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Generation Y job-seekers hit hard

Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:37 PM EST
business, only-on-msnbc-com, careers, job, workers, she, gen, younger, gen-y, gen-yers
msnbc.com News — By Eve Tahmincioglu

Christine Chase, 24, searches for a job on her computer in her apartment in Campbell, California December 8, 2008. Chase was laid off from her contractor job at AT&T in the Silicon Valley in August, and is struggling to pay her bills with the money she receives from unemployment. With the holidays approaching and four fruitless months on the job search, she recently registered with a recruiting agency for help finding a job. Silicon Valley companies that initially resisted the swooning of the economy are looking to cut costs and shed entry-level positions, and people in their 20s are finding a college degree is no longer their golden ticket to a dream job in high tech. To match feature FINANCIAL/JOBS-TECH REUTERS/Robert Galbraith (UNITED STATES)

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— The land of milk and honey is souring for Generation Y, just as its members get their careers into full swing.

With the unemployment rate skyrocketing, employees under 30 have the most reason for worry. Joblessness is far higher among younger people than for those later in their careers.

For workers under 29, the unemployment rate jumped to more than 11 percent in December, compared with under 9 percent a year ago, according to Labor Department figures. That is far worse than the overall rate of 7.2 percent, up from 4.9 percent a year ago. The rate for teenage workers, from 16-19, is far worse -- approaching 20 percent. For workers in their 30s and older, the rate is still under 7 percent, and generally declines as workers get older.

The staggering jobless numbers for twentysomething workers are no surprise to Lindsey Rhein, 24, of Placentia, Calif.

She’s been out of work for nearly four months after getting laid off as a legal assistant for a construction company.  She’s applied to over 700 jobs and has gotten only seven interviews, leading nowhere.

Even with a master’s degree in forensic psychology and a bachelor’s in sociology, she hasn’t been able to land a sales associate job at Target, and she can’t even get a call back from McDonald's, where she applied for the fast food chain’s management training program two months ago.

The experience has shocked Rhein.

“We were told it was our generation's time to shine, that we could achieve our dreams plus more,” she says. “When I was laid off I thought finding another job was going to be cake.”

At a time when the nation is struggling with one of the worst economic downturns since the Great Depression, Gen Yers like Rhein are facing a rude, job-hunting awakening. They often have to stand in line behind their more senior counterparts as any companies lucky enough to be hiring take their choice of more seasoned job applicants.

So baby boomers rushing to get Botox or dress hipper in order to compete in a tough job market may want to reconsider.

Older workers seem to have a leg up on the youngsters. It’s a harsh reality that happens in almost any downturn, economists and labor experts say, but this one has been particularly hard on younger workers because many were blindsided.

“Recessions almost always have the same consequences — experience pays off,” says Edward Stuart, economics professor at Northeastern Illinois University.

Given that this is a “macro-economic recession,” he adds, the job losses have been widespread, across almost all industry groups, making it even harder on younger workers, most of which have never experienced a severe economic downturn. “New entrants into the labor force tend to be younger people, and companies don’t want to hire them now.”

Another factor keeping the jobless rate high among younger workers may be their  unwillingness to accept any job that’s offered, says Todd Steen, professor of economics at Hope College in Holland, Mich.

“When you’re younger you’re willing to look a little more, maybe move around or live with parents,” he says. “If you’re 50 with a mortgage, you’ll do anything to work hard.”

Indeed, James Anderson, 29, says, “I could have had a job by now if I lowered my expectations on salary and the job.”

Anderson, who earned a degree in electrical engineering from the University of Michigan in 2007, was laid off in October from his contract position at General Motors’ research and development center in Detroit. After a fruitless job search in the area he has decided to move to Boston to live with his sister because he believes there are more job opportunities in the Northeast.

He’s not happy to be moving away from where he grew up, but he hopes the move will lead to his goal of getting a job in the computer industry.

“A lot of people are taking a little less,” he explains. “I’m not ready to concede.”

Some career experts believe it’s that kind of mentality that hurts many Gen Yers because they aren’t willing to start small and pay their dues.

