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Cuba looks for hints of ‘change’ from Obama

Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:24 PM EST
technology, obama, only-on-msnbc-com, cuba, focus-on-cuba, fidel-castro, havana, embargo, cubans, cuban-americans, as-cuba
msnbc.com News — Andrea Mitchell, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com
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<p>Women walk past a graffiti celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution in Havana December 30, 2008.  Cuba will celebrate the 50th anniversary of the revolution that brought Fidel Castro to power on January 1, 1959, this week. REUTERS/Enrique De La Osa (CUBA)</p>

Women walk past a graffiti celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution in Havana December 30, 2008. Cuba will celebrate the 50th anniversary of the revolution that brought Fidel Castro to power on January 1, 1959, this week. REUTERS/Enrique De La Osa (CUBA)

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— WASHINGTON — As Cuba marks the 50th anniversary of its Communist revolution this week, it is looking to Washington and wondering how Barack Obama, the 11th U.S. president to face the Castro regime, will change the stormy relationship with Havana.

On Jan. 1, 1959, revolutionaries led by Fidel Castro overthrew the U.S.-backed government of President Fulgencio Batista.

Within years, President John F. Kennedy imposed the economic embargo that has been the framework for the U.S. relationship with Cuba ever since.

Cuba has survived for half a century by relying on its friends — first, the Soviet Union, now Venezuela, and by blaming the U.S. embargo for its ills. U.S. presidents in both political parties have played into the Cuban narrative.

Today, Havana is looking north for any hint of an overture from the incoming Obama administration, and south toward Venezuela, whose billions in aid during the years of high oil prices — along with easy credit from Russia, Iran and China — have helped sustain the island's beleaguered economy.

But how much longer can Cuba rely on its allies for financial support as oil prices tumble?

Now a new American president's ideas for the relationship will be tested. What happens next will depend on Obama — and on the agility and intentions of his counterpart, thirty years his senior, Cuban President Raul Castro.

Overtures from a new Castro leader?
While 82-year-old Fidel Castro still writes on any and all subjects for the Communist Party daily, his 77-year-old brother Raul is clearly in charge. Until now, Raul has not made any bold moves.

But recently, he signaled interest in a dialogue with the U.S., suggesting the possibility of a prisoner exchange — focusing on five Cubans viewed by Havana as heroes, but imprisoned in the U.S. as spies. For its part, Washington is keenly interested in any sign that Cuba will release scores of political prisoners, writers and other dissidents jailed by Fidel Castro during a crackdown nearly six years ago.

As with all diplomacy, progress toward an easing of tensions will require timing, reciprocity — and mutual deniability. The Cubans are insisting on negotiations with no preconditions. The U.S. side has long demanded action on human rights before any easing of trade or travel restrictions.

The stalemate has suffered, or benefited, depending on your point of view, from not-so benign neglect: While the embargo is central to all policy discussions in Cuba, since 9/11 and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Cuba has become, at most, a minor irritant to Bush policymakers.

Cuba looking for ‘change,’ too
Over the past decade, I've visited Cuba frequently as a journalist — one of the few professions still permitted under the Bush administration's tightened restrictions to travel freely to the island.

Even during periods of extreme strain in the relationship, such as the protests over the case of Elian Gonzalez in 1999, I've found that average Cubans are keenly interested in learning everything they can about the United States. Most want to clear away the tangled underbrush of misunderstandings that have grown between the two nations over the course of a half-century. That curiosity about the United States has only increased as more and more Cubans gain access to the Internet through bootlegged technology. 

But to many on both sides, it seems as though every step forward — increased tourism years ago, grain deals between Midwestern farmers and Cuban agriculture officials, various cultural exchanges — was met with some deliberate or unintended obstacle put forward by one or both of the two governments.

This despite the fact that observers on the island and in the U.S. believe that much could be shared between the neighbors if some level of dialogue were restored. Such progress could include, but not be limited to, potentially productive agreements on migration, drug interdiction, health care, and hurricane relief.

After a series of devastating hurricanes and the fallout from the deepening global recession, Cuba would obviously benefit greatly from trade with its closest neighbor.

Cuban officials insist they want to engage, and are only awaiting a signal from the new American president if he attends, as is expected, a scheduled Latin American summit in Trinidad in April.

Will an Obama administration change course?
Will Obama revisit Cuban policy so early in his new administration? Arguably, he faces many more critical challenges in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, and now Gaza.

But for the United States, the embargo has become a double-edged sword. At the United Nations in October, the General Assembly voted once again for a resolution urging the United States to repeal its trade embargo against Cuba, as it has for 17 years in a row.

The tally in favor of Havana was overwhelming, 185 countries to 3. Only Israel and Palau joined the U.S. in supporting the 47-year-old embargo. Obama's transition team is being told that easing the Cuba policy would be a quick way to win friends in this hemisphere.

And the political calculus in the U.S. is no longer predictable. In Florida, for instance, younger Cuban-Americans are less resistant than their parents and grandparents to the idea of restored relations. Even a slight easing of Bush administration restrictions on travel and remittances to Cuba would be popular among many Cuban-Americans. 

Nothing will be done in Havana or Washington without intense focus on the political ramifications. Obama's party now sees a political opening in Florida in 2010, with the announced retirement of Senator Mel Martinez. In vying for the open seat, Democrats could even be facing a popular former governor named Bush — Jeb Bush — who is strongly anti-Castro, and potentially the GOP's best candidate.

Watching how their governments handle the delicate dance over future relations will be Cuban-Americans, who have had an exaggerated influence over U.S. policy in the past, as well as the Cubans, who have been waiting and waiting — for 50 years.

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doc of va.

its been so long ago get over it ,move on forget the past.

  • 7 votes
#1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:59 PM EST
Tony Helland

I agree...what has Cuba ever done to us to warrent this stupid embargo??? Hell we invaded Viet Nam, got our asses kicked and then turned around and gave the country prime trade status...we can go there as tourists!! why not Cuba?? it was a vibrant and colorful place before we sponsered the bay of pigs debacle...many Americans lost hundreds of thousands of dollars that they had invested in casinos down there. We need to let them get bak on their feet and a resort destination would be perfect!!!!

  • 8 votes
#1.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:35 PM EST
Fred G. from N.C.Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

Tony you ignorant f== a bunch of dirt bag boomers caused us to abandon Viet Nam.Over a million people were murdered as a result but our lame press won't admit that.It (Cuba)was a country where any one thought to disagree with Fidel was executed before the Bay of Pigs and after.Get that straight ,dumbass.The money they lost was because the commies siezed it.

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:58 PM EST
h2o-393184

I agree.  Enough is enough.  Let the embargo end. 

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:54 PM EST
rcdj

I concour with your views here .

This would be a major act by am Obama admin.

This would prove weather he is for change

or still the same old same old thing.

END THIS EMBARGO NOW!

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:41 PM EST
Robert Bowen-791894

Sometimes it takes a step back to fully understand what has taken place over fifty years of Castro's rule. He has been fed money by other regime's for years. Cuba has never developed any sort of viable economy at all. Jobs, development and leadership are where they were 40 years ago from his so called "reveloution". Communism in no way works at all. Now youwant to end as you call it this "stupid" blockade. I am 53 years old and this man on my 6Th birthday had nuclear missiles pointed at my back yard. Imagine your 6 year old children with missiles pointed at their back yard. Makes you think a bit. I wonder if Hitler were alive today and in power of Germany would we forgive him fifty later for the atrocities. I think not. Let Castro and his controlling brother die and we can talk about renewing relations with Cuba.

    #1.5 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:18 PM EST
    Tony Helland

    Fred I am sorry that U can't seem to get your point across with out name calling and slinging insults!!!! and U missed the point about Viet Nam yes they did bad things after we left an killed many many folks but we still went back and kissed their azzes!!!!

    the only thing cuba did was crush the bay of pigs invasion ...and who knows if we had not blockaded them and slapped an embargo on them we might have normalized relations with them and the missle crises might never had happened!!!!

