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Ron Maccari, an assembly worker for General Motors for nearly 30 years, has been angry lately over the negative comments he’s heard on TV and read on the Internet about his chosen career.
For weeks, the Big Three U.S. automakers have been on a campaign for a federal bailout, leaving the manufacturing industry as a target of public vitriol.
Lawmakers, economists and business executives have joined in the attack.
Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., called the U.S.-based auto industry a “dinosaur.” An analysis in The Wall Street Journal titled “Just Say No to Detroit” by economist David Yermack suggested: “We would do better to set this money on fire rather than using it to keep these dying firms on life support.” Media mogul Ted Turner, in an interview with NBC's Tom Brokaw, questioned why the country was still trying to “keep alive a smokestack industry of the past.”
Maccari, who works at the Newport, Del., plant that makes GM's Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice, thinks blue-collar work is getting a bum rap.
“If someone is producing something in this country, is making money and has a semi-decent house, we thumb our nose at them,” he said. “I read what they’re saying on blogs: ‘Let the auto industry die.’”
Maccari sees a growing movement in the United States to “disregard manufacturing, to eliminate it.”
Maccari’s not alone in his feelings.
“What killed Detroit was Washington, the government of the United States, politicians, journalists and muckrakers who have long harbored a deep animus against the manufacturing class that ran the smokestack industries that won World War II," conservative pundit Pat Buchanan said in a recent article published on WorldNetDaily.com. (Buchanan is a msnbc political analyst.)
Today only about 13 million people work in the manufacturing sector, down from nearly 18 million 10 years ago, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Despite the decline in jobs, there are expected shortages of skilled production workers in a host of industries. These include everything from aerospace to medical manufacturing to products needed for infrastructure improvements and green industries favored by President-elect Barack Obama, says Patricia Lee, a spokeswoman with the Fabricators & Manufacturers Association, a trade group.
A recent survey by the group found that the most serious concern about the sector, behind the cost of raw materials, was availability of skilled labor.
But companies have no plans to hire significantly in the sector, at least for a while.
PricewaterhouseCoopers’ manufacturing barometer, which reports on hiring and business in domestic manufacturing, found that only 12 percent of manufacturing executives surveyed in the third quarter were planning to expand their work force over the next 12 months; 40 percent were planning cuts.
Longer term the outlook is less grim. “Manufacturing is not dead,” says Barry Mishtal, industrial manufacturing sector leader for PricewaterhouseCoopers. “It has a great future in the U.S., but now is a difficult time.”
He believes that in years to come U.S. manufacturers will need workers with higher skill levels, unlike the lower-level skills that were needed for many jobs that went overseas.
The FMA’s Lee says that training should include everything from trade school courses in high school to college engineering and science degrees.
But since such jobs are still undervalued by so many Americans, she says, not enough people are interested in the training needed for these jobs.
“It’s an image problem,” said Craig Giffi, chairman of the Global Manufacturing Industry practice for Deloitte, referring to manufacturing work. “It’s perceived as dirty and grimy and hard labor. Manufacturers understand they have an image problem.”
Giffi believes most people don’t understand that manufacturing today generally is a high-tech industry done in facilities with clean floors.
Plus the image of manufacturing jobs has declined as white-collar jobs have gained ascendancy.
“The idea is you go out, develop yourself, educate yourself and basically become a white-collar worker,” explained Mark Clark, associate professor at the Kogod School of Business at American University.
Manufacturing sector jobs have become stigmatized, he argues, as a result of the democratization of education. “We want to send our kids to college, to get computer skills," he says. "That doesn’t seem to coincide with manufacturing.”
But that assessment is unfair, he noted, and blue-collar jobs are getting the short end of the stick. “If we’re too good for manufacturing, then pretty soon everyone is too good to do manufacturing, and that will create difficulties," he says.
Another issue plaguing manufacturing, and the auto industry in particular, is the belief by many that unions aren’t necessary anymore and that they may have contributed to the problems automakers are facing now.
“Ask any consumer not remotely related to manufacturing, and the first thing they talk about is the union,” says Clint Adamkavicius, senior industry analyst for consulting firm Frost & Sullivan. Many believe unions have contributed to the high cost of products like cars and few want to bailout a work force they believe is making more money than they think they should.
Most statistics show that unionized workers, especially in manufacturing, tend to make more than their non-union counterparts.
The high wages enjoyed by unionized manufacturing workers, including the United Auto Workers, gave many American workers a path into the middle class they would not have had otherwise, says Gary Chaison, professor of industrial relations at Clark University’s Graduate School of Management.
