GM says it needs $12 billion loans by late March

Zombie!! Party!!!

Stop this!! Now!!

Zombie, the name calling is absolutely regoddamndiculous. You are an adult human being. Name calling such as the way you are doing it is an abomination.

Party, please! Comment 1.4 egged him on. Calm down.

I swore I wasn't coming back in this article but Zombie in another thread apologized to me for the way he came off in here. That's why I came back.

Zombie, you apologized to the wrong person. But I'm telling you now. If you and I ever have a discussion to where you don't like my opinion and you call me any of those names as you did to Party, our friendship will cease to exist. And I don't want that ever to happen. I have too much fun and respect for you. But seeing your choice of words is making me hot.....and not in the way I like being heated.

Please, the 2 of you. Make some kind of amends. You don't have to like each other and you don't have to agree with each other. But put the dueling mouths to rest and walk away from each other.

Don't let me come up there!!!

Zombie,

You're freakin' me out! I just wrote a nice comment to you and it got shot to hell. When I signed back in......you blew it out. Nice going! You and those damn extension cords and generators! Your sucking the power out of everything! Now let me see if I can do this again before I read the blah, blah, blah you just wrote.

Ahem!!!!! Zombie,

I have only invited 3 people to be a friend since joining the Vine. You are # 3. Thank you for accepting.

GREAT! Now I can't remember the rest of the sh*t.

Anyway, thanks for showing some class. You're alright in my book. I don't agree with you at times, but you're alright.

Now! Who's in favor of getting rid of the Hummer?....[The behemoth SUV, not the "act"]

Show of hands please! [dkaz raises hers]

Zombie,

.Dkaz, now your mad at me?? I can't win........good night ladies.........

How can I get mad at you? You're my favorite Zombie. Plus you blew on my puff ball.

Good night. See you in the morning. Make sure you take your meds before coming on line. You're a spooky bastard when you don't. ;-)

Zombie,

I see your meds are kicking in real nicely. That's a good boy. Go lay down........[smiling]

Everybody else around here............[Shhhhhhh,don't wake him]

It is a bail out! The government might bail them out of trouble with a loan of our tax money!

Loans are made through banks, Bail outs are made by the Government. Who are they asking for the money?  Last time I looked Congress wasn't a bank, although they have been acting like one for the past few months!

Melinda - I don't know if you have paying attention to the news lately but the banks are NOT loaning money right now, to anyone.  Oil company's, ATT and money other large corporations that have good financial statements can't get a loan right now.  The only option is the government.

Not over it, I'm not sure where you are getting your information but Banks are still lending money, People are still buying cars and houses. The statement that Banks aren't lending to anyone is B.S.

I am the Finance Director at a car dealership.  I am getting my information first hand.

Banks are lending to the top credit scores only.  They are, in many cases, having to put money down when they haven't had to before.  Car loans are down from an 83% approval rate last Oct to a 62% approval rate this Oct and I'm sure Nov will be even worse.  We have gone to the farthest extreme on the pendulum.  We went from anybody and their dog gets a car to the Pope needs a co-signor to have a car.  If you don't believe me the proof is that I have plenty of free time to post on this vine.

I can't find the article about big oil having a hard time getting a loan to start new projects but I read it on MSNBC 2 days ago.  I do know that the large corporations like Att that usually get short term loans for day-to-day business and payroll needs have been getting the squeeze for a couple of months now.  That was all over the news.  I'm sorry that you missed it.

"Melinda - I don't know if you have paying attention to the news lately but the banks are NOT loaning money right now, to anyone."

So you just proved your self wrong, Someone with Really good credit can get a loan.  62% approval rate in Oct. Things might be really tight but credit is still available.

OOOhhh O.K. I stand corrected.  But I think everyone else besides you got my point.

Good! Glad you can admit it!  You were wrong so it is a moot point!

I wasn't going to waste my time pointing out the fact that I was being sarcastic but I feel like I must. 

I stand by earlier statement that is correct.  Banks are not lending money to ENOUGH people.  This is a widely reported fact on every major news station and newspaper.  If you want to split hairs over it that is you prerogative.

I took it more as mocking, but then again I have to consider what you do for a living.

Now that was funny! :)

Not over it, I'm glad you took that as the pun that I intended.

Partys over that's the first time I've ever seen anybody stutter while they were typing!

