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Congress takes up foreclosure relief plans

Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:54 AM EST
eye-on-the-economy, congress, only-on-msnbc-com, loan, mortgage, bankruptcy, foreclosure, mortgages, relief, modifications
msnbc.com News — By John W. Schoen, Senior Producer
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— With the battered housing industry at the heart of the economy’s slide, Congress and the Obama administration have identified foreclosure relief as a top priority. But the problem has been stubbornly resistant to quick fixes.

After a year of failed efforts, Congress and the new administration are considering more aggressive measures, including a possible change to bankruptcy law. Homeowner relief could come as part of a new economic stimulus plan, a revised financial system bailout program or as a standalone measure.

So far, progress remains painfully slow. More than 3 million homes have been lost to foreclosure since the housing bubble burst. Roughly one in 10 homeowners with mortgages are either in foreclosure or more than 30 days late in payments — the highest delinquency rate on record.

Without more aggressive measures, another 8 million to 10 million foreclosures are forecast over the next four years, according to Credit Suisse. That amounts to roughly one in six households with a mortgage.

“It is simply mind-boggling to me that (Congress and the White House) have moved so slowly to address this issue,” said John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, which has been lobbying for foreclosure relief.

Congress and the incoming administration are taking a multipronged approach to foreclosure relief.

"Accelerating foreclosures is obviously, in my view, the huge driving problem right now,” said Elizabeth Warren, a Harvard law professor appointed by Congress to chair a panel overseeing the financial bailout. "Until we think in a more comprehensive way, we can't create solutions that will really make a difference," she told Congress last month.

Many of solutions tried so far have been stymied by the legal morass created by the modern mortgage.

In past recessions, it was not uncommon for lenders to work out more affordable terms with borrowers who had fallen on hard times. Bankers often prefer to cut their losses by lowering monthly payments and stretching them out over a longer term rather than bearing the cost of foreclosure. But the complex system of financing the recent housing boom — which was based heavily on the pooling of mortgages that were then sold to thousands of investors — has hopelessly complicated a once fairly simple renegotiation between lender and homeowner.

Multiple classes of investors, each with different claims on the same mortgage, often have conflicting interests. Some will do better with a loan foreclosure while others would profit by keeping the loan performing. Some contracts setting up these pool pay loan “servicers” — the companies that manage mortgage payments to investors — more generous payments for loans in foreclosure and offer little financial incentive to undertake the more costly process of modifying terms.

“You have got to have the investor or their representatives come to the table motivated to do something,” said Taylor. “And that’s currently what we don’t have.”

To break the logjam, Congress is considering various proposals, including both "carrots" and "sticks."

One of the "carrots" is included in a proposed revision to the $700 billion bailout of the financial industry known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.

Now, as Congress prepares to authorize the second $350 billion in spending for the program, Democratic leaders are pressing for changes that would expand beyond the banking industry, which has been the primary beneficiary of the program. A House Committee heard testimony Tuesday on revisions that would commit between $40 billion and $100 billion of TARP funds to various foreclosure relief measures.

One proposal would expand an FDIC program aimed at standardizing the loan modification process and paying mortgage servicers a fee for every loan they modify. To cap monthly payments at no more than 31 percent of a borrower’s income, loan servicers could extend the loan to 40 years or defer some interest until the borrower sells or refinances their home. The measure would also provide mortgage servicers some protection against investor lawsuits claiming a loan modification lowered their returns.

The TARP revision also could include changes to the Hope for Homeowners program, which provided $300 billion in guarantees to help lenders refinance troubled borrowers into FHA mortgages. Lenders balked because the program was too costly; changes in the law are expected to make the plan more attractive.

Congress also is considering various proposals as part of a planned $800 billion economic stimulus program, including tax cuts promoted by the home building industry for home buyers. That could include tax credits for all homebuyers, not just first-timers, of $7,500 or more. Mortgage interest would be deductible even for taxpayers who don't itemize; tax incentives may also be given to owners who rent out vacant properties.

The most controversial foreclosure relief proposal — and the biggest "stick" being considered — involves changing the bankruptcy law to allow courts to modify terms of first mortgages on primary residences. (Those are the only form of debt currently excluded from the bankruptcy process.)

First proposed over a year ago, the latest proposal would require borrowers to contact their mortgage lender 10 days before filing for bankruptcy to give the two sides time to work out a modification. If the lender doesn’t make an offer, a judge could then adjust the loan balance to fair market value, cut the interest rate and extend the loan as part of a court-ordered five-year payment plan. There’s no guarantee, however, that a foreclosure could be prevented if the mortgage balance greatly exceeds the homeowner's ability to pay it down.

This so-called "cram-down” provision is strenuously opposed by the lending industry, which argues that the new risk that a loan will later be modified by a judge will increase the cost of borrowing.  Some financial analysts caution the move could also make mortgages harder to finance.

“Investors outside the U.S. will now view the U.S. mortgage market as riskier and therefore they may be willing to commit less capital to it,” said Jaret Seiberg, an analyst with the Stanford Group.

But that view is disputed by some economists. Adam Levitin, a professor at Georgetown University Law Center, say his research comparing mortgages on single-family homes, which are excluded from bankruptcy court revisions, and multifamily homes, which aren’t, showed the difference in interest costs amounted to a fraction of a percentage point.

“There was a statistically significant impact, but it was small,” he said. “I would expect to see that impact borne by the highest-risk borrowers, and that’s very good policy. It would inject a little prudence into the mortgage lending process.”

Though it was defeated twice in the last Congress, the measure got a major boost last week when Citigroup agreed to support the proposal, with some modifications. (One key change would restrict the provision to existing mortgages, preserving the bankruptcy exemption for new first mortgages.) The National Association of Home Builders, also a staunch opponent last year, has signaled it would consider supporting some form of the provision.

Congress also is looking at additional measures aimed at reducing mortgage rates to spur home buying, including providing an explicit government guarantee and raising limits on conforming loans issued by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. But those measures offer little relief to the roughly one in six homeowners whose home’s value has fallen below their mortgage balance.

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smargDeleted
Average Joe-333551

We need to do something to help stem foreclosures.  I say we try all of the available options.  There was greed and ignorance enough to go around getting us into this mess. 

It's high time we quit the blame game and worked out solutions to the problem.  In the end we can maybe look back and say with certainty who is exactly at fault, but right now we need to get busy and solve this mess. This is hurting all Americans. 

Oh, one more thought, F$&K the mortgage pool investors, they need to share in this diaster too!!!!

  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:13 AM EST
Leprechaun1230

Average Joe, you know, you're exactly right. Blame, Schmame!! Pointing fingers won't get OUR economy out of this serious problem. While some folks tried to be real estate wheelers and dealers and got caught with their pants down, this does not apply to everyone in financially troubled waters. You see, it seems to me that when you go to get a mortgage and discuss options with a mortgage professional, a banking professional, who you are trusting to show you various ways to make a purchase, you TRUST them to provide good recommendations. As is evidenced by many mortgages that are in trouble, this trust in professionals was sorely misplaced. Now, at least in my opinion, it's time for THEM to pay the piper.

