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Ron Maccari, an assembly worker for General Motors for nearly 30 years, has been angry lately over the negative comments he’s heard on TV and read on the Internet about his chosen career.
For weeks, the Big Three U.S. automakers have been on a campaign for a federal bailout, leaving the manufacturing industry as a target of public vitriol.
Lawmakers, economists and business executives have joined in the attack.
Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., called the U.S.-based auto industry a “dinosaur.” An analysis in The Wall Street Journal titled “Just Say No to Detroit” by economist David Yermack suggested: “We would do better to set this money on fire rather than using it to keep these dying firms on life support.” Media mogul Ted Turner, in an interview with NBC's Tom Brokaw, questioned why the country was still trying to “keep alive a smokestack industry of the past.”
Maccari, who works at the Newport, Del., plant that makes GM's Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice, thinks blue-collar work is getting a bum rap.
“If someone is producing something in this country, is making money and has a semi-decent house, we thumb our nose at them,” he said. “I read what they’re saying on blogs: ‘Let the auto industry die.’”
Maccari sees a growing movement in the United States to “disregard manufacturing, to eliminate it.”
Maccari’s not alone in his feelings.
“What killed Detroit was Washington, the government of the United States, politicians, journalists and muckrakers who have long harbored a deep animus against the manufacturing class that ran the smokestack industries that won World War II," conservative pundit Pat Buchanan said in a recent article published on WorldNetDaily.com. (Buchanan is a msnbc political analyst.)
Today only about 13 million people work in the manufacturing sector, down from nearly 18 million 10 years ago, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Despite the decline in jobs, there are expected shortages of skilled production workers in a host of industries. These include everything from aerospace to medical manufacturing to products needed for infrastructure improvements and green industries favored by President-elect Barack Obama, says Patricia Lee, a spokeswoman with the Fabricators & Manufacturers Association, a trade group.
A recent survey by the group found that the most serious concern about the sector, behind the cost of raw materials, was availability of skilled labor.
But companies have no plans to hire significantly in the sector, at least for a while.
PricewaterhouseCoopers’ manufacturing barometer, which reports on hiring and business in domestic manufacturing, found that only 12 percent of manufacturing executives surveyed in the third quarter were planning to expand their work force over the next 12 months; 40 percent were planning cuts.
Longer term the outlook is less grim. “Manufacturing is not dead,” says Barry Mishtal, industrial manufacturing sector leader for PricewaterhouseCoopers. “It has a great future in the U.S., but now is a difficult time.”
He believes that in years to come U.S. manufacturers will need workers with higher skill levels, unlike the lower-level skills that were needed for many jobs that went overseas.
The FMA’s Lee says that training should include everything from trade school courses in high school to college engineering and science degrees.
But since such jobs are still undervalued by so many Americans, she says, not enough people are interested in the training needed for these jobs.
“It’s an image problem,” said Craig Giffi, chairman of the Global Manufacturing Industry practice for Deloitte, referring to manufacturing work. “It’s perceived as dirty and grimy and hard labor. Manufacturers understand they have an image problem.”
Giffi believes most people don’t understand that manufacturing today generally is a high-tech industry done in facilities with clean floors.
Plus the image of manufacturing jobs has declined as white-collar jobs have gained ascendancy.
“The idea is you go out, develop yourself, educate yourself and basically become a white-collar worker,” explained Mark Clark, associate professor at the Kogod School of Business at American University.
Manufacturing sector jobs have become stigmatized, he argues, as a result of the democratization of education. “We want to send our kids to college, to get computer skills," he says. "That doesn’t seem to coincide with manufacturing.”
But that assessment is unfair, he noted, and blue-collar jobs are getting the short end of the stick. “If we’re too good for manufacturing, then pretty soon everyone is too good to do manufacturing, and that will create difficulties," he says.
Another issue plaguing manufacturing, and the auto industry in particular, is the belief by many that unions aren’t necessary anymore and that they may have contributed to the problems automakers are facing now.
“Ask any consumer not remotely related to manufacturing, and the first thing they talk about is the union,” says Clint Adamkavicius, senior industry analyst for consulting firm Frost & Sullivan. Many believe unions have contributed to the high cost of products like cars and few want to bailout a work force they believe is making more money than they think they should.
Most statistics show that unionized workers, especially in manufacturing, tend to make more than their non-union counterparts.
The high wages enjoyed by unionized manufacturing workers, including the United Auto Workers, gave many American workers a path into the middle class they would not have had otherwise, says Gary Chaison, professor of industrial relations at Clark University’s Graduate School of Management.
He says the shortage of manufacturing workers goes beyond perception issues.
“Those shortages won’t be filled unless these jobs are high-paying, provide good employee benefits and give assumptions of continued employment,” he says.
If the U.S. auto industry were to die off because people think workers make too much or they just don’t like the industrial nature of the business, he said, “then maybe we’re saying the United States cannot be a manufacturing country.”
GM assembly worker Maccari hopes that’s not the conclusion Congress or his fellow citizens come to.
He’s eligible to retire in a little over a year and is praying that his longtime employer has a future, not just for himself but for the workers and the for an industry he’s spent his whole life in.
“When you worked with your hands it used to be considered fairly important, an honorable occupation,” he says. “I think it still is.”
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{"commentId":4351486,"authorDomain":"gjfurrer"}
No matter how much money is given to the auto-industry what good is it going to do when no one is buying. Their sole business is selling cars and with unemployment at 6.7% and as a retiree unless someone buys me a car I sure don't plan on buying one in the next year or two. By that time that 15 billion dollar handout will be gone and they'll be back asking for more. The steel industry when under, the air-lines have gone under, the railroads have gone under but we still managed to survive. Personally I've had American cars and a Honda, and Toyota, that's where my new car would come from
{"commentId":4351486,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"gjfurrer"}
#2 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 9:38 PM EST{"commentId":4351965,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
Nice loyalty. Look at what America has given you and piss all over that by buying foreign crap.