Not Over it don't feel bad, Scorpion is just a stinger... he can't can't think about things too hard.

If you are going to try and have a battle of wits, Make sure you are armed!

Are you really so blind you can't see you typed can't twice?  The stinger reference doesn't make much sense, SCORPION was a character in a Movie. So once again you show you  are ill equipped for a battle of wits. At least when you typed slow you did it right, except for my name.

It's Sparring, not sparing, and there you go again showing the world how smart you are! I better give up while you are ahead, I wouldn't want to be the cause of you actually getting something right!

Party,

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Courtesy of Forrest Gump.

dkaz

Name calling! I expected more out of you than that!

Scorpion,

Name calling! I expected more out of you than that

I'm only quoting.

But I will say, after reading your comments to not only Party but to "not over it", you are in the wrong. The banks are not loaning money, which is what they were suppose to do when the government gave it to them. They are buying other banks. I will give you the "Token-Borrower". The guy who has 50% to put down on what ever he wants to buy. But who has that? Who can save $100,000 to buy a $200,000 home in todays world?

I'll give you an example, using myself.

Two weeks ago, my stepson who is 35, with a good job, been there 5 years, took $10,000 down to a Chevy Dealer to buy a $30,000 car. He called us to see if we would co-sign for him. This guy bought his first car at the age of 18 with no co-signer and has done so ever since.

The salesman was really impressed with our credit rating because we own everything we have. We have no credit card debt, no mortgage, no car payment. We have credit cards with no less than $50,000 availability. Piece of cake, right? Wrong!

Even with the $10,000 down and our signature, the guy couldn't get the loan.

But I'll tell you what it did do. It brought my husbands credit rating down because the dealership tried 8 financial institutions to secure the loan and because of 8 inquiries, it went against his credit rating. I found it funny because I haven't worked in 18 years and I have better credit now than my husband. But I also found it sad that he was penalized for trying to help his son who shouldn't have needed it in the first place.

So learn from this, Scorpion. Never co-sign even if they have 75% down.

And also learn something else. You can have a discussion or a debate without trying to be a smart ass. There was no reason for you to comeback with the remarks you did to those two people. Choose your remarks wisely lest you end up looking like you have a smaller brain than Forrest Gump.

And never expect anymore out of me than what you deserve.

Enjoy your day, Scorpion.

dkaz

 I was testing not over it. The more intelligent a person is the longer it takes before they resort to childish behavior like name calling. Not over it never got angry. So I would say that not over it is of above average intellegence and may be worth listening to!

 Partys over jumped into the discussion angry and slid further down hill as it went on!

You jumped in at the same level or just below. That tells me you are more prone to an emotional response than one that is well thought out.

SCORPION  - 

Where did I get angry?  Frustrated with your ignorance perhaps but not angry.  I never called names or used bold or anything.  I even found humor in your joke.  I do get frustrated when people decide to inform me on what I do for a living 6 days a week for the past 10 years. 

I have seen the highs and the lows of car financing and I can tell you without any hesitation that the banks are not lending the money out that they were given by our government.  I will not argue the point because it is a simple fact.

Sorry if I offended you. 

I said you  never got angry ! In the third sentence, and showed you had a higher grasp of the banter! I was Impressed not offended! I would never try to second guess what you do for a living. I even stated I thought you were worth listening to!

Oh sorry I guess I mis-interpreted your post.

                         "Not over it never got angry"     your post 4.26

I might have stopped reading at that point.  I do sometimes get passionate about my opinions.  So it would not have surprised me to get angry but I have been trying to keep an open line of communication. 

Anyway it is always fun chatting and voicing differences of opinions which is why I think we are all here. 

It was fun! A good disagreement without anger is hard to come by Thanks!

Have a great day!

Thanks to you too and I'm sure we will have another healthy debate in the future.

Have a nice day!

Not over it,

See what happens when you deal with a bully? You end up apologizing for something he goaded you into which never happened.

Scorpion is an instigator. He enjoys being on the pulpit whether he's wrong or right. Let him stay there. That's his milieu. It's called being self-centered, selfish and mean spirited and the Vine is full of them. I better use my spell check lest he comes after me for not spelling correctly and I better proof-read so as not to appear to be stuttering.