It seems that, boiled down to it's simplest form, the problem is that with the resetting of mortgage terms, owners can no longer afford their homes and must either go into forclosure, or try to sell their homes. Well, they cant sell the homes, because now home values have plunged far below their purchase price, so the selling price, plus the fees involved in the sale, will not even come close to paying back the full purchase price so the move can take place. Where do sellers come up with the often huge difference in home current value, and the value of the mortgage? They cant do that... they dont have the money.

On the other hand, BUYERS are unable to purchase homes. Why? Basically the same reason. They are able to make payments on their home mortgages, despite the fact that they are paying off on a value that no longer meets current market prices. Usually, profit gained on a home you've been paying on for several years would be used for down payment on a home purchase. That isnt there anymore. NOW, we are in a dilemma. Buyers and sellers are stuck. Hell, even savings and retirement funds are in the tank, making things even worse.

So, here's what I think the government should do. First allow me to make this statement. This economic problem we have is, by any standard of measurement, comparable to the Great Depression of about 70 years ago, but far more complicated to get over top of.  To get things back under control we need to take drastic measures... declair WAR on this Economy, so to speak. This means making "Battlefield Decisions!" Where is the heart of this problem? In my opinion, the Average Joe... Homeowners, average Americans... the very ones that juice the wheels of the economy. We tried helping banks, and look where it's gotten us so far. The Whore bankers are still Whores, and wont lend to average Americans, or small businesses.

That being said, we take things to a different level. The government should appoint bankruptcy judges across the nation, hundreds, if not thousands of them, to get my proposal moving, and moving quickly. Give these Judges the power to completely redo mortgages. The loan amount doesnt match up with current value? Your Bank wont or cant negotiate with you? Fine, I will. Here is the current market value of your home. Your NEW mortgage, which I am going to design for you WILL. Here is the mortgage rate. THIS is what you now have to pay, and you will start off with a new fixed rate 30 year mortgage starting today. I will send this document to the address where you usually send your mortgage payment. YOU start sending the new payment we've just worked out to the same address.

The banks and investors will take a hit on the differences in mortgages, but that hit wont be as  bad as forecolsures would have been. Homeowners stay in their homes because now they can afford them. they now have the ability to spend money on usual consumer goods and the economy will begin to pick up because manufacturing will pick up, stores will get back in business, and the things that make the economy churn will improve. Jobs will be created since the economy is picking up. Admittedly, Big Banks will suffer a bit, but THEY deserve to suffer, since they were the whores at the root of this problem to begin with.

As for those who are upside down on their loans due to no fault of their own, since the value of their assets took a big hit when the economy went bad, Well... I dont have that part worked out yet, but there is a solution, if we think about it and work out a similar plan. Maybe a tax credit to be paid, equal to the difference between the current market value of their home, and the value of their home when purchased. That could work too. Also, be very lienient on down payment requirements for homeowners in this situration. I like that idea...

So, there's a solution to the home ownership dilemma. Maybe not the best, but a place to start.

  • 8 votes
#2.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:40 PM EST
logdump

   I got one thing to say to these posters who complain about their tax money being used in one way or another, Where the hell were you when this present admin was wasting 5 trillion dollars and squandering 1.5 trillion of surplurs they inherited.

  • 6 votes
#2.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:53 PM EST
Greg-281912

logdump, screaming as loud as possible, that's where.

Writing letters to congressmen, that's where.

Marching, that's where.

Oh well.  At least I can say I didn't vote for Bush...or Clinton...

    #2.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:06 PM EST
    Average Joe-333551

    I like your idea Leprechaun !!!!!!  Some would be hurt by this , but more will be hurt if we do nothing.  In the long run, I know we will hit a bottom and see housing prices stabilize.  If we do nothing, it will take longer and the bottom may be lower than we want or can handle.

    • 2 votes
    #2.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:21 PM EST
    TraceyG

    Whatever solution that is used to get the economy out of the tank will correct the investment losses. The value of my portfolio has decreased in value at the moment but technically I havent lost any money. I only lose money if I sell now. I am still buying shares every week and increasin the number of shares I have, getting more now that I was a year ago for the same amount of money. So, if people keep their houses, start buying stuff, business make stuff and start making money again, then the market will increase and now I have more shares than I did a year ago and therefore have a more valuable portfolio. That is as long as the market is still good in 30 years when I retire.

    • 1 vote
    #2.5 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:41 PM EST
    wq-610538

    For starters make the banks use the money for lending purposes - because so far that is not where the money has gone. 

    Then make the banks honor the value provided to them by the appraiser that they pressured to give high appraisals.  That is not the borrowers fault that the bank had appraisers juice their numbers.  This would support loans to a lot of people and would help them get the lower interest rates and help them keep their homes.

    Lastly, tell the banks that since they are getting public money they now are obligated to work each borrower currently in default through a restructuring program to redo their mortgage.  Since they are getting tax dollars we should make them put those dollars to work for everyone.  Banks should have to do this BEFORE they start foreclosure on the mortgage.  The Bank inability to deal with this matter is a very big part fo the problem that we have.  They would rather kick people out of homes and then sell the homes to investors that they know and allow the investor to then resell the home at a pretty nice profit margin.  Then the banks use the federal dollars to offset their losses.  Nice don't you think?

    • 1 vote
    #2.6 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:16 PM EST
    jbudet

    dear wq

    Whew! are your thoughts all mixed up. Go Ahead and still do not believe that if your neighbors home is foreclosed on that you home will not come down in Value. that's why values are still going up, I guess in your neighborhood. yeah!

      #2.7 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:53 AM EST
      David5000

      Dear jbudet,

      I am willing to bet that you are in hot water because you bought several properties that you thought you could flip for a quick $50k each and now you want bastards (you term) like me to pay for your mistakes.  No thanks.

        #2.8 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:18 AM EST
        wq-610538

        jbudet

        I did not say that foreclosures do not bring values down.  So I guess I do not get your point.  Never said my home has gone up in value - it has not.  If you think my thoughts are mixed up fine - what are yours?  Do you think that foreclosures should be stopped so that people do not have to pay the loans back?  So then why would anyone pay on their mortgages at all.  That would sure be good for the economy. 

          #2.9 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:12 AM EST
          Matt in Chicago

          Don't forget, the blame and ignorance extends to the homeowners who bought places they couldn't afford.

          What is the "solution" there? Oh yeah, they can't pay their mortgage and they lose their house???

          Just because people made fiscally risky and even irresponsible decisions, does not make it our responsibility to save them.  I am sorry if this is harsh, but where does it end?

          Don't destroy people's credit when they lose their home... but if they can't afford the home they bought... then they should lose it.  Face it people, for those who have made safe financial decisions, there is no bailout or relief.  It is unfair to ask them to pay for other who didn't exercise fiscal restraint.

            #2.10 - Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:24 PM EST
            Greg-281912

            spider, well, that's called capitalism.

