Automakers need to make case for government aid

bailout of banks wouldn't have made much of an impact on us.............apparent now, with change in direction..........but, will jobs losses be as widespread as reported?  Will this further the foreclosures?  Will this press a great many americans into the abyss?

Now where is the hysteronics?  when it counts?

Just thinking outloud.

These companies hold such a big portion of the job sector.  And if there are less companies producing autos, the prices will just inevitably increase.  But if the money were used to start new companies to counter the losses suffered by the big three, it could possibly balance out.  Perhaps economically sustainable car companies could become the new norm.

have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiWd0bGAdc

Silicone valley among others are hiring auto makers for their electric car.

That's great! Silicone valley is of course always way ahead of the curve.  Hopefully this will add some jobs and encourage others to start similar projects in different locations.

The problem is that, unlike say the airlines, the big three get their parts from hundreds of small suppliers around the country. If they file for bankruptcy then the first thing that happens is that they freeze payments to those suppliers and they'll start dropping like flies as they shut down. The big three certainly would survive it, but 100,000's of other jobs probably would not. Unemployment would skyrocket and many of those people would not get ever get their jobs back. The cost to the government would be huge in lost income tax, increased food stamps, welfare, retraining, etc.

Not to mention over $100 billion in pensions that they wouldn't have to pay.  Of course those pentions are insured by, you guessed it, us, taxpayers.

If.........parts are not available?

If cars that are affordable are not available?

How does this impact mobility?  Work closer to home?  reducing ?

those unemployed by this will be forced to collect unemployment.  Maybe be 'trained' in something else? or.............

what about the manufactor of commercial vehicles? this go overseas?

UK is doing well with Ford....is this Ford's way of going "home" ?

for sure will impact and bust the union?

reducing wages, but how far?

what other industry has good wages.........and how are they doing?

and what about the world picture? can we ignore that in this press to dole out billions more when.............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiWd0bGAdc

Oh I certainly don't support giving them the money without strings attached, such as massive cuts in executive pay, some restructuring, dumping the head of GM, etc. But to not give them the money somehow would be too big of a hit on our economy in the best of times. Besides if they go belly up then the politicians who didn't support the help will lose their jobs too and I think enough of them will realize it in the end, except for those in the lame duck session that are not coming back in January anyway.

There's no doubt that they have to restructure.  The question is if they'll survive long enough to do so.

The big three must accept some government oversight and restructuring as part of the loan package or they'll be the ones to face the wrath of the people they put out of work. The problem I think most people are having is that many of them are looking at the $700 billion dollar bailout that hasn't done any good yet because the Treasury Secretary is handing out the money, but the banks and mortgage companies are sitting on it and hoarding it, rather then using it to help people avoid foreclosure. The current Congress and administration is unwilling to enforce the requirements that would force the banks to restructure loans because the GOP leadership is in bed with Wall Street (and the Democrats don't yet have the votes to get past them), so people wonder will the new Congress and administration slip under the covers with the big three too?

Does anyone believe it would be possible to let them go through chapter 11 and use this 25 billion to bail out the suppliers that will suffer because of someone elses failings?  GM/Chrysler/ford can restructure and we can attempt to contain the ripple?

I don't think, in their position, that they could afford to make the terms though.  They will have to accept whatever conditions are given if they are handed monetary aid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiWd0bGAdc

The administration is in bed with Wall Street, which is why they were happy to support a bailout of the investment banks and mortgage houses. That's also the reason why they don't want to see any of the bailout money re-directed to the big three. The truth is the Bush GOP doesn't give a damn about saving the jobs of the average workers, but they're more then happy to fatten the bottom line of Wall Street by funneling our money to them. I agreed that this (bank) bailout was necessary, but it's not being enforced and won't be until the new administration takes over in January. The problem with that is that I don't think the big three can wait for Obama to get into office and they need a bridge now, but the outgoing republicans don't care because they're leaving anyway, so why not screw the voters one more time before they go? They're not worried about re-election, so suddenly they can get all ideological.

he's going to paraguay..............no one ever asks why, they assume he is fleeing.  He is not fleeing.  He is retiring there after a successful plunder of our resources, and ability to manage ourselves in the face of falling resources.  We won't need cars.

always with the polly anna:)

devil1

 you are about the dumbest one here

again devil1 is full of bull s$^* what did you get out of the iraq war, i lost a brother. you

I agree Wizeguy.  There is no way we can not help them out.  It would start such a quick downward spiral to let them go under, we would not recover for a long time.  Although, now the big three have to at least spell out what they plan to do with the money in order to receive it. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/21/AR2008112103680.html?wpisrc=newsletter

He is counting on how unbelievable it is to average americans.

This not class envy, it's class warfare and the average American is losing. Of course Bush didn't invade Iraq to get the oil, he invaded Iraq because war is very profitable to private contractors. This invasion is exactly what it was meant to be, a way to funnel huge amounts of public (taxpayer) money into private bank accounts of the already rich. Same as the prescription drug program. Close your eyes to it if you will, but that doesn't mean it's not happening anyway.

Oh and I care about your opinion of me why?

it's warfare...........you both agree on that, but for different reasons.

You absolutely right..........just way to late!  Now the wealth in this nation have proceeded to the point where the masses will not catch up IN TIME!  We are going DOWN........your right about two years ago.  Now is the situation.....NOW is time to try to patch the biggest whole in our bow.  they have a gun to our heads!  a compromise nhow would have at least forestalled millions of unemployed Americans.

but its to late.......now we had better get out perverbial heads to getehr or hunker down for the worst possible time in your life. 

Cramer is a market guy, but he knows history.  Financially, he says there is no way inaction will make due until Jan........"we don't have time to wait for Jan."

now consider the other issues, unemployment (double digit, and that isn't including those who are ineligable!) so we are a breath away from double digit.

then consider the loss of rights we have suffered....and if you don't know you NEED to inform yourself.......we are talking about families, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, cousins, grandparents, sons, daughters,..................do what is best for your family and inform yourself.

today was the first day of no time left to bicker, look around you.

When too much wealth is concentrated at the top of the spectrum, like it is now and like it was before the depression, the economy becomes unstable.

Don't lie Prophet............this is nothing like the predepression environment, or if you have something to link to that says otherwise I am open.  But rest assured that today's announcement makes your simple statement look a bit undressed. I would like nothing better then believe we are going down a familiar road.  Show me we are.

Maybe the oil companies should buy the auto companies.

well said.