First fear, then loathing, toward Wall Street

I agree with you that we are at once confronted by the most challenging circumstances and at the same time offered an opportunity to help ourselves by making a change for the better. You couldn't be more wrong if you believe that all the hogs at the trough are Republicans. About six months ago on Bloomberg Radio there was an interview between Charlie Stein of B R and former Clinton Sec of Treasury Robert Rubin. Rubin was a honcho at Citigroup and Stein asked him if the directors and CEO s of the large investment houses should have known what was coming in the collateralized debt business and whether the people in charge should shoulder some of the blame for the damage. Rubin didn't answer directly but said that " when you're in a particular business sometimes you have to do what everyone else does or you find that you're not really doing business anymore." I'll never forget that if I live to be a hundred. ALL these guys knew what they were selling and they felt that there was 1) too much money involved to pass up and 2) there was a feeling of safety in numbers for them. The Paulson money grab is nothing more than an attempt to bum rush the country into bailing out people who feel that they are privileged because they are the country's " best and brightest ". This is the problem for the people of this country and it goes way beyond partisan politics. It's a way of life for people who feel as though they are the country's royalty. Just saying.

What makes you think Obama doesn't work for the same masters?

Democrat seems the only choice, since the Republicans are in charge and the economy is in a huge mess. Are Demos perfect? Hardly. What is being felt now about politicians is going to get worse, and whoever wins '08 is going to get more of the same hostility. The lady's story in the article will be repeated with different players all over the country. My mom is 69, and so is actually retired, and her husband also, so far they are ok, but noone will be immune totally to the coming struggle, trying to build back the financial market. Everyone is going to have to make do with less, everyone.

It is amazing to me you can actually see a difference between these two party's.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government." "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." "From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." Wall Street has learned and is getting their now!

Very Interesting! And scary! It seems we're at the brink doesn't it? What is most galling is the same people who say let the market regulate itself are the same ones up on Capitol Hill right now with their hands out. I'm afraid of what's going to happen next if they are successful in their bid to plunge America even further into debt with this bailout. What aggravates me even more is Henry Paulson, on Meet the Press this weekend, blaming the American public for this mess!

This was a well written article. It indicates how those who work hard and played by the rules, like the woman who bought the condo in California nearby her new modest job, lost everything in some cases, while the sharks on Wall Street are sitting there waiting for their government checks.

We are GETTING ROBBED BLIND and somebody needs to stop this. Paulson is going to step down in three months and take a cushy job on Wall Street. You want this guy deciding how much money we should fork over to...himself and his buddies. I don't think so. I sat in shock as I read about the multi-million dollar golden parachute that Halliburton gave to Dick Cheney in 2000 and wondered just how much the American taxpayer was going to have to pay back Halliburton for that investment in Cheney. Well, we got our answer! We payed back in government rip-offs our soldiers' blood in Iraq. ENOUGH!

If Wall Street wants a bailout, we want part ownership of their companies at least until ALL THE MONEY IS PAID BACK IN FULL. PERIOD. No free government checks for the greedy @!$%#es.

I understand that everyone is upset, and that we all have passionate opinions and feelings about the situation we find ourselves in. I think now that we all do know the reality, it is imperative to turn our attention to the bailout plan submitted by Secretary Paulson, which is two (2) pages long, and gives him the sole authority to spend a huge sum of money without any oversight by anyone. Within its two pages there is a statement specifically saying that no one can hold him accountable for anything. It also extends the bailout to foreign banks. It calls upon the same executives who ran the banks and financial institutions to run the bailout, at the same levels of compensation. This is our plan?
I watched helplessly on CSPAN yesterday as a few Democrats halfheartedly urged caution or at least thoughtfulness to an empty Congress, and then read news reports that the bailout will be swiftly enacted, in order to end the crisis and save the markets. The most likely outcome at the moment is that Congress will suggest a few compromises on the most obvious, and least important (relatively speaking) components of the plan and the administration will browbeat them, once again, into submission, and this thing will be passed in a matter of days.
So, our solution to the problems which most people attribute to the Bush administration will be to give it complete power and authority, unquestionable by anyone, with no oversight by anyone, to spend $700 billion? It seems unreal, almost surreal to watch it all unfolding. I think we must all be in shock, because we are all acting as if this next step is inevitable, as if we have no other alternative, and as if it is certain that the plan will work rather than bring the same financial chaos into our government as currently exists in our markets. What are we thinking here?

what people seem to be missing is that a lot of this started with the Democrats - it was Clinton's administration that pushed for easy credit/ mortgages for the low income individual. Years ago, this was being praised for allowing home ownership for those who could not otherwise afford. Now we are paying the price! If they can afford, they should not take out a mortgage. Unfortunately, the banks and ibanks continued to securitize these "bad" mortgages in order to do more "bad" mortgages. And with leverage we know that good and bad gets magnified.

BIG difference between getting loans for the poor and screwing the rest of us with predatory practices. Blame Clinton Mr GOP if you want, BUT it is on Bush's watch and he has had a GOP congress for 7+ years and did nothing but line the pockets of his rich friends

Fisherman144 it was Bill Clinton who started the deregulation of the housing market. With his idea at all Americans should enjoy the feeling of home ownership.

But lets not get political, I say let them go under NO BAILOUT

What this article does not demonstrate is the ultimate irony of this situation. Banks / Insurance systems use the government, the courts, the police, and any other shady organization that they can to make sure we are accountable and responsible for our dealings with them. Don't make your payments on time - collection, court, bankruptcy. Misrepresentation or fraud and the police will be calling on you. Try to fix your credit report .... even when they are wrong! good luck.

But these guys want us to give them a pass here. They need people to take pity on them for "bad decisions"; not to prosecute them for fraud and misrepresentation; not to take their houses and 401k s to pay for this; They even want the right to keep running the show after such complete incompentance (this goes for both the bankers and their political buddies) and misconduct that any of us would be fired immediately.

They tell us that this is necessary to keep the system working. On top of that, they don't even want to tell you what they are doing - just give us authority and we'll fix the mess for you. Sounds like giving a junkie more drugs to me.

The only question we should be asking here is: "If the situation was reversed, how would these guys treat me?"

Absolutely right, GregS (msg. 2.15). I can dig up old blogs of mine going back to 2003 predicting this mess. I can go back to blogs I posted following the Fed's rate drop, earlier this year, pointing out how that resulted in soaring inflation and high gas prices while financing, not mortgage relief, but an even bigger crisis down the road (which has now arrived), and I can point to posts just last week predicting that the Government's promised bail-out would result in these "Wall St. titans" taking our promised bail-out money and using it to once again speculate on oil and other commodity prices, instead of using it to fix the mess (check oil prices this morning? Yup, my crystal ball's still working).

