UN curbs Gaza aid after trucks hit by Israeli fire

Because the U.N. is a joke.

Don't believe everything you read from Israeli News. Israel can be ranked right up there with Nazi Germany, their no better, no worse. Seeing children being carried out of a UN school, NO excuse, none , not-ta.......

And if you knew anything, you'd know that Hamas terrorists were launching missiles from that very building. CNN provided footage that showed Hamas launching missiles and then running  for dear life.

Seeing children being carried out of schools is a tragedy, but its even more a tradegy that Hamas would use such innocent places to carry out these attacks.

Psimon,

Usually, UN resolutions turn out to be too little, too late.  They have no teeth to enforce anything.  As it turns out, rogue states ignore the UN resolutions and member states look for ways to block resolutions.

It is standard MO for Hamas and Hezbollah to use women and children as human shields in their quest to carry out their agenda.

In the end, for Hamas, the civilians, caught in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel, are just pawns to be used in a propaganda campaign to fulfill their agenda. Of course, this works as long as Hamas can claim that Israel attacked civilians without provocation. This just the case with the civilians that died next to the school that Israel shelled as stated in the article. However, such a good opportunity for Hamas propaganda machine was ruined by Palestinian bystanders stating that Hamas operatives were launching rockets next to the school. No wonder they would not give their names to the press. They must be afraid of reprisals from Hamas as well.

And Israel plays right into that by perpetuating the circumstances that make Hamas seem like a reasonable group to support.

And if you knew anything, you'd know that Hamas terrorists were launching missiles from that very building.

since you are a CNN viewer - here are a couple of snips from CNN stories on the Gaza UN school

GAZA CITY (CNN)-- Israeli artillery Tuesday struck near a U.N. school sheltering civilians in Gaza, killing at least 40 people after, according to the Israeli military, Hamas militants fired mortars from the location.

JERUSALEM (CNN)-- A U.N. agency is demanding Israel back up its claims that Hamas was firing on Israeli forces from a U.N. school compound in northern Gaza, forcing Israeli artillery to shell the area and kill more than 40 Palestinian civilians.

...the Israeli claim is unsupported so it is not clear that firing came from the UN school in the refugee camp.

Seeing children being carried out of schools is a tragedy, but its even more a tradegy that Hamas would use such innocent places to carry out these attacks.

The Israeli targetting was intentional.  Are the consequences tragic or criminal?

Israel has been caught lying and had to admit there were no firings from the un shelter.

Meloney,

Just a note: I watch Fox news, CNN, and MSNBC to get a wide view of the news at hand. I've seen video on CNN that showed Hamas firing a rocket near a building, then running away so that innocents would die. Not only does Hamas want to eliminate Israel, but they don't mind shooting away from a school or hospital knowing that it will kill non-extremist Palestinians.

I wouldn't answer to the UN either. They would rather spend millions on decorations of the UN building in New York than to put the money in good use.

That's not a wide view. Add Infoshop, various Indymedia outlets, Democracy Now!, and some independent bloggers from the areas in question. Profit-driven corporations are not "a wide view," as they've got a bottom line, and it sure as @!$%# isn't keeping you informed.

highdrake -

I didn't mean to imply CNN was your exclusive news source but chose CNN news snips to respond to you because you said the specific information you had gathered was from CNN.  If you saw it on CNN, if it was so clear, it would have been included in CNN's written reports of the event.  It isn't.  Whatever you think you saw has not been able to be used to support the story you repeat.  If you believe the story is credible and you expect it to be bought whole show us the convincing clip.

I don't doubt for a moment that the military wing of Hamas (Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades) might employ tactics that would lure Israel into actions that would be condemned internationally.  However, the story "Hamas terrorists were launching missiles from that very building" is unsupported and now contradicted.

So what do you suggest Israel do when Hamas is firing rockets from school yards storing weapons in Mosques and using apartments for planning their attacks.  Tell me what should Israel do to defend itself.  The fact is that the weapons used by the Israelis are too expensive to waste on non military targets.  When using modern military weaponry you have to make every shot count because it gets costly money wise.  Knowing this Hamas puts weapons in areas to maximize civilian casualties.  Hamas is not the only ones who do this and I'm not talking about what I saw on the news or read in a book, I'm talking about what I've seen.  I've seen terrorist groups use hospitals to launch mortar attacks and Schools used for launching missiles.  Then when those areas get taken out then they go running and crying like they were so dreadfully wronged.  Hamas terrorist are cowardly dogs who hide behind women and childern while attacking shopping malls and schools.

