DAMAGE ALREADY DONE. It will take the heart and will of OBAMA / BIDEN to work towards true change!!!

THANK YOU! My sentiments exactly.

The epitome of speaking from both sides of ones mouth, which is the Republican way! We've all witnessed that, haven't we!

I swear you liberals watch completely different shows than I do. I thought McCain did a great job on the view, especially considering he was sitting with Joy, Babwa and Whoopi. I don't know what was disasterous about her openly answering questions with her beliefs, not saying "that's above my pay grade."

John did do an excellent job on The View. I especially liked the part where he said that Palin took absolutely no earmarks whatsoever as Governor of Alaska while Palin was defending the earmarks she took as Governor of Alaska to Charlie Gibson.

Let me clarify that for you- she didn't take any earmarks that were hidden, under the table, etc. EVERY politician takes earmarks, even your beloved Obama. She spends wisely, she doesn't waste our tax dollars to teach sex ed to 5 year olds. I guess we shouldn't be overturning roe v. wade if kids are going to start getting pregnant at such young ages huh????

Tiff:
Apparently you don't understand the earmark system that transferred federal funds to Alaska on Palin's watch. That system allowed Senators to introduce earmarks onto totally unrelated bills anonymously. Go ahead and look it up, it's true.

Also, you're ignoring the hypocrisy of Palin. To say she is a maverick and ended the Bridge to Nowhere and fought against wasting taxpayer money is rank bullsh*t. She gladly took the handouts, ended the Bridge to Nowhere when it was politically feasible and her state is still hogging that very same money that was destined for the Bridge to Nowhere to build more infrastructure in a lightly populated American version of Siberia. Not only that, but the Alaskan state government collects so many taxes on the oil it exports it should be able to pay for anything and everything it wants. Instead, Palin uses those funds to send every Alaskan resident a check for $1200 (recently boosted to a higher amount) while taking federal funds from states like Mississippi that are resource poor to build not only needed infrastructure, but wanted infrastructure.

Gee, Tiff, that's not what John said. He made no qualifications whatsoever on the earmark thing. Was pretty adamant and in Barbara's face about it. By the way, I'm very grateful that the lessons I taught my daughter about inappropriate touching and stranger danger were reinforced in our public schools. Kids at that age need all of the reinforcement they can get. I guess John doesn't care about that very much. Although I think Planned Parenthood kinda liked the big spike in donations they got after that ad.

Ok Kris- stranger danger is one thing, but this bill includes how to prevent spreading STD's. Give me a break. As far as the earmarks- he did say (just watched the clip again) she didn't take earmarks as governor, she did as mayor. He admitted it, she admitted it, and please give me an example of a governor who hasn't taken an earmark!

Tiff:
Name how many governors say that they slay pork but have taken it in large quantities up until recently.

Tiff - STD's are dealt with at a later age. That wasn't brought up in Kindergarten or even 5th grade, but now that my daughter is in 7th, this may be the year. Of course, I've always had the option of opting her out of the classes, and access to the curriculum so that I can do that if I so choose. The opt-out was a provision in Obama's bill, too. If you don't like the curriculum, your child doesn't have to take it.

On the earmarks, McCain said, without qualification, that Palin didn't take earmarks as Governor, and Palin said she did. Obviously somebody is lying. Whether or not any other Governor has taken earmarks is not the point. McCain's blatant lie is.

The bill Obama passed RECENTLY is teaching STD prevention to kindergartners. Obama was barely in the picture (not at all in the US picture) when your daughter was in kindergarten, therefore she wouldn't have had it then.

Scott- you are the best "debater" i've come across on these! She didn't take huge earmarks as governor, about $1.3 mil., which pales in comparison to what some states take. She got rid of the "pork" that was unneccesary- the jet, the chef, etc. So, in the long, run, she did save Alaskans money by cutting some of the pork.

Tiff - I'd appreciate knowing your source. The only 'sex ed' bill that I'm aware of that Obama supported was the one referenced in the recent McCain ad, although that bill was several years ago in the Illinois Senate, and the purpose of the bill was to update then-existing Illinois law to ensure that the curriculum is medically accurate. For that matter, that bill stalled out and never made it out of the state Senate. Google and other engines are swamped with info on the old Illinois bill, so maybe you can give me a reference to the one you're talking about. I'd like to learn more about it.