{"commentId":4351965,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4352532,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
Aren't most Hondas that are sold in America, also made in America, and by American auto workers?
{"commentId":4352532,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4352625,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
No, only the ones made by the Shelby lovers in Alabama. Buy whatever makes you feel like a big man, don't worry about anyone else.
{"commentId":4352625,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
{"commentId":4352786,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
Are you forgetting the four Honda factories in Ohio? Last I checked Ohio was still in the U.S., and the workers were still Americans.
{"commentId":4352786,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4352909,"authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
I know there are Honda plants in Ohio, one not far from the city I live in.
{"commentId":4352909,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4353052,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
I'm just saying it's short-sighted to blame the US public for buying a foreign brand car, especially when it's probably made in the US by US workers. The buyers want what everybody wants, a well made, attractive, safe, comfortable, reliable and gas-economical vehicle. Whoever delivers that best, and at the best price gets the business. and should.
{"commentId":4353052,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4353222,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
But when was the last time you looked at an American car? The American car companies are MAKING these type of cars but JD Powers told you 10 years ago that Honda's were better and that was all you needed. Companies approve and meet customer's demands but when the public is too IGNORANT to investigate all the products then why should they bother? I have always drove American cars, on roads built and paid for by Americans.
{"commentId":4353222,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
{"commentId":4354623,"authorDomain":"barbsnetaddress"}
It's where the profits go you guys. Honda has a large presence in OH, but the profits go back to Japan. We need American cars. People need to take a long hard look at pruchasing an American car the next time they are in the market for a new car.
{"commentId":4354623,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"barbsnetaddress"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4355253,"authorDomain":"timcheckley"}
How many White collar jobs can we have without blue collar jobs? Manufacturing built America, we need to keep manufacturing strong to keep America strong.
{"commentId":4355253,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"timcheckley"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4355527,"authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
Dubbya R: You can't talk like that here. The only jobs that "count" are related to the Big 3 ;-) The people working at these plants aren't Americans, because the plants they work in make the Big 3 and UAW look like buffoons. You cannot have more automation, fewer workers, and pay anything less than what it takes to accomplish a comfortable middle class family existence on one income. Business isn't about maximizing profits! That would make, er..., sense from a business standpoint and keep shareholders happy.
The fact that so many in this nation are ticked with Richard Shelby tells me he is doing what he was elected by us to do. Look out for AL, help bring in jobs that pay decent to help keep our state taxes low, etc. I know, imagine the nerve of a politician doing the job he was elected to do. Up until a couple of months ago, AL was not feeling the "bad economy" I have been hearing about for the last couple of years a bit. Foreclosures have not been rampant, our state taxes are not being raised, and unemployment is lower than the national average. Actually, the national average now is still well below the level in the very late 70's, early 80's, and early 90's.
{"commentId":4355527,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4356934,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
Nice loyalty. Look at what America has given you and piss all over that by buying foreign crap.
It's where the profits go you guys. Honda has a large presence in OH, but the profits go back to Japan. We need American cars. People need to take a long hard look at pruchasing an American car the next time they are in the market for a new car.
#2.8 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 3:46 AM HST
Guess you did not read the Made In label on your Obese 3 taco wagon. Did we accept Mexico and Canada as the 51st and 52nd States yet.
I do really think that (these are States of the US): Kentucky, Alabama, Tennesse, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Virginia, Georgia, Indiana (2008), etc. that either are assembling cars or manufacturing parts in the USA employing American Citizens in the USA for their ("Foreign") Real American Auto Industry (Toyota USA, Honda USA, Nissan USA, Hyundai USA). This is inspite of the large costs associated with investing in the US and using the sales profits to reinvest in the US Affiliates with no profits going to Japan nor Korea. Learned in Business School in the US.
Now I can call you STUPID not ignorant since you have been told this in other posts.
The profits from the Ohio Honda went to the building of the 2008 Indiana Honda Plant. TARD.
{"commentId":4356934,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4357239,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
I have always drove American cars, on roads built and paid for by Americans.
I used to but not anymore. I bought and paid top dollar for my tricked out Ford Ranger and for the first 11,700 miles loved it, that is until the transmission died. Lost the use of it for a week while it got rebuilt. Loved it more until 30,000 miles and the transmission died again. That was ok the extended warranty I bought covered it. Loved it more until 48,000 miles and the transmission died again and the dealer that sold me the warranty refused to pay up on it (They sold me a dealer warranty rather than the Ford factory warranty I thought I was getting).
I paid $1,200 bucks and went on and sued the dealer for not paying up. At 60,000 miles the transmission went out again and I got pissed. Started looking for the answers as the problem was always the 5th gear burning out (I drove a lot on the highways in California). It turned out that the Toyo-Ginko Japanese transmission in my American truck (Ford had recently quit buying the really good Borg-Warner transmissions) had a design problem. I sued Ford and the dealer to recoup my losses.
Well the transmission went out again at 90,000 miles and this time I happened to take it to a Ford dealer (I always paid the extra money to take it to a dealer) where the service manager, unknown to me, went to my church. He passed me a document from Ford telling the service departments to go into the transmission and drill a new set of holes through the inner casing to provide oil to the fifth gear bearing that had a DESIGN PROBLEM. I took this document to my lawyer and he sent it to Ford and they settled the next week and the dealer as well.
This was the last time that I bought an American vehicle.
My 1995 Toyota Tacoma has over 180,000 miles on it with only one breakdown, for an alternator. My 2005 Toyota Tacoma has 60,000 trouble free miles on it. If the dealer and Ford had at least honored their warranties and fixed the problem it would have been fine, but no I had to sue them.
Get your act together, make quality cars, and you will succeed. Otherwise you will die.
{"commentId":4357239,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4357376,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
debmo-571638But when was the last time you looked at an American car? The American car companies are MAKING these type of cars but JD Powers told you 10 years ago that Honda's were better and that was all you needed. Companies approve and meet customer's demands but when the public is too IGNORANT to investigate all the products then why should they bother? I have always drove American cars, on roads built and paid for by Americans.