AND THE ANSWER IS "NO BAIL-OUT"! If we must have money market liquidity and if taxpayer money is the only source for that liquidity, then the Government might as well make those needful loans directly, rather than funneling the cash through the folks who caused the problem in the first place. FDR proposed that in his NRA. The Sup. Ct. shot it down back then, but it would pass muster today, so let's do it and let's let Wall St. fail. Yeah, they've got a ton of my money they threw away, but I'll take the hit now. The alternative is to further burden me and the rest of the responsible taxpaying public only to find no relief and, indeed, to further exacerbate the problem. Let's face it, if a doctor botches an operation, you don't go back to the same doc to fix it. Why would we go back to the perpetrators of this disaster to fix a mess entirely of their own making?

The only Gov't money Wall St. should see is the cost of the civil and criminal prosecution of everyone involved. And let's make sure they serve their time in Arapahoe County, cleaning brush and eating bologna sandwiches and nutriloaf, not at some Fed'l country club penitentiary.

I agree that the GOP hands-off approach led to this. Still, I wonder why no one was complaining when the gravy train was building up phantom cash in everyone's 401K? Why did intelligent people buy more house than they knew they could afford?

I blame the financial sector for unbridled greed, but I cannot let the average American be without some share of the blame. The signs were there, yet we continued to borrow and borrow, and spend money we did not have while foreign nations paid for the war.

If this was not the elephant in the room, I cannot think of a another situation that more clearly highlights it. No one wanted to recognize the problem until it began costing all of us. Now, everyone wants a scapegoat. Pogo said it best: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

The problem, pica (msg. 2.18), is that only about 20% of the mortgages out there are "bad". So, yeah, one out of five average Americans got greedy or stupid or otherwise hocked themselves to the gills. I didn't. Most of the posters here probably didn't. BUT, Wall St., which knew those 20% of mortgages were bad, then took those bad mortgages and "bundled" them, to disguise how bad they were, then sold them to other Wall Streeters who were anxious to create "paper profits", and so looked the other way and didn't question what they were buying because they could make it look good, even if it stank (sorta like Napoleon's comment about "a silk stocking filled with dog s**t") - that's, btw, how Lehman can go broke, even while claiming that its executives are "owed" $2.6 BILLION in "performance bonuses" (yeah, paper performance, but now the bills are due). The average slob out there had NO control over any of that. The end result is that that 20% of bad mortgages, linked up with and hidden among the good mortgages, has "infected" the entire mortgage market. NOBODY now knows (and can't know, without reconstructing every single transaction from the get-go) what those mortgage bundles are worth. A 20% problem has become a 100% problem because nobody trusts the value of these mortgage bundles, making every dollar deposited in them a "lost dollar" (hence the "liquidity crisis"). Blaming the American public generally is like getting mad at your kid for catching a cold at school, after 20% of the kids in his/her class come to school sick and cough on him/her.

So, I disagree. This is a Wall St. mess, NOT an "American mess". We know who the perps were, because they are the ones standing with their hands out. Let's go back to the school analogy and smack those hands with a ruler.

Fisherman144 it was Bill Clinton who started the deregulation of the housing market. With his idea at all Americans should enjoy the feeling of home ownership.

Actually, it was in 1980 under Reagan that the first deregulation for the financial industry occured. Congress adopted the Depository Institutions Deregulatory and Monetary Control Act which
eliminated interest-rate caps and helped push subprime lending. This led to the S&L crisis.

"It's like adding insult to injury to then see that the government is going to step in, and these idiots that have done wrongdoing for a long time are still going to retain big bonuses,"

I agree that things are FUBAR. However, I dis-agree with placing the blame on one party. I think both parties, Wall Street and government agencies particularly Fannie and Freddie need to be made fully accountable.

Patisanship. Neither candidate has any idea what to do and it is all about appearances at this time. Further, the problems were obvious to all members of both parties. The Democrats, however, focused their efforts on attacking Bush for an unjust war. No WMDs. So, what happened to the recent article of all that yellow cake shipped to Canada from Iraq ? The Republicans were focused on defending their policies. In the meantime, the health and well being of our economy was going down the tube because both parties did not want to face the tough issues. Rule one of crisis management, ignore the problem and see if it goes away. Typical leadership by consensus from both parties.

Wall Street is responsible. Greed has always driven a free enterprise system. But, it has never been allow to go this far unchecked. The governments role historically has been to reigh in the greed for the benefit of the country. It did not happen this time.

And let's not forget Fannie and Freddie. From my own personal dealings with them, they were arrogant, out of touch with what was going on and made matters far worse than needed to be. Now, they have applied the same policies at the national level. And, guess what, the same results have happened but millions of times worse. They are a failed experiment and should be dramatically downsized or eliminated But, you do not hear either candidate talking about them. Why, because they are both so deep in bed with the crooks.

Years ago, I was appalled to hear my Dad say the only good solution to the problems in Washington was to go there with a bunch of ball bats. As I have gotten older, I now realize what a true visionary he was.

We the people keep screwing up by voting for those who make the most gratifying promises, promising to lower taxes, defeat the terrorists, drill for more oil, and provide for all of our needs. We need to bite the bullet; we need to stop electing people who pander just to get elected. We need to kick the lobbyists out of Washington and our state legislatures. We need to elect people who will make difficult choices that are in the best interest of the nation regardless of whether they are in our individual best interest. I would be willing to do that but I will never be elected because I refuse to play the game. And so it goes, nothing will ever change and we will eventually fade away.

NO BAIL OUTS!!!
WE ARE IN A DEPRESSION!
Seven Hundred Million will just about cover the severance pay of the crooked Wall Street idiots that cooked up this plot! Wake up folks, this administration has brought down the United States. What NO army or Foreign Government has been able to do. This was done by our own people in our own country.

Add all this up;
The "National Debt" is 10 Trillion Dollars. (Balance of world trade.)
We owe China over 2 Trillion Dollars in loans.
China HOLDS over 2 Trillion Dollars in "Treasury Certificates".
China also has 1.3 Trillion Dollars in U.S. CASH on hand.
The "NEW" President will inherit 3/4 of a Trillion in current debt. (Interest, ect.)
The "BUSH" wars are costing the United States 12 Billion dollars a month,== That equals 1.44 Trillion Dollars a year plus the murder of our sons and daughters and the destruction of the countries involved.
We are supporting troops in over 800 bases in 130 countries (1.8 million people)

ADD ALL THIS TO THE OTHER OBLIGATIONS AND DEBTS -- NOW THEY WANT TO COVER ALL THE "TOXIC" DEBTS OF THE WHOLE WORLD HELD IN THE US MARKET! THIS WOULD BE PASSED ON TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! WE ARE OVER 20trillion DOLLARS AND COUNTING! IT CAN NEVER BE PAID OFF IN
A THOUSAND YEARS.