He says the shortage of manufacturing workers goes beyond perception issues.
“Those shortages won’t be filled unless these jobs are high-paying, provide good employee benefits and give assumptions of continued employment,” he says.
If the U.S. auto industry were to die off because people think workers make too much or they just don’t like the industrial nature of the business, he said, “then maybe we’re saying the United States cannot be a manufacturing country.”
GM assembly worker Maccari hopes that’s not the conclusion Congress or his fellow citizens come to.
He’s eligible to retire in a little over a year and is praying that his longtime employer has a future, not just for himself but for the workers and the for an industry he’s spent his whole life in.
“When you worked with your hands it used to be considered fairly important, an honorable occupation,” he says. “I think it still is.”
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{"commentId":4365979,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
Brywilder sounds like you got fired ???? Your Dad raised you with this MONEY
{"commentId":4365979,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
#76 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 9:53 PM EST{"commentId":4366269,"authorDomain":"brywilder"}
Bobbyz-766670
Here's some FACTS for you BOBBY Fact #1 in 1984 I QUIT G.M. much to the demise of my father. I was kicked out of the house for my action. The reason I QUIT was because I confronted the "SKILLED" employee that dumped a 5 gallon bucket of contaminated oil on my fathers head for trying to get him fired for NOT SHOWING UP FOR WORK. I started my own business and failed a couple of times even loosing my house and business to a forclosure. I learned from that and worked even harder and EARNED my way into a good position with a company. I also managed to build an 8,000 sq ft home for my family and guess what idiot....after 14 years of house payments, it's paid for. I guess I should thank the union for that FACT. NOT!
No coat tails or purse strings for me. Just hard work. Try it someday Bobbie opps Bobby
{"commentId":4366269,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"brywilder"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4366352,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366387,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
I have worked for a FORD dealer for 30 plus years. Have worked my way up from a parts driver at 1.65 per hour to Parts Manager at a top 20 parts dealer working 65 to 70 hours per week. Paid off 3 houses ( 2 rentals now) all 3 would not equal 8,000 sq ft. But they are paid for. do you know that the U.S worker works more hours then any other country ???????
{"commentId":4366387,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
{"commentId":4366619,"authorDomain":"brywilder"}
Bobby-z & party's over.
No grudge. if fact my current employement is in jeopardy if the auto indudtry fails. However we need to look at some real hard facts about a lot of auto companies that tried to make it here in the good ol USA. and were shot down by lobbiest from the big three. Rent Tucker some time and start doing some research. Here was a group of people that LOVED their job and were ran out by others only to have their inovations and creative thinking stolen by the "Big Three" (which at the time I believe was actually 4) Get real folks. If we let these guys fail, there are 10 more companies begging to get in the door with ideas and inventions that will most likely take us a giant leap into the future. There are two electric car companies (owned by private U.S. citizens) that are drooling at the fact that the big three have shunned their ideas, and are now in trouble. This is a much needed and valuable WAKE UP CALL for all of America. Let it take it's course, America and more importantly American's WILL SURVIVE and THRIVE without the big three. For the sake OF MY KIDS, I want to see new inovative thinking, reasonable cost, and a future that holds JOBS for my kids, not unemployment lines. Way to go on the three houses, and I am glad I am not the only one that works way too many hours. I retract the Bobbi comment. For all of my neighbors out there busting your butt to pay your bills and are not sitting at home recieving 95% of your pay for watching Oprah. Kudos to you all. For those that are getting paid to watch Oprah, your about to get invited to the real world!
{"commentId":4366619,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"brywilder"}
{"commentId":4366656,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366751,"authorDomain":"brywilder"}
I have a garden in my backyard, a corn furnace for heat in the west wing of my house and 1/3 of my basement dedicated to food storage. I am installing a wind generator this spring and have enough cash or metals stored to pay my taxes for a while. I think this is called survival. Americans can and will do it if they need to. Bring on the food lines and yes I WILL help my neighbors in need as long as they help EARN their keep by helping tend the garden, and fruit crops. Most importantly, folks I only earn about 35,000 a year. IT CAN BE DONE!!!! BUT IT INVOLVES HARD WORK!!!!
