Democrats seek criminal probe of Bush 'abuses'

The results of a 9/11 style commission investigation would be interesting.  On the surface it looks like Bush and Cheney both abused their executive power.  At the same time I would like to think the agencies involved in such an investigation would have long destroyed any evidence.

When is a GOOD TIME to bring someone in from the crimes they have committed against humanity?

American for Justice Now!

From stories I've read, George W Bush will eventually be brought  to justice, and will serve jail time.

Edward,

What stories are those? Where did you read that? Seed one, get a discussion going - I'd like to read it. Especially one with evidence in hand. The evidence is out there.

President-elect Barack Obama has been more cautious on the issue and has not endorsed such a recommendation.

For that alone, I give PE Barack Obama kudos.  A smart man does not jump to conclusions when he hasn't even taken the chair, officially.

Plus, this is a simple indication that, in Washington, it's always business as usual.

Finally....Thank You....once all of the corprorate/government criminals are held accountable the stock market will explode along with consumer confidence....until then nothing will change....because no one trusts anyone...especially wall street, corporations and government.

I hate to see government resources and so much money spent on it, but it must be done.  This is not just a poltical witch hunt.  These are serious crimes, and to allow the administrative branch to behave as dictators is a real threat to our democractic principles.

My sentiments exactly Ellen-for-Obama!

Obama's non-compliance with the constitution about his natural born status is the kind of thing that stops all investigations into Bush.  It must of been planned that way.

It is my fervent hope for those who have committed crimes in Washington and Wall Street will be held accountable. I would have to see it to believe it though - it would be the first time.   So many of us have suffered losses we can never recoup - no jobs, no money, no homes and no hope in sight.  For a "free" country, I must say things have certainly been "free" for those at the top of the pile.  The remainder of us have paid a very high price.  One can only hope PE Obama is made of "better stuff", and his cabinet a more truthful and honest group.  We should also hope those in "charge" are smart enough to get us back in the "black" - we can't stand many more failures.

If Barack does not pursue this investigation or only gives his half-hearted support, then I will not be voting in the 2012. I supported him and voted for him and going after Bush and Cheney is one of the main reasons why, but if he comes out with a "Can't we all get along, Kumbaya" speech then I won't vote for him again.

Didn't Bush go to Iraq and bring down Sadaam Hussein "for crimes against humanity"?...... Bush should be brought down for doing the same thing.  The chain reaction caused by his stupidity has caused Americans and other countries to suffer.

President Bush was authorized by the Congress of the United States to use military force in Iraq.  The Congress of the United States of America authorized military action in Iraq and voted for the funding of the war a dozen plus times.  Why do you not understand?  Only congress has the authority to fund military force, and they gave the president the authority to move with military action.  How many times do we have to say it.  Congress approved the president to use military force in Iraq, Again ( in harmony now ).

Obama's non-compliance with the constitution about his natural born status is the kind of thing that stops all investigations into Bush.  It must of been planned that way.

Brian, Quit beating a dead horse!  Obama was born in Hawaii and it is a part of the United States.  The conspiracy theories are really stupid and only an idiot would give them any merit. 

I don't want to see a witch hunt against Bush but if he and others have committedcrimes they should be held accountable.  We need to work together and get this country back on the right track and nothing should get in the way of that.  It's time that both parties work together and stop all of this partisan rambling.

Kumbaya my Bush lord! Kumbaya my Bush lord! Kumbaya my Bush! Kumbaya!

Everybody Now. Kumbaya my Bush lord!...

Obama won't go after me he simply wants peace and get us back into the black with his handy tool the "black"berry. Under 160 hours remaining until I resign.

Shub, why don't you pass that bottle around?

I am sure that there are violations. But the "foreigner detainees are prisoners of war. Not U.S. citizens. If they are to be tried it should be in a military court.

Obama has backed off the closing of the prison and releasing them to the countries they came from.

Like Bush and/or his policies and actions or not, we have not been attacked again.

Face it. The Democrats didn't have the evidence to impeach Bush and shied away from it.

The only reason for any investigations will be to raise money for the Democrats and to try to put the Republicans in a bad light. As happened with the many investigations during Congress' last term, nothing will come of it and they will have wasted time on this instead of working on our nation's real problems.

Funny ComSen how the right is so concerned about wasting time now. What about the time that was wasted in the last 8 years when we should have been working on our nation's problems? Seeing justice done is never a waste.

Oh Brian good luck to that. The housing bubble was created on the Crooked Republicans were in power.

Surely Brian you give the Democrats to much credit. They Stock Market has the largest drop in history, Banks fail, Record setting forclosures.

When all this was being set up ole W and the Repugnaklans were in the drivers seat.

Oh NS - you should know better than to jump into the middle of this one.  Good luck with it though.  You get my vote.  TTFN!

Randy from Maine.

NotSanta;

The housing bubble was created on the Crooked Republicans were in power. When all this was being set up ole W and the Repugnaklans were in the drivers seat.

That's absolute BULL@!$%#!!! You ever hear of the Community Re-Investment Act? That was Carter's gift to us, enacted in 1977. “Then in 1995, as a result of interest from President Bill Clinton's administration, the implementing regulations for the CRA were strengthened by focusing the financial regulators' attention on institutions' performance in helping to meet community credit needs. 

I'm going to give you 4 different links that explain exactly what happened, when & why. I suggest you read all 4 articles and then get off that crap about the Republicans being the cause of the financial meltdown.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo125.html

http://federalreserve.gov/newsevents/testimony/braunstein20080213a.htm

http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_21385.shtml I suggest you read this article in its entirety, you will see exactly what I'm saying about Carter & Clinton, IS TRUE.

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/409192893/m/9530027002001

See how much you can learn when you research the subject? Too bad you're too lazy to do the research. I researched it for you, now, read it and weep. The last article is especially insightful.

Oh Please brian, let me set YOU straight on just how the Republican, shoot me , beat me, do whatever I want to you, and get away with it machine works.....

First thing you need for this to work, is UNILATERAL suupport(which means, WE ALL are in this together). and of course brian, you saw what happened to those who did not...the CIA Chief, Gen.Colin Powell, Gen. Eric Shinseki, to name a few, OH the poor Agent who's cover was blown, because her husband disagreed(WOW).

Second thing is....we have to not only draw on the fears of the people, but we have to convince EVERBODY, of the LIE we have to tell, and carry out. but more that, If we can't convince those who doubt us...well, we'll make them look real UNAMERICAN.

And this my good friend is why, you had Congress vote to not only send our troops, but fund them, but the funding was done, to give the troops the support needed, that was not sent when we FIRST went in...(Yes brain I was one of those troops who needed that help). You see, the amount of troops, as well as cost, was underestimated by, not Congress, but the Republicans, who sought to have things done their way, or flip so that The Democrats will look real foolish and selfish, by not voting for the proposals. This is why brian we had all the crap going on with our government while the Republicans had control, for if the Democrats ever needed to have and agenda pushed through, then by them NOT voting the way Rebulicans liked, they can have the agenda shot down.

And now with all the crap this Administartion did, that was Illegal, they're gonna pull the same crap on Obama......which is why they sent Dumsfeld packing early( so he can't be touched), they let Libby take the hit, But KNEW full well, that he was never to see a jail cell, for he was gonna get pardoned. And we have Cheney, all but laughing at, not only the new Govenment coming in, but to the American people, Because he's all but daring anyone to try and call them to the carpet for their wrongdoing.

So from here the spins goes....Why are the Democrats, and the President wasting taxpayers times, and money, to find wrong in what we did?

Well I tell you why, It's because this country has spent BILLIONS, and have a debt in the TRILLIONS, based on a lie, that have sent myself, and my  brothers an sisters into battle, that got us WHAT??? and please don't run the, "we are safer" and "we have not been attacked again" crap, because brian, if I shoot your house up, and you round up, your family, friends, and the police....What makes you think, I'm coming back to do it again, when I KNOW your're on alert and waiting? HELLO DUMMY, Bin Laden, after the FIRST time he struck, vowed to return, did he do it right away? NO, he waited, and thus we had the events of 9-11. we lost too many soldiers to this lie, many laws have been broken, leading up to, and throughout this so-called war, and all we got for it from our leaders is....ok so we made some mistakes, we misjudged the terroists resolve, our intel was very bad..., but I feel we did the right thing...WHAT? Were was the "Why is our tax dollars being spent on crap" people then? So now they wish to come out of the holes they live, and knock Obama, who's trying to get this country back on line, Yes I would be glad to see my hard earned money spent on bringing them to justice, Because as i see it, my money already went to a LIE...why not have spent on the TRUTH?

No the republiscum was at the wheel, happened on their watch, and they will go to jail

It was the repugnaclans that pushed housing deregulation through. Help the rich get richer.

It would seem very unlikely that Obama would attempt to prosecute officials from the preceding administration - at some point, he, too, will be leaving office. 

What might be of concern to former officials:   international tribunals, such as the International Criminal Court.  

Brian...I'm not defending congress...but they only approved the war because bush and his cronies manipulated the data....they basically used data out of context and hid data that didn't help their cause....bush wanted to go to war against saddam because his father failed to bring him down...nothing more...nothing less...anyone who thinks it was because he was a threat to the US or was somehow tied to al queda (sp?) is wearing tin foil.....

The war is a legal proceeding under the laws of the world and the United States of America.  After all it has gone on longer the WW II.  Someone would have done something by now.  The congress authorized the military action, funded the military action, and the president is the commander in chief.  By the way, if you really must know what my liberal friends say about Rumsfield, I will tell you, right now.  Most of them thought he was around way too long, and provided Bush with two letters of resignation.  Congress's vote to fund and support the military action in Iraq was overwhelmingly bipartisan.  Kerry, Pelosi, Clinton, Edwards, and all of them democrats have statements on youtube.

The lie is that Obama is not a natural born citizen and accepting to take the oath of office is a criminal offence.  I hope that USSC Chief Justice is procecuted for failing to up hold his oath, and the U.S. Constitution.  Obama has spent millions of dollars keeping his seceret, and in nine days crininal complaints will be made to the United States Department of Justice.  As a law organization they have to make an investigation into a citizens complaint.  There are of course certain consequences for making this accusation, and I believe that there are some who will know how to navigate this circumstances situation.

