Amsterdam moves to close a fifth of 'coffee shops'

Well... if the potheads weren't already in a tizzy, they're gonna be in a tizzy now...

Dude, doesn't it just like make more sense to move the schools? Man, can ya dig what I'm sayin'?

The schools had too many field "trips" to the coffee shops.  Something had to be done.

well actually.. Amsterdam has some of the lowest juvenile marijuana smoking population on the planet. Lower than the US where you cant get it in stores(except cali). It really goes to show how politicians use children to pass laws they couldnt pass without using children.

See their problem isnt children.. just some right wingers are sick of the drug tourists(and yeah they went all conservatvies after 9-11 as well) so to combat drug tourists they make up this crap about the smoke shops being so close to schools.

But here is the rub.. perhaps the reason they have such low rug usages by the kids.. it's cause the kids can see it.. no one is trying to hide it from them.

freaken sicken but proves politicians are politicians no matter the democracy but I tell you what.. when ever somethign is done to protect the children.. you had better study it..cuase most likely it will be used in a totally differnt way for totally differnt purpose.

Since they decriminalized what have been the changes in other crime statistics if any?  Does anybody know?

Scuba-Jason

Here, Here!! I totally agree with you about the medicinal affect marijuana has particularly on patients who are currently being treated for cancer.  The radiation and chemotherapy destroys the body tissue and most of the time makes the patient so nauseated that they can't keep down food or get sick trying to eat.  Marijuana gives the appetite a boost which strengthens the body and helps fight the disease. 

I know people who have been long users and go no further with drug use but that.  I don't buy that it is a social destroyer as well, most people seem quite content not to fight or argue and be nothing but loving and agreeable after sending up their smoke signals. ;)

Why any government would move to close successful businesses that contribute to their economy is beyond me.  Seems like a case of don't bite the hand that feeds you.  Guess their economy's so strong that they can take steps to limit it.

I agree with JoulesBeef.  I concur in the reasoning that juvenile marijuana smoking is low is because it's out in the open; there is little to no 'badness' about it, it's legal, it's cool, no one cares.  In talking to a few people I know who smoke pot, the reason they started to begin with was either a) a method to relax or b) to send an 'up yours' to some form of authority in their lives, with the latter being the majority. 

Now moving to close the 'coffee shops' close to schools is reasonable, I suppose, by then why not just close all of them? It's like closing the liquor store thats always closest to the party...people aren't gonna stop drinking at the party, they're just gonna hit up the next closest one for what they want.  In our modern day and age, I would say it's rare that we encounter instances (within reason of course) where it's impossible to get what we want, goods-wise that is.

Derek:  contrary to popular belief, smoking pot in Amsterdam is not legal.  It is just not frowned upon by the cops--they have better things to busy themselves than a few potheads.

But, I think it's a good reflection that the government is aiming to have the pot accessibility as far away from schools as possible.

Dam Inflation!!!!!

Why don't they just shut the school down instead, now there is a much better idea

I did read it - and thanks for the review but my attention span is still okay to this limit.

Amsterdam has 1/2 the cannabis use rate of the US, and 1/3 the cannabis use rate by kids under-15.

Probably the most fundamental difference between Amsterdam and the U.S. that I noticed is that the U.S. associates cannabis with alcohol and Amsterdam associates cannabis with coffee.  

Any thoughts on this observation Prompt?

I've yet to visit Amsterdam, but from my understanding you are right. Another good analogy would be cigarettes and cannabis, as it is more common to see people rolling joints of hash or cannabis mixed with tobacco. Though tobacco is much worse for ones health.

Stick to the growing number of Middle Eastern joints, or the well-established Indonesian restaurants. Very good food...

instead, they'll be replaced by starbucks and mcdonalds.

I love little sidewalk vendors--they have the best food.  And I agree, plenty of Middle Eastern joints that have amazing food!!

PS.  And it's been a few years since I was in Holland....  Oh, but the food...  I didn't even venture into cafe's with my husband.  We were too busy eating the Middle Eastern way through Amsterdam.

I like the Indonesian food in Amsterdam the best. 

Stick to Brojes (I think that's how they are spelled, traditional Dutch sandwiches), they are the best Dutch food anyway in my opinion.  Otherwise like everyone else said, Middle Eastern & Thai food is GREAT in Amsterdam. 

I agree with keeping them away from schools.  I thought that was a pretty common law to keep certain businesses a certain distance from a school. Maybe not though.