You drive a Mexican or Canadian car. Look at your door panel..."Made In". If Obese 3 after 1994 NAFTA, CAFTA, AFTA then Mexican or Canadian with built in "Planned Obsolence".
Tim-479090How many White collar jobs can we have without blue collar jobs? Manufacturing built America, we need to keep manufacturing strong to keep America strong.
I agree 100% and Mexico, Canada, and China ARE NOT America.
In order to do that the Obese 3 would have to ask Congress to recind 1994 NAFTA, CAFTA, AFTA that the Obese 3 paid for thru Lobbists. And tell the WTO to go to hades.
{"commentId":4357376,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4357392,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
debmo 2.7-
But when was the last time you looked at an American car?
Exactly one year ago, when I went shopping for one. I was replacing a 15 Y/O Civic, still running strong, still getting 33+ mpg on the Highway, never once had a more than a minor mechanical problem. But I needed something bigger. I looked first at America's big three, but the prices were higher, the gas mileage was lower, the safety ratings were poorer, and frankly when I sat in some I felt like I was sitting in a large Yugo....cheap.
There are some very well made American brand autos, and some really poor foreign branded ones. Making an expensive decision based on anything other than the 'best bang for the buck'.....is being unwise. It's misleading protectionism, not patriotism, when the union yells 'buy american', and doesn't mention that US built foreign brands are American built and employ American white and bluecoller workers, it's just propaganda, meant to sway your emotions and not your reason.
What both the UAW and US auto industry management should be looking at, is why a foreign manufacturer can come into the US, build factories here, employ US citizens, and out compete the US manufacturers.....on their own turf!
Reputation does play a part too. I've had some crappily built American cars in my family. It makes me, and anybody with any sense, think twice about what they are buying. When you are spending a sizable chunk of your income on a vehicle, and you have a bad experience you don't trust that manufacturer as easily, and why should you?
Let's see both management and union wages/salaries tied to the profitability of the company.
{"commentId":4357392,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4358507,"authorDomain":"str1249"}
Yes, most Hondas that are sold in US are made in US. Then the profits go back to Japan! When the auto industry turns down just a little more, which factories will Toyota and Honda close first? The ones in Japan? Think again!
{"commentId":4358507,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"str1249"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":4359653,"authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
Great point Mike!
{"commentId":4359653,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4364501,"authorDomain":"nkorb1"}
Some of the profits go back to Japan, but American workers work in those factories. And they produce a car that doesn't use as much gasoline, and their cars hold up better. AND, better than all of that...they aren't looking for a handout.
{"commentId":4364501,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"nkorb1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4365301,"authorDomain":"Rubcanela"}
{"commentId":4367448,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
Mike @ #2.15-
When the auto industry turns down just a little more, which factories will Toyota and Honda close first? The ones in Japan?
Probably, yes. Because the cost of shipping cars overseas adds so much to the final sales price.
But it really all depends on where they are making the most profit in both sales and manufacturing.
{"commentId":4367448,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4351743,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4351958,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
Party-this is such a sad state we are in. The people who actually make something are demonized and the paper-pushers and keyboard thumpers are lifted up on pedestals. I hope and pray that the government will do the right thing because this country CANNOT become a purely consumer base. We have to have some pride and that pride comes from building something from the ground up. People have lost that, the getting your hands dirty, sweating and the exhilartion when the item is finished. Too many pansies who don't want to get their oxfords and ties dirty. When the hard times come, it will be the ones who know how build something who will survive. The keyboard punchers will come to the builders for help and even though it will leave a bad taste we will save these pansies.
{"commentId":4351958,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
- 2 votes
#4 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 10:35 PM EST{"commentId":4357375,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
The people who actually make something are demonized and the paper-pushers and keyboard thumpers are lifted up on pedestals.
No one is demonizing the workers. The same American workers build Honda's Toyota's Merceedes, and Hundai's here in the U.S. with the same quality levels as are evident in their home countries. The issue is that the factories that the big 3 have built are not productive in comparison. This is at least partly the union's fault by not allowing a higher level of automation in the production line. There is another problem, that originates in management, which is to no design to the highest quality level possible. This results in problems in the hands of the customers, leading to low quality assessments of the vehicles. Management does not want to spend the money to fix the problems to maximize short term profit and the workers get a bad rap for building crappy cars.
The solution is easy.
Design and build cars to the highest quality levels possible.
Stand behind them with a good warranty.
Automate production to improve productivity.
Simple formula, successful solution.
{"commentId":4357375,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4357562,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
space guy I agree. But you must also include Tim-479090 comment. NO outsourcing. American car = American car. NO Mexican or Canadian Parts or preassembled cars shipped to the US to be put together with Chinese nuts, bolts and fastners (like what GM, Ford, Chysler currently do).
{"commentId":4357562,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4365052,"authorDomain":"icstars-1"}
david, there are American sources for these parts? I grew up where the steel mills closed in Chicago. Gone.
{"commentId":4365052,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"icstars-1"}
{"commentId":4352459,"authorDomain":"h-steve"}
People who know how to fix things will always have work. Andy Rooney said that years ago and I find it to be true. I have a white collar mind and a blue collar heart, Ive seen guys dressed in 3 piece suits on 90+ dg days and thought "man Im glad Im not that guy".They have probably looked at my sweating, greasy self and thought the same. In my field of Building Maintenance you get the best of both worlds, high technology and highly complex machines to work on, and I figure I save myself thousands a year because I never have to call anybody to fix things (except major car repairs). It is tough to find younger men interested in my line of work, and when they are they go the trades route and specialize, nobody want to be a "general practitioner" anymore, there is more money in specializing. Learn how to fix as well as assemble and you will always have work.