{"commentId":4366751,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"brywilder"}
{"commentId":4366762,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
brywilder, thank you i do work hard to take care of my family of 5 and i'm sure you do also. my point is you can not take money away from the union worker when they pay the c.e.o at ford 42.7 millon dollars for four months work. sept 2006 to dec 2006. saw this at american airlines they ask for consessions from unions they gave 30-40% off pay. next year management got a bonus this is wrong you have got to agree ????
{"commentId":4366762,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
{"commentId":4366875,"authorDomain":"brywilder"}
bobby-z Re-read the post. I totally agree with you. This MUST be a total restructure which includes both management and labor and most importantly since ultimatly they pay the bills, the stockholders must re-think the way they do business. We need this change. ALL of America needs this change. We went from savers to spenders and put ourselves into this prediciment. Our country will soon be bankrupt. It's happened before, it will happen again. WE just need to be prepared and make much needed sacrafices, including pay and benifit losses for everything to balance out in the end. We DONT NEED to make 80,000 a year +— to have a life. But we do need to stop paying 400,000.00 for a 40,000.00 house. When we stop paying too much, the price comes down and people start buying again. Do you really think a person making mid 30's for a living wants to pay mid 30's for a car that is worth mid teens after 6 months? P.S. I too have 5 kids, tough job eh!
{"commentId":4366875,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"brywilder"}
{"commentId":4366037,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366123,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
thank you !!!!!!!!!!
{"commentId":4366123,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
- 1 vote
#78 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:06 PM EST{"commentId":4366171,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366210,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
We need to take care of this country FIRST !!!!!!
{"commentId":4366210,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
- 1 vote
#79 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:14 PM EST{"commentId":4366398,"authorDomain":"teama"}
Yes I agree!!! When Americans can earn a decent wage then they can take care of their families better and spend money which helps out everyone. I hate seeing cars made in other countries come here I own three American auto's and they have all been great!! I just don't like the foreign cars i had one a Japanese once and I had to sell it , Now that I think of it all of my vehicles are made by unions I guess and they are just fine. But if people want to work for less than the American Auto makers that is their right and I won't tell them that they can't. But why don't they unionize and earn More? Are they not allowed to or doesn't the Union let them or? Seems kinda stupid to me...If you can vetter yourself and your family i would think that you would want to do that..I know I would anyways.
{"commentId":4366398,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"teama"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4366255,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366336,"authorDomain":"glastron"}
The bailout loan plan had better becareful with the manufacturing base. If it is structured in a way that ships the manufacturing to Mexico or overseas, the companies may survive, but the effective will not be good on the economy if the factories are lost in the US. Losing U.S. manufacturing jobs and facilities will hurt a lot more than anyone would care to admit, including those of us that do not work in these plants, it would be a tremendous ripple across the economy.
{"commentId":4366336,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"glastron"}
#81 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:26 PM EST{"commentId":4366362,"authorDomain":"haashaus-1"}
C'mon, ya'll - if the big three has "taken care of the American worker," why all the headlines?
Who's in trouble?
{"commentId":4366362,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"haashaus-1"}
- 2 votes
#82 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:28 PM EST{"commentId":4366466,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366496,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
Gary, Let 2.5 millon jobs go (first) then more to follow who is going to take care of these people the U.S goverment which is the tax payer's ME and YOU plus no tax dollars from BIG THREE 125 billon first year someone will have to take on tax burden WAKE UP !!!!!!!
{"commentId":4366496,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
{"commentId":4366388,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366490,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
Article comment - manufacturing class that ran the smokestack industries that won World War II.
Response - They didn’t run these industries, the manufacturing class worked for entrepreneurs that took an idea and took some risk in a system of government "and non-regulation" that allowed them to flourish and win. The factory worker is the same in the US as they are in other countries, doing what they are told; maybe some room for self determination in their daily tasks but still operating in a defined box like the worker in Japan.
Except for the unionized folk. The American worker is paid for risk (rarely risk related to injury, suck it up) and size of the labor pool for the position. Without unions, there are plenty of people willing and capable of working on that line in their defined box well for minimum wage (or close to it).
{"commentId":4366490,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
#84 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:40 PM EST{"commentId":4366494,"authorDomain":"teama"}
They can't get the credit markets to loan money. the bankers took most of the bailout money and put it into 1yr t-Bills. That means that instead of loaning to corps, like the auto companies they have it in the bank getting paid interest from the taxpayers. that's the dirty little secret. in all of the Congressional testimoney all three corps. were making a profit until two things gas prices hindered people not to buy and the Credit Crises.
