Dems, some in GOP question McCain's intervention

Except for the fact that McCain is holding it all up... I wonder why??? Do you think it's going to be for the benefit of the middle class????? Try looking up Keating 5 for starters... GOP has and IS STILL TRYING to bring the middle class down to its knees.. and anyone that does not see that coming is obviously working for a big big corporation and trying to scam us all!!! ENOUGH.. VOTE DEMS! We actually give a crap about our fellow man vs. corporations.

McCain sat in that meeting and barely said a word. What was his purpose then? If he is not offering any input to the solution, then he needs to make sure he is on time to the debate. His own party doesn't know which side he stands on. Who the heck wants to vote for this moron?

As a matter of fact, i don't need a debate to know McCain is full of Gimmicks and Palin has no idea what her role is. Who needs this crap at this time!

And people who support McCain, who are in his camp are like sports fans, but the team is suppose to be America and they are all traitors in my eyes. They keep covering the fact that McCain is senile and has no clue about anything.

niafabo, they say "some" because it's significant - that some in his own party questioned his actions. If significantly less Republicans questioned his actions than did Democrats, the word "some" is completely appropriate. It has nothing to do with the party of the author.

Rob_NC

..might do a little research my friend...

So completely in awe of Mccain he even talks like him lol!!

You might also do a little research...my friend... and God Bless arcanebliss for seeding it!

http://arcanebliss.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/25/1912785-in-march-2007-obama-called-on-paulson-bernanke-to-address-economic-crisis

Obama Urges Bernanke, Paulson to Fight Foreclosures, Hold Homeownership Summit
Thursday, March 22, 2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Ben LaBolt

WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Senator Barack Obama today sent a letter to Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Paulson urging them to immediately convene a homeownership preservation summit with key stakeholders to fight foreclosures driven by growth in the subprime mortgage market.

The text of the letter is below:

Dear Chairman Bernanke and Secretary Paulson,

There is grave concern in low-income communities about a potential coming wave of foreclosures. Because regulators are partly responsible for creating the environment that is leading to rising rates of home foreclosure in the subprime mortgage market, I urge you immediately to convene a homeownership preservation summit with leading mortgage lenders, investors, loan servicing organizations, consumer advocates, federal regulators and housing-related agencies to assess options for private sector responses to the challenge.

We cannot sit on the sidelines while increasing numbers of American families face the risk of losing their homes. And while neither the government nor the private sector acting alone is capable of quickly balancing the important interests in widespread access to credit and responsible lending, both must act and act quickly.

Working together, the relevant private sector entities and regulators may be best positioned for quick and targeted responses to mitigate the danger. Rampant foreclosures are in nobody's interest, and I believe this is a case where all responsible industry players can share the objective of eliminating deceptive or abusive practices, preserving homeownership, and stabilizing housing markets.

The summit should consider best practice loan marketing, underwriting, and origination practices consistent with the recent (and overdue) regulators' Proposed Statement on Subprime Mortgage Lending. The summit participants should also evaluate options for independent loan counseling, voluntary loan restructuring, limited forbearance, and other possible workout strategies. I would also urge you to facilitate a serious conversation about the following:

* What standards investors should require of lenders, particularly with regard to verification of income and assets and the underwriting of borrowers based on fully indexed and fully amortized rates.

* How to facilitate and encourage appropriate intervention by loan servicing companies at the earliest signs of borrower difficulty.

* How to support independent community-based-organizations to provide counseling and work-out services to prevent foreclosure and preserve homeownership where practical.

* How to provide more effective information disclosure and financial education to ensure that borrowers are treated fairly and that deception is never a source of competitive advantage.

* How to adopt principles of fair competition that promote affordability, transparency, non-discrimination, genuine consumer value, and competitive returns.

* How to ensure adequate liquidity across all mortgage markets without exacerbating consumer and housing market vulnerability.

Of course, the adoption of voluntary industry reforms will not preempt government action to crack down on predatory lending practices, or to style new restrictions on subprime lending or short-term post-purchase interventions in certain cases. My colleagues on the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs have held important hearings on mortgage market turmoil and I expect the Committee will develop legislation.

Nevertheless, a consortium of industry-related service providers and public interest advocates may be able to bring quick and efficient relief to millions of at-risk homeowners and neighborhoods, even before Congress has had an opportunity to act. There is an opportunity here to bring different interests together in the best interests of American homeowners and the American economy. Please don't let this opportunity pass us by.

Sincerely,

U.S. Senator Barack Obama

Chuck1968

You might also do a little research...my friend... and God Bless arcanebliss for seeding it!

what's your point? Rob_NC seems to be addressing Libra7288 who said:

Typical McCain, trying to take credit for the work and ideas that someone else has had or done first!

and his response #2.4 points to very specific and detailed accusation against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that McCain made in 2005 which includes the comment:

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market.

.

You showed us something from Obama from a year and half ago AFTER he noticed foreclosures were a problem...just like many other senators. You understand that McCain's pre-2005 predates Obama's early 2007? How's that demonstrate the silly notion that McCain takes other people's ideas? Hmmm?

What's your point?

Prime example of Barack's insight into dealing with a problem. Barack is looking SO presidential every day compared to "irratic McCain". I think the Democrats are doing "much more" to protect the taxpayers interest in this bailout than the Republican leadership has done. At least they agree Paulson shouldn't get but 1/3 of the money up front and that the progress of the bailout will be monitored very closely to see if its having the desired effect, before any more money is released by the Congress. There have at least been several good ideas presented by the Democrats. I want to make sure the bailout is going to free up credit for ALL of main street and not just those that have a high credit score. If people aren't able to refinance or renegotiate their mortgages, foreclosures will continue to skyrocket. Barack seems to be the only one concerned with mainstreet though.

I certainly don't like the idea of the poor working class having to bail out the rich and I can understand how everyone finds this idea repulsive. We're not the ones who have received huge severance packages when we lost our jobs. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY REPUBLICANS ARE SO OUTRAGED OVER THE BAILOUT? They're the ones who voted in the Party of "deregulation" in the first place, so I think they should be first in line to pay for this debacle. The real joke though is that "now" its the republicans that just can't vote for this bailout that they created in the first place. What a country!

"This is the president's own party," said Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, a chief Democratic negotiator. "I don't think a president has been repudiated so strongly by the congressional wing of his own party in a long time."

Well an election is coming for them too. Voters are not happy to bail out Paulson's old gig, Goldman Sachs, or AIG with their credit default swaps on every adjustable-rate McMansion in the country.

Maybe Congress knows which side their bread is buttered on, and has decided to do the people's will this one little time.

On the other hand, maybe it's just more irrational suicidal grandstanding. Either way, as they (used to) say on Wall Street - it's all good.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha No Deal. I wanted to use that 10K to pay for some road and bridge work anyway.

The only thing McCain succeeded in doing is to embarrass himself with another pathetic display of self aggrandizement dressed up in his country first rhetoric. I am going to Washington because I put my country first the statement is nothing more than a classic example of puffery. He is simply a shameless huckster who got caught literally dozing off at the bargaining table. This shows that McCain's penchant for petulance is the rule not the exception with each such display being more scary than the previous one. How can he be taken seriously after this fiasco. Oh yeah he will be going to the debate tonight after all.

petulance

Yes, perfect. This is a perfect description of this week's posturing.

However, having just finished watching the debate, he won big-time on body language. He did not glance at Obama once during that debate, meanwhile Obama was looking at McCain ON CAMERA then entire time whenever hen answered a question...It looked bad for Obama at the gross physical level where most voters exist.

The real joke though is that "now" its the republicans that just can't vote for this bailout that they created in the first place. What a country!

I thought the real joke is that the democrats, the party of the people and not the "fat cats" are all in favor of the people bailing out the fat cats. That's a much better joke.

Except for the fact that McCain is holding it all up... I wonder why???

Please explain the conclusion that McCain caused this delay when:

1) The Democrats have enough to votes to pass the bill even if not one single Republican supports it. Does McCain have that much influence in the Democratic Party?