The military is, by many peoples claim, way over funded.  Eat that apple.  Ya ya, I herd all the stuff of not having the proper equipment, and not enough of it.  This is a conservative driving point;  big government can not do anything right!  However, the military has stockpiles of everything everywhere, and they do in fact report to Congress and the president.  Not one political party, and that makes at least one item in your diatribe B(!!$&!t.  We are still stockpiling stuff from wars forty years ago that might now be illegal to use today.  Congress, which for the past forty was almost exclusively controlled by democrats until Newt Gingrich took power and forced a balanced budget on Clinton, with the contract with America.  That why us conservatives are pissed at Bush spending us into a quagmire, but the U.S. military complex is the largest organization in the world, Period. 

The war in Iraq.  Did several strategic things.  I read your comment and question if you have the cranial capacity to understand.  First.  The largest, newest American Embassy is in Baghdad, Iraq, the green zone.  These take decades to procure, design, build and occupy.  America made a commitment to this region of the world a long time ago.  Second.  Clinton bombed Iraq much more severely than Bush.  Regime change was the policy of the U.S. Government before George W,. Bush took office.  Not one peep out of the cry baby liberals of the civilian deaths from our democrat President Clinton.  Third.  Iran is more democratic, politically active, and western loving now because of the war next door, and my guess is that Iran will become the beacon of democracy shortly because of President Bush's policies, actions, and commitments to the region.

American debt is not a huge concern unless you are worried about the foreigners that own the FED as a privately held corporation.  Our government lack of debt was critized by the democrats when everybody believed that it was the republicans contract with America until the spin mindsters convenced everybody that it was actually Clintons doing, and how great it was.  Get YOUR facts straight.

AF_Veteran - if what you say is true & i shall peruse your links for unbiased information - and you take it back to Carter then I guess Brian was WRONG when he said it was the last 2 years that caused this mess (can't have it all ways - guys) - you want to blame anyone else for something our LEADER should have dealt with BUT didn't - he was too busy in his office playing with his army men on a big table - moving them around pretending he was the general

nica-its obama's fault now. (sarcasm)

One could only wish.....

but better yet, since he said yesterday in the Larry King Live exit interview, that basically he lives in a bubble and only hears what has passed thru several hands and approved for him to hear, that maybe if he called those people, that feed him false info, out and questioned why they gave false information, hed probably be somewhat of a hero for facing the truth, for once. And would actually lead to the change he promised us 8 years ago, 4 years ago, and something for Obama to hold on to.

Bush let the United Stated be attacked for the second time. It was the same target 8 years later.

The first attack in 1993 was limited to the parking structure of the World Trade Center, All were captured that were involved and now are in jail.

Bush let them fly panes into a building that had already been targeted, he had reports that Bin Laden may use planes as weapons.

And Bin Laden is still alive passing messages on to hamas

Well NotSanta you have to remember that republicans like AF_Veteran are on the wrong side of history. The Carter and Clinton administrations actually made it possible for minorities and low income people to own a home, gave them access to that. And that boosted the economy then.

Now we come to the George W. Bush who's policies took away those peoples ability to pay. It is simple for you and I because it is obvious that people without a job can not pay a debt.

They could then, but many can't now. 2.6 million people lost jobs last year, 526000 in December alone. And those numbers do not count those that are now off of unemployment compensation due to time running out.

These people that got these loans would still have those loans today if they still had their jobs.

Pretty easy for us to understand isn't it?

The historical timeline is correct for both of our comments, but I was talking about President Bush.  Here are a few links to look at.  Hopefully everyone will see my point.  Just like before they lied for their sinister democrap party and are out to ruin America.  You can go to youtube and ask for Bush poilicy on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

Hopefully this will work as the link.  Last time they did not get posted.

H

Bush sux and he will soon be under investigation and then jail!

C span testimony clearly shows that Bush clearly wanted to REGULATE Freddie Macand Frannie Mae.  This is in great detail.  All the key players are on youtube.  Go and look for yourself.

The lie is that Obama is not a natural born citizen and accepting to take the oath of office is a criminal offence.

Whatever credibility you might have had goes right out the window if you're still clinging to this whack job conspiracy theory that has been disproved by every credible source and even some not so credible ones like FOX Noise. Barack Hussein Obama is a natural born US citizen with a real authentic birth certificate that has passed all scrutiny by every legal authority.

Every aspect of Obama life has been sealed.  The Occidental College records.  The Columbia School Records.  The Harvard Law records.  Barack Obama's Birth Certificate. All of these have been Sealed.  Will he break them out for his library?  This is all about money.  Poised to make Billions.  The liberal media is taunting another Opra.

Oh dear God...

Every aspect of Obama life has been sealed.  The Occidental College records.  The Columbia School Records.  The Harvard Law records.  Barack Obama's Birth Certificate. All of these have been Sealed.  Will he break them out for his library?  This is all about money.  Poised to make Billions.  The liberal media is taunting another Opra.

Brian - please provide your sources. This should be good.

You mean you voted for this man and you do not even know his record?  That's idiotic, Period.

You mean you voted for this man and you do not even know his record?  That's idiotic, Period.

Well, that's ONE response. Another might have been to provide the sources requested.

It's public record.  You CAN NOT find out anything about Barack Obama.  Prove me wrong, PERIOD!

It's public record that you can't find out anything about Obama.  Hmm.  Is that like trying to prove a negative? 

That is not correct.  You could provide a link that has someone saying something about Obama at Occidental College.  I can provide a link from someone with a PhD. that says Obama's birth certificate is a forgery.  If someone said that about me I would get a lawyer and give him what he asks so that I could sue the living stuff ( CP ) out of that person.

You have no proof and no curiosity.  I want to know if Obunkerruski is an American and can legally hold the office of president as an American citizen.

And, that done, each of us would probably discredit the 'experts' presented by the other as being 'politically motivated' in the opinions they offer and what would be gained?

Let me ask you this (believing full well that I already know the answer).  If Obama's American citizenship could be INDESPUTABLY proved to your satisfaction (I know you think it can't be but go with me), would you accept him enthusiastically as your president?

HyPOThetical question.  I do not know the answer to that question until my first question is answered.

I believe Philip Berg at obamacrimes.com  He is a longtime democrat party person.  I do believe that there are many people out there that are not absolutely partisan, like I have become, and want the best for the country, but are willing to upset their own party members for the belief of the truth.

Now, I provided a link to someone that discredits Obama's citizenship.  You have not done that.  You asked a diversionary question like a little school girl would. 

Why are you not curiousabout the apparent new leader of the free world's citizenship, political background, and proven association with criminals as you apparently were of President Bush's motives, tactics, and behavior?  Explain that because you can not find one source of background.

You're right, I'm a school girl.  A school girl with an unanswered question.

Partisan brian? You? The person that gave George W. Bush a triple A+ grade? This thread is about Bush and his crimes.

The burden of proof here isn't on us to prove anything about Obama, the burden is on you to prove to us that Bush hasn't done the things he is accused of.

We are not talking about Obama, Clinton, Carter, or even Kennedy. We are talking about a republican president that has run this country into the ground.

That was what YOU need to dispute. Can you do that?

By the way, you supplied a website name not a link. These are links.

• 1 Rationales for impeachment
  • 1.1 NSA warrantless surveillance controversy
  • 1.2 2003 invasion of Iraq
    • 1.2.1 Constitutionality of invasion
    • 1.2.2 Justification for invasion
  • 1.3 Geneva Conventions controversy
    • 1.3.1 Unlawful combatant status
    • 1.3.2 Treatment of detainees
  • 1.4 Alleged declassification for political purposes
  • 1.5 Alleged politicization of the United States attorney offices
  • 1.6 Expanded executive powers
• 2 Political views and actions
  • 2.1 Democrats in Congress
    • 2.1.1 Kucinich Resolution
  • 2.2 Republicans in Congress
  • 2.3 State-level actions
    • 2.3.1 State party conventions
    • 2.3.2 New Hampshire House Resolution 24 (2008)
• 3 Public opinion
  • 3.1 2005 polls
  • 3.2 2006 polls
  • 3.3 2007 polls
  • 3.4 Online petitions and surveys
  • 3.5 Media response to polls
  • 3.6 Rallies and marches
  • 3.7 Groups formed to support impeachment
• 4 Call for censure
• 5 References
• 6 Further reading

Your hypothetical question was answered.  I'm sorry you have no curiosity either.  Next liberal with junk!

And another link.

Articles of impeachment against Bush presented by Kucinich co signed by...

• and 11 Co-Sponsors
  • Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D, WI-2]
  • Rep. Keith Ellison [D, MN-5]
  • Rep. Sam Farr [D, CA-17]
  • Rep. Bob Filner [D, CA-51]
  • Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D, NY-22]
  • Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D, TX-18]
  • Rep. Barbara Lee [D, CA-9]
  • Rep. James McDermott [D, WA-7]
  • Rep. Edolphus Towns [D, NY-10]
  • Rep. Robert Wexler [D, FL-19]
  • Rep. Lynn Woolsey [D, CA-6]

Amendments to H.Res.1258

Number Status Purpose

Care to dispute the artcles Brian?

Oh what have we here, another link? This one os from harpers

Harper’s Index

A few slices...

Percentage of the amendments in the Bill of Rights that are violated by the USA PATRIOT Act, according to the ACLU: 50

Minimum number of laws that Bush signing statements have exempted his administration from following: 1,069

Chance that an Iraq war veteran who has served two or more tours now has post-traumatic stress disorder: 1 in 4

My personal fav

Number of vehicles in the motorcade that transports Bush to his regular bike ride in Maryland: 6

Bush was visiting Saint Paul to see the governor. As I was waiting at a stop Bush went by. No blocked roads, no police escort, just cruised onward.

Number of vehicles in that motorcade: 2 one being the limo

From 2 to 6, rather a large jump to protect an innocent man.

