Republican Sarah Palin criticized a version of a Barack Obama health care plan that doesn't exist and Democrat Joe Biden clung to a misleading charge about Republicans and big oil when the two clashed in the vice presidential debate Thursday.
Some examples of facts cast adrift in the debate:
PALIN: Said of Democratic presidential candidate Obama: "94 times he voted to increase taxes or not support a tax reduction."
THE FACTS: The dubious count includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year.
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BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."
THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now. The law was widely backed by Republicans as well as by Democratic President Clinton, who argues it has stopped the crisis today from being worse.
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PALIN: Criticized Obama's "plan to mandate health care coverage and have universal government run program" for health care, and added: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."
THE FACTS: Wrong on several counts. Obama's plan does not provide for universal coverage, only mandates insurance for children and doesn't turn the system over to the government. Most people would still get private insurance through their work. Obama proposes that the government subsidize the cost of health coverage for millions who have trouble affording it and he'd set up an exchange to negotiate prices and benefits with private insurers — with one option being a government-run plan.
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BIDEN: Warned that Republican presidential candidate John McCain's $5,000 tax credit to help families buy health coverage "will go straight to the insurance company."
THE FACTS: That's not surprising — the money is meant to pay for health insurance. The Obama campaign tried to capitalize on the candidates' health care exchange by issuing an ad Friday contending that the Republicans can't explain "the McCain health tax."
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PALIN: "Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell."
THE FACTS: Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska led an effort in 2005 to tighten regulation on the mortgage underwriters — McCain joined as a co-sponsor a year later. The legislation was never taken up by the full Senate, then under Republican control.
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BIDEN: Said McCain supports tax breaks for oil companies, and "wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut."
THE FACTS: Biden is repeating a favorite saw of the Obama campaign, and it's misleading. McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.
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PALIN: Said the United States has reduced its troop level in Iraq to a number below where it was when the troop increase began in early 2007.
THE FACTS: Not correct. The Pentagon says there are currently 152,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about 17,000 more than there were before the 2007 military buildup began.
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BIDEN: "As a matter of fact, John recently wrote an article in a major magazine saying that he wants to do for the health care industry — deregulate it and let the free market move — like he did for the banking industry."
THE FACTS: Biden and Obama have been perpetuating this distortion of what McCain wrote in an article for the American Academy of Actuaries. McCain, laying out his health plan, only referred to deregulation when saying people should be allowed to buy health insurance across state lines. In that context, he wrote: "Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."
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PALIN: Said Alaska is "building a nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline, which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."
THE FACTS: Not quite. Construction is at least six years away. So far the state has only awarded a license to Trans Canada Corp., that comes with $500 million in seed money in exchange for commitments toward a lengthy and costly process to getting a federal certificate. At an August news conference after the state Legislature approved the license, Palin said, "It's not a done deal."
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PALIN: "Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year."
BIDEN: "The charge is absolutely not true. Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes."
THE FACTS: The vote was on a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed that President Bush's tax cuts would expire, as scheduled, in 2011. If that actually happened, it could mean higher taxes for people making as little as about $42,000. But Obama is proposing tax increases only on the wealthy, and would cut taxes for most others.
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PALIN: Said a McCain-Palin administration "will support Israel," including "building our embassy ... in Jerusalem."
THE FACTS: Moving the U.S. Embassy from its present location in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is a perennial promise of presidential candidates courting the Jewish-American vote. In fact, moving the embassy is actually required by U.S. law. But successive administrations of both parties, including George W. Bush's, have made the same pledge only to find that the realities of Middle East peacemaking have forced them to invoke a waiver to delay it. Jerusalem is claimed as a capital by both Israel and the Palestinians and Israel's occupation of east Jerusalem is not internationally recognized. The city's status is one of the key issues of disagreement in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Steve Quinn, Jim Kuhnhenn, Lolita Baldor and Matthew Lee contributed to this report.
She didn't answer the questions. When Gwen asked a question Palin just said she wanted to talk about something else and then went into a McCain campaign speech. Why didn't she answer any question?
She didn't answer because all she's got is talking points. She is a Female GW.
I agree. Too often she just changed the question.
Right, she'd be asked a question about foreign policy and she'd just say "No, I want to talk about taxes" and then turn on the tape recorder in her mouth into which the McCain people had recited the company line. She was like a robot.
Palin did not respond to the questions. Joe Biden responded with specific information, on point, and truthful. Palin sounded rehearsed, parrot-like. Immediately after the debate, I made an additional contribution to the Obama-Biden ticket. Even though I cannot afford a large contribution, I gave what I could, given my exorbitant medical expenses this past year. We need Barack Obama and Joe Biden to lead our country. Incidentally, Palin cannot pronounce "nuclear," just like George Bush! And she wants even more power than Cheney? God help the USA if the McCain/Palin ticket wins. Debate tonight sounded like a continued resitation of proven lies on the part of the McCain campaign. Go Joe Biden! You rock!