{"commentId":4366494,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"teama"}
#85 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:40 PM EST{"commentId":4366555,"authorDomain":"bobket"}
frieghtliners used to be good quality relativley affordable trucks,the last three my company bought are pieces of @!$%# eveything from the fitting of the windows to the motors,in the last three years they have been in the shop total 2 months out of 12
{"commentId":4366555,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"bobket"}
#86 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:46 PM EST{"commentId":4366582,"authorDomain":"zelt"}
you know auto maker's want a 35 billon dollar bridge loan. aig & bank got a 700 billon (plus) bail out and never went to congress or senate. were where all you when that happened. now bankers are getting millons in bonus and everyone is looking at the big three what is up everyonr forget ?????????????
{"commentId":4366582,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"zelt"}
#87 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:48 PM EST{"commentId":4366625,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
why are the banks getting money? that dog can hunt.
The auto industry, bogged down with both deadbeat management and unions. that dog doesnt have a chance. put em to sleep. We need to find the next technical revolution and be the best or we're dead.
{"commentId":4366625,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
#88 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:52 PM EST{"commentId":4366726,"authorDomain":"ntriesch"}
Who really wants a Buick? Who really wants a Impala! Folks want the Honda Accord. The Toyota Camrey. The Honda SI Civic. A lot of you folks just do not get it. It's just part the Unions. It's just part the high cost of medical. The real reason the Big Three is going away is because no one wants their cars anymore. Why would you get a Caddie when you could get a Benz or a BMW 5 or 6 series with much better resale value? Why get a Buick when you can get a Lexus. The Big three were riding high with the huge SUV's and trucks. When they stopped selling the Big three did not have a bunch of little cars waiting to go. Why not??? Everyone else did. What a terrible blunder!!! Everyone at the top needs to be fired! Buick La Crosse? Give me a break! Nick
{"commentId":4366726,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ntriesch"}
- 2 votes
#89 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:03 PM EST{"commentId":4366749,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
Amen!
{"commentId":4366749,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4367546,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4369063,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
Yes, in Japan, Buick. one country. does that make you feel better.
Worldwide, these brands have no appeal (that equal the favorable sales numbers vs the compeition) don't sell.
You can look at an attribute of their performance that makes you feel better but the real result is what we're seeing on the hill today.
{"commentId":4369063,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
{"commentId":4369190,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4369242,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
Thats an opionion?..c'mon now it's common sense. Sales are down across the board for both foreign and domestic mfrs, but last time I checked, Honda and Toyota were doing alright.
{"commentId":4369242,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
{"commentId":4369300,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4369364,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
hmmmmmm? did I disagree with your numbers? what did I say above (read) sales are off across the board for both foreign and domestic mfrs.
However, they make cars people want to buy. There will be no turnaround in the US auto market with the labor commitments and, more importantly, the POS product options (cars) from US MFRs.
{"commentId":4369364,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
{"commentId":4369456,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4366727,"authorDomain":"teama"}
Resentment and sorry for themselves that's all I hear. If another American does better than you it's their FAULT... Or someones.. a union... a company... a manager... Not surprised about Freightliner they are owned by Daimler(mercedes/benz). they force Freightliner to buy what they tell them to buy (parts). NO competaive bidding from the US parts manufacturers. They have to come from Germany or who they tell them...That's why the replacement parts are so high... they prop up German Industries and Buisness. they Love our Money but hate Americans...
{"commentId":4366727,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"teama"}
#90 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:03 PM EST{"commentId":4367001,"authorDomain":"blackstar1"}
Come on Americans this whole situation started and is still the housing mess. America has a history of pulling the middle class apart. No matter what your race or gender maybe close your eye and smell what going on. People are saying why don't we let the big three go bankrupt because we can drive foriegn vehicles. Don't forget we can import everything we need but is this what we want? We could have let the British defeat us but we didn't,we can hirer the whole counrty of El Salvador to come up and work for $2 a day but we don't. I know some state in the country don't have union but in America with the combine efforts of those union worker help working condition for all Americans Workers.
Here the real deal the top CEO in America makes $192 million a year. The freaking average for the top ten CEO's made (drum roll please) $101 million a piece, and where crying about $30 a hour for a GM worker. The tactic of blaming those who have the least control of the deal is the fall guy. Now here where you can open your eye and see that smell you were smelling was really b***s***. I don't care how many plans Congress or the Senate has drawn up I know at least half of these mortgages can be solve with current programs right now!