2) More Democrats voted No on the bill than Republicans voted yes.

3) 40% of Democrats were opposed to the bill, which proved it did not have overwhelming support even in the Democratic party

4) 60% of Democrats are siding with George Bush

5) McCain sides with George Bush 95% of the time... and I guess the 5% he doesn't is still a problem... lmao at that thought... damned if you do... damned if you don't.

The only way this delay is laid on McCain is if you can prove that he has enough power to influence 40% of the Democratic party, which, if true, doesn't bode well for Barack Obama.

Are you fine with not having a president for the past 8 years?
Get real.

Quite fine, actually!

Are you fine with not having a president for the past 8 years?

Jesus, I wish we hadn't had a President for the last 8 years. We would have been a much happier, healthier, wealthier and moral nation.

..might do a little research my friend...

govtrack

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae's former chief executive officer, OFHEO's report shows that over half of Mr. Raines' compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator's examination of the company's accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

Quick Info
S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005
Last Action: Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. Ordered to be reported with an amendment in the nature of a substitute favorably.
Status: DeadI join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation

..and that my friend was Senator John McCain...wanna guess who filibuster and stopped the legislation ?
....with Dodd and Frank at the very front of this is soooo ludicrous...

..full text..

Yea Rob, but you're talking to the peanut gallery....I've posted quotes from Frank when he opposed regulation of FMay/FMac...and you STILL have people that want to argue otherwise...

.and that my friend was Senator John McCain...wanna guess who filibuster and stopped the legislation ?
....with Dodd and Frank at the very front of this is soooo ludicrous...

This died in a committee that was chaired by Senator Richard Shelby R-ALA. and never got out of that committee, due to the similar house version (H.R. 1461), being thoroughly gutted and passed by near 100% republicans and almost half of the dems.

Not to mention that S. 109 was resurrected, again by Charles Hagel (S. 1100: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2007), which was introduced Apr 12, 2007. To date McCain has not bothered to add his name as a co-sponsor or provide any speeches that are related to this bill. Of course, in all fairness, he may have forgotten to suspend his campaign long enough to discuss this aspect of economic acuity.

Interesting Rob_NC brackets the McCain quote by addressing us as "my friends". Now who else is it that over uses that phrase? hm?

I've seen the same chunk of copy pasted into several discussions. Did this appear on McCain's list of talking points for point grubbing McCain comment trolls ?

gatorhater has the main points covered in 2.7 and HennaRinse has done the homework on S.190.

@Rob & Hooz,

Where can I find a link regarding the blocking of this legislation by the Democrats? Did it make it out of committee? Was it dropped with the passage of H.R. 1461?

It seems strange because this was during the Republican majority in both houses of congress.

If you haven't checked it yet, go to the link in 2.8 to the Slate post by HennaRinse. And then go to the article seeded by ArcaneBliss here and follow it through.

They are all a bunch of hypocrites. Republican and Democrat alike. They all did this and we are idiots if we join in the finger pointing. We need a solution now. A sound financially responsible solution that does not rape the taxpayer even further. Check out DaveRamsey.com he offers a sensible solution backed up with sound reasoning. Yeah he's a conservative but who gives a rats! We are doing no good with all of our hallybooing here on NewsVine. Contact your Representative or Senator and tell them to check into this alternative plan.

I've seen the same chunk of copy pasted into several discussions. Did this appear on McCain's list of talking points for point...

If you spot people spamming comments, click on the report ! at the top of the page and report the author and the comment number. Everyone reporting comments and users trying to skew the discussion, violate the CoH or engage in professional PR activity, regardless of which point of view they hold, benefits individuals who genuinely debate and discuss. Use your ! powers and vote!!

..Ken PAC NW...Yeah it`s FOX..but hey you think the others are going to tell you my friend.. .... LINK ....

Pamela..would you expand on your comment,please.....

Thanks for the link Rob. But this was during the Republican congressional majority? It looks like H.R. 1461 passed in the House, but was never taken up in the Senate so never became law??

H.R. 1461 Note the amendments, of this bill, that did not pass. Especially... H.Amdt. 599: Amendment sought to replace the language in the bill concerning minimum capital levels. amending H.R. 1461 [109th]: Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

H.Amdt. 600: Amendment sought to authorize the regulator to require one or both of the GSEs to dispose or acquire assets or liabilities if the regulator deems those assets or liabilities to be a potential systemic risk to the housing or capital markets, or the financial system. amending H.R. 1461 [109th]: Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

H.Amdt. 601: Amendment sought to eliminate the ability of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, to borrow from the Treasury. amending H.R. 1461 [109th]: Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

H.Amdt. 602: Amendment sought to strike the language in the bill that raises the Conforming Loan Limit for certain areas. amending H.R. 1461 [109th]: Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005

This was the house version of S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

The meat of the house version was cut out. Efforts to reconcile the 2 bills were deemed fruitless. This version was re-introduced in the 110th congress (current)...S. 1100: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2007 McCain was a co-sponosr of the 2005 bill, but apparently had "suspended" his support by 2007.

Ken you are correct it never got out of committee...another little take on it...

Except that he showed up at the end of the game and proceeded to screw it all up! By interjecti9ng his own campaign and ambitions into the process he blew it up.

"all of a sudden, now that we are on the verge of making a deal, John McCain airdrops himself to help us make the deal."-Barney Frank

Ironic, that Frank, of all people, makes this comment. Considering he's the chair of the HFSC. But then some of these Democrats quoted in the article understand responsibility to mean "that guy did it".

But then, as it appears, there's no deal at the moment. Which means his and all the other comments on McCain were complete BS in first place.

But then, as it appears, there's no deal at the moment.

There was, until McCain pissed all over it.

The Republican core equals about 40% of the population. Of that 40%, at least 30% are not able to discern misinformation versus facts...or more accurately, they want to hear what they want to hear.

You know what torture delivers? The answers you want to hear. See any correlation?

Let's just hope the other 50% + of the electorate will be enough to get change.

There would have been a deal, but with MCcain and Obama, the masterminds weren't able to talk freely (draining one last bit of our money before the end of his term comes.

Well, how do you expect Obama to "talk freely" with McCain when he called him at 8:30 a.m. and didn't hear from him until 2:30 p.m.? Who is not talking to who?

If McCain had been serious about working in a nonpartisan manner to solve this crisis, he would have had the decency to call Barack back and discuss the reservations he had about the plan and try to come up with a joint policy proposal. Unfortunately, these republicans are more concerned about being "on the record" as far as voting for the bailout because some of them are coming up for election soon. It of course won't make any difference after people lose their homes, their businesses, their savings, etc., because when they vote, they'll STILL REMEMBER THAT THE PERSON RUNNING FOR RELECTION IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FINANCIAL CRISIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Please will of course vote for ANY democrat.

seriously? with the GOP majority for 12 years and a GOP Pres, Dodd and Obama are still crooks?????????

Pssst, OC..... keating 5. Don't cut my mic, bro!

Oh ya, the Republican party has been chomping at the bit to 'Reform'.

The Democrats are not blameless here (mostly spineless) but to have the audacity to say Republicans have been trying reform anything is just mind boggling.

BTW, pay no attention to the money Fannie & Freddie paid the folks wit a (R) next to their name, just keep demonizing the other team.

yeah them dems in the super minority in everything where really in control. Don't you khknow e dems are why we are in iraq.. caused 9-11.. cause everythign bad in the bush admin.

More like Freddie Mac lining the pockets of McCain's campaign manager up through and until last month!!!!!!

Um, Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager, got money from Fannie Mae as recently as a month ago.

VirtualMessiah, it's only mind-boggling if you can't read.

In 2003, Frank opposed Bush administration and Congressional Republican efforts for the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis.

Under the plan a new agency would have been created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis," Frank said. He added, "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

In 2003, Frank opposed Bush administration and Congressional Republican efforts for the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis.

Can you provide the specific legislation that you are referring to. I have free time and would love to read the entire bill.

