McCain: Obama link to ex-radical is honesty issue

..a picture is worth a thousand words..

This constant talking about Ayers, and nonpartisanship, are losing issues.  What McCain needs to do at every stop is to name the people responsible for the current economic crisis, and promise to prosecute, and jail,  every single one.  

Franklin Raines having just bought a  $ 4.9m penthouse with the money he stole through fraud at Fannie should connect with supporters.  Bring this up again and again.

Rob, what does that picture have to do with anything?  Honestly, are you casting doubt on Obama because of the actions of another?  Does this pathetic "link" to an alleged terrorist DEFINE who Barack Obama is?  How many other people were on that committee with them?  Let's see.  Hmmm, Sen Dan Cronin , R was involved, according to one source .  Oh, the Board of Directors (according to Wikipedia).

1. Patricia Albjerg Graham
2. Barack Obama
3. Edward Bottum, managing director of Chase Franklin Corp.; former president and vice chairman of Continental Illinois Bank ^[47]
4. Connie Evans, founder and president of the Women's Self-Employment Project
5. Susan Blankenbaker Noyes, former labor attorney at Sidley & Austin ; daughter of Republican former Indiana state senator Virginia Murphy Blankenbaker; goddaughter of Patricia Albjerg Graham^[48]
6. Scott C. Smith, president, CEO and publisher of the Chicago Tribune ; former president, CEO and publisher of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel of Fort Lauderdale ; former chairman of the South Florida Annenberg Challenge
7. Nancy Searle, consultant to the Searle Funds at the Chicago Community Trust
8. Victoria Chou, dean of the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago
9. John W. McCarter, Jr., president and CEO of the Field Museum
10. Jim Reynolds, Jr., co-founder, chairman and CEO of Loop Capital Services

Does Obama get "credit" for hanging with those folks, as well? 

But if we gotta question Obama because of a casual relationship with someone in the last century, we really need to look with anxiety on one of McCain's associates.

A little something I turned up in a search on G Gordon Liddy.  From Media Matters

Radio host and former Nixon administration official G. Gordon Liddy discussed environmentalism; how Adolf Hitler inspired Liddy in his youth; the Vietnam War; child-rearing; Watergate; and his 1994 advice to his listeners to shoot agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in an interview with columnist Johann Hari, published November 22 in the British newspaper The Independent. According to Hari, Liddy called environmentalists "fanatics" like Al Qaeda, claimed that the "official version of Watergate is as wrong as a Flat Earth Society pamphlet," and said that if U.S. policy during the Vietnam War was up to him he would have "drowned half the country and starved the other half. " In discussing Hitler's personal influence upon him, Liddy said that "at assemblies where the national anthem is played, I must suppress the urge to snap out my right arm."

When McCain, for whom Liddy conducted a fund raiser in 1998 and from whom McCain has accept campaign donations, was on his radio show LAST YEAR:

 “I’m proud of you, I’m proud of your family,” [McCain] gushed. “It’s always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.”

..the list of slim increases..

..simple answer...yes...you are who you choose to align yourself with..and his list is deplorable...

This is all part of a broader issue of McCain being REALLY REALLY DESPERATE. If you listen closely enough, you can start to hear the fat lady singing off in the distance...

..more on the passing acquaintance.. 

fat lady singing off in the distance

..can`t argue that point....

In the picture for this article, Palin is wearing so much rouge, it looks like someone burned her face with a hot iron...

Palin's hair is now down to excite those conservative men that have been drooling over her in articles and blogs far and wide.  I guess she'll do whatever, whatever, whatever necessary to get the vote except say anything intelligent that might help her ticket.  This comment is coming from someone that actually had high hopes of seeing something interesting from the McCain/Palin ticket.  I just didn't think interesting would end up being a side show. 

McCain's attacks are just stupid at this point and he's truly running on nothing.  It's a shame to see it happening, a big shame.

..the more "change" I see the more I see things stay the same...

...or perhaps a resignation before we see another Spiro T. Agnew situation.

...perhaps...but I was thinking more along these lines....

Arguably, part of the reason Ayers and other "militants" from that phase of the Underground wish they had 'done more' was to push the U.S. to live up to its ideals and to limit the collateral damage on the Vietnamese people and land so impacted by that war.  

And then there are Todd & Sarah Palin's associations with the Alaska Independence Party.  As David Talbott wrote in a Salon piece dated yesterday, 10.07/2008:

My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.")

It would be interesting if a study could be done on why people will chant “terrorist,” “treason,” or “kill him [Obama]” at McCain/Palin rallies. These people are like the angry mobs in a Western who are ready to hang someone from the nearest tree without any proof of guilt. McCain/Palin are different from Bush in one way--they don’t claim to be Uniters, and in fact are escalating the culture war as blatant Dividers (“country first” my arse).

I have a theory that this extremism and ignorance has become more prevalent because it has been encouraged and capitalized upon by the Republican Party. Still, these people at the rallies are predisposed to gullibility and a tendency to view the world in simplistic, black and white ways (and sometimes short attention spans).

For example, I know people who only watch FOX News because they really believe it (and the likes of Sean Hannity) is fair and balanced. And, despite the very low approval ratings for Bush, they are still talking about how they hated Bill Clinton. To avoid conflict, I use constraint and don’t comment. I find them to be not very well-informed in part because they are anti-science and anti-intellectualism, but mostly they don’t invest time to really learn the facts. However, though they are annoying and even detrimental to our nation, I don’t view them as evil or always completely wrong, or associated with Satan, or that McCain is the Manchurian Candidate, or other such nonsense (though McCain was tortured and held under control of foreign agents who were experts in brainwashing techniques).