The US Treasury is saying they don't know if they would give the Auto Industry a bail out? this is coming from a guy worth $700 million and has giving the bank money thur this discount window and that cash infusion while using up the first of the bailout monies only to his bank buddies. You ever went to the store with money your mother gave you for a specific thingand came back home with what you wanted. If the Banks had to operation like GM or Ford the Government would have already recall these bad mortgage loans. Question, if the US Government had said that these are bad loans why should the customer have to be saddle with this stuff. Who do you think is driving all the gas guzzling Hummers Bank CEO's. No I don't have a MBA from MIT but I do have Love in my heart for this country. So America can sit and listen to these fake patriot with there flag flying outside there home and cry to support the troop, which really means I ain't got a pair. By the way the enlistment max enlistment age is 35 but I'm sure for those who want to follow the McCain plan and stay in Iraq for 100 years we can waive the age requirement. Will we as America see that young proud disable Veteran as the light dime from this War and still have that compassion for them or blame them for not being smart enough to avoid service.
I know what needs to be done to fix the mortgages for these Americans in America who were not well represented even the fact that they paid mortgage experts to handle mortgage financing, this is not to say some people didn't make the right choice but let do the fighting first and roll up out of this mess and learn the lesson of what happen when we get back at home safe. All the top financial folk are saying these are complex financial instruments but I said no this is just an old fashion shell game. As with Ford and the Firestone tire recall, we didn't care who involved it was fixed.
P.S. Detroit need to understand there is enough market share to put US back on top, but understand when you finance your customer on used cars you don't pack everything you can invent in the F&I so one day your customer can trade up to that new car. Remember you want a customer for life and not just one to laugh at when they drive away with the tail light warranty. Your game in financing vehicles is the same as the housing hustle. Keep building gas guzzler for your CEO buddies like the mortgage/game when the rubber meet the road WallStreet Bankers will turn on you quicker that an Adjustable Rate Loan.
{"commentId":4367001,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"blackstar1"}
#91 - Tue Dec 9, 2008 11:34 PM EST{"commentId":4367301,"authorDomain":"rcrfwt"}
Auto turmoil casts cloud over factory jobs
Where in the world have you come from.
I did not know that all this was new to the Country.
The Unions or factory works as you call them have done nothing more than jointed the rankd of the CEOs and Wall Street with this Bail Out!
{"commentId":4367301,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"rcrfwt"}
#92 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:13 AM EST{"commentId":4368560,"authorDomain":"jbpb"}
To everyone out there. YES, the problems with the Automotive industry are all of our problems. I work for an Automotive supplier to both the domestic and the import companies. At the end of this month, our plant will be so downsized it isn't even worth keeping open and yes, I am one of those being downsized. We are a rural community in which this is the one and only industry. For anyone to say let them all file bankruptsy or die, stop and think about everyone and everything that will be effected. Do we really want the United States, the Land of Opportunity to be a Service Industry that serves burgers or cleans rooms for Tourists.
I agree there are issues that the Big 3 need to address. I have worked with the Purchasing and Design people at all of them and they are a hard working bunch of people. I have been out on the assembly line and have seen what it takes to put a car together. Yes, some of it is easy but much of the work is skilled labor. There is more to putting a car together than just tightening a bunch of nuts and bolts.
We are a that works together for the good of the people. When catastrophy strikes, everyone comes together to work out and fix the problems. Why should this issue be any different?
{"commentId":4368560,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"jbpb"}
- 1 vote
#93 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:15 AM EST{"commentId":4368981,"authorDomain":"ronnym"}
Look. This is a terrible thing. I feel very bad that you are being effected by this.
I am a white collar worker. honestly, I would prefer to live in the town I grew up in. But, I moved to where the work is. I did have to retrain in a new industry after being laid off after the .com boom. I'll probably have to do it (one or more times) again before I "exit."
Don't feel sorry for yourself. retrain in a business that is hiring - move to the work - the so called migrant workers that have been coming over to the US were innovative enough to do this, why can't you?
Again, very sorry for this interruption in your working life, but you can overcome this time.
{"commentId":4368981,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ronnym"}
{"commentId":4370972,"authorDomain":"kyle-s"}
The comments about building tanks and jeeps are ridiculous. This isn't about WW3, this is about American manufacturing. The bottom line is that there is a huge lack of long term planning on the part of American business as a whole, especially in the auto industry. Part of that planning not only involved focusing all of their time and money on refining gas guzzling SUV's and trucks (while leaving passenger cars to serve dutifully at Hertz or Avis and not in anyone in their right mind's driveway), but also in paying their employees entirely too much (to include benefits). For that, I blame greed in general, which you can also spell as U-A-W just as quickly as you can spell C-E-O.