THIS AMOUNTS TO TREASON AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!
NO BAIL-OUTS FOR ANYONE! LET WALL STREET CRASH AND BURN! DECLARE THE COUNTRY BANKRUPT AND ALL DEBTS CANCELLED!
BRING ALL OUR PEOPLE HOME,--

AND START OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't bite your nose off to spite your face. Like it or not, we're all in this together. As someone who's always been careful to live within my means and put money away for a rainy day, I'm deeply resentful of all concerned who weren't as careful due to greed or stupidity. But there are no choices here. We're all tethered together, like it or not.

You know what pisses me off? The fact that everyone else is so outraged when they are the true cause of this collapse. As a 22 year old male I'm amazed that everyone is surprised. Who on earth takes out these colossal loans to "afford" a house and then is amazed when they have to make outrageous payments to truly afford their house? I'm shocked because you all supported the system, a system of lies and debt. You lied to afford a house you couldn't and now your all strapped for debt...hmmm, not so different from those executives you insult. If you defaulted on your mortgage I feel no sympathy for you. I can do the math. Hopefully my generation lives a little more within their means compared to the two previous generations that caused this whole disgrace. Despite what apparently 700 billion plus dollars of our economy thinks, loans do have to be paid back.

I agree. I have a friend who is losing her home. Because she wanted the house so bad she was put in a house she could not afford and she knew it. Now she is saying...wait I didn't know what kind of loan I had...oh please...

Gulp…gulp…gulp…haaaaaa. Fisherman = Sheeple

how dare Americans want their own house. That's outrageous! Don't you know, we should all live in the courtyards to shovel the cow sh*t while the kings live in the castle. Duh, econ 101, screw the average citizens.
HA!
I'm not saying there shouldn't be more responsibility of average citizens, but you cannot blame those who just wanted a place to live. But if we could come up with 700 billion, we certainly could come up with something better to help those who wish to refinance into something they could afford. Maybe that means a smaller house, ok, but it's not like you can sell your house in this mess and then just get another. Many are stuck with A. Don't pay and lose house and file bankruptcy, and try again in 7 years or B. Pay and be a sucker for losing hundreds of thousands of dollars. I didn't buy, but if my tax dollars are helping anyone, I'd rather it be to put people in homes than CEO's in mansions.

I don't know why people can't understand that is not Democrat or Republican but GREED!
It is about the rich becoming richer and us of lesser means becoming lesser. Both parties are working for the same goal. Don't think things will change if there is a change of parties in the White House. Sad to say but I think in the near future you will start seeing some people seeking vengeance, not in the courts but with their own hands. People can only take so much. Our system is beyond repair!

It doesnt matter if these executives are bailed out or not. You know they set aside millions for their severance packages regardless. Like usual, the average american gets screwed. But heck, we should be used to it after 8 years of BUSH/CHENEY.

I am tired of Wall Street and the Bankers that messed this up now coming up with scare tactics to bail them out. I decided today that I will not vote for any politician that votes for this bailout done hastily. I need to see a real, thought out, plan and a guarantee of monies being paid back. Let the parties that pushed for deregulation figure this mess out on their own. My street is nearly empty of families, lost to foreclosure, and my property value has declined to nearly half of my mortgage. Who is going to help me retire next year? I am in a bad mess here, no fault of my own, and have not asked the American people for a dime.

Watch out Warren Buffet just bought a chunk of Goldman Sachs!

Upper management at these corporations should be tried under the fullest extend of Sarbanes-Oxley, and thrown in prison for years. Those who put their faith in Wall Street for retirement or whatever may have to suffer the consequences. It is time for America to invest in things of lasting value.

Greed is part of the human condition, and over 20 years of deregulation has further enabled this financial failure. The political party pushing deregulation since Ronald Reagan is The Republican Party. The Republicans should bet tried by the voters this November and thrown out of office.

Ooops! Fisherman get the facts straight. The whole sub-prime mess started when Carter forced banks and lending institutions to loan to "sub-prime" parties (those who really would not qualify for a loan under any reasonable business strategy). The institutions were threatened by action from Janet Reno's forces if they did not comply--so comply they did. Pres. Clinton, enamored of the idea that everyone should own a home whether or not they could really afford it expanded on this notion.

Meanwhile, Freedie Mac and Fannie Mae were assuming a lot of the sub-prime paper and putting it on the books at book value--knowing it was junk. The CEO's of those institutions were collecting bonuses based on the numbers they were able to compile on the books--hence Obama's top financial advisor and CEO of one of the FM's took $90 million in bonuses etc. and was finally forced to disgorge his $40 M or so of his ill gotten gains.

You've heard Chris Dodd endlessly blathering on the last few days. Guess which politician got the most hand outs at the FM/FM trough. That would be Chris Dodd--pointing fingers any direction he can and loudly while hoping no one notices his complicity in the whole mess.

Guess who got just slightly less than Chris Dodd from these institutions since 1989. No, Fisherman, it was not a Republican. You like Chris Dodd are trying to point fingers at R's to keep from damning your own man.

Yup! It was Barak Hussein Obama who got the second amount of swag $$$$$ from these institutions.

Worse for the Fisherman's argument is the fact that Pres. Bush has tried for five years to get more oversight over the quasi-governmental FM/FM without support.

Folks if you vote anyone out get rid of Chris Dodd and Senator Obama--er candidate Obama--right in the middle with donations to him and with his complicity with having the CEO's of both failed institutions as financial advisors on his campaign. With him on board government will not solve the problem! Government will be the problem.

When he points a finger at Bush, Three are pointing right back at him.

I truly believe Forrest Gump would be a better candidate that Obama or McCain. Unfortunately, we have to choose between a rock or a hard place. People need to get off their too comfortable, lazy, self-interest, somebody is going to pay my way, that's not my problem, that won't happen here butts and VOTE. Plato said something to the effect of" when wise men fail to participate in their government, they choose to be ruled by unwise men". We are so there. The bailout is to buy back bad debt that foreign banks have so heavily invested in the US. The banks sold skeptical investments to attain more money and we the american people will bear the burden. Do ya really think any Wall Street executive is going to worry about his taxes this year. My local assessment office won't have the drop in property values reflected in what I pay this december. My home is worth less, my gasoline cost more, I am paying property taxes on the prior value assessed in the financial fraud reign, and now I get to tote the note to help pay the Chinese and Japanese banks off and insure the US can keep a good credit rating for more debt accumulation. Wall street executives can scream like a gut shot eagle for all I care. I work, pay my bills, vote, assume responsibility for my actions, try to teach my children the right things to do and help those less fortunate. I don't have a million dollars, but I got sense enough to do the right thing, even if I don't get financial gain from it. The unmitigated recklessness is being played out on the CNN and MSNBC stage as each day unfolds. Why are we even considering the plan of the men that have had lead roles in supposedly preventing this scenario. Evidently, they couldn't track a wooley mammoth through a muddy ditch. I hope the FBI investigation holds someone accountable.

