Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Civilians in Gaza feel ‘alone in this world’

Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:50 PM EST
travel, israel, only-on-msnbc-com, gaza, hamas, gaza-strip, gaza-city, shelling, aunts, israelpalestinians, barakat
msnbc.com News — By Kari Huus, msnbc.com

The Palestinian al-Dali family cook food in a house in the Shati refugee camp in Gaza City, Monday, Jan. 12, 2009. In the al-Dali family's two-room shack in the Shati refugee camp, 21 people — half of them relatives who fled the fighting — take turns sleeping because the family doesn't have enough mattresses. For lack of fuel, they cook on trash fires — paper and cartons collected in the neighborhood. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)

Advertise | AdChoices

— Palestinian civilians caught in the middle of an Israeli military offensive in the Gaza Strip are gathering in apartment buildings and homes not yet hit by the fighting, preferring hardship to the greater danger in other parts of the embattled territory, two Palestinians told msnbc.com on Tuesday.

Nasser Barakat, a 21-year-old Palestinian student, said by telephone from Gaza City that conditions have deteriorated in the last week. As the Israeli troops moved through suburban neighborhoods trying to root out Hamas fighters and intensified attacks in the coastal areas, his aunt’s home in central Gaza City has taken on more friends and relatives forced to flee their homes, he said.

Last week, there were 10 people crowded into his aunt’s home; “we now have 21 persons in my aunt’s (three-bedroom) home,” Barakat said.

Barakat’s immediate family moved in with his aunt shortly after the Israeli offensive began on Dec. 27 because their home was near Palestinian government buildings that were under fire. But as the fighting has intensified, they were joined by friends whose home was in a suburb where house-to-house fighting is occurring between Israeli troops and Hamas fighters,  and his sister’s family, who fled their house near the Mediterranean Sea when the area came under  intensive shelling, he said.

At night, Barakat said, they lay blankets across the floor and line up side-by-side to try and sleep. But with so many people crowded into the living quarters — including five children under age 3 — and with nightly shelling, no one is getting much rest, he said.

Barakat’s aunt’s home is in the densely packed center of Gaza City. He said there the bombing has diminished somewhat since the early days of the offensive, but they can now hear gunfire and the rumbling of rumbling in the outer areas of the city. The acrid smell of phosphorous bombs drifts in through the air. 

The food situation has improved somewhat, Barakat said, with some humanitarian supplies getting through, But there is little variety — rice, beans and poor-quality cheese are daily fare. Getting bread requires a three hour wait in line, he said.  

Barakat’s university studies have been suspended since the fighting began — along with most daily activity in Gaza City — but he had been continuing to work for a Palestinian media company that is documenting the conflict. But that, too, was interrupted by intensive attacks near the company’s offices that forced him to stay away for four days. When he went back, he said, he was astonished by the devastation.

“They destroyed everything — even a park full of trees next to my work was totally burned,” he said. “When I saw it I wished I had stayed home.”

‘We have lost hope'
“For people here, we have lost hope in democracy and humanity,” Barakat said bitterly. “We have been under fire for 17 days. …. We are alone in this world. That’s what people think.”

Wafa Ulliyan, 24, spoke to msnbc.com from the city of Rafah in southern Gaza. She fled here with her husband and 7- month-old baby girl to stay with her sister after shelling came dangerously close to their home near the port of Gaza City. They managed to leave before the Israeli invasion, which would have made movement extremely difficult.

Ulliyan, who normally works as a finance officer for the U.S.-based humanitarian organization Mercy Corps., said Rafah has come under daily shelling -- though not as intensively as other parts of Gaza -- and that parts of it are too dangerous to visit. But she said her family has been able to travel to see relatives in other parts of the city, while avoiding areas that might be associated with Hamas, such as police stations, that might become targets.

But the landscape is changing.

“Yesterday they shelled a trading center in the middle of the city,” said Ulliyan. She said the shelling makes her building shake like “an earthquake.”

The number of people living with Ulliyan's sister’s family is growing too. As the Israelis undertake intensive bombing along the Gaza-Egypt border — targeting tunnels and other routes used to transport Hamas weapons — Ulliyan’s sister’s family arrived from their home in that area. A brother also fled his home in Gaza City. Now there are 16 people living in their 200-square-meter, or about 650 square foot, home, including 10 children, she said.

‘The kids are going crazy’
“The kids are going crazy,” she said. “You want to send them outside, just nearby to play, but they say ‘no, there are airplanes outside,’ and they come back in.”

Electricity has been available intermittently, but Ulliyan said that it often doesn’t stay on long enough for water to reach the building.

She said she and her husband ventured out to the nearby border with Egypt one day during the daily three-hour cease-fire to inspect and photograph damage to homes of friends and family.

“There were people picking through the damage, trying to get belongings. Others were guarding their homes,” she said.

Ulliyan said that she and her family grow more concerned with each passing hour, and each reminder of the tragedy that could befall them at any moment.

“When you see the pictures of the children who were killed and hurt, you just hold yours tighter,” she said, as her baby Dana sang in the background. “We hear that Israel plans to finish this incursion by Saturday. I hope it happens sooner.”

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Kari Huus's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Worldviews
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (140)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
Frank Bus

War today is HELL on earth, and most Nations want to have it this way, WHEN they can't have it THEIR WAY. No one is immune from this kind of DIABOLICAL activity. Men love darkness rather than LIGHT, because their DEEDS are EVIL. Anyone recognize where this is from, and WHO said IT?