The confessor:    He confesses that Hamas is the victim and he sympathises with them.    Do you really think, Hamas was out for their people and not themselves?   If your for the people, you ask for help.    If your out for yourself, you let the people Die, because of your actions.

greg: You sympathize with the IDF's relentless attacks upon a civilian enclave that is a clear violation of International and U.S. law. The right to defend yourself is proportional see article 33 of the Geneva Convention which prohibits collective punishment something that the Nazis were very fond of. That alone should give you a clue as how lawless the IDF's actions are. This is not about Hamas anymore but the total destruction of Gaza and if innocent civilians happened to get killed it's Hamas' fault even when a refugee center is bombed it's because Hamas was hiding there. This genocide pure and simple greg.

Israel, here's your solution.  Just take off your uniforms, keep the same weapons as civilians, and then kick Hamas's asses.  If Hamas kills one of your new civilian defenders, claim Hamas is murdering civilian Jews.  Make sure to pull some kids into the photos and video footage, you know, dress them up as injured and run across the field of view of the cameras.  And be sure to give thousands of rockets to the civilians on the Israeli border with Gaza so they can fire them randomly into Gaza when the Israeli freedom fighters pull out.  Tell the world the poor Israelis have no way to defend their property except for firing missiles blindly into Gaza.

Of course, launching rockets at civilians for 8 years, kidnapping and murdering people aren't war crimes if the victims are Jews.
Confessor, give it up. Hamas is getting the assbeating it so richly deserves. The real crime is that israel didn't stop them from taking over Gaza in the first place.

I thought I would look at The Guardian referencing the above article by Avi Schlaim.  Sorry I didn't get too far.  Google it and you will see,

Latest news, sport, business, comment and reviews from the Guardian, the world's leading liberal voice.

Oh, that and Avi is from Oxford, England...

Sorry, I don't buy His version of history.

Good post Gilbert...

If Avi Shlaim can call Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority "democracies" with a straight face, he truly is an intellectual moron.
After all, some ideas are so blatantly stupid, only an intellectual would believe them.

So Avi, if killing civilians is wrong, why can't egg heads like you prevail upon Hamas to stop launching rockets at civilians?

Because, unlike you, they aren't guided by reason or logic.
The only thing barbarians understand is getting their heads handed to them.

Gilbert,

I wish that everything in real life worked out as a it does in the realm of ideals and illusions of textbooks.  However, it does not.  What Avi Shlaim is stating in this article is his viewpoint as a idealist scholar with a definite opposition towards Israel and any state that supports Israel.

Since I know that other people will say this is an opinion of mine and that Avi is correct, let me quote from another source to explain my conclusion.  I am going to use the facts stated in the website for the Council on Foreign Affairs (CFA) since they are not using out of proportion adjectives like Avi is using in his editorial.

For example, Avi states that Hamas and the Palestinians only intention as follows,

As so often in the tragic history of Palestine, the victims were blamed for their own misfortunes. Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy. But the simple truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. They are no better but they are no worse than any other national group. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own on which to live in freedom and dignity.

However, everybody knows that the main position of the Hamas party is the complete destruction of the state of Israel.  Here is what the CFA states,

Since attaining power, Hamas has continued its refusal to recognize the state of Israel, leading to crippling economic sanctions.

Therefore, what Avi is stating in his editorial is a lie.  Hamas not only wants a land of their own, as Avi states, but they refuse to accept Israel’s right to exist.  The only logical conclusion is the destruction of Israel.  That is what Hamas really wants.

In another place, Avi states that Hamas, after acquiring power, it has changed their stance towards Israel.  He tries to tell this in the following paragraph,

Like other radical movements, Hamas began to moderate its political programme following its rise to power. From the ideological rejectionism of its charter, it began to move towards pragmatic accommodation of a two-state solution. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a national unity government that was ready to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with Israel. Israel, however, refused to negotiate with a government that included Hamas.

The CFA states the following about what Hamas did after taking power as follows,

Early on, some observers hoped that political legitimacy—and the accountability that comes with it—could wean Hamas away from violence. But to date, the group has refused to eschew violence and remains adamant about reversing the decision by its rival faction, the more secular Fatah movement, to recognize Israel's right to exist. In the summer of 2007, Hamas tensions with the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, a Fatah man, came to a head and Hamas routed Fatah supporters, killing many and sending others fleeing to the West Bank. The result was a de facto geographic division of Palestinian-held territory, with Hamas holding sway in Gaza and Fatah maintaining the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority government in the West Bank town of Ramallah. Egyptian efforts to reconcile the two factions have come to nothing.