{"commentId":4352459,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"h-steve"}
- 1 vote
#5 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 11:32 PM EST{"commentId":4352610,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
Agreed. My husband is a farmer and he can fix anything. He hates it but we never call repairmen because he can fix any appliance in the house. He can plant seeds, fertilize and provide not only for our family but many American families. He has built a herd of Angus cattle that is very popular and we put 800 head of cattle into the market every year. He is also a skilled trades electrician at a Chrysler plant. This man can do anything he wants to because he has done more things than these whiners crying about helping the auto industry. None of these people have ever changed their own oil or changed an air filter in their own cars and they know more about the auto industry than anyone else. Like I said, it's a sad state we are in.
{"commentId":4352610,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4357115,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
Why are you changing your previous posts. First he is a Skilled UAW Electrician that can read and reset computers and robotics at Chrysler, now he is a farmer. Like I said before you need to write his resume so that when Chrysler folds he can submit the resume you wrote.
Agreed. My husband is a farmer and he can fix anything. He hates it but we never call repairmen because he can fix any appliance in the house. He can plant seeds, fertilize and provide not only for our family but many American families. He has built a herd of Angus cattle that is very popular and we put 800 head of cattle into the market every year. He is also a skilled trades electrician at a Chrysler plant. This man can do anything he wants to because he has done more things than these whiners crying about helping the auto industry. None of these people have ever changed their own oil or changed an air filter in their own cars and they know more about the auto industry than anyone else. Like I said, it's a sad state we are in.
{"commentId":4357115,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4352525,"authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
A lot of the comments on this article demonstrate how to run a failed industry. Whenever things go wrong with the auto industry, it seems like both management and unions act like everything the industry has done has been perfectly correct and all their problems come from outside forces. Nobody ever asks if maybe concentrating on SUVs when any reasonable person knew oil prices were going to trend up in the long term was a bad idea. It takes a crisis to make GM consider scrapping the underperforming brands and concentrating on the ones that sell well. Ultimately, mismanagement at the top has been screwing the industry over, not the forces of "pansyism."
{"commentId":4352525,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
#6 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 11:41 PM EST{"commentId":4352553,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
The government offering a complete tax write-off of vehicles over 6000 lbs for small business owners was not a problem? People wanted SUV's so that is what was built. But I have heard both management and workers say there have been mistakes and they have been working to fix them. It is a case of pansy asses, among government and American people.
{"commentId":4352553,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
{"commentId":4357745,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
The government offering a complete tax write-off of vehicles over 6000 lbs for small business owners was not a problem?
This was sponsored by the Congressional Representatives from Michigan. And added as a "rider" to another appropriation.
People wanted SUV's so that is what was built.
And yes, they are called hybrid 4 Runners and hybrid Landcruisers.
But I have heard both management and workers say there have been mistakes and they have been working to fix them.
So the people that caused the mistakes know how to fix them.
It is a case of pansy asses, among government and American people.
We do not all know how to Hablo Espanol since that is where the Obese 3 are located at (Mexico). So I guess they do not understand American people.
{"commentId":4357745,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4364712,"authorDomain":"ebookout"}
The auto makers built SUV's and trucks because they have the highest profit margin.
{"commentId":4364712,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ebookout"}
{"commentId":4364830,"authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
ebookout - They built them because people were buying them. Have you looked around on the roads. There are million of trucks and SUV's out there and everyone of those people BOUGHT them....because they wanted them!
{"commentId":4364830,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4352589,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
They are alive and ticking and Congress, President Elect Obama and President Bush have turned their back on them.
Look at the latest surveys of automobile quality and preferred vehicles. There is not ONE car by any of the big three automakers in those surveys. Why is this? It used to be quality is job one, now it is job one is preserving my job.
The big three have not kept pace in the global market with their quality and style. Either fix it or die, it is really that simple. I don't blame the workers. The same workers in the south put out quality cars on automated production lines....
Wait, wasn't it the union that fought tooth and nail over automation in the American factories? Hmmm wonder if that dosent have something to do with the problem?
Fix your problems or die.
{"commentId":4352589,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 4 votes
#7 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 11:48 PM EST{"commentId":4354670,"authorDomain":"barbsnetaddress"}
Get a clue space baby. American cars are beating out the competition in quality. Automation is the name of the game and has been for quite some time.
{"commentId":4354670,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"barbsnetaddress"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4354732,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4355978,"authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
The Big 3 can't keep pace with the Global market because they are taxed on their exports at 28%, yet USA only taxes imports at 2%.
This something that in no ways speaks to fair trade and needs to be addressed. Hey Party, something we agree on :-)
{"commentId":4355978,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4356088,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4356374,"authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
Party: From our first conversation a couple of weeks ago I thought I had you pegged. Since then I have seen you around the vine, and think we probably have more in common that we disagree about :-)
{"commentId":4356374,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4356446,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4357950,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
The Big 3 can't keep pace with the Global market because they are taxed on their exports at 28%, yet USA only taxes imports at 2%.
Because Party doesn't know the facts about how the Obese 3 paid lobbists to pressure the Politicians to have the DOT change the Safety Standards to prevent a foreign car invasion. This BACKFIRED because now the Obese 3 cannot bring in their own cars like GM Opel, Ford AG (65 mpg) and state of the art E100 and Flex Fuel Vehicles.
Addtionally, the Foreign Countries tax the crap out of cars that: require waivers to the International TUV Safety Standards, safer by survivability by category. Or cannot meet the International Greens Party fuel economy Standards
This something that in no ways speaks to fair trade and needs to be addressed. Hey Party, something we agree on :-)
Hope that you are not agreeing to be STUPID. Since you have been told you cannot now claim ignorance.
I got an idea lets shutdown under BRAC, all the US Military in Alabama. eg Redstone Arsenal, Fort Rucker.
Oh, and since you don't like foreigners, at Montgomery Alabama, shutdown the Hyundai Plant.