These conservatives can’t stomach the idea of any Democrat EVER in the White House and/or Democrats having control of Congress, and God forbid controls of both as Republicans have for years. This is ludicrous, and more importantly VERY anti-democracy. If Republicans were always in control of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches (as well as agencies like the Dept. of Justice that’s supposed to be neutral) this would be a dictatorship, fascism, or communism. As for social conservatives who don’t understand Separation of Church and State, I suppose they want a theocracy as we see in a country like Iran.

I recently heard that the new subject kids know the least about is not geography, math or science, but American history. Well by assessment of the adults (not to be confused with “grown-ups”), parents and teachers don’t know American history, the Constitution/Bill of Rights, checks and balances, free speech and opposition, and any of these things either – so no wonder. The first thing people need to learn is what socialism is. McCain’s proposal to buy more bad mortgages from banks with tax payer money is socialism, and really stupid socialism because we’re supposed to buy these mortgages at face value then renegotiate these at current values.

Conservatives, you place limits on yourselves. You don’t have to watch “state news” because you can even get International news online if you want, and while you’re at it, you can try international foods, you can listen to a wide range of music, you can travel to other parts of our country and the world, and you can OPEN YOUR MIND.

And remember that voting is not just a privilege, it’s a responsibility. Republicans, make sure you really know McCain/Palin, their backgrounds (infidelity, abuse of power, S&L scandal, Alaskan Independence Party, crazy churches, and all their questionable associations) and their positions. You should at least know everything about the candidate you are going to vote for even if you refuse to really know the truth about Obama.

Sarah Palin, Joe Vogler, and The Alaskan Independence Party - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmYqRfp6-x8

John Sidney McCain III himself is an 'honesty issue'.

Tell you what... When McCain starts telling the truth about how he currently employs Richard Quinn, the famed white supremacist, as an adviser, he can start talking about truth telling.

Best summary I've seen yet! Thanks TruePatriot-445959

Republicans, make sure you really know McCain/Palin, their backgrounds (infidelity, abuse of power, S&L scandal, Alaskan Independence Party, crazy churches, and all their questionable associations) and their positions.

Although as a person of faith, I'd like to encourage some caution about dismissing "crazy churches" too callously.  

All I have to say is this:  If any harm comes to Barak Obama physically, Palin and McCain should be held fully responsible and accountable for conspiring encouragement of manslaughter by mendacity.

Why is this woman so readily unavailable for public questioning? 

Why are the lawmakers being so secretive? 

Why are Americans voting for this private secretive ticket???

Thank you, Rob.  It looks like Obama possibly has had the audacity to be involved with people who wanted to bring change to a corrupt and failed system.  While McCain spent his young adulthood boozing and screwing and wrecking US military airplanes and getting away with because of who his daddy was (OMG, sound familiar?), Obama was working to improve his life and the lives of others. I am sure we will never find any sort of connection like this for McCain because, honestly, he's never been anything but a self-centered, arrogant little git with nothing but beating his daddy on his mind.I was willing to poohpooh that as just propoganda.  But now, I find myself in the position where NOT voting for Obama would be criminal.  Please, Rob, have you learned NOTHING about me in nearly 2 years?  I HOMESCHOOLED because I feel the system is so damaged it needs to be destroyed and we need to start over.  My only complaint about "radical" schools being pushed by Ayers is HE DID NOT GO FAR ENOUGH.   I support gutting the federal government, giving all the powers back to the state except for the power to force state governments to respect the rights of the individual and to wage defensive action on our part. DEFENSIVE. I am sure I am not the only one who actually respects Obama more for trying to make dramatic improvements in the lives of children.  Thank you for giving me ammo for converting those people over to him.

Oh, and final thought, NOTHING Obama did while pursuing that goal was a CRIME. McCain has committed a number of crimes, even if he was able weasel out of them. Beyond that he has display a lifetime contempt for others, a shocking lack of self control, and a vile, abusive mouth that does not befit the leader of one of the largest countries in the Free World.

Gweeny, then my friend we truly are from different worlds..and I will defend to the death your right to have your position...but we are on totally different teams here. 

Gweeny, then my friend we truly are from different worlds

And on different meds, no doubt.  I'm on your team on this one.

arcane: "John Sidney McCain III himself is an 'honesty issue'."  well said!

QED!

I feel the system is so damaged it needs to be destroyed and we need to start over.  My only complaint about "radical" schools being pushed by Ayers is HE DID NOT GO FAR ENOUGH.

..Gweeny, who do you blame for the sad state of our schools...?

..is murder justified in bringing the change you envision? Just how far is far enough..is this far enough or maybe this...no Ayers is of the same spawn as McVey .. he just wasn't as competent...

One, my name is GWENNY.  Your deliberately misspelling it to insult me angers me. 

Gweeny, then my friend we truly are from different worlds

And on different meds, no doubt.  I'm on your team on this one.

I'm not on meds.  Another personal attack?  Because I disagree with you I must be taking drugs. 

then my friend we truly are from different worlds.

Not in the same world OR friends.  I've been insulted by you for the last time, Rob

..no I just missed it,my apologies......)):....