Go to youtube and type in

EXPLOSIVE VIDEO, FANNIE MAE CEO CALLING OBAMA AND THE DEMS THE FAMILY FANNIE MAE

A picture is worth a thousand words

It's the Democrats who put the pressure on to get low income people into houses that couldn't really afford them. Obama talks about grassroots, yea he's grassroots all right. Ruined the economy from the bottom up!

It's the Democrats who put the pressure on to get low income people into houses that couldn't really afford them.

Wrong there. Bush pushed the same programs all throughout his terms (up until a week ago when he realized the banking industry is NOT sound).

Ruined the economy from the bottom up!

Yeah right. Ever heard of risk management? The biggest problem here isn't people who bought homes they couldn't afford. The fact is these banks knew they were making hugely risky loans but they did it anyway and then bundled them in securities to hide that fact. Now nobody has a clue whats in their portfolios.

IMO ..the blame goes to:

1) the greedy CEOs et al --who ran these companies into the ground to line their own pockets while hiding these risky loans in bundles.
Being pushed by government to sell houses people can't afford is no better an excuse than people who knowingly bought a house they couldn't afford.

2)Congress --mostly Republicans because it is their ideology of free markets,"let businesses regulate themselves" that created the drive for deregulation, Republicans who penned the legislation for bank deregulation. It is now finally obvious to them that greed has no bounds and businesses will NOT regulate themselves. Now is the time for Republicans to admit they were wrong instead of trying to pretend they were for regulation all along.

3) real estate speculators making a quick buck and expanding the real estate bubble which caused property taxes to go up and forced people out of their homes who were responsible, and in fact had paid off their homes, but couldn't afford the higher taxes.

4) people who knowingly bought a house they couldn't afford, lied about income etc.
There are plenty of people who listened to bad professional advice or lost their jobs due to these investment houses, mortgage companies, and banks.

An election is coming up and I don't trust anybody anymore. So since this is an election year I think we should put the question of the bailout on the ballot. At least then our voice will be heard and we will have to live with OUR decision. One question I haven't heard asked by anyone in the committee hearings is: How much is the interest payment that will be added to our budget? We only pay interest on the money for the Iraq war, maybe we will only pay interest on the 700 + Billion to bail out wall street. The light at the end of the tunnel is that maybe my GREAT GREAT GREAT grandchildren might live in a country with no debt. But maybe not.

You are the reason we're in the mess we are in STUPID !

$2 billion pay day for failure
Posted by: Nanette Byrnes on September 25

The top executives at AIG, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Lehman and Goldman Sachs pulled down more than $2 billion in pay over the past five years according to a new analysis by a professor at San Diego State University's Charles W. Lamden School of Accountancy, Dr. David DeBoskey.

Henry Paulson, who in his current role as Treasury Secretary is pushing for a bank bailout, accounts for $82 million of the total. That was his pay for three years (2003 to 2005) as CEO of Goldman Sachs. DeBoskey included the pay of 57 different individuals, pulling the data that companies report on their top 5 officials to the Securities & Exchange Commission, to get to the $2.1 billion total.

Now-bankrupt Lehman Brothers, the smallest of the five companies, was tops in pay. It doled out $743 million in compensation for all its top officers from 2003 through 2007. Next was Goldman Sachs with $726.5 million, then AIG at $336 million, Fannie Mae at $207.2 million and Freddie Mac at $90 million.

Applying the same analysis to a broader universe of banks, financial firms, insurers, mortgage brokers and others who DeBoskey identifies as the companies likely to benefit from the proposed bailout and the total executive pay comes to $27 billion.

Realistic Points:
- Fed's now own 80% of world largest investment bank, AIG
- Fed's now own 50% of US home mortgages
- Fed's now own more agriculture land than any family farm

The Feds have a crooked smile on their face saying, "we'll help you out", while having assets put in their name and paying for it with tax dollars (our money). Haven't the Feds called this type of 'buy-out' pouncing from one corporation onto another as a form of 'hostile take-over' and strangled it? Or not wanting a corporation to be bigger than the rest of its competition? Microsoft for instance. The percentage of fed ownership of corporate assets above snuffs the size of any corporation ownership. Only the feds have rule over their assets and your vote or opinion does not count. Picket, march, protest or whatever you want, they'll just keep doing what they're doing with a yawn of what you're doing. Feeling more like a serf in medieval times working for a king and lord than a US citizen? In the end we'll be going to the Feds for everything: loans, homes and food. Look at their percentage hold to date. The only difference is the time frame because the hierarchy is looking the same: king, lords and serfs. Taxes are going to go through the roof. Cities, counties and states will have to raise taxes because of lack of federal funds to the states due to this bail-out by the feds. You get to pay the bill several times over. Cities will bo bankrupt and be up for sale. Have already painted my sign: ME LORD IS HARSH. WILL WORK FOR FOOD.

Let's set the record straight here with the Truth! It doesn't matter who has control, the Democrat's or Republicans, they are ALL CROOKS and should go to prison for Crime's against Society's! "We the People..." have no true representation in our government, Fact not Fiction. Oh, we elect these folks who promise everything but deliver nothing, then say we did our Civic Duty by Voting! Congress has done nothing for 30 yearsto make us less dependent on Foreign Oil, why you ask, the answer is this: The Republicans receive more Donations for Campaigning from the Oil Industry Lobbyist, while the Democrats receive more Donations for Campaigning from the UAW and other Union Lobbyist. I Love this Great Nation of ours and served proudly in her Army but we really need a 2nd Civil War/Revolution to start fresh with just the Constitution which Demands this of us!!!! In my world, all Politicians will have Term Limits, so that a Senator can only serve 2 Terms (12 years Max) while the House of Representatives can only serve 6 Terms (12 years Max). If this does not happen we get entrenched politicians like Jessie Helms and Ted Kennedy who think they are Gods! Supreme Court Justices need to serve no more the 12 years not Life as it is now. I read the Constitution about regarding Supreme Court Justices and did not see where they get life time appointments! Also, during National Elections NO MEDIA should be allowed to report on and/or call a race regarding the ACTUAL VOTING until ALL 50 States Polls are Closed! The Media needs to stop influencing the Races with predictions that affect how and who they VOTE for in that cycle. Get the USA out of the United Nation and STOP ALL FORGEIN AID until we solve our own problems FIRST

obama's buddies in charge of fannie-mae and freddie-mac and what about our democratic congress and the wax bi@@ch, NP? Lets give them just a small part in not taking their responsibility.

Puh-leeeze! I always hear accusations coming back around to blame the two-year so-called "Democratic Congress" which means absolutely nothing as long as King George has the power of veto. Isn't it strange that King George didn't use his veto power once when it was a Republican Congress (since he gave those brigands carte blanche), but has used it 12 times with the Democratic Congress. It's not too difficult to connect the dots. First give the Democrats a super-majority in Congress, then you can start bad-mouthing them if things turn south. Any fool can see that pointing at the Democratic Congress as a cause of the problem just doesn't hold water. It's the bigger fool holding the magical veto wand whose Fantasy Land wings need to be clipped, and the sooner the better.