And btw Scorpion, when I go into a thread, I vote for every comment. So don't think there are a lot of people who agree with you. One of those votes are from me. It's a habit I got into many moons ago. I feel if someone is going to stop and make a comment, they deserve a vote whether they are in the right or wrong. Or just plain uninformed.

dkaz

Party,

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Courtesy of Forrest Gump.

{"commentId":4283867,"threadId":"432978","contentId":"2170088","authorDomain":"dkaz"}

• 2

• !

#4.22 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 11:01 PM EST

SCORPION-617125

dkaz

Name calling! I expected more out of you than that!

Nah! No one called you a name, Scorpion....dkaz is quoting Forrest Gump.....

However... if you feel a word "defines" you?....Well, then you might feel insulted

...but it was you ...........that made the connection. 

gpvodka,

I can't believe my eyes. Iiiiiiiieeeeemmmm SHOCKED!! My favorite nemesis!

You woke up from your beauty sleep and came to my defense? To what do I owe this debt of gratitude for? And how much is the debt? Will you take something in trade?

On a serious note, and I hope Scorpion is seeing this, I just recently learned that the money the government gave the banks and Wall Street? Well, guess who's going to be getting their bonuses? I won't keep anyone in suspense. The CEO's!! That's right! You read it right.

Because they were already guaranteed their bonuses before they asked for the bailout, it [bonus] was grandfathered in.

God Bless the CEO's. What a mess we'd be in if we didn't have them.

[Btw, you can go back to sleep now....Oh! And thank you.]

gpnavonod

 So you are saying that she jumped into the middle of the tiff I was having with PartysOver, using a quote from Forrest Gump and that it was not directed at me?

Scorpion,

Let me jump in here before gpnavonod returns. I want to bring something to your attention.

Start at comment #4. You stated your opinion regarding the topic. No problem there.

4.1=Party gave their opinion, calmly.

4.2=Look at the amount of exclamation marks. That's a sign of raising one's voice. But it was still you opinion regarding the topic.

4.4=Party...again calm in her answer.

4.5=Not over it.... jumped in and stated his opinion calmly.

4.6=Your return comment began to be obnoxious with the "BS". That's swearing.

4.7=Not over it...Again, calm and rational.

4.8=You seemed to be elated that you were able to discredit Melinda. Again the sign of an obnoxious bully.

Let's skip to 4.14 for the sake of space.

4.14=Party made a typographical error.

4.15=Your answer had nothing to do regarding the topic. You got personal by bring up an error. You're showing your perfect and that anyone who makes any kind of error or does not agree with you is lower than you and you will slam them. That is not matching "wit for wit". That is being an obnoxious bully.

4.26=You say you were "testing" not-over-it. Why? Are you a teacher. And, I might add, you're still off topic. You seem to have a  slight attention deficit disorder.

As far as me "jumping in the middle of a tiff", Melinda jumped in. Not-Over-It jumped in. But you were able to brow beat them into submission or leaving the thread altogether. You couldn't do that with me so I guess you met your match, didn't you Sweetie? Some one called you on the carpet and exposed you for what you truly are. The quote was directed not to you but to your attitude.

Your fooling yourself. You are an angry young man.

If you can't take it Scorpion honey, don't dish it out.

Enjoy your day. I'm sure gp will be with you some time today. He tends to sleep late....[grinning]

Btw, I didn't hit spell check and I didn't proofread, so please excuse my ineptness. I know that bothers you.

I always thought Exclamation points were used for expression and caps WERE RAISING YOUR VOICE!

 The conversation was going along fine then Partysover sent this

 Scorpion is just a stinger... he can't can't think about things too hard.

Now I don't know about you or how you interpret things but I took that as an attempt to sling a mild insult! So if you are going to try and insult me, Don't give me any ammo to fire back at you, So I took advantage of the typing error to retort!

=You seemed to be elated that you were able to discredit Melinda.

 Just when Did I do that? I was responding to Not over it, not Melinda and if you read his next post you would see his response!

OOOhhh O.K. I stand corrected.  But I think everyone else besides you got my point.

Now as for me meeting my match or not being able to stay on topic.

Party,

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Courtesy of Forrest Gump.

What does that have to do with the topic? Plus if you wish to have a real debate then lets take it to my column!  I don't spell check or look for errors like that unless you are going to hold others to that standard! Then we shall see who's a match for who!

dkaz;

4.8=You seemed to be elated that you were able to discredit Melinda. Again the sign of an obnoxious bully.