Hooz,

I'm not trying to be condescending but the faltering of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae has nothing to do with our current crisis. Those two organizations are supposed to offload mortgages that is literally their job. Behr Sterns had been losing money/stock value for quite sometime before problems with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

All of the regulation in the world with those two agencies, would have done absolutely nothing to overt this current crisis. Remember the problem is this, banks made bad loans, investment banks made credit default swaps on those bad mortgages, people defaulted on mortgages owned by Freddie Mac / Fannie Mae and other commercial banks, as result every mortgage equally has a stock value of sorts that's basically become worth nothing.

Louie, Yes McCain was involved with the Keating 5, he was exhonorated, are you forgetting the other four of the five were Democrats? Or is this all you have?

Are the other four of the five running for President? Or are you just spouting partisan rhetoric?

Steve do you know what exhonorated means?

Sigh. If you're ignoring my response, I'm ignoring yours. I stick my tongue out at you.

Fannie May was doing what it was supposed to be set up to do back then..... It was doing well and not corrupt.. stop using talking points and go out and educate yourself before you start writing unless of course you deliberately like spreading lies and muddying up the waters as usual.

Daddy, you' ve convinced me. I won't vote for Frank. Oh ... I can't vote for Frank. I live in Texas.

Can't we keep this thread remotely connected to the seed article rather than wander into random flames and finger pointing?

Bev, "exhonorated" does not mean anything, "exonerated" does.

Details of the said exoneration:
Charles Keating was convicted of racketeering and fraud in both state and federal court after his Lincoln Savings & Loan collapsed, costing the taxpayers $3.4 billion. His convictions were overturned on technicalities; for example, the federal conviction was overturned because jurors had heard about his state conviction, and his state charges because Judge Lance Ito (yes, that judge) screwed up jury instructions. Neither court cleared him, and he faces new trials in both courts.)

Though he was not convicted of anything, McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating after Keating gave McCain at least $112,00 in contributions. In the mid-1980s, McCain made at least 9 trips on Keating's airplanes, and 3 of those were to Keating's luxurious retreat in the Bahamas. McCain's wife and father-in-law also were the largest investors (at $350,000) in a Keating shopping center; the Phoenix New Times called it a "sweetheart deal."

More details if interested:

Keating was more than a constituent to McCain--he was a longtime friend and associate. McCain met Keating in 1981 at a Navy League dinner in Arizona where McCain was the speaker. Keating was a former naval aviator himself, and the two men became friends. Keating raised money for McCain's two congressional campaigns in 1982 and 1984, and for McCain's 1986 Senate bid. By 1987, McCain campaigns had received $112,000 from Keating, his relatives, and his employees--the most received by any of the Keating Five. (Keating raised a total of $300,000 for the five senators.)

After McCain's election to the House in 1982, he and his family made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, three of which were to Keating's Bahamas retreat. McCain did not disclose the trips (as he was required to under House rules) until the scandal broke in 1989. At that point, he paid Keating $13,433 for the flights. And in April 1986, one year before the meeting with the regulators, McCain's wife, Cindy, and her father invested $359,100 in a Keating strip mall.

The Senate Ethics Committee probe of the Keating Five began in November 1990, and committee Special Counsel Robert Bennett recommended that McCain and Glenn be dropped from the investigation. They were not. McCain believes Democrats on the committee blocked Bennett's recommendation because he was the lone Keating Five Republican.

In February 1991, the Senate Ethics Committee found McCain and Glenn to be the least blameworthy of the five senators. (McCain and Glenn attended the meetings but did nothing else to influence the regulators.) McCain was guilty of nothing more than "poor judgment," the committee said, and declared his actions were not "improper nor attended with gross negligence." McCain considered the committee's judgment to be "full exoneration," and he contributed $112,000 (the amount raised for him by Keating) to the U.S. Treasury.

So true Bev, he was theoritically exonerated of any legal wrongdoing, but showed "poor judgement". Which he continues to show. Also, if you read the whole story it will be very clear that he was close to Keating, took money from him, invested in his ventures, and rallied for him either with full knowledge of Keating's wrongdoings or with a total lack of judgement.

Conservatives (Republicans/Libertarians) are pro-deregulation, big business, Wall Street, etc. The Republicans have controlled Congress for six of the last eight years--actually longer including time before Bush. The Dems have had only a slim majority in the last two years, so nothing can be passed without Republican backing, and the Dems are not able to block anything.

Beverly H, and others who have made the argument that McCain was exonerated regarding Keating Five...guess what, Clinton also was acquitted. So what does this mean, innocence? The other four of the Keating Five were no longer in office within six years of the scandal. The only reason McCain survived is because Arizona had become a Republican (red) state where the core supporters turned a blind eye (probably due to the good ole POW shield) allowing him to remain unopposed.

McCain cheated on his wife (Carol), he tried to cover-up Cindy's drug addiction/stealing, and many other incidents that show a basic character of dishonesty and self interest. If Obama had this background, the Republicans would be in an uproar. Such a person could never be considered, not even remotely.

The Republican Party is comprised of people in denial and in fear of the lies they are told. Some know McCain is a pig without lipstick, but they've been told that Democrats are evil, that Obama is the Manchurian Candidate, etc. and they actually believe it. Ironic since McCain is the only presidential candidate that has been tortured and under control of foreign agents. If he wasn't brainwashed, he's certainly not stable and possibly senile.

YEA Fela they are crooks

If this is so true then why are your beloved Dems who are now in a position of authority majority, blaming McCain for ruining everything by coming to DC, even after Reid said they needed his support. They could just pass whatever bill they wanted now to fix all this mess, the once Rep. majority made, right? Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are better at the blame game than actually accomplishing anything. If they had stood up for anything they were elected to do in 2006 instead of just repeating grievances over and over again, maybe they wouldnt have a 9% approval rating right now. I mean even the mentally inept pres. we have right now has a higher approval rating. The Dems could pass this garbage right now if they wanted to but they dont want to be the only one who takes a bite of the apple....I mean that would mess up their later plans to gripe about the people who passed it.
Right now we need a better plan. I'm not falling for the "sky is falling" or the shopping channel line "buy now before we're all out" line anymore w/this administration. We fell for it with the Patriot Act that was passed and Iraq. I usually vote Rep. not always but usually and I can't believe it has been a Republican pres. that has pushed us this close to Socialism/Communism. I mean it makes me wonder why they dont want national health care and income redistribution...those plans seem right up their alley as of late. I for one dont want this bill or anything close to it being passed and would like to get back to a capitalistic democracy populist country.
Demand more for your allegiance people. The Dems and Reps besides a small handfull on both sides are all draining the bucket from underneath us while we gripe about the drops either side take from the top. This partisan crap they spout is really all a distraction to avert our attention while they hijack our freedoms and future progress.

Julie the Democrats do not truly have a majority. They cannot pass this bill alone. I wouldn't call Joe Lieberman a majority.

The way he was following McCain around the halls of congress yesterday, I'd call Lieberman McCains little lap dog!

The way he was following McCain around the halls of congress yesterday, I'd call Lieberman McCains little lap dog!

Ah, so I wasn't the only one who noticed that. I never liked Lieberman. Now I just feel sorry for him.

Right On, R. Donald Snyder!

I am sick of the McCain campaign claiming credit for doing nothing but grandstanding, bandwagon jumping and spreading malicious lies!

Are his supporters really that ignorant, or is it just a matter of "party first" like "country first"?

All I can say is that his sorry "behind" needs to get on a plane or a bus to Mississippi today, or he's just throwing his campaign away. He can run, but he can't hide forever!

Absolutely!

I have been waiting on these debates.

This is on Foreign policy.

What the hell is McChicken Little afraid of?