Interesting... when ever anything goes bad with business it MUST be the Republicans... it MUST be deregulation. It's an old song, and it just won't apply here. Did the Democrats decide that making sense was no longer necessary? I mean, first it's "drilling for oil won't lower prices". Right... and blocking oil production won't raise them, right?

Now, they expect us to believe that Mortgage Banking... an industry that is more partisan DEM than "Big Oil" is partisan Republican... has gone nuts over Republican deregulation. Deregulation, by the way, that was guided in a "bipartisan" way... because dim-witted Republicans who only seemed to care that some regulations went away let the Democrats with ties to banking pretty much decide which regulations went. Combine that stupidity with leaving the regulations pushing bad loans on the industry (institutionalized racism... having different standards depending on your race... insane), AND the fact that the two big ones Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were run by non-banking political buddies appointed by Clinton, who subsequently shifted funds and assets in horrid ways, just so they would get bigger bonuses.

It's wierd that while decrying the excesses of Executives, when given the chance, the Dems go above and beyond in the greedy, destructive manipulation field.

Yes.. deregulation didn't help much... as companies tried to find new ways to deal with really really bad investments forced upon them by the Feds. Yet the blame firmly lays with the bad debt heaped on the banking industry, not the ways they tried to scramble to save themselves.

It is not solely the people that over extended themselves,the poor don't equal enough for all the this mess,and yes deregulation and not enforcing the regulations is the cause of this mess,I hope the Dems stay strong and Keep out CEO 's golden parachutes,they don't need to get paid three times and don't hire these people to "fix" the problem they started,Bush's tax cuts are not trickling down,unless you count the black hole this Mess has turned into,or the even more weakened American dollar .

Amen to Craig's post. Any post that blames the Democratic majority in congress over the last two years despite the fact that they had no power to override a veto, while ignoring the complete control of our government by the Republican party from 2000 to 2006 should be deleted on the basis of having no merit whatsoever. I'm tired of the con job- give it up.

Eddie also seems to be in his own little world. You're blaming this mess on "institutionalized racism"? Are you kidding? This is the result of "really bad investments forced upon them by the Feds"?

Oil drilling is an issue not relevant to this article except for the fact that we don't trust the government to regulate the oil industry enough to keep a massive oil spill off of our shores. Do you wonder why we're a little hesitant to trust in the ability of our government to regulate corporate greed?

Finally, comments like 'the Dems go above and beyond in the greedy, destructive manipulation field' are just empty @!$%#ing.

I pretty much blame everybody in a government position, either side, don't say its all the republicans' fault because Bush vetoed everything Congress has sent at him the past 2 years, if they were really heart set on getting something passed, they could take it to court. Don't blame it all on the democrats because they hold all of the money, they can't just up and spend that without approval. I blame our Federal Reserve and everybody that decided to help with these bailouts, they were failing because they were greedy and were making stupid loans. As for Paulson and Bernanke, they both should be fired. In fact, can we get rid of our all of our National level politicians?

here's a new thought...NO BAILOUT....point fingers after we get back on tract...unchecked greed is the cause...more,more,more...me,me,me...now,now,now....wake up...who needs to be 700 billion more in debt?...capitolism is good,unchecked greed bad...why can't everyone have a small slice of the pie instead of a few having the whole thing?...NO BAILOUT!!!!!
do you think the banks /wall street would come to your aid if roles were reversed?

Craig Duckett, congress has to pass legislation before Bush can veto anything. This incompetent congress has done nothing in almost 2 years. Impeach Pelosi and Reid

Yeah Blame the third bank/insurance institution to go under,,there are 7 major backbone bank institutions of the economy(all now gone under) at least these are now gonna be loans to these latter companies not the give money away for nothing like bearsteins and others that came before,Plus bush and Repubs are the ones pushing deregulating everything,heatlh insurance,social sercurity,houseing,food safety(when you let companies like those that put B.P's
in our plastic water bottles,do the studies proving it is safe,then you take a independent study of average American on streets blood and find 93% with levels of B.P's that increase neural and behavioral problems,(maybe that's why so many kids have adhd)triple chances of heart disease,diabetes,etc..(that's just fundamentally wrong).The Dems have been warning of this very problem in the economy,NO ONE WAS LISTENING!!!At least the dems are holding out for NO GOLDEN PARACHUTES for CEO's(unlike the repub's),PLUS MCAIN IS STILL PUMPING TAX CUTS FOR THOSE CEO"S,even more than under BUSH/CHENEY
If anything get break up the 2 party system,All be independants,and files on Internet where we can see what they vote and why,and if added stupid pork,because not all have T.I.V.O,We need TRANSPARENCY in our GOVERNMENT until then please watch Cspan get your facts,Wall Street Needs a leash

You are so right, San Anton Kid, lets put all the facts out there:
1) Our government leaders (way back to Carter) freed up money to banks but added pressure for them to make riskier loans to individuals rather than the ones who could show they were responsible. The feeling was that the poor and/or minorities could not possibly get ahead if no one would lend them money. Obviously it was the greatest form of discrimination of the day. (yeah, right. What it really was, was banks doing a good job protecting and using their best judgement.) 2) With the risk being backed by government (taxes), and the bank CEO's willing to show investors grand profits thus making themselves huge paychecks, why not ride the wave. Well the wave just reached shore. (i think even Greenspan warned about this possibility ?)
3) The Lord is coming back. His reign will be in righteousness. What a concept.

Total hogwash!

While in your dad's time I would have subscribed to the same saying (especially when a crook like Nixon was in the White House) - it is no longer true. Since we elected a crook like Clinton into the White House the Democratic Party has changed. Most are now in it for themselves, or their party - at any cost to you, me or the country! A notable exception to that is Lieberman - and they booted him out. I do not see Obama as an exception, not with his roots in the Chicago politcal machine and not with his pick of Biden for VP.

I lament the passing of the days when I could look to the Democratic party to defend my civil liberties. Instead they invade people's homes, have SWAT teams (that look unnervingly like storm troops on their front page photos) shove Assult Weapons in the faces of unarmed women to force a child back to Cuba after his mother died bringing him to freedom. They take away peoples use of their land because some bird was sighted on their land, or catepillar, or frog. Each time they regulate something somehow we the people loose our choice of action, our freedoms. It goes on and on and on.

Now I'm not saying the Republicans are perfect. Many of them are also just for themselves, or for one of the conservative agendas. Which equates to much the same bad behaivor as the Democrates. A example of an exception for the Republicans is McCaine. He has always stepped up for what he feels is best for the nation. You may hate his views, many have over the years and hes been battered pretty good. The conservative branch of the Republican party view him with as much antipathy as the liberal branch of the Deocratic party. But right there that says something very positive to me about him.

