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PrintColeman sues over Minnesota Senate recount result
Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:01 PM EST
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WEST ST PAUL — Republican Norm Coleman filed a lawsuit Tuesday challenging Democrat Al Franken's apparent recount victory in Minnesota's U.S. Senate race, delaying a resolution of the contest for weeks or months.
At a Capitol news conference filled with cheering supporters, Coleman said he won't accept a board's determination a day earlier that Franken captured 225 more votes in the November election. He had a seven-day window to file the lawsuit.
"We are filing this contest to make absolutely sure every valid vote was counted and no one's was counted more than anyone else's," Coleman said.
Coleman shrugged off the idea that he might concede the election to avoid a protracted fight that could leave Minnesota with only a single senator in Washington for months.
"Something greater than expediency is at stake here," Coleman said. He added: "Democracy is not a machine. Sometimes it's messy and inconvenient, and reaching the best conclusion is never quick because speed is not the first objective, fairness is."
State law prevents officials from issuing an election certificate until legal matters are resolved.
Franken attorney Marc Elias called Coleman's lawsuit "essentially the same thin gruel, warmed-over leftovers from meals we've all been served over the last few weeks."
He said that Coleman has the right to sue, but that doesn't mean his claims have merit, and he is confident Franken would prevail.
Franken e-mailed supporters Tuesday to request donations to continue the fight, just as Coleman did a day earlier.
Coleman, whose term expired Saturday, led Franken by 215 votes in the Nov. 4 count but that advantage flipped during a prolonged recount.
In going to court, Coleman has three big challenges: raising money to pay escalating legal bills, proving the election was flawed and managing the public's desire to have the race over.
"They definitely have an uphill fight on their hands," said Guy-Uriel Charles, a professor of election and constitutional law at the University of Minnesota. "Their legal theory will have to overcome a burden of proof, and then they have to find enough votes to overcome Franken's lead."
That could prove difficult, since any bloc of new votes would almost surely include some for Franken, who declared victory Monday.
A lawsuit gives both sides options they lacked during the recount, such as accessing voter rolls, inspecting machines and introducing testimony from election workers.
Coleman's filing includes some of the points his lawyers have been making for weeks. It centers mainly on claims that hundreds of rejected absentee ballots from Republican-leaning areas should have been part of the recount, that some ballots in Democratic territory were counted twice and that election officials were wrong to use machine tallies for a Minneapolis precinct where ballots went missing.
But there are new angles, too.
The lawsuit alleges that the Canvassing Board made mistakes when determining voter intent on challenged ballots, that ineligible voters cast ballots and that some absentee ballots were erroneously opened early, raising chain-of-custody concerns.
A race that was a couple of years in the making — Franken announced his campaign in February 2007 — is now two months past Election Day.
The case would fall to a three-judge panel selected by Chief Justice Eric Magnuson of the state Supreme Court, an appointee of Republican Gov. Tim Pawlenty and a member of the Canvassing Board.
The costs of the election lawsuit fall to the losing campaign, although state law could require various units of government to foot the bill if their errors or irregularities lead to a reversal.
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Published to:
- Brian Bakst's Column, All of Newsvine
- Groups: Minnesota Newsviners
- Regions: United States , Minneapolis/Saint Paul
 | Coleman heads to court as last option in recount | Associated Press | Tue Dec 30 | 5 |
 | Al Franken *LIKELY* Declared Winner Of Minnesota Senate Recount | buzznewsroom.com | Mon Jan 5 | 7 |
| Franken Campaign Tactics to Steal Election | NewsMax | Tue Jan 6 | 1 |
| Franken declares Senate race win after state ruling - CNN.com | CNN | Mon Jan 5 | 0 |
| Panel to declare Franken winner of Senate race | CNN | Sun Jan 4 | 2 |
- Public Discussion (69)
- Minnesota Newsviners
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{"commentId":4689691,"authorDomain":"arad"}
When all else fails, litigate. -_-
{"commentId":4689691,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"arad"}
- 11 votes
#1 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:20 PM EST{"commentId":4694500,"authorDomain":"Brian-657672"}
corrupt elections?