Obama's non-compliance with the constitution about his natural born status is the kind of thing that stops all investigations into Bush.  It must of been planned that way.

The Supreme Court threw Berg out like smelly old trash.

It's done, you lost, it's over, and Obama will be President, stay President, be re-elected President.

Honestly, Brian, you look *such* a fool about this.

There are 435 members in the House of Representatives and 12 voted for impeachment.  That is less than 3 %.  Less than three percent of the representatives in the House of Representatives voted to impeach President Bush.

None of your other stuff has any merit.  Polls?  Who cares, in fact I want my elected officials to do what is best for the country, not what gives him the best poll numbers because the media is so biased.  The proof is that the liberty stealing liberal media will not allow anybody to buy air time to present the argument against Obama's eligibility to hold the office by way of the constitutions article II.

Brian where was McCain born, can you show me his birth certificate?

I'm curious...where's the link of the Doctor that says Obama's birth certificate is a forgery? 

How are illegal wiretaps and waterboarding any less of liberty stealing than 'liberty stealing liberal media' not allowing people to argue against Obama's eligibility?  Did Fox News go off the air?

At least Obama was BORN in the US. McCain was Born in Panama. Be Fair Brian. If you are going to apply standards to one you have to apply it to the other.

The proof is that the liberty stealing liberal media will not allow anybody to buy air time to present the argument against Obama's eligibility to hold the office by way of the constitutions article II.

Philip Berg was denied Writ of Certiorari by the US Supreme Court.  He could go on every channel of TV 24/7 and it wouldn't make a goddamn bit of difference.

He has no other recourse except violence or assassination.  And Berg's supporters have threatened both.

davetopper;

Well NotSanta you have to remember that republicans like AF_Veteran are on the wrong side of history.

Bull@!$%#! You apparently can't read because I gave you links to PROVE what caused the financial meltdown of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and you still have it wrong. And I'd also like to know how you came to the conclusion that I'm Republican. You THINK you know the party affiliation of everyone?

Now we come to the George W. Bush who's policies took away those peoples ability to pay. It is simple for you and I because it is obvious that people without a job can not pay a debt.

That's extremely funny!!! Tell me ONE policy of Bush's that took away someone's ability to pay their mortgage. You & your "theories" haven't got a leg to stand on. You are just plain & simple making things up out of plain air now. PROVIDE absolute positive proof as to your statements or STFU.

No no no Fanny and Freddie did not start this. Enron started this, then the deregulation of the oil industry, deregulation of the housing market and deregulation of Wall Street.

Sorry AF Vet, this was all done on the Republican watch. Doubt it all you want and rewrite history so you can feel better. These are the facts.

How did that deregulation of the oil industry and wall street go? Oh yes that is right $4.25 gas.

And when the oil executives came to capitol hill, the house chair (Republican) refused to put the oil folks under oath as the Democrats wanted. And what happened? They lied to congress.

This started long before Fanny and Freddie

NotSanta;

No no no Fanny and Freddie did not start this. Enron started this, then the deregulation of the oil industry, deregulation of the housing market and deregulation of Wall Street. Sorry AF Vet, this was all done on the Republican watch. Doubt it all you want and rewrite history so you can feel better. These are the facts.

You are absolutely delusional! You're the one rewriting history. You sound like that ignorant fool Barney Franks claiming Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac are financially sound.

Enron filed bankruptcy on Dec. 2nd, 2001. SEVEN YEARS AGO!!! So don't tell me Enron had anything to do with Fannie/Freddie because IT DIDN"T. You are a fool if you think it did. $4.25 gas price didn't occur until 2007/2008.

For your information, anytime someone testifies before Congress they are UNDER OATH.

Also, just so you know, Republicans were asking for tighter regulation of Fannie/Freddie and were BLOCKED by Democrats.

All you've offered is your OPINION, not one link to a verifiable fact. I gave you four verifiable links in a previous post (#1.28) concerning where to place the blame for the ecnomic meltdown. Apparently you don't know how to read or didn't read the links I gave you. I suggest you go back & read the links I posted for you or do your own research, if you know how, apparently, you don't.

NotSanta;

This may help you, http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/enron/senenron100702rpt.pdf

Financial Oversight of Enron:

The SEC and Private-Sector Watchdogs

For your information, anytime someone testifies before Congress they are UNDER OATH.

AF you are wrong about this. While it may be a crime to lie to congress the Republicans refused to put them under oath claiming it was an insult. As a result they did lie to congress with impunity. It was quite a scandal at the time but as usual Republicans have short memories.

Sen. Larry E. Craig (R-Idaho), an industry ally, told the executives that the No. 1 question asked at his recent town-hall meetings was “about you and your profitability. And I must tell you, it’s not terribly fun defending you.”

But at a joint hearing of two Senate committees, the executives of five major oil companies made no apologies for their profits – more than $30 billion in the third quarter of this year.

Sparks flew from the beginning, when Democrats demanded that the executives testify under oath. Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, denied the appeal, saying that forcing the witnesses to be sworn in was unfair, as they appeared voluntarily, and unnecessary.“There is nothing in the standing rules of our committee or the Senate which requires witnesses to be sworn,” he said.

Larry Craig and Ted Stevens. Don't you just love how the great names just keep resurfacing?

GOP Refuses To Swear In Oil Executives. At a sham hearing last week where the GOP pretended to care about the oil industry profiteering, Republicans refused to make oil executives take an oath of honesty before testifying. The oath is standard for witnesses at a congressional hearing - but the GOP actually suspended the oath for the executives.

Here tell me is this video a video of the Republicans refusing to swear in Oil executives or not,  Here

For your information, anytime someone testifies before Congress they are UNDER OATH.

Do you still believe that?

Fanny Freddie

The Republicans were in control of Congress from 1994 to 2006 and the White House from 2000 until now. So if Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were problems, the GOP should have at least tried to fix it. That includes John McCain, longtime member and sometimes chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee.

Banking:

Everyone knows that the GOP had a majority in the Senate. The GOP has been talking about drilling in ANWR, Social Security reform, vouchers, judges, etc. for the past 8 years, not banking reform.

Enron: As we all know, financial institutions (like all other companies) dislike having to write down their assets on the books and have long resisted doing so even when value has declined. For a long time, they could. But post-Enron, the accounting rules were changed to require more write-downs to market value. This, in turn, then triggered a self-reinforcing cycle of write-downs triggering mandatory asset sales, triggering distress prices far below fundamental value, triggering more write-downs, triggering more mandatory asset sales, and so forth.

The collapse of the giant power marketing company Enron has several experts questioning its impact on the future of electric deregulation. Enron, an energy trading company based in Texas, championed deregulation in energy markets nationwide. "We initiated the wholesale natural gas and electricity markets in the United States," the company boasted on its Web site.

"Enron was the most visible and ardent cheerleader of deregulation, and I think what's happened to them is going to raise all these questions about deregulation," said Jim Owen, spokesman for the Edison Electric Institute, in news reports about Enron's collapse in late November.

So deregulation had nothing to do with the current situation we are in? Enron was as stated "was the most visible and ardent cheerleader of deregulation"

There is your $4.25 gas.

In my view when energy prices skyrocketed for no discernible reason other than gouging and market manipulation, that is what triggered the current economic meltdown. An economy already weakened by 2 terms of Bush rule, outsourcing of jobs, the steady distruction of the middle class, two wars draining the public treasury and turning our focus away from doing the business of the country. We are not or should not be a country whose main industry is empire building.

notsanta, luckydog; 

While it may be a crime to lie to congress the Republicans refused to put them under oath claiming it was an insult. 

If they weren't automatically "under oath" then it wouldn't be a crime to lie to Congress. Sorry guys, you can't have it both ways.

Ya'll go right on believing Fannie/Freddie was the result of Republican de-regulation.  I guess you two are personal friends of Barney Franks, Chris Dodd, Schumer, Maxine Waters, etc, etc, etc, If you tell the lie often enough, you actually begin to believe it. Meanwhile, keep your kool-aid pitchers full. You guys refuse to see the truth when it bites you square in the ass.

No we can have it both ways AF. Read the link or find your own and you can easily verify but of course you don't want to do that as you would rather believe the lie. Republicans in Congress would not allow them to be sworn in and in fact they did lie, case closed.

The only truth I see in your comment is you refuse to believe the facts when they are presented to you.

If they weren't automatically "under oath" then it wouldn't be a crime to lie to Congress.

I never said it was a crime. You said when anyone testifies before congress they are automatically under oath. I just was proving you wrong.

I guess you two are personal friends of Barney Franks, Chris Dodd, Schumer, Maxine Waters

You left out a couple

All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008

Isakson, Johnny
S GA
R $49,200
$35,500
$13,700

Cantor, Eric
H VA
R $48,500
$46,500
$2,000

Crapo, Mike
S ID
R $47,250
$40,500
$6,750

Davis, Tom
H VA
R $75,499
$13,999
$61,500

Boehner, John
H OH
R $67,750
$60,500
$7,250

Bennett, Robert F
S UT
R $107,999
$71,499
$36,500

Bachus, Spencer
H AL
R $103,300
$70,500
$32,800

Blunt, Roy
H MO
R $96,950
$78,500
$18,450

luckydog;

No we can have it both ways AF. Read the link or find your own and you can easily verify but of course you don't want to do that as you would rather believe the lie. Republicans in Congress would not allow them to be sworn in and in fact they did lie, case closed. The only truth I see in your comment is you refuse to believe the facts when they are presented to you.

You stated Republicans, when, in fact, it was Ted Stevens, ONE Republican. Your statement makes it sound as if ALL Republicans were involved in some kind of conspiracy, when they, in fact, they weren't. That's CASE CLOSED, FACT. You think I refuse to believe facts when presented? How about you & notsanta REFUSING to believe the true cause of the economic meltdown. I gave ya'll 4 links PROVING the cause of the Fannie/Freddie fiasco and you twits come up with "it started with Enron".

Enron had not Jack Schitt to do with the Fannie/Freddie mess.