I'm still listening to what both candidates have to say. I have to agree when both Obama an McCain say that the foundations of the economy are still sound - this disaster has been brought about by a greed bubble bursting. The rest of the economy didn't cause it and if we can 'fix it' quick enough those foundations will not be destroyed. Hopefully. We'll see, won't we?

Best of luck to all. Strap in for a rough ride.

Bush and McCain meant that the economy was fundamentally sound for THEM!

Shirley M.....your father was an idiot. All politicians, regardless of party affiliation, do only what is best for themselves.

Palin suggestion is to sell the bad paper we get from the banks for $700,000,000,000 on E-BAY.OMG that would be great!

Not only do the executives need to look at themselves, but Congress needs to take along hard look as well. And then We the People, need to take a long hard look at our Congress.

Bottom line "We The People" are the ones that should be taking this responsibility.

Just like Bush, American executives don't make mistakes. Just ask them.

As I have said, they did not make a mistake. They know what they are doing. They also know that there will be no penalties for them.

Who's been speaking out longer, Nader or Paul?

Yeah,I have only 2 neighbors on my street,they both are trying to sell their homes,3 yrs ago We were getting a loan to change out our 100 yr old windows,to save on oil,It was scary how many loan officers called us,and wanted to give us more than we wanted and for not a fixed rate which was our plan,pushing quite hard,Hubby and I didn't think it smelled right,so we stuck to our guns(sorry stupid metaphor)I am so glad we didn't get caught up in that mess,my one neighbor watched her payments(which she had no problem paying at first)double,then tripled,it was insane.

RAY, YOU speak my thoughts precisely!

QUOTE: "Let's get one thing straight. This was not caused by stupidity it was caused by greed. We the taxpayer's have to refund this mess at a cost of 700 billion dollar's. This money is not lost. Someone has it. Why do we not find out who has it and get it back? I know that sounds simplistic but it is true. It would take time and money to investigate and prosecute but it could be done. A lot of people made a whole lot of money through deceipt and fraud. Why are they allowed to keep these ill gotten gain's. These are professional's that have been at this game for many year's. Don't even try to tell me they just made mistake's. I am no financial wizard and I have been predicting this for year's as Bush was bragging about all the new home owner's under his guidance. I personaly have relative's that received home loan's during this time period and I could not believe it. Two out of three have already lost their home's because they could not afford them in the first place."

This money is NOT lost! SOMEONE has it! ACCOUNTIBILITY, folks!
If the Wall Street fat cats knew that THEIR pockets would be emptied out if this crap happened , we wouldn't be in this mess!

Yeah, Many of us saw it coming, but everytime I'd say anything to my rich republican friends, they'd look at me like I was crazy and insinuate that I was just being negative or "anti-american". Watching these greedy bastards pointing fingers just adds salt to the wounds. I am so freaking torn! I want the republicans ALL out of office, but on the other hand, I want them to win this election because that would mean the Republican party would be forever doomed; forever and never get in again after four more years.

And just where is the money coming from for this bailout? - We the people or foreign countries. Is anyone else worried about the sellout of America. With the housing market down and the ability to not be able to get a loan, just who is buying our country. Take a look around. It is getting scarier all the time.

Sir executives should get everything they negotiated for, and yes, that is capitalism at its greediest. However, my friend, when my government steps in supposedly on my behalf and says they can have a trillion dollars of mine, yours, and everyones money, then that is where I step in and say no, no, no!

As far as I am concerned their negotiation just became null and void. They are now negotiating with me, you and everyone other citizens of this country and everyones needs to say no to this. I would rather be on a soup/bread line then give these greedy criminals bastards a dime of my money.

the best and brightest

LOL....do you know something that we don't?

the best and brightest

nope, it has always been "it's who you know and who you blow" (sorry for the courseness).

Even at Wallstreet it is guilt of the "good ol' boys" network at a elite level.

Why shouln't executives get the golden parachutes they negotiated for? Thats capitalism, the best and brightest do better than everybody else.

gamerk2,

I believe this is what you meant to say. Why should executives get the golden parachutes they deceived others for? They shouldn't because the greediest and the most wicked don't deserve better than eveybody else.

GamerK2: "Playing devils advocate here: Why shouln't executives get the golden parachutes they negotiated for? Thats capitalism, the best and brightest do better than everybody else."

Basically what you are saying is; They can screw up royally at their job, lose billions of the company money, and still expect to get a bonus and pay raise? HAHAHAHA, thanks for the laugh.

The real world does not work that way. If we have to bail-out these incompetents, why should we also have to reward them for their incompetency? They are taking us to the cleaners, but that doesn't mean we have to drive them there too!

In fact, Congress should look into bringing criminal proceeding against a lot of these CEO's, COO's and CFO's of these failed companies. This is starting to smell!

Chris A. Agreed NO BAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough is enough.

But Chris, I put another, albeit,poorly written post up here that might enlighten you, if you look for the information. Start looking for and about a group called the Illuminati.

Yes, there is alot of hype around it, but don't let that fool you, go through it and read and listen to what these people have found out and then do some research on your own concerning the Federal Reserve and the plans for a New World Order. I'm telling ya, they are running us into the ground on purpose. This is all too much to swallow, CHris, not to have been on purpose. You are not going to like what you find out. Like I said, just don't get lost in the hype.

Once you have wrapped your mind around the reality of the existence of the Illuminati, be prepared, as in the movie The Matrix, to make the choice of wanting to take the red pill or the blue pill. What lies behind the Illuminati? Who is the Illuminati beholden to? Most people can not or will not venture there, so it is best to continue with your daily lives, walking through life with eyes wide shut. Be content to read your Bible and truly believe that this is a fight for our existence between Good and Evil Forces. Our leaders silence is bought for huge sums of money and unlimited power; Now who is in the position to grant such favors? The signs abound for those with eyes.

I agree in most part, however, there are many people out there that are not "irresponsible" just naive and preyed upon by lenders that took advantage of them. All people do not have the same degree of savvy, THAT is why we need regulation and THAT is why little by little it was peeled back. So the predators out there could prey on the weak (think car salesman at a higher level).

Shalom Michael Grassi and all others,

the Illuminati cabal runs the whole ("Arbeit Macht Frei") show globally, in every Land, including all the fronts that you may think divide and separate you from others (gender, race, language, nationality, religion, educational and income level, political & other opinions, etc.) as they have come up with all these divisions and made us believe that this is what reality is all about and that 'what we see is what we get,' and that what we see is all there is. This all is to keep us preoccupied in the illusory five-sense physical world that is all around us.

Kabbalah is the answer everyone is looking for and Matrix - another Illuminati film & production - was created to only deepen our confusion. And please, do not ever think of Madonna (or other 'celebrities') and Kabbalah in the same sentence or Thought, for this is just another Illuminati ruse.

Kabbalah is The Key to (y)our Sixth Sense in the here and now, from right where you are, to be connected to the Main Frame of Creation.