{"commentId":4694500,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"Brian-657672"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4694687,"authorDomain":"rtmccauleybf11"}
In the end, a theft is still a theft and he should absolutely sue to shine some light in on what is being perpetrated. I particularly like how so much effort gets expended in channeling the intent of questionable resident voters who can't even fill out an oval and contrast that with how quickly military absentee ballets are tossed because they have a higher tendency of voting republican. But how dare I question anyone's patriotism - it is dirty pool with a page from Al Gore's, who tried the same thing in 2004, but I guess there was not "convening authority." This stops being an election whenever political subjectivity comes into play - and it always does because there are never any ramifications or penalties for fraud. Whatever happened to those patriots who voted in multiple states for the national election - did they ever get prosecuted? And who did they vote for again? Somehow this headline and story always plays better when Al the Dem is is portrayed as the victim. How typical.
{"commentId":4694687,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"rtmccauleybf11"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4694794,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
Huh?
{"commentId":4694794,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4694909,"authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
it is dirty pool with a page from Al Gore's, who tried the same thing in 2004
Yes, it seems like only four years ago for many of us, but I think you meant 2000
{"commentId":4694909,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4694971,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
Al Gores play book? Jeb Bush was the Governor of the State that held up the election. Hell ya I would have filed suit. In 2000, Umm Kerry was in 2004.
{"commentId":4694971,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4689807,"authorDomain":"jibade7"}
Yep, if cheating and hiding ballots doesn't work, sue. Then I guess he can try having a tantrum and holding his breath.
{"commentId":4689807,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"jibade7"}
- 17 votes
#2 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:26 PM EST{"commentId":4694517,"authorDomain":"Brian-657672"}
Can elections be corrupt in America?
{"commentId":4694517,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"Brian-657672"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4689901,"authorDomain":"PeteZaHutt"}
Sucks doesn't it? Deal with it.
{"commentId":4689901,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"PeteZaHutt"}
- 9 votes
#3 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 4:31 PM EST{"commentId":4690494,"authorDomain":"greenpagan"}
Didn't Coleman say before the recount that whoever lost shouldn't drag things through the courts? I guess that was only meant to apply to Franken…Coleman is such a slippery opportunist. A former liberal Democrat who thought the country would move permanently to the Right.
My money's on Franken.
====
{"commentId":4690494,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"greenpagan"}
- 26 votes
#4 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 5:03 PM EST{"commentId":4690787,"authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
Yep - interesting how the story changes when the shoe is on the other foot. Coleman demanded Franken concede, even though a recount was mandated by state law, i an effort to not waste the taxpayers time and money. Now that he's behind, apparently he now wants to waste the taxpayers time and money. Hypocracy at its finest. Luckily, it appears the courts are going to throw this one out in a hurry .. I think the Supreme Court threw out a similar case a few years ago called Gore V. Bush. Payback's a @!$%# sometimes (although we are still paying the consquences for that one).
{"commentId":4690787,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
- 23 votes
{"commentId":4692484,"authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
Didn’t Coleman say before the recount that whoever lost shouldn’t drag things through the courts?
Yes he did.
Coleman demanded Franken concede, even though a recount was mandated by state law, i an effort to not waste the taxpayers time and money.
Yes he did.
Please don't be hard on poor Mr. Coleman. He is a republican and as he all know republicans believe one very imprtant thing when it comes to the legal system.
It is only there for their purposes.
{"commentId":4692484,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
- 17 votes
{"commentId":4696515,"authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
Please don't be hard on poor Mr. Coleman. He is a republican and as he all know republicans believe one very imprtant thing when it comes to the legal system.
It is only there for their purposes.
All other purposes equate to "judicial activism".
{"commentId":4696515,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":4696702,"authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
W Scott,
Thanks. Those were the words I was looking for, but all I could think of was "legislate from the bench".
{"commentId":4696702,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4690743,"authorDomain":"dreamer"}
This is just more BS; I live in MN and voted for Coleman. I now feel that NEITHER ONE OF THEM are qualified for the job-they both have acted like little children through this whole process. Pardon me-but they need to grow a pair!