Yeah, McCain afraid of a FOREIGN POLICY debate?? Are you serious??? Do you realize just how preposterous that sounds? Hussien Obama thinks that all he has to do is talk and the problems will go away. Ol' Hussien is too busy trying to look and sound like he IS the President rather than DO HIS JOB. Just in case any of you forgot, Hussien IS a United States Senator!! HIS PLACE OF DUTY WAS IN D.C. Now, all of you out there that just don't care that the dude has to be told by the President that a United States Senator needs to be in D.C. during this crisis, what kind of excuses are you going to make when he decides that he just don't feel like doing his job IF he gets elected President. I guess that in his mind, HIS campaign comes before the People. HIS wants and desires will be satisfied BEFORE his duty that we elected him to do will be done! John McCain didn't need to be told by the President to come to D.C.; John McCain KNOWS what his duty is, why he was elected, and who he is to serve first (and just a hint for you clueless dems out there- he knows that he is to SERVE THE PEOPLE FIRST, himself last!). Oh, wait, they don't teach that in "community organizer" school, do they? My gosh, if I didn't know better, I would say that Senator McCain is displaying a LEADERSHIP TRAIT that is very important- SELFLESS SERVICE. Hussien hasn't shown ANY leadership traits- he's shown an ability to talk and criticize, but nothing that looks anything like genuine leadership. Let's put this in terms that even a democrap may understand......you hire yourself a body guard and pay him to protect your life. This particular body guard aspires to be a secret agent one day. One day you start receiving death threats and getting shoved by people (so much that your life is truly in danger) everywhere you go. When you look for your body guard, you find him in car, reading his "How to be a Secret Agent book". Now you ask him "hey dude, why weren't you protecting me when people were threatening me and pushing me all over the place?" Your body guard looks over at you and says "don't worry, I can read my book and call you every now and then to see how you are doing.......PAY ME!". It would be a different story if ole Hussein wasn't a United States Senator, but sorry bub, HE IS!! His responsibility to the people should come before his desire to be President. How could ANYONE vote for someone that lacks so much leadship skill that he didn't (and still don't) get that?? Since most democraps don't get it, it is hard to convey my point......but alas, if I can save but one!!

You're what you bitter BMWs call Bush. McCain is there to get Republicans on board, not the Democrats...who have already signed off on the deal. And Bush did ObMama a favor. The DEBATE is about as important as GOLF....we've been listing to the LMFs for 18 months now, I already know what he's goin to say anyways.

Obama was afraid to get in the middle of the financial crisis cause he's been in bed with Fannie mae, Obama is a inexperienced gutless liberal that shouldn't be running for president and he won't win.

ObMama

Can you explain what you mean by this pointless little insult?

democraps don't get it, it is hard to convey my point......but alas, if I can save but one!!

You start by insulting me and then continue to insult me and then expect me to listen to your points? Just for fun, you might look up the word "tact".

Neither McCain nor Obama are on the Banking Committee where this is being worked out.

McCain is there to get Republicans on board

And it looks like he doesn't have much sway over those in his own party! Quite the leader!

PC-555480, ho hum, sorry had to wake up after reading your looooong republican slogan. 1st it is McHero (sorry had to choke that one out) who has always wanted to be president. That is why he married Cindy "beer princess" . 2nd McChicken Little "the sky is falling" is not taking a stand.... He is grand standing 3rd A senator can vote on a bill and on Friday speak at a debate that has been set up for the last 2 damn years. I can walk and chew gum too..... can you?????
4th I am NOT a dem... I AM INDEPENDANT!!!!!!!

but then again, you republicans are THICK!

John McCain KNOWS what his duty is

Darn tootin' right he does. His duty is to serve the wealthy interests and screw the American public.

Mark, McCain is the only hope to get anything done for the average American, He has and will be the only one of these freaking idiots to fight for whats right. Obama is an obominiation.He is all about getting his programs like CAC passed into legislation forcing liberalism and racism on our kids in the public schools. Just look what he has been involved with in Chicago. Look up cac and check it out for self, while your at it check out ACORN, these are the programs he and his good buddy Bill Ayers are involved in. Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright are the ones that catapulted Obama's political career, and this is his repayment to them by getting their programs mandated into policy. Look at what comes out of the inner cities, have you listened to the hate, and anti-establishment music. I'm sorry this is not what I want for my children.

Bev - you are right those radical Ayres , Wright they are all radicals. Hey DEMS, TREE HUGGERS, GREEN PEACE FREAKS , FREELOADERS WHY DID YOUR PREZ BILL CLINTON SAY ON EVERY NETWORK TONIGHT THAT JOHN MCCAIN WANTED MORE DEBATES THAN OBAMA AND HE AND HILLARY THOUGHT MCCAIN WAS DEFINITELY NOT AFRAID TO DEBATE!! TELL IT TO THE JUDGE LIBS!!!!!! YOU TOO DRAGON BAT

Elise, You noticed that too, Bill has been saying alot of nice things about McCain the last few days, I wonder whats up?

Bev- it's obvious he wants McCain to win knowing he will not run for another term and then Hillary will be ready for the next election especially since Obama did not pick her for running mate. What a slap in the face.

To DragonWoman "4th I am NOT a dem... I AM INDEPENDENT!!!!!!! "
please spare me this line. I think its evident from all of your postings your not independent at all. Its ok to be a Dem or whatever but don't expect to try and prove your point or make your point by stating that you are an independent, it disingenuous. Its very insulting to everyone whose commented here and read your comments that we aren't smart enough to know a duck when it quacks, walks, and paddles like one. Get serious or at least get honest. You're not running for election are you? You can be honest about where you sit and even if you sit Dem or Liberal or where ever it doesn't mean your wrong or don't have a point. I don't agree with most of your points but its not b/c I think you are a Dem Obama supporter. I even agree with some of what Obama says even though I wont vote for him, mostly because I don't believe what he is saying is always truly how he feels. I am being honest. When you call Republicans "Thick" and call McCain "McChicken Little" then its pretty clear independent isn't where you are right now.

Why do liberals even bother with the pretense that there's a principle involved? You know damn well that if Obama had suggested the debates be postponed to deal with the financial and economic crisis, you would extol him as a great patriot, putting country above himself. And if McCain responded that the debates should go on, you would chastise him for his selfishness. Fess up, liberals, "progressives" and Democrats. It'll make you feel better. You don't value principles here, only politics.

And you'd be accusing Obama of grandstanding, and rightly so, if Obama had pulled the same stunt as McCain.

Fess up, "conservatives." You put party over country.

Incredulous,

Why bother with an If statement. Obama has made his decisions and none were as moronic as putting our foundation, which is democracy on hold to attend a meeting where he wouldn't say more than 1 sentence.

It's you who are not showing value principles in that statement, only politics because you are not looking at the facts that DID happen and judging those actions. No court judge says to a prosecutor trying to put a murderer away, well if you had a gun you would've murdered too.

Talk about what McCain and Obama's actions were, because its by those actions that show the integrity of our next President, not hypothetical rhetoric. And I'm not trying to be rude, but stating a valid point.

I see many people point to what Obama has done, each time McCain does something idiotic.

RDS,

Lets take a minute and think.

The Dems are the majority - they can pass this bill anytime they like. Nothing the Reps can do to stop them.

If it is really McCain against the Dems and Bush there is no problem. They just line it up and pass the bill.

What are they waiting for?

Just like their fearful leader Obama they do not want to take responsibility for this bill. They need the Reps on board so later they can share the blame.

He threw honor away with integrity.

Why is he doing his job now? What has he been doing for the past 25 years? We're in this mess because he was for deregulation.

Louie Lou- get a clue! Do we need to go over Gov. 101?? Do you need basic lesson in US Government?? I'd be really interested to know how you come to the conclusion that John McCain is responsible for this all by himself?? Let me guess- when nobody was looking, Sen. McCain swapped bills; he traded out a good bill and since nobody saw the swap, BINGO, we have deregulation!! WOW, that's pretty impressive!!

Louie, McCain called this mess to the attention of the democratic congress two years ago, but instead of them doing anything about it they just kept spending our money, because the dems seem to think the money comes from a bottomless well...Guess what they were wrong again. And the Energy crisis too the dems don't want to co-operate on anything and here we go again, they'd rather send the money to the terrorist nations then let us move forward to energy independance

Two years ago Congress was Republican. Does your partisanship work both now?