    • 4 votes
    #1.6 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:29 PM EST
    jazzie2010

    I totally agree with you Tony.

    • 1 vote
    #1.7 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:56 PM EST
    joe-295829

    We lost in Vietnam?  Ohh yea after the press reported nothing  but bad news for 8 yrs.. Every negative story they could come up with.. No good news,, No postiive Stories.. Hmm soungs familiar.. Hell it was the Demos pushing Nixon to end it.. The press is the evil here.. MSNBC and NBC are so out of it that they are stooping to new lows.. I dont care if we end the embargo with Cuba.. but atleast way till Castro dies so he cant claim it as a victory..

    • 3 votes
    #1.8 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:53 AM EST
    Louis J

    If Bush can claim Iraq as a victory, Castro should be able to claim an end to 50 years of US idiocy as a victory. Has our embargo brought one ounce of change to Cuba?

    It is also interesting to note that while we decry Castros' treatment of political prisoners and the abuses of human rights, we set up a detention center at Gitmo so we could avoid giving those same rights to our political prisoners.

    • 3 votes
    #1.9 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:35 PM EST
    superlogiDeleted
    icepick151

    The fact that the country is communist is no justification for this embargo.  When it comes to brutal governments and violations of human rights, Cuba is not alone.  Look at Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. and you will find comparable violations of human rights.  Ironically, these governments have the full support of the United States government because they allow US businesses in to exploit their impoverished labor force.

    Oh and by the way, look at the corrolation between the level of human rights violations in Latin American countries and the number of SOA graduates in each country and you will find that the more military involvement the United States has these countries the higher the oppression and violence.

    If you look at the history of United States foreign policy (especially in Latin America) you'll see that we have no problem with violent dictators just as long as they aren't leftist leaning (which poses a threat to our economic exploitation of the region).  We have had no problem undermining democratically elected officials (left-leaning of course) in favor of fascist dictatorship which maintained power through state-sponsored terrorism and iron-fist rule.  To maintain this embargo further tarnishes and de-legitimizes the United States government and through it the people of the US.

    • 3 votes
    #1.11 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:32 PM EST
    tyler

    Tony you ignorant f==

    - suspended for a day. Make a point without name-calling, Fred G. from N.C.

    • 3 votes
    #1.12 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:05 PM EST
    katzgar-420703

    This thread is bizarre.  Fred expressed his frustration a bit overboard but only because Tony blatantly fabricates and distorts history.  Amazing. 

      #1.13 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:07 PM EST
      icepick151

      please provide examples katzgar

      • 2 votes
      #1.14 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:09 PM EST
      lorent

      The embargo should stay because socialism is stupid.  If their system is so good, it should be able to stand on its own two feet without the US economy propping it up.  Giving and possibly letting them move forward economically would only embolden idiots here who think socialism is an acceptable way to run things.  If socialism is the way to do it, make the country a democracy and let the people there decide how to run things rather than having a dictatorship.  I am fine with letting socialism rot on Cuba as an example to anyone who thinks that is the way the world should be operated.

      • 3 votes
      #1.15 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 3:45 PM EST
      icepick151

      If the embargo is maintained then we will never know if socialism can be affective because it wasn't given a level playing field on which to compete.  By changing the terms of the game (ie isolating Cuba from a significant and invaluable market) we are essentially dooming it to failure without ever allowing it to show its merits.

      Using your logic, the United States would be able to stand on its own if it was forcibly isolated from the global economy.  If you understood the fundamentals of economic give and take you'd recognize the impossibilty of this reality.  Countries need other countries, markets need other markets in order to be successful. 

      Isolating Cuba to the point that it isn't able to succeed economically does not prove that their system in unviable.  It only proves that our fear of percieved threats from a political/economic ideology overshadows our ability to rationally analyze the realities of the situation.

      "I am fine with letting socialism rot on Cuba as an example to anyone who thinks that is the way the world should be operated."

      So you're advocating the idea that by helping to bring down a political system we then prove that the system didn't work?   Interesting logic...or lack thereof.

      • 2 votes
      #1.16 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:24 PM EST
      trco

      icepick,

      name one communist, or for that matter, socialist country which ever prospered under any circumstance. don't blame the US for the failure of cuba. blame the person who is the dictator there - fidel castro.

      cuba is one of the last communist countries left on earth. castro is evil. he labeled Catholics and Protestants as social scum and forced lay and clergy into labor camps under inhumane conditions. Christians are stil imprisoned and churches burned.

      if anyone can say castro does nothing wrong then you are no better than he is.

      you communist sympathizers need to move to a country which has you form of gov - please.

        #1.17 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 8:36 PM EST
        icepick151

        One successful socialist country?  Chile under President Allende.  At least until the Unites States government helped the right-wing military overthrow his democratically elected government.  And who did we then support as the head of that country?  The fascist dictator Pinochet.  You must be proud.

        You obviously have not gained the understanding of the idea that just because a person criticizes the actions of their government or points out its shortcomings and hypocrisies, it does not mean they hold hatred towards it.  I love my country enough to want to make it better an not settle for what it currently is.

        For you to criticize the oppressive actions of the Cuban government meawhile ommitting the atrocities committed by the United States is completely hypocritical and disengenuous; it also shows your lack of knowledge regarding the histories of not only the United States but also the rest of the western hemisphere.

        Also I did not blame the United States for the shortcomings of the Cuban government, merely pointed out that the US embargo has had an undeniable impact on the country's ability to become economically solvent.  This is undeniable.

        • 1 vote
        #1.18 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 12:01 AM EST
        lorent

        Our economy is intertwined with the world markets, so eliminating that instantly would obviously be catastrophic, but it didn't need to be the way it is.  Capitalism would have led to an effective economy anyhow.  Socialism would not.

        Cuba has plenty of people to trade with.  If it was a viable system, it would have produced results.  It didn't.  If exposure to the US led to success there, it wouldn't show that socialism works, it would simply show that socialism can be a successful parasite of of capitalism.

        Nothing but Cuba is stopping Cuba from working.  We are not bringing it down.  We are simply not propping it up.  If it needs propping up, then it is a failure.

          #1.19 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 2:30 AM EST
          jedz

          Cuba is nothing more than a basket case which sucked the coffers of the Soviet Union dry for 30 years and is now doing the same to Venezuela. Do we need to make Cuba our next 50 billion toxic asset?

          Why should America establish economic ties with Cuba and make the american taxpayer pay for the bailout of 11million Cubans? Why should the american taxpayer be made responsible for such welfare load?

          Both Cuba and Venezuela are good friends, our political adversaries and sworn enemies; so why should we bail Cuba out and let Venezuela's wealth harm our interests somewhere else?

            #1.20 - Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:20 PM EDT
            Reply
            happy-315907

            get the real estate.  make casino resorts affordable for tourists.  it'll work.  the music, food, weather, parties, beaches, etc.  it will generate lots and lots of money.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:18 PM EST
            Burlap Mudflap

            Raul is a two-bit tyrant like his brother...but even he is getting tired of wearing Russian shoes.

            Obama can have Hillary buy this smuck off for chump change, you-betcha.

            • 1 vote
            #2.1 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:19 AM EST
            icepick151

            ...and then we can go in and re-create the stratified economic, social, and political realities of the Cuban people that existed during the US sponsored Batista regime...and all for the benifit of the American economy and business interests.  That sounds fantastic...coming from the "land of the free and home of the brave."

            • 1 vote
            #2.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:40 PM EST
            lorent

            Just leave socialism to rot where it sits.  They aren't hungry.  They have healthcare.  They aren't "suffering" except from lack of the benefits of a system that actually works to motivate people rather than one that encourages everyone to sit on their asses and wait for the government to do everything for them.  What business is it to the UN who we decide to do business with anyhow?