              #2.11 - Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:29 PM EST
              Reply
              will-793570

              nancyforO, May God be with you and your family. I wish you the best!

              • 1 vote
              Reply#3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:23 AM EST
              NancyforO

              will-793570

              I am a tough old bird but am brought to tears by kindness. Thank You

              • 1 vote
              #3.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:47 AM EST
              Charlie-in-PA

              Leprechaun1230 -

              While I see the logic in your argument, your solution causes more problems than it does solutions.  Yes those with homes they can't afford/probably should not have purchased get a break.  But that is rewarding those who caused the problem in many cases.

              Also this will drastically increase the cost of loans for eveyone else in the future.

              Currently banks in a traditional forclosure sell the propery to re-coup what they can, sometimes they make money, mostly they lose however.  The Loss is booked but there is now more moeny to lend at the market rate. 

              Your scenario forces a bank to keep loans on its balance sheet with negative values due to the loss associated with the readjustment.  The bank is forced to write more lucrative loans to balance out those that were re-adjusted.  No recoup of any money to re-loan. 

              Hence more expensive loans that are harder to get for buyers, hence people can afford less house, hence property still declines in value as the average transaction is for less $.

              For loans not still held by banks investors of mortgage backed securities will be suing left and right for every adjusted loan due to the stipulations in the contracts they purchased these securities under.  If the government overrides the original contracts, they are undermining the financial system by saying,

              "US Investments can now be changed from the original form if we say so.  Thanks for playing, Uncle Sam." 

              So really this won't work. 

              We allowed this situation to get out of control when home prices outpaced income levels across the country.  My wife and I are under 30, we saw this three years ago and didn't buy because we've been waiting for this crash.

              This has to work itself out as a market correction.  There will be casualties, anytime assets get overvalued someone loses out when the correction occurs.  In this case its the average American because our overvalued assets were homes, and it is a shame no one stopped this from happening, but 4 years ago everyone was too busy making money and spending that equity.

              The only solution is to let the price level bottom out, once that happens we have a starting point to move forward from.  Establish then just how bad the damage is because now we don't know.  Re-structure loans in the meantime so that the principal is maintained, but under a more affordable payback scenario, which lowers interest rates and extends payback periods.  This is fair for banks and homeowners. 

              Other than that there isn't much we can do, aside from reversing our trade deficite and getting our wealth back... but that is a different discussion.    

                #3.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:07 PM EST
                Chili WonkaDeleted
                Reply
                robinscat

                I find it so infuriating and frustrating that the greedy folks that got us here in the first place have had to provide no accountability for the first $350 B they have already received and that money was used for bonuses for the greedy folks that got us where we are!  Amazing! the rest of us regular folks would be in jail for what they pulled.  Remember, the original intent of the $700B Bailout was supposed to be to help the people that were losing their homes.  Everyone is getting hurt by this but none of that money was used to help the ones that needed the most.  The banking industry bought out other banks instead of doing the right thing!  Oh yeah, they are so special.  And they have the audacity to fight against what they should have been doing all along.  All of them belong in jail and right now for their criminal actions that have caused so many problems for so many people.

                • 5 votes
                Reply#4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:52 AM EST
                cramer

                I agree.  The bailout monies did not work because the banks held on to the monies, gave the CEOs outragenous bonuses, did business in resorts, kept up their sports crap, etc.  Congress screwed up the first time, why should be get excited about this next round of so-called help. 

                • 2 votes
                #4.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:33 PM EST
                logdump

                    There is a story out there that they are now loosening crdit. It takes awhile for it to get into the right hands and also they had reverse incentive to loosening it because there was another pot of gold in the second 350 billion they could get their hands on. Now that they cannot do that readilly they are turning the money loose. We need a few years of very stringent loaning in this country. Before it was too easy to get in debt. Tightening credit may be a good thing for some of us as it will teach a lot of marginals to live within your means.

                     When I was younger I got into a credit crunch right out of college. I made a decision to not purchase anything else on credit for one year. I saved for what I bought until I had enough money to buy it. Often when I reached the goal I found out I could do just as well without it just as many times as I went on and bought it. I paid down my outstanding debt to zero reactivated my credit and was much smarter on how I used it there after. That was 45 years ago. I cannot recall being called by a bill collector since then.

                    I have no idea why more people do not do this.

                  #4.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:03 PM EST
                  Carlos Toadvine

                  For the banks to take a handout from the government and then turn on the taxpayers is crazy.  Seems to me the taxpayer is screwed coming and going.

                  • 1 vote
                  #4.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:04 PM EST
                  Reply
                  Lyras

                  But the problem has been stubbornly resistant to quick fixes.

                  Why on Earth would you want to "fix" foreclosures.   Foreclosures are the solution, not the problem. 

                  • 3 votes
                  #5 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:00 PM EST
                  NancyforO

                  Lyras

                  You are not taking in to account the number of people who have lost there jobs. There is a big difference between speculation purchase and owner occupied. When you have no money coming in due to economic conditions not brought on by average people but by what the government has done then what do we do? Do we let the Cookie crumble where it may with out regard to good people who like myself have worked hard to keep what little we have? Shall we allow the person who has struggled their whole life to fall so as to cure the over spender? I do not see that I will ever own a second home but would love the keep the one I live in. I have gone through all my savings to keep my home. Yes, I saved my money but now it is gone. Does that make me one of the looser you speak off? I am one of many who has done all I can to keep what little I have to see it all disappear in the blink of an eye. No retirement until I am 67 and even that is not enough. How much more can we do with out before we turn to dust, taking all the ones who have had the good fortune to have a bigger savings account?

                  We have forgotten that we are one. We think there is me and there is them. We think we are better than them or worse than them. We are the them as them is all of us. We no longer feel concern for our neighbor but rather think of what they may need to sell for cheap when they are foreclosed up on. We have become our own worst enemy.

                  I still plan to give a part of what little I have to someone else who has less. Why? Because I know they would do the same for me.

                  • 1 vote
                  #5.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST
                  Lyras

                  NancyforO,

                  You sound like a decent person who has fallen on hard times and I sincerely hope you are able to keep your house.

                  My vitriol is aimed at system failures, not individual failures (although you could certainly argue against that distinction).  I, too, have played by the rules only to see the rules of the game changing day by day in what appears to be a fairly capricious manner.  I live in coastal so-cal so I'm surrounded by people who are masters at gaming the system.  So that colors my view of the world as well.  I look at all these changes with an eye toward how they will be abused (and they WILL be abused).

                    #5.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:38 PM EST
                    NancyforO

                    Lyras

                    Thank you and yes I am a decent person I think. I now live in the mountains of North Carolina but until 5 years ago I also lived in Ca. The gaming system is the same here as in Ca. except they are sneakier here. I know- hard to believe but Ca. does not hold a record for underhanded actions. I thought it would be better here compared to Ca. but it is not better just prettier so at least the colors I see here compared to Ca. are lovely, it is still kill or be killed. They are not even more polite when they stab you in the back. It was my biggest hope to find people to be more gentle when I left Ca.  Abuse is national I guess. The system failure is national where ever people live. But thank you for saying I am decent.