The one bad thing that can come of this is the fact that some of the best coffee shops in the city are on the outter rings (canals), which is more residental & less touristy.  They are the shops most of the locals tend to go to because there are less tourists.  Those are most likely the ones in the most danger of being closed.  The only one in City Center that was even worth visiting was Kandinsky, otherwise they are all tourist traps. 

The only one in City Center that was even worth visiting was Kandinsky, otherwise they are all tourist traps. 

Typical tourists, we still have souvenir coasters from The Bulldog Cafe!  :~)

Ah yes the Bulldog.....everyone has to have their 1st trip sometime ;)~ 

It already is in places like Texas.  You just have to have the opinion of a dozen nimrods that the individuals life should become ash.

No Helen, it won't.... so don't.

BTW are you high?

I think you know what you're talking about.

Thanks Darro,

Liked your stuff that you have written.  Hows socal, I'm in the Central Valley by Hollister.

I'm Ft Worth, TX!  Do you know people always guess me from ca?  I suppose it's the inherent coolness.  :)

Must be the coolness factor. 

I've travelled and worked extensively in western Europe.  Like most Europeans, the Dutch are pragmatic when it comes to alcohol and drugs.  Children grow up with it without the stigma attached to it in the U.S. and for the most part don't develop drug related problems because they are exposed to it early in life and live in a society in which intoxication, especially public intoxication, is socially unacceptable. 

On average Dutch citizens do not smoke more marijuana, and in fact smoke slightly less, than British and French citizens.  However, they certainly do like to drink quite a bit, though in cute 8 - 10 oz servings of Heineken and Grolsch that get their foam topped off with spatulas at a pub.  But there's plenty of drinking.  But when you have trams, trains and bicycles to get around in when you live in a city instead of cars, drinking is far less troublesome.  Also, they can hold their liquor like champions, and in my experience are on average not especially obnoxious or violent at all when drunk.  Pragmatism does run deep in Holland.  They built back most of their land from the sea.

And no homes can be built from wood thanks to a huge fire in 1452.

It's technically illegal.  Law enforcement simply looks the other way.

You can't smoke it *in public* out in the open. Law enforcement won't search you for drugs if stopped for something else. And they won't do anything at all if you're smoking indoors either in a private residence or in a place that's known to offer it, like the coffee houses. You don't see people lighting up a joint in, say, a regular restaurant though...because it *is* illegal, but tolerated.

Agent K - is a drug test standard for all kinds of employment where you are?

Yes! Everywhere, no worries I don't even drink.

Not really, they do a good job of marketing themselves as does Switzerland though.

Which country in your opinion would be the most culturally and economically enlightened one?

The United States.  It's why it's the envy of the world.

Sure Dev, while your at it, quit bogarting that blunt.  The. U.S. is not the envy of the world.  Perhaps it was, at one time.  But perhaps we were just believing our own press, as usual, and had the blinders on a little too tight.

The country does not exist.  The people however live in the extreme australian outback.  They are the nomads.  They live in harmony with the earth and each other and communicate telepathicaly.  They have no economy, there is no money.  They are more evolved then we.  An economy or any socioeconomic system for that matter is still nothing more then a pale reflection of the real flesh and blood people that it represents and it is a tool of control and repression, always has been.    The world has forgotten that presicient fact.    Very soon, the only credit people will have is the credit they build up between themselves and another person.  And that was all you ever needed in the first place.  Want what you need and be grateful for what you receive.  Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.  Pretty simple stuff.

Check out the number of legal applications for asylum and immigration to the United States versus other countries.  Also, check out the number of university applications and work visas from foreigners trying to go to school or work in the United States versus other nations.  Furthermore, check out the overwhelming majority of nations around the world that have modelled their governments on the U.S. Constitution and democratically elected representative republic.  Then get back to me.

Dev

check out the overwhelming majority of nations around the world that have modelled their governments on the U.S. Constitution and democratically elected representative republic

Just FYI democracy was not invented in the U.S. and your Constitution is modelled on the British and French originals.  Not bashing your country but please be aware...  this arrogance is annoying to non-Americans.

Um, neither France nor England has a constitution that is anything like the United State's and neither has  a bill of rights that is enshrined in the constitution and enforced by the independent judiciary.

The founding fathers were influenced by the classical liberal philosophers and thinkers of the day including Rousseau, Hobbes, Hume, Locke and Smith.

In fact, one of the reasons the French supported the American Revolution financially, militarily, and spiritually was because of the ideals of classical liberalism that were lacking in French society that they saw in the nascent colonies.

I am often wrong on a lot of things but it is my understanding that the US constitution was (is) based on the Iroquois Confederation.

DevNull

Congratulations on your unique Bill of Rights and Constitution and all that. Clearly the USA is a special unique country... just like everywhere else.