              #2.3 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 3:50 PM EST
              icepick151

              and you pointing out the fact that everyone in cuba has healthcare to give an example of how their system isn't one that "actually works?"  when referencing a system "that actually works" i assume you mean the United States; a country where vast numbers of the population do not have access to effective healthcare (at least not without accumulating massive amounts of debt and possibly losing personal property).

              The rotting system you describe is able to feed and provide health care to every one of its citizens, can we say the same about the US system?

              • 1 vote
              #2.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:12 PM EST
              icepick151

              Lorent: What business is it to the UN who we decide to do business with anyhow?

              We use the UN to throw our weight around and influence countries to go in directions that we view as beneficial.  But when the UN tries to do the same to us we flip out and decry this violation of our sovereignty and that they should mind their own business.

              As a nation, our views of the UN is completely hypocritical because we value it when we can exploit it to get our way, and then condemn it if it makes a decision that benefits others and not us.

              • 1 vote
              #2.5 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:34 PM EST
              trco

              icepick,

              have you ever done any research on cuba???

              have you ever seen what the common man gets for healthcare???

              if you feel the need for a dictator to take care of your sorry carcass then pack your bags brother and get your ass over there

                #2.6 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 8:39 PM EST
                icepick151

                Actually I've done extensive research on Cuba (indeed, one of my undergraduate degree's focuses on Latin America) and know for a fact that the country's medical training program is stellar.  In fact, trained doctors and nurses are one of Cuba's largest exports to other Latin American countries.

                As far as your comment asserting that I'm advocating dictatorship, please read my previous comment  again.  And i don't need anyone to take care of my "sorry carcass" i do just fine on my own.  Who are you to be so judgemental and where did you come by the level self-righteousness that allows you to justify telling anyone to "pack your bags?"  You apparently haven't come to terms with the idea that although someone may criticize their country and strive for it to be better, it does not mean they have hatred for their country.

                I suggest you take come reading comprehension classes there, brother before you make more ignorant and misguided statements that completely takes the posts you're responding to out of context.  It makes you look like an ass.

                • 2 votes
                #2.7 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 10:59 PM EST
                lorent

                If all their system needs to provide are the basics, and they are getting them, why do they need the US economy to propt them up?

                I don't care if they all have healthcare or not.  Certainly there are problems with our healthcare system - primarily that people are given the option to devote part of their incomes to health insurance but hospitals aren't given the option to not provide services.  Too many people are irresponsible.  Health insurance shouldn't be an option. 

                The point is that socialism does not recognize that humans need motivation to act.  Socialist thinking is based on the idea that you can get people to act altruistically rather than for one's individual interest.  It doesn't work. 

                The idea of imposing economic sanctions on countries is common.  But the idea that you can force a country to engage in commerce with somebody they don't want to seems immoral to me.  I don't care if you don't like the UN or how we use it to try to forward our agenda.  I still say the UN has no business telling anyone who the MUST do business with!

                  #2.8 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 2:39 AM EST
                  Reply
                  sk-ky-3441

                  The first thing our new President should change is the "wet foot/dry foot" law.   This ridiculous law causes Cubans to take dire risks with their lives & sometimes their children's lives.  And it certainly isn't like Florida needs anymore Cuban immigrants! 

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#3 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:20 PM EST
                  Volker Hildebrandt

                  Florida needs more Cuban immigrants! Until there is standing room only! Lets ruin the undeservedly good life of Americans!

                  • 1 vote
                  #3.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:08 PM EST
                  joe-295829

                  Hell what is one more hispanic.. At least the cubans are proud to be here..

                  • 3 votes
                  #3.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:54 AM EST
                  RyanSells

                  Since I live in FL, I will be able to give an honest opinion. Cubans come to florida, and they migrate over to Miami. If you have been there you will understand, they dont speak english and get upset with you if YOU, who speaks English, does not understand spanish. Its horrid over there, never recommend it for anyone. If you plan on going to FL stay away from Miami.

                  • 1 vote
                  #3.3 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:59 AM EST
                  DD50

                  End the embargo, end the "you manage to get here you can stay" mindset.  Maybe it would be win-win, and a bunch of them would head home. They would probably go back and forth with special consideration - like Puerto Ricans do now.  (Those folks that voted down being the 51st state.)

                  Good luck though, I've heard that the old timers, very bitter over losing everything when fleeing, become quite vocal if there is talk of lifting the embargo.

                    #3.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:56 PM EST
                    JJ In Florida

                    sk-ky,

                    I agree with you on this law.  It is a complete joke.  Let me explain how it works.

                    The Cubans do not take that many risks, except for the ones without help from Miami.  You see, the latest is that smugglers steal speed boats in South Florida.  Go to Cuba and pickup a bunch of Cubans that have paid for the smuggling.  Then, take them to the Yucatan peninsula into Mexico.  The authorities in Yucatan have run out of space to park the confiscated speed boats with US registrations.  Then, the smuggle the Cubans across into the US border.

                    If you do not like to get your feet wet, it will cost you about $10,000.  With this money, they pay for fake papers and bribes to claim that your loved one in Cuba has a secure job in Mexico.  Once in Mexico, the rest of the money will pay for a smuggler to get you across the border.  Once on the US side, your family is there waiting to pick you up and drive you to Florida.  Then, they drop the illegal Cuban in a beach somewhere in South Florida with a cell phone.  The illegal calls 911, which makes the police show up and take you to Krome Detention Center.  A few hours later, your family is "surprised" of your arrival and somehow just happens to be outside waiting for you.

                    • 1 vote
                    #3.5 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 4:53 AM EST
                    Reply
                    rich-510206

                    Fifty years of this insanity is enough.  We are operating against out best interests for a few thousand votes of rich republicans in Miami.  Forget them and get on with recognizing Cuba and turning it into a trading partner and vacation island.  Those folks are going to votes for republicans anyway, so what difference does it make?

                    • 7 votes
                    Reply#4 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:20 PM EST
                    Stephen-256262

                    You are so right, we are the only Country in the world were the government tells you that if you go to Cuba and come back, you will be arested. Canadians and Europeans all go to Cuba for vacations, they all like it there, have no problems it all. It is plain stupid what we are doing.

                    • 3 votes
                    #4.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:57 PM EST
                    gus-724628

                    You are nuts those rich Rep you refer to would like very much to go to Cuba on vacation.

                    • 1 vote
                    #4.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:26 PM EST
                    h2o-393184

                    Cuba is there an no economic embargo can change that.  It is time we take our head out of the sand and recognize that.

                    • 2 votes
                    #4.3 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:58 PM EST
                    Volker Hildebrandt

                    Does anybody remember that Fidel Castro overthrew one of the vilest and corruptest and oppressive dictators of our times? The common people lived in misery. That's why he and his movement is still popular. Our idiotic government should have been on his side when he expropriated the landowners that were in cahouts with Battista and allowing him to try some socialism. All that accursed embargo did and is doing is driving the people of Cuba into poverty!

                    • 3 votes
                    #4.4 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:14 PM EST
                    freedom-372362

                    Sure volker, just goes to show that replacing one corrupt oppressive dictator didnt change much for the average Cuban. Send the Castros to Guantanomo or something, they sure scammed Cuba.

                      #4.5 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:05 PM EST
                      Barry-NJ

                      Rich,

                      I believe that there should be three preconditions for normalizing relations with Cuba:

                      1)  Release of political prisoners

                      2)  Compensation of American individuals and companies for property seized by Castro after the revolution

                      3)  Removal of any Russian forces, listening posts, etc... from the island

                      • 2 votes
                      #4.6 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:30 AM EST
                      rob-bot214

                      Why should there be preconditions? Do you see preconditions like you suggest applied to China, Russia, Viet Nam? The only reason there was ever an embargo is because we could afford to ignore them, and the refugees in Florida had a lot of votes. We didn't need to trade with them, but they did need our trade, so it was a cheap easy way to get back at that one communist country. The others, like Russia and China, we need their trade, and they are too big to intimidate economically so we overlook their human rights abuses. The embargo is nothing but the tactics of a bully.