                      #5.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:09 PM EST
                      marco-815169

                      No bailouts!!!!! If you've lost your job, you should have at least 6-12 months of savings to cover living expenses. That plus unemployment and the will to work at a lower level job will have to get you through. If you can't afford your living space, sell and move to another space. If you are under water, you bought more than you could afford in the first place. (No one should ever bank on real property appreciating year over year. In fact, to mitigate risk, you should have at least 30% equity in your home to mitigate a large drop in real property values.)

                      • 3 votes
                      #5.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST
                      Average Joe-333551

                      marco - I have friends who have lost 50% of the value of their home already. They can still pay thier mortgage and are doing just that depsite being upside down and screwed.  If I lost my job and went a year without finding another (which could happen in this economy) I would lose my home too.  So would most Americans. 

                      This is not about blame and what caused the problems.  This is about fixing the mess we are in and moving on.  If what you mean is no bailouts to fix this mess, then well, I am gonna have to disagree.

                      • 3 votes
                      #5.5 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:38 PM EST
                      Greg-281912

                      Marco is right.

                      We are all accountable.  Period.

                      If you buy a house, you should have back up plans to make your mortgage payments in emergencies....ANY KIND of emergency.

                      • 5 votes
                      #5.6 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:49 PM EST
                      stormerF

                      Once we face the fact that there are a lot of people out there that can't own a house the Deomcrats my stop trying to get the banks and mortgage companies  to make bad loans.The problem can not be fixed as long as the government wants to keep everybody in a house.Many people have only themselves to blame for signing for a house they could not afford.

                        #5.7 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:50 PM EST
                        logdump

                         Foreclosures are the solution, not the problem

                        Go read about CDS's and CDO's and your mind will be changed quickly.

                        Primarily in the past you were dealing with a local bank or lender for your mortgage. Now your mortgage is probably part of a security that has been chopped up into many pieces and held by a lender who has purchased the debt in a security package which is backed by a CDS. Used to be if you lost your job or got sick you went to the bank and made an arrangement with them to tide you over until you got back on you feet. Now since the whole has became many parts they cannot arrange a stopgap without getting many different holders of your paper to agree.  Since these holders of the paper have insured their investment via a CDS it is better to force you into foreclosure and collect on the cds than it is to arrange something for you.  Thats why many are in foreclosure.

                              Then there are the speculators who own multiple properties that were bought for investments. I read a story on a high rise condo building in Florida. The woman they interviewed had 6 of them. The asking price at the time the thing was finished was 1.5 million each. It went up to over 2 mil each. When the crash came it dropped like a ton of rocks and ones on sale there now are being offered for around 900K. So in effect she owes 9mill for property that is now less than 3mil. Nevada was the biggest place for expansion in the housing industry at one time and now is the leader in foreclosures because of the fact that properties are worth less than the mortgages that are outstanding on them.

                              We owe these people nothing. What we do need to do is help the persons whos house is their castle who got jammed in this bank fiasco.

                          #5.8 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:17 PM EST
                          Average Joe-333551

                          We are all accountable.  That is correct, but, sometimes cirmstances are beyond our control.

                            #5.9 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:30 PM EST
                            ms-397461

                            Circumstances may be out of your control, but action is not.  You adjust to life as your life changes.  You lose a job, you get a new one.  If you cannot afford top-brand clothes, you buy cheaper ones.  If you cannot afford filet mignon, you buy chuck steak.  Why do we feel that owning a home is different?  Because we live there?  It is stupid.  If you cannot afford your mortgage payments, you do not have a RIGHT to continue living there, and I do not want to have to pay for you living there either.

                              #5.10 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:41 PM EST
                              Greg-281912

                              ms, AMEN!!!

                              I, personally, have had to move around the country to stay employed, while some people bought houses and are now whining that the factory down the street has closed down and they can't make their mortgage payment.

                              What in the world makes you people so special that you feel you can buy a house, finance it for 30 years, and then for some reason you feel that the government/corporations, whatever, is/are obligated to send to you a paycheck for those 30 years?

                              The world has changed, folks.  Wake up and smell the coffee!  (But don't expect me to make your mortgage payment!) 

                              • 1 vote
                              #5.11 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST
                              IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
                              Greg-281912

                              Well, Immigration, perhaps that is true.

                              I do believe in a smaller government and more freedoms (and accountabilities) for each and every citizen.

                              However, even more intervention isn't the solution to intervention in the first place.  Like other people have said, and I quote, that's like "giving an alcholic a martini."

                                #5.13 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:58 PM EST
                                spareme

                                we purchased our home in 1983.  We both had good jobs and could have afforded a larger more expensive house.  We chose to buy a house based on ONE income instead of both, in case one or both of us lost our job.  As it is, I was off work for 28 months - no income at all - and we easily made our payments. 

                                Too many people buy what their REALTORS tell them they can afford.  When times get rough, payments cannot be met.  They don't care if you can make the payment or not.  They got their commission and made their money.

                                • 1 vote
                                #5.14 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:58 PM EST
                                David5000

                                Average Joe wrote:

                                We are all accountable

                                No -- we are not all accountable.  I wanted to no part in getting a mortgage that was five to eight times my income.  The home prices out in southern California were just insane compared with the typical income.  It did not take a rocket scientist that we were headed for disaster.  I continued to rent and save my money.  Why should I share in your loss when you did not share your equity gaines with me during the good years?

                                  #5.15 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:27 AM EST
                                  Matt in Chicago

                                  logdump, CDS and CDO did not cause this problem.  They are most definitely a symptom of it, but not the problem itself.  The government mandated credit be extended to those who have bad credit... while at the same time lowering interest rates close to zero.  The combination of the two created a HUGE credit market... all of which the government encourages.

                                  Now we are faced with the problem that many of these people had bad credite for a REASON... so now we have to save them from themselves?  That is insane.

                                  Fiscal responsibility requires that people and Congress act responsibility.  No one said it was easy.  But then again, being an adult isn't easy.

                                  For people who are hard hit by the economy I would be willing to extend them a grace period... but that is ONLY if they could actually afford their place before everything went south!  If they could never afford it, then they shouldn't be protected nor should we have to foot the bill for their lack of fiscal responsibility!

                                    #5.16 - Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:32 PM EST
                                    neddy-372632

                                    Maybe Nancy O could rent a room out to a boarder to make ends meet...prove that she is broke and get some tuition to go to a community college..get some skills..make herself marketable..MOVE!! to where there are jobs..In order to keep making payments on my house, I stopped eating out and even stopped eating in...Missing a few meals didn't kill me. Looking to the government to save my ass never occured to me..I guess I don't have the LIB mindset.

                                      #5.17 - Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:55 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      Lyras

                                      The most controversial foreclosure relief proposal — and the biggest "stick" being considered — involves changing the bankruptcy law to allow courts to modify terms of first mortgages on primary residences. (Those are the only form of debt currently excluded from the bankruptcy process.)