“These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.

That's Barney Frank (2003) in response to the Bush administration overhaul plan.

“I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.”

John McCain

 Obama and his democrat buddies never let the truth get in the way
of a good story. Never has this been more true than now in the face
of a financial crisis in this country. A financial crisis Obama and
his party created. What do Obama and Barney Frank have in common
besides being Democrats. They both were listed in the top 25
recipients of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
and they both are hypocrites. Obama is number 3 on the the list
and Barney Frank is 16. Obama, the candidate of change, was in
bed with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac yet he criticizes John McCain,
who along with George Bush, tried to fix the problem.
From a Wall Street Journal Online article:
This is stunningly naive. Recent statements by Barney Frank (D., Mass.), the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, and Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.), a powerful member of the Senate Banking Committee, make clear that Congress will never let them be privatized, broken up, slimmed down, nationalized or any of the other options hopeful reformers are putting forth today. Fannie and Freddie in their current form are just what Congress wants: an inexhaustible source of campaign contributions and funds for favored groups.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122117569863425755.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

Senate sponsors

Sen. Charles Hagel [R, NE]
Sen. Elizabeth Dole [R, NC]
Sen. John McCain [R, AZ]
Sen. John Sununu [R, NH]

House bill sponsors:

Rep. Richard Baker [R, LA-6]
Rep. Robert Aderholt [R, AL-4]
Rep. James Barrett [R, SC-3]
Rep. Roy Blunt [R, MO-7]
Rep. Geoff Davis [R, KY-4]
Rep. Tom Feeney [R, FL-24]
Michael Fitzpatrick
Rep. E. Scott Garrett [R, NJ-5]
Rep. Paul Gillmor [R, OH-5]
Rep. Jeb Hensarling [R, TX-5]
Rep. Walter Jones [R, NC-3]
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter [R, MI-11]
Rep. Patrick Mchenry [R, NC-10]
Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R, FL-18]
Rep. Paul Ryan [R, WI-1]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R, CT-4]
Rep. Frank Wolf [R, VA-10]

Notice that there were no Democrat sponsors.

So luckydog, notsanta, Do you still want to tell me I refuse to see the truth when presented with the facts? Or are you two going to admit that Republicans tried to take care of Fannie/Freddie before they collapsed? No, you can't have it both ways.

notsanta;

I never said it was a crime. You said when anyone testifies before congress they are automatically under oath. I just was proving you wrong.

You haven't proven ANYTHING with a factual, verifiable link to what you are saying. I'm supposed to take your word for it, when you refuse to see the truth about the Fannie/Freddie debacle? I've given you solid proof as to Fannie/Freddie, now you prove your point.

You stated Republicans, when, in fact, it was Ted Stevens, ONE Republican. Your statement makes it sound as if ALL Republicans were involved in some kind of conspiracy, when they, in fact, they weren't.

He was the Comity Chair numb nuts, the republicans put him there!! Here is the video (Click the word Video) Way to split hairs!

The story you link to is from 2003. The Republicans RAN THE HOUSE. You blame the manority?

BTW John McCain received $21,550 from Fanny and Freddie.

The Enron fun filled ride led to deregulation.

And you are right I don't see any democrat names on your little list, Just a lot of out of work republicans.

Nice link, Because according to the link you provided, the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 was introduced on Jan 26, 2005. Where it died in a Republican-controlled committee of the Republican-controlled Senate.

On 31 July 2007, after the Democrats obtained control of the Congress in the November 2006 election, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi introduced HR 3221, a "bill to provide needed housing reform and for other purposes." Among other things, the bill granted the newly formed Federal Housing Finance Agency "supervisory and regulatory authority over Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the federal home loan banks.

Have another drink Vet

Not Santa; (Does that mean you're an elf?);

He was the Comity Chair numb nuts, the republicans put him there!!

I see you've become so flustered that you've started dishing out personal insults. I'd rather have numb nuts than "no nuts". Do you have the education level of a fifth grader? It's spelled committee, not comity, and minority is not spelled manority. McCain's paltry $21,550.00 (over a period of 10 years) is a mere drop in the bucket when comparing it to Chris Dodd's $133,900.00, John Kerry's $111,000.00 and Obama's $105,849.00. Obama collected his money from Fannie/Freddie in just three years.

the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 was introduced on Jan 26, 2005. Where it died in a Republican-controlled committee of the Republican-controlled Senate.

Nice try, but you ignore the bill McCain co-sponsored to eliminate the graft at Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. It’s on record as S. 190 [109th Congress]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005. Chris Dodd (D) killed it. The second-highest recipient of political funds siphoned off of this scandal was Barack Obama. You cannot blame this solely on Republicans when Democrats are flush with cash from it. Greed and mismanagement crosses partisan lines

Pick up that pitcher of kool-aid & pour yourself another tall, cool glassful.

I suggest you ACTUALLY READ the four links I posted to you in my #1.28 post because you are DEAD WRONG in your assertions. 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo125.html

http://federalreserve.gov/newsevents/testimony/braunstein20080213a.htm

http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_21385.shtml I suggest you read this article in its entirety, you will see exactly what I'm saying about Carter & Clinton, IS TRUE.

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/409192893/m/9530027002001

Sorry I was sleepy. forgot to spell check. So you did watch the video and I have been vindicated. You were wrong in saying that anything you go before congress you are under oath.

So because McCain only took some money, not much, he is free and clear? In for a dime in for a dollar. Ever hear that one, did he give the money back? He is a Billionaire ya know.

is a mere drop in the bucket

Are you saying HR 3221 does not exist?

NotSanta;

So you did watch the video and I have been vindicated.

No, I didn't and NO you haven't.

 He is a Billionaire ya know.

As usual, you're WRONG again. His WIFE is a multi-millionaire, not a billionaire, McCain is neither. FYI, McCain signed a pre-nuptial agreement with Cindy. If you don't believe me, research it.

Are you saying HR 3221 does not exist?

No, You are just sorely confused as to what I was referring to & what you were referring to.

What I was referring to is S. 190 [109th Congress]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005.

You are referring to the ‘‘Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008’’. (HR 3221).

Ok so you don't want to face facts.

NotSanta;

Ok so you don't want to face facts.

No, I am satisfied with the facts I know that I posted to you. You still believe that the Republicans are solely responsible for the Fannie/Freddie meltdown when I posted 4 separate links to you PROVING you wrong. You have yet to accept that fact and started spouting some nonsense about HR3221 when that is a totally different topic from what we were originally talking about.

You keep believing whatever it is you want because you're apparently incapable of separating fact from fiction.

You are picking and choosing.

1. Enon was the prime cheerleader for deregulation

2. Deregulation was done one the republicans watch

3. John McCain took money from Fannie and Freddie, but it was too small amount according to you. He is not a billionaire, (My mistake Multi Millionaire), but has 11 houses and a private jet. And don't try that crap its Cindys stuff. Do you let your wife drive your car?

4. You said the anytime someone testifies before congress they are under oath, I said you were wrong, but you said the Ted Stevens example does not count.

5. You say that regulation could not be done due to democrats in a republican run congress and white house, yet I give you an example of how democrats did jut this, and you say it does not exist. H.R.3221 Title: A bill to provide needed housing reform.

NotSanta;

As I said before, You keep repeating the same misinformed bull@!$%# lies without having a clue as to the actual truth.

So, I REPEAT, You keep believing whatever it is you want because you're apparently incapable of separating fact from fiction. JUst like you're accusing me of saying HR3221 doesn't exist, I NEVER SAID THAT, You are the one SAYING I said it. Again, just because you state it, DOESN"T MAKE IT TRUE.

Go find a fencepost to argue with, you'll make more headway than you have with me.

I suggest you go back & reread every post we've exchanged because YOU HAVE SOME VERY SERIOUS READING COMPREHENSION ISSUES.

But it was OK for the waste of $$$$$ going after a BJ (and the lie about it afterward.....a human reaction!) or the witchhunt by the GreedyOldPerverts going after the clintons for whatever they could even if it amounted to NOTHING. IF not NOW, when???????

Kim- I agree completely.  The Clinton witch hunt was ridiculous.  Do we really want to follow the example, and start the same old crap of dividing the country??  I would love to see Bush and he cohorts in jail.  I am just ambivalent about further polarizing our country. 

did anyone cry that they foudn the killer of the americans most wanted hosts son 20 years later? think it was a waste of money?funny how so many think breakign the highest laws in the land should ahve a statue of limitations equal to the time the guy is commiting the crime. the gop didnt get hurt for investigating clinton.. infact tehy gained seats... on the other hand most say ford lost reelection becasue he pardoned nixion. we are a nation of laws not of men. We should find out the truth. otherwise one side will always blame and the other side will always deny.. you claim it will be divisive.. i counter it will heal the divide.

Alicia and you too will get relief in your next life....because it won't happen here if we don't clean up the mess before trying to fix it....there is no moving on until we face our responsibility to hold criminals accountable....we could add thousands of jobs in law enforcement and the FBI to carry this out. Now that would be a worthwhile stimulous.

The truth might hurt, but it is the best policy.  My personal rule is to tell the truth always.  I talk so much and never listen to what I say.  Somebody would catch my lies immediately.  Seriously, we are divided because the truth is held from us, and there is nothing in the media now how Nancy Pelosi just made the house of representatives much more secretive and less partisan.  The republicans have been locked out of the amendment making process, legislation authoring, behind closed door proceedings, and all that stuff.

The Clinton witch hunt was a ridiculous waste of money, no doubt about it.  What the Republicans did to Clinton was nothing less than a lynch mob.  I just don't believe in tit for tat althoughif Bush and companies crimes are as bad as they appear to be they should be prosecuted.  I just don't want it to appear that anyone is trying to get even for what Clinton was put through.  We need to get past this partisan rancor to end so we can get our country back on track.

You don't get partisan rancor to end by ignoring high crimes and felony's. Many of Bush's victims are crying out for justice and the new president and congress owe the American people nothing less.

