Auto turmoil casts cloud over factory jobs

We have the best work force in the world, but if they keep having the build poorly-designed cars and keep being led by idiotic management then no amount of bailout will help.

Work for a dollar a year? Their expertise isn't worth it. Can we get the CEOs to just go away if we offer them each $5???

There are 3 bad actors in this play, each equally culpable.

First:  Washington - CAFE rules essentially made it impossible for Detroit to make many vehicles overseas and forced Detroit to keep large chunks of its manufacturing domestic.  Don't believe me?  Next time you travel overseas to any industrialized nation, note all the Ford, GM, and Dodge vehicles that you can't buy in the US.  Great fuel economy, consumer appealing cars that Detroit simply can't import back into the US b/c of CAFE rules.

Second:  UAW -  The Union fully understood that Detroit was forced to produce vehicles domestically and was thereby forced to deal with the union.  Smart move by the Union to use that leverage but they took it too far.  Need an example?  The UAW jobs bank, which essentially forces Detroit manufacturers to pay laid off Union workers 95% of their salary.  I was at a conference last week and my white collar collegues and I were flabergasted at breakfeast as we read the Wall Street Journal piece annoucning "major" UAW concessions including the suspension of the Jobs Bank program.  Not the ELIMINATION but just the suspension of that program.

Third: Detroit Management -  They lacked the spine and back bone to fight back and protect their share holders' interest.  They took the easy way out the past 20 years by focusing on the short term profitability of SUV's and Trucks while not laying the ground work for transition to the current vehicle market that everybody has known was coming for at least 15 years.

Bail these dummies out?  Not with out restructuring everything in the following manner:

1.  Eliminate CAFE rules and artificially tax gas to $ to promote fuel mileage.

2.  Rip up the UAW contracts and the federal mandates requiring domestic production of vehicles under CAFE rules.  When threatened with moving jobs overseas, the Unions will work more earnestly for sustainable job contracts.

3.  Wipe out all shareholder equity at any company taking bailout money.  The managers of teh Detroit 3 made bad decisions, unfortunately, its the stock owners who need to pay the price.

There is one point that is missed by most, if not all, of you.

As a supplier to the big 3 and to Honda plants on OH, I get the opportunity to get into these plants. ALL OF THE ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT IN THE HONDA TRANSMISSION PLANT AND THE NISSAN PLANT IN MURFREESBORO, TN. WAS SUPPLIED BY THE JAPANESE.

This amounts to a boatload of money, jobs and technology that Americans never even got a chance to bid on. And when I say boatlaod, we are talking hundreds of millions of $$$.

My guess is every transplant supplies all their equipment from overseas. I don't blame  anyone else but our politicians. They have sold Detroit out, and as soon as they are finsihed with us and there is nothing else to give, they will start looking your way.

Photo one,five americans working on a Cobalt?Really?Photo three, the japanese actually working..I guess that's GM for you..

I'm STILL laughing at Harleytype's comment #41...  that's funny!!!  You'd think they'd try and show a picture of someone at least PRETENDING to use a tool instead of showing five guys standing around a car not even trying to look busy...  Fortunately, the two guys leaning against the wall in the background (doing even less) make them look "productive"...  Excellent observation Harleytype!  Very funny!

Sorry,  the big 3 need to die.    It's over folks.  Kids do not even know what a buick or a Mercury anything even is!  My Brother told me 30 years ago that the average age for Buick owners was 60 years old!   GM has had all this time to fix thier problem and they did not!  It seems really funny to me that Toyota is building two new plants in America right now.   How come Toyota,  Honda, and Nissan do not need a bailout.  What about Volkswagen or Porsche?   It's because these automakers make cars that people want. Kids want a cool Scion!  Or a Honda SI!   Buick,  Hummer,  Saturn, Pontiac, GMC, Chevy Impala are dead.  If you give them money....they will still die!!!  Nick

I currently work as a production supervisor in a highly automated manufacturing environment in the "south" and have a couple of thoughts/feeling on the subject of the US gov't bailing out the automotive industry:

1) So as a supervisor I tend to watch THINGS.  Did anyone else notice that there are 9 people in the picture and 6 of them are watching others work?  Really how many people does it take to test a door? Hmmm why are the big three in trouble -- I just don't get it.