                      • 2 votes
                      #4.7 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:59 PM EST
                      lorent

                      Ok, they tried socialism.  It failed.  Give the people the power to choose their own future and maybe we can talk.  Otherwise, they can sit and go nowhere. 

                        #4.8 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 3:54 PM EST
                        JJ In Florida

                        Volker,  it is true that Batista was pretty bad. 

                        However, the reason why it is still popular is because dissidents are placed in jail.  These are the political prisoners.  If a dissident movement starts a rally, all of a sudden, a group of so called "people's force" will show up and stop the rally.  All of a sudden, the organizers will find themselves in jail.  These "people's force" are really government forces without uniforms cracking down on any group that might destabilize the current regime.  Since they do not have uniforms, no one can claim that they are really government forces, but all the Cubans that I have talked to know it without a doubt.

                        Barry,

                        On your precondition #2 for compensation to American families and companies, Cuba already offered many years ago to pay for lands and properties seized.  All other countries took the money except the US.  If the US takes the offer, they are recognizing the Castro regime as the official government of the island, which is something the US did not want to recognize at the time.

                        Rob-bot214,

                        We never really had preconditions with Russia and China.  They are too big and we need them.  China even has a human rights record as bad or worst than Cuba, but we need their cheap labor, so we do business with them.  On Vietnam's case, the list of preconditions was extensive.  The preconditions were set by the Clinton administration.  Vietnam managed to comply with all of them just at the beginning of the Bush administration, which then stated that before they would normalize relations, the Bush administration would review the conditions and maybe issue a few extra ones before the relations would be re-established.  Shortly after, the US ambassador to Vietnam quit. 

                        • 1 vote
                        #4.9 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 5:26 AM EST
                        Reply
                        clarke ong

                        We need to drop the embargo and be there for these people if they ASK for help.

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#5 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:23 PM EST
                        h2o-393184

                        I agree with dropping the embargo.  As far as giiving aid we need to remember that charity begins at home.  There are still displaced Katrina victims we need to aid.

                        • 3 votes
                        #5.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:00 PM EST
                        One really fed up boomer

                        You all seem to forget Cuba offered aide to Katrina victims in the form of Dr's and medical care, and we turned them down. Seems like that was a step in the right direction. Your are doing a heck of a job, Bush!

                        • 2 votes
                        #5.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:53 PM EST
                        txmom32

                        ORFUB...You forget the US offered aid to Cuba after the last big wave and they refused it. The only thing they wanted was for the embargo to be lifted.

                        The Castro Brothers are dedicated to Communism. They are working with a 50 year track record of "success" for their experiment. They have aligned themselves with every outspoken faction against the United States that they can. They continue to hold political prisoners who can do them no harm. They continue to oppress those who do not agree with them. They have shown themselves to be all powerful and rule with an iron fist.

                        Why should we interfere with their Government by supporting it with goods by lifting the embargo. They have allies. We certainly have not deprived them of anything that they cannot get from Russia, China, Venezuela or Iran or any other Government in the UN. Why must America play along and with no pre-condition of them releasing the Political Prisoners they are holding. The have lived a 50 year existence without the need for America, our goods or our policies. They stand by the success of their Communist lifestyle. Let them be. We don't need to interfere there are more issues in the world than feeding this corrupt regime.

                        • 4 votes
                        #5.3 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:34 AM EST
                        kjhuggard

                        We can't forget that after Hurricane Katrina Cuba offered to send doctors to Louisiana to help with the disaster and of course they were turned down too.

                        As far as dealing with Communist nations, China is far more detrimental to our success in the world than Cuba and they have been Communist much longer than Cuba. 

                        We could likely export far more to them than they would export to us and it would open up the tourism industry in Cuba to the point where everyone could have a decent job and lets face it, Communist or not, working in a high class hotel that caters to American tourists would have to be highly desirable.

                        I don't think we can look at the fact that they have survived fifty years without our goods as a good thing, it surely must have impacted our economy negatively to some extent.

                        I hope Mr. Obama lifts the embargo and these people can move on with their lives.

                        The Romans are proof that civilizations change and not always for the better.

                        • 1 vote
                        #5.4 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 2:52 AM EST
                        salsajoe

                        everyone blames the embargo but all the embargo does is stop the trading of most goods with the USA. Fidel can buy anything sold in THE USA elsewhere like Canada if he chooses but Castro uses the embargo topic to fool so many of you its pathetic.Wake up people its all a ploy to make life easier for himself. As it is the USA trades some commodities now with Cuba but i bet most of you didn't know that. Fidel and not the USA is the one who refuses to stop the embargo by not allowing reforms it is he ,who through his selfishness and refusal to change  has brought this upon his people . Fidel plays the victim and so many of you suckers take it hook line and sinker. 

                        • 1 vote
                        #5.5 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 9:18 AM EST
                        Reply
                        Tired of Criminals

                        We should make them give us Miami back. Not that we have an illegal alien problem or anything like that, but there are more Cubans in Florida than Cuba.

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#6 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:26 PM EST
                        Perfection-552956

                        Ignorance is bliss. The less you know the stronger an opinion you have. At the risk of lowering myself to the level of the amalgamation of ignoramus in this forum, let me clear just a couple of things.

                        • The Bay of Pigs was only a "debacle" because, after training, arming, and feeding Cuban nationals, the Kennedy administration abandoned the very soldiers they trained on enemy territory. The Kennedy administration didn't even supply air support or even ammunition to those who landed in the rocky shore.
                        • The U.S. is NOT the only country who won't allow leisure travel to Cuba. Half the countries in the "old" USSR won't allow leisure travel there, as well as 3/4 of the African continent. Wonder why? The fact that more countries don't have travel restrictions to Cuba, is simply because they are too poor or there's no tourist interest in flying to a communist country.
                        • "There are more Cubans in Florida than Cuba" There you might be half right. There are no Cubans left in Cuba, It's full of Africans that Castro enslaved when he exported his guerrillas to Angola an other countries in his plan to "dominate the world" This maniac (Castro) must've watch too many cartoons while he was high on dope.
                        • The tourism in Cuba, much like that of Vietnam, and Thailand is based mainly on its prostitution. Must go there to see young Cuban girls to satisfy the urges they can't fulfill at home. Apparently they 14 year old Cuban prostitutes are much cheaper than the 28 year old in the U.S.

                        The list could go on and on, but I doubt most of the bloggers in this forum can retain the attention for more than 30 seconds, so why bother. Do yourselves a favor, read some history books before you tap away at the keyboard, you're embarrassing yourselves.

                        • 5 votes
                        #6.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:36 PM EST
                        DEATHNELL J.

                        Perfection-552956-DITTO, an actual-factual blogger. But as the son of Cuban imigarnts, I have to say, the embargo that was supposed to "sqeeze"Castro out of power, has only solidified his grip on the oppressed Cuban people. The government higher-ups DON'T GO WITHOUT (anything)... But the rest of the population, live in abject poverty(the part of Cuba they don't want you to see). Raul Castro was Fidels' enforcer (the man behind the scene) so his takeover as DICTATOR is simply a fresh coat fo paint on an old car. MAKE NO MISTAKE-the Cuban government would L-O-V-E to have better relations with the U.S.(lots of clout there!) but it will be the Cuban people that would benefit most. Look what happened to China when they got a taste of good ole American CAPITALISM.... Need I say more, what's your opinion? 

                        • 3 votes
                        #6.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:01 PM EST
                        DEATHNELL J.

                        whoops, I forgot to put the "u" in sq-u-eeze!!

                          #6.3 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:28 PM EST
                          h2o-393184

                          I hope there are not many people who think like that.

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.4 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:51 PM EST
                          DEATHNELL J.

                          Uh, think like what?

                            #6.5 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:29 PM EST
                            txmom32

                            DethnellJ...I see your point but, haven't we learned yet that you cannot export Democracy or Capitalism? If the Cuban people are being crushed under Castro they need to take their country back. We can no more offer them what we have tried to impose on Iraq. If the people will not fight for their own interest they they are the subject to what their leaders impose upon them.