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:29 PM EST
eliahu

boo hooo hoooooooo,,, stop the crying ,, if these rats wouldnt shoot rockets into innocent civilian towns ,and let there city be controlled by hamas ,,deserves everything we unleash upon those dirty roaches.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:28 PM EST
ford4peace

Your quote came from John 3:19, although I am not religious. But I will say this, I think you're right. Israel is gonna kill all of those people. The Palestinians represent all of those who has ever discriminated against the concept of Israel. And now Israel feels justified because of the rocket attacks. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch them. But violence will never stop violence.

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:58 PM EST
Lee-408976

Eliahu,

These rats are your fellow human beings.  Dehumanizing them in your mind does not deminision that one bit.  Are you so full of hate that you no longer have compasion for innocent women and children?

Bombing for peace is like having sex for virginity.  It won't work.

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:19 PM EST
JAYD-422883

You are right, violence is not right in most cases, but in certain cases when do do decide to stop trying to talk a terroist organization down from their UNPROVOKED attacks.  Israel did this for a whole 365 days and recieved an average of 8 rockets a day for their efforts.  When would you decide that they are not going to listen, 3000 rockets is a good, loud message that Hamas/Palestein does not want to talk they want to fight.  In that case Israel is jsutified in the protection of their people and their country.  War is awful but when someone is continually punching you in the face there comes a point when you need to punch back and as we have seen in history, punching back with a simple slap will not get the job done, ie: Vietnam.  One needs to go out their punch the living crap out of the terroist scum and get it over with, ie: WWII.  I feel bad for the innocent civilians that must endure the hardship but it is their government that has put this on them.  Stop the maddness and harboring of a terrorist organization and things like this usually don't happen.

    #1.4 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:20 PM EST
    Morugamax

    eliahu

    I believe your exact words were expressed by the Nazis about European Jews,its so sad to see what people can become when they loose their sense of humanity and morality.All in the name of religion and greed of a few,Hamas do not care about civilian casualties,while Israel has fallen once again into their trap.The world would not treat Israel kindly for the way they fought this war.

      #1.5 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:28 AM EST
      Reply
      1landscaper

      I am not commenting on the human loss directly, but to hammas. Why would you let this go on ? why would ( even though your goal is to destroy isreal) let this continue ? why aren't you at the negotiation table ? How can you put your people through this? Not that I even start to agree with your ideaology, where is your plan, or is your plan to have your civilian losses be so great as to have contries pity your plight. I can only say you are fools.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:39 PM EST
      schwannomin

      Hamas is born out of the desperation that comes from being occupied for decades with inadequate food, medicine, electricity. The Palestinian people have next to no education and live in refugee camps. There are no natural resources in Gaza. And even if they had them, there is a blockade on the territory therefore no trade. Israel has constructed walls surrounding Gaza and will not allow ports for shipment. When life is this horrible, death is not that bad an option. That is why the people allow Hamas to rule.

      "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees." It is a credo as old as humans.

      • 8 votes
      #2.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:51 PM EST
      schwannomin

      Also, Hamas has always been more effective at providing government services to Gazans than Fatah, or the PLO, ever was. Just like I said before, this is an occupied territory where people have nothing.

      • 4 votes
      #2.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:55 PM EST
      Wilberta Berry

      schwannomin....agreed # 2.1

      When you really envision the Palestinians living quarters in a factual way. They live in Concentration Camps without the Ovens.

      What even the justification the Israelis give, the Picture remains the same.

      • 4 votes
      #2.3 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:52 PM EST
      obamanut

      You people are all wrong... The israelis stole the land after 2000 years, being gone. the palestinians always lived there. How would you feel if the american idian tribes asked for their land back only after 200 year, they would have the right to do so after all. 200 years is not that far, but 2000 years???? ! Israelis are arrogant people just like arabs. They may not be arabs, but think alike. They don't have much respect for women either ! Also learn that some of them think that America would not be the country it is if it was not for them. THEY are the one who made america a success, without them you would be nothing. HOW ARROGANT ! They think they are the chosen ones by god, that they are special. They in fact have a lots of disdain for the rest of us not borned jewish. I was told all this by a israelis himself. His arrogance shocked me and I never talked to him again.

      You see, it is all about religion and superstitions... they won't leave israel because they believe all the fairy tales told in manuscripts written by pro middle ages people. this is why we have so much hate and wars in the world, all because of religious beliefs ! I say to the israelis... give up the land you stole. The world is wide enough for you to built yourselves new lives, somewhere else. How selfish these people are, putting the whole world at rist for a piece of sand.

      • 2 votes
      #2.4 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:55 PM EST
      eliahu

      all i have to say is ,Those arab rats conquered ,we did not sell them the land in a bad deal like the indians did.Jews would never sell land for trinkets and crap. besides  you took the land then we took it back for eternity.

        #2.5 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:35 PM EST
        Jeffreey

        schwannomin:  What are you talking about when it comes to next to no education?  They have basically the highest literacy rate in the entire arab world.  90%+, no other arab nation basically competes with that.  There are several universities that they have in gaza.  I agree though they have basically blocked gaza's borders to the sea and put pressure on egypt side of the border but for the Israelis they have every right to control their side of the border.