I think there was a time and place for unions. It was about 75-100 years ago, when you had 12 year olds working in coal mines and no protection from the government concerning safety or labor laws. Now, the unions basically serve as a machine for greed, and nothing else. There is a reason that the Toyota and Honda factories haven't joined UAW; if you can't see that now, I don't know what to tell you.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't think the average assembly line worker is really to blame for this. For one, of course they are going to back whatever the union says to get higher wages, better medical coverage, and more vehicle discounts. It's just a matter of poor business to think that you can pay these workers 20-30 dollars more per hour than your Japanese counterparts( if you include benfits) while you continue to make vehicles of poor quality and/or vehicles that nobody wants (i.e. $4 dollars per gallon for gas). Only in the last 5 years or so have American companies even made an effort to even TRY to really compete with their Japanese and German rivals (Dodge is still bottom of the barrel), and this is more than just public opinion. Read your reliabailty statistics from any reputable reporting agency; over the last 15 to 20 years, the most reliable cars have been Japanese, and the most unreliable have been American (especially Dodge), with occasional exceptions from VW and Mercedes. That being said, I don't think bad products fall on the shoulders of Joe assembly worker; this is a problem of bad engineering and poor business planning, but unfortunately, the blue collar workers are the ones who suffer most.
The bottom line is this; it's not MY FAULT that you can't run a business right. It's bad enough we subsidize airlines, Amtrak, banks, and now the auto industry... when does it end? If you run your business into the ground, tough s$%t. It goes under, and somebody else who can run a business right will eventually spawn up and fill the void. THAT is called a free market economy, or CAPITALISM, if you will. THERE is your LAND OF OPPRITUNITY, not LAND OF GUARANTEED BUSINESS regardless of how bad you suck. That wuold be called Socialism, and if you want the governement to build your cars... Then God help us all, or anyone who is dumb enough to buy them. Why is it so hard for them to file for bankruptcy like anyone else would have to do, restructure their debt, reorganize their priorities, and move on??? I'm real sorry that millions may lose their jobs, but I'm not that the one that built overpriced SUV's as if fossil fuel will last forever... I'm not the one who made passenger cars like it was a hobby while my competitors made quality vehicles that achieved good fuel economy... I'm not the one who thought it would be a good idea to move jobs to Mexico and Canada while my competitors employed AMERICANS and continue to grow in AMERICA. I'm so sick of hearing the "bailout" as being patriotic while they continue to ship jobs overseas (again, to avoid paying union wages). If they want to screw me out of my tax dollars (which get wasted enough as it is), then screw the big 3 as well.
Remember, the only "NASCAR" that is actually made in America is the Camry...
{"commentId":4370972,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"kyle-s"}
#94 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:41 AM EST{"commentId":4374143,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4375289,"authorDomain":"atbear1177"}
the above is long and rambling and dwells in the "past" which only tells there was/is a problem! learn from history and don't repeat what's not working. you'll always lose w/o optimizing yourself w/all the education you can get. what's thie white/blue collar stuff(a past class title...not needed). technitions(professionals) whether college educated or not ought to be paid for how valuable your skill is(in the market)...in some highly skilled and needed craft it dosen't matter how you were educated ie billgates...etc. soooo ... the above is a lot of smokescreen/whatever!! if most of the article is factual then i don't see why we need to bail the "a-3". i've sat in all the above positions over my seventy years and the harder you've worked to educate yourself to get a chosen "valued" profession...instead of a "job" especially not a valued one...to see your/govt/whoevers' $$ go to a failing us industry(for whatever reason) is not good business sense...a n d ...i don't want to throw away my $$ away.
...configured the way the "a-3" are they w i l l f a i l using allthe bailout $$
with bankruptsey it's on t h e i r hook/$$. no sentimentality or looking backward will save them!! for the workers there's a multitude of remedies for them within sound reason. there is however a penalty for poor planning...believe me ...i know!! sf/70yold professional...aka blue collar
{"commentId":4375289,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"atbear1177"}
#96 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:45 PM EST{"commentId":4381262,"authorDomain":"outertoo"}
When all the unions are gone youwill all have to work for minimum wages.Unions are carrying all you non union doubters because they force nonunion companies to pay prevailing wages.With no competion do you think that will continue? Dream on
{"commentId":4381262,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"outertoo"}
#97 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:52 PM EST{"commentId":4382631,"authorDomain":"teama"}
Several years ago CNN Headline News posted a short news story on their website
listing automotive company contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in
New York and Washington after 9/11. The findings are as follows ...