Charles Babington, like 95 percent of the press corps, is a flaming left wing wacko nutjob.

I guess when you run low on facts, you can always use the "liberal media" fall back play.
"News" that you agree with is 'fair and balanced'. "News" you disagree with is delivered by "a flaming left wing wacko nutjob". How convenient.

Wrong, Dems have had the congress for the past two years with her hinyass Pelosi as speaker.

Pelosi's Sideshow started in January 2007; two years ago would be September 2006, before they were even elected.

Um Bev, what happened to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is the byproduct of this crisis. It has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Um KC, Obama's in bed with fannie and freddie, does Jim Johnson ring a bell or maybe Franklin Raines

SEMPER THIS IS ABOVE THEIR PAYCODE "as per osamabama" the dems don't have a clue as to what you say they don't have the knowledge, class or education you do . So don't even begin to understand these things.

Bev tell us all how Fannie and Freddie are making banks fail. In addition McCain's campaign advisor got 2 million from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. So who exactly is in bed with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac again??

It's funny how Dems get blamed for not being able to fix 8 years of a downfall in 2 years. I see fairness is not warranted here.

How can anyone with intelligence not consider the 8 years of horror? Also, its harder to turn a speeding bus around than to send it on a straight path to destruction.

Why don't republicans take ownership? Why don't they give Dems at least 8 years to start improvement, but only 2?

I'm not siding either way, but TRUTH is TRUTH. And that's what I stand behind.

Bottom line to all you d*** conservatives writing in this blog, all the osama and muslim and hussein talk is code word for N***er. I could care less what your points of view are. Those are the only words that I need to hear come out your mouth and my ears automatically shut off. You are totally close-minded and anything you say goes on deaf-ears. Get ready to cry a river when you wake up on Nov.4th and find out that AMERICA is going forward with progression while you guys are left behind. AMERICA is dying and the middle class is already dead. But, why would you care! Country FIRST, right? Laughable. We are all at fought for this mess we are currently end. All of US! Nobody can do nothing to you, unless you let them. Let's move forward. If were not careful, we won't be called AMERICA, more like CHINA II!

The consensus from all experts is that we are where we are because of too much deregulation and not enough oversight. Those are the facts. Pesky little things you'd like to ignore and the Republicans and the Great Deregulator would like to sweep under the carpet: "This is no time for pointing fingers." Funny how every time something screws up because of their actions all we hear is "This is no time for pointing fingers." This, from the party who claims that the problem with Liberals is that they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. What a bunch of hooey! This administration, this party, and this candidate are incapable of manning-up and admitting a mistake.

NickA,

Well, we could start with the Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. That would be.....Barney Frank??

We could check his pointing finger, but it smells like sh....never mind.

"This administration, this party, and this candidate are incapable of manning-up and admitting a mistake. "

Yea, keep drinkin that kool-aid. JUST FYI...Bush did take responsibility for Katrina...even though we all know it was the mayor and the gov'nor (wink, wink).

It will be interesting to see what the dems try to tack onto the bailout.

Barney has to be running scared, he knows he is at risk of being hung out to dry. He has been on the wrong side of this issue for so long he may be deemed beyond salvage by the dems.

Seeing Barneys hide on the wall will not lessen the damage he has done but it may serve as a warning for others. A much needed warning in that polluted town.

Gabriel, I agree, Barney is a Joke, a bad joke.

Bush did take responsibility for Katrina...even though we all know it was the mayor and the gov'nor (wink, wink).

Did he take responsibility for Ike too, or was that the governor?

Barney is a joke didn't he get caught with a male senate page several years ago what a pervert what a leader WOW

Actually, Barney Frank is openly gay.

Unlike your occasional Republican toe-tapper in the men's room.

Who franked Barney?

Visions of Mr. Hankey - "hidy ho there!"

LOL to both of you NickA & TBone!

I think McCains a few cards short of a full deck!

Someone should tell him to sit down and be quiet, the sane people are working and can't be disturbed right now.

libra7288

LOL!!! :)

Anyone ever watch "Absolutely Fabulous" ?

I used to love how Eddie would be calling from the street up to her office on the cell phone and say "I'm on my way! Don't panic! I'm coming! Almost there!" and of course, Eddie was, at all times, completely and utterly useless.

Kim-298921:

??????????????Wa????????????????

LOL, Kim - I used to watch AbFab, and loved it!

I guess I had to be there
Peace out.

Dana Carvey's skit about almost vomiting: "Crisis averted."

I'm there man :)

McCain is scared to debate Obama. That's why he donned his "Super McCain" cape and flew to Washington D.C.! That's where he was needed! We were all doomed if Super McCain didn't show up! There would have been mad panic in the streets, with everyone looking for Super McCain up in the sky, calling him . . . willing him . . . desparately needing him to come to our rescue! If only Super McCain would show up and fix the bail-out mess! Only HE can do it!!!! He's our Hero!

Excuse me, I just vomitted a bit in my mouth! Buuuuurrrrrrrp! Ahhhh, much better. This man gives me indigestion!

LMAO

libra7288...............Too Funny!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe he can wear those tight red leotards. The ones that make me all hot and bothered.

DragonWoman,

How about a green leotard? It would go nicely with his boring green backdrop! Now, on a serious note . . .

McCain is afraid to debate Obama because even though the debate is technically about foreign policy, (in which he believe,s in his own mind, that he's the stronger candidate) the economic situation will come into play considering this issue has global consequences. McCain doesn't know diddley about the economy.

Also, can he just STOP with his whole "I was a POW" thing? For goodness sake, that was 40 friggin' years ago!!!!! Ok, he's a veteran! I get it! Thank you, for your service, John McCain! I mean that with all sincerity. But, he isn't any more special than thousands of other POW's or men and women who have bravely served our country.

So, anyone care to explain why he won't discuss issue of the missing POW's or why he and Senator Kerry walked out of Senate hearings on the issue? Can he talk about the "rumors" that he made secret deals with his captors? Curious.

McCain is afraid to debate Obama because even though the debate is technically about foreign policy,

I doubt that. Clearly the intent of McCain, is to focus on the economy and reschedule the debate to next Thursday, October the 2nd. He knows that he has no campaign appearances scheduled on that particular evening and neither does Obama. Therefore it would be very easy for Obama and McCain to reschedule to that evening. Of course it might offend Biden and Palin, as they have a V.P. debate taking place that night and it would be postponed and most likely cancelled.

Ooh, that's quality tinfoil hattery there, gator. I'd rather you not give the McCampaign ideas....

Steve, I'm sure the M/P campaign has been working overtime to figure out how to get Palin out of the debates all together. With each passing day it becomes more and more obvious, even to the casual viewer, that this woman is a disaster on this level of politics.

She was a big fish back in Alaska, hob nobbing with the likes of Ted Stevens, (I think jury selection started on Steven's case today), and getting multi million dollar earmarks for her pet projects. Oh, and appointing all her high school friends to various agencies that makes for a cozy little family.

And as mayor, she was very busy, loyalty oaths needed to be signed, books needed to be banned, a sports arena money pit had to be built.

Most seasoned politicians will PUSH their way into the studios to get a little air time. Staff is constantly setting up interviews, meetings, & talk shows, so their candidate can get their message out on the cheap. (Cheaper and more effective to spend an hour on "Meet the Press" than to buy air time!)

libra7288:
He loves to brag on his years as a veteran, but does NOTHING for the vets who have come home.

I will say it again:

He said to the last bill he vetoed for vets that it was "too generous".

Does anyone out there know how many vets are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan with serious head wounds, depression, amputations, etc.

Most seasoned politicians will PUSH their way into the studios to get a little air time. Staff is constantly setting up interviews, meetings, & talk shows, so their candidate can get their message out on the cheap. (Cheaper and more effective to spend an hour on "Meet the Press" than to buy air time!)