..a funny story..for months when me and my wife first started dating I constantly miss spelled her name over and over,she would get sooo po`d, she just knew I was doing it on purpose..I felt like such a heel..so she decided to marry me... then.. so at least I would spell her name right...so I guess that means for better or worst you are stuck with me,I`m sorry it was but a mistake..as we grow older I`ll get right....((:

...hey I thought the med attack was leveled against me and you took it to be levled against you...I admit I should be on idiot pills for not catching your name mis-spelling..but attacking you.. huh you point him/her out I`ll take care of it..

..the different worlds was merely a remark about our experences with NC school systems..ok stop laughing..I know any teacher of mine would dis-own me..lets just call my style is but a  poetic license....I look back fondly at most of the experience...but I admit I have reservation about today's school admin`s..I have two grand-kids that I am very closely involved in with in their education...so I KNOW your trepidation and anger..    

..ok I confess I aint the sharpest tool in the shed..but hey there are a awful lot of you guys in here with me....the `vine is our shed my friend...so please accept my knuckle dragging it was not intentional....

*cyber-hug*

..but I still aint going to support Barack.....phooey..;))

:-]

That is OK Rob, by the looks of things in NC your vote won't matter by election day because Obama is looking to win there (though it is close)

And, NC is one of the states where suspected voter registration fraud is a big issue...

First: I am referring to the polling results and analysis of those results, not voter registration.

Secondly:

Multiple registrations is not fraud, and fake registrations puts the canvaser at risk, not Acorn.

Oh and since multiple registrations are resolved by setting the last registration as the official one and fake registrations or ones that do nto meet the standards (like no SS#) get tossed out, then there is no voter fraud since you have to fraudulently vote for there to be voter fraud.

So, BMS, do you feel federal tax money and/or Obama campaign money should continue to go to ACORN?  Do you feel that's a good use of taxpayer dollars?

Considering the return on investment, yes I do.

The multiple registrations and fake registrations will not affect the vote and account for less than a percent of the registrations gathered by ACORN.

Behind My Screen, no ACORN and it`s ilk from both sides must go. I cannot believe you condone the tampering..1% might be the margin...then the courts get involved again...............

THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME ,JUST DEPENDS IF YOU ARE ON THE WINNING SIDE ...THIS TIME..

Why should the courts get involved when this stuff gets cleaned up at the election board in teh counties?

Also, McCain has trumpted the fact that Leonore Annenburg supports his candidacy.

Which means...John McCain craves the support of TERRORISTS!!!

This is such a stupid game. Can we talk about politics now, John?

McCain Campaign Paid $50,000 to a White Supremacist

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/15/85831/2516/354/457290
John McCain's 2008 Presidential campaign has paid over 180,000 dollars to a political consulting firm called "Richard Quinn and Associates."
They are a firm located in South Carolina. The firm is named after Richard Quinn, who in 2000 was all over the news for sunning the racist tinged "Southern Partisan" magazine.Although McCain's 2008 FEC reports only indcate he paid the firm around $52,000, he also disbursed at least $90,000 to Mail Marketing Strategies, a firm run by Quinn's son.
One would think John McCain had figured out that paying this guy a lot of money from his campaign warchest was a bad idea. But, no. He didn't learn the lessons of 2000.

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2007/YE/C00430470/B_PAYEE_C00430470.html

JOHN MCCAIN 2008 INC.

      PO BOX 16118
  ;     ARLINGTON, Virginia   22215

FEC Committee ID #: C00430470

This report contains activity for a Primary Election

Report type: Year-End

For election on 11/04/2008

This Report is an Amendment

Filed 06/05/2008

RICHARD QUINN AND ASSOC - 52,235.00

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2007/YE/C00430470/B_PAYEE_C00430470.html
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Two faces of Richard Quinn.

Posted on January 20, 2008 by heritagelos, http://heritagelost.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/two-faces-of-richard-quinn/

In 1983, here is what Richard Quinn had to say about Martin Luther King!

"King Day should have been rejected because its purpose is vitriolic and profane. By celebrating King as the incarnation of all they admire, they [black leaders] have c hosen to glorify the histrionic rather than the heroic and by inference they spurned the brightest and the best among their own race…Ignoring the real heroes in our nation’s life, the blacks have chosen a man who represents not their emancipation, not their sacrifices and bravery in service to their country; rather, they have chosen a man whose role in history was to lead his people into a perpetual dependence on the welfare state, a terrible bondage of body and soul."

In 1989 Quinn also supported David Duke for Louisiana State Senate in his magazine Southern Partisan.

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John McCain's White Supremacist Problem

Cliff Schecter Posted April 28, 2008 | 03:02 PM (EST), http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cliff-schecter/john-mccains-white-suprem_b_99014.html

It's good to know where the Senator stands on this issue (at least today). In my book, The Real McCain: Why Conservatives Don't Trust Him And Why Independents Shouldn't, I recount McCain' questionable past on issues of race his entire career. From the many years he rejected a Martin Luther King Jr. holiday (pretty much the entire 70s and 80s) to his serial flip-flops on the Confederate Flag in 2000 (which he admits he did for political reasons -- no way, not you Johnny!) to his close association with a white supremacist named Richard Quinn, who found himself hired as a political advisor by McCain in 2000 (and still is from what I can tell) after openly praising David Duke (he called him a "maverick") selling t-shirts praising the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and writing/editing for a magazine (Southern Partisan) that reminded us that slave masters just really weren't all that bad
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://politicalinquirer.com/2008/06/06/on-mccains-associations-pt-2/

I’ve already discussed these first two a bit previously, so I will just summarize. John McCain actively sought the endorsement of Pastor Hagee prior to the Texas primary, without giving two craps about who he was. Both McCain and his allies give speeches (see AIPAC and others) with Pastor Hagee.