{"commentId":4357950,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4358058,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4358342,"authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
Uhhh....david...I have no problem with the way things are in AL....I am rather proud! See my other posts! My comments in the #7 thread were related to a rather "heated" arguement related to the auto "bailout" vs bankruptcy thread a couple weeks ago, which you would not have known, but I'm sure Party did, which is why I addressed them to Party.
{"commentId":4358342,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4352693,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
I wonder how the average teachers salary compares to the average autoworkers salary.
Now, who's more important to the future of our country?
Our values are screwed up. But that's not news.
{"commentId":4352693,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 1 vote
#8 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 12:00 AM EST{"commentId":4352760,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
They don't. I am training to be a teacher when my non-union job left the state to Tennessee so illegals could do it cheaper. I can't wait to finish my degree so I can join the teacher's UNION!! The pay discrepancy is not the UAW's fault but a lack of respect for what teachers are and what they do.
{"commentId":4352760,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
{"commentId":4352817,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
That's the same teachers union that demands the gym coaches should be paid the same as the math and science teachers?
{"commentId":4352817,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4353195,"authorDomain":"debmark"}
And the gym teacher is below the other teachers? I am studying to be a Science teacher but I don't feel I am better than the gym teacher. A child who is physically active is normally healthier and happier. The lack of everyday gym class is a travesty and I believe is one of the issues with classroom management.
That's what happens with solidarity, I am not going to judge your wage by your job because each employee contributes to the whole organization. A big problem in this country is everyone is counting what is in other's wallet and getting pissed when it's more than what is in their's. The gym teachers are going through the same education classes as I am and will spend the same two years in theory as I will. I know, there are physical education majors in my classes.
{"commentId":4353195,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"debmark"}
{"commentId":4357044,"authorDomain":"irishrky"}
Interesting how, you mentioned that the skilled autoworkers make more that teachers!! I have been a teacher for 9 years and still only make $49k. Seems that the average senior auto worker who is skilled makes what $30-$70 hour.
Seems that with training anyone can help the technical robots out to put the part on RIGHT way!!!
Your Unions have raped the economy and the consumer enough with paying people out of work (4 years) and now giving them 100K buy out. Get with the real world and if you don't work you don't get paid but 225 wk.
Your golden piggy bank has come to and end!!! Welcome to the real world UAW workers of the BIG 3.
Enough is enough!!!!
{"commentId":4357044,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"irishrky"}
{"commentId":4364793,"authorDomain":"minerhouse"}
Let me be clear... no autoworker makes $70/hour!
That is another huge misperception. The $70 figure that keeps popping up includes all the legacy costs from all retiree’s health and pension benefits --- which incidentally, will be the UAW's responsibility in 2010 (under the 2007 contract)
{"commentId":4364793,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"minerhouse"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4365484,"authorDomain":"drowninggrover"}
Sharkster, you are grossly misinformed regarding the salaries of UAW line workers. the $80/hr crap you here is a totally falsified, fabricated, massaged number to make the unions look bad (whereas its the UNION, not management, that has been making concessions to make the company solvent)
If you truly are a teacher, then you should know how it feels to be undervalued in our society. You should be in SOLIDARITY with your underpaid, underappreciated UAW brethren but instead you listen to the fox news crap statistics and think it's all their fault...
{"commentId":4365484,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"drowninggrover"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4367758,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
think it's all their fault...
No, it's not 'all the workers fault', top management asleep at the wheel are also to blame. But neither of you are adjusting to a changing market so you are no longer competitive.
Why should teachers 'be in SOLIDARITY' with you? What do your 'careers' and goals have in common?
Personally I would not wish to see unions die off, there is a need for them to protect workers rights. But some unions need to change from being protective of workers only, to being protective of their very industry.
{"commentId":4367758,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4353664,"authorDomain":"plasticman-1-1999"}
This is just totally unbelieveable, a few years ago I worked for a company that made parts for GM with over 500 employees. GM held up a payment to us for new tooling and forced our company into bankruptcy. I want none of my money going to them or any of these big three. And whats up with people testing power windows and making $30 bucks an hour ,I know of one kid that just got hired at Lordstown starting at $17 an hr to put three bolts in the each car they build. What a hard job!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder they need money, how many bolts are in the cars?????? Bet everyone that knows what work is wish they could find easy jobs like this!!!!!!!!! You could probably get rid of half the employees and still not even notice they were gone. CAN YOU SAY LEAN MANUFACTURING!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats what your competition is doing.
{"commentId":4353664,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"plasticman-1-1999"}
#9 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 3:44 AM EST{"commentId":4357463,"authorDomain":"ukjim"}
You nailed it. There are people standing around doing virtually nothing all day long at the "big 3 " plants all across america and making 50k to 80k per year. The UAW has made the big 3 inefficient and payroll poor. Part of the bailout plan should be to break the UAW into dust and hire 1/2 the workers back at the same pay to do all work. There is noone that can honestly say that they work hard on a gm assembly line. It would be a bold faced lie!!! This way the employees that want to work would still make great pay but they would have to earn it. The UAW just makes sure that lazy workers get to milk the employer. It is no wonder that the companies are in trouble.
{"commentId":4357463,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ukjim"}
{"commentId":4358387,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
Didn't help that the photo of the GM Cobalt Assembly line showed about 4-6 people in designer clothes, with one arguing.
{"commentId":4358387,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4365498,"authorDomain":"drowninggrover"}
all this $80/hr crap is quite simply NOT TRUE. Do your homework people, the struggles of the big 3 have little to do with unionized labor.
{"commentId":4365498,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"drowninggrover"}
{"commentId":4353691,"authorDomain":"imthegrouch"}
Wait a minute, what makes the auto industry the #1 in america.... What about the rest of the country out of work? Most of the problem they brought on themselves... A less than average product, poor workmanship, out of control bonus, wasted money, and lazy workers...(and yes, I used to go to alot of the assembly plants alot). Before you go and bail them out, I am sure there are better ways to spend tat money.... Every other business needs to get over the hard times, so should they.
