Big Three carmakers line up for another bailout

Well If they dont get welfare they will go under, The Big European Credit insurers just pulled the plug on GM and Ford. They are now Blacklisted, so bankruptcy is almost inevitable. So the USA will not have an Auto industry, Oh the irony, :) 

Somehow I doubt the US will ever not have an auto industry. What will happen if we withhold a bailout is that one or more of these companies will go down. But eventually something will take their place. There is just too much demand for America not to have an auto industry.

But instead, we'll bailout these failing archaic auto companies, companies that are failing for a reason, and instead of some new innovative companies rising from their ashes, the archaic behemoths will continue to fail, and they'll need yet another bailout in a decade or so.

By keeping these loser auto companies afloat, we are preventing new and innovative companies from being able to form and succeed.

This is so true, There are actually a number of US auto makers that could in time, if there was sufficient infrastructure and energy that could fill this gap. The lesson should have been learned from the US motorcycle industry, which, literally invented motorcycles as we know them in the early days of the 20th century. However they never recovered, and I have to wonder if the car industry will suffer the same fate. 

I agree let them  file for bankruptcy and uses their own money to rebuild and maybe cut down on the number of model cars they make. I also read if they do laid someone off the union see that they are pay anyway do to the contract unless the person take another job that should be change.

They build a lot of their car south of the border but still sell them for a high price here and that is wrong. Maybe the union worker should take a cut in pay in order to have job the company only make two or three model of car and build some that will get good gas mileages they would sell. They have had sense the 80's to build cars with better gas mileage and elected not to.  No bailout , how many other companies are going to also be asking for bailouts.

How are the foreign auto companies ( that produce vehicles here ) faring in America at this time? I'm sure they have slowed but I haven't heard them using the word crisis yet. I think most Americans would agree that the big three have been mismanaged for many years. Any financial help they receive from taxpayers has got to be somehow tied to producing a more viable product in the future. The near future. It seems to me that one, if not all three, need an i-pod. A game changing product that can be so overwhelmingly embraced by consumers as to make the companies profitable again. Remember in Business 101 it all starts with a good widget!

How many of you would have a different opinion if the Big three workers were not represented by the UAW?  I sure would like to know if you are willing to let thousands of non-unioned suppliers go down the tube just to make a point.

Sally York, I agree with you in principle, I hate the lack of Union organization in the USA, but there comes a time when even Unions must accept reality. We dont still make steam engines just to keep boiler makers in a job, and thats the position detroit has got itself into. 

Seems like the name of the game is bail me out,  I could use a million billion!

The million in that comment should be crossed out, but the comment thing is not accepting it, sorry!

Yes just let them file bankruptcy and if you live on a pension you worked 30 years to get it will be gone, because the bankruptcy court will liquidate all cash.  I am not in favor of a bail out, but we can give million/billion a year to foreign countries who hate us, but we cannot give a loan  LOAN I said to our Country. 

We gave billions to the banking industry so they can party no one seems to care about that, they are using that money to buy banks, give raises and bonuses that OK.  But a Loan to the Auto Industry is a bailout give me a  break. 

I hope you guy are independently wealthy because you are going to need  it if the Auto Industry in this Country disappears.

I don't want it to disappear, but it has to re-tool in order to survive. That has to mean that shareholders take a loss like the rest of us. I 've lost a lot in this meltdown. It's a lot to me but not to the corporations.

Sally York, see old_newby in #6.2 below.  I think that's a far better idea.  If you're going to socialise things then socialise society, not the losses of mega-corporations.

All of your points are well taken.  There is already moves in this direction.  The Volt for GM, many alternative fuel products coming out of Ford and Chrysler, but the economy caught them as it did most of us. 

There is a pattern to follow with this, the Chrysler LOANS, all of which was paid back with interest ahead of time.  I cannot justify in my mind a give away of 700 + billion dollars to the Insurance and Banking Industries with no strings attached and making the Auto Companies jump through hoops just to get an audience with its government.

I add one more thought if all of these companies agreed tomorrow to ditch the Union the loans would flow.  Business does not want those working for them to have any kind of say over their lives.  They do not want to rent your body for 8 or 10 hours they want to own you 24/7.  Those days will never return so they may as well give up. 

I don't know your ages but I am 71 and I remember as a kid that a vacation in my family was a three day weekend and that Friday or Monday was without pay.  My dad work for Chrysler and I remember the big deal it was when they got Holiday pay, up until then Holidays there was no work no pay and if there was any overtime assigned the next week it was at straight time because you didn't have 40 hours in.  We are getting back to that real fast.    