Ford - $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the
same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER
response team services and office space to displaced government employees.
GM - $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the
same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.
Daimler Chrysler - $10 million to the general fund created to support the children
and other victims of the 9/11 attack.
Harley Davidson - $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept.
Volkswagen - Employees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded
initially with $2 million for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.
Hyundai - $300,000 to the American Red Cross.
Audi - Nothing.
BMW - Nothing.
Daewoo - Nothing.
Fiat - Nothing.
Honda - Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001.
Isuzu - Nothing.
Mitsubishi - Nothing.
Nissan - Nothing.
Porsche - Nothing, press release with condolences via the Porsche website.
Subaru - Nothing.
Suzuki - Nothing.
Toyota - Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001.
Condolences posted on their website.
{"commentId":4382631,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"teama"}
#98 - Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:16 AM EST{"commentId":4383801,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":4389098,"authorDomain":"telmanbill"}
Since when do operating an air gun and putting bolts on a car or operating an air staple gun and placing two staples in a box top constitute “skilled " labor? It is true American factory work has been being shipped out of the U.S. for years now but I think the question should be - why. I believe it is because of the asinine hourly wages the unions and their members are demanding and receiving to perform work tasks that are actually unskilled jobs. As an employer I am not going to pay you $ 30 or even $20 to use an air impact gun to install two nuts on each automobile coming down the assembly line. I might pay you $10 an hour plus health care for performing that job because in reality that is all the task is worth. I don’t care what your union says, that is an “unskilled“ job and that is all it is worth per hour. As an employer why should I pay you $9 an hour to stand on an assembly line and shoot two staples into a box top with an air powered stapler? That doesn’t make any sense at all. I might pay you $5 an hour plus your health care because that is all that task is worth and it is, I don’t care what your union says, an unskilled job.
No, employees are not esnes of their companies nor do I believe they should be treated like serf’s either. I believe all workers should be treated fairly, should have some of their health care paid for by their employers, should be allowed to participate in some form of retirement plan and they should all receive a fair amount of hourly wages relative to the job they are performing. Some of the factors that should determine a workers pay are education, skill and training required to perform the job, complexitiy of the task and etc.
Here is an example of what I am talking about; there are two employees who carry the title of technician. One of them is required to deal with only two wires per circuit, has a piece of paper that prints out telling him/her where to place the wires and does not have to make decisions on their own. The other technician has to deal with multiples of wires, has to know how to read a schematic, has to know color codes and make decision on their own and yet this technician is paid exactly the same amount per hour as the other technician. The question is why is that so and is it fair? The reason it is that way is because the idiotic union says they both carry the title of technicians so therefore they both deserve the same amount of hourly pay and no – it is not fair by any moral or ethical standard. People situations such as these are common practices by unions and their members and that is why factory jobs are being farmed out to other countries. Once the American worker and their unions decide to pop their heads out of their rear ends maybe the jobs will come back to us.
{"commentId":4389098,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"telmanbill"}
- 1 vote
#100 - Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:11 PM EST{"commentId":4390099,"authorDomain":"ralsum"}
If we bail out the big 3 we sould require them to do what Lexus already does. No human touches or assembles the vehicle from the beginning to end. It is all done by automation. The only jobs in the assembly plants are maintenance people for the automation. These jobs are truly "skilled". Productivity and especially quality will go up dramatically.
Unions GO HOME
{"commentId":4390099,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"ralsum"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4390449,"authorDomain":"georginakl"}
Check Consumer Reports car reviews; American label cars pull up the rear in quality.
I had two Chevys that died before their time even though I followed the maintenance recommendations. I'm a happy Civic owner now.
Why are foreign label cars better, even if they're built in America? American employees build them in America at factories owned by Japanese, and they are compensated less. How can this be?
Here's why - unions are great for enforcing labor laws, ensuring equitable nonabusive treatment, and safe conditions but when they negotiate compensation above what the market will bear, that's the beginning of the end. Simple economics.
Jobs that have any chance of staying power today:
- pay market-based wages
- are employ-at-will, not contractual
- require workers to mostly self-fund their retirements and contribute more to their health care costs
- require tangible demonstration of performance if the worker wants to continue at the job, get raises a/o bonuses, get promoted, etc.