Even if they did go through with it, it would just end up being a big drain on the tax dollars (think Star/Clinton) with no consequences. If America was serious about going after this buffoon and his henchmen they would have not elected him for a second term, nor failed to impeach him.

Appearently felatio is more of a crime then manipulating our democratic system for personal wealth and vendetta.

As soon as Bush is out he is FREE, Period.  They would never go after a non-sitting president.

I'm sure he will be saying the in The Hague.

Funny, Brian keeps bringing up Obama's lone conspiracy, you know, the one that questions his statehood.

But even in that, the question can be raised, who died? Wanting so badly to see Obama ousted as president. About as much as we want the current one tried for the many crimes he has committed.

There was a motion to impeach Bush a couple years ago, with a shopping list of offenses.

Now before Obama takes office there is a facebook group and other sites that want to see Obama impeached.

Sad really, but I see an Obama impeachment more likely coming from this fascist republic, than I do a legit one due to democracy.

What a nation. For as little as it serves, it is better off divided.

If you got involved like I did than the country would be a better place in my opinion.

This country is being bankrupted because on unions.  A person gets a government job, 51% of the country, and works for thirty seven years as a bureaucrat.  retires and makes the same amount of money he made while employed.  Nineteen (19 ) plus + ( 37 ) = 56 years of age if they started at age nineteen.  OK.  Now we have to pay for a government job twice, once for the retiree, and once for the person doing a job that could and should be sub-contracted.

Obama's statehood is like being in the hood, there is no description other than the hood.  I will never believe that we have a legitimate president with Barack Obama, Period. I have the right to feel this way, and can change my mind if I chose to do so.

I'm facinated with the lack of curosity the left liberal democRAT people have, and once again, Period.

Sarah Palin doesn't read...that's a pretty high lack of curiosity.

If you got involved like I did than the country would be a better place in my opinion.

Involved in unsupported conspiracy theories, frivolous lawsuits, lies, and threats against the nation and its President?

The nation would collapse if everyone behaved like you, Brian. STFU.

And Independents, don't forget about us, We went for Obama head over heals!!!!

Also, GW will be held accountable in the next in the next life for any crimes he may have or may not have committed.

Could said that about Ted Bundy too.  Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy...

Yup, Imagine LBJ and JFK being prosecuted for Vietnam attrocities! Then, we would have to prosecute Clinton for bombing Kosovo and Iraq, as well as Somalia. I do not think this is a good idea.

No president is above the law. However, presidents are granted executive authority in our constitution because they have to be able to make quick decisions to protect our country. Remember how it felt on 9/11. Due diligence is necessary to fight a cowardice enemy that will target innocent women and children.

Bush had a team of lawyers researching and approving every decision. There was no torture. When some soldiers were idiots at Gitmo, they were dealt with by the administration. 

I will say this for what it is. This is simply a political ploy to keep this in the spotlight for political gain. Let's stick it to those darn republicans.

I have a better idea. Let's move forward and focus our energy on solving our economic problems.

I agree. The problem is that those on the far right will just see this as an escalation as "politics as usual" and it will become standard to try the outgoing administration for crimes if they've done anything controversial. Personally, I think Bush & Co. are guilty as hell on war crimes for ordering torture, plus they've shredded the constitution on gitmo, wiretaps, renditions. But I'd like to see international legal system take this up.

"Clinton for bombing Kosovo and Iraq, as well as Somalia.  "

Shouldn't be a problem there, the UN sanctioned those actions.

"No president is above the law. However, presidents are granted executive authority in our constitution because they have to be able to make quick decisions to protect our country"

Still does not condone losing your head or taking an emotional ride past the letter of the law.

Studiusbagus, Somalia was sanctioned by the UN.  Wasn't the big problem and people resigned was that the UN was not informed?

Clinton exagerated to encourage action in Kosovo. He said 100,000 had been killed by Milosevic, yet only 3,000 bodies were found. Our soldiers were dragged through the streets in Somalia. Is this what you all want?

Do you want the mistrust of teh world.. do you want respect? do you want a moral standing?we can not be a nation for democray and law if we pick and choose to ignore our own.

JoulesBeef:  I have read many posts by you on other threads.  Do you live in the US? I wondered if perhaps you live in another country?  Just curious.

"The incoming Obama administration should launch a criminal investigation of Bush administration officials to see whether they broke the law in the name of national security"

Wow, is that going to open up a can of worms for future Presidents!

Not doing it Elvis, opens the door for the same and even greater abuses of power. An impartial investigation is not only necessary but I would think that Bush fans would want to see him exonerated if he is as innocent as they claim. Both Clinton's were fully exonerated concerning Whitewater despite an investigation that cost more than was spent on investigating 9-11.  History will judge Obama harshly if he suppresses such an investigation.

Studiusbagus,

"Clinton for bombing Kosovo and Iraq, as well as Somalia.  "

Shouldn't be a problem there, the UN sanctioned those actions.

Should we let the UN have a veto over our actions?

Voice,

Once again you amaze me with your petty excuses for Bush's actions.  You try to justify misdeeds by twisting the truth about other presidents.  Your agenda is obvious and pretty lame.

I am sure I will be corrected if I mis-speak but I really believed, until the Bush Administration that our system of government was a 3-part system. 

The Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch.  None of which was under orders from another.  Whatever is to occur with the Bush Administration investigation, prosecution or lack thereof was the under the perview of both the Judicial branch and the Legislative branch with it's judiciary committee.  That's two out of three.  Why does it depend on Obama whose hands are quite full with 2 wars, a very serious worldwide economic disaster and the rebuilding of the state department as well as our relationships with our allies and the rest of the world. 

No one can do all of those jobs and do anything adequately even with all of the help he has.  It all requires unwavering attention.  Look what has happened when Bush tried to control all those reins of power. 

Let Obama do what he has to do and pray for the best outcome.  Let the Judicial branch do what it has to do and pray for success in returning justice to us.  Let the Legislative branch do what it must and pray for unity.  And we watch while we tend to our own local problems with similar problems.  We can always vote again and say "you're fired". 

We all know 'trickle down' anything does not work.  Everything rises, especially heat, so maybe we could make some good rise from where we are standing.  That is what evolution is all about, all things rise.  Good luck and keep on truckin'.

The Obama people want to see the pointed finger so that you don't see the Moon the fingers pointed towards.

It is a good tactic to get people to not see your agenda.  The Obunkensteinnstacker tactic.

Will we report Obama's record as well as Bushes record?  I look forward to it, Thanks.

Agreed.  Its been so bad, why try and quantify the scope of failure?  Let's just move on... 

9-11 was long ago too.. screw bin ladin.. let all move on.

JoulesBeef,

9-11 was long ago too.. screw bin ladin.. let all move on.

No, 9-11 was not long ago.  We have to hunt Bin Ladin.  I don't care if it takes another 20 years.  Bin Ladin has to be killed.

Bin Ladin has to be killed.

I agree and this could have been done if the people weren't led to believe that he had a relationship with Saddam and our government could waste more money in Iraq.

Can a former president claim executive privilege?

Comparing the two is just ridiculous. The president did NOT break any laws. He pi$$ed some people off, but he didn't break the law. Charles Manson should be compared to Osama, not George W.

You libs and dems have had it out for Bush since 2000. He won. That's it. For eight years you have whined about anything and everything. Now, he is out. Obama is in. Let it move on.

It's kinda hard to move on when GWB has ruined this country so much.  He should be held accountable.  We shouldn't let criminals get away.

America's Voice, you ain't MINE! Bush is a war criminal and should be held accountable. Don't the GreedyOldPerverts believe in accountability. Rove AND Bush have said you do. I guess if it your ass in a sling it becomes a "nevermind" huh?

at #5.1 

The president did NOT break any laws.

see, the problem is, it's pretty clear that he did break laws. Like ordering the torture of prisoners. And the illegal wire taps, just to name two very clear cases of the law that he's admitted to breaking himself. But then again, what is the definition torture these days, right? (reminds me of Clinton - depends on what the definition of is is)

"You libs and dems have had it out for Bush since 2000. He won. That's it. For eight years you have whined about anything and everything."

Not true in my case, I don't care if he was a Democrat or Republican or any other party, the law is the law.

"America's Voice, you ain't MINE! "  Thank you kim.  I have been thinking the same thing.  Okay, disregard my previous posts.  THROW THE BUM IN PRISON!

TRM...Your welcome. If WE have to abide by the law, WE must demand the same from OUR leadership. NO matter the party.

We have a Constitution... whether you are a man, woman, Liberal, Democrat, or a Republican you are still to withhold to the very document that has brought us to a Country.

No one is above the LAW...NO One.

Unfortunatly the right seems to want their guy imune from prosecution. What Bush has done is far worse that Bill lying to congress about a little blow job WHICH wasn't anyone's business but his, Hillary's and Monica's!

He signed executive orders. They are legal. He ordered our military into a country to take down a tyrannic leader. Good or bad, agree or disagree, it is not illegal. Congress voted to authorize war. Do they go to jail? No, because no crime was committed.

What torture? What ruling? Please provide a source of your accusations. Here is an article about a case that was dismissed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1129837820080111

No one condones torture. However, until a court defines waterboarding as torture, it is not. Our own soldiers are waterboarded as part of special ops training. Every Navy Seal is waterboarded. I went through it and it stinks! It is uncomfortable, and you don't want to go through it again.

Again, how quote me the law that has been broken, and the example of how the law was broken. If all you have is listening in on conversations, you will have to put the most of the NSA in prison, as well as our intelligence committee.

Obama is smarter than to mess with this.

He made it our business when he did it in OUR White House and then lied under oath!  Those ar the only two reasons I was so pissed off about it. 

I would encourage an investigation of the Bush administration.  If it comes out that they did break laws, then they should be prosecuted.  If it turns out that no laws were broken, will the left finally shut their collective whiny pie hole?  I think not. 

he broke several laws and was told as such by the supreme court.when it came to the wiretapping the courts told him he was breakign the law.. thats why all the retroactive crap. the gao also admonished the president for breaking the law on propaganda.. the bush admin has been founded guilty of breaking the law several times in a real court.. they just havent been punished for anything.