An outsiders views/questions:
I agree whole heartedly! Sarah Palin is a pretty mouthpiece and nothing more! She did well when her coached answers coincided with the information she was drilled on, but when it diverged from her comfort zone her answers were vague and she quickly veered back to safer ground. Just as with the phrase Achilles Heel, I think it doubtful that Sarah Palin knows the meaning of the word Maverick! As for the reason Senator Biden was asked questions first, that is because of a coin toss that occured before the debate.
I agree Palin did not answer questions. Joe Biden did extremely well, no "foot in mouth" comments, unlike Palin with her "OCain" slip. Palin tried to separate herself from George Bush, yet she could not say one thing that she would have done differently from Bush. Either she is not aware of Bush's actions, or she agreed with everything he has done! I cannot believe people can believe Palin was able to respond based on her own knowledge and not merely because she has been well trained by McCain's people.
Palin tried to separate herself from George Bush, yet she could not say one thing that she would have done differently from Bush. Either she is not aware of Bush's actions, or she agreed with everything he has done!
Or maybe GW Bush isn't a topic and talking about his policies accomplished nothing in a debate between VPs
I agree Palin did not answer questions. Joe Biden did extremely well
Really? Palin side stepped a couple of questions, but gave answers later on. Biden and Palin outright did not answer:
how, as vice president, would you work to shrink this gap of polarization which has sprung up in Washington, which you both have spoken about here tonight?
and Ifill caught that and didn't let it go unchecked:
Governor, Senator, neither of you really answered that last question about what you would do as vice president. I'm going to come back to that throughout the evening to try to see if we can look forward, as well.
I cannot believe people can believe Palin was able to respond based on her own knowledge and not merely because she has been well trained by McCain's people.
Both of them had prepared responses - Biden kept looking down adn messing with papers.
"Or maybe GW Bush isn't a topic and talking about his policies accomplished nothing in a debate between VPs"
That may be the case. On the other hand, if I were McCain, I would take my cue from the Republican Convention, which, after Bush's opening comment, went on as though he and Cheney were non-persons.
OF COURSE McCain and Palin want to look forward only. They are counting on skhort memories.
OF COURSE McCain and Palin want to look forward only. They are counting on skhort memories.
sort of like how Obama and Biden are looking forward to the citizenry losing focus on a short list of achievements and a so-so list of here and now things they've had only a hand in?
The reason Senator's Obama and Biden have been looking back on the past eight years so much is because the differences between Senator McCain's proposed agenda and the failed policies of the current administration are few and those that do vary from the current policies are extremely slight in their differences. I think what Alec was trying to express is that to look back at the past eight years is to get a glimpse of what the next four years would look like under McCain.
As for your statement:
sort of like how Obama and Biden are looking forward to the citizenry losing focus on a short list of achievements and a so-so list of here and now things they've had only a hand in?
I would like to address this if I may. While I will concede that Senator Obama has less time in office than do Senators McCain and Biden, he has accomplished much in the time he has been in. For example: Senator Obama has sponsored 152 bills and resolution and has co-sponsored 427, two of which have already been passed into law. The Lugar-Obama expands efforts to destroy WMD in places such as the former Soviet Union. The Coburn-Obama Transparency Act created a website for ensuring transparency of funds allocated to government agencies. The website tracks all federal spending and allows google type searches based on agency type, types of funding and so on. Senator Obama also kept his promise to the people of Illinois by sponsoring a bill to increase funding of Pell Grants which was crushed by a then republican senate. In addition to the accomplishments of his relatively short US Senate career, Senator Obama had several noteworthy accomplishments while serving as a member of the Illinois State Senate which he served as a senate member for eight years. For seven of his eight years in office as a state senator, the senate was dominated by republicans and bill after bill which he introduced were squelched. During his last year serving as State Senator, the senate became predominantly Democratic, and during this time he sponsored 26 bills which were passed into law including bills that expanded children's health insurance, and made state earned income tax credit refundable for low income families.
Now let's look at the more seasoned Senator Biden. Senator Biden is the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He has consistantly fought to keep partisan judges such as Samual Alito from becoming Supreme Court Justices. He supported the Equal Work/Equal Paycheck Fairness Act which Senator McCain did not support. Senator Biden also voted to increase the federal minimum wage from a disgraceful $5.15 per hour to an improved $7.25 per hour. He introduced the College Access Legislation that if approved will provide a $3,000 refundable tax credit to students and their families to help cover the cost of education. He co-sponsored the Employee Free Choice Act which protects the rights of employees to form a union without being hassled by their employers. Senator Biden's Crime Bill passed in the 1990's added 100,000 police officers to the streets, helping to decrease the crime rate for eight consecutive years before funding was cut by the Bush administration. His new crime bill which is on the congress floor now would add 50,000 police officers and 1,000 FBI agents to the current number. His Second Chance Act provides housing, drug and alcohol treatment, job training, and counseling for parolees so they may become positive members of society. Senator Biden's Violence against Women Act set up a system of national shelters for abused women and children, as well a national hotline that an estimated 1.5 million victims have utilized. He is currently working on a new bill The National Domestic Violence Volunteer Attorney Network Act which will create a national system to recruit and train volunteer lawyers and infuse 100,000 new volunteer lawyers into the system. These are just a few of his many accomplishments and if you like I could give you many more.
