Gaza conflict spreads to Europe with Jews attacked

There is no excuse for violence against innocents. Period.

It is terrible how often the innocent suffer most during times of conflict.

Not just in Europe, but the civilians in Gaza suffering from Israel's attack against Hamas and the Jews in Israel who fear the Hamas rockets.

 There is no excuse for violence against innocents. Period. 

True, but this article is about Jews in particular. The hatred against them for just being Jew is astounding.

What's next freaking concentration camps...  We all need to speak out against this, it's wrong.

"We really fear that anti-Semitism will spring up again and that the current conflict will be transposed to our beautiful French republic," he said.

Now, now, anti-semites in France rampaging against innocent Jews there- please don't spoil that pretty country with your violent bigotry!

Speaking of France, remember the banileu rampages?

"What's next freaking concentration camps" -- iluvmyblog

Kind of like Gaza Strip?

Ron,

Not even close. Do you remember what went on in the concentrations camps during the Holocaust..? 

Did the Nazi's allow Jews to leave...?

Did the Nazi's try to save Jews that were dying?

The answer is NO.

Go ahead and try to compare the Israelis retaliation against the terrorist acts by Hamas and militants to the Nazi's but if you did some research you will see they are not evil careless people they are being made out to be.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/16/africa/ME-GEN-Gaza-Pilgrims.php

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024114.php

Hey Ron,

 Just in case you forgot what the Holocaust concentration camps were like I have a link to refresh your memory, because it really seems you must have forgotten.

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/photos/

http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/holocamp.html

Yeah...not even close in comparison to the Gaza strip.

Hey, I have a friend who spent a good part of his youth in a Palestinian refugee camp in Jordan. Maybe he can tell you how great it was. Like the part where they were starving and had to eat rats. But I am sure you are basing your knowledge of the life of Palestinians and the Gaza Strip on first hand knowledge right? See the problem with your arguments is that you are trying to deny that innocents are suffering on both sides because of the injustice and and propoganda perpetuated by both the Israeli in the government and Hamas. Like one is more guilty than the other.

Let me ask you this. Say you are passing a playground and you decide it is a good place for you and your friends to hang out. There are some kids hanging around and you tell them to move because it is your turn to play on the playground. So they get pissed off and start throwing rocks at you, so you get even bigger rocks and throw them at them. Then lets say one has a beebee gun, so they start shooting you and your friends with it. Is it then ok for you to get out your shotgun and starting shooting at them...perhaps going and slaughter their family for good measure...until they admit that they were the ones who were wrong all along and surrender?

Perhaps Gaza isn't a mirror image of the Holocaust yet, but what should we do? Wait by until it is before someone is like "hey enough is enough?". That's how genocide and ethnic cleansing happen...they wait by, make excuses, pretend it isn't going on, and then make a movie about it later.  Is Hamas wrong for firing rockets into Israel? Of course. Is it wrong to attack innocent civilians simply based on their religion or ethnic origin? Of course.  But why are people so willing to argue that is somehow less wrong to do that to Palestinians. Like they wear an invisible "yellow crecent" of guilt just based on their religion affiliation.

You know, I've actually been to Auschwitz I and II...and II is where the train rail is.... the rest is more or less an empty field of smokestacks a few barn like facilities, etc. You walk along the rail all the way to the very back where there is a memorial promising peace. Never Again... I don't think those who put it there meant it to be selective. Perhaps I am wrong.

I agree wkb. People need to be reminded of what happened to the Jews and how real that hate is today as it was during the time of Hitler. Hamas has the same goal of killing these people and making Israel an Islamic state. That is what people need to understand.

Mego,

By no means am I saying that the Gaza strip is not suffering but when Ron compared it to the concentration camps of the Holocaust, there is no comparison. The magnitude and torture and inhuman deaths were the worst atrocity that the world has ever seen.

Of course I do not want to see the Palestinians in suffering or the Israelis, but when Hamas and suicide bombers are constantly attacking them what on earth do you expect them to do...?  They haven't had a retaliation like this, they are damn tired of these attacks. Israel has made many attempts to make peace with Palestinians but they will not comply. So my question to you is what do you expect Israel to do?