No one condones torture. However, until a court defines waterboarding as torture, it is not.

I beg to differ. By our laws water boarding is considered torture.

Clinton's rules of engagement in Somalia were lawful and cost us that theater.  Another example of UN forces that were unsuccessful, and so America went in by ourselves.  However, Clinton ruthlessly bombed IRAQ, much worse than Bush.

Clinton's Dayton Accord was a good measure for a region that had centuries of disdain.  Remember Alexander the Great was a Macedonian.  However it took Colin Powell to use the word Genocide with is the harshest words the international community can use.  Those words were directed by President Bush.  Some people easily forget history, some do not know history, and some just don't care about history.

Bush's approval rating of 73% lets me know that the liberal anger is subsiding.  America is the last super power and we command respect, Period!

 Some people easily forget history, some do not know history, and some just don't care about history.

I haven't forgotten the fact that bush "used" Colin Powell to mislead the WORLD into to thinking that Iraq had WMD's.

Can the shovel fed conservatives think for themselves and not believe all the misinformation that is doled out to the public as truth just because you have an (R) next to your name and if you repeat it enough times the gullible will believe and the intelligent will be saying "I don't believe they believe the cr@p coming out of ditch diggers mouth".

Absolutely not.  Colin Powell is the finest example of an American Patriot.

Now are you inferring that Powell's statements to the UN about the pictures of the so called " Mobile WMD Labs " lead America to attack Iraq, or is there some other scenario?

Bloggosphereians, no not the one going to be an impeached politician attached to Obama, ( Blago ) but people that have the time to write is this forum are liberal. 

Hatred is unbecoming and you are unbecoming.  I will debate facts, not your idiotic statements.  By the way, if you really care, it would be nice if you let people make up their own minds instead of being an Internet attacker!

Comparing the two is just ridiculous. The president did NOT break any laws. He pi$$ed some people off, but he didn't break the law. Charles Manson should be compared to Osama, not George W.

You libs and dems have had it out for Bush since 2000. He won. That's it. For eight years you have whined about anything and everything. Now, he is out. Obama is in. Let it move on.

The United Nations Charter has a provision which was agreed to by the United States.

Its says no nation can use armed force without the permission of the U.N. Security Council.  So the Charter was violated.

The Geneva Conventions are the law of the United States, therefore, any violations that Bush has committed are considered war crimes and are punishable as federal offenses. So he could be charged with "supreme crime against humanity, an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation."

The Truth about Iraq ,as told by CIA agents and UN Inspectors

Congress was given a different account of the intelligence from Bush/Cheney et al...therefore they backed the president. When the whistleblowers started coming out the Republicans became all about war and party and put their country and the lives of our soldiers dead last.
The democrats wanted to listen to the EXPERTS  and get our miltary  out of Iraq and hold this joke of a president and his cohorts accountable. Republicans continued with the Bullsh*t and pushed for more war and changed the primary reason for invasion from WMDs to liberating iraq in a pathetic attempt to justify killing innocent people.

That is the critical issue.  When Saddam Huessain broke UN resolution 14.41 that was at least the fourteenth UN resolution that was not complied with.  The Geneva convention has limited dialogue.  America is obligated, but has the right to challenge the convention.  That is exactly what our President Bush did. 

Remember how pissed the liberals were when Bolton was appointed to the UN.  Bush was smart enough to know that Kofi Annan's son was raping the food for oil mess, but President Clinton bombed the daylights out of Iraq before President Bush, who was much nicer.

"Bush's approval rating of 73%"

Brian-I think that is bush's approval rating in Africa.  Try to keep up.  LOL 

Those are the recent poll numbers!  Ya ya, I know polls don't mean jack S*!t.

Well Brian if you love him so much why don't ya marry him?

Good news, you could end up on his jury that will be seated for his criminal trial.

The last election cycle outlawed homosexual marriage.  You really are truly uninformed.  Scary, and I know you probably voted like a lemming.

lolz at both of you!

Gay Marriage is legal in MA and CT and will soon be legal in the Military.

I know with Bush being a Combat War Veteran, and I think he got a splinter in his as from piloting a chair so he should have a purple heart.

So you can marry him. I wonder if he still has his uniform with all his combat metals?

I love Chaneys and Bushs thoughts on war, Lets @!$%# them up. Are you going? No I will stay here and protect Texas, how bout you Chaney? I need a 3rd deferral.

America's Voice, you ain't MINE!

Nor mine! I find the name arrogant and offensive.

Please also read THe prosecution Of George Bush for Murder and see if you still think Bush should be gioven a free ride> I don't! He ISN'T above the law no matter what YOU say!

lol the long form of the birth cert? LOLOL no really just invetigate what you have said.. aint no way he would be president elect if that bs had any reality/ FOrd lost the election after pardoning nixion.. america doesnt like to see criminals go scott free. Crap we clear up investigations even iif everyone invovled is DEAD

Some may consider Obama as having already broken the law as he has yet to furnish the "long form" of his birth certificate.

The Supreme Court threw this out like the ignorant drivel that it is!

The Philip Berg case was the most high profile and the case was denied Monday 1/12/09 by the USSC.  There is another Berg legal proceeding to occur Friday 1/16/09. 

One new case was just filed last week, and there are around fifteen cases against Obama in courts around the country right now.

This will take years to clean up.  Obama has three law firms defending him.  Yes that is three whole law firms.  A big boom for the lawyer business.  In the end the American taxpayers will get the jam all over. 

Obama could stop the insanity if he would release the vaulted copy of his birth certificate.  A $12.50 expense.  Berg is a huge democrat party man and he make a very believable argument at obamacrimes.com, but the the courts say that he does not have "Standing".  What ever that means, but I do not think this is going to go away soon, and Bush get off the hook because of Obama's situation.  Politics!

Sad our AF_veterans believe the rhetoric of the right but not surprised this veterans does.

Kim said:   TRM...Your welcome. If WE have to abide by the law, WE must demand the same from OUR leadership. NO matter the party.

I say: " ok then , every freekin person who has sat in the congress the last year needs to go to jail right along with Bush and Cheney, Including the new President Elect and mush of his staff. They were all there enabling the situation, Plus they are every one of them criminal remember???? The have ALL played a part of stealing our money and causing the collapse of our economy, every single one of them need to be prosecuted and put in jail"

How's that for bi-partisanship?

Kim;

I don't! He ISN'T above the law no matter what YOU say!

Excuse me? Show me EXACTLY where I said I thought Bush was above the law.

Look at Obama over his entire career and you'll understand why I say this. I don't want to hear any comment about it unless you have actually READ THE BOOK!

I REPEAT !!! See statement above. Go read the book, until so, keep your comments to yourself!!! You can't speak knowledgably about it until you've done so.

Dear AF-Vetran

 Please show me irrevocalbe proof that the Boof is 100%factual and then I might find reason to believe in it.

Rayne....perfectly FINE with ME!!!!! Theya re generally a bunch of criminals....white color but criminals nonetheless!WHO would YOU suggest we replace them with?????

AF...please read the prosecution of George Bush for murder aswell. You might find yourself enlightened!

he has yet to furnish the "long form" of his birth certificate.

And he doesn't have to. The Supreme Court told Phil Berg to go take a hike. Why don't you go keep Phil company?

Obama could stop the insanity if he would release the vaulted copy of his birth certificate.  A $12.50 expense. 

The birth certificate has been verified and validated. The vault copy is not released by the State of Hawaii to ANYONE.  That's why they make you a certificate, which is a perfectly legal and valid document.

Might want to get some safety belts for your rocker, because you keep falling off it.

rodgerbeam;

Please show me irrevocalbe proof that the Boof is 100%factual and then I might find reason to believe in it.

What is a boof? You have a mouthfull of peanut butter?

Read the book "The Case against Barack Obama" by David Freddoso. It's all been researched and is full of verifiable facts. 

David Freddoso

He verified his facts by referring to his other writings! Referring one lie to another lie does not make it true.

Nice try.

AF you are on the wrong side of this argument. And you may ask why. It is because this thread is about Bush and his discressions, NOT OBAMA.

Rather simple really, in a few months you can trash Obama all you want. By looking at your seeds you are well under way to doing just that. And don't patronize. You want Obama to fail.

But like I said this isn't about Obama, this is about Bush.

Dispute the actions that Bush has made or admit to them, your call.

davetopper;

Rather simple really, in a few months you can trash Obama all you want. By looking at your seeds you are well under way to doing just that. And don't patronize. You want Obama to fail.

Please, show me ONE statement where I've said that I want Obama to fail. You can't, because I haven't. Don't patronize me! It would do you well to question Obama on his statements rather than take everything he says as "the gospel truth". Why do you follow Obama "lemming-like" without ever questioning his statements? Can you not think for yourself? I don't believe everything Bush & Co says, just as I don't believe everything Obama says. After all, they are both politicians, ALL politicians are known to lie, stretch/misrepresent the truth. Agree?

Agree?

No.

I do not judge people by their lies and deceit I judge them by their actions. Now look at the top of this page, that is a picture of Bush. This whole thread is about Bush.

Oh sure there are many things about Obama that rub me the wrong way, like his Bilderberg cabinet, his and this nations continued loyalty to Israel. And of course Rick Warren. That choice for a pastor to do the invocation is an insult to many people on many levels.

Yea there are many things. But in the long run, in a side by side comparison Barack Hussein Obama is a better man than George W. Bush.

I can be derisive of Bush because there is reason. But I am skeptical of partisanship of a person that doesn't share in that derision in any single way.

On merit you can only compare the apples and the oranges. That seems to be all you want to do.

The bottom line is where we sit now, emotionally, economically and nationally, is that we are wrecked by the current president.

Are all politicians lairs? Maybe so. But as much as you do not want Obama to get away with being a cheat with the old birth certificate bull, I do not want to see Bush get away with an unjust war that got good people ( along with a small portion of bad ) killed.

There is a bit of an imbalance there when you consider the crimes.

davetopper;

I do not judge people by their lies and deceit I judge them by their actions.