{"commentId":4353691,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"imthegrouch"}
#10 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 4:01 AM EST{"commentId":4354770,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4355793,"authorDomain":"Lee1010"}
I agree that factory jobs and manufacturing have huge image problems. The problem began after WWII when the GI Bill allowed many more people to attend college. Laborers looked at the guy "doing nothing" behind the desk and aspired to that "easy" job. We are a nation of perception, not facts. While you can see a laborer "working", you cannot discern if the guy behind the desk is calculating how much pressure a bridge can withstand or if he's thinking about lunch. Everyone aspired to the white collar job because that guy didn't have to do much and got payed big bucks. This is not a new problem.
Manufacturing creates products we can touch and feel. However, today we speak of financial "products", such as subprime loans and investment derivatives, as if they were tangible. They aren't.
I have worked with business attorneys for years. While they can restructure the most complicated of corporations to give the corporation the best tax advantage, they can't do anything else. Most have to make a ton of money because they can't take care of their cars, fix a leaky faucet, launder their clothes, or even cook. Everything is "outsourced".
I have also noticed in recent years that everyone refers to themselves as "professional" to the point that it means absolutely nothing anymore. I guess it's a status thing.
The pendelum has swung too far in favor of the guys who sit behind the desks. We have to manufacture something in this country or we are a nation of consumers. Of the people on this blog, "Steve Papa" and "debmo" are probably the happiest. They are the least dependent on other people. You have to lean on others at times, but we need to learn a little bit more about how to take care of ourselves "literally". And the more you can do, the more respect you have for good design and people who can "fix" or make things.
{"commentId":4355793,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"Lee1010"}
- 1 vote
#12 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:26 AM EST{"commentId":4356521,"authorDomain":"bills-1"}
Read in an International Business Journal that Honda & Toyota pay their auto workers in the "Mother Country" in the neighborhood of $48.00 hr ! That is not the same neighborhood
that their workers in Alabama, South Carolina and Tennessee live in is it! Kind like one living in
a gated community and the other in a Trailer Park. So when you all begin to praise how much
Honda and Toyota are to contributing to the America ecomony just rembmber they could be doing so much more!!! They are laughing all the way to their JAPANESE bank.
{"commentId":4356521,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"bills-1"}
#13 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:08 AM EST{"commentId":4357035,"authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
Your point? I do not know the cost of living in Japan and Korea, do you? How much do they pay for housing, food, taxes? I can speak about the plants in Alabama. They tend to be in places that do not have high housing costs and/or are within a few miles of "the county" housing market, which is even more cost friendly. These Alabamians pay fairly low state income and property taxes, lower than national average gas prices, food prices etc. The cost of health insurance in AL is much lower than the national average and the basic policy is good insurance, unless you need or want a cadillac policy. Out of all the people I know who work at several assembly plants and parts plants here in AL, all have bought houses, so evidently the average worker isn't living in a "trailer park" here, unless they want to or have greater financial obligations other than housing.
Sure they could pay their workers more, but I haven't heard anyone that works for them complaining :-) The only people I hear complaining are the other auto workers ( Big 3) that make more than them and are still unhappy!
{"commentId":4357035,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4356591,"authorDomain":"bills-1"}
ALSO for all of you with a fountian of mis-information. America workers are rated at the highest productivity
in the world!!! Less workers more work. Look up this information and quit giving you opinions!!!
{"commentId":4356591,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"bills-1"}
- 1 vote
#14 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:11 AM EST{"commentId":4357167,"authorDomain":"irishrky"}
Enough already, the time for UAW is come n gone! Now the FAT piggy bank is leaving and the jobs are going with it. $30-$70 hour to help a robot assemble cars, wow what a slick n easy job. How about $12-$20hr and you have to really work 8-10 hrs a day and pay 60% of your health insurance, dental and then have to pay $1000 to $1500 deductible?
You UAW people have it made!!!! Not for long though!!!!
THe SHARKSTER
{"commentId":4357167,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"irishrky"}
#15 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:44 AM EST{"commentId":4364849,"authorDomain":"minerhouse"}
Let me be clear... no autoworker makes $70/hour! That is another huge misperception. The $70 figure that keeps popping up includes all the legacy costs from all retiree’s health and pension.
{"commentId":4364849,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"minerhouse"}
{"commentId":4357446,"authorDomain":"aijahlon12"}
To the people who will not buy American vehicles, well jolly for you. You just go on making China and Japan rich. And, I hope you realize... where the man/woman will end up living if they continue to build someone else's house and not their own. Out doors. These empty brains recognize that everything sold in our stores are made in China/Japan (or under their control in whatever country), yet, they don't seem to get it...that the cars are too. How many American companies have gone out of business because of foreign interest. If America keeps making other countries rich, what will happen to America? She becomes third world, no doubt. Many don't seem to care about General Motors. Well, at least care about yourself. GM pays salaries to thousands. And their stability affects millions. Lawyers, reporters (advertisers), doctors...every face of society. Don't be stupid and rejoice, or be unconcerned when your fellow Americans lose their jobs. Your's might be next. In case many don't understand, we are all in the house...whether we like the house or not. It's on fire. Unless you want to go up in flames, better start using your mind. Did you want to help Wall Street, and not yourself.
{"commentId":4357446,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"aijahlon12"}
- 1 vote
#16 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:59 AM EST{"commentId":4357572,"authorDomain":"bobbeee77710"}
thank you bobbie, WELL SAID !!!!!!!!
{"commentId":4357572,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"bobbeee77710"}
{"commentId":4357528,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4357606,"authorDomain":"sparky-wg"}
Sen. Richard Shelby takes his marching orders from the same people that marched American fathers and grandfathers to their deaths in Bataan.
He harps on and on about the dollar average of labor between the Japs and US, but seems to forget that the plants in his state operate free charge due to tax abatement, which means they contribute little to the communities in which they reside, but alot to Shelbys own political and personal well being.