John McCain actively sought to speak to La Raza, a highly racist and anti-American organization, promoting amnesty, and in extreme cases, the return of the Southwest to Mexico. These are the type of people John McCain wants to reach out to this November.
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The Huffington Post, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-mackey/terrorists-secessionists_b_132010.html

Terrorists, Secessionists, Sarah Palin and Guilt by Association

You, Governor, should know better. As I and many journalists have noted, you have strong ties to the Alaska Independence Party. While it was finally revealed that you technically were not a card-carrying member of the AIP, it was discovered that the First Dude, between his life of high adventure in helping you rule your northern fiefdom, his competitive snowmobiling and fishing, was a member of the organization for many years.

Can someone name me one politician that wasn't, at one point in time, involved with someone who wasn't responsible for the death of human beings?

Last I checked, Mr. Annenberg did not bomb the U.S. Capitol, the Pentagon, The Dept. of State, a public statue honoring dead police officers, nor did he state: "I don't regret setting bombs," or "I feel we didn't do enough."

If Mr. Obama can make it through Harvard, surely he knows who his Chicago business associates are and their well-publicized felonious past. Short of that, I find it implausible that no one person ever said to him: "You know that guy that you've known for a few years? Your kids go to the same school...you two spent some hang time together over coffee? He donated a couple of bucks to your campaign? By the way, he's a repeated terrorist ..."

Yeah. I'd say that's a tad more than "objectionable."

If your talking about Ayers, but the time Barack met him, Ayers had become a prominent figure in Chicago and have worked with many politicains on education. He was 8 years old when that stuff happens.

Kids love him. He spends time trying to help them. So for myself, who do I judge, the man in front of me or his past opposing a war.

Doesn't Christianity teaches forgiveness. Has he not given back. He never killed anyone. That's an important fact.  It's hard to be a terrorist and never kill anyone.

Ayers is a notable distinguished professor who won Citizen of the Year Award. Have you know anyone to contribute enough to get that honor?

I think McCain and Palin should leave Ayers alone. He has nothing to do with this Presidential race. How dare these two Christians run Ayers good works into the ground?

All of this BS has been gone over and is part of the new campaign initiated by the McCain campaign and its legion of trolls who infest the Internet blogging the forums and trying to divert attention from McCains inept performance like the did with Kerry in 2004 with swiftboat. If America stands for this again and lets these people steal this election they will be forever sorry. McCain and his crew cannot beat Obama on issues so they resort to tactics like this while he wanders around telling lie after lie making mistake after mistake with no issue he can win honestly even the ones he was supposed to be good at. All of this is easily debunked because it was before when it was brought up. I feel sorry for Mr Ayers being a pawn in this. He had his moments in the 60's when he may have done things wrong. Along with being a weatherman he was also reputed to be an undercover FBI informant. He was never convicted of the many crime attributed to him and now leads a good life doing social work and a well respected professor at the University of Illinois. NcCain and Palin should be ashamed of their selves but when you are desperate and your world is collapsing you grasp at any straw you can if you are as weak as they are.

  It takes a man to stand up and admit he has been bettered. McCain is not a man.

StellaCa, here's what Jesse Helms had to say about Civil Rights protests: "The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights."

There is a much more defined and documented relationship between Jesse Helms and John McCain (and there is more connections similar to this if you like).  Perhaps you already recognize this and have decided that McCain would also be a bad choice.   In that case, I would respect your objective resolve.  Although, you could agree with some of the things that Jesse Helms stood for and it really doesn't matter to you and that would make my whole argument bunk.  

It seems to me that Obama was more interested in improving education in a city that really needed it.  There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that Obama approved of the actions of Ayers.  They probably never discussed it.  McCain, however, knew exactly what the deal was with Helms.  If you play one card... you have to play both.  

Also, McCain's connection to Keating and the family holidays he took at Keating's expense should also be discussed.  Because these are actual, questionable moments of McCain's life. He proved he could be bought and sold.  What do you think?  I'm not even sure if you're a McCain fan... perhaps you dislike both for their "questionable" connections but I'd like to know if you agree. 

If your talking about Ayers, but the time Barack met him, Ayers had become a prominent figure in Chicago and have worked with many politicains on education. He was 8 years old when that stuff happens.

and how old was Obama in 2001 when the Ney York Times ran a story on Ayres qouting from his new book Fugitive Days "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough".

This story ran in the New York Times on the morning of Sept 11 2001 and was talked about in the Chicago Sun Times on April 18 2008

Not to excuse what Bill Ayers did as a radical college student during the Vietnam War, but...during the time he was with the Weathermen, they took great pains to make sure no one actually was injured by the bombs. They issued warnings in advance - and no one WAS hurt. This is one reason why Ayers says he was NOT a terrorist, because he and the others did not hurt people indiscriminately. I know it's not an excuse, but it is a 'mitigating factor' to a degree.