                            If Cuba wants the Castro's gone let them take care of their business at home. We don't need a dog in that fight and we certainly do not need to support the regime by lifting the embargo. Let them go to their allies.

                            • 5 votes
                            #6.6 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:13 AM EST
                            DEATHNELL J.

                            Hi txmom32, unfortunately if it were that simple, it would've happened already. I'll try to explaine... In a totalitarian communist system, in order for it to work effectively is #1, you "must" have a good system of terror so as to control any thoughts or actions against the system; public beatings, excecutions, disappearences, mutilations, just to name a few.. Then there's the control of "food"(a basic need for human survival) the use of hunger, rationing, shortage claims, theft(very big in Cuba) and the best one; CHILDREN, the majority of people in Cuba have families, children serve 3 very effective purposes #1 without enough food, and your child is hungry daily, your" #1 priority" is to find a way to feed the child, # 2 the state in order to control unruly citizens, will use family members and especialy children to keep you in line(even if your in prison), #3 kids are indoctrinated to the communist system (BRAIN WASHED) at a very early age, they are taught that the state is their mother and father and even to turn on their parents (for the good of the state). Those are only a few very small examples. Students of Castro unclude: Sadam Husein, Kadafi, Kim Yong Il, Hugo Chaves, nobody there has risen up against them, why? Because the've learned to perfect their sysytem of oppression. Please look up the communist manifesto by Carl Marx, Cuban History-the Castro years just to name a couple, let the snow ball roll from there if you want... Please don't get me wrong, the last thing we need (The USA) is ANOTHER COUNTRY'S BURDEN, but letting the Cuban people have a "taste" of what a free society is, could turn things around for them.     

                              #6.7 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:17 PM EST
                              DEATHNELL J.

                              txmom32:

                              PS, I get your point too.....

                                #6.8 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:21 PM EST
                                txmom32

                                Dethnell...And then what? WE give them a taste, we then become the "evil empire" all over again. The taste of freedoms and Western Lifestyles have not served the Muslim world, The Mullahs in Iran just exact stronger measures to subdue their population, like the destruction of Persia was not enough. Castro continues to exact an iron boot to his people, do you think that will change in his or Raul's lifetime, even with the embargo lifted? They will use it to their own end and personal gratification, not to fill the bellies of their children. Isn't that the specific cycle we see in Gaza, send in aid or supplies and Hamas feeds the beast and might throw crumbs to the starving, or not.

                                If under the guise of Humanitarian Effort we supply the needs of the corruption are we are complicit in the continued abuse of massive populations. What we send in and what these people need most will never meet. Castro will not let that happen, Chavez will not let that happen, AJ and the band of happy Mullahs will not let that happen because they have to keep these people limited in order to control them.

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.9 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 7:37 AM EST
                                JJ In Florida

                                Tired of Criminals,

                                Right now, Cubans do not dominate in Miami.  Nicaraguans surpass the Cubans in numbers.  I am not sure about the numbers of Colombians, but there are a lot of them also.  As for the rest of Florida, Puerto Ricans easily dominate in the Orlando area with numbers that are easily larger than any single group in the Miami area.

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.10 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 5:43 AM EST
                                JJ In Florida

                                txmon, Deathnell,

                                I agree with both of you.  However, the Muslim world is not the same as Cuba.  Cuba's culture and history do not reflect the fervent and fanatic following that the Mullahs desire and receive from their followers in the Middle East.  It should be noted that in exchange for help, the Castro regime has allowed for Mosques to be opened in Cuba to teach Islam.  Knowing how Cubans think, they will surely go to the Mosques as long as they get something for it.  As for the comparison with Gaza, Cuba does not have a hatred of the US as Gaza does for Israel.  Even if Cuban officials deny it, the Cuban people are really very close to Florida and the US.

                                We can not export a capitalist system or our democracy to any country.  They have to choose it for themselves for it to work its best.  But leaving the embargo in place do not solve anything either.  It has been 50 years and the only thing it has done is to help the Castro regime solidify their stance against the US.  I believe the embargo should be lifted, but in a controlled manner and light preconditions.  Maybe then, as the antiquated Cuban institutions deal with change, they will have to modernize.  More sweeping preconditions can be introduced later.  The inflow of information and capital will force them to reconsider their internal policies and move them toward a more open society.  Kind of like what is going on with China.  Can this backfire on us?  Yes, but right now it is backfiring on us.  Our policy of hitting them with a stick has not work.  Maybe we should show them the carrot, along with maybe a push.

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.11 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 6:16 AM EST
                                DEATHNELL J.

                                Hi txmom32, again I can understand your point, but JJ in Florida has a very good point, and I must say, I couldn't have said it better... Hitting Cuba with a 50 year old stick has not worked(for 50 yrs!), try something new, it's not set in stone; we can always backout.....   

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.12 - Sun Jan 4, 2009 7:46 PM EST
                                txmom32

                                Deathnell J. and JJ,

                                Other than the influx of immigrants what difference does Cuba make in our lives? Do we need one more Caribbean destination? Don't really need cigars. The idea is to open them to trade and provide goods no influx of cash, the people are broke. Just because we trade with them does not mean the people will get the goods. Castro imposes limits. (JJ similar to what Hamas does in Palestine when goods flow from Israel). As far as the Castro's inviting Islam into their country and building mosques...Do you think it is the terrorist brand? I wouldn't think they would be that hell bent to slice off their nose to spite their own faces and allow the likes of al Queda into their midst even to irritate the US. As far as allowing Islam at least they are offering a spiritual choice to their people.

                                Do you really think China is improving? Our trade with them has been one sided with many tainted goods. We really don't need another trading partner with the ethics of China. Our association has done nothing to improved their human rights record.

                                My curiosity is if the Cubans, Colombians and Nicaraguans are all settling in Florida where will the poor Venezuelans go when they flee Chavez? Maybe they will choose Louisiana.

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.13 - Sun Jan 4, 2009 9:12 PM EST
                                DEATHNELL J.

                                txmom32, Louisiana? Could be... How about Nebraska???

                                • 1 vote
                                #6.14 - Mon Jan 5, 2009 12:57 AM EST
                                Reply
                                myself-574806

                                Castro simply replaced a corrupt government. The US is not big enought to forget that Castro beat US financed troops.

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#7 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:27 PM EST
                                ChrisMcK

                                Castro beat US financed troops, sure.  But with Soviet guns firing Soviet bullets by Cuban soldiers trained by Soviet advisers.

                                  #7.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:15 PM EST
                                  Tony Helland

                                  Kinda like in Viet Nam???

                                    #7.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:14 PM EST
                                    Reply
                                    Alex M.-539592

                                    US turned its back on Cuba in the past, now you wanna be friends?

                                    haha

                                    • 1 vote
                                    Reply#8 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:31 PM EST
                                    h2o-393184

                                    Get over it.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #8.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:03 PM EST
                                    DEATHNELL J.

                                    Sure get over it, are you over the ass-beating we got in Viet-nam? Are you over the "WMD'S"-NOT  in Iraq? h2o, can YOU get over being betrayed? Be honest.....

                                      #8.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:47 PM EST
                                      superlogiDeleted
                                      DEATHNELL J.

                                      Superlogi-DITTO!! In the "media" and at home!!!!

                                        #8.4 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:17 PM EST
                                        DEATHNELL J.

                                        superlogi, it should have said; the assbeating we got "for" Vietnam. Thanks for pointing that out...

                                          #8.5 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:35 PM EST
                                          Reply
                                          Roscoe-665493

                                          I'd vacation there, as long as its safe

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#9 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:39 PM EST
                                          Selouscout

                                          I have been there on vacation there several times and I can tell you that just about all of Cuba is safe for tourists. I would visit Cuba way before I would visit Miami. Much safer place and the people are super friendly

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #9.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:46 PM EST
                                          jazzie2010

                                          It's not even safe here in the US, and you are referring to Cuba as unsafe??????