2) I believe that unions served an important role in society, but now they are detrimental to it.  I go to work every day and HOPE it's not the day we lay off people (we haven't had to yet due to our low labor costs in the product), hope that I'm not one of them, hope my health care is good enough and maybe, just maybe I have enough money to retire when I'm 75 (that's not a typo). Tell me about the UAW worker that deals with that. These are real issues we are all dealing with.  I don't know what tomorrow's going to bring.

3) The gov't didn't do anything for any other major industries with unions -- ie airlines and they seemed to work it out. I think that filing for chapter 11 might be the best thing for the big 3 -- so they can get out of the union.

4) It's not the assembler that accounts of the quality of the car.  It takes engineerability, the supply chain and quality.  If you let those standards slide you will get crap, so stop blaming the guy that puts bolts in sheetmetal.  I've been on both sides in my career:  put the good parts on top cause they won't dig to the bottom to check those.

5) Most companies that build a plant get incentives. Some of those include guarenteeing they employ so many people full time. I'd bet money that every "foreign" auto manufacturing is under these incentives -- so way is that a bad thing?

6) And finally, praise the congress people who called out the three CEOs for flying in their private jets the meeting. -- Now as a worker bee, I understand that we can't make color copies anymore due to a cost savings, but I do expect my VP is not driving his gas guzzling Dodge RAM 200 miles to the other plant and charging off gas when he could get a hybrid civic for less.  Everyone has to cut back.  That's the ecomony we are in.

"PROBLEM ON THE HORIZON" - I guess everyone thinks the Big 3 also manufacture big over the road trucks,, well "PACCAR" which makes KENWORTH & PETERBILT Trucks are also Severly Struggling, with Sales of the Heavy Long Haul Trucks, as well as Freightliner, Volvo, etc,,, I haven't heard anybody address the issue as to what happens when these Long Haul Truck makers go belly up,,, and they employ Hundreds of thousands of Workers as well,,,     Go GOOGLE - PACCAR CORP .  Research them,,,,, their next,, its just around the corner,,,,,,,,,

kudo's to marc, melissa, white collar, space guy, ebookout, realist, audie, and tony!  i think they are "right on!"  my wife once worked for a local gm dealership...we felt "obligated" to buy american gm...however, when faced with our first 'new car' purchase in decades,  we bought toyota.  perfectly happy with the product (made in kentucky,)  and, very content that half the price of the vehicle did not go to union retirement, "sick days," vacation, overtime, breaks, holidays, "rules," and all the other union crap.  we own a small business...we operate on the edge all the time, and we work hard, long hours.   sorry, we have no sympathy for the big three! 

  The  BIGGEST reason to give the bailout to the big 3 is Detroits way ahead of Japan in future cars.  They have leapfrogged old tech hybrids and moved to all electric, CNG and hydrogen powered cars.  These cars of the future are being tested right now around the country in large numbers.  Also I'm shocked at all the folks that are so happy making $10+ LESS than union workers!  Now we're fighting each other to make LESS money!  WOW!!

I don't believe that anyone is saying that we should get rid of our automobile industries.  What is being said by most folks is that we cannot continue to have this industry run the way it is and how it is currently structured.  I personally do not believe in the bail-out/loan initiative.  I think that the industry if it can no longer be viable should declare bankruptcy and enter a court directed recievership.  Some workers may lose their jobs, but the industry will still continue to exist, and the business model restructured.  As for buying American, I believe that one should buy QUALITY and if AMerican industry provides it so much the better, but if another country provides it then they have the advantage of getting my dollars.

Photo one,five americans working on a Cobalt,Really??Photo three,Japanese actually working..Figures..

“What killed Detroit was Washington, the government of the United States, politicians, journalists and muckrakers who have long harbored a deep animus against the manufacturing class that ran the smokestack industries that won World War II," conservative pundit Pat Buchanan said in a recent article published on WorldNetDaily.com. (Buchanan is a msnbc political analyst.)

What I haven't heard from the blue collar sector of the American auto industry is any accountability at all. Let's face it: American vehicle quality is sub par compared to most of it's foreign competitors. And the big three weren't to concerned about it until Honda and Toyota started upping the ante in the late 1970's early 1980's.

Go ahead and blame every one else for your problems. Ultimately, your apathy, ignorance and greed are valid reasons for your fall from grace.

But don't fret. We'll bail you out because your miserable failure is threatening our economy.

But be prepared when I demand a return on my investment.