I agree with you on the other bail-outs, those are crazy.  I'm 34, for the record :)

replytoj001;

Let the Big 3 file for bankruptcy, take the 25 billion bailout, and give it to the unemployed auto workers and unemployed suppliers, as workers compensation.

We can live on that for years while we retrain for GREEN JOBS, the jobs that should replace the standard automobile mentality. Then the failed corporations will have to re-tool, if they want to stay in business, it's only justice.

Right on! That's what I say.

I really liked that... Publicly subsidised, privately profitable... You said it ALL !!!

Dan you bet I am writting my letters and making my phone calls but it is for a Loan please get that in your head it is a Loan.   The 700 billion was a bailout all the way after Paulson changed the rules, what is Paulson a Republican, a Nixon republican and he and Bush just out and out stole this money so their buddies can go party and get raises and naturally to keep the stockholders happy. 

Why didn't we make the 700 billion a loan.    You have already taken it in the rear you just havent felt the pain yet obviously.

Dan,

I think the whole duopoly is full of crap. the Republicans say "You can keep your guns, but we want control of your morals ( read anti-gay marriage, pro life, church telling you how to vote?)...or...the Democrats saying "we want to take your guns away because guns kill and we can't have guns in the hands of people...because guns kill! 'scuse me! Rebublicans start wars. Guns do not kill. Bad people kill people...all over this world, and this Republicrat duopoly sides with the big money corporations that profit from world conflict. And these bailouts are just another example of corporate control of our country. I believe I've said enough.

Dan, read the article, this is the Democrats pushing for this bailout. That's because a good portion of the bailout money will end up right back in Democratic pockets through the Detroit Auto Unions.

*golfer's clap*

That says it all man!

You are breeding failure!

Its to late Pandora's box is already open!!  Once they bailed out the banks and HOLLYWOOD, please for the love of all that is holy don't forget that, and decided to change how they plan to disperse the money, it's open season for anyone else left in a lurch!!

We are just pushing off the inevitable until a later date.. Our children, or grandchildren, but the crash will come.  I would much rather take this responsibility now so our future families learn from our mistakes, and do not repeat this awful trend!

We can't keep sweeping painful times under the rug!  This time we have to teach the future about what is happening.

You mean like a safety net for workers they don't need?

The auto companies are not asking for a bailout.  They are asking for a loan with interest.  Much different from a bailout.  They have never asked for a bailout.

It doesn't matter if you call it a loan or a bailout, it is doubtful if they could repay the government after they file for bankruptcy. Who would want to buy products from a near bankrupt company like GM and Ford? They should ask the UAW and the oil companies to loan them the funds they need and not the government. Granted they were loaned the amount they need to stay afloat, can they sell their products? GM's market share last month is 28% that means, more than half of Americans are not interested in their products for their lousy reputation in quality and reliability. So who can they sell their products to?

The loan is designed to keep them from filing bankrupcy.  As for the lack of sales, that can be attributed to the financial mess.  People can not get loans to purchase vehicles.  All of my people are extremely well paid and still could not qualify for auto loans and I assisted several with vehicle purchases in the past few weeks.   

I am not sure where those bad quality vehicles are you mention, but it is certainly not from the U.S. auto companies anymore.  They compete quality wise with everyone else.

I have long given up on GM and Ford products due to their poor quality and unreliable, mostly in the shop for repairs than on the road. They might have caught up with imports on quality but it is too late to bring customers back to the showroom. In my neighborhood alone, most drive import brands and very satisfied with their purchase. I spent many days driving a rental car cause my domestic POS was in the shop most of the time. What a relief it is to drive an import with no interruption and inconvenience to my hectic schedule. My loyalty is to the brand that deliver satisfaction to my driving needs.

A very large percentage of the auto mess can be laid right at the feet of the UAW and their ability to get what thay have wanted over the years thru the threat of long costly strikes.  51% of the cost of a vehicle comes directly from wages and benefits.  The womb to tomb package, job banks etc all take huge dollars to manage.

No argument the product lines have been lacking until the past few years.  Just when the Big 3 get their act together in that regard, the financial mess hits them

As for the bonus paid to management, there is little that can be done about that.  You need good people and to have good people, it cost money.  I have 4 people in my company that make more than I do and I own the company.  

51% of the cost of a vehicle comes directly from wages and benefits.

.......

As for the bonus paid to management, there is little that can be done about that.  You need good people and to have good people, it cost money.

That does not only apply to upper management.