I think that accusing people of being "anti-semites" and "terrorist apologists" constitutes a violation of the CoH. If not it should. It is usually the thing people say when they run out of worthy responses to peoples commentary. Having said that I am probably going to be denied one of those awesome friend requests WKB has been handing out like candy in a parade.

Ilovemyblog, thanks for being more civil. I by no means support Hamas but this simply isn't an issue of innocent Israelis being attacked by he evil terrorists. The world isn't that simple. It isn't so black and white. Does Israel have a right to defend itsef from aggression? Of course... but shouldn't Palestinians have that same right? You can't just beat your enemy into submission. 

For starters, I don't think Israel should really limit its attacks to Hamas. If they feel a member of Hamas is hiding in a crowd of civilians, in a school, etc. perhaps they consider the short and long term costs. Also they should probably stop dragging people from their homes in the dead of night to be arrested, building settlements on Palestinian land, bulldozing Palestinian homes (and sometimes people), tear gassing people, harassing people. Shouldn't a democractic state hold themselves to a higher standard than a terrorist organization?

I think that accusing people of being "anti-semites" and "terrorist apologists" constitutes a violation of the CoH. If not it should.

If you're referring to WKB's statement above, he specifically addresses the anti-Semites in France that have been carrying out attacks on Jews.

Accusing someone of being an anti-semite is against the CoH. To my knowledge, calling someone a terrorist apologist is not. After all, so many lovely people on the vine say that Zionism = terrorism and then refer to some posters as Zionist apologists. That's basically the same thing as calling someone a terrorist apologist. Those kinds of posts regularly stay up.

Actually I believe WKB and I have had similar run in where he-she accused me of something similar. I don't take well to that. I for one have never called anyone a Zionist or a Zionist apologist, nor have I have accused Zionists of being terrorists. Name calling doesn't really do anything but boost ones own ego and I don't take interest in these topics as a matter of self gratification. If people are making such comments, and they are let stand, than perhaps they should be reported until the moderators get involved.

Funny, one of the most anti-semetic comments on this seed was not even addressed by any of the people spewing out their accusations of anti-semitism. Thankfully it was finally deleted.

Actually I believe WKB and I have had similar run in where he-she accused me of something similar. I don't take well to that.

... That doesn't apply to this seed, then. Why bring it up here?

I for one have never called anyone a Zionist or a Zionist apologist, nor have I have accused Zionists of being terrorists.

Nobody said you did. Plenty of people do say that, however.

If people are making such comments, and they are let stand, than perhaps they should be reported until the moderators get involved.

In my case, those kinds of statements have been left standing AFTER I reported them to Newsvine staff.

So, who's this referencing, worldknightboy? It's pretty unclear.

I seriously doubt he was suggesting anyone on this seed. iluvmyblog agreed with him and said that people (in general) need to remember and understand. I agree.

Tyler,

I echo what Mystic Chick is said.

Tyler, please delete my comment at #1.10. It is not worth it to me to have stupidly put you in a position of having to mediate another unnecessary conflict on Newsvine. Please suspend me for a day, and please accept my promise that I'll try to be more circumspect in the future. I know what I know, but I see it has crossed a line of yours, and I should pay a price.

P.S.- thanks Mystic and iluvmyblog. If Tyler lets me back on, I will be sure to live up to the esteem you two hold for me!

Actually I believe WKB and I have had similar run in where he-she accused me of something similar. I don't take well to that.

... That doesn't apply to this seed, then. Why bring it up here?

If he/she had done it before, there was no direction given to the insult in the comment, and followed my comment I believe I am justified in inferring that it was directed at me and the others who aren't of a shared mindset. Had he/se simply said "hey sorry that comment was directed at the people attacking European civilians not at you" I wouldn't have been upset about it.  But I am done arguing this point.