Not sure what you are talking about SCORPION didn't say a word to or about me! As for SCORPION being a bully, seems to me like you are the one that keeps going after him!

Wait a minute.  I got left out somewhere.  What are we discussing again?  I can't remember.  Can't we all just get along?

Dkaz

 The debate that not over it and I were having originally was about his statement that banks were not lending to anybody right now and I disagreed, saying that that statement was (lets  me rephrase it to) overstated, and Partysover responded.

Not Over it don't feel bad, Scorpion is just a stinger... he can't can't think about things too hard. I know they aren't loaning too, same thing all over.

So I offer the following, The November Auto sales numbers! If Banks are not lending to anybody How can Fords sales be Higher this year than Last year.

November car sales: A win for Ford, a beating for GM

Posted Dec 3rd 2007 4:02PM by Douglas McIntyre
Filed under: Ford Motor (F), General Motors (GM), Toyota Motor Corp. (TM), Economic data

Most analysts thought that U.S. car sales would be tough, the economy and gas prices being what they are. But GM (NYSE: GM), which has been the poster child for the turnaround of the old Big Three, fell apart with sales off by 11% compared to last year. Its sales of cars and light trucks stood at 261,273 in November, down from 293,558 a year earlier. Unit sales of light trucks fell 15% to 156,196, while car sales fell 4.5% to 105,077. GM makes a lot of money on pick-ups and SUVs, so the news was particularly painful.

Toyota (NYSE: TM) did fine, with sales inching up 0.3%.

But all of that is just supporting-cast stuff for Ford (NYSE: F)'s numbers. The company has had 12 straight months of falling sales. That is hard to do even if the cars are being given away.

According to MarketWatch "Ford posted sales of 182,096 cars and light trucks, up from 180,910 a year ago, thanks in part to strong demand for Ford's crossover lineup." The company's new crossovers did unusually well.

What happened at Ford? It may be that its sales have bottomed, but that may not be because it is building substantially better cars. Many well-known brands have a core buyer base, people who keep coming back no matter what. It happens with cigarettes and laundry soap. New, and perhaps better, brands come along, but some of the traditional buyers can't be displaced.

Ford has 15% of the domestic car market. It may have a chance to stay there because of consumer habits and some new cars. But it can't afford its piece of the pie to get any smaller.

SCORPION -  I read what you posted and did some research on my own.  According to every article I read Including the Wall Street Journal.  November US auto sales were down 37%.  The worst in 26 years.  Toyota down 34%.  Honda down 32%.  Nissan down 42%.  Gm down 41%.  Chysler down 47%.  Ford down 31%.

I will try to add the links but sometimes it doesn't seem to work:

You are right! I'm wrong the story was old! I did not see the date until I went back to double check. I'm gonna get beat up over that!

 Still Ford posted a better month than the rest, and it looks like The bridge loan is going to pass! But please give me the links I would still love to read them!

not over it;

I believe these numbers are more accurate. Thanks for pointing out my mistake!

November Auto Sales Crater

Shortly after GM issued its monthly sales report, GM sales analyst Mike DiGiovanni told investors that the industry cannot survive without government intervention

Dec 2, 2008

-By Anthony Crupi

There was more grim news out of Detroit Tuesday as Ford Motor Co., General Motors and Chrysler reported dizzying declines in November sales.

As the leaders of the Big Three descended on Washington to make their case for a $25 billion federal bailout, Ford announced that November sales were down 30.6 percent, while GM absorbed a 41.3 percent drop.

Last month, Ford moved 123,222 vehicles, down from 177,485 in the year-ago period. GM suffered an even greater reversal, shifting 153,404 cars and trucks, versus 261,273 in November 2007.

Shortly after GM issued its monthly sales report, GM sales analyst Mike DiGiovanni told investors that the industry cannot survive without government intervention. “We’re in a much more severe situation than the rest of the economy, and it’s an unsustainable position for all manufacturers,” DiGiovanni said. “We cannot continue to operate at these levels or the entire industry’s going to go down.”

Privately-held Chrysler took the worst hit last month, as sales plummeted 47.1 percent to 85,260 vehicles, down from 161,088.

In a statement released Tuesday, Chrysler vice chairman and president Jim Press said that the company would bolster its ad spend in order to try and maintain its market share. “Our goal is to ... keep a strong advertising and incentive presence in the marketplace,” Press said. (In the first half of 2008, Chrysler spent $406 million in measured media, down 30.5 percent from $584 million in the year-ago period, per TNS Media Research.)