                                            #9.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:17 PM EST
                                            DD50

                                            Roscoe, I'd consider it too - maybe out of curiosity, probably a lot of people are curious about all the tempest in a teapot as regards Cuba. 

                                            The only thing that bothers me, is that Haiti is "free" (of the Docs anyway), yet it is hell on earth according to everything I've ever read, and my parents who were there years ago and were shocked.  Not sure how Cuba will fare even if their embargo is lifted.

                                              #9.3 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 5:05 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              Gary-299792

                                              Have we not so quickly forgotten Granada??????

                                              What does Cuba say to that???

                                              Are they willing to help out the US families whom lost their love ones for retaking Granada?

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#10 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:43 PM EST
                                              Brent Koller

                                              I think they have Gary!!

                                              BRAVO!!!

                                                #10.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:13 PM EST
                                                ftmackinc

                                                 Granada?

                                                This is your point? Jezzus you crack me up....

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #10.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:39 PM EST
                                                jazzie2010

                                                Grenada, another small poor country who's only weapons were rocks and sticks. How brave is that????

                                                  #10.3 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:19 PM EST
                                                  superlogiDeleted
                                                  Reply
                                                  Tim in Canada-791647

                                                  Another columnist telling about Cuba's dependency on other powers and suggesting it would fail without it. Truth is, they're doing fine and improving - because tourism is now huge. And guess what, the nicest thing about it is there are not a bunch of $-waving loud pushy Americans there. From a selfish standpoint, I hope it stays that way - but for the sake of the Cubans, I hope the embargo is dropped. It has been cruel insanity on the part of the US. While you twiddle your thumbs, other countries have built hotels. Now you'll have to pay double - looks good on you. I only hope the terrific, generous Cubans are not changed by it, other than in good ways by improving their standard of living, but not worshipping the dollar.

                                                  And, oh, yes, I know more about Cuba than this journalist, having been there many more times and lived among real Cubans and having married a Cuban.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  Reply#11 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:49 PM EST
                                                  big ed-791685

                                                  You seem to miss a huge point.  The average citizen of Cuba isn't the root of the problem. The problem is the Communist goverment that makes life hell for the Cuban people.  Since you are so well versed on Cuban issues, you must realize that every dollar you spend is going to the Casrtros and not the Cuban people you love soooo much.  The Cubans want the freedoms, they want food, elecrtcity, they want to lead a normal life.  They don't want there leaders to become millionares while they cant' find a loaf of bread.  The US embargo won't or hasn't changed that mentallity.  I have also visited Cuba, live among the Cubans, and have visited my Communist family members and have heard their point of views on the US and how they have been blasted to think we are the bad guy. I am also married to a Cuban and have Cuban parents and I was forunate enough to have been born in the US. I belive my insight may be a little more consice than yours. By the way, they would love to see us bad Americans flashing money all over the island. They do worship the dollar, because when you have nothing, having a little makes a HUGE difference in thier life !!!!!  If you ask my non Communsit family members, things there aren't so good and improving as you state. It's getting worse.....          

                                                  • 5 votes
                                                  #11.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:22 PM EST
                                                  DEATHNELL J.

                                                  Hey big ed, there are people that think they know about Cuba and it's history, and there are those who ACTUALLY know about Cuba and it's history. Your posting is RIGHT ON THE MONEY, THE REAL CUBA, it would benefit those who think they know about Cuba and it's history to do some ACTUAL research as to what's REALLY happening down there and how a communist government really works........  

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #11.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:46 PM EST
                                                  superlogiDeleted
                                                  WILDWONDERFUL

                                                  Wait a minute you tell who you hang out with and I will tell you who you are. The Cuban government associates with governments that do not like us. When they change their ways then yes lift the embargo. I saw the comment about Cubans being upset in Miami when you cant speak their language. I am tired of calling companies and hearing press 1 for English 2 for Spanish.  Its English all the way here/

                                                    #11.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 6:41 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    Larry Wilson

                                                    Judging from the Cubans I've met, most US citizens would be astonished at their intelligence, passion, and energy. Opening contact with Cuba would be rewarding for us as well as for them. It was openness (glasnost) that hastened the demise of the soviet union, the ending of state control of the economy and the flow of information. openness with Cuba would have a similar effect. Plus we'd get to listen to all that great Cuban music. Cigar afficianados could smoke real Cuban cigars without fear of punishment. and we could vacation at Cuban resorts. win, win, win, win, win.....

                                                    • 8 votes
                                                    Reply#12 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:01 PM EST
                                                    DEATHNELL J.

                                                    Could be..... would be nice!!

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #12.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:47 PM EST
                                                    superlogiDeleted
                                                    rob-bot214

                                                    Superlog: Correction - USSR had the 2nd largest military in the world. They went broke trying to keep up with the largest military, which was the USA, and still is.  A good lesson for us, since we may soon go broke as we continue supporting that ridiculously over-sized military today.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #12.3 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:56 PM EST
                                                    DD50

                                                    Larry, Super, and -bo, all good points!  Especially Larry, the few Cubans I've met have been great, probably just a bunch of Spaniard ex-pats though.  I love the music, that is for sure.  As an Ohion lost in San Diego, I have to admit I was still surprised at the Miami airport some years back, at the babbling of Spanish - but only because the people doing it "looked like me" - of European descent.  Oh well.

                                                    I liked SNL's ditty about the Soviet demise of Communism, sort of a truism:  "It fell because there was no money in it".  So true.  Unless you were those few in the 25% that actually belonged in the Communist Party, no doubt they did alright.  (Were they the ones that became the Russian Mafia after the fall of the Wall? Wouldn't surprise me.)

                                                    Hope this year the embargo is lifted.  Maybe when we can actually afford to do a big vacation, we could give Cuba a try.

                                                      #12.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 5:16 PM EST
                                                      WILDWONDERFUL

                                                      The Soviets are still a threat supplying weapons to Iran. 

                                                        #12.5 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 6:42 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        NJSP Foerster Never Forgotten

                                                        Before any relations with Cuba are normalized they MUST hand over Joanne Chesimard who was convicted for the murder of NJ State Trooper Werner Foerster during a traffic stop. She escaped from custody in 1979 and fled to CUBA where she enjoys protection from the Castro Dictatorship. This is a disgrace and MUST be resolved prior to ANY U.S. relations or embargos being revised!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                        • 5 votes
                                                        Reply#13 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:02 PM EST
                                                        ftmackinc

                                                        where the puck do you come up with these things?

                                                        the two countries should stop everything for or because of one dickhead maniac and a bad policy?

                                                        you are kidding right? talk about your head up your... oops I meant your head in the past....

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #13.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:41 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        Brent Koller

                                                        revolutionaries???

                                                        Sure the government they over turned was corrupt  but this people exported arms and troops all over the world, Angola, Graneda, Vietnam to interogate OUR pilots!!!

                                                        Should I go on?

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        Reply#14 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:16 PM EST
                                                        Grayaskan

                                                        Brent Koller...And the US Government has clean hands??

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:06 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        Warm in AZ

                                                        1.  The embargo is a joke...nobody observes/enforces it but US.

                                                        2.  If we can normalize relations with Viet Nam, forgetting all the crap that went on there, we can surely stop the diplomatic BS with Cuba and get down to reality.  Bring them in to our sphere and away from the wacko in Venezuela.  Both countries (US and Cuba) have much to offer each other.  Besides, it's expensive flying to Calgary just to get a really fine cigar!