Tyler, I appreciate your fairness and firmness.

would this make news if someone from Israel didn't yell about it?....see its seems to me, to be the whole, plant, plant (ssshhhh)....hey guys looks what I found, hey you people come look at what "someone" did, hey, hey everyone....i think ...randomly pointing finger....YOU did it, because, because...ummm....your not....ummmmmm Jjjjjjjjjewish (in this instance). yeah that's right, he did it, hey  everyone not only did I discover this crime but I have also solved it right here within seconds....by pointing my finger...my finger is powerful...its very religious.

Antisemitism against both Muslims and Jews has been increasing in recent years (which may explain many European countries slide to the political right).

Racism, anti semitism are usually symptons of much larger issues. Time to sort out Anti Israeli sentiments caused by Gaza and OCCUPATION, APARTHEID...and mindless attacks against civilians because they are different. When the two are so closely associated with the conflict of the MIDDLE EAST...it will make this proposition even harder to separate.

Still if we demand universal, social demands against Zionist racism against Palestinians, and against anti Semitism by right thugs we can reduce the conflicts of two different yet closely linked issues.

Eric,

Do you think that people can send in suicide bombers to kill woman and children or fire rockets at civilian targets and not expect a reprisal?  Your logic fits both Hamas and Israel.

Leogodin...Stop the OCCUPATION, APARTHEID, and War crimes against Palestinians, and the rocket issue, which is irrelevant, considering the might of Zionist-American Empire hardware, used to continue to slaughter civilians and continue to transform Palestinians into an exterminated population...is typical Zionist propaganda.

While the corporate news is nearly in its whole 100 percent pro Zionist, the public is rejecting both Zionism, and the lies of the corporate media.

Unprecedented Numbers of Americans Question Israel's Actions in Gaza

http://www.alternet.org/audits/117568/unprecedented_numbers_of_americans_question_israel%27s_actions_in_gaza/

Can you stick to the topc, please, "BuzzWord" Albert? This seed is about attacks on JEWS in Europe.

While I don't agree with everything Eric is saying, the article is about Jews in Europe being targeted, allegedly as a result of Israel's actions in Gaza. I would argue that discussing the conflict in Gaza (no matter which side you are on, or simply neutral) is fair game.

Mego-

This is all Eric ever does. I swear, he must have a word document saved on his computer with posts that he readily copies and pastes. He never says anything new. It's always a big "Zionist conspiracy" played out by the "Zionist controlled media" that condones Israel's "apartheid" and "occupation." There's a reason I call him 'Buzzword.'

I don't expect him to criticize the attacks on Jews in Europe but it would be nice to be surprised.

Eric,

The Jews would be living happily and peacefully today if the Arabs around them did not attack them in the first place.  It is the Arabs who attacked the Jews not the other way around.  The Jews are stuck with this Palestinian problem because the Jews were attacked first.  Is Israel blameless?  No.  However, your one sided parroting of pro Arab anti Jew rhetoric is ridiculous.

Eric,
Im guessing your an english major and that your favorite word is apartheid.

The rocket issue is not irrelevant regardless of the hardware that the Jews have. truth is, it shows just how baneful hamas is. without even having a target they fire these rockets looking for random destruction.

leogodin writes,

So much for Europe being "enlightened" and "tolerant"

Europe's been an incubator of anti-Semitism for centuries. The Holocaust didn't just pop up out of nowhere all of the sudden -- it was brewing for, oh, a thousand years at least.

I know.  I just get sick of hearing peole compare the US to Europe and end up calling Europe tolerant when they are not. 

Duly noted. And agreed.

Yeah, probably, they just didn't make an AP article about it. Remember the scandal of the Prophet Mohammed comics? The actions of these people are wrong by all means, but don't assume they just blindly hate Jews and exhalt Muslims.

Any indignation when Muslims slaughter and gang rape in Darfur?

Darfur is a tribal conflict, not a religious one.

Darfur is a tribal conflict, not a religious one.

just keep saying that

 and Islam is peace

and people who are ill informed may think it's true

Sudan IS a tribal conflict. And anybody well informed knows fully about that.

kpr, do you want me to provide citations to prove that the conflict in Darfur is tribal in nature, or would you rather look it up yourself and avoid further embarrasment?

stay on topic, kpr

#4.3 diversionary. When that didn't work, #4.6 tries the ad hom attack to divert further. Let's talk about the rise of anti-semitism in Europe kpr. That's what this item is about.