- require workers to continually re-educate themselves, at their own cost (fully or partially) on their own time (fully or partially)
Public sector workers are at risk too. Civil servants and union workers cannot continue to outearn and underperform private sector workers and not expect severe public backlash on issues like tax increases and autos that cost more but are of inferior quality.
Remember - private sector, public sector and unionized workers live together as neighbors - when some neighbors see other neighbors getting far more while working far less and with strong security for earning a livelihood - they equalize the unfair treatment at the voting machines and with their purchase choices. This is democracy; this is capitalism.
{"commentId":4390449,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"georginakl"}
#101 - Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:35 PM EST{"commentId":4393071,"authorDomain":"wingod"}
It's not just the compensation issue, it is workplace rules. For example the dockworkers on the West coast have fought automation tooth and nail and what happened? The shipping companies put a highly automated shipping terminal in Mexico and ship the containers across the border.
In the auto factories the unions have resisted productivity enhancing automation and the more they do this the more they fall behind in the unit cost and in quality.
{"commentId":4393071,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"wingod"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4394151,"authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
When the union had more power, they could have looked ahead to see what changes were inevitable. Then started devising a means to work with management to phase in those changes, such as more automation and compensation packages that were more competitive with their rivals. It's called compromise, and in the long run they would have been far better off, so would the company.
Now it's going to happen like an avalanche, and they will be hurt far worse. I'm sorry for them to see it happen this way, and I hope the union membership will be asking some hard questions of the union 'leadership'.
{"commentId":4394151,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"quinnwr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4407936,"authorDomain":"firehawka1"}
I believe American cars are just as good or better than anything the foreign companies make, in fact all I've ever owned are GM cars. I am totally against the bailout though, all you have to look at is the stubborn union tactics for a reason. Face it guys, the company's going down the drain, you either have to give up some of your pay or you're out of a job. Last time I checked that's the way capitalism is supposed to work. I own my own business and we're not doing as well lately and guess what the first thing I had to sacrifice was- some of my pay. Unions have done this bull@!$%# before- remember Eastern Airlines?
{"commentId":4407936,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"firehawka1"}
#102 - Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:34 PM EST{"commentId":4410097,"authorDomain":"plasticman-1-1999"}
The way I look at is what kind of job are these people gonna find in the area they live in with The skills they have ?? Walmart, Fast food ? Give me a break they are unskilled labor they should have taken the pay cut, I want none of my hard earned tax money going to support them, I won't buy any of the cars they make either I'm fed up with all of the problems I have had in the past,I'm just glad they don't build boats ( They sink) or Planes (they crash) They seem to have problems building stuff that stays on hard ground.
{"commentId":4410097,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"plasticman-1-1999"}
#103 - Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:17 PM EST{"commentId":4410208,"authorDomain":"PartysOver"}
{"commentId":5250602,"authorDomain":"Peter17"}
I believe I read last week that the U.S. still has the largest manufacturing sector in the world. There has been a shift, however, from low-skilled to highly trained, highly educated workers. Those more highly trained workers are far less likely to feel that they need union representation.
The U.S. automotive industry is a dinosaur trying to operate with the same philosophy they used in the 1950s and 1960s. All companies, manufacturing, info tech, etc. must innovate and modernize to continue to be successful. There are many manufacturing companies in our country who continue to be successful decade after decade. The automakers have nobody to blame but themselves.
{"commentId":5250602,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"Peter17"}
#105 - Sun Feb 8, 2009 4:48 PM EST{"commentId":6472569,"authorDomain":"vecchio-richard"}
I, for one do not look down on manufacturing workers. That being said, any business that is not competitive should be allowed to fail. In the above comments I see blame placed on government, unions, management etc. Personally, I don't care who is to blame. The fact of the matter is that Detroit automakers are having great difficulty producing quality automobiles at a competitive cost and price. I don't buy the fear mongering that millions of jobs will be lost. The market will determine the number and type of vehicle sold. This means that jobs will be lost regardless of government action. Bankruptcy is the only answer. It will allow restructuring. I believe that the Detroit automakers will continue to produce automobiles after restructuring but the resulting companies will be able to compete with other automakers both foreign and domestic. The administration needs to stay out of it and allow restructuring instead of propping up a failed business model with taxpayer funds.
{"commentId":6472569,"threadId":"438645","contentId":"2192991","authorDomain":"vecchio-richard"}
#106 - Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:54 AM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"438645","isPrivate":false}
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