The Brinks thing, in case you bring this up, was LATER, when the Weathermen lost their focus. And Ayers was nowhere around for that one.

Robert Blevins:

Are you kidding me??

"Not to excuse what Bill Ayers did as a radical college student during the Vietnam War, but...during the time he was with the Weathermen, they took great pains to make sure no one actually was injured by the bombs."

So if Mr. Ayers were to detonate a bomb in your family's home, BUT took "great pains to make sure that no one was actually injured" because you were all "issued warnings in advance," that's excusable? That's not terrorism?

INSANITY.

1) what he did in teh 70's has no impact on who he bacame since then.

2)He did not bomb family homes

3)He was never prosecuted for the bombings

4)Obama met him when Obama was put in charge of disbursing 50,000 dollars that Ayers had helped the Chicago Public Schools win in a national competition. At the time Obama met Ayers, Ayers was a proffessor of education witht eh title of "Distinguished" at the University of Chicago and had been dedicated to the public school system in Chigago for many many years.

That's not terrorism?

If one makes a concerted effort to not harm or instill fear in civilians, but attacks purely governmental institutions and figures, then that is not terrorism, that is warfare.

This story ran in the New York Times on the morning of Sept 11 2001 and was talked about in the Chicago Sun Times on April 18 2008

Besides misquoting Ayers above in your comment, Obama's involvement with Ayers was over by 2001.  The CAC project ended earlier in the year.  Are you saying that we are to be held responsible for things people we knew say even after we are no longer involved in the same projects.

Gwenny,  Thank-you and others(RB, BA, BMS) for the clarity.  It is a virtue too often overlooked most especially with the anonymity of these threads.

Three Democrats (Cranston, DeConcini, Riegle) were reprimanded, one Democrat (Glenn) was exonerated, and the only Republican (McCain) was exonerated. Keating went to jail! In fact, the Special Counsel (Bennett, who later became Clinton's lawyer) to the Ethics Panel investigation said he found nothing during the investigation to impugn McCain's integrity.

Keating is a straw dog like G G Liddy! Ayers is a radical socialist today and Obama espouses his same views. But they were only neighbors? Right Sure they were. And Dorhn worked with "that ones" wife starting 20 years ago. Obama would have to have been an idiot to not know who and what Ayers  was Obama is not and idiot but he is the consummate politician and will lie if it is politically expedient. Now and if he becomes president. We cannot afford a liar and politically expedient president.

McCain from Wikipedia

"The Ethics Committee ruled that the involvement of McCain in the scheme was also minimal, and he too was cleared of all charges against him"

"The report also said that McCain's "actions were not improper nor attended with gross negligence and did not reach the level of requiring institutional action against him....Senator McCain has violated no law of the United States or specific Rule of the United States Senate"

Sources cited from wikipedia

"The Online NewsHour: Washington Corruption Probe". PBS.org. Retrieved on 2008-02-21.

1. ^ "Excerpts of Statement By Senate Ethics Panel", The New York Times (1991-02-28). Retrieved on 2008-04-19. 

Donnie:

I will say it again: Cindy McCain and her Daddy made money off of S&L..... and no that was not nothing

And you should read the list from #2.2

1. McCain Campaign Paid $50,000 to a White Supremacist

2. John McCain actively sought to speak to La Raza, a highly racist and anti-American organization, promoting amnesty, and in extreme cases, the return of the Southwest to Mexico. These are the type of people John McCain wants to reach out to this November.

3.John McCain actively sought the endorsement of Pastor Hagee prior to the Texas primary, without giving two craps about who he was. Both McCain and his allies give speeches (see AIPAC and others)with Pastor Hagee.

Does this mean John S. McCain is a racist?? People in glass houses should not throw stones

Ayers is a radical socialist today and Obama espouses his same views.

Oh, man, you got us.  Those damned people who think they can change the way things are.  McCain has never been a socialist.  Just a socialite.  A self serving, boozing, whoring son of a Navy man who was also a boozing, whoring son of a Navy man.  Generations of corruption, crime and immorality.  We will never be able to find a SINGLE instance in McCain life where he committed himself to anything but himself.  You win.

And McCain, continues to lose.  He's a lying, cheating scumbag who doesn't deserve ANY respect from anyone.

Gwen,  Kind of harsh words but, after spending three days reading about the man, I am going to have to agree with you.  I showed some of my research to my husband (an American History buff) and he was floored. 

It did not change his vote because after the campaign he has lead including his VP selection, he was not intending to vote for Mr McCain.

I am so confused as to why HIS character is not 'the' side issue in this election year.  He certainly has a dark past.

He certainly has a dark past.

He does.  I was floored that Clinton got dinged on the behavior of her husband, like the blow job somehow rubbed off on her . . .some site even talked about how her calendar put her IN the White House when it was happening. WTF people.  And yet there has been damned little talk about the repeated acts of adultery committed by flyboy McCain.  About his organising drinking and gambling events while at war.  No mention of Carol at all in the US media until a few of us kept linking to foreign news sites and asking why.  (I fired up a lot of a people, got them to start asking in their news communities.)

honesty because Obama descibed ayers as a man in his neighborhood when he was clearly more.  no, Obama is not a terrorist but if they just served on a baord together, why not just say that.  why leave those years out of your book.  why try to brush aside the relationship if there's nothing wrong with it?