Therefore, not only Hamas has actually refused to moderate their political program, but has actually broken off relations with their main opposition party, Fatah, over the main agenda of destroying Israel.  As the CFA states, Hamas actually preferred to kill many Fatah supporters instead of negotiating with them.  Again, Avi is lying.

And yet again, Avi states that Israel’s only way to deal with Hamas is to negotiate with them, as they are ready to sit down to negotiate a permanent peace agreement with a few preconditions.  Avi puts it this way,

The only way for Israel to achieve security is not through shooting but through talks with Hamas, which has repeatedly declared its readiness to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with the Jewish state within its pre-1967 borders for 20, 30, or even 50 years. Israel has rejected this offer for the same reason it spurned the Arab League peace plan of 2002, which is still on the table: it involves concessions and compromises.

I am sorry, but Israel is not going to pull back to the pre-1967 borders as Hamas or any other Arab nation wants.  During 1967, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria and Jordan with the intention of destroying Israel.  The additional land ensures that Israel has some space to regroup in case of attack.  Although Egypt and Jordan have signed peace treaties, Syria, Lebanon and other Arab nations in the area still refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist.  As a matter of fact, some of Hamas leaders operate from Syria.  Hezbollah, another terrorist group that pursues the destruction of Israel, partially controls the Lebanese government, which explains the need for the Golan Heights as a buffer zone.  However, the CFA places the willingness of Hamas to negotiate way lower than what Avi gives them credit as follows,

Hamas combines Palestinian nationalism with Islamic fundamentalism. Its founding charter commits the group to the destruction of Israel, the replacement of the PA with an Islamist state on the West Bank and Gaza, and to raising "the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." Its leaders have called suicide attacks the "F-16" of the Palestinian people. Hamas believes "peace talks will do no good," said the Hamas leader Abd al-Aziz Rantisi in April 2004. "We do not believe we can live with the enemy."

How can Avi state that Hamas is willing to negotiate with Israel if Hamas believes that “peace talks will do no good” and they cannot “live with the enemy”.  Again, Avi is lying.

One more that Avi is stating is that Israel broke the cease fire agreement that started back in July 2008 as Avi states,

It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It did so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men.

Oh really!  I thought that towards the end of the cease fire, Hamas escalated the firing rockets from Gaza into Israel.  Israel warned Hamas to stop or to face the consequences.  Hamas chose the consequences.  As the CFA states,

A six-month ceasefire calmed things somewhat in 2008, but toward the end of the year, Hamas called off the truce and resumed firing rockets into Israel.

Again, another lie by Avi.  Who actually broke the cease fire was Hamas.  Not only they never stop firing rockets at Israel, but more than double the daily amount of rockets launched (I read this one in the New York Times).

I could go on disputing Avi’s distorted point of view as to who has done what but you get the idea by now that Avi is just spreading propaganda against Israel and in favor of Hamas. 

In the end, for Hamas, the civilians, caught in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel, are just pawns to be used in a propaganda campaign to fulfill their agenda.  Of course, this works as long as Hamas can claim that Israel attacked civilians without provocation.  This just happened in the civilians that died next to the school that Israel shelled as stated in the article.  However, such a good opportunity for Hamas propaganda machine was ruined by Palestinian bystanders stating that Hamas operatives were launching rockets next to the school.  No wonder they would not give their names to the press.  They must be afraid of reprisals from Hamas as well.

The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state alongside Israel within the 1967 borders… Haniyeh told his guests Israel rejected his initiative… He said the Hamas government had agreed to accept a Palestinian state that followed the 1967 borders and to offer Israel a long-term hudna, or truce, if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights…  In response to a question about the international community's impression that there are two Palestinian states, Haniyeh said: "We don't have a state, neither in Gaza nor in the West Bank. Gaza is under siege and the West Bank is occupied. What we have in the Gaza Strip is not a state, but rather a regime of an elected government. A Palestinian state will not be created at this time except in the territories of 1967."… “Our conflict is not with the Jews, our problem is with the occupation," Haniyeh said.

--Haaretz Israel News, Nov. 9, 2008

Two weeks ago, an already fragile humanitarian situation resulting from the mounting effects of months of shortages, saw a dramatic downturn.  The fighting resumed, with an Israeli army incursion into Gaza and a retaliatory barrage of militant rocket fire.

--BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008

Israel has refused to allow cash to enter Gaza in recent weeks to ratchet up pressure on the ruling Hamas militant group. With the supply of currency dwindling, banks have limited withdrawals over the past two weeks, and some have posted signs telling customers they cannot take out any more money… The United Nations halted cash handouts to 98,000 of Gaza's poorest residents last week, and economists and bank officials warn that tens of thousands of civil servants won't be able to cash their paychecks next month… "No society can operate without money, but that's the situation we are reaching in Gaza," said Gaza economist Omar Shaban…  Israel and Egypt have restricted movement through Gaza's border crossings since the Islamic militants of Hamas violently seized control of the coastal territory in June 2007.  Since then, closures have been eased or tightened, depending on the security situation. But even in quiet times, when Gaza militants refrained from firing rockets at Israeli border towns, only limited shipments of food, medicine and commercial goods were allowed in… Shlomo Dror, an Israel Defense Ministry spokesman, questioned the seriousness of the currency shortage. "We are used to the Palestinians inventing things and we are looking into their claim,” he said.

--Washington Post, Nov. 24, 2008

Why is the fact that prior to Nov 4th and up through Nov 4th Hamas continued to launch rockets at Israel being ignored?  I would think that since Hamas has yet to "cease firing" there has never been a true ceasefire.

Perhaps because there where a few months of no rocket fire that only resumed once Hamas realized Israel was not going to hold up their end of the cease fire which was to stop the siege. and what about israel cutting off all power to the region then stopping fuel deliveries to their power plant. and no medical or food supplies not mention israel continued firing rockets into gaza, and helicopters fired on civilian buildings including hospitals and crossed into gaza and killed a dozen palestinians. israel claimed they can go and kill palestinians without violating the cease fire but when hamas fired rockets in retaliation thats a violation? thats more than the pot callling the kettle black.

Actually, during the so-called ceasefire Hamas continued to launch rockets into Isreal just in decreased numbers. 

not true i know people who went to Gaza during that time and there where no rockets

The why were rockets fired even 1 week after the so called truce in Jun 2008?

Incidents reported to be first violation of nearly week-long truce

Hamas leaders in Gaza are still committed to a cease-fire agreement with Israel despite numerous rocket and mortar strikes Tuesday, a Hamas spokesman said.

You can't be committed to a ceasefire while never ceasing fire.

They are lucky. Israel is only doing this because of international pressure.

tell the israelis to let the press in or just be quiet. you don't know jack @#$%.

But the attack on the UN truck happened during this so called 3 hour cease fire..

It already is for more than just today. Israel said that they would be observing a 3hr ceasefire every other day. [source]

the UN has aleady said three hours a day is useless except as Israeli propaganda.

3 hours is better than none at all. They better take advantage and do what they can with the time they are given.

Not shooting at UN workers is better, still.

Please see post #6.1, its not just 3hrs. Its 3hrs every other day.

yet hamas was able to get the much needed rocket right.....

hamas and the whole world knows how israel will react...why so suprised?

hamas is equally responsible for civilian casualties.....stop hiding behind civilian population.

only way to avoid civilian casualties is to avoid war once and for all......that applies to both sides.

once this war is over...hamas will once again officially call to "wipe out israel".

when you say war must stop, are you seriously comparing the capabilities of hamas with the capabilities of weapons that Israel has? 

top technologies vs home made weapons.  700 dead 50% are women and childern.

3000 injured. compared to israel 3-5 dead, and 50 injured.......

are you seriously comparing these figures? and capabilities ?

and if you say who broke the ceasfire?

please see this video CNN. 

forgot the link:

nobody mentioned comparing weapon....

but if you want to go there then you must ask this question............why the hell hamas fire their rocket towards israel when like you said they dont have the capabilities....hamas knows how israel will react............is that make sense?

dont need your history lesson and your link...ceasefire was holding for few months till this rocket attack.......

hamas agenda is not to broker a peaceful solution for the problem. not even for the welfare of its civilian (too busy smuggling rocket instead of much needed food and medicine).

BTW... Hamas firing rockets at civilian targets is a war crime... but... the civilians are on occupied territory... occupiers. No?

i thought israel is a military state? their all soldiers am i wrong? their forced to take 3 years service. (if im right...)

the question is , is there any civilians in israel older than 25 years old? 

That's a good point dsj.  Yes, the Israeli armed services are conscription and national military service is mandatory for all Jewish and Druze Israeli citizens over the age of 18.

The words used for civilian and military have been tainted in discourse of these events.  Some would have you accept that voting in an election in which some Hamas representatives were chosen implies that individual is a justified military target.

Yes.