See above, it's bill 0099. I have quoted an excerpt from it and JustinPM found more info on it. His is kind of contradictory though, saying McCain's ad is untrue, then quoting the bill which says basically what my quote said. Oh, and my source is the wonderful internet we're chatting on! Google it.

Education Week says Obama "hasn't made a significant mark on education." That he's "elusive" on accountability. "A staunch defender of the existing public school monopoly." Obama's one accomplishment? Legislation to teach "comprehensive sex education" to kindergarteners. Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family.

This legislation isn't saying to teach sex education to anyone, it's about what content should be included in that education. So far, (and I haven't read the whole thing just yet) the wording on this piece of legislation has yet to specify who should be taught sex ed.

Actually, SB 0099 is exactly the one I'm talking about. An opponent of Obama's raised it as an issue in 2004. That amendment to then-existing law mandated that the curriculum was to be age appropriate, including for kindergarteners. Since you said that it was a recent law and that it was passed, I thought you meant something other than this.

Tiff-491743

I swear you liberals watch completely different shows than I do. I thought McCain did a great job on the view

Oh, he did an excellent job. McCain made me a very happy lady with what he said on The View, but probably for different reasoning than what you'd use:

John McCain continued to laud his running mate, Sarah Palin, as a budget cutter on Friday, this time erroneously asserting that as governor of Alaska she had not sought congressional earmarks for her state.

In fact, while Palin has significantly reduced the state's earmark requests, she asked for nearly $200 million in targeted spending for the 2009 fiscal year. And in an interview with ABC News aired Friday, she defended her earmark requests, emphasizing that she opposed "earmark abuse."
Fact Check: McCain misstates Palin earmarks record

Tiff-491743

The bill Obama passed RECENTLY is teaching STD prevention to kindergartners.

Tiff, that's outrageous and SO false. I can't even believe you thought of something like that.

Well I finished reading it and nowhere to my knowledge in the legislation does it say that sex ed is to be taught to anyone. What it does say is what content should be in the education.

Tiff:

Scott- you are the best "debater" i've come across on these!

Well, thank you. I've had a lot of practice and the benefit of a Catholic school education and college at Miami of Ohio.

She didn't take huge earmarks as governor, about $1.3 mil., which pales in comparison to what some states take.

If Palin would have had her way it would have been far more. For just 2008 she requested $256M in federal earmarked funds including the following:

• $400,000: Alaska Invasive Species Program: Continues to comprehensively prevent, identify, and respond to the threat of invasive species on the Alaska environment.

• $494,900: Assessment of Recreational Halibut Harvest in Alaska: This is an ongoing effort to collect data on the recreational halibut fishery that is conducted by federal agencies though relying on the state for data.

• $2 million: Bering Sea Crab Research and Management: Researches Bering Sea crab productivity and sustainability as necessary to restore crab stocks.

• $3.2 million: Seal and Steller Sea Lion Biological Research: Funds monitoring of ice seal populations in Native villages, research on the species delineation and genetics of harbor seals to understand the declines in population and provide for population restoration, and continues research into Steller Sea Lion population decline.

Source

the jet, the chef, etc. So, in the long, run, she did save Alaskans money by cutting some of the pork.

No disagreement here. If she were my governor I would have loved her because she replaced Frank Murkowski who was using state funds to pay for his private jet and other amenities as well as upping my yearly "being Alaskan" bonus from $1200 to $2000 this year alone (and that's without the new windfall oil tax revenue included - Source) and getting the federal government to pick up the tab on all kinds of activities that benefited my state's economy. Problem is, she's moving up the chain now and she's attached to Mr. Anti-Pork John McCain so these activities don't look very good in hindsight, particularly that she increased this windfall tax and rebate to taxpayers scheme on oil companies that Obama has suggested on the federal level and been excoriated for because it would supposedly drive up the price of oil to consumers. If that's true, Alaska's windfall tax and rebate scheme stole money from you, me and every other American that buys gasoline and everything else related to the cost of oil and redistributed the extortion money to Alaska residents. It's not a very rosy picture of Palin's record on a major issue which is energy.