Why do you think everyone in the auto industry is building plants in the south? They have to to be competitive. Labor and less state taxes. Michigan is taxing business out of existence their state. Brain dead politicians. But what do you want from people who has never been in business.

After they get the bailout the dumbasses will probably go on strike for more money

The American ship is sinking very fast. You have utter morons who will blame everything on Democrats, on union labor, to out-sourcing, to greedy Wall Street. The ship is sinking because many people expect much from little. So, please, go shop at Wal Mart. I hear prices are cheap. Many of you want to save a dime. Go shop at Wal Mart. I am convinced that is the answer. The goods they sell are all produced in America. Go shop at Wal Mart you stupid fools. That is the future of America, the sinking ship. Go shop at Wal Mart and quit complaining.....

The more we have a bad attitude about our own manufacturing, the more we all become losers. Wealth accumulates when you make things. Service industries are all well and good, but they largely shuffle about existing wealth, they don't make new wealth. If we want to become a country that merely consumes or does things for each other in exchange for existing wealth, then we have to accept that eventually we will have exhausted our wealth and our standard of living will dramatically drop off.

Actually, what we are witnessing is that very thing happening - we have tried to hide the problem by blowing asset bubbles to disguise that we are not generating the wealth we need. Killing our industries in a currently fashionable fit of anti-American sentiment might satisfy the liberal feeling that we are losers - but it only contributes to making us losers.

I am a white collar worker and a Republican.

I vote to help the automakers.  Perhaps a managed bankruptcy would be best to allow them to shed debt and union liabilities.  Give the workers (directly) tax incentives to shed their union and to allow the automakers to recover.  Put the money directly into the workers pockets.

America needs fundamental manufacturing.  The Americans who work for those companies need their jobs – their families need those jobs.  Put yourself in their position.  You can easily be next.

I have always bought American.  And I respect those men and women who have elected to work in manufacturing.

I despise unions for their support of far left political candidates. And, I hope the UAW disbands or is forced into insolvency.

What the UAW did to the automakers, the Public employee unions are dong to States and municipalities.

I have been an employee of GM for almost 20 years. I'm a technician for a Saturn dealer and throughout my career I have worked for Chevy, Olds, Pontiac, and now Saturn. Also throughout my career, I have been a loyal union member and proudly affiliated with UAW. I have read many comments here and it does nothing but upset me to see that some are against unions. My union has backed me over the years. They have fought for proper wages and great health care, and continue to work with the dealer association to keep it that way. I'm a blue collar, middle class hard worker who struggles everyday to make a decent dollar. I can't afford to be sick or I could lose my home. My union would help me in any way, shape, or form to keep me working in case of lay-offs. This industry screwed itself, the unions didn't have anything to do with it. GM screwed up and now they have to blame someone other than themselves. Do I want to see GM pack it up, hell no! I don't want to see good hard working blue collar middle class American people loss their jobs! It's not fair to them! They work hard, they rotate shifts, take pay cuts, work with the company so everyone can keep their jobs. Doesn't sound like it's the unions fault to me! Hell, if it wasn't for the unions the companies can just lay them all off or fire them. And hire less qualified personal. It's the middle class American people who keep this country rolling, and big industries who will pinch every penny they can to not pay us! Shame on you all who disagree!

I worked for GM about 3 months in the 50's and can speak for what I call union over burden. It was a good job and I enjoyed it but I will never forget the total disregard of the union employees for a decent days work for the pay they recived. It has been in my opinion the fault of those employees for the lingering problems we see today in the auto industry. The white collar employees are just as guilty and must share the blame for the poor reception in Washington. It is an attitude that runs deep in all of the BIG THREE. I think it was just easier for management to turn a blind eye on the problems and jack the price for the finished product. We as consumers and producers are all guilty of just getting by and that was the open door for the competition to step in and fill the hole we left open. What has happened is evident coast to coast. Let's face it we as AMERICANS can do better, we did it before. We can produce QUALITY & QUANTITY IF WE REALLY CARE. You and I as individuals know when we have done our best and when we have slacked off and that my fellow worker "white or blue collar" is an inner knowledge only each of us can bring back to this great country we call home. This same problem is not only evident in autos but in all of our manufacturing and service. When each of do our part jobs will be there for everyone. YOUR CHOICE---THIS IS NOT A BLAME GAME IT IS FOR REAL, ALL ABOARD OR STAND IN LINE WITH THE UNEMPLOYABLE.