Then I suggest you start taking a much closer look at the actions of Obama. What I mean by that is, start by reading the book, "The Case Against Barack Obama", by David Freddoso. That's just for starters. I think you'll be amazed at the history of Obamas actions. I'm not trying to say that Obama is the "demon" that some far right wingers make him out to be, however, he's certainly not the "angel" who can do no wrong that some far left wingers make him out to be. And I'm certainly not comparing apples to oranges as you say I am.

Yea there are many things. But in the long run, in a side by side comparison Barack Hussein Obama is a better man than George W. Bush.

That's YOUR opinion. I believe the jury is still out on that. Let's take ONE topic and compare Obama to Bush. That topic is partial birth abortion. http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortions.htm

You feel that Obama is a better man than Bush when Obama would allow a baby that survives an abortion to be tossed into a soiled linen closet to die, rather than making all efforts to save that baby's life? How on earth can Obama look into the faces of his daughters when he can allow that to happen?

I can be derisive of Bush because there is reason.

I also can be derisive of Obama "because there is reason".

The bottom line is where we sit now, emotionally, economically and nationally, is that we are wrecked by the current president.

I wouldn't give Bush ALL the credit for where we stand right now. You seem to forget that there is a Congress that also participated in getting us to where we are at this moment.

But as much as you do not want Obama to get away with being a cheat with the old birth certificate bull, I do not want to see Bush get away with an unjust war that got good people ( along with a small portion of bad ) killed.

Birth certificate bull? My only question to you about Obamas birth certificate (or lack thereof) is this. Why, on such a simple matter, is Obama unwilling to produce his birth certificate? You're going to tell me, of course, that he's already produced one. But, the fact of the matter is, he hasn't. What he has shown is a "Certification of Live Birth", not a true "birth certificate". It shows his father's race as "African"? African is not a race, it's a continent. His race should have been shown as "Negro". Check this out, http://israelinsider.ning.com/channels/page/show?id=2018399%3APage%3A435

I fail to understand how you see Iraq as an unjust war. Did Congress not vote to go to war in Iraq? Wasn't the U.N involved? Enlighten me as to why you view it as an "unjust" war.

There is a bit of an imbalance there when you consider the crimes.

Show me absolute "proof" of any crime Bush has committed. Not just your opinion, but, factual, verifiable proof. 

I fail to understand how you do see Iraq as a just war.

You want to bend over backwards and relegate all blame elsewhere.

Show me absolute "proof" of any crime Bush has committed. Not just your opinion, but, factual, verifiable proof.

I have at least six years and a mountain to paruse. No AF not going to do that heavy lifting for you.

If you want to nominate George Bush as a saint, by all means you do that.

As for the heavy lifting, and the burden of proof and enlightenment that is on your shoulders.

With all that said.

Thank you for the time.

Audios

Kim; 

The birth certificate has been verified and validated. The vault copy is not released by the State of Hawaii to ANYONE.  That's why they make you a certificate, which is a perfectly legal and valid document. Might want to get some safety belts for your rocker, because you keep falling off it. 

Verified & validated? Yeah, by the left wing media NOT by an independent authority. Have you even examined the online certificate Obama shows? You have no problem then with his fathers race being shown as "African?". For your information, African is not a race, it's a continent. I believe a TRUE birth certifcate would show his fathers race as Negro. I don't own a rocker, I suggest you tighten the seat belt on your highchair, you keep slipping out.

Here is some excellent reading for your narrow little mind. http://israelinsider.ning.com/channels/page/show?id=2018399%3APage%3A435

Be sure you read the ENTIRE article.

ahh so the gov can only do one thing the entire time it is in sesssion.. better not telll the terrorists.. they might atatck us while our noses in the books. geez man seriously this is weeek

Rixar13;

To the AF Veteran^^^^, I don't read fiction.

Oh really? What are you referring to as fiction? You don't believe in authors researching & coming up with verifiable facts? I don't read fiction either, except when I read your posts.

Please check you fact and you will find that guantonimobay was a navy base well before Bush ever got into office in fact scince the Us Spanish or "Spanish War"being out side of the United States and the Island actually being foriegn soil is more precisely why they got away with saying US constitution does not apply thier

Guantanamo Bay is an American Possession.  It has been since 1903.

Dozens of current and former CIA officials were just recently caught red handed in public restrooms describing what happens at Guantanamo Bay using marker pens with red ink on the walls surrounding the toilets in the upper north eastern portion of the United States, but can not be confirmed because the CIA does not routinely tell the mass media what they are doing.  Stay tuned to my station because more will follow.

The reason we need a president is for them to hear the presidents daily brief.  This is where the stuff you really do not want to know is told to the American leader, and for him to direct the subordinates.

Sorry.  Bush had the deepest administration ever.  These people knew how to get things done.  That is why Obunkerwreninskiowell retreaded the Clinton Administration.  His friends are anarchists.  they do not know how to build, only destroy.

Bush is a great leader, and history will reflect that for the rest of time, thank god!

Brian-oh never mind.  Enjoy your world!

I will, thank you, this is complements of President Bush.  Could be plenty worse.  You have no mind?  Sorry!

lol bush supporter? It doesnt surprise me your offended.. when the dem congresses got polled for low numbers the most common repsonce as too why was that they had not done enough to investigate bush.. may be a waste oif time for you.. but a good bit of us want closure.Bush has increased terrorism world wide.(we actually broke records on terrorism last year.. so much for his war on terrorism.. so efffective. he's ruined our rep with our own allies. we have had doznes of terrorsit atatcks sicne 9-11 besides for the anthrax and snipers,, there have been abortion bombings and other things.. american intererst aboard have been attacked many times and he killed 4000 of our citiznes sending them to iran and disfiigured tens of thousandsso excuse me while i dont stand up and cheer for him keeping us "Safe"

Hey Joules;

we have had doznes of terrorsit atatcks sicne 9-11 besides for the anthrax and snipers,, there have been abortion bombings and other things.. american intererst aboard have been attacked many times and he killed 4000 of our citiznes sending them to iran

Oh really? Name ONE terrorist attack we've had on US soil since 9/11, or ONE abortion clinic bombing, or anthrax incident. When did we invade IRAN & see 4,000 of our citizens die? Do you live in the USA or some foriegn country? Please, avail your self of the spell check function. Your posts are extremely difficult to read, even for those who aren't dyslexic.

JoulesBeef & Cbagent81,

re;#15.1 & #15.3

I wasn't going to respond to these two radical opinions as they have no supporting evidence whatsoever. Just a lot of hatred.

President-elect Barack Obama has been more cautious on the issue and has not endorsed such a recommendation.

That says it all. Obama will continue with Bush's anti-terrorism policies and probably try to fine-tune them. And the Democrats in general will continue spending gross amounts of money to keep you two guys happy.

Hey, Joules. You really need  typing lessons! And, Cbagent81, your causal conclusions are seriously bereft of any sensibility.

Cbagent81,

re; #15.5

WHAT PROOF DO I NEED?

You sure need more than contrived accusations. Bush may be powerful, but he didn't create a hurricane. The emergency response did, however, pluck some 30,000 people from rooftops immediatley after Katrina moved through New Orleans.

"Puts people on trial without their rights"? What people? You consider terrorists trying to kill Americans as people? They're terrorists. Not party to the Geneva Convention!

"Botched war"? You mean in Iraq? Where an infant democracy is beginning its new life.

"Worst stock market crash since the 30's"? You trying to lay that at the feet of Bush? How about the idiots in a corrupt Congress that fanned the flames of greed within Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac?

 Bill you have no Idea what hatred is.......

I try to stay away from hatred, except where terrorism is concerned!

Could the accountability for Bush come from congress?  Could the accountability for Bush come from the world court?  Could the accountability for Bush come from the UN?  None of these organizations have stated that Bush is a war criminal, and after six years we would of hear something.  What about innocent until proven guilty?  Smart people that know these kinds of things realize the Bush is a great leader.

I know that there was more than one city hit by Katrina.  Name another city in bad shape.  The environmental groups have stated that it MIGHT NOT be a bad idea to let the bayou reclaim New Orleans.  The city called the big easy.

The war is going very well thank you.  SIX TIMES LESS SOLDIERS WERE KILLED PER YEAR THAN WITH ALCOHOL.  An American is killed every twenty (20) minutes in an Auto accident related to alcohol.  Scream for that one.  I know people that feel safer in Iraq than in their home town in America.  That because of decades of liberal crime prevention techniques used by the democrats to keep them in power.

The stock market crash was the result of Fm and FM having leveraged so many bad loans because of President Carter, and Clinton, Senators Dodd and Kerry, and Representatives Franks and Walters.  Bush and McCain are both on record warning of the catastrophic mess this would create and the democrats went to the television cameras and lied to our faces, again.

The American Dream Downpayment Initative was minimally funded and people HAD TO PROVE ABILITY TO REPAY.

Funding Status

In FY 2007, Congress appropriated $24,750,000 for ADDI. Previously, Congress appropriated $74,513,000 in FY2003 and $86,984 in FY2004, $49,600,000 in FY2005 and $24,750,000 in FY2006. HUD has issued for FY 2007 to assist participating jurisdictions in preparing their consolidated plans.  This is from HUD homepage.  Less than 100 Million dollars per year for all fifty states combined.  I would have thought you would have complained that this was not enough money as oppossed to saying it broke the bank.  By the way Bushes legislation almost always has an end to it, not like the demorats that get something going for ever no matter how bad or innefficient it is.

They all but repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, and the Bank holding Act.  They did not then.

I do not make judgements on peoples standing.  But the people around the world laugh at our stupid attempts to try to reform the murderer because he was raped as a child b(!!$%!t.  Saddam dead in under thirty days after conviction is what is needed in America.  Having a person on death row for twenty three years in cruel and unusual punishment.  We lost our respect around the world because of liberal policies towards crime in general.

The first set of criminal terrorist that bombed the WTC in 1993 said at their trials that they would destroy America with our own laws.  There are many people that want Americans, dead, destroyed, or I hope you understand how much they hate us and how well President Bush navigated the way for us.

how well President Bush navigated the way for us.