When one "tribe" is Islamic and another "tribe" is animist, it's not a stretch to say that religion--as well as ethnicity--is fueling the ethnic warfare in the Sudan.

Arabs are pushing into historically Black African lands. It diminishes the conflict to call it tribalism, when so much more is at stake.

Arabs are pushing into historically Black African lands. It diminishes the conflict to call it tribalism, when so much more is at stake.

very well said.

ditto. It is also a genocide being perpetrated by muslims against non-muslims.

Precisely, world. Take note of those who argue otherwise. Darfur exposes Islam's vile hypocrisy. Recall, too, Khartoum's Islamist threats when the former UN head tried to do something about it.

Dennis is right about Darfur. Overwhelmingly it is a tribal (ethnic) not religious conflict (over resources). There are documented instances of janjaweed fighters burning the mosques/korans of the tribes they've attacked.

Yeah. They're trying to edicate three separate tribes. Horrible.

But don't let that stop your slamming me, kpr.

alk, do you have a cite for that? If you do, it pretty much ends this particular line of argument, I think. I have too often heard these "facts" bandied about without citation, however, so I am cautious now.

The south of the Sudan is populated with many non-Muslims. But the situation in Darfur is different: an ethnic conflict over resources. Most wars are driven by that engine.

This is pretty good article which pretty much sums it all up: Fleeing the horsemen who kill for Khartoum

But don't let that stop your slamming me, kpr.

have no fear,it wont

Oh well. I suppose everybody needs a hobby.

Darfur is an ethnic conflict, with a light-skinned Muslim group persecuting dark-skinned peoples further south, both Muslim and Animist. It's all about arable land and water -- but enduring ethnic hatreds have laid the groundwork for violence.

You cannot expect Israel to be able to kill 600 people and nobody feels like revenge is due, even if touches those who have decided not to move to Israel and should actually be highly respected for it.

Similarly, you cannot expect Hamas to be able to rain down rockets on Israel and have nobody feel that revenge is due. You can't have your argument one way, Martin. This eye for an eye crap is going to leave us all blind.

Well said, Jeff. Friends request sent.

The "moderate" and "peaceful" Muslims are silent through all of these incidents.  They are afraid to speak out, lest they find a price on their head.  What a wonderfully peaceful and tolerant religion they belong to.

By their silence they are accepting the actions of the vocal minority.  When the world only hears one point by the violent vocal minority associated with Islam, most of the world will believe that the minority is in fact the majority.

The moderate and peaceful muslims silence is just a sad way of accepting how the world see their religion and have yet to try to presuad the world that there are a majority of tolerant people in their faith.   

mayybe the peaceful Muslims should speak out against these type of actions of their fellow Muslims. This is one of the reasons why many people think that Muslims are not peaceful.

I think it's a mistake to speak of "Muslums" as one unified group.  There are several factions of Islam and many Muslum countries are not allies of each other.

leogodin,

Well said. Your comment gets a + vote from me.

The horrific consequences of reflexively hating and despising entire groups of people is sort of what this article is about, right?

I think it's a mistake to speak of "Muslums" as one unified group.  There are several factions of Islam and many Muslum countries are not allies of each other.

While it's wrong to generalize people, it's still done. Just like Islamic extremists generalize Jews , people also try to generalize Muslims.

 Which is why I said maybe the Muslims and people of Islam faith should speak out against it and say hey this is not how we all think! Do you get what I'm saying?

Here is my way of thinking that some may agree with is silence not tolerance?

Shouldn't those who feel their Muslim brothers that are doing wrong tell the world, I am of this faith but I do not condone their actions. Staying silence just allows the class bully to keep do the same action.

Socalgal,

Shouldn't those who feel their Muslim brothers that are doing wrong tell the world, I am of this faith but I do not condone their actions.

Oh many do. Including here on the Vine. Like here - Bigots at work

Staying silence just allows the class bully to keep do the same action.

But you will rarely find some of those anti-semitic chanters appearing on those threads. They become conspicious by their absence. And silence.