Yep. McCain even had the perfect chance to push her into the limelight by "suspending" (xD) his campaign, but didn't even give her a shot. Are they sexists protecting her, or is she just that bad? Anyone's guess at this point.

Ken here is a good one in case you have not heard the latest:

I got this from First Read on MSNBC

From NBC's Jim Popkin
When federal judges in San Francisco ruled in 2002 that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was unconstitutional because it included the phrase "under God," Sarah Palin was not amused. Palin, who at the time was Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, quickly drafted a terse letter to the editor of a San Francisco newspaper.

"Dear Editor," Palin wrote in 2002. "San Francisco judges forbidding our Pledge of Allegiance? They will take the phrase 'under God' away from me when my cold, dead lips can no longer utter those words," Palin wrote.

"God Bless America," she concluded.

Are they sexists protecting her, or is she just that bad?

She's just that bad!

Steve: "Ooh, that's quality tinfoil hattery there, gator. I'd rather you not give the McCampaign ideas...."

It is not my idea, but one put forth by the media last night and today. Besides, McCain has his ads going back on the air, come Saturday, so go figure. I guess the crisis will be solved and it was just a 2 day suspension.

Besides, McCain has his ads going back on the air, come Saturday, so go figure.

Oh, didn't you know? Congresspeople operate like Calvin; no work on weekends. :p

Ahhhh, much better. This man gives me indigestion!

Crisis averted, as Dana Carvey used to say.

There are a couple of large institutions about to fail and there is a large car dealer that closed its doors yesterday, probably hard to get loans...it's starting to happen.

They were too busy hiding behind Paris Hilton, Lipstick on a pig, and oh yeah, "The economy is strong" Now the sky is falling on Mc Chicken little

JP Morgan Chase is buying WaMu's deposits. Here we go.

Doh!!

I better cancel that credit card.

LOL

Yeah, I just bought a 12-month CD from WaMu since it was going for 5% APY. I wonder how long it'll take JP to want to change the terms. If I don't like the new terms, I can get my money back without penalty, according to the FDIC. We'll see if that bears any resemblance to reality.

We'll see if that bears any resemblance to reality.

Mind if I jack that phrase, Comrade Kris? I like it. :)

Go for it, it's very useful. :D

LOL :)

Elise,

It's called freedom of expression. Everyone burps and farts! John McCain just happens to make my gas worse!

On a serious note, the comment on my digestion was simply a way of expressing my distaste for McCain's theatrics and drama. He seriously needs to see a physician that specializes in geriatric medicine and perhaps a neurologist. I believe he's may have some cognitive issues and diminished capacity. The statements he's made just in this last week alone, should be cause for alarm for America!

Elise, - "It's called freedom of expression."

Actually it's called immaturity, lack of education, and no class. Something Dems and Libs have the market cornered on..

Hyperactive - It's a shame that you have no sense of humor!

Typical Republican response. When you can't argue a point intellectually, insult the other person! Call them names. Lie, cheat, steal, exaggerate, blah, blah, blah.

Lie, cheat, steal . . . sounds like business as usual for republicans!

C'mon. Somebody out there has to have a couple logical arguments for ramming this package through so fast. Why cant we actually take a bit of time to make sure this is the best possible course of action?

This whole scenario is giving me deja-vu back to when the 'patriot' act was fast tracked as well as the the run up to the Iraq war due to eminent danger from WMDs. In hindsight dosen't anybody wish we might have examined the fine details of both of those bit more?

Doesn't anybody find it a bit ironic that that this current administration started with a tax cut for the wealthiest companies & Americans and now here at the end the same folks are getting the biggest bail out in the history of modern finance? Is this package a final parting gift from President Bush?

I didn't think of it, but some summed this up as 'Privatizing profits while socializing risk.'

I think there's a lot of deja vu going around these last few days VM.. Two things:

First, here we are again. The president warning the American people of dire consequences unless immediate action is taken, even if that action is painful, it MUST be done. Don't spend time debating it, it's too dire to waste time seeking alternatives, "I have said it, now it must be done!"

Second, he said it. He has warned us and encouraged us to be afraid SO MANY times. Yes the Patriot Act may not be perfect but it MUST be passed or we could be attacked again tomorrow! And no one will forget the "smoking gun, in the form of a mushroom cloud". We must attack Iraq TODAY, before the evil Saddam launches a nuclear attack on the United States. Don't think about it, don't take time to debate it, just give me the authority! Credible?

6 weeks ago we were told by this same man that the "fundamentals of the economy are strong". Last week were were told that we are on the brink of a Great Depression not seen since the '30's! Did he finally open the business section of his local newspaper? And he wants a $700 billion dollar blank check. No debate, don't think about it. A 3 page proposal for a $700 billion dollar loan!? I've filled out job applications longer than 3 pages!!!

And just to make sure it's done in the good old fashioned Bush/Cheny style, we get Section 8: Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

You know what Mr. President...Thanks for the heads up but we're going to give it a few months and see how things play out. If, after careful study and expert analysis, we see a need for an infusion of cash, we'll get back to you.

And oh by the way, you're the one applying for the loan. And since it's our money that you want to borrow, we'll set the terms, not you.

C'mon. Somebody out there has to have a couple logical arguments for ramming this package through so fast.

You are asking for logical arguments which would be extremely difficult. It's kinda like that old story about the emperor's clothes. Our economy is based on an illusion. Our current economic system. The video is about 48 minutes long, but the gist can be grasped after about 10. This is the system that has been in place for about 100 years, in the U.S. So if our economy is an illusion, sometimes further illusions are required to support the original illusion. Somehow that seems logical.

Elise, what are you even talking about? Tell me when you get back tomorrow. You know, when your suspension expires. Online prudishness is a weird concept.

Reported as having no value.

On Topic: McJerk's grandstanding will cost him this election. What a self-important loser. SuperMac swoops in to save America! God help us all.

TBone.... You reported the moderator's statement as no value. Good luck with that.

As for the your McJerk comment, I think that was of no value. Let's allow the moderator to decide.

You reported the moderator's statement as no value.

My sarcasmeter buzzed a little at that, didn't yours?

I'll do it every time too. I hate those moderator comments. They are off topic and violate the very spirit of the vine.

OnTopic: Now that this was defeated, what good did McFeign decency have by swooping in to save the day?

I think you mean the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It was a deregulation that repealed a part of Glass-Steagel such that commercial banks, investment banks and insurance companies could merge.

And surprise, surprise. That was on the Clinton watch

Kris-471083 brought up Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act Hyperactive stated: And surprise, surprise. That was on the Clinton watch Bill passed in the 106th Congress. Newt Gingrich was the speaker of the house and Trent Lott the leader of the Senate.

BTW, that's "Gramm-Leach-Bliley", Gramm as in Phil "nation of whiners" Gramm, John McCain's financial adviser.

I think the Republican shadow government realized that Obama will win and so they had to accelerate their plan to rob our retirement accounts. Having stolen all of the money from the S&L's, gouged the public with the Enron crisis, siphoned off a trillion dollars to a discretionary war, saddled the treasury with several trillion in deficit spending, they felt that they could wring another $700 Billion from the taxpayers if they acted fast.

I don't think you are insane. I think we have madmen running our government, people utterly conusmed with greed.

Just imagine Mark, if we'd bought into the Social Security Privitization plan!!

@dripdrop
Just to go along with your "tin-foil" paranoia, my tin-foil hat gives me two theories. The first, (and strongest), is that the administration knew this was going to happen. And up until just last month, Bush is saying the fundamentals of the economy are sound, blah, blah. I believe he was hoping they could keep the house of cards propped up until AT LEAST after the election, or better yet, up into a couple of months into the Obama presidency. If Obama had to ask for $700 billion, he would have been crucified by Republicans as the "tax and spend" poster boy!

They could say, "See, everything was fine but the bubble burst under Obama"!