To add insult to injury, Shelby is trying to gut the US military aircraft industry by selling this country out to the likes of Airbus and GKN.
We used to execute turncoats like Shelby. His sons would be wise to do America the favor.
{"commentId":4357606,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"sparky-wg"}
- 1 vote
#18 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 12:06 PM EST{"commentId":4357622,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4357802,"authorDomain":"bobbeee77710"}
bud drinker and partysover, don't forget about all the 100's of millions of US taxpayers dollars that are GIVEN to those foregn automakers to build those plants. these foreign country's are laughing there *ss off all the way to THERE banks....
{"commentId":4357802,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"bobbeee77710"}
#20 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 12:16 PM EST{"commentId":4357953,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
bud drinker and partysover, don't forget about all the 100's of millions of US taxpayers dollars that are GIVEN to those foregn automakers to build those plants. these foreign country's are laughing there *ss off all the way to THERE banks....
U.S. taxpayer money was not given. State of Alabama taxpayers did not put the money out either. This money came from the royalties assessed on oil and gas production in the state. It is an investment by our state in our future.
{"commentId":4357953,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4358170,"authorDomain":"bobbeee77710"}
WITH THAT , I rest my case.
{"commentId":4358170,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"bobbeee77710"}
{"commentId":4365132,"authorDomain":"coolbreze-1"}
Who was it that those royalties supposed to go to the state the taxpayer? The fine citizens of Alabama?
{"commentId":4365132,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"coolbreze-1"}
{"commentId":4357829,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4358103,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
Unions made companies take care of employees!
That was then, in recent decades the unions have fostered an environment whereby the companies lose their productive edge to foreign makers who are able to get worker support for automation. To the response that says that this loses jobs, how so as it has enabled the foreign makers to eat your lunch in terms of both quality and sales price.
{"commentId":4358103,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 2 votes
#22 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 12:33 PM EST{"commentId":4358168,"authorDomain":"willis-hill"}
We have subsidised foreign car companies with billions of dollars to locate their factories in south. The american factory worker is the most productive in the world. If we allow domestic manufacturing to fail because we don't value the labor that produces the products we need to support our standard of living where will be? A nation of paper pushers, dependant on third world imports. Unions are not the problem.
{"commentId":4358168,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"willis-hill"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4358579,"authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
Space: I guess some just will not get it. <shrugs> Maybe someone can tell me how the State of Alabama could have better spent/invested these royalties that would have a better outcome for our state?!? How did "we" subsidize?
{"commentId":4358579,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"dc4hilburn"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4358757,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
We have subsidised foreign car companies with billions of dollars to locate their factories in south.
Try millions in local State Tax incentives because the other US Corporations did not want to, and instead outsource to Mexico, Canada, China, India, South America and anyplace except the US.
And I do not believe Ohio, Indiana, Washington, Oregon, Nevada are in the south.
The american factory worker is the most productive in the world. If we allow domestic manufacturing to fail because we don't value the labor that produces the products we need to support our standard of living where will be? A nation of paper pushers, dependant on third world imports. Unions are not the problem.
The majority of the US Corporation sold out the US Citizens to outsourcing. Also yes, the american factory workers at the Government Owned Government Operated or Government Owned Contractor Operated Factories/Plants are the most productive. This will end with the withdrawal from Iraq.
{"commentId":4358757,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4358153,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4358203,"authorDomain":"james-r-reynolds"}
The only thing I care about when I put down my hard-earned cash is long-term reliability and quality. I have owned numerous foreign and domestic produced autos; and just recently (2002) tried US brands again. Hence, you can neither call me biased nor unamerican. Unfortunately in exact opposition to the quality indexes JD Powers (et. al.) describe my current US vehicle has had nothing but problems with little or no backing from the MFG for obvious manufacturing and design flaws. In contrast my previous 18 year old foreign MFG vehicle never let me down, never developed an oil leak, and all I've had to do is follow the scheduled maintenance, oil changes, tires, and brake pads.
So, before you talk about supporting a US MFG vehicle please talk to me about why my experience has been so poor and why I should look to the US MFG further? The only way I'd buy another is if it came with a bumper-to-bumper ulimited mileage guarantee for 20 years. Add to that be 100% created, built, and assembled in US--every nut, bolt, wire, and weld.
As for workers in this industry I truely believe you all are talented with very saleable skills which could be applied in any of a number of different industries. Industry shouldn't be eliminated from the US, it should be embraced. However, not without absolute competition busting quality guarantees for the produced products.
{"commentId":4358203,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"james-r-reynolds"}
- 1 vote
#24 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 12:38 PM EST{"commentId":4358941,"authorDomain":"david393071"}
james.r - Add to that be 100% created, built, and assembled in US--every nut, bolt, wire, and weld.
Exactly. Now explain that to PartysOver, crystal in AL, debmo-571638.
American Cars Made in USA from American Parts for American Citizens.
No more Mexican, Canadian, Chinese cars from the Obese 3 claiming that they are American.
{"commentId":4358941,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"david393071"}
{"commentId":4364184,"authorDomain":"ack"}
I have heard hardly a mention of how the heads of the big three that have kept with SUV's and large trucks when it was obvious from the gas price increases that people couldn't afford to drive or buy them soon. The workers produce can only produce what they are given to produce. One can't sell vehicles that no one wants. The Big Three kept on hoping that the truck and SUV gravy train would continue long after it was obvious to any sane soul that their time was numbered.
{"commentId":4364184,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ack"}
#25 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:01 PM EST{"commentId":4364328,"authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
Sorry B, but the people are why they were building SUV's and large trucks. People wanted them, perhaps to their own detriment, but they wanted them never the less.
Most already had their SUV's and trucks when $4+ gallon of gas came along and then sales dropped dramatically. This forced the pricing down on the value of the vehicles people owned. Everyone that owns and SUV or truck right now is "buried". Meaning all of you are upside down. (Unless you paid cash or put A LOT of money down)
Then the financial markets crashed and people were repo'ing left and right and the bottom completely feel out of the SUV market.