          #2.6 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:24 PM EST
          Reply
          dari-681905-795267

          Gee what a shame they feel all alone. Gee maybe they shouldn't have voted for Hamas. Gee maybe they should have spoken up when Hamas forceably took over Gaza. I have no sympathy for those people. Israel is really showing restraint because they could end this whole war sooner but they are trying to spare the people. As long as Syria and Iran are calling the shots for Gaza the people of Gaza are indeed all alone.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#3 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:58 PM EST
          bob5ford

          As you say, they elected a terrorist organization, Hamas, who's sole goal is the destruction of Israel. They supported and apparently continue to support terrorism and terrorists. That makes them, if not terrorists themselves, accomplices. If they want pease and prosperity with a chance at their own state someday it is easy to get. Overthrow Hamas, stop the rockets, acknowledge Israel's right to exist and they will have it. Otherwise whatever they get they brought upon themselves.

            #3.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:23 PM EST
            Wilberta Berry

            They elected Hamas in a Democratic Process that the United States initially agreed with.

            The Democratic election. Sometimes Democracy is not being a puppet or a sycophant.

            Democracy has more meanings than the American Version.

            • 6 votes
            #3.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:34 PM EST
            schwannomin

            The middle east must never forget they can elect anyone they want to their governments, so long as they are approved by the U.S. and Israel.

            Otherwise, bombs away!

            • 6 votes
            #3.3 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:39 PM EST
            Wilberta Berry

            schwannomin

            agreed!

            Sovereign Nations are suppose to be just that!  Otherwise make them another State of this Country!

            That's what happens when you have an idiot running around "spreading" Democracy every where...sometimes you get what you don't want...but it's Democratic!

            • 6 votes
            #3.4 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:47 PM EST
            punjani

            schwannomin, you are bringing some interesting points.  I agree.

            • 3 votes
            #3.5 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:30 PM EST
            Samva

            Ya must be high on some strong drugs to think that . The far left is are mentaly deranged its a disease bred in some drug stupor. These morons voted for terrosit to lead them that want to kill all the jews , did they honestly think the jews would sit back and let this happen. The muslims dont want peace they just want to die and get there virgins in heaven.

              #3.6 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:08 PM EST
              MrIndia

              There are four major religions in the world -

              Christianity, judaism, Islam and Hinudism.

              Islam has problem with all the rest and all the rest do not have any problem among each other.

              What does that tell you ?

                #3.7 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:54 PM EST
                worldworrier

                That says it ALL... all of the problems in this part of the world seem to stem from Islamic hatred for anyone and everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs and that is what will eventually be their downfall (hopefully)... it's too bad because this isn't what true Islam is all about!  It only takes a few to spoil the whole!

                  #3.8 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:08 PM EST
                  Reply
                  bob-311683

                  the people of gaza and palestein voted hammas into running their country complete with rocket attacks to israel and suicide bombers and when israel said enough and started leveling gaza because of it you are crying. you stupid people brought it on yourself and deserve to be wiped out or moved to someplace else or die.  the arab community also shares the blame because of their past practices for giving all suicide bombers 25000 in us dollars. you are a bankrup society and are getting just what you deserve. 

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#4 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:00 PM EST
                  Tee-813558

                  Why did a European Christian-Jewish conflict (WW II) result in the destruction of peace between the semitic peoples (muslims-christians-jews) that have lived in peace in Palestine? The sole exceptions was during the Crusades when you guessed it, Europeans decided that this foreign land belonged not to the indigenous populations but to them. Did the Arab or Muslim people of the region perpetrate or encourage the holocaust of the European Jew?

                  Just imagine what would happen if an African or Asian cabal of of foreign leaders decided that America must give up one of it's states to the victims of genocide in Darfur, Rawanda, or the Congo. Would the citizens of this state be treated as terrorist if they did not voluntarily leave the land of their ancestry?

                  There will not be peace in the middle-east as long as Israel exist, period. The indigenous semitic population will never submit to to "foreign" oppression, nor should it. Dark skinned peoples of the world have been branded as uncivilized and warlike-barbarians by the European aggressors for a millennium, but now the fear of the Europeans ability to commit genocide has faded. Fear has been replaced by the universal proclamation of, Give me liberty or give me death.

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#5 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:02 PM EST
                  MK-813574

                  There has been a continuous "indiginous" Jewish population in Israel since Biblical times. This little tiny part of the Arab world is ours. Get over it.

                  • 1 vote
                  #5.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:17 PM EST
                  Reply
                  iggy-813568

                  Last time i checked 200 square meters were 2150 square feet, not 600. I guess facts are secondary and do not need to be verified when it comes to MSNBC's reporting.

                  • 1 vote
                  Reply#6 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:07 PM EST
                  greg-367337

                  The reason journalists get into the field is because it doesn't require math skills.

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:36 PM EST
                  asknreceive1

                  Yep, good catch. . I noticed that as well.  Maybe Joe the Plumber is giving this writer the info feed???  Integrity and truth in reporting isn't necessary anymore.  People read and believe what they want to read and believe EVEN IF the facts within are wrong.  Good work!!!

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:36 PM EST
                  Reply
                  MK-813574

                  I am eagerly awaiting the next interview with a family living in Sderot who has been under constant barrage from rockets sent from Gaza despite the "cease fire." It is a shame that Hamas decided that instead of renewing the cease fire in December it decided instead to try out its new stockpile of longer-range rockets in an attempt to injure even MORE innocent Israelis trying to go about their daily lives. The media seems to lose sight of the fact that this was a defensive action. And that much of the devestation is from the secondary explosions from stockpiled weapons and bombs at the site of Israeli attacks. Despite the lead-in to this interview it is amazing how much coverage is getting out from Gaza to the world media--and very little from Israel.

                    Reply#7 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:11 PM EST
                    libran12-769348

                    can we all say palestinian pawns,,,being used by their own as human shields,,,how sick!