Do not take the red pill and do not take the blue pill but "receive," i.e. Kabbalah, this:

as all religion is a part of the Illuminati's mind game of deceit to keep us arguing anf fighting over "religious" matters, Judaism in NOT a "religion" at all as the world is taught and told, it is not one of the "three Abrahamic religions," nor is it "the mother-religion of Christianity" and there is no such thing as a "Judeo-Christian" (religious) heritage. This is all Illuminati invented Bull (!) of the past 2,000 years.

Judaism and Kabbalah are a universal teaching of metaphysics, of Mind Over Matter, to end all chaos and this is for all Humankind, for each and every human being, to bring each one of us back to the authentic and original Balance and Harmony of Creation in the here and now.

The Torah and The Zohar are our tools and vehicles of a de-coding beginning with our Thoughts as if they were the ultimate in self-help books/scrolls as the Arameic/Hebrew language is the DNA of all Creation (and this is one of the many reasons the Jews - and Israel since 1948 - have been hated, haunted and hunted):

"A Spiritual Genetic Code (by Billy Phillips in Kabbalah magazine of 1999)

Positive change in our character is as difficult to achieve as altering our physical DNA. But don't give up, the ancient Kabbalists explain that we can make the change we desire, by using the Spiritual Genetic Alphabet.

The 22 Forces of Creation

Twenty-two foundation letters: He engraved them, He carved them, He permuted them, He weighed them, He transformed them, and with them He depicted all that was formed and all that would be formed.

Abraham, The Book of Formation

Four thousand years ago, Abraham the Patriarch made an extraordinary statement concerning the unseen forces that built our universe. The Light of the Creator refracted, said Abraham, like sunlight striking an airborne water molecule after a rain. This refraction produced 22 distinct forces, in the same way that refracted sunlight produces the colors of the rainbow. These 22 forces then combined into countless configurations, giving birth to the diversity of matter and energy that make up the cosmos. These 22 energy forces manifest in our world as shapes and vibrations that we can both visualize and vocalize. Specifically, the 22 shapes are the 22 letter of the Hebrew alphabet.

(The Hebrew alphabet)

The world at large is not aware that these ancient shapes are much more than simply letter symbols for a language called Hebrew. In fact, there is a major misconception about the Hebrew alphabet. It is NOT exclusive to the Jewish people. The Hebrew letters preceded all religions. They came into existence at the very moment of creation - not as letters written on a piece parchment, but as magnificent forces of primordial energy. Kabbalah teaches that the Hebrew letters are universal shapes, the spiritual genetic alphabet of the entire universe - for all people, for all times.

The Eyes Are the Windows to the Soul

Because the Hebrew letters are the physical expression of the forces of creation, each letter represents a unique energy force. Different combinations of letters create different blends of energy, just as different combinations of musical notes create different melodies. Reading, vocalizing, meditating, or just visually scanning these letters and their various sequences helps to arouse various spiritual forces. Interacting with these letter, in any way possible, gives us a direct but subconscious connection to our Soul and the 99% realm of reality. Just as the shape of a key is the mechanism by which we open a door, the specific shapes of the Hebrew letters are the keys to open up the doorway to the Soul and to the Upper Worlds.

One of the most powerful ways for those not versed in the pronounciation of the Hebrew letters to capture their energy is through visual contact. When the eyes scans the shapes of the Hebrew letters, a resonance is created between the Light and our Soul. The same principle can be seen in a pair of tuning forks. When one fork is tapped, a resonance is created in the other, and the sound is duplicated. The human Soul and the forces contained within the Hebrew letters are each formed from the blazing Light of the Creator. When the two are in proximity - achieved when we visually scan, meditate, or recite the letters - a resonance is created and energy is tranferred to the Soul.

Imagine that you find yourself feeling weak and tired every day, without enough physical strength to carry on your normal activities. You conclude that you're probably out of shape and you decide to begin an exercise program. Aerobic training can be difficult at first, but after a few weeks you begin to find strength and vitality that you never had before. Extra oxygen kicks in when you need it.

The same principle applies to the Hebrew letters. The act of scanning and meditating upon the correct sequences of Hebrew letters is a spiritual workout, a metaphysical training regimen. When we need emotional strength to activate resistance against our reactive tendencies, spiritual oxygen kicks in giving us an extra boost of willpower.

In fact, synagogues were originally intended to be spiritual workout centers. The various sequences of the Hebrew letters would be the barbells and treadmills that helped one get spiritually fit. But the purpose of the synagogue became corrupted over the centuries. It became a house of worship, as if an almighty God requires His creatures to worship Him. The Hebrew letters somehow got associated with religion and language, and their essence and power were lost over time. Fortunately, we have Kabbalah to reveal the universal power of these letters - and to nurture continual internal change using the metaphysical properties of the Hebrew Alephbet."

All chaos and turmoil is part of the five-sense illusion we have been kept living under almost forever as we are spiritually 'unfit' so to say, focusing outward and on others instead of deep self-reflection and self-cleansing (vs. five-sense reality ethnic/other-cleansing).

In order for us to See and Receive, i.e. Kabbalah, everyone and everything around us and for us to even See and Understand ourselves in a "new" Light, with "new eyes" and a "new understanding," we need to correct our metaphysical i.e. spiritual vision to nurture a continual internal change using the metaphysical properties of the Hebrew Alephbet in here www.zohar.com for a true Reality Check to return to Oneness of all Humanity, aka "Gan Eden" frame and state of Mind, above and beyond all division and separation that the Illuminati's global machinery and media sells to us day after day to keep us insecure, fearful and uncertain of what's to come.

Many in the media would say that "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

But, why would you believe what anyone in the media says?

That's the Illuminati.

It is this simple.

Mind over matter.

Kabbalah.

Oh brother.

Say something more, DD50, comment on so I get a (Sixth) Sense of which way your "Oh brother" leans...

Here are two quotes from the Kabbalistic wall calendar of 5764 (for the lunar month of Tevet, the month of the manifestation of Mind over Matter):

"Today the stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe is beginning to look more like a great thought than like a great machine."
Fritjof Capra, Physicist

from the same calendar for the lunar month of Shevat (of Saturn - Perfection - and Aquarius) for "Peace on the Planet:"

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the Universe... We experience our thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of consciousness... a kind of prison... Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion, to embrace all living creatures and the whole... in its beauty."
Albert Einstein

Judaism and Kabbalah are a universal teaching of metaphysics, telekinetic power of mind over matter for all Humankind, no "Jewish religion."

Israel and especially Jerusalem is the spiritual center and well for metaphysical ("white gold" that is literally priceless on two levels, the physical and the metaphysical level) energy for all Humankind to re-achieve a Goodwill toward all Mankind -frame and state of Mind of "love thy neighbor" and the more political, religious and other anger, chaos, division (Illuminati "Two State Solution"), frustration and fear can created there, the more angry, chaotic, divided, fearful and frustrated we all become, as metaphysics teaches us that "like attracts like," and equally, "an eye for an eye" on a spiritual level.