{"commentId":4690743,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"dreamer"}
- 3 votes
#5 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 5:18 PM EST{"commentId":4691510,"authorDomain":"ostrichstealth"}
Pardon me-but they need to grow a pair!
Yeah, and testicles too!!!
{"commentId":4691510,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"ostrichstealth"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4690877,"authorDomain":"hockeydancemom"}
Coleman is a hypocrite!! He tells everyone that he wouldn't have pushed for a recount if he would have been Franken and that Franken should "step back". But NOW he has a different story. Practice what you preach Coleman! I didn't vote for either of them but I hope Franken wins. Coleman is a slimeball! He is the only one I have heard whining during the recount process!
{"commentId":4690877,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"hockeydancemom"}
- 22 votes
#6 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 5:25 PM EST{"commentId":4691223,"authorDomain":"Max1"}
Indeed. He has lost all credibility and I suspect that many who voted for him wouldn't do so again.
{"commentId":4691223,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"Max1"}
- 16 votes
{"commentId":4691826,"authorDomain":"thomas-utt"}
Well; the words republican and hypocrite is one of the same these days isn’t it.
{"commentId":4691826,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"thomas-utt"}
- 13 votes
{"commentId":4691935,"authorDomain":"jibade7"}
This has happened several times here in WA State over the Governor's seat. It gets old.
{"commentId":4691935,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"jibade7"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4692528,"authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
words republican and hypocrite are one of the same
Yes, this statement is reduntant. :)
{"commentId":4692528,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":4696508,"authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
Well; the words republican and hypocrite is one of the same these days isn’t it.
Normally I wouldn't jump into believing such blanket labels, but as of recent, there is alot of evidence to suggest it.
{"commentId":4696508,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4690905,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
I'm sorry I am pulling for the funnier of the two. I have not heard Coleman's material yet.
{"commentId":4690905,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 7 votes
#7 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 5:27 PM EST{"commentId":4691957,"authorDomain":"jibade7"}
Franken was funny, I really like him on the show. I don't know how either of them do in office, though.
{"commentId":4691957,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"jibade7"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4693021,"authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
When asked for a comment on the decision, Mr, Franken replied,
"This is a very good day for me, Al Franken"
{"commentId":4693021,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4694120,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
That was an old running bit. It was supposed to be the year of Al Franken. I think it was back in the early 90s.
{"commentId":4694120,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4694439,"authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
I was worried I was dating myself and no one would catch the joke !
{"commentId":4694439,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"goldenboy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4691809,"authorDomain":"ak-cousin"}
I have never been more ashamed to be from Minnesota than now - the only thing worse than Coleman is Franken. I used to think we were intelligent - I guess I was wrong.
{"commentId":4691809,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"ak-cousin"}
- 2 votes
#8 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 6:30 PM EST{"commentId":4692141,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
Where is Jesse? He can fix this!!! Ventura not Jackson for those that did not know Jesse Ventura was Governor.
Wait, isn't Carl Weathers supposed to be next in line. Everyone in the movie Predator has held office aside from Carl.
{"commentId":4692141,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4692560,"authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
Wait, isn't Carl Weathers supposed to be next in line. Everyone in the movie Predator has held office aside from Carl.
Does he live in Illinois? This would certainly solve a lot of problems.
{"commentId":4692560,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"markthemuse"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4692530,"authorDomain":"arcanebliss"}
What a sore loser.
{"commentId":4692530,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"arcanebliss"}
- 12 votes
#9 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 7:22 PM EST{"commentId":4692562,"authorDomain":"bfbell"}
What would Al Franken have done if Coleman had been announced as the Winner? The ANSWER is SUE.............
{"commentId":4692562,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"bfbell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4692719,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
What does Coleman do for work besides political stuff? I think Franken is on the radio. Maybe Carl Weathers can take over for Franken on the radio.
{"commentId":4692719,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
{"commentId":4695404,"authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
Coleman has a few nice suits though!
{"commentId":4695404,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4692573,"authorDomain":"danapointdaddy"}
I read some very interesting stuff about how the recount was a bit tilted in franken's favor... it was quite urprising, statistically, for franken to have so many new votes occur...
like gregoire in washington... more shall be revealed...
and enough hate speech about political parties, grow up you guys.