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#8 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:16 PM EST
                    Sidney-789944

                    As an American I cannot understand you damn ignorant idiots.  America screams that it's all about freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...but does that not apply to others?  IT'S THE OCCUPATION YOU MORONS!  We fought ours against the British in 1776 and got our freedom, many South Asian countries fought and killed for theirs from British, French, and Spanish in between 1900-1948 and got their freedom.  The South Africans fought for their freedom and finally got it just a few decades ago.  The PROBLEM IS THAT ISRAEL OCCUPIES ANOTHER LAND, NOT that the OCCUPIED are fighting for their freedom. 

                    The Continental Army of America was called terrorists by the British when fighting for Independence.  The apartheid rulers called the Africans terrorists as they fought to gain control of their lands.

                    If you hate freedom of others so much than start by giving up yours.

                    Hamas is fighting for the freedom of their people.  They did not start this war.  They did not start this current situation either.  There was a siege by the Israelis for the last 18 months, ever since Hamas won elections and was going to govern itself.  Israel with the American govts backing stopped the elected govt from succeeding.  6 months ago Hamas agreed to a truce with Israel which clearly stated the terms...no rockets, end the siege on all of its borders, no incursions into Gaza by Israel.  READ the facts and you'll see that Hamas did NOT break this...the Israelis did.  During the truce Israel did NOT stop the siege, it did not let up more than 10%.  Israel during the US election came into Gaza and killed multiple people, so called militants and also civilians.  Only after the 6 month truce was over days later did Hamas say that there is no reason to keep up a fake truce and responded with rocket fire.

                    Am I saying Hamas is 100% right?  Absolutely not, but NO ONE UNDER GOD'S GREEN EARTH can justify murdering 900+ people with 350+ being children and say the Occupying force had a right to defend itself against the nuisance for some crude rockets.  If they were so tired of the rockets than they should've given those people their freedom.

                    Before opening your mouths open your mind.  Learn history, not what CNN or Fox tells you.  Learn the facts not the hype.  Balance your views. 

                    A PROUD AMERICAN

                    • 9 votes
                    Reply#9 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:23 PM EST
                    A-813633

                    I cant tell you how refreshed I am about what you wrote. You have said everything that I've been fighting to say to some of these ignorants. You should go onto Yahoo and write the same thing because the yahoo users are much more aggressive and hateful of Palestine and Muslims than anywhere else.

                    Thank you for your correct research.

                    • 4 votes
                    #9.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:43 PM EST
                    VET-719955

                    A foolish post. What should the response have been? Perhaps a harsh letter to the UN with the same forwarded to Hamas? That might have worked.

                      #9.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:08 PM EST
                      Optomyst-

                      Perhaps Hamas should move their weapons to military installations instead of placing them in civilian areas.  They care not one damn for their citizenry, that's why.  And as far as freedom, how many bombs would have to fall into YOUR neighborhood before you would retaliate?

                      • 1 vote
                      #9.3 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:14 PM EST
                      LIKSHA

                      We are going to get worse.

                      The reason why people can be pushed over the edge with so little info is because we've raised our children that way. They're grown and powerful now. They vote now

                      1990's - ADD/ADHA - Microwave/quick-fix nation and children

                      The following posts will show you a lack of understanding.

                      THEY WILL HAVE YOU THINK I DON'T LOVE THE COUNTRY I RISKED MY FREEDOMS FOR.

                      They voted for Bush Twice.

                      • 2 votes
                      #9.4 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:20 PM EST
                      Aftershock57

                      Well that just settle that....let's let everybody know what you have so righteously determined.  That should end it all.

                      No facts in anything you have written so why the post ?  If it's just your position fine....but don't claim what you wrote is fact....

                      • 1 vote
                      #9.5 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:26 PM EST
                      Json-703315

                      According to your logic Sidney, the USA shouldn't be the USA really. After all, you and your citizens are "occupying" the land of the locals (Native Americans).  So if the tribes located in Oklahoma, Wyoming, Montana and other states started attacking US citizens, you would be ok with that? You would say the Native Americans are really fighting against their occupiers? Ha!

                      You need to get YOUR facts straight. Jews have lived in the middle east lands for THOUSANDS of years, along side the arabs and christian. The land has been conquered by every powerful european country since the dawn of mankind (Romans, Persians, French and Britians).  Funny you mention the American-British revolution because the Jews fought the Britts when the Britts occupied the middle east. So how, exactly, do you consider the Jews the occupiers when they fought AGAINST the British occupation?? (Your're brilliant)

                      Anyways, the conflict you see today is the result of really a human instinct: shelter/protection. You see, the jews were established in the middle east where they enjoyed freedom and protection. There wasn't an oppresive govt in place like everywhere else in Europe. Therefore, massive immigration of Jews into Palestine increased tensions between Arabs and Jews. As tensions increased both sides formed armies. Once British released control of the middle east, the Jews declared Israel a nation. The Arab countries surrounding Palestine and Israel declared war.

                      Gaza has a history unto itself. Read up. You'll learn Egypt occupied Gaza, fired rockets into Israel even (sound familiar), and when Israel had enough of Egypt's threats and attacks, they defeated Egypt and took Gaza.  --Imagine that...people fighting for their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The latest wave of violence in Gaza and the middle east has a long, long history that somehow you have completely missed...

                        #9.6 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:58 PM EST
                        ObamaNation-729845

                        Thanks, Json. I was going to post the same message, but it's good to know that others also know their history.