Press also noted that withering consumer confidence and a scarcity of credit made year-over-year sales comparisons “irrelevant.”

As part of its restructuring plan, Chrysler chairman and CEO Bob Nardelli petitioned Congress for a $7 billion bridge loan payable by Dec. 31, saying that without the emergency infusion of cash, the company would not be able to “ensure [future] operations.”

GM has requested $4 billion loan to keep it solvent through January 2009, and is asking for as much as $18 billion. Ford is looking for total loan package of $9 billion.

Melinda,

In regards to comment 4.8

I'm sorry. My mistake. Scorpion was quoting what "not over it"  said to you. I saw your name and made an error.

Please except my apology.

Zombie,

you seem alittle testy......I'll tread lightly today..

Don't tread lightly. You are entitled to your opinion like everyone else. But remain ladies and gentlemen when doing so.

I see you and Partys Over had a nice little dance at the beginning of this article.

This is why I don't go into political and religious articles.

Because everyone is right and no one is wrong.

Except that the fact is everyone is right but yet everyone is wrong.

Get me out of here. I'm out of my milieu. I need to be checking out the article about the naughtiest sex position or what happens to your brain when you have an orgasm. Better yet, how do you do the perfect 69.

You know, the more interesting things in life. The ones that make you smile instead of these type of articles that spew hatred.

This is off of my tracker.

Sorry I can't seem to get the links to post on here for some reason.  Just google or search on MSN or whatever your fancy.  All the articles are there. 

No matter the article you read,  the numbers are dismal at best.  Even though Ford might not be losing as much, the fact of the matter is the overall new car sales are down and will likely stay down for awhile. 

The "pie" is shrinking therefore all of the players are getting a smaller portion of that pie.  ALL auto makers need to tighten the belt and hunker down for a battle that not all will survive in their currrent form.  Tough choices need to be made by GM and Chrysler (and in my opinion, soon Ford). 

I believe it is important to keep these companies around.  If they can get lean and make it through the next year they will come out the other side of this strong and profitable.  I think it is important for our country.......just my opinion.

Zombie,

....I pay $40K for a ford truck, now they are giving them away......that tells me that I was being ripped off everytime....they did it to themselves...Sorry

When have you never been ripped off when you purchase anything?

Do you know the mark up on furniture is 200%? What about the food you purchase? The gasoline. Why 5 bucks a gallon last month and 1.60 now? Clothing! Have you gone to an outlet store? You're in Florida. You know about Bealls. Go to the retail store and pick out 1 shirt. 35 to 40 bucks. Go to the outlet store. You'll find the same damn shirt for 9.99. And the bastards are STILL making a profit.

You should be used to being ripped off by now. How old are you? Everyone on this thread has been getting ripped off since the day they were born.

So you tell me. How do you stop it. You can't. You deal with it the best way you know how. And that's not by attacking people and calling them names.

You're pretty fiesty for someone who gets zapped every now and then. Go take your pills. I'll catch you in the orgasm article where you can get some relief.

not over it,

You are as cute as a bug in a rug. I'd like to bring you home and sit you up on my dresser. Stay sweet. Stay serene.

furniture 200% markupyou mean I over paid for my concrete block and plywood coffee table....I demand a refund.............

Zombie.....What am I going to do with you?..............[smiling]

I have an 81 year old aunt who has never had a credit card in her life. She paid cash for her house in 1962. Every vehicle was paid for with cash. I took her down about 10 years ago to buy a new car. She paid $17,000.00 [check] for it.

Do you know she can not get a credit card because there is no established credit on her records?

I talked her into getting one about 7 years ago for emergency purposes. I told her she didn't have to use it, just have it. She filled out the application and they turned her down.

Yep! Our system sucks.

Two years ago a guy I know was bragging about buying a house and I told him he'd never get a mortgage. He'd been at his job 3 years, had no downpayment and was paid next to nothing.

Imagine my surprise when he called me and told me he was approved for $150,000. The bank gave him a piggyback loan so that he could afford the house for the first 5 years and after that his payments were subject to change. Which, like you said will end up being triple what they are now.

Now what kind of crap was that?

Hey Party,

I see you're having a problem with getting some of the people to understand the difference between a Bailout and a Loan.