By trampling on hundreds of years of principles? I would rather keep the principles that made us great.

Bush is an idiot, and will most likely will be charged with many crimes.

I wish you well when it is revealed that Obama did pull a fast one on the constitution.

Does the Constitution still exist? Bush has completely destroyed it. A Republican judge threw out all charges against the 20th sept 11th 2001 hijacker because Bush ignored the Constitution.

Ready Slow Clap for Brian and Bush

Clap

Clap

Clap

Cbagent,

re; #15.13

It is quite obvious that you are a seriously disturbed individual!

Frustration usually results in the name calling you've deferred to. You've run out of excuses for your lame positions, and, without verifiable support for your accusations, you resort to derogatory name calling. Brings into question who's really disturbed? You?

re; #15.8

So if you mean to say the babtists and catholics are terrorists and should be tried without rights, I would say not so fast!

Another example of you trying to change direction when you get into a corner and going off subject to assuage your morbidity.

Anyone who doesn't share those common values, doesn't respect human life.

Sez' you? You decide 'common values'? Then suggest those who don't share your 'common values' are disrespectful of human life? Your lame rhetoric and phantasmal 'values' are good examples of why you'll never be making policy, thank goodness.

Brian-657672 has it right in #15.9. You'd do well to wake up and read him again

Cbagent,

re; #15.15

your another immoral republican lunatic. 

I'll say it again, for the record. - "Frustration usually results in the name calling you've deferred to. You've run out of excuses for your lame positions, and, without verifiable support for your accusations, you resort to derogatory name calling. Brings into question who's really disturbed?"

They all but repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, and the Bank holding Act. 

They did not then.

Well actually they did repeal them, and that gave us the bush stock market crash!  Do your research, otherwise, I will have no choice but to resort to petty and fun name calling!

Story changer alert!  Sound the silent alarm.  Obviously oblivious to fact, dialogue, and communication. 

Repealing the Glass-Steagall Act, and the Bank holding Act. caused the the stock martet crash.  How rich is that.  Dumb d dum dum dum. 

These sites say it all.  Democraps are bad. Republicans are good.  There is our course the website .youtube.com in front of these sites.  Sorry for not knowing how to post a web link!  is in front

/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

/watch?v=3QBRIsCKGQ0

/watch?v=PmcGKbvTLSM

/watch?v=LPSDnGHzIdo

We all know that the Republican party and many Republicans and some Democrats are shaking in their boots that the truth about the worst administration in American history will be exposed to the light of day. If the Bushies have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to fear do they? In fact they should welcome their day in court if it comes to that.

Douglass; 

As far as AF man goes--seriously all those conspiracy theories--do you have a passport??  Do you have a clue as to the process that goes on to get one? 

Yes, I do have a passport, I've had it since 1972. I have way more than a clue as to the process to get a passport.

his paperwork was checked and rechecked

Oh really? Then I suppose you can tell me what passport he traveled to Pakistan on in 1981. He obtained a passport when he became a Senator. Why did he have to get a passport when a Senator IF he already had a US passport? You aren't smart enough to ask or think of these questions , are you?

Enjoy the next 4-8 years and I hope in that time you will realize that the color of your skin doesn't make you more or less qualified for a position.

What makes you think you know the color of my skin? As if I've said ANYTHING about the color of Obamas skin, I haven't, you did. Therefore you must be a racist.

Bush and Chaney are innocent of war crimes and leading us into a war we had no right starting, but than again you probably really believe their hype. 

The President doesn't have the authority to declare war, Congress does. Once again, having a bit of trouble thinking?

The point is this.  A new era will start on January 20, 2009.  So what.  That has nothing to do with the truth.  The truth about Obama is that there are three law firms defending his ability to take the oath of office.  That one day alone will be worth Billions of dollars to him.  That is a fact.  That is the truth.

I do not believe Obama is an American citizen.  I believe there is something real funky in the whole world in general.  Now America has a democratically elected president.  That is what happened in Iran.  Possiblee.  It is funny to listen to the youngsters that haven't even started to live their lives arguing for something idiotically, lemmingly, and willing to regurgitate propaganda, faithfully, Period.

I do not believe Obama is an American citizen.  I believe there is something real funky in the whole world in general.  Now America has a democratically elected president.  That is what happened in Iran.  Possiblee.  It is funny to listen to the youngsters that haven't even started to live their lives arguing for something idiotically, lemmingly, and willing to regurgitate propaganda, faithfully, Period.

You

Are

An

Idiot.

Indeed Kim, not that I have yet to resort to calling anyone an idiot, but I do question his referring to any of us as youngsters.

I mean really, how hard is it for a person of his knowledge to not be able to make a hot link.

Lemmingly? Lemming-like, would have been more appropriate, wrong, but appropriate as Lemming-like is actually a word.

Yet again this thread isn't about Obama it is about Bush. And Brian has yet to even try to refute any of that. In a court of law I think the redirects would eventually be thrown out of court.

lol yall did such a great job causing the problems in the first place.

ford lost when he impeached nixion. The GOP gained seats when it impeached clinton. Lesson learned people dont concider following up on the rule of law as "partisan" and they do think that "no following the rule of law is partisaned agsint the people who are held up to that law and are told that no man.. no matter how big and powerful is above the law. Nah you only get punbished if you let criminals go.

TomPopp

Obama doesn't want to start a partisan war. He's doing everything he can to not let that happen. It would take some top republicans to also demand these investigations in order for him to consider it. Because it WILL start a huge shouting match that will stifle many things the two parties need to agree upon.

You sir, have it spot on. 

Everyone needs to look at the big picture now and remember our new PE is MUCH smarter than the Repub Administration and once controlling Repub congress.  He knows we need to move forward in the quickest, most united way possible.

This country needs leadership right now.  The statue of limitations is years away.  Let the dust settle, then hang the gang.

To Pacific  NW Blogger
You must be a recent transplant. The rest of the country is already laughing at how Seattle and Portland shut down and were incapable of weathering the recent snowstorms.  All because liberal Nitiwit Nickels and his cohorts were afraid to use salt!!

I would hate to let anyone think all of us in the Great Pacific Northwest are as as liberal and feeble-minded as yourself. so please don't pretend to represent the NW in your screen name. Yes, there are many conservatives in the NW who aren't moved and who won't be silenced by the liberal, green enviro-babble.

Justthefacts

You are way OFF TOPIC
 [Bringing up environmental issues you obviously don't know anything about> This is a Bush seed] And Yes I am In The NW... and hardly feeble minded. 

Oh yeah--America's hoarse voice---- so you don't think they broke any laws since lawyers were involved... well go stick your head back in that hole called Ur anus

David,

Why do you respond with hate when someone disagrees with you? Pretty arrogant to think there is only one side to an issue. We do have first amendment rights, correct? Except that you libs believe only your side counts.

Better yet let someone hold your head underwater until you feel like your lungs are about to burst letting you choke and slobber and deficate all over yourself, repeatedly doing it until you are too weak to struggle and you feel water filling your lungs

I have been waterboarded (3 times) as part of my military training, and what you described is not waterboarding. It is not torture. It is very, very uncomfortable.

So, what should we do during interogations? I know, let's bring them prime rib and lobster. Let's bring them some vintage wine. We definitely have to bring them a big screen and show them al jazeera.

Hey David.....did you grow up with any big brothers???  If so  you were probably "waterboarded".    Many kids have it done to some extent.   I prefer that over some religious nutjob (regardless what religion) chopping off a head.

I "witnessed" it too AND had it done to me........not really that big of a deal.......I knew they were not going to let me drown.   But if I were a bad guy, i bet I could really cry and complain about it.

Sleep deprivation a torture????  Well golly gee....the Army has deprived me of sleep for the past 21 years!!!!!  My newborn babies have deprived me of sleep!!!!  Maybe we should prosecute them too.

we should do what trained interogators said we should do .. which is the thinsg we have done and have worked through out many wars and through out the cold war withthe russians. Which is develop relations. the water baording produced no viable intelligence.. even the sheiks confession was found out to not be true. Every single solitary bit of actionable intelligence we have gotten since bush took office was using tried and true and army manual approved methods. Mainly by showing them we arent the evil americans peopel tell them we are. it actually works research it.

Joules, evidence please. Your rambling again...

lol clinton was investigated. we have specific charges agsint bush.. do you have specific charges agaisnt clinton.. then yes lets investigate them.. if they have a smidgeon of merit.. no one is above the law.. and some laws have no statue of limitations.. it is funyy donmt you think it is bush supporters alll crying we dont need a partisan battle liek what the gop did with clinton. "please dont do what we did" lol

Clinton had been investigated???   Holy crap..  HE WAS IMPEACHED!!!!!!!!!  Its just that it came with no punishment.

And he still left office with a 60% approval rating.

Approval rating?   I don't care about that.   Life isn't a popularity contest. That sounds like some junk from high school! It drives me nuts when we look at approval ratings. The President is supposed to do what is best for the country.....sometimes that menas making the hard choice, and not the popular choice.   I bet every tax increase in history came with a low approval rating....but maybe it just had to be done.  I bet the American people would never have "approved" of the invasion of Europe on June 6 1944 (yes, D-Day) but it had to be done in order to hasten the end of the war.

I think maybe you missed my point ben.  Don't worry about it.

lol i was about to argue but sounds like a good idea.. he doesnt even have to charge them and no one can question his athority to do so.. even the courts according to bush.. it would be nice to have a bush crime, bite him back

Nailed that one Paul!!!!  You made the bed... now you can sleep in it...

so shoudl all of congress.. you point? bush broke laws.. he should see his day in court.. ford and the gop impeachment of clinton proves the people only care when you dont investigate.. they dont give a crap if you do toooo much over sight.only if there is not enough. peopel cant stand to see crimianls go free. rememeber we are all equal there isn t an elitist american and an america for the rest of us.

TAC,

You make some good points... Obama is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place...

he is stuck on stupid

Love it!