                          #9.7 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:12 PM EST
                          asknreceive1

                          It is unfortunate that a few rotten apples spoil the entire bunch, but that is what has happened to affect the perception of the Palestinians by Americans and other world citizens.  Hamas was and is a terrorist organization and a antagonistic entity to Israel.  One could argue that both the Israelis and the Palestinians can lay "claim" to this disputed territory based on preference of historical accounts.  Most "Christians" base their view point on Biblical references to the Israelites (as they were formerly known) being the recipients of this land by God himself.  Others, and they number many, who do not believe in the Biblical accounts or who choose to form their view point from more secular resources would argue, as you did, that the Arabs had the land first.  The Christian belief is a very, very strong and unbreakable belief system.  It is so strong that the American government policies are deeply rooted in this belief.  This conflict between Israel and Arabs is so wide, so deep and so complex that I believe it will never be resolved.  It is ludicrous for anyone to call for the complete elimination of the Jews, as Ahmadinejad did, and to deny that the Holocaust never happened.  That view point is extreme and erroneous, to say the least.  On the other hand, the Arab population and historical records from the time of British rule and their subsequent withdrawal of that territory ,more than slightly suggests that Arabs were simply moved out of the area they occupied so that the State of Israel could be created.  The U.S. was the first country to ever officially recognize the new state, and it does not appear that the U.S. intends to change it's belief system and/or change it's political and financial support of Israel.  While Israel may and, I suppose, does spark the anger and ire of the former occupants of that territory, Israel does NOT present a threat of terror to other civilized and more forward thinking countries around the globe.  On the other hand, Arab Muslim heretics DO present terrorists factions that have not only threatened violence worldwide, but have acted out their threats in the most vicious and inhumane ways possible.  Hamas, Hezbollah and Al-Queda (let's not forget the PLO of past) are now the most visible face of both Arabs and Arab Muslims to the world, and, therefore, are perceived as a threat to everyone on this planet.  If not for their insatiable hunger to harm innocent people around the world, sentiments towards their "plight" might be viewed in more tolerable ways.  It's very difficult to argue any point on behalf of anyone associated with these terrorists organizations when their own agenda is to destroy all "infidels", without regard for human life at all.  We're not afraid of Israel or any Jews car bombing or flying airplanes into our buildings and governmental offices, but we KNOW that the Arab sponsored terrorists groups HAVE done these things and WILL continue to do things till time indefinite.  Do not think for one second that the Palestinians or any other Arab country in that region that is antagonistic towards the Jewish people and any country that supports the Jewish people will settle for any "compromise". . .they want it ALL.  There is no "truce", there is no "goodwill" and there is certainly no "common ground" with these people.  They deny Israel's right, as well as the Jewish people's rights to event EXIST!  How do you negotiate ANYTHING reasonable with people who aren't reasonable???  It's blood and land they want, and nothing short of complete elimination of the Jewish people and the State of Israel will appease them.  By the way, I would like you to keep in mind that the people who settled in these United States BOUGHT many of the territories for MONEY in order to gain control and ownership of this land.  Yes we fought the British, but moving on down the time line, the U.S. had to barter and purchase some of the territories controlled by other foreign governments.  Does the Louisiana Purchase between U.S. and France in 1803 for what is now 15 individual states, ring any bells??  Until the "terrorists" stop "terrorizing" the world, no one can deal with them on any diplomatic or practical level.  THAT is why there will never be stabilization or peaceful cohabitation in that part of the world.  Unreasonable people can't be reasoned with.  By the way, WHERE ARE the OTHER supporting Arab nations in terms of supporting their downtrodden "brothers in arms?"  Nowhere to be found. . .what does that tell you about the internal relationships between the Arab countries/states???  I think it clearly shows they don't even cooperate or like each OTHER because they can't even agree as to the nature and mandates of their common religion!  The only people they hate more than each other, is the U.S. and Israel.  They've cross now from being "unreasonable" to being "self-destructive."  They cannot and will not EVER lose their love of the fight.  It is sad, but true.  The Middle East always was and always will be the proverbial hot bed of dissent, and a threat to all otherwise civilized settlements around the world.

                          • 3 votes
                          #9.8 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:16 PM EST
                          asknreceive1

                          Using SYDNEY'S logic, the Iraqi people have every right to take up a full on, outright military offensive position against the entire U.S. in the U.S.  After all, WE invaded their sovereign nation in order to topple their leader, government infrastructure, communities and way of life . . .and we're not even interested in occupying their land or in occupying an adjoining territory.  We don't even have an interest to a claim for their land and/or resources.  Thousands upon thousands of lives have been lost in the Iraq war, including more than 4,000 of our own U.S. troops.  You're certainly LOUD and proud, I'll give you that.  But you need to think about what you write before you use discussion points that can be turned against your logic in one fale swoop.  Just curious, are you AS concerned about the value of the Iraqi lives that have been lost or even the American lives lost in 9/11. . . just asking.

                            #9.9 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:52 PM EST
                            bob wallace

                            to 'asknreceive1': re your post #9.8: you have the most 'spot on' comment on this subject.  almost all americans have no idea that the arab world really doesn't care one bit about the palestinian people.  it's all a lot of 'show' for the world press when they demonstrate their support.  instead of sending weapons, indoctrination, and vitriole for the palestinians to use against israel, if the arab wealth had supplied infrastructure, housing, commercial/industrial projects, etc., they would be a lot happier and better off, and living in peace.    