My second theory is that this is step one of the October Surprise. Forcing Congress to save the economy and face the wrath of voters for "bailing out the rich", or doing nothing and having the whole economy tank. I'm still not convinced that it's as bad as Bush makes it sound. Why ALL OF A SUDDEN?? And why does it have to be passed "yesterday!"? Are Bush's cronies putting the squeeze on him to get them their money? What's the hurry? It's $700 BILLION dollars for gawds sake! and Bush is treating it like a drive-thru loan service!??

I'll wear my hat this weekend as see what the voices tell me ;)

HoozUrDaddy

I can't figure out whether you are slaming Obama or McCain, when you mention Augusta National, I assume you are talking about the Masters Golf Tournament, then talk about the debates being that important. Considering the Masters is one of four majors, and is telecast live to numerous countries, it is considered in the same way the super bowl is, and is this country it is important.

So do you think McCain should miss the debates or not.

The article is pointing out that a lot of people including democrats and republicans think McCain is being more of a hindrance than a help. I happen to agree with that.

Roger,

It may be just me, but I have no problem determining priorities when faced with a round of golf *or* the Cuban Missle Crisis. And so we have this test of our potential President: Go Debate *or* Go keep the country out of a depression?

Hindrance? Are you kidding me? The deal is if Obama & McCain show they can work in a bi-partisan fashion, then the pressure will be on Boehner, Reid, & Pelosi to show why they can't do the same. So that is REALLY what the Democrats are complaining about, if you can read between the lines. And the line from Frank is absolutely hillarious considering he is the chairman of the HFSC, talk about hypocrisy. But Obama seems to put more priority on debates, even though, ironically, he's turned down all those town hall meetings w/McCain. And we've been listening to these guys for 18 months? Do we honestly expect we will learn something new? BS.

HoozUrDaddy

From following this debacle all day, it was announced by both dems and repubilcans at 1 pm today that they had an agreement, then McCain showed up and then they didn't. The bottom line is neither McCain nor Obama are president, they are nominees.

To get a bill passed there must be give and take on both sides, which their was, until presidential politics was thrown into the mix. Who did McCain have in the meeting with him, but one of his campaign advisors, that does not look like politics is out of it.

McCain and Obama, even if they want to act like it is not happening, the bottom line is they are running for president, there respective parties want them to get elected. By them showing up in Washington whether they intended to or not they brought partisan politics into the mix.

Obama I think realized this and was going to stay out of the fray, McCain IMO did not think through his decision and while I believe his intentions were good, has brought politics into this mess.

The presidential election is not just about McCain and Obama, it involves everyone in both parties. That is way they are both hinderances to the process, they need to get out of town and let congress do its job without presidential politcs interfering anymore than it has to. If they both agree to accept the plan that is put forward by congress, that shows bipartisan support.

McCain has indicated he is not an expert on the economy, Obama isn't either, so the only thing they bring to the table is presidential politics. Leadership does not always mean being in the room, sometimes it means getting out of the way.

Obama Tried to stay out of the way . McChicken wanted to appear Presidential and ended up looking like a damn fool.On with the debates, it's time the maverick proved him self to the rest of America ,not the republican base which thinks the dummy walks on water.I felt sorry for Palin in her interview .It was pitiful,Republicans are pimping the poor woman.

KEEP AMERICA SAFE

OBAMA & BIDEN

Brenda, KEEP AMERICA SAFE? Obama wants to dis arm America to protect America in other words we will all be like sitting ducks with the missiles pointed right at our heads.
that sounds SAFE. Plus the fact he wants civil militias, does Stalin or Mussolini ring a bell?

THANK YOU HOOZ DADDY AND BEVERLY - ACTUALLY SANE AND EDUCATED PEOPLE ARE ON HERE THANK GOD!!! Hooz - did you see Bill Clinton(the saints of the liberals) was on every network even worthless MSNBC saying he and Hillary know McCain actually wanted more debates than OSAMABAMA and knows, Mind you, Bill Clinton saying all of this that McCain and him do not agree on many things but that he really was thinking of the country and not the debates and is not scared SO LIBS GO SEE IT for yourself- on every station CNBC CNN FOX and even Keith "nasty " Olbermanns station. BEV- isn't it amazing how these fools can not believe OSAMA BAMA is dangerous??? " my muslim faith" or mistake let me correct myself before eeryone knows who I really am my"christian faith" YEA SURE YOU ARE

hooZ -- HILLARIOUS AND TRUE!

So... Your argument basically boils down to Bill Clinton and Obama's name. Intelligent. I'm glad to see we're discussing the issues.

What, the ex-chariman of Goldman isn't convincing enough to hand a trillion dollars over?
It is suspicious when you see Buffet swooping in to soak up shares of investment banks...
Everyone who bought Intel, Oracle, and IBM in 2002 is sitting pretty now.

SEM, Buffet will stuff his wallet and move on, you'd think he try to offer some help to the federal government to get us out of this mess, but I guess he's in it for the payoff. Lucky him

Edward, its so obvious that the media is trying to trip her up and she is doing great, Then look at the interviews with Obama how they play soft ball. The thing is Obama can't answer the hard questions so they treat him with kid gloves. He's a gutless wimp.

I wonder if Joe Biden knows Obama's stance on gun control or just who approved of that ad...

Then again to be fair, I wonder if Obama knows his stance on gun control.

Gabriel, This is a lead in, for Biden to step down, because he hasn't given Obama any lead, so they'll play switcheroo and Obama will try to get hillary in the mix but if she has half a brain which I think she does, she'll decline and stick it to Obama, Bill has been saying some pretty supportive things about McCain the last few days, something is up.

Couric tried a talking head's"Gotcha" question and it didn't work. I loved Sarahs response, "I'll try to find you some and bring them to you". In other words what other vice presidential candidate in the past could answer that?

Ba ha ha, that would be all well and good if she hadn't said "I can give you examples," then dodged the question before Couric had to push it into her face to get a straight answer.

I can answer Couric's question about when JM has been aaverick and I am not on a ticket for VP (and I generally despise John McCain). Senator McCain was a maverick when he publicly opposed the GOP line and Bush policy favoring torture. For that I have some admiration for the man. Now if Palin has so little knowledge of national politics and the public record of her running mate I must worry that she is too out of touch to make a good candidate. Couric's question revealed that fact and I thank her. Face it guys, that was a slow pitch softball question.

Ed- good fact but you know even though Katie makes millions she is a flaming democrat

Senator McCain was a maverick when he publicly opposed the GOP line and Bush policy favoring torture.

Was that before or after he voted against the bill that banned waterboarding, which the Bush crowd also opposed?

You're right Steve. My bad. McCain is a maverick because he switches directions every few seconds.

Your use of "golden parachute" is ignorant. You don't have a clue what the term means.

Second, there was no "bipartisan agreement", because if there was, we'd be reading about it right now! Why do you think McCain went to DC for in the first place?

Sorry denise, It just shows he is a true leader, put the country above his personal gains...that says alot about a man...GO JOHN

Why did he very publicly announce suspending his campaign then, Beverly? You seem to support the move, so maybe you'll be the first to give me an answer to the question.

What benefit is there to America, reaching a solution faster, or McCain being able to help the process in Washington, what benefit is there from McCain pulling his ads and stopping his campaign altogether, as opposed to letting the ads carry on and having Palin step in for him?

At 1 Pm today before the White House Meeting their was an agreement between the Democrats and Republicans. See 15.3

BeverlyH:

He did not put the country first.
He never really did.
It is all a show.

Beverly H

whats wrong with you

Steve, He publicly announced the suspension until an agreement was agreed on because regardless of the campaign the need to get some kind of resolution is a tad bit more important than campaigning.
Roger, the agreement had not been met by all republicans, the house republicans were not satisfied with the bill.
Dragon, He did put his country first as he also put it first during Gustaf
Brenda???

With the campaign suspending it's suspension, as evidenced by the re-start of political ads on Saturday morning, McCain must be really sure of getting an agreement on Friday. Why is that? The only other question that remains, is will he be able to get the debate postponed 6 days and bumping the V.P. debate off the schedule?

Roger - "At 1:00pm today they had an agreement." The only agreement they had was in principal. That means all they agreed on was that something needs to done.