                                      You forgot to mention that, in its current form, the proposal limits cramdowns to loans originated prior to the bill's hypothetical passage date.  Nice eh?  So not only does your spendthrift neighbor win the bailout lottery with a principal reduction but, should you fall on hard times in the future, you won't be the recipient of similar largesse.

                                      Approximately 31% or the nation rents, 23% own their houses outright, and a substantial percentage of the remaining population have loan-to-value levels of 50% or better and are in no danger of being underwater on their house.   So most people (a substantial majority) are in no danger whatsoever of losing their house to the bank.  Why should these people bail out (through future tax obligations) the small minority that bought too much house? 

                                      Understand that these loan mods are often virtual lottery wins for the lucky borrowers.  A principal writedown (the holy grail of workouts) is a gift of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars (often tax free) to the luck recipient.  That's right, your spendthrift neighbor gets the big bailout while you get to toil away like the good citizen that your are.

                                      You will hear numerous counter arguments trying to convince you that these loan workouts are for the public good.  These are easy to refute.  The first, and most common, is that loan workouts will arrest the decline in home prices thus indirectly benefiting the majority of the population (67% are homeowners).  This is NOT the case.  Loan workouts can be broken into two broad categories: no principal reduction and principal reduction.   Workouts that don't result in principal reduction (e.g., interest rate reduction) have a very high rate of recidivism.  For the most part, they simply don't work.  At best, they delay the inevitable foreclosure.  Workouts that do result in principal reduction are also fundamentally deflationary.  Principal reductions can be thought of as foreclosures where the homeowner is allowed to repurchase the house.  The net result is that they are now in at a much lower cost basis.  When the time comes to sell the house, they can sell it a much lower price than their neighbors (who were too prudent to win the bailout lottery).

                                      Might as well let the market work it all out.  Let house prices fall to a level that is supported by market fundamentals (i.e., let house prices fall until price/rent ratios are in line with long term averages).  The foreclosures will happen, but it's not the end of the world.  In a few years, these foreclosed upon borrowers will return a much more favorable housing market and they can buy a house that's actually AFFORDABLE in absolute terms vs being  "affordable" because of loose lending.

                                        Reply#6 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:23 PM EST
                                        Average Joe-333551

                                        Your argument is well said, but I couldn't disagree more.

                                          #6.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:04 PM EST
                                          logdump

                                          Why should these people bail out (through future tax obligations) the small minority that bought too much house? 

                                             In a nutshell if the last part of this were true you may have a case. You and others bought into "bought too much house red herring" which is a bank and lender propoganda piece.

                                               No one is going to get bailed out. All they want to do is fix those martgages that are fixable. A lot of people bought ARM mortgages which were a slick way for the Banks to get people into a home based on future earnings. As long as the economy was booming they were not a problem. Now that it is in the tank these are garbage. Fixing them to fixed rate thirty year mortgages will go a long way to reducing said foreclosures. However this will probably only apply to a certain number of them because some are not held by one bank or lending institution but several in a CDS security.

                                                Whats the sense in fixing them as opposed to doing nothing? Because the problem fire is self feeding. More foreclosures equals devaluation of existing neighborhood properties which leads to more foreclosures etc etc etc.

                                            #6.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:37 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            realitychequer

                                            They better do something soon. I am already foregoing diabetes, cholesterol and hypertension meds, spending 3/4 of my monthly salary on my fixed rate mortgage and will have to go delinquent this month just to by heating oil. NJ doesn't offer a dime to anyone without children. I came off a $62,000 salary to $36,600 because of a combination of age discrimination and the failing economy.  I don't think I am unique. There are probably many others in a similar predicament. 

                                              Reply#7 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:00 PM EST
                                              moneymaddness

                                              Last night I watched a Representative Bean on CNBC. She said that the government should write down people's mortgages who are in trouble or underwater. If it isn't done, your house, as a neighbor, will go down in value. But I would think that all of the houses in the neighborhood will go down in value if your neighbors house is written down, as the appraisal will be for less. I think the government should stay out of it. What we need is income in this country. Not borrowing on inflated, bubble priced houses. Congress thinks the answer is to free up credit. They are wrong. We don't need credit, we need good paying jobs. Credit is the problem, not the solution.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#8 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:11 PM EST
                                              NancyforO

                                              moneymaddness

                                              You are right. I would do almost any job. I would scrub floors or anything even though I was once a professional. There are just no jobs at all where I live. I look many times a day to see if any job has posted but not one job has posted for a long while. I am not worried about buying on credit, I am worried about finding a job. At 61, I am less desired than I was at 30 even though I would work harder.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #8.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:27 PM EST
                                              rgarrettDeleted
                                              George-313012

                                              money - you are right.

                                              The US personal savings rate was minus 0.5-percent in 2005 - the lowest since 1932 (the peak of the great depression)

                                               

                                              Now the current economic depression is largely caused by the US public - who since 1960 has been on a glutinous spending spree.   Who can be so stupid to believe they have the god-given right to free everything (homes, health insurance, cars, vacations, etc. etc.) - yet this is what most believe - let the government pay for it.  Let someone else pay for it - I deserve a free ride.

                                               

                                              "June 2006 - Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan warned that the low savings rate is impairing the nation's long-term economic prospects. An improved savings rate would provide investment money for businesses, which would create jobs, he said.  Though Americans' savings are falling, their net worth is rising in large part because of soaring home prices.  But there is growing concern the housing bubble will burst, leaving millions of families nursing debts larger than their homes."

                                              "Critics argue Greenspan's willingness to protect investors from their own speculative excess created what they called the "Greenspan put" - a one-way bet that ensured they would never have to account for their gambles. At the same time he allowed a succession of asset price bubbles to build up, one of which was the spike in residential property prices."

                                              We need a president willing to tell the American public the free ride is over and we need a congress willing to encourage savings via lower cash asset tax rates.  Instead we get lunacy from Obama, Pelosi, Reid and all the rest - including the Republicans.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #8.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:13 PM EST
                                              logdump

                                                 In a nutshell you are perfctly correct. That is the pure and simple answer most ignore. In effect we have put the goose that lays the golden eggs on life support and in that condition it cannot keep producing eggs. Capitalism works from the botom up not the reverse and if your base has no money the entire thing collapses. Henry Ford gave his workers a raise so they could afford his product and that should be a lesson not forgotten. If you do not reinvest in maintenence on the machine called capitalism it no longer works very well or at all.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #8.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:43 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              BCChris

                                              Do people realize that the lenders would rather foreclose than let people bring their loans current?  My son is a realtor who, despite setting aside 6 months of expenses for the down times, wasn't prepared to go a whole year with no income.  He worked with the lender to try to avoid foreclosure, but when he was able to bring the loan current, they told him not to pay because they wanted to foreclose instead.  Does this make sense to anyone?

                                              • 1 vote
                                              Reply#9 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:53 PM EST
                                              stormerF

                                              It doesn't make sense to me,I would think the Bank or mortgage co,would want the money not the property unless they already had another buyer(speculator who was buying up blocks) or the property was close to being zoned commerical?