                            but, this will all be a moot point in our lifetimes.  care to make a prediction in what year the israeli flag will be torn down for the final time?  I predict the year 2020.

                            look up brueghel's painting 'triumph of death', painted 400-500 years ago.  I have renamed it 'israel in the year 2020'.    there aren't any 'humanitarian windows' or restraint used.  

                              #9.10 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:29 AM EST
                              Optomyst-

                              Let's hope they continue to "not care."  The last thing anyone needs is the Arab world getting involved with Gaza.  Let's remember, too, that the Palestinians of Gaza are the ones who were thrown out of Jordan, because Jordan didn't want their radical ideas.

                                #9.11 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:34 AM EST
                                asknreceive1

                                bob wallace:  Clearly you understand this situation in it's most primitive terms.  Thank you for the reference to Brueghel's painting. . .I have to agree with you.

                                Optomyst:  We spoke too soon.  Lebanon has entered the arena.  It was inevitable, but I would venture to say that the faction in Lebanon is just another arm of Hamas, or at least a similarly inclined and small group.  Have they forgotten the last time they took a swing at Israel?  Insanity and amnesia must be a by product of ignorance.

                                  #9.12 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:28 PM EST
                                  Reply
                                  VET-719955

                                  What would be the proportional response for 3000 rockets fired into the USA from Canada or Mexico?

                                    Reply#10 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:05 PM EST
                                    Optomyst-

                                    Spot on, Vet.  I'm so tired of these bleeding hearts.  If the Gazans got rid of their hateful, vengeful Hamas government, perhaps they could live in peace and prosper.  They have been subjugated to extremism for so many years, now they feel sorry for themselves.  If they would clean up their own mess, pehaps they would be better off.

                                      #10.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:10 PM EST
                                      VET-719955

                                      Egypt and Jordan appear to have found a way to live with Israel. I would guess the Palestinians could too.

                                        #10.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:20 PM EST
                                        Reply
                                        LIKSHA

                                        Katrina showed us that we can look like those other countries.

                                        911 did too.

                                        The pain on their faces doesn't move us to act.

                                        Caylee/Benet is what the face must be for us to act.

                                        Do you think they care about the pain in our faces overseas?

                                        There are terrorists oranizations everywhere in America.

                                        They've helped build America.

                                        They're attempting to generate another act as we speak.

                                        They're going to attempt again the murder of the POTUS.

                                        The US government knows this.

                                        They are America's  Hamas.

                                        Israel, or any other nation will not stop them.

                                        ......and I'm not even going to get into the "Projects".

                                        The projects, America's Gaza!

                                        The US government allows them to exist.

                                        We are no different from the rest of thhe world.

                                        We just look and act different.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        Reply#11 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:08 PM EST
                                        VET-719955

                                        A thought. When you get to Key West you are only 90 miles from Cuba and freedom. Free medical care, free education, a guaranteed job. Give it a shot. When you get there blog about your success and what you don't like about Cuba. See how that works out for you.

                                          #11.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:14 PM EST
                                          eliahu

                                          lmfao ..thats all i have to say . right on brother

                                            #11.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:44 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            Optomyst-

                                            What amazes me is that everyone hates America, everyone is critical of America and yet everyone wants to come here.

                                              Reply#12 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:11 PM EST
                                              LIKSHA

                                              VET/ OPTOMYST, comment  9.4

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #12.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:21 PM EST
                                              VET-719955

                                              And you voted for Obama once. A signular representative of the generation you lament. What has he done, demonstrated, earned, or achieved other than being personable? Apparently that was enough. So be it. The country will survive despite your pessimism.

                                                #12.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:32 PM EST
                                                LIKSHA

                                                VET, I didn't vote this year.

                                                Obama has openned a dialogue that is passionate between millions of us all at the same time.

                                                That's a start. A start of reflexion

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #12.3 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:37 PM EST
                                                Wilberta Berry

                                                Not every person on the Planet wants to come to or be an American. We would have a larger population if that were true.

                                                Plus the ones who "really" what to come here are turned away all the time.

                                                • 3 votes
                                                #12.4 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:41 PM EST
                                                Reply
                                                LIKSHA

                                                Study your history. If you are in line with the masses in a sick society, then you are not the rebel you were advised to be by the greatest man the world has ever known.

                                                He also believed in removing your internal demons, before you can rightfully remove them from others.

                                                We've had our civil war, and genocides. Now it's their turn.

                                                That's how the world of sick men turn.

                                                Take more time to overstand, and use the third eye more.

                                                We greatly need you to.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#13 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:28 PM EST
                                                VET-719955

                                                Got it. You could use some rest.

                                                  #13.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:34 PM EST
                                                  Optomyst-

                                                  Strange comments from that woman, Vet.

                                                    #13.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:47 AM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    smcvey

                                                    They should feel alone.  These are the people who were stupid enough to vote for Hamas

                                                      Reply#14 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:31 PM EST
                                                      iceman66

                                                      Any Country or Nation that supports terroists in it's midst should feel alone in the world they are allowing to be destroyed.

                                                        Reply#15 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:38 PM EST
                                                        LIKSHA

                                                        The worst thing is people don't seperate people.

                                                        Kill'em all, and let God sort'em out, right.

                                                        I'm not responsible for Bush's actions.

                                                        I will never say that to a foreign terrorist, but it's true.

                                                        There are at least a half billion people in our world that think we're evil, or something.

                                                        They're wrong to clump me together wiith KKK and Nazis.

                                                        Sooner, or later we'l have a single group of Americans terrorizing overseas. I'm not them. I spread thought and reserve because the fight isn't going anywhere.