After 3 years at GM in the 70's, i left, disgusted at the waste and greed of so many workers.  The unions were unbelievably stupid.  They said: give us 5% and quarterly C.O.L.A.(that's cost of living allowance to those of us that have never had one)every quarter or we will shut you down with a strike.   In 1978, minimum wage at $1.65 would give someone about $52.00 a week take home on a 40 hour week. But no, The Big Three paid about  $10. an hour and mandatory Saturday and Sunday work so guys were going straight from high school to about $700. a week at the plants.  Really encourages you to get an education, doesn't it?  So, all those guys that are still around are making about $60,000. a year, or more.  But how many of there kids got jobs there?  Almost none.  Gee, wonder why so many of them have kids that are bitter and don't have faith in the government.   

First, I worked at a G.M. foundry so I am not ignorant to the facts.  Second my father retired after nearly 38 years at a G.M. foundry so I grew up with tons of second hand knowledge.  The plain simple FACT is that over the years the employees both blue and white collar have developed a sense that they are better than their neighbors.  That they are worth more than their neighbors and that they DESERVE more than their neighbors.  While their neighbors worried about KEEPING their job, GETTING their medical bills paid, and God forbid having the resources to pay for an attorney; the factory worker was handed these benifits from a corporation with no foresight, and with a union mentality that were here, so give us what we DESERVE.  The fact is the Union and Corporate greed and mentality that the company OWES you for showing up is what is putting you out of work, and has alienated you from your neighbors.  YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELF and YOU (the big three employees) HAVE ALSO DONE DAMAGE TO YOUR NEIGHBOR.  Because of your greed and need to outspend your co-workers, you the big three employees are ticked off at your neighbors because YOU put yourself deep in debt. and now your not going to get what you feel you DESERVE.  P.S. did you notice...not once did I say you EARNED it.  Before you start screeming let me remind you that I WORKED at a G.M. foundry.  I watched two men pretend to hump each other at the controls of a R.M.I.P. deck.  (you that work there know what I am talking about)  I witnessed a supervisor pick up a pill bottle full of pot, place it on his desk with a sign that read.."come see me if you need this back" even though the supervisor KNEW who hid the pot, THE UNION PREVENTED HIM FROM TAKING ACTION.  I saw Beer cans and bottles scattered about on the roof near an area called "OLD STONEY" ring a bell with some foundry readers.  I could go on, and on with horror stories about the crap that the "skilled" labor force is doing INSTEAD OF DOING THEIR JOBS.  I have not purchased a new car since 1989 because I REFUSE TO PAY so much for a piece of crap that was built by people WHO DESERVE their pay instead of those that feel they should EARN it.  If this bail out happens, and when the time comes that I do want a new car, you can bet your bottom line if the union and management of the big three do not take some SERIOUS and PERMANANT pay and benifit cuts, my next car will NOT be a GM, Ford, or Chrysler!   It's WAKE UP TIME AMERICA!!

David, you are the "TARD " you must be about thirteen maybe fourteen don"t know ?? Honda,Toyota & the other car company's are subsides by their goverment's giving them an unfair advantige. U.S need's to charge a tariff on import"s like they do us. The BIG THREE has taken care of the AMERICAN worker for years allowing there employee's to buy product made in AMERICA and support your way of life (if you have one) ??? THEY can not take us by AIR SEA or LAND but will take us internaly      YOU FORGET

If you believe that your the only one to blame for not getting a union job. I don't care what the union does or does not do. I hired in the place where I work for what I negotiated. I don't believe in be-littling another American just because they are union. I know PLENTY of lazy non union types. It's not easy for anyone. I have had three companies close that I have worked for...I wish that I had a union job to help me out but I didn't complain that I didn't I went out and got something else. To me it's a personal attitude. If you are a good worker than you know it union or not...and I am also a Veteran, got to just do the best that I can...

Yep, again.  Traditional union thinking.  "If it wasn't for the union, they could just lay me off."

Well, hello!  In our small busines, we have had to (not lay off, but) cut everyone's hours even this week in order to stay competitive and to stay in business!  It's a tough economy.  We all are suffering.  Incidentally, we don't take breaks and rarely even get to eat lunch.  We work hard.  Our biggest personal expense is health insurance.  Again, we just can't bring ourselves to feel much sympathy for the silver-spoon-fed, upside-down American auto industry.    If anyone needs a "bailout," it's us small-town business folks who get help from no one...except our paying customers!