Why would someone mention things that aren't worth mentioning? How many people has he been on some board with? Perhaps he should just name them all in his next book.

When Obama met the man he was a respected member of the community. Ayers was the 1997 Chicago citizen of the Year.

Keep in mind that Reagan's friends, the Annenbergs, put Ayers on the board. Do you think they were ignorant, fans of terrorism, or just realized after 30-someodd years the man might have changed?

When did Obama ever say anything positive about Ayers 'work' in the 60's?

badkung: "Honestly, you just have nothing else to sell, do you?" 

You are SO correct.  Mr McCain has nothing to offer on the real issues and standard Rove-ian tactics are to 'attack your opponent on your own weakest points thereby casting a shadow on any in-kind rejoinder'.  (Sorry Carl. it won't work this time, better tear that page out and write a new one.)

This is all he has got.  Even the most uninvolved voter is getting tired of this.  It is working for Mr Obama, not against him. (So about tearing out that page...or not....either way it is fait accompli)

The bad part about it is the radicals were trying to get the government to come clean and end the war. We were lied to over and over again about it. 

brianba,  Where is your source for this? The IAVA is a non partisan organisation that has endorsed NO CANDIDATE! 

Or are you just like Mr McCain and Mrs Palin and feel that you don't need to substantiate your innuendos?

The IAVA is a non partisan organisation that has endorsed NO CANDIDATE!

:smack:  Learn to read

IAVA (Iraq and Afghan Vets Organition) giving McCain a "D" for his support of vets.  Liar

It doesn't say they endorsed anyone, only that they feel McCain is not  a friend of Vets.

Or are you just like Mr McCain and Mrs Palin and feel that you don't need to substantiate your innuendos?

WTF are you talking about.  There was nothing there not already in the news.

Keating 5.

The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Troopergate.

In a case dubbed 'Troopergate', Ms Palin was accused of sacking her public safety commissioner after he refused to fire a trooper who had gone through an acrimonious divorce with Governor Palin's younger sister.

Shucking off injured wife to hook up with Trophy Wife Cindy.

Some of McCain’s acquaintances are less forgiving, however. They portray the politician as a self-centred womaniser who effectively abandoned his crippled wife to ‘play the field’. They accuse him of finally settling on Cindy, a former rodeo beauty queen, for financial reasons.

Trophy hubby Palin being in a group that advocates secession from the US.

This afternoon, the director of Division of Elections in Alaska, Gail Fenumiai, told TPMmuckraker that Todd Palin registered in October 1995 to the Alaska Independence Party, a radical group that advocates for Alaskan secession from the United States.

Besides a short period of a few months in 2000 when he changed his registration to undeclared, Todd Palin remained a registered member of AIP until July 2002 when he registered again as an undeclared voter.

Gwen,  Please re-read what I said.  My comment was to brianba about a specious claim he made.  IAVA has endorsed no candidate. He needs, when making a comment like this to substantiate like you and others have done. As to your follow on comments, I do not dispute them.

I believe I was clear and do not see where we are at odds.

Oh, and I am quite well read, thank-you.

Sorry about that.  I post from work a lot, at the front desk.  It can take me a couple of hours to get through a long thread and reply when it's busy. :D

No worries ;>)

Well if you're gonna judge it, at least judge it fairly:

None of Mr. Obama's ancestors lived under slavery in North America. The first of Mr. Obama's paternal ancestors to leave Kenya was Mr. Obama's own father, who left in the mid-20th century, about 100 years after slavery had been abolished in the United States.

Several of Mr. Obama's maternal ancestors owned slaves. Mr. Obama's slave-owning ancestors include George Washington Overall (number 110, above, husband of Mrs. Louisiana Duvall Overall and father-in-law of the Christopher Columbus Clark mentioned above) and Mrs. Mary Grable Duvall (number 223, above, mother of Mrs. Louisiana Duvall Overall and grandmother-in-law of Christopher Columbus Clark), both of whom are enumerated in the 1850 Federal Census as slave owners. George Washington Overall is also enumerated in the 1860 Federal Census as a slave owner. Other slave-owning ancestors of Mr. Duvall include John P. Childress (or Childers), who was enumerated in the 1860 Federal Census as a slave owner.

Meanwhile, Mr. Obama continues to rely on the race card in 2008:

"Mr. Obama relayed a story of how his Kenyan father and his Kansan mother fell in love because of the tumult of Selma, but he was born in 1961, four years before the confrontation at Selma took place. When asked later, Mr. Obama clarified himself, saying: "I meant the whole civil rights movement."

Uh-huh.

Next?

:-]

None of Mr. Obama's ancestors lived under slavery in North America. The first of Mr. Obama's paternal ancestors to leave Kenya was Mr. Obama's own father, who left in the mid-20th century, about 100 years after slavery had been abolished in the United States.
  Wrong!

Captured slaves are believed to have waited 2-3 weeks in the Shimoni caves before they were shipped to Zanzibar and from there to Yemen and America. 600-1000 slaves went at a time. About 400 of them would die. In Kenya, slaves came from the Coastal and Kamba communities. Their chiefs sold them to the Arabs.

Many people still make this mistake: Selma was and is what some say when they refer to the Civil rights movement

Even politicians recognize Selma to Montgomery as the main civil rights happening.

In fact John McCain visited it recently.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Vote2008/story?id=4698518&page=1

Spreadex?