                                                        • 5 votes
                                                        Reply#15 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:24 PM EST
                                                        superlogiDeleted
                                                        Reply
                                                        gus-724628

                                                        Why don't we just make it a state, then we would get Miami back as the US citizens would go back to their old homes.  We could even give them a bail-out so their payments could` be less.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#16 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:33 PM EST
                                                        hgomez720

                                                        So now the idea is that Cuba's government is benign and that we should kiss up to the honorable Castro brothers. Cuban citizens were just recently given the right to own cell phones. A great move forward on the human right front. Andrea Mitchell's argument is that we could make progess by entering into productive agreements on migration, health care and hurricane relief. In other words, the United States can win the Castro brothers over by allowing more Cuban's into the US, giving them money every hurricane season and paying for the health care of Cubans. Even better US citizens could go to get top quality health care in Cuba just as Micheal Moore did. So there you have it we should listen to the brilliant ideas of communist appeasers.  

                                                        • 6 votes
                                                        Reply#17 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:46 PM EST
                                                        DEATHNELL J.

                                                        Pretty good, I like that! yuk, chuckle, yuk, yuk!!

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #17.1 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:01 AM EST
                                                        Dr. Zook

                                                        It's funny how 12 million Cubans are under a trade embargo because the US doesn't want to deal with an oppressive communist regime but at the same time the US has no problems at all doing billions of dollars a year in trade with 1.2 BILLION Chinese under an oppressive communist regime.

                                                        The more communication and trade that the US has with Cuba, the faster their communist government will collapse.            

                                                        To paraphrase Reagan, "Mr. Obama tear down that trade embargo."

                                                        This has been a Dr. Zook post:  "Just enough truth to be believable."

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #17.2 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 2:36 PM EST
                                                        lorent

                                                        Is the Chinese government collapsing?

                                                          #17.3 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:07 PM EST
                                                          Dr. Zook

                                                          Not yet but it is inevitable that it will.

                                                          I don't think a communism can survive a wealthy general population armed with modern communications.

                                                          This has been a Dr. Zook post:  "Just enough truth to be believable."

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #17.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:29 PM EST
                                                          DD50

                                                          Good point Dr., that question certainly comes to mind - again and again.  Why deal with China as if it is no longer Communist?  How did that come to be, really?  Of course, now they just kind of make it up as they go, as the Chinese are EXTREMELY practical.

                                                            #17.5 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 5:22 PM EST
                                                            Dr. Zook

                                                            I think money can sometimes speak louder than ideology.

                                                            This has been a Dr. Zook post:  "Just enough truth to be believable."

                                                              #17.6 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 6:01 PM EST
                                                              hgomez720

                                                              Dr. Zook,

                                                              Just examine the consequences of the US trade relationship with China.

                                                              Increased pollution of the earth, increase in US debt to China (they have us over a barrel), trade deficit because of Chinese protectionism and little if any progress on human rights.

                                                              I dare any Chinese to speak poorly of their country's leadership. Several Chinese friends told me that dissent against the Chinese government will land you in prison. Despite the fact that the Chinese are armed with modern forms of communication such as the Internet, which is still controlled by the government, and cell phones, the Chinese can not freely express themselves.

                                                              In the end, the promise of earning more money has blinded people into believing that communist governments will simply relinquish  power. Instead what  happens is that there is the appearance of progress in China but really the communist government runs the show. All those dollars earned from our ignorance has allowed communist to remain in power. Your logic will enable oppressive regimens to stay in power rather than crumble. To mock you arrogant tone of voice, " Just a taste of your logic reassures me that my position is the most believable"

                                                              Also in the future you can address me as Dr. Gomez as I hold a PhD in Biology.

                                                               

                                                                #17.7 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 11:16 PM EST
                                                                Dr. Zook

                                                                Hey Dr. Gomez, I see nothing arrogant in my comments.  I'm just calling it the way I see it.  I never said that US trade with China was a good thing, just that it is a fact that such trade exists.

                                                                And don't blame me for US trade with China, I didn't set the situation up.  Blame Richard Nixon, if you want to blame anyone, but I don't think anything anyone says about Nixon is going to bother him too much anymore, considering he died in 1994.

                                                                So all I am saying is that given that the US is trading with China and helping that country to become wealthy and given that the Chinese have access to modern communications, I don't personally believe that the Chinese Communist state will survive those social and economic conditions.  Just my opinion and I see nothing arrogant about that.

                                                                Yes communications can be controlled to an extent but there are ways around such controls.  Speaking in code by email or cell phone for instance. “Chou Wei’s party will be at 3:00 pm on Friday” can mean a birthday celebration is being planned or it can mean, “The co-ordinated attack on police stations around the country will be at 3:00 pm on Friday.”

                                                                The original question I posed earlier was: Why is the US willing to trade with 1.2 billion Communist Chinese but yet have a total trade embargo against 12 million Cubans?  I haven’t heard any answers yet.

                                                                The only reasonable answer I can personally see is that the American attitude of being unwilling to support Communist regimes goes out the window when the dollar signs appear in an Americans eyes at the thought of all the money to be made from trading with the Chinese.

                                                                I see nothing arrogant about my opinion.  There have always been people who will sell their values for cash.  Sadly, that is one aspect of human behavior that is all too real.
                                                                                                        

                                                                This has been a Dr. Zook post:  "Just enough truth to be believable."

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #17.8 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:36 AM EST
                                                                hgomez720

                                                                Dr Zook,

                                                                Your opinion is not arrogant. I was joking somewhat about your qoute, "Just enough truth to be believable." I thought this quote was placed in your response as a tool to mock the positions of those with whom you don't agree. So I apologize to you for my comments if they were offensive to you. I

                                                                So taking a consistent position in your relationships with other countries is not practical and therefore consistency is not always appropriate. The US should be more strict with Cuba since they are closer to the US and the Cubans were willing to place nuclear war heads on their island. The intent of such war heads was to intimidate the US. It is true that the US did piss off the Cubans with their actions. But historically the US has stood against communism because of Stalin's actions after WWII. If the possibility arose again I am sure that Cuba would like to threaten the US with nuclear weapons. China has not been nice to the US either but they never put a gun to our heads. Even in personal relationships consistency is not always the best approach. This is my point.

                                                                Again I apologize to you and I have respect for your opinion but disagree with it. Also I was being a jerk by asking that you address me as Dr. I do hold a PhD but not necessary to address me as Dr.

                                                                  #17.9 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 12:14 PM EST
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  Scott of La Pine, OR

                                                                  End the embargo on Cuba!

                                                                    Reply#18 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:46 PM EST
                                                                    Uncle Will

                                                                    When Castro took over foreign assets after the revolution, the mob and big oil companies lost a lot of money.  Their proxy are the "Cuban-Americans" who have kept this issue on the front burner for 50 years.  I think we should give Cuba back Guantanamo Bay (which we stole) and try to make peace with our neighbor.  The Cuban-Americans would lose their stranglehold on American politicians and we would be rid of the Bush/Cheney travesty.

                                                                    • 3 votes
                                                                    Reply#19 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:56 PM EST
                                                                    gus-724628

                                                                    Randy get a life you already got rid of Bush, there was an election remember?  In a couple years you will be calling for Obama's head.  Never happy America.  You may even think Bush wasn't so bad afterall.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #19.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:10 PM EST
                                                                    Russ Collins

                                                                    Not in this lifetime.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #19.2 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:00 PM EST
                                                                    One really fed up boomer

                                                                    If any of you folks served at Gtmo Bay during the missle crisis as I did you would know that it is one of the best deep water harbors on the planet, to give it up just because it has a bad rap for housing terrorists IS idiotic. And we did not steal it, we negotiated a 99 year lease with renewal clauses.

                                                                    To be blunt, if we did not stage out of Gtmo during the MC we might well have become a "smoking hole" so shut up and read your history morons.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #19.3 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:06 PM EST
                                                                    freedom-372362

                                                                    I think CUBA should pay back restitution to the US businesses that had assets stolen by the corrupt Castro dictatorship. And any type of lands the US seized should be returned, but perhaps the US could sell Guantanomo and then pay the companies that the crooked Cuban dictatorship stole from American interests. That would be quite fair.