{"commentId":4692573,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"danapointdaddy"}
- 1 vote
#10 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 7:25 PM EST{"commentId":4696499,"authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
Some of it was the absentee votes. They were wrongly rejected from the original totals.
The other part was the ballot contests. More of Coleman's contested ballots were considered frivolous compared to Franken's. Most likely means that the ballot computers erroneously rejected more of Franken's ballots on election night than Coleman's.
{"commentId":4696499,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4692578,"authorDomain":"djaymo"}
We wouldn't even be talking about this at all if the congress hadn't proposed and passed that pesky 17th Amendment back in 1912-1914. Dang politicians.
Over on CNN. com the exalted leader of the RNC says Franken, Reid etal are trying to "Steal" the Senate from Coleman. They'll probably ask Special Justice Dept Agent 0014* Fitzgerald to fly in the Batcopter to take over the investigation. (*he's twice as good as 007!)
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Arthur Conan Doyle
{"commentId":4692578,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"djaymo"}
- 3 votes
#11 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 7:25 PM EST{"commentId":4693216,"authorDomain":"philc3"}
Coleman shrugged off the idea that he might concede the election to avoid a protracted fight that could leave Minnesota with only a single senator in Washington for months.
Gee, wasn't it Coleman who right after Election Day said that Franken should do the right thing and concede for the people of Minnesota?
{"commentId":4693216,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"philc3"}
- 5 votes
#12 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 8:19 PM EST{"commentId":4693279,"authorDomain":"npat"}
That's the way I heard it. TV stayings should be replaying it and pointing out Norm Coleman's poor character.
{"commentId":4693279,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"npat"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4696496,"authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
The only consistency to Coleman is that he wanted to win... regardless of the vote.
{"commentId":4696496,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4693232,"authorDomain":"ffeineandsugar"}
All I know is the old saw...those who like the law or sausagew shouldn't watch other being made. This is only going to get uglier - and so I suspect that the Franken declaration is an attempt at a fait accompli. If the Democrats can hang this in court long enough (assuming Coleman has some justification, which I think they will be able to do), then too much time will pass for anyone to do anything meaningful here.
2014, anyone?
{"commentId":4693232,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"ffeineandsugar"}
- 3 votes
#13 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 8:20 PM EST{"commentId":4693498,"authorDomain":"geejay"}
What we are seeing in Coleman is just a taste of the tantrums that would have ensued from Bush had SCOTUS declared Gore the winner in 2000.
{"commentId":4693498,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"geejay"}
- 6 votes
#14 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 8:45 PM EST{"commentId":4694008,"authorDomain":"7cents"}
something stinks here.
{"commentId":4694008,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"7cents"}
- 1 vote
#15 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 9:33 PM EST{"commentId":4694636,"authorDomain":"Rixar13"}
Al Franken needs to be seated as our country needs to move swiftly to preempt the second "Great Depression" coming to towns near all of us. If Coleman would like maybe an ole style gun duel would settle it, My money is again on Al Franken.
{"commentId":4694636,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"Rixar13"}
- 5 votes
#16 - Tue Jan 6, 2009 10:32 PM EST{"commentId":4698609,"authorDomain":"ffeineandsugar"}
That's how they decided who got to be on the $20 (Andy Jackson - won his duels) and who got to be on the $10 (Alexander Hamilton - lost his).
I think Norm hopes the $6 is reserved for him!
{"commentId":4698609,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"ffeineandsugar"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4695782,"authorDomain":"ladyapr"}
Awwww! (in my best Hannibel Lechter voice) Poor little Coleman, cry, cry, cry!! Now they know how Al Gore felt!! Sucks to be you, dude!!
{"commentId":4695782,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"ladyapr"}
- 5 votes
#17 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 12:56 AM EST{"commentId":4696486,"authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
No surprise there. He just lots his career by popular vote.
{"commentId":4696486,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"slincoln-wx"}
- 5 votes
#18 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 4:00 AM EST{"commentId":4697034,"authorDomain":"flick7740"}
W Scott L
great comment above regarding the fact that norm just wanted to win, just wants to stay in the club. i think that was mccains problem too. it seems even clearer now that the election is over. he seems a totally different person......more human.