Here, I'll make it simple for them.

Bailout=Billions of dollars the government gives to Banks & Wall Street Investors. Also any other white collar corporation who have no blue collar working for them. And they don't have to pay it back. Examples would be Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, CitiBank, Wacovia....etc

Loan=Billions of dollars the government gives to any Corporation which employs blue collar workers who are the backbone of America. The Corporation must scale down it's "Chiefs" and unneccessary "Indians" and the Billions must be paid back with interest within a set period of time.

These auto companies have to be helped. But they also need to be restructured.

I'd be more concerned about giving the money to banks and investors than the auto industries.

The money has been given to the banks to help stimulate the economy. Why isn't it working? Oh! That's right! I forgot. Citibank used its money to buy more banks. How silly of me not to think that was a good idea.

Bailout

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

A bailout, in economics and finance, is an injection of liquidity given to an insolvent or nearly insolvent entity, such as a corporation or a bank, in order for it to meet its short-term obligations. Often bailouts are by governments, or by consortia of investors who demand control over the entity as the price for injecting funds.

Often a bailout is in response to a short-term cash flow crunch, where an entity with illiquid, but sufficient assets, is given funds to "tide it over" until short term problems are resolved.

The bailing out of a corporation by government is controversial because bankruptcy can be seen as being caused by the failure to satisfy consumer demand; the bailing out is thus an instance of government intervention on the market overruling the will of consumers. The bailout also chooses winners and losers. For example, during the subprime mortgage crisis, some companies were allowed to fail while other companies were bailed out.

Government bailouts of corporations are usually reserved for cases when a corporation is considered "too big to fail" — justified by the argument that failure of certain corporations would cause unacceptable short-term economic repercussions throughout the economy.^[1]

A financial bailout may also describe an external intervention into the economic affairs of a nation, industry, corporation or citizen, typically for the purpose of enhancing their financial circumstances for public benefit. Bailouts have occurred globally and with some frequency since the early 20th century. In general, the needs of the entity/entities bailed out are subordinate to the needs of the state. Further, a bailout presents the challenge of moral hazard, by rewarding excessive risk-taking.

Sounds like what the auto makers are asking for to me!

Scorpion,

Always remember this about Wikipedia;

"Wikipedia is written collaboratively by volunteers from all around the world; anyone can edit it."

I also noticed they're asking for "donations". Think maybe one day your tax dollars will help "bail" them out?

Party,

It's useless to butt heads with people who can't see the forest for the trees. They would sooner see what's left of the true middle class disappear than to help sustain it.

The Bankers and Investment Companies who are made up of Millionaires will be your next middle class.

Let the American auto companies fall. Let thousands of people be without decent paying jobs and benefits. Let more people lose their homes. Because along with that will be self-worth, self-pride and your physical and mental illness from stress will rise faster than what it is now. But who cares, right? Hey! As long as I got mine, screw my fellowman. Let him fend for himself. He shoudn't have bought a house for his family. For that matter, he shouldn't have had a family. How dare he!

And Scorpion, who's tax dollars are going to pay for them? If you're working....yours. 

Party,

"That reminds me of a guy standing on the beach with an inner tube around his waist looking at a coming tsunami, and the other guy standing on the 100 story building yelling down... It'll be alright."

What a great analogy! Yep! Things will be fine. No problems ahead......Too funny!

dkaz

 I'm a little confused I can't tell if you are for or against The bail out of the auto makers.

from your retort above, I want the middle class to disappear  by not letting them get the loan they need, then I want to screw everyone else that can't fend for them selves. Then you want to give me a hard time because my taxes are going to pay for it.

 I am not against anyone owning a house or having a family, but if you buy a house you should pay for it! Personal responsibility that's a phrase People should learn.

SCORPIAN  --  The auto makers are asking for a loan with interest not a bail-out.

not over it;

  OK i'll call it a loan if you will learn to use my CORRECT NAME!.  And just for the record, I am all for them getting what ever help they need! I just don't like jobs being lost just so they can get a "loan". There has to be a better way!

Okey dokey. SCORPION-617125.

Have a nice day! :)

Scorpion, In regards to you comment # 6.11.

Please refer to my comment # 4.22

B Cushing  --  Are you more in favor of losing 30,000 jobs or 2.5 million?  Are you aware of the difference?