                                                        The fight is in our souls. If we don't have a person to fight. We'll find someone.

                                                        We'll create an enemy.

                                                        We have.

                                                        Us men. So I'm a man hater now?

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #15.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:49 PM EST
                                                        VET-719955

                                                        How did you arrive at the half billion figure? Why do you have so little respect for this country? Are you on the street? Are you hungry? Are you angry? Are you stupid? Are you just ignorant?

                                                          #15.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:05 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          PDIDDY2

                                                          "WITH ALL EYES WATCHING...REMEMBER 911"

                                                          with all eye watching, the nations beheld a world changed forever in the twinkling of an eye

                                                          left with the thought provoking question of why this evil happened, we ask "why lord, why?"

                                                          was this the evil actions of just a hateful few...? or judgement for our sins?

                                                          perhaps a painful wake up call to show us that when spreading hate, there are no victors, absolutely no one wins

                                                          now is not the time for blaming others, it's time for self-reflection...

                                                          individually searching the depth of our own heart and seeking God's direction, his word will be our correction

                                                          asking Him for this constant affliction to replaced with His benediction

                                                          then, with all eyes watching...as it's foretold, we will remember nothing of old, as His "rule" and His kingdom the meek shall behold

                                                          WHEN YOU SPREAD TERROR, IT'S CALLED TERRORISM...LET'S CALL IT HOW WE SEE IT...THE WORLD IS CALLING FOR A HALT  TO THIS UNNECESSARY BLOOD SHED

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#16 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:57 PM EST
                                                          LIKSHA

                                                          Now the thread has changed to where overstanding has a platform.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #16.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:03 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Mainesongwriter

                                                          In song: "LULLABY FOR A CHILD IN WAR"

                                                          (free download)

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#17 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:58 PM EST
                                                          LIKSHA

                                                          Who writes it, when?

                                                            #17.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:03 PM EST
                                                            Reply
                                                            lowrider-686723

                                                            Well if they feel "Alone" then they shouldn't have let their country been taken over by a terrorist group (Hamas). If they really wanted the fighting to stop they (Palestinians) should band together and round up all those scum bags and march them to the nearest Israeli troops.

                                                            The only way they will ever have peace there is if the "people" take a stand against the ones who feel that terror is the only way to maintain their archaic values.

                                                            If they did that the world would put pressure on Isreal to let them have their own land (country).

                                                            It is terrible what is happening to the innocent people there, but you can't just sit by while criminals are launching rockets into the next country, and expect to escape the "fallout".

                                                            If the drug cartel in the border cities of Mexico started lobbing rockets into TX or CA and the Mexican government didn't do anything to address the problem you can bet that we would take matters into our own hands and the innocent would suffer along with the rest.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            Reply#18 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:14 PM EST
                                                            LIKSHA

                                                            Say that again. Replace Palestine with Mexico. Replace Hamas with cartel, then you'll see. Good people who are dying are just trying to go to work young one.

                                                            They run Mexican everything. The Cartels runn America too. They tell us everyday they can cross borders with guns, drugs, slaves, gangs, and disease.

                                                            Mexico can't, we can't stop it, so doon't be suprised Palestinians can't.

                                                            Could you imagine a neighborhood of sweet grandmas and kids kicking out the bloods, or crips gangs.

                                                            Hamas is wrong, Crips are wrong, KKK - wrong.

                                                            You guys just gave me permission to harm all of your lil suburban kids, because of the skin heads next door.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #18.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:23 PM EST
                                                            lowrider-686723

                                                            I understand that all they want to do is live their lives in peace with out fear, but in their case they have to make that happen instead of wishing for or expecting someone to do it for them.

                                                            Nothing in this life is free or comes without sacrifice, especially freedom.

                                                            Get a clue....

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #18.2 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:30 PM EST
                                                            Reply
                                                            James-811381

                                                            wouldnt bother trying to explain in too much depth to people, its too deep, they just wont understand why Hamas has perfect conditions to operate concidering nobody in the international community feels like siding with the underdog, a few rocket attacks that harmed zero civilians fired from thug operatives doesnt pave the way for retaliation at this level. You clowns that think they show restraint not whiping them out....did you miss the class where they taught you about ideas and how you cant kill them, specifically in this case where a people are being suppressed at all levels and have nowhere to turn. Wake up, this is why nothing changes, nobody learns, nobody seems to care. Typical apathy. This doesnt mean im supportive of Hamas either lol give me a break, but these are the consequences of bad decisions and tired opinions. Last point to make is that they are doing exactly what was done to them in the past, and because of the United States not caring what people think now nations like Israel dont care what people think, so much for the UN. Now we have zero credibility with these countries thanks to quite a few no brainers. Almost to the point of being a puppet as we continue supplying israel and at the same time asking for restraint, in which they are replying go.....yourself. The only way out of these situations is to literally win the hearts and minds of the people and show them like we are finally doing in Iraq after all these years....that we truly want them to be free, in time Hamas will easily loose support with the backing of the world, its really not that hard to figure out. This doesnt mean leaving good ole boy israel to distribute supplies.....LOL anyone confused by this should ask there buddy joe wehelzenberger whatever the hell his name is whats what, concidering he couldnt even tell hed benefit under a tax plan with simple math i doubt he can think his way through this mess hes in hahahaha.

                                                              Reply#19 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:27 PM EST
                                                              jim-350736

                                                              Children die and we cheer.

                                                              We are truely lost.