{"commentId":4697034,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"flick7740"}
- 2 votes
#19 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 7:26 AM EST{"commentId":4698576,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
I say for Coleman to let it go. Let the dems have it all. They deserve what they get.....and Franken is what they get. Guy was horrible as a comedien, so let's see how much he can screw up his great state....
{"commentId":4698576,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
- 2 votes
#20 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 10:03 AM EST{"commentId":4698618,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
I'm sorry Pat you are just wrong, Franken is a great comedic writer and comedian. I think he ran as research for a movie role.
{"commentId":4698618,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4699129,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
we can have a diffence in opinion here....can't we? I don't think he's funny. I think he is a foul mouth and have never cared for him...
{"commentId":4699129,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4699327,"authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
Probably didn't much care for George Carlin either did you?
{"commentId":4699327,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4699618,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
I liked John Belushi....
{"commentId":4699618,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4699664,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
Foul Mouth?? Tell me of your opinion of Ann Coulter, I think I heard Al Franken swear in the movie Trading Places, he was part of a comedy team Franken and Davis and a writer for Saturday Night Live.
Can you give me some sites where he has a blue dialogue, I would like to see that, I must have missed that, I bet it is funny.
{"commentId":4699664,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4699759,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
This isn't about Coulter....aren't we discussing Franken?
{"commentId":4699759,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4699852,"authorDomain":"arad"}
I thought we were discussing Coleman?
{"commentId":4699852,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"arad"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4700026,"authorDomain":"notsanta"}
I have nothing to gauge what you think is funny, I used Ann as a no funny example and Franken as a funny.
{"commentId":4700026,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"notsanta"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4700238,"authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
Wow, bet you never saw Belushi do untelevised comedy did you? Talk about foul-mouthed!
{"commentId":4700238,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4700663,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
don't think I have... loved him in Blues Brothers...
{"commentId":4700663,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4700232,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
Franken's pictures on the article...but since you want to be right, OK Coleman, read my comments again from the beginning.#20....do you think you can do that for me ?
{"commentId":4700232,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
- 1 vote
#21 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 11:36 AM EST{"commentId":4701099,"authorDomain":"gracchus"}
Both these men have an obligation to the people that voted for them to do what they can, within the scope of the law, to win.
I'd love to see Franken in the Senate (his politics are close to mine), but there is a system for resolving close elections like this one and I trust the courts. Let Coleman do what he has to do and let's bring it to real closure.
--Ti
PS. This is a statistical dead tie. There will be no great injustice either way.
PPS. I think Franken is funny, but his humor is more intellectual than broad. Like this early classic, when he asked Reagan to his face:
“Uh, yeah, earlier today, you said you were against mandatory motorcycle helmets because that was a limit to personal freedom, yet you are against decriminalization of marijuana because marijuana causes brain damage. Can’t not wearing a motorcycle helmet cause brain damage a lot of quicker than marijuana by, for example, the head splitting open so that actual material from the road enters the brain?”)
{"commentId":4701099,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"gracchus"}
- 4 votes
#22 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 12:23 PM EST{"commentId":4705143,"authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
That's a delicious quote! I can just see Reagan stammering to come up with a response...
{"commentId":4705143,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"davidjewell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4718659,"authorDomain":"ffeineandsugar"}
Priceless. Absolutely priceless. (But it was Ford that Reagan accused of playing too much football without a helmet - 1975 or 1976).
{"commentId":4718659,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"ffeineandsugar"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4702451,"authorDomain":"krizanacm"}
As a Minnesotan, this is an ugly situation - no matter how it turns out.
One thing, that is continually lost in all the legalities and quotes is that 1000 Minnesota voters either had their votes incorrectly tallied (If Franken wins) or our entire political system is corrupt and attempted to partisanly steal an election for Franken (If Coleman wins)
Frankly, this election was tainted the moment the recount happened and 1 vote got counted that wasn't before. To have 1 vote non-counted/1 vote incorrectly counted, is a failure of our system. Now we're talking about 1000+ people who had their votes not counted/counted incorrectly. Further, right now there's 400 absentee ballots, 200 hundred from each camp - that our State Supreme Court allowed the two camps simply "throw out".