I agree that Palin did better than many thought. I thought she would freeze up or fumble her words. I also agree that she was not as informative to the questions asked to her. Trying to change the subject when asked to defend McCain's deregulation as an example.
I also noticed how she used emotions, as usual, to try to grab voters attention. (Ex.) She spoke about her family living in this society. I do Love how Biden, finally, spoke about the lost of his wife and raising 2 sons.
Using Emotions is what McCain and Palin basically due to capture the voters. That's a good way to manipulate. Obama and Biden speak more about what they intend to do in office.
Palin is an IDIOT and if she gets into office I am moving to Mexico. @!$%# this show! These are the very bottom of the gene pool. She couldn't answer her own name if it wasn't on a freakin' cue card off stage somewhere. I didn't hear her answer ONE single question asked of her, she just kept regurgitating the same old uninformed crap she's heard on TV... or maybe from other "hockey moms". She needs to get back in the kitchen where she belongs!
Palin is an IDIOT and if she gets into office I am moving to Mexico.
Great! Go down there and stand out in front of one of their home depot's, cavrone.
You'll probably do better as a mule.
John McCain and Sarah Palin are not for the average U.S. Citizen. Talking about tax cuts for the average American Citizen is nothing more than a smoke screen to cover up their real agenda which is to sell the American Public down the river by "Outsourcing" American Jobs at a breakneck pace. I have a letter from Senator McCain that says outsourcing is good for the American Public and Big Business. He talks about creating jobs for Americans but Outsources hundreds of thousands of U.S. Jobs to other Countries. He talks about unparalleled wealth for the U.S. but the only unparalleled wealth I see is for the Banks, Financial Institutions, and Wall Street crooks that have created the economic mess we are currently drowning in.
John McCain said to me in his letter: "Referred to by a variety of terms such as "offshoring" or "worldwide sourcing", economists widely agree that outsourcing is an important part of a free-market economy that generates significant benefits for American business..." Benefits for American "Big" business but not for the Average American Citizen. CEOs making millions while their companies rape the Average American Citizen by failing and then taking our tax dollars.
McCain and Palin are not the answer but rather just more of the same continuing problem.
Palin is getting favorable reviews simply because she didn't fall on her face. She explained to the audience that she wasn't going to answer the way Biden or Ifill wanted her to. She also said that she wasn't going to do any more filtered interviews.
Translation:
She will continue to give different versions of the convention speech, broken up into little phrases. She does not want to answer questions, nor does she want to answer follow up questions for clarification. She wants it this way because she has no depth of knowledge on any of these issues. Her knowledge is superficial, like someone that read Cliff notes rather than the Grapes of Wrath.
My question is this:
She has demonstrated that she can turn and twist a question to her benefit, without ever responding to the questioner. She has demonstrated that she doesn't care to respect generally accepted forms of providing the public with information, even has disdain for well respected anchor people. She has said that she wants the Office of VP to have more power. How is this maverick? It sounds just like Cheney!
Cheney is/was a beast that we knew. We knew to be wary of him with all things oil. We were still pawns. This pitbull with lipstick has her sites on the same issues. Should we be more afraid or less afraid of her aspirations combined with her lack of knowledge?
The only reason you expected Palin to fall on her face is because the liberal media set that expectation. Katie Couric is an ultra lib, as are 95% of the media. How would you like to be interviewd by the opposition every time. Then they chose to repeat clips where Palin stumbled. Biden stumbles all the time. He asked a handicapped man to "stand up," He said “You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking.” He called Obama "The first, sort-a, main stream african american who is articulate and clean." Does the media talk about this? Open your eye and get the facts. Stop letting our propaganda filled media dictate to you how you should vote. Information is available everywhere. You don't have to listen to main stream media for your talking points.
Along those lines, Biden made multiple, factual mistakes (or lies) in the debate. Palin did not make any factual errors. What the media is claiming to be errors, are actually debatable. Biden's errors are related to FACTS. People need to learn the difference between facts and opinion.
where the hell is the fact check if Joe actually said those things about Obama while running against him. She called him out twice on it and he denied he said anything flat out? She then said the pundits could check the record today but no one has? AP must be in the tank for O/B as well
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