                                                #9.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:57 PM EST
                                                rose ann

                                                same thing happened to our next door neighbors...their house was for sale, impending forclosure, they had 3 bids on the house.  Their mortgage co. turned them all down, they wanted to forclose!!????!!

                                                  #9.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  happy-315907

                                                  bank exec insiders, wall st. insiders, and mortgage giants all have access to buying forclosed houses for pennys on the dollor.  we're talking thousands of homes per person. i love america.

                                                    Reply#10 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:00 PM EST
                                                    IMMIGRATIONFORYOUDeleted
                                                    Reply
                                                    Biggdogggg

                                                    hmmmm, for all you people who think that the government bailout of the banking industry is going to help you, forget it... I guess I am fortunate, I still have a job and my house is paid for. Now I am trying to get a loan of less than $10K and the banks won't even talk to me unless I have a substanial amount in my savings account. And I have excellent credit to boot. I do not have an answer for anyones problems, the current administration will not help you and neither is the incoming one either... Were I in a position where I had a substanial balance on my mortgage I would most likely just walk away from it.  I wish everyone the best of luck. Well most everyone, some brought it on themselves, minimum wage job, $250K home, why should those folks be bailed out. To everyone who deserves help, may you get it and live happily ever after,,,

                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#11 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:05 PM EST
                                                    Average Joe-333551

                                                    The other side of this problem is frozen credit.  That will be just as hard to solve as foreclosures.

                                                      #11.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:34 PM EST
                                                      logdump

                                                         Credit will loosen now that the other 350 billion will not be available for awhile. After all lenders make money doing what? Lending money and they have to or close up. They have the money and were probably holding out because they saw more coming. Since that was delayed they will turn it loose.

                                                          In fact there is evidence that money is now showing up in the credit industry.

                                                        #11.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:51 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        George-313012

                                                        It says - John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, which has been lobbying for --- blah, blah

                                                        The Community Reinvestment Act (CTA) is the source of the Sub-prime mess.  Carter got it going in 1977 and Clinton made it worst in 1993.  CTA forces banks to lead mortgage money to minorites - without regard to if they can pay it back.

                                                        The bank crooks ran with it with the encouragement of low interest rates from the Fed.

                                                        Damn it - this is the problem - not bleeding heart stories

                                                        And the $700B had nothing to do with mortage relief

                                                        If Obama pushes this - he should be impeached

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#12 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:05 PM EST
                                                        rgarrettDeleted
                                                        NancyforO

                                                        George-313012

                                                        I am a 61 year old woman, does that make me a minority? I did not over pay for my home 5 years ago. I CANNOT FIND WORK. Rather than blaming it would be best if we could figure out how to fix the job market. Blame gets us nowhere fast. We need jobs to fix the problem. I would love nothing better than being able to make a living.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #12.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:18 PM EST
                                                        Dave - Twin Cities

                                                        Very good and true points.

                                                        The bubble had to pop.  Continuing to feed money into the problem is like pumping air into a leaking balloon ... At some point you are going to run out of air and the balloon is still going to deflate.  Money will only prolong the problem, not fix it.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #12.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST
                                                        lvingbarefoot

                                                        Nancy, if they would get rid of illegal workers, we would all get a raise. 

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #12.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:44 PM EST
                                                        George-313012

                                                        Nancy - your situation is unfortunate.  But but I dont see how Obama is going to get you a job with his plan to completely distroy what is left of the economy.  Are you saying you what a free house - we all do - lets see that will be 100M free houses?

                                                        When the criminals Pelosi, Reid, Frank and Dodd get through we will "all" be living in boxes under the bridge

                                                        Eliminating congress would be a good start on fixing the problem

                                                        Bottom line - I doubt if the USA will last another 5 years.  So we can all start feeling sorry for ourselves.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #12.5 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        Ron-402159

                                                        ...must to be nice to be so sure that everything is that black and white, when it's anything but.  No amount of finger-pointing will do any good (and I noticed it's aimed at Democrats).  Both parties contributed to this mess, just as both borrowers who weren't qualified, as well as the brokers/loan oficers who took their loan applications did.

                                                        Real solutions are needed, not complaining or name-calling.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        Reply#13 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:14 PM EST
                                                        NancyforO

                                                        Ron-402159

                                                        I could not have said it better. Just wish I could think what to do.

                                                          #13.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 PM EST
                                                          stormerF

                                                          But the Democrtas want to keep it going Ron,We need to clean house at the top to stop the BullS-it politicans from pushing the banks and Mortgage companies to make more or buy out sub-prime loans.   they spent 350Billion dollars and have no idea where it went,there is even some going to CEO's  bonuses of the banks we bailed out. Now all of a sudden they want accountability for the next 350 billion? Screw them no more money till we know where the first 350 billion went.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #13.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:05 PM EST
                                                          lvingbarefoot

                                                          Proper finger pointing is a good thing. If we point out the people that are screwing us, maybe they won't get reelected. Can't guarantee that in this country. 

                                                            #13.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:07 PM EST
                                                            George-313012

                                                            Some above have it right.  One big problem with Dems - is they are such BS liers.  Does anyone really belive a Kennedy cares anything about anyone but themselves.  Repub's are liers without so much BS.

                                                            And blaming Pelosi is entirely correct - she and the rest of the Dems were in such a big rush to give $700B to the banks, they forgot to notice the masks the banks crooks were wearing.

                                                            Some said Obama lacked experience - now he is proving it.  A warmed-over FDR New Deal is not going to work with our current problems - too much debt.  Didn't work in 1930-1940 either. 

                                                              #13.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:03 PM EST
                                                              Ron-402159

                                                              One big problem with Dems - is they are such BS liers.  Does anyone really belive a Kennedy cares anything about anyone but themselves.  Repub's are liers without so much BS.

                                                              So one liar is better than the other?  Both parties are equally full of it and until a reasonable, coherent middle-ground is achieved, NOTHING will ever change.  2-steps-forward-1-step-back DOES NOT WORK.  It's akin to school playground mentality.

                                                                #13.5 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:27 AM EST
                                                                Reply
                                                                The partys overDeleted
                                                                will-793570

                                                                I feel that anything unregulated will turn sour. Greed fuled these bankers. The jobs lost are not lost. There overseas. When America busted unions in the seventies, that wasn't enough. Now lower wages was the goal for "CORPORATE AMERICA". To ensure employment for Americans corporate America must be held accountable by Americans. Busness has grown too powerful. They influence lawmakers to dance from there sheet of music. In days past, busnesses where boycotted by the people. The government is our only hope to regulate these GREEDY PEOPLE. And nancyforO, I know that words are not helping your situation, so if it's any consolation to you I hope everyone reading this will pray for you and your family. I pray that this situation will turn around for you, May God Bless You!

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                Reply#15 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:21 PM EST
                                                                lvingbarefoot

                                                                Wake up Will. The government caused the mortgage problem by strong arming banks into bad loans in the name of fairness. Do not rely on them to fix anything. They won't even get rid of illegal workers so the wage base can raise and our tax burden can shrink.