I voted for Coleman, but, how can I be assured that my vote wasn't one of the 700 taken from Coleman or one of the 200+ given to Franken. It gives a whole new meaning to "Swing vote"
{"commentId":4702451,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"krizanacm"}
- 1 vote
#23 - Wed Jan 7, 2009 1:37 PM EST{"commentId":4703038,"authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
you don't know that your vote was taken away and given to Franken... we know there was some dishonesty from the Franken side.... I say let the dems have it all and see what happens to this country.... oh and you know someone on here will bring up Bush stealing the election ...they just can't get over it....
{"commentId":4703038,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"patpottsy"}
{"commentId":4706668,"authorDomain":"gracchus"}
Matt --
>> How can I be assured...?
Because if your ballot was one of the ones re-counted, it was examined fifteen times by election workers and lawyers working for your candidate. You did get the X in the right box, didn't you?
Do you think recounts are a bad idea in general? My suspicion is that the first time your own candidate loses in a close election he, at least, will disagree with you.
>> we know there was some dishonesty from the Franken side
We know no such thing. And the "Franken side" isn't recounting the ballots anyway -- that's being done by carefully balanced teams of election workers, with the court system available if they can't agree.
Let's let the system finish its job.
>> Bush stealing the election...
I'm a liberal. I'm over it. Florida was a statistical tie, and I wouldn't have minded a coin toss. I was even ready to suck it up and support Bush until he started talking about having received and overwhelming electoral mandate...
{"commentId":4706668,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"gracchus"}
{"commentId":4717998,"authorDomain":"krizanacm"}
Matt --
>> How can I be assured...?
Because if your ballot was one of the ones re-counted, it was examined fifteen times by election workers and lawyers working for your candidate. You did get the X in the right box, didn't you?
Yes, indeed it was, and if the election workers and lawyers for my candidate said - "Vote for Coleman" and the other side said "Contested" (or whatever they say). My vote went to a contestation pile that our Secretary of State (Dem), and two lawyers (picked by the SoS, 1 dem, 1 rep) decided whom I intended to vote for. Now, with all honesty, I did fill in the oval correctly so I'm fairly certain my vote was counted correctly - but - I have no idea to tell you the truth. I'm supposed to take it on "Good faith" that our Sec. of State and his two cronies are out for a fair election? Are you kidding me? Our Sec. of State is a huge advocate for ACORN...I'm supposed to believe he's looking out for the best interests of a fair election?
Do you think recounts are a bad idea in general? My suspicion is that the first time your own candidate loses in a close election he, at least, will disagree with you.
Yes, I do believe they're a bad idea...At least in the way it's being done in Minnesota right now. I mentioned above how I don't believe the canvassing board is bi-partisan, let alone is concerned at all for a fair election. The only thing either side of these parties want is to win this election - doesn't matter how - (in the immortal words of Al Davis) "Just win, baby!".
Another reason I'll cite for being against the recount: Look at Georgia. They had a similar tie - what did their state do about it? A runoff. They're done with their election and have seated a senator - yet Minnesota - is down 1 vote on the national level while this mess gets resolved.
I don't think anyone can argue - swinging 1000+ votes in an election - SHOULD be a statistical improbability...If our previous elections were accurate, further, if our future elections are going to be considered accurate.
I don't really care who wins this election, to be honest with you. I'm a conservative - and frankly (no pun intended :D), neither candidate is one I'd consider "Ideal". What I do care about is the manner in which this is going down. Just to set the record - true conservatives - don't believe Bush has done a good job. So I guess you'd have to count me in the same group that's upset about Bush "Stealing the election". Conservatism != Republican (I voted a couple dems on my ballot)
{"commentId":4717998,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"krizanacm"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4723769,"authorDomain":"gracchus"}
Matt --
Fair enough.
{"commentId":4723769,"threadId":"462505","contentId":"2280638","authorDomain":"gracchus"}
- 1 vote
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