Mark,

Let's get closer to home.  What if Canada started firing rockets into Buffalo, NY or Mexico began launching rockets into El Paso, TX?  What would the US response consist of?  Better yet, what response would the American people demand?

Proportional response is a joke.  There is no such thing in armed conflict.  You abide by the laws of warfare and attempt to minimize collateral damage.  Period.  Anyone who believes that you should proportion your response based on the size or level of attack that you suffered is living in a fantasy land. 

Thanks for being a stand up guy, Mark! Friends request sent!

Israel has the right to defend herself. Just as we, the United States, have a right to defend ourselves. Israel has not always been right about everything they have done and we certainly haven't either. It still doesn't dismiss the fact that Israel has a right to defend herself.

Hamas is a true terrorist organization. They do not fight honorably or with any other intention but to goad Israel to destruction. Gaza needs aid, medical aid, etc. However, they will not get proper aid until they expel Hamas. Hamas uses schools, nurseries, hospitals, private homes, etc. and anything else they can get their hands on to hide their terrorist activities. That is truly rooted in evil to willfully bring destruction on innocent people. Hamas will not stop doing it. They need to be wiped off the face of the earth.

If ANYONE started lobbing rockets from either country connected to the US, retribution should be swift and immediate. This is barring any despotic president, like Bush, making up false attack allegations and attacking an uninvolved country.

Exactly right, SLB! Friends request sent!

What if Canada started firing rockets into Buffalo, NY

I'm not sure anyone would notice-no one lives here anymore-especially if they missed and hit the old Bethlehem Steel Works South of Buffalo.......looks like they already did.

Yeah, get rid of the violent and hateful Palestinians

Just get rid of the violent and hateful terrorist group hamas. I'm confident, though, the anti-semitic terrorist apologists and supporters will still go about their violence against innocent Jews in Europe. Its a hobby to them. Hitler would be proud.

So you go and kill some more civilian Jews that are thousands of miles away from Israel. I bet all these perpetrators are Moslems.  

Peace be onto you in the name of Allah! That is some convoluted logic.

comment #10 - "The Israelis always use the term anti-semetic when you disagree with them." -- sevens7777

comment #10.2 - "I'm confident, though, the anti-semitic terrorist apologists and supporters....." -- worldknightboy

Sevens7777,

Your point has been made, and it only took 2 comments to prove it.  These Zionist sympathizers are so predictable, are they not?  Good job.

Muslim extremists are an infestation on our planet and deserving of extermination

And of course, they feel exactly the same about you and yours.

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

-- Nietzsche "Beyond Good and Evil" Aphorism 146

  In 2002, some 2,300 Jews left France for Israel because they felt unsafe.

 This seems like a bold statement to me.

Several thousands left the US too, I doubt it is for having felt unsafe in the US.

France has Europe's largest Jewish community. I would venture to speculate that many Jews who left France left for the same reasons they left the US as well. Plain, simple Aliyah. To my knowledge the French community is actually slightly increasing in numbers today. The nation with the highest increase in Jewish population of the last decade was Germany, btw. Somehow hard to imagine.

Are you so dense that you can't get that through your skull?

Jeez!

Never made the same point in more recent discussions because this is my first comment on this subject ~ wrong Kim, Tyler. And does it really matter if you say Israelis or Jews?

Context is important, and in this case, critical in Kim's comment which started about the plight of the Jews, meaning horrors of the Holocaust. In that context, it is 100% correct to say Jews and totally inaccurate to say Israelis. Because:

• Israel did not exist at at that time
• Israelis include Arabs who were not victims of the Holocaust.

Not all Muslims are jihadists.

Actually, all Muslims do practice jihad - it's a major tenet of the faith. Fortunately, jihad doesn't mean what people seem to think it does.

Jihad: Literally, striving. Any earnest striving in the way of God, involving either personal effort, material resources, or arms for righteousness and against evil, wrongdoing and oppression. Where it involves armed struggle, it must be for the defense of the Muslim community or a just war to protect even non-Muslims from evil, oppression, and tyranny.