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              Reply#20 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:32 PM EST
                                                              asknreceive1

                                                              I  do not agree with your statement that "we cheer."  That is certainly not the case in my particular circle of influence.  The carnage is unthinkable and heartbreaking.  For the record. . .you don't see ANY Americans dancing in the street, burning Hamas flags and screaming "Death to the Palestinians!"  However, images of many Arab's doing that exact thing in response to American's 9/11 horrors are burned in my brain. Remember what we're dealing with here.  It is a far bigger and far deeper conflict than could be captured in mere talking points.    My prayers are for an end to this conflict sooner than later, and that some sort of resolution to land division can be reached.  That said,  Hamas, I fear, will just reappear.  Terrorists have an uncanny way of reinventing themselves over and over and over again.  This will not be the last conflict of its kind, that's for sure.  We would have to go back to the beginning of civilization to solve this one, and I don't think Hamas is that interested in resolving the conflict anytime soon.  If you are going to put blame on anyone or any group as condemnation for putting their people in harm's way and for CHEERING the destruction of communities and civilian lives, put it where it belongs. . .on Hamas! 

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #20.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:03 PM EST
                                                              ol doc gold

                                                              asknreceive, just read these posts, people on both sides are ridiculous in their blood lust.  The same people that bring up the video of the arabs dancing after 9/11 are doing the exact same thing here.

                                                              To find pleasure in the death of either side is sub-human.

                                                                #20.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:57 PM EST
                                                                Reply
                                                                lowrider-686723

                                                                And if the KKK started bombing my city or neighborhood you can bet me and a couple thousand others would do what we had to to stop them.

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                Reply#21 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:33 PM EST
                                                                ObamaNation-729845

                                                                Seriously, the liberal slant of most news groups is sickening. How many times is the word, "Hamas" found in the article above? Zero. Did they think we'd forget that fact if they just casually left it out?

                                                                You can't want peace if you elect a terroristic group to be your leaders. You can't want peace when you launch 1000's of missiles into Israel.

                                                                Hamas wanted a war with Israel and they got it. So why are people here crying for the "poor" Palestinians?

                                                                And for the Koolaid drinkers who's only defense is, "America isn't perfect" - what's your point? No country is. As long as there are 2 humans on this planet with different beliefs there will be war. The sooner you get used to that idea, the easier it will be to understand history instead of just whine about it after the fact.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                Reply#22 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:34 PM EST
                                                                ol doc gold

                                                                I still don't get the idea of a "liberal" slant, I mean yeah I get how the neocons have tried to plant the fear-seed of liberals being pro-terrorist anti-American and all. 

                                                                But in this case, any misinformation that may come out of this mess can be blamed on Israel, they control access to Gaza, they are denying foreign press.  If they impede the press, they can't complain about the coverage.

                                                                  #22.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:54 PM EST
                                                                  VET-719955

                                                                  The neoliberals are the media.

                                                                    #22.2 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:53 AM EST
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    C.E. Daly

                                                                    I remember after the September 11th attacks Palestinians dancing in the streets and praising the hijackers.  I remember Gazans voting for a terrorist organization to run their government.  I remember Gazans and Palestinians wanting their own homeland and Israel being pressured by the US to give them one.  Smart play on Israel's part is to give the Palestinians their own lands, their own country.  Stupid part on Hamas, if one sovereign nation attacks another, the consequences can be severe. 

                                                                    I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.  Imagine what would happen if Mexican drug lords launched missiles into Texas.  You think Texas would sit by and say "okey dokey?"  The pictures of the devestation and the deaths of innocent children is heart-wrenching.  When the US bombed the hell out of Japan and Germany in WWII, do you think there were no such deaths.  War is ugly.  War is death.  If you don't like it, then don't start it.

                                                                      Reply#23 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:42 PM EST
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      lowrider-686723

                                                                      The basic fact is that there is hatred and intollerance all over the world. But if you don't take a stand against it you are guilty of the worst kind of indifference and the consiquences shouldn't be a surprise.

                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                      Reply#24 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:47 PM EST
                                                                      1landscaper

                                                                      good post lowrider; with all the bleeding hearts out there a picture moves them more than reality

                                                                        #24.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:08 AM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Sillyacious

                                                                        Great one sided story. Are we to believe that this same Hamas government that rules over Gaza and smuggles bigger and more powerful and accurate rockets from the outside world, cannot provide for their own people? These Gazans need to look at what they elected and the type of leaders they have. If they are strong enough to fire at Israel and pound their chests about it to the world, why are hiding under a hospital? Let the people look at the PLO and Hamas who are steeped in hatered for Israel that the cannot even envision what a true Palestinian country would look like. Internal review is what they need. Not blind rage at Israel.

                                                                          Reply#25 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:51 PM EST
                                                                          Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
                                                                          Leave a Comment:
                                                                          You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                                                          You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                                                                          (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                                                                          Newsvine Privacy Statement
                                                                          As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                                                          FUN STUFF:
                                                                          • Leaderboard |
                                                                          • E-Mail Alerts |
                                                                          • Top of the Vine |
                                                                          • Newsvine Live |
                                                                          • Newsvine Archives |
                                                                          • The Greenhouse
                                                                          COMPANY STUFF:
                                                                          • Code of Honor |
                                                                          • Company Info |
                                                                          • Contact Us |
                                                                          • Jobs |
                                                                          • User Agreement |
                                                                          • Privacy Policy |
                                                                          • About our ads
                                                                          LEGAL STUFF:
                                                                          • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                                                                          • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                                                                          • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com