None of those events were the Big 3's fault. The Big 3 started halting production after it became apparent that the raise in gas was going to last for awhile. They were building what Americans were buying. There are MILLIONS of SUV's and trucks on the road that people very willingly purchased.
{"commentId":4364328,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4364773,"authorDomain":"ack"}
Sorry but there were many MANY indications gas prices would drive the market down on big trucks and SUV's soon. The Big three rode that market wave till it was just a tiny little trickle of buyers. They hardy invested in small cars over the years while the Japanese companies poured money into that sector. Not their fault...please...
{"commentId":4364773,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ack"}
{"commentId":4364873,"authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
That is not true. The demand of the SUV's was there even when gas was high. It wasn't until it STAYED high that demand went down.
They do have small cars. Lots of them. GM makes more cars that get more than 30 MPG than ANY other auto maker. That includes Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyandai..........
{"commentId":4364873,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
{"commentId":4364917,"authorDomain":"minerhouse"}
Oil went from 40 to $149 a barrel and you're saying there were indications???
Afraid not.
{"commentId":4364917,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"minerhouse"}
{"commentId":4364968,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
Oil went from 40 to $149 a barrel and you're saying there were indications???
August 2005, Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Rita. That was three years ago. It takes two years to retool.
{"commentId":4364968,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4372660,"authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
The people were still buying the SUV's even after gas went up. I'm not saying that the auto makers didn't know gas was high. I'm saying that people were buying them anyway. No to mention that the Big 3 don't only make trucks and SUV's. They sell small cars too.
The market for SUV' and trucks didn't really start declining until this spring into the summer and the collapse of the financial markets was the straw that broke the camels back.
I STILL have people WANTING to buy SUV's but can't get financed.
{"commentId":4372660,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"tishamauro"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4364239,"authorDomain":"gethap2"}
Isn't the real issue unions and not necessarily manufacturing.
{"commentId":4364239,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"gethap2"}
#26 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:05 PM EST{"commentId":4364322,"authorDomain":"ack"}
whenever the Big Three have a problem they run immediately to Washington to get it solved. I can't count the times they have gotten gas mileage and emission laws changed for their own benefit while the foreign car manufacturers have managed to comply and exceed these laws. Here they are again hat in hand. Someone needs to fire the whole upper managment in these companies not the workers..
{"commentId":4364322,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ack"}
#27 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:11 PM EST{"commentId":4364367,"authorDomain":"hishci"}
no one wants to say it but the unions and good old boy american worker killed the Detroit auto industry. Their CEO;s are not real ceos.
why can they just not settle for the same terms as the other auto manufactures in the south their cars are worse, detoit auto workers are less efficient ,and cost more.
wake up your company is technically bankrupt; if you dont want to compete you should not be bailed out
-
{"commentId":4364367,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"hishci"}
- 1 vote
#28 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:15 PM EST{"commentId":4364730,"authorDomain":"nkorb1"}
Well, don't worry because the dems can't appear to be breaking the union, but they will break the union. Democrats are NOT for the worker...they only say that to win elections. The first thing will be "give backs" ...allowing the company to take back things that were considered to be benefits...and if not, then the company will fold...or so the union will be told.
{"commentId":4364730,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"nkorb1"}
{"commentId":4364432,"authorDomain":"majohnsonpb1"}
No one is upset that workers a making decent money and are home owners. What people are irate about is the need for bridge loans (which will not be repaid) to companies who are bleeding money. If the company is a loser (and the automotive sectors in the US are) then tax payers do not want to burden future generations by trying to save their butts now. And yes-this means that we do not want to pay your mortgage or anyone who gets retirement benefits from the UAW's Union.
File bankruptcy like everyone else and try and save your company. If you can't do it with bankruptcy protection, you won't be able to do it with tax payer dollars.
{"commentId":4364432,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"majohnsonpb1"}
- 1 vote
#29 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:20 PM EST{"commentId":4364500,"authorDomain":"mmaannssoouurr"}
Manufacturing is not a problem in the US. Unions are. They served their purpose in yesteryears, when there were no labor laws, and employers expoited employees to the bones, literally. (They still actually do in sweat shops in textile).
A few years back, foreign auto manufacturers, notably Japanese, in order to protect against protectionist laws in this country, started building cars here, mostly in the southern states. The difference is that these workers did not have unions with exhorbetant demands. The result is that the cost of a worker per car manufactured in Detroit, differ drastically from the cost of a worker per car in South Carolina. That, and a few other atributes, like meantime to failure, energy cost to run it...etc, contributed to the demise of GM & co.
{"commentId":4364500,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"mmaannssoouurr"}
- 1 vote
#30 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:26 PM EST{"commentId":4364540,"authorDomain":"benpainter"}
To Mr. Maccari and others GM Folks,
I have a 2007 Solstice GXP which you and your co-workers built in Deleware. It's a fun car and nice for the money. My wife has a brand new Buick Lucerne which she likes very much. GM cars have improved but they still have a ways to go. Stop the old union versus management fights. Your opponent is no longer GM management. Rather it is the other car companies. Those of us who plunk down hard-earned cash for your products are the one who will, in the final analysis, have the final say.
Ben P
{"commentId":4364540,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"benpainter"}
- 4 votes
#31 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:29 PM EST{"commentId":4364552,"authorDomain":"rclawrence06"}
Oh my the jerks have had 5 bail outs in the past and continue to pay executives hundreds of millions and union and their perks and their union bosses millions... like keep re electing the lifer porkers or Bandits in Washington that have ruined our nation
Let em die they have proved time and time again they are out of touch why should all of us be forced to pay for their ignorance, and their excess and greed etc.
{"commentId":4364552,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"rclawrence06"}
#32 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 7:30 PM EST{"canLink":false,"threadId":"438645","isPrivate":false}
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