                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                #15.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:39 PM EST
                                                                stormerF

                                                                Well said, lvingbarefoot  and true,to bad the Democrats and liberals can't take the truth.

                                                                  #15.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:11 PM EST
                                                                  Average Joe-333551

                                                                  I did not see any strong arming when I worked in the mortgage industry before the bubble burst.  All I saw was greed and stupidity on the part of the banks and a minority of the purchasers.  Even the conservatives I worked with agreed that banks were going to regret what they were doing.  Quit trying to lay blame on one party and start working on a solution.

                                                                    #15.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:35 PM EST
                                                                    lvingbarefoot

                                                                    I did not mention any party, I think both sides are dirty, that is why there are no congressional hearings. We have them for steroids in baseball, but not this. Um, how come? I am a licensed mortgage broker as well as insurance agent. At our level we were not forced, we were able to profit because of the poor standards the government did push on the banks. Read congressional records, educate yourself. If something bad is done, do not stand by it just because it was "your" party.

                                                                      #15.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:55 PM EST
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      dave-815156

                                                                      Lower the value of homes, so if you have a $400,000 home it is now worth $350,000, refinance loan down along with payments per month so families can survive. Use the $700 billion dollars to fund the banks and investment firms with the loss of that money.

                                                                      Write a law stating the exact amount of money a person/family can borrow for a mortgage, based on their annual income minus their current debt, and establish an oversight board that will review all loans created. Hold each company responsible for allowing anyone to borrow more then established amounts and close all companies who create "bad" loans.

                                                                      Bring back personal responsibilities; where we take into account our needs more then our wants. If you are making $50,000 a year, with 2 kids....purchasing a $400,000 home is probably not the best idea. Buying a flat panel high end hdtv or wondering how we are going to heat our homes and feed our families.

                                                                      Fix the education system - I've got some ideas - to build a foundation of citizens who are not so far in debt before they start careers, have an understanding of financial responsibility and are educated to a level in which they can succeed as well as create a bigger and brighter future then the generation before.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      Reply#16 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:24 PM EST
                                                                      peter-530030

                                                                      So let me see if I understand this.

                                                                      My neighbor and I bought identical homes 10 years ago for $200,000 apiece, I put $50,000 down he put nothing, keeping his $50,000 in the bank (he therefore has a higher rate of interest). My outstanding principal is $150,000 his is $200,000.

                                                                      Now with the demise of the housing market the value of our houses declines to $150,000 and he is now unable to pay his mortgage but I am.

                                                                      The way this seems to read is with the new package, his outstanding principal is going to be reduced to $150,000 as a result of the renegotiation.

                                                                      Now the market turns around and we both sell our houses for $220,000.  His net gain is $70,000 (220,000- 150,000) mine is $20,000 (220,000-150,000-50,000).  So because he took a chance and didn't put any money down on his purchase he comes out 50,000 better at taxpayers expense.  What's wrong with this picture?

                                                                      Then to add insult to injury, his payments will more than likely be lower than mine in the interim.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      Reply#17 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST
                                                                      rgarrettDeleted
                                                                      benramz2

                                                                      Peter - Not only are you getting less of a profit but you are also going to end up paying more property taxes. As the values of the houses go down, the cities will modify the formula to calculate property taxes to keep the money flowing into the government. So, your house is 200K your neighbor took a write down so his house is worth 150K. I have no sympathy for those who took advantage of the mortgage market - both sides lenders and borrowers. Why should American tax payers bail out those who mad ebad decisions?

                                                                        #17.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:54 PM EST
                                                                        Average Joe-333551

                                                                        This is where no solution is going to be fair to all of us.  I would keep my house too and end up with less profit.  If helping my neighbor helps stabilize the market and my home's value, it is a price I am willing to pay. 

                                                                          #17.3 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:38 PM EST
                                                                          jimd-815259

                                                                          peter 530030-

                                                                          what is wrong with the picture you described is that if congress passes legislation to intervene the way you described, I believe they have comitted a criminal act against you as a private US Citizen. Our government has risen to a level or tyranny and citizens have allowed it. Our founding fathers inserted checks and balances to avoid all of this but it doesn't seem to be working

                                                                            #17.4 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:51 PM EST
                                                                            Greg-281912

                                                                            Exactly.

                                                                            And Peter, because your community must maintain a specific tax base, it's possible your tax rate will go UP while your "poor/needy" neighbor's tax rate will go down, or even away!

                                                                            What are you people thinking?  Tax bases pay the local policemen, firemen, etc.  Those people who are up-to-date on payments will have to pay MORE to make up for the people who are going to be allowed to pay less!.

                                                                              #17.5 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:02 PM EST
                                                                              jbudet

                                                                              Dear Pete

                                                                              The mistake on your part was that you were convinced probably by a Realtor or banker to put $50,000 down. If you had it now you could by your neighbors identical house for $125,000 or less and only with $12,500 down.

                                                                              The worst part about it is that your neighbor payment is not that much different that the one your making!

                                                                                #17.6 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:11 AM EST
                                                                                wq-610538

                                                                                The last thing in the world I want is to have the government tell me what I can afford.  Bad idea.

                                                                                The fact is that people were free to risk it.  They were free to buy a house that was more than what they could afford.  If they took that risk and got a better job and watched their pennies so that they could pay on the house then they deserve to keep it.  If the risk did not pay off then they should lose the house.  They took that risk - they put their family at risk.  Why should they get bailed out with my tax dollars?

                                                                                I lost a lot of money in the stock market - I took the risk when I invested.  Why should I be held to this risk - that investment should go up.  I think I should be refunded my loss.  This type of reasoning needs to stop.

                                                                                Lenders should pay for their risks.  Borrowers should pay for theirs.  How about pumping money into the thousands of banks and credit unions that made good choices under good leadership.  Maybe they can come in and fill the void left by these large banks that pushed the envelop in order for their execs to make millions.

                                                                                  #17.7 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:24 AM EST
                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                  lvingbarefoot

                                                                                  Most of these people put nothing down and paid interest only, how is it their house.

                                                                                    Reply#18 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:35 PM EST
                                                                                    dave-815156

                                                                                    Lower all values...with outstanding mortgages by a certain percentage.

                                                                                      Reply#19 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:36 PM EST
                                                                                      Big J-815189

                                                                                      WHat do I get, I live below my means and can pay my bills!!!!!!! You can't afford it, too bad. No nest egg, why? live below your means and live on cash and you too can be self reliant.

                                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                                      Reply#20 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:45 PM EST
                                                                                      Greg-281912

                                                                                      Big J, I'm like you.  I live beneath my means.

                                                                                      But it looks like you and me and every American who lives below/within their means are going to have to foot the bill for those who were greedy and lived above their means.

                                                                                      Sickening isn't it?