                                                                      #19.4 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:10 PM EST
                                                                      icepick151

                                                                      What about the corrupt Batista regime that was propped up by the United States.  This government is the one that allowed US companies and citizens to come in and undermine any social, political, and racial equality that was gained by the previous revolution. 

                                                                      It is interesting how people can call for reparations for lost American assets when most of these were gained through the use of corrupt Cuban government whose officials were puppets of the US.  All the while the vast majority of Cuban people were kept in abject poverty so their labor could be easily exploited.

                                                                        #19.5 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 11:04 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Jim-373311

                                                                        There is no reason to bar Americans from visiting Cuba anymore. 

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        Reply#20 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:01 PM EST
                                                                        superlogiDeleted
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        mikecanada1

                                                                        Andrea please get your facts straight. Why not mention all the other countries that have helped Cuba instead of just mentioning Venezeula and the Soviet Union. By saying this you are making the Cubans look bad. Kind of like trading with the enemy. Countries all over the world have been helping Cuba . If you go to a nice restaurant in Havana and order steak and lobster and maybe an escargo appetizer , the steak will be from Canada and the escargo will be from France or Spain. We and other countries are supplying and helping the people of Cuba as much as they can , but they also need help from the U.S. People are rationed to 1 & 1/2 lbs of chicken per month per person and children no longer get milk after the age of 12. The wage for a worker whether he is a doctor or a labourer is $ 30.00 U.S. per month. With all these hardships I can honestly say that the people are happier then their U.S. counterparts. No other country in the wold has an embargo against Cuba and the U.N. has asked for the U.S. to lift it for humanitarian reasons , but the government refuses to do so.   

                                                                        Drug interdiction? Cuba has the lowest percentage of drug addicts in all of North and South America. I have visited and stayed at a drug treatment center in Holguin Cuba, as an observer for 2 weeks. Their drug teatment programs surpass any treatment centers in North America. The addicts that are living there are from as far away as Italy. There are many treatment centers in Cuba and there are a lot of Venezuelans there. The are put in there and paid for by the Venezuelan Government , as they are trying there best to help addicts get off drugs and gain employment. There is a zero tolerance for drugs in Cuba , and selling drugs will be a mandantory 20 sentence. Using drugs you will be sent to a re-hab center and the second offence will be 10 years in jail.

                                                                        When I go to Cuba I live with the people. They know Communism doesn't work for them but they are afraid to speak to you about it , because they could be jailed for speaking against the government. The only way they truly know how the rest of the world lives is by tourists that come there and talk to them. They have internet , but if you try to go on to almost any website that the government doesn't want you to see , it comes up "restricted access" .

                                                                        The people that have money are people in the tourist industry. They can make over a months income in one night on tips in a good restaurant or bar. You will find taxi cab drivers that are doctors , driving at night. The cabs have to have a log sheet and they will be pulled over at a government checkpoint and have to show their logshheet, however , a couple of dollars slipped into the checkers hand and they sign it without looking at it. In the restaurants , as they are all government owned the staff has no problem with food , as when they leave work they take lots of it home with them. There really is no control , and everything runs that way.

                                                                        • 4 votes
                                                                        Reply#21 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:13 PM EST
                                                                        big ed-791685

                                                                        Mike in canada.  The air must be really cold in the great white north.  It seems you and Tim, a fellow Canadian,seem to suffer from brain freeze.  The fact that they are limited on the food they get isn't a Canadian, Spanish, Venezuelan or US issue.  It boils down to the Communist system and controlling the citizens of Cuba.  Saying that the Cuban people are "happier" than US citizens is insane....  Must be nice to have freedom of speech and buy all the food you want in Canada hey ? Why don't you ask Fidel if his food intake is rationed !!!! 

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #21.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:52 PM EST
                                                                        DEATHNELL J.

                                                                        People are happier in Cuba than the US? OH, so that's why there are sooo many Americans boarding rafts trying to make it to Cuba!!!!!!!!

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #21.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:46 AM EST
                                                                        superlogiDeleted
                                                                        lorent

                                                                        If their system is so great and everybody else is willing to trade with them, why do we have to?  If their system worked, our participation shouldn't make a difference.  It doesn't work, but they would like to create the illusion that it does by sucking off the huge, actually efficient, economy next door.  Screw that.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #21.4 - Thu Jan 1, 2009 4:11 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Tired of Criminals

                                                                        Castro will be dead soon and then we should work something out. Make it part of the United States most of their people are already here.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        Reply#22 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:14 PM EST
                                                                        DAN-260821Deleted
                                                                        rob-bot214

                                                                        What is this obsession with the Castro's? Is it that you don't like Fidel's beard? There are plenty of countries in the world with oppressive governments and corrupt leaders, but somehow Castro really hits a nerve. We can't be reasonable and realistic about Cuba because then Castro would win! Face it he already has won, because the whole world except Israel and Pulau agrees that the US is acting the fool. The US has to get past this childish fixation on personalities, and basing our foreign policy on dislike of an annoying leader. Lucky for China and Saudi Arabia that they don't have any notable personalities in their leadership. Their governments are very oppressive but there isn't a well-known leader to hate in those countries. 

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #22.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:13 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        mikecanada1

                                                                        Cuba is full of American tourists. When I fly non-stop from Toronto , over half the people on the flight are Americans.  

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        Reply#23 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:16 PM EST
                                                                        diego -791758

                                                                        is andrea mitchell on big oil's payroll. now comes a hopeful article about new cuba/u.s relations. ever wonder why? i will tell you. it is because our cuba policy never cost us any money. we could hold the hard line against cuba and keep the cubans in america happy. they all dream of going back and recovering their left behind fortunes. apparently no one who left the island to come here was poor. in order to secure the cuban vote (see the first bush election in florida) they tell them what they want to hear. however, now their is a new wrinkle in the relationship. we could go without cuban cigars, rum, sugar etc. no sweat to ostracize them over those products. you may have heard during the election campaign about china drilling oil of our coast. well the chinese are bankrolling the project. repsol (the spanish oil company) and a dutch firm with deep sea drilling capability are the other partners. they are going to develop a huge field of light sweet oil off the coast of cuba. now it will cost us money not to do business with cuba. ergo, the cuba/u.s relationship is going to change. this article is sure to be one of many to lead public sentiment to the idea that we need to stop treating them badly and bring them into good guy status. by the way did anyone catch the report buried in the back pages of most papers about libya. it appears they made the final payment for reparation of the lockerbee act of terrorism which blew up a 747. since they have paid up, g.w. bush has put them on the list of good guy nations. guess who is bringing just over a million barrels a day of crude oil on line within the next year. if you guessed libya, go to the head of the class. watch for more cuba articles or reports at a newspaper or t.v show near you!!

                                                                          Reply#24 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:21 PM EST
                                                                          ChrisMcK

                                                                          I'll vacation in St. John USVI, thanks.  When the Castro brothers are gone, I'll think about visiting Cuba.  Until then, you can keep the Socialist Workers Paradise.  Such a great place that no one ever wants to leave!  It's a simple equation:  when the Castros are gone and some semblance of free elections are held, the embargo will be lifted, and I'll consider taking my hard-earned tourist dollars there.  For now the Michael Moore counterculture types can have fun idealizing Cuba, wearing their Che Guevarra t-shirts and lionizing the Butcher of Havana.

                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          Reply#25 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:30 PM EST
                                                                          gus-724628

                                                                          Michael Moore can stay in Cuba for all I care, he belongs with Castro or maybe castra#### would be better.

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #25.1 - Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:38 PM EST
                                                                          DEATHNELL J.

                                                                          Michael Moore, what a comedian, a very funny guy, his documentaries are pretty laughable... What's incredable to me, is how many people believe in fiction. All it takes to know the "truth" is just a little research, read, open your eyes, see for yourself how great the communist system of government is. And afterwards if you end up liking it, GET YOUR ASS ON A RAFT AND GO THERE, SEE HOW MUCH HELP YOU'LL GET!!! 

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #25.2 - Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:54 AM EST
                                                                          Reply
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