Politicians and religious leaders benefit from all chaos and division.

But, all Hope/Hatikvah is not lost for "we've got the power, we've got the power:"

"The Hebrew letters are the instruments of Creation. They are genetic strands of cosmic DNA. The letters transcend religion, race, geography, and the very concept of language. They are instruments of power.

This truth is found within the Hebrew word for "letter," which means "pulse" or "vibration," indicating a flow of energy. By virtue of their shapes, sounds, sequences, Hebrew letters radiate a wide range of forces. Their influence is universal, their scope, sweeping. Their power is shared with all mankind, though this pentrating truth has been concealed for millenia. Their sacred energy removes rash and intolerant emotions, fear and anxiety from our beings. Their spiritual influence cleanses distructive impulses from our natures. The Light they emit purifies our hearts.

All these spiritual benefits, and more, are now bequethed to us in this majestic passage discoursing on the Creation of the spiritual and physical cosmos."

Zohar Trumah

Shalom to all.

The Federal Reserve Bank is an independent central bank that works within our government and falls under the oversight of Congress. Its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive branch of government.

That means actions by the Federal Reserve is monitored by Congress as demonstrated by this current bailout plan that needs Congress's approval before the funds can be used. So if there is a conspiracy here then we need to look at Congress and the two parties within also.

You are correct in this concerning the Democrats blocking this, but there is one thing you do not disclose when stating this and that is that there were stipulation added to this referendum that would give these institutions rights and privileges with money given to them that no company in the US has ever gotten from our government. Things like being able to obtain further funds if the reforms didn't work as planned and extra funds were needed, and needed in the eyes of the people running these institutions, not needed in the eyes of the government.

So please when stating comments please state the whole comment and not just the comment that suits your opinion.

Read, read, read. that is the only way that people like you become informed.

. In both chambers this legislation was DEFEATED on a party line vote, all rebublicans for it and ALL Dems against.

Which legislation was that? People keep talking about about the bill the McCain co-sponsored when Congress was DOMINATED by Republicans who did everything that Bush told them to do...but that bill died in committee which AT THAT TIME was controlled by REPUBLICAN Senator, Richard Shelby.

What other legislation was voted on since then?

Florida, do you know how congress works? The legislation was proposed in 2005. While the republicans had controll of the congress in majority numbers, they did not have effective control meaning filibuster proof 60 members in the senate. The senate rule are set-up so one member can block legislation and it take 60 to pass it. LEARN!!

You are absolutely right! You hit the nail right on the head. Bulls eye! A direct hit.

Now, the media should make the fact that Republicans have caused every economic downfall crisis in this country for the last 60 years known for all to see, and if it is not believe then lthey can actually research the data, it is there for all to see and read. It is the Democrats that have gotten in back on track every single time.

You mean Reagan who had to deal with a Democrat congress? It seems the Democrats are the ones who believe in creationist economics.

I"m sorry, I didn't realize that the executive branch set policy all by themselves. When did this happen? In reality the congressional branch is responsible for determining
the level of regulation and since they have not been able to pass much of any bills to
avoid this crisis here we are in the middle of one. Time to stop wasting energy on finding
blame and start climbing out of this hole we dug for ourselves.

Man, I haven't heard about the gold standard since I was a finance major 20 years ago. That is a good point you made and I'm surprised that the concept isn't brought up.

Is there enough gold in existance to back up all the worthless paper that we use now?

Is there enough gold in existance to back up all the worthless paper that we use now?

probably, whoever we do not own any gold anymore...at least there has not been a through accounting of Fort Knox gold reserves for over 30 years.

This too is congresses job to audit the gold in fort knox...well that has not been done to my knowledge for over 30 years.

The gold has been is no longer there and has been replaced with Treasury Notes. :-)

If we had enough gold to back up the trillions in debt we wouldn't have inflation or currency devaluation. The was the reason for getting off the gold and silver standard and using Federal Reserve Notes was so they didn't have keep adding gold to the reserves.

Sorry, but America has the largest gold reserve in the world.

We may have the largest gold reserve but it's not doing us a bit of good right now because the public doesn't have access to it. If you want some you'll have to buy American Gold Eagles at over $900 an ounce currently plus a premium and shipping.

That gold is not to back up or be exchanged for Federal Reserve Notes nor is it going to be used to pay Treasury bonds and notes that foreign countries hold.

Duh!

Bretton Woods was the town in New Hampshire where, in July of 1944, American and British officials gathered to set up a monetary system that would restore global trade and economics after the war. The Bretton Woods system was based on the conviction that the world should not return to the laissez-faire chaos of the 1930's, when exchange rates were allowed to float and fluctuate wildly. The Bretton Woods agreement established that the dollar would be the fixed center of a new economic solar system. Each country would declare a value of its currency against the dollar, and it would be allowed to float only 1 percent up or down. The dollar would be linked to gold at a rate of $35 an ounce. Any country that piled up dollars could come to the teller window at Fort Knox and redeem them for gold at that fixed rate....For about 25 years the system worked fine, until the Vietnam War and Great Society programs triggered serious inflation in the United States. As America's trade deficits with Europe and Japan grew, and dollars started piling up abroad, the Western allies rushed to redeem their dollars for gold before they were eroded by American inflation. President Nixon imposed wage and price controls to dampen inflation, but he also decided that he would devalue the dollar to make American exports cheaper and stimulate export-led growth. Since Bretton Woods barred such a devaluation, Mr. Nixon devalued Bretton Woods. He unilaterally abrogated the treaty, closed the gold window, and soon thereafter let the dollar float. In Japan, they called it the "Nixon Shocku."

Can we see the woods for the trees yet? Nixon, Reagan, Bush One and Two....

except nixon had to give up the last 50 billion after vietnam

Hetep and Respect Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus, good to see you friend.

Sorry, but America has the largest gold reserve in the world.

How would we know, as the Federal Reserve is not Federal and as far as anyone knows, as a matter of fact, has no reserves. The have never permitted an audit.

If you have and audit of the "Fed" please link.

The problems we are facing today aren't a party issue they are a Washington issue. We need term limits to clean house. We need people that are concerned with the public and not getting re-elected.

Gee, Bush's adminstrations fault, Hmmmmm, why didn't the DEMOCRATS pass his oversite bill in 2005,

What do the Democrats have anything to do with it? As you well know, the Republicans completely controlled Congress at that time and followed Bush's lead on nearly everything.

Rebublicans did not completely controll congress. A 60 seat majority in the senate is required for control. You should know what you are talking about before posting!

Go to youtube and type in

EXPLOSIVE VIDEO, FANNIE MAE CEO CALLING OBAMA AND THE DEMS THE FAMILY FANNIE MAE

A picture is worth a thousand words

It's the Democrats who put the pressure on to get low income people into houses that couldn't really afford them. Obama talks about grassroots, yea he's grassroots all right. Ruined the economy from the bottom up!