                                                                                        #20.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:03 PM EST
                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                        Eric T-815190

                                                                                        Rather than handing the bailout money to banks and insurance companies, where it simply is being used to cover their operating costs, why not rewrite mortgages as follows:  If the homeowner and lender agree (this is totally voluntary), the government buys the mortgage at 80-cents on the dollar (the lending institution surrenders the remaining value since they were part of the problem).  The mortgage is re-written to reflect a lower value (80% of original) at a fixed 4% annual rate for 40 years.  This would allow many of the owners to afford the new mortgage.  When the owner sells the property, they repay the government the FULL value of the principal, not the 80% reduced value.  In this way, the owner is giving the 20% back to the taxpayers as profit which is fair since the owner was part of the problem too.  This approach is simple, understandable, and allows taxpayers to effectively buy real estate in a down market at a reduced cost making it a great investment.  In five years, the 700+ billion could easily come back to us as 1+ trillion.  Let's watch the banking lobbyists fight this idea. 

                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                        Reply#21 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:46 PM EST
                                                                                        Tired of Criminals

                                                                                        This is just their way of waving this under our noses so they can get their hands on the other 350 million. They have not interest in helping the average American. They are selling our home to other countries as fast as they foreclose on them. We will never see a dime of that money, GWB got his half to give to his buddies and set himself up for life and Obama will get the other half with the Clinton's. The biggest heist in the history of the world and we watch it happen and a lot of you even voted for it.

                                                                                          Reply#22 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:46 PM EST
                                                                                          James Moroney

                                                                                          The article gives mention to a lender argument that less money will be made available to the mortgage market if borrowers are permitted, within a bankruptcy filing, to lower the amount of their mortgage to the underlying property’s fair market value. There are existing subject matters of bankruptcy law that prove up the falsity of this argument:

                                                                                           

                                                                                          1)   Bankruptcy courts use state law in recognizing bankruptcy exemptions – meaning what debtor assets stay with the debtor. In Missouri, for example, the homestead exemption is $15,000. By contrast, the homestead exemption in certain states is unlimited. Contrary to what many might think, the percentage-of-bankruptcy-filings in “unlimited dollar homestead states” is no higher than in states where there is a dollar limit. Also, there is no indication that mortgage interest rates are higher in “unlimited dollar homestead” states.

                                                                                          2)   As the article points out, the bankruptcy rule against lowering a home’s value to fair market value is an exception. By contrast, in the bankruptcy court, a commercial debtor can purchase his mortgaged shopping center for the property’s fair market value. Likewise, a debtor in bankruptcy can purchase his automobile for its fair market value rather than the amount owed. There is no statistical evidence to suggest that this treatment lowers the availability of credit extensions.

                                                                                          3)   In bankruptcy, if you permit a lender to foreclose what is that lender’s net cash recovery? Of course it is the net amount realized at a foreclosure sale. Why not let the borrower refinance the property at its fair market value? The lender obtains more than he would have received at a foreclosure sale. Such a treatment results in no bailout by the government.  Simply  stated, the lender is getting what he would have received if he had been allowed to foreclose. The loss to the lender occurred in fact when the loan was granted in the first place.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          The bottom line is that no one will file bankruptcy solely to gouge his lender. Homeowners file bankruptcy because they are up against the wall and have no alternative. Most mortgage lenders will not renegotiate. As a matter of fact, in many cases they won’t even answer their phones!

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Debtor Bankruptcy Attorney, Springfield MO

                                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                                          Reply#23 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:47 PM EST
                                                                                          Jessica-732913

                                                                                          If everyone bought his/her house with 20% down payment, we would never be in this place. Most of people in forceclosure now are those who either can't aford a house they bought in the first place (like income of $40,000 buying a house $350,000 and with no rainning day fund in bank and credit card debts) or over estimated housing market growth like a chance taker.   These are irresponsible people and nobody should bailout them! Only a small percent of people in forceclosur are due to family medical issue or long term lost job, those are only people who need help.

                                                                                           

                                                                                            Reply#24 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:51 PM EST
                                                                                            George-313012

                                                                                            Jessica - you are so right - lack of 20% down is 90% of the problem.  Had home-buyers met the standards of the 1940-1960's (20% down and fall-back money in the bank) we would not had a sub-prime bubble.

                                                                                            Those that brought more house than they could afford - have destroyed the USA and all who live in it - including their children and grandchildren.

                                                                                              #24.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:26 PM EST
                                                                                              Reply
                                                                                              mikeb-815208

                                                                                              the bailout should have never gone to creditors who simply mishandled the money in the first place. Had the money been distributed to every tax paying american there would be no current crisis, people would not be losing there homes and they would be out spending money boosting the economy and creating jobs. Even with the bailout money available to the banks and creditors to give loans out it won't help because people don't want loans that they can't pay back. So now we have given all the banks and financial companies money that they can't give away to anyone other than to pocket it.

                                                                                                Reply#25 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:55 PM EST
                                                                                                MINIme-472320

                                                                                                dave, that was an excellent post.  Although your treatise may sound simplistic to some, I do not view it as such.  I'm tired of hearing how difficult every possible solution is and how the difficulty of all aspects of these economic times need intenese scrutiny and complicated psuedo-solutions.

                                                                                                It really does not have to be more involved than what dave said.

                                                                                                The problem is the archaic and cumbersome manner in which congress does business in this 21st century.  It is no longer 1801.  Congress must lead by showing the ability to come together.  Otherwise why would business and indeed most individuals do anything less than "me first"?

                                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                                Reply#26 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:55 PM EST
                                                                                                NancyforO

                                                                                                rgarrett

                                                                                                You are what this world needs. Someone who works hard but believes in America.

                                                                                                For those who are mad because they put more down on there home than someone else, I put 20% down on my home when I bought it 5 years ago. I need a job to keep it. It is not what you put down on your home, it is if you have employment so you can make the payment. How can you all not get that? Who cares what anyone put down and what difference does it make what the home is worth? It can be worth $100,000 or $700,000 all that matters is if you have work to pay for it and you all are over looking that ONE SMALL MATTER. IF I COULD FIND A JOB THE VALUE OF MY HOME WOULD NOT MATTER ONE BIT. I love my home and I want to keep it for myself and my family. My family could care less about the neighbors except we want to see them keep their home as well. Plus how does everyone know what so and so put down anyway? Get real all of you and grow up.

                                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                                Reply#27 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:56 PM EST
                                                                                                lvingbarefoot

                                                                                                This money will not be used to bail you out. The banks are the ones who will use the money. If you bought 5 years ago with 20% down, there is a good chance you have equity, the bank will not have to seek release on your loan. They will foreclose and take a profit.

                                                                                                  #27.1 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:01 PM EST
                                                                                                  NancyforO

                                                                                                  Having equity will not help me as there are no buyers out there. The only one who will profit is the lender. I am a Realtor and we are getting maybe two closed sales a week in the board where there are 800 members. I put a letter out to Realtors last year and ask that they please not take over priced listings as I could see what was coming. They all laughter at me then. I listen now but do not hear one person laughing now.

                                                                                                    #27.2 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST
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