1) I do not categorically refute the history of the Shimoni caves. But your info that this applied specifically to the Obama forefathers is pure speculation. Please prove it. Conclusively.

"Captured slaves are believed to have waited..."

2)

"Even politicians recognize Selma to Montgomery as the main civil rights happening."

You might want to inform Mr. Obama of this, because he certainly went to the trouble of backtracking, no? Why single out Selma if it didn't apply specifically to his recollection? Why not Montgomery or Albany or even Birmingham? Selma activists had only begun organizing in 1963. The actual "tumult" from the marches at Selma hadn't occurred until '65!

"Mr. Obama relayed a story of how his Kenyan father and his Kansan mother fell in love because of the tumult of Selma, but he was born in 1961, four years before the confrontation at Selma took place. When asked later, Mr. Obama clarified himself, saying: "I meant the whole civil rights movement."

Three Democrats (Cranston, DeConcini, Riegle) were reprimanded, one Democrat (Glenn) was exonerated, and the only Republican (McCain) was exonerated. Keating went to jail! In fact, the Special Counsel (Bennett, who later became Clinton's lawyer) to the Ethics Panel investigation said he found nothing during the investigation to impugn McCain's integrity.

Straw dog! You all keep playing the same record and it is broken!

Ok Donnie: Here is the same song, same note again...

Cindy McCain and her father made money off of S&L.

Yes and McCain wants to drop everything again and put 300 billion dollars towards delinquent mortgages.

$700 billion + 300 billion= $ 1 trillion dollars

And how may you ask is McCain going to pay for this.

Well He wants to cut  $ 1.3 trillion dollar from Medicaid and Medicare.

Nice huh!

BA, Agreed!

Personally we should be concentrating on Obamas message on issues. Tossing grenades deflects the conversation away from the real issues which McCain cannot win on. Let him run with this all he wants we wil refute it as we keep on the issues. To heck with the Keating 5 and phil Grahm.

I wouldn't go blaming short selling so fast.  It still remains to be seen if there was actually a rush back into the market.  From an article in the business section:

The market had another rough day Thursday, but experts believe that's because of the general malaise about the economy and concerns about the credit crisis. It could take some time before technical analysts can look at volume levels and determine whether short sellers even rushed back into the market.

Furthermore:

The problem is that short sellers act as a cushion during declining markets, snapping up falling shares to cover their positions. In other words, when they complete a short sale by buying a stock that's fallen, they're often buying shares that other investors don't want — and that helps push prices upward.

Meltdown 101: Investors get back to shorting

In the same situation, anyone else would be considered to be of questionable character.

Really?  Well then, you should research McCain's ties to convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy, convicted felon Charles Keating, his sitting on the board of the US Council for World Freedom, which is a group linked to Nazi collaborators and Central American death squads, and his support for the Nicaraguan contras.

Anti American associates do not = your "ties", no comparison

Oh, so it's ok by you that he supports groups that rape and kill women in other countries. I see.  Tells me what kind of person you are.

Against the Obama pig who even campaigned for his terrorist cousin in Kenya(check utube.  Fact I was in sme year and school as your Obam here in Honolulu.  He as detested by most of us becouse of his claimed superiority--his mother a famous anthropologis, father was royalty in Kenya and grandmother a bank VP. Only group that tolerated was basketball team. His goal was to get ahead using others--guess he stil doing it.

Sure, whatever you say buddy.

BS, BA.

Sorry, if you say Obama should come clean with all his connections, I say McCain should too.  No double standards.

Arguably, part of the reason Ayers and other "militants" from that phase of the Underground wish they had 'done more' was to push the U.S. to live up to its ideals and to limit the collateral damage on the Vietnamese people and land so hurt by that war.

And then there are Todd & Sarah Palin's associations with the Alaska Independence Party.  As David Talbott wrote in a Salon piece dated yesterday, 10.07/2008:

My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.")

Isn't is sad that this whole vine seems to be about tit for tat?

Ayers = Keating 5

Wright = Heage

Ayers = Liddy

oops I said Ayers twice. oh gee wiz.

• Don't we have BIGGER concernes here?????
• Are we not in a financial crisis????
• Don't we have 2 wars on some burner, some where???

The "rest of us" will be wearing plain shirts with the words "SERF" on them if the Republicans get their way this time.  I feel that they are not Republicans anymore but Fascists.

I'd rather be with fascists than anarchists

Well, you will probably have to go to Dubai with Cheney then.

Oh so hateful--anarchist=Obama and friends.

Why does it have to be EITHER anarchy OR fascism?  How about.. a civilized, pluralistic, economically dignified, environmentally sustainable, democratic republic that recognizes the realities of an evolving world system?

Kuelo: "I'd rather be with fascists than anarchists"

I have a fine selection of countries that I would recommend.  But for me.....I'll stay here, thank-you!

Kuelo, America did not ask for anarchy. Anarchy is being thrust upon her. McCain is melting down in the face of it. His followers are incited by it.

And you would choose to be a fascist. I think you may already be one. As for myself, I'll choose a revolution before that. Says right there in the Constitution that its my duty. Thats how Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, and all those guys thought, too. Most Americans still admire those guys. Hitler, Mussolini, Pinochet...not so much.

sight, You left out John Adams, my favorite!  ;>)

Definetly counts as one of those guys. Also, Paul Revere, Benjamin Harrison, John Paul Jones...and I just can't picture Patrick Henry saying, "Give me fascism, or give me death!" Good to hear from you again, Barbara in Houston. Good luck against the fish on Sunday.