====
Two of the main sticking points for the plan in principal: Pelosi and Reid wanted the bailout repayments received by the gov to be "re-distributed" to the welfare class and not back to the taxpayer who's money it is. The other main sticking point was the Dems were trying to inject bankruptcy protection loopholes that only benefited two states and basically screwed the other 48.

87% of the nation's population is opposed to this bailout, especially as written. Sounds like to me McCain does have the country first, campaign second. And right now, that is where his AND Obama's priorities should.

As far as the debates? Predisclosed questions with ample time to script answers. Naaawww, I want to see Obama in town hall settings with McCain. Oh that's right I forgot, Obama wouldn't have time script his answers and teleprompters aren't allowed.
If McCain's interference is what stopped the Dem BS then I say let him interfere all he wants.

Beverly, thanks for at least attempting to answer; you're the first. But you dodged the question. The campaign is perfectly capable of moving on without John McCain for a short time. He pulled ads, and he didn't give his second-in-command Palin the job of campaigning for a few days. What is the benefit of that?

funny? we can't have humor in a time of crisis Scott! McCant said so his own tyrannical self.

we can't have humor in a time of crisis

Right. That is why you can't tell jokes in airports anymore.

I always liked those t-shirts that said "I'm with the bomb squad. If you see me running, try to keep up." LOL

"Osama bama"? As in using his name to link to racial/religious/jingoistic sentiment of hatred, and fear?

You might want to brush up on the User Agreement, especially this bit:

You agree not to:

* upload, post or otherwise transmit any User Content that: ... is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, known to be false and presented as truth, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

We gotta get over these stupid newsvine censorship rules. Their simply too much "inference" possible in the human language. One man's ideology is another man's hatred. If we sanitize our opinions we are NOT getting "The Wisdom of the Crowds". Moreover we will lose a valuable type of poster in favor of academic grandstanders.

OnTopic: McCant seems to suffer from some kind of God complex. Something that disturbed me last night (during the debate) was his focus on POWs. I know he can relate but that represents like .000000somelamesassedlysmallnumber of the populace.

Thank God.

LOL,

This will probably be used in a political ad and then political fodder for the next week.

The Arizona senator is not a member of the Senate Banking Committee, has never been influential in setting congressional financial policy, and was not involved in the negotiated agreement in principle.

Said Sen. Reid: "Anyone who tried to understand what John McCain said (at the White House) couldn't."

source

Steve: Nice reference. You have provided a direct quote from an article by By David Lightman and Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers tht is quite revealing.

Quite revealing of what, another place I've read about this? Do you refute what I've quoted, or are you resorting to ad hominems because you don't know what else to do?

Steve: I am sincere! Not everybody flames on these sites. I like to say nice things. I was just adding the citation like a good academic that I am.

Oops, my bad. Sorry, I was in rather a confrontational mood earlier and took that is quite revealing. the wrong way.

Yankee: Much as I hate to admit it from the bottom of my Rebel heart, you speak a Colonel (Sanders) of truth. It is indeed the PEOPLE's responsibility. I urge all of the PEOPLE to vote this November. Furhermore, PEOPLE should not vote for MOOSE and SQUIRRELS.

Goddam right. It irks me to no end when I hear people say 'I'm not getting involved with those politics this year', and then 10 minutes later they'll want a handout when they're up to their hair follicles in debt. I always tell them 'Get involved, you were born with a perfectly good stake in this process, USE it. It will never get better until you do.'

Nah I don't think you'll get flamed. You're alright in my book.

Thank you, Mark Liberal and waynef415 !

For a minute, I thought I was lying to myself about who is to blame but I really thought about Old-School problem solving, the way it used to be when we believed in the American dream.

An old saying " If your not part of the Solution, then your part of the Problem" is how I see this. It's really hard to have faith in something that you once believed in, that once , you had fought for with your life. I gave Uncle Sam a good many years in the Green Machine and every day I spent wearing the uniform, I fought and Defended the rights of American citizens and not once did I vote because we SOLDIERS, had no rights! Now, am disabled and have a pace-maker and it shames me that am being paid to stay alive! For what ? To see my Country go down in flames because of these crooks in office get FAT and eat $500 meals while troops all over the world is paying the cost with BLOOD!

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring my emotions into this, I HATE POLITICIAN'S and CROOKS !

Yankee: Thank you for your service to our country. I believe you are quite sincere in your love of America. I salute you, although having never served in the military (I am a pacifist Quaker) I'm not really entitled to salute. I was a Boy Scout and can give the three-finger salute.

Your passion and patriotism (true patriotism for our great Constitution) are inspiring. Keep posting.

Bless you Yankee.

My grandpa was a cook in the Navy and sees ALL politicians as CROOKS. He still finds ways to smile at the world.

I hope you find peace of heart in knowing that there are people out here who do care about you and your service. Just don't expect to see it in our so called leaders.

I agree with y'all, but out side of complaining what do we do. I sure as hell did not vote for Bush (as well as a great deal of Americans) still he be president.

I still remember the voting lines in OHIO in 2004. No one talks about that one. It never takes me more than 10 minutes to vote. They stood in lines for hours. It touched my patriotic soul and angered me at the same time. The truth is we are no longer governed by the people for the people but by BIG CORPORATIONS. I hate crooks too.

Commonyankee56...." I HATE POLITICIAN'S and CROOKS ! "

I feel the need ask a clarifying question. Not all crooks are politicians, but all politicians are crooks. Therefore, would saying you hate politicians AND crooks, be kinda redundant??

(My attempt at late night humor.)

gatorhater, I sort of used CROOKS as a broad term meaning all of the low life's below Politicians cause they are so many of them, like the Sec. Of Treasury and other so-called people in office.

I want to stress that am not here to debate WHO is better then WHO, am just here trying to get people to see that it is WE, The people who are at fault for letting this happen to our nation.

Again, Am at fault like the rest but I have reasons for not casting my vote. I was a WARRIOR, Yes, I was once a citizen like yous but I chose to Defend my country and gave up my rights to vote while wearing the uniform, Yes, I felt the harsh truth that POLITICIANS don't really give a RAT'S-A$$ for it's troops under fire, and YES, Am still an American who loves this Great Nation but I will not vote for any person who doesn't BELIEVE in " THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES " !

I was a WARRIOR, Yes, I was once a citizen like yous but I chose to Defend my country

You are not the only person to have served in the military. You are not the only person to choose to defend this country. Back off.

gatorhater, What do you mean by " Back off " ?

Also sounds like I hit a nerve within you, gatorhater ?

Are you trying to say that you were in the military and are not proud of giving up your rights as a CITIZEN, so that you can defend our country? It sounds like you HATE me for what I chose to do as an American, for what I felt like I had to do !

It is I that chose the military, not the other way around! Regardless of how you may feel towards me and my right to voice my opinion, I would not have changed the outcome of my life. I simply understood the PROBLEM with our country is in fact, WE, The People !

Are you trying to say that you were in the military and are not proud of giving up your rights as a CITIZEN, so that you can defend our country? It sounds like you HATE me for what I chose to do as an American, for what I felt like I had to do !

Let's get something straight. I served. I do not flaunt it in every post and use it as justification for my opinions. Nor do I expect everyone to bow down and worship me, due to that service. Each of us have an equal right to an opinion. It says so in the constitution. That thing we each swore to defend.

gatoryhater, I only questioned your remark about " Back off" ! I needed to know what you felt about my post that got you upset.

FYI, I am not using my time in the service as a CRUTCH ! I only brought that in here to stress that PEOPLE who have,had and did time in the service, KNEW what it means to be a PATRIOT and how it feels to have the same NATION, that we all DEFENDED, to go up in flames !

As I see it, gatorhater, WE, meaning YOU and I can shake and acknowledge that WE are both PATRIOTS and on the same page,,,,, or WE can test each others resolve?

In either case, Being as we are both TRUE PATRIOTS, I would fight along your side !

And, notice that I did not say....... IN FRONT nor THE REAR !