Contrary to your opinon, we don't all necessarily 'envy' you out here in the rest of the world. In fact we feel like you - that our country is generally superior and has the best deal for democracy and freedom.

You may not, but statistically speaking the world does envy the U.S.

Statistically speaking why envy the US? It is a relatively crowded melting pot (complete assimilation) of culture with little to no social welfare, severe pollution problems, a form of election that doesn't guarantee majority rules, and a ridiculous amount of government debt, as well as being currently involved in a war that is losing support.  Of course, there are issues such as these in every nation, however, I wouldn't be so quick to say everyone is envious of the United States.  In fact, the common thought that seems to be attributed to Americans in thinking that everyone envies them further contributes to the stereotype that Americans are typically arrogant. 

I am in general agreeance with glinda in that they believe their home land is the perfect place to live.  My above argument, however, was to justify this point: everyone has different beliefs and values, and those are key in forming their opinion about which nation is ideal. (Some of my beliefs and values are listed above; I value social welfare, cultural individuality, and responsible, majority rules government.)  You may value different things then me, or anyone and everyone else, and that is how you may formulate your opinion on what an ideal nation would be. As well, one of more key reasons France supported the American revolution was, essentially, to try and weaken a major rival, Britain, and to potentially gain a major ally, the newly formed United States of America.  Thanks.

Speaking of Amsterdam, I used to work there on occasion and have been there probably at least a half dozen times.  I just bumped into an old high school friend that I haven't seen in about 25 years today.  He told me he was robbed, stabbed in the stomach, and attempted to be thrown into the canals for dead in the red light district when some guy in a Volvo saw what was going on and tried to run the perpetrators over.  The robbers fled and he was rescued hanging from a street lamp pole over one of the canals.  He went to a walk-in clinic and was patched up and went out to a business dinner with one of his colleagues.  Freaky, huh?

Yikes, sorry for your friend, thats terrible.  Good to hear he managed to make it through and still get the business dinner on time.

This guy has had some tough luck.  I asked him if he were married or has kids as he was giving me his contact info and he told me his long-time girlfriend recently died from pancreatic cancer.  He also told me a few years ago he was training for the Ironman competition and some old woman ran a red light and hit him head on on his bicycle.  He went straight through the windshield and when she slammed on the brakes, he went straight back through the windshield.  It took him two years before he could walk again.  Yikes.  He also lost millions when the dotcom crash occurred, but that's irrelevant in the scheme of things.

Hey thanks Richard.

Where did I claim the U.S. is the only country in the world who can lay claim to "greatness?"

Dev Null:

I am not saying you said we are the only country who can lay claim to greatness.   I am keying in on the "envy of the world" statement.  You're right and my bag for interchanging the themes too loosely.

However.   The main theme doesn't change.  That we are the "envy of the world" is a very broad statement.  Has much of the world tried to emulate our economic model in the past?   Absolutely.  Many also recognize it's deficiencies as well.   Has much of the world  also respected our historic humanitarian orientation, particularly after WWII?  Again, absolutely.   Have many of the disadvantaged or persecuted come to the U.S. because of opportunities that didn't exist at home?  Yep.  

That doesn't necessarily mean the world envies us or everything we stand for.     The world also has seen our mistakes and deficiencies.  There have been many.  My overall point is that we can't assume we are any better than anyone else and that we are inherently better.   According to the Bible, Pride is one of the major sins.  In a more pragmatic context,  if we maintain an introspective and self-critical orientation we can recognize our strengths and improve on our weaknesses.  In those areas we excel, others will want to emulate us and will respect us.   We don't want the world to envy us, this implies others want something we have and they can't have.  Isn't envy another of the sins???? 

The U.S. is the envy of the world.

You may deny it, but the truth is what it is.

Ain't gonna happen.  Blanket pardon would alienate too many people as too radical too quick, would make it difficult to impossible to work other issues that unfortunately are more important right now.    Cutting off funding for the DEA would work for marijuana imported, but would do minimal to law enforcement on native grown stuff or for violations of state and local laws.... where most of the enforcement is.  Plus, it would cut off funding for enforcement of laws for the drugs that really hurt people such as the different types of speed and heroin.

This could go to the argument that all drugs should be decriminalized, but there is no way the U.S. is ready to go that far anytime soon.

I have an idea that I think WILL work because it plays to the fact that government needs money real bad and it is incremental, would not require major federal changes to the law and plays to state's rights. It would not be considered so controversial and would help give a definitive answer whether it causes any social harm.   Have been fleshing it out for several months, will be posting when complete.