So.....people don't change?!  McCain was a creep who cheated on his first wife after she was damaged goods from a major car accident.  He left his children so he could take up with the woman he was cheating with....Cindy.  McCain was best friends with Keating who used the money deposited in his Savings and Loan like it was his own....never mind the people who trusted him.  Then John McCain got several honest Senators to believe him that Keating was not guilty of any wrongdoing and got them to try to intervene in the investigation of Keating's crimes.  So......as you say......people don't change - McCain is still the same short, egotistical, near do well that he always was.  So he spent time in a Viet Cong prison  - so did a bunch of other guys.  How come none of them have come forth to say what a hero he was?  He's a hero in his own mind.  And he just has to WIN in Iraq because he was such a loser in Viet Nam.

Stella,

Sorry, friend. Give it up There's a recent picture of this guy trampling the flag. He advocates communism. He repeats he is unrepentant about his terrorist activities and wishes he's done more bombing. Not even sorry for the people who died from his activities.Nothing will change the minds of these people. All they want is more of someone else's money and a kumbaya high. All this talk "he's changed" defense of Ayers....

A certain segment of this population will advocate for Osama Bin Laden once he's been trapped in a cave for another 15 years. They'll call him 'reformed'. Maybe some of them will eventually see the light, but memories and loyalties seem pretty shallow.

Didn't the south replace the American Flag with the Confederate Flag??

They seem to live it down fine.

Everyone has opinions, don't get bent out of shape with it. Violence should not be tolerated.

You're right, Ellie. They'll see what they want to see.

The difference between an unrepentant terrorist and a repentant adulterer is just that...repentance...or in plainer terms: owning one's crap without excuse.

I guess such "minor" details are lost on some several million people.

Again, you're right. Hearers are few.

Stella and Ellie,  This subject has been beaten to death from every angle.  I realize that you wish it to have more substance, but it does not.  If it were like you claim, there would be charges filed or a resignation from the campaign.  There is not.  No conspiracy theory will change that. 

All of this with Ayers, Wright, Rezko et al has been exposed to the 'light of day' and it is vapor. We have all seen the reports and neither of you have any special 'inside knowledge' no matter your snarky they-are-so-blind-they-will-not-see comments. 

It is a non-issue.  These are facts that we are have been here to live through over and over and over again.  Mr McCain has nothing else, does that not tell you something?  If he had something else, he would use it.   By his own lack of follow on........QED.

Special inside knowledge? Are you kidding me? The fact that these sketchy associations and ties are so blatant, yet seemingly immune to due scrutiny is plain appalling and shameful. You accuse me of being snarky? Look at these threads swollen with Republican slams, name-calling, and personal attacks of both candidates and fellow 'Viners. "Snarky" is too kind a description anyone could say about such posters.

Mr. Obama's questionable associations are so numerous, it's hard to keep up with them. The questions were levied well before the primaries. Hardly anyone knew who he was before the primary, and really, still don't...even with two self-penned books under his belt. They're about him, but the consensus has been no one outside his inner circle really knows him. It's more than telling when the public isn't allowed to vet their prospective presidential candidate to make an informed choice.

My unease is that if a candidate is indeed free of any wrongdoing, there should be none or very little protest to inquiry. In fact, such investigations into these associations ought to be welcomed, not whined about. There are differences between insisting upon transparency and personal attacks. It would seem as though Obama supporters want neither - perhaps for fear of just what that "light of day" will reveal.

Stella,  I don't hear any whining from Obama, but the whine from McCain supporters that none of their vitreous sniping can really score a bullseye. The point is, people supporting Obama do so because they are weary of the Entrenched Political Hack, symbolized by tha McCain bid. Americans seem to be pretty upset, and ready to take the chance that McCain insists is too risky.

Having grown up in the sixties just a few miles from Kent State, I can tell you that the "us vs. them" was quite real and quite dangerous. There were "terrorists" in the government, too.  

sightseer.... Please consider that Obama, genuine or not, does know the value of branding...and he does it very well, sometimes unnervingly so. Others are his mouthpiece for him when it gets testy, much like Palin is for McCain. But I'd rather McCain just be who he is, like Biden is. Who wants contrived, anyway?

I hear you, I do. Yet the same could be said all the way around, no? It isn't so superficial as you may think on the McCain side (sure, there's always exceptions). People truly are worried about this country, our freedoms, and where the values that have epitomized us are going. This Newsvine forum *is* pretty indicative of how anti-McCain folks can be, and so much of it is not at all respectful...and that's being kind. Sure there are exceptions, but it never fails to surprise me when it occurs.

Kent State: Like you, I've seen both sides...been in the thick of it...and the utter frustration of both. Respect still never goes out of style, however. What a concept, huh?

Nobody has had more of an adgenda than Bush/Cheney and now McCain - for Palin - her only agenda is to get people to look at her.  If you believe McCain is an honest man, then obviously you are the one who is dlusional.  Do you think all blacks are Muslims?  Do you know any Muslims that aren't terrorists.  Obviously not.

A... B..., that video is nothing but a warped fabrication, unlike the following factual and damning information about McCain:

http://bravenewpac.org

http://www.votevets.org/video/

- Ludmila

Ludmilla, Saw those links today.  Truly chilling.