“This is the most educated generation, and they were told, "You're special,’ ” notes workplace consultant J.T. O'Donnell. “Well … they’re not special, and they end up going out into the professional world and finding this out.”

She points out that many of Gen Y folks didn’t work as teenagers or during college, and that makes them ill-prepared for the realities of the work world.

“Moreover, by the standards of the older generations who currently hold most management jobs, Gen Y is also viewed as woefully unprepared to jump in and work effectively in a professional setting,” she adds. “As a result, many employers don't feel they have time, energy or money to bring Gen Y workers up to speed — especially when studies show Gen Ys job-hop every 18 months.”

Lyndsay Rush of Chicago admits she was being a bit cocky when she left her job with a stock brokerage firm in July without having another gig lined up.

“I figured I was 25 and it was time to make a career change, so I took the leap. I wanted to go into marketing or writing,” she recalls. “There was some overconfidence there.”

She has been unable to find a job in those fields and so has accepted temporary positions.  In the past three months, she has applied to 80 jobs, including ones that were not directly related to her future career goals.

“I was under the assumption that we were at the age that everyone wanted to hire,” she says.

To release some of her job-hunting frustration, she has launched “Bob Loblaw’s Job Blog,” based on a character in the show "Arrested Development character," about the misadventures of the jobless.

Younger workers are finding out the hard way that they have to hustle to land their dream job, says Debra Condren, business psychologist and author of “Ambition Is Not A Dirty Word.”

“These young adults don’t know how to jump in and be aggressive,” she says.

“A lot of us parents wanted our kids to focus more on school, not part-time jobs,” she notes. “Then they went to college, and we helped them out financially. And there are also the super crazy parents, the ones that go on job interviews with them.”

She believes the recession will light a fire under the Gen Y crowd as they go head-to-head with older workers. They’re going to have to pound the pavement, take less money, work their way up the ladder, she advises, just like the generations before them. But the future is uncertain for all age groups in the this deep recession, which has caught even well-seasoned professionals by surprise.

“Imagine if you were a young person who’s never lived through a downturn,” she says.

Rhein, the legal assistant, certainly was not prepared.

“Growing up, my parents were telling me, ‘The world is at your fingertips. All you have to do is educate yourself, go to college, and you’d get a prime position right out of school.’ They were wrong.”

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DW-580669

Born at the bottom of the baby boomers and all of my freinds getting jobs in 1979 I graduated in 1980 and the automotive industry was in near the same situation. It is number 2 for me and think the first was a good lesson in economics.I have never lived beyond my means after age 20 at which there was a time that I didn't have money to fix a flat tire and that was the begining of a passionate strive not to depend on anyone for my needs or wants. Good decisions and motivation got me through life very well with a highschool education.This is a cycle and rewards will come to those who are worthy.

  • 7 votes
#1 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:16 PM EST
George King

This generation of young folks truly have a hard row to hoe.  Thanks to crooked financial institutions, corrupt politicians, big oil, we will have a WASTED generation or two.  These kids are our children and grand children. May God help them.

  • 11 votes
#1.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:12 PM EST
Leglace24

I don't think this is a problem specific to Gen Y. I have not been able to find a full-time job in my field for six years and was told by one prospective boss that frankly, he would not hire anyone OVER the age of 30. I graduated the same time that you did, DW-580669, and also had a very hard time finding a job in 1981. I do think the experience taught me to be resourceful. I feel I am right back in that same place as a 40-something, however. No one wants to hire people with experience because they don't want to pay the salary. In my line of work it is the kids right out of college who are being hired while workers by age are being offered buyouts or being laid off.  

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:32 PM EST
Un-Common Common Sense

Welcome to the real world folks! It seems like you Gen Y people might actually have to work for a living now! PS: I hear they are hiring in China and India right now.

  • 11 votes
#1.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:47 PM EST
nukelar

common sense - do they speak their language? oh good then , I was worried for a minute..........

    #1.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:56 PM EST
    crazy cajun

    My job requires hiring entry level sales reps and it is sad to say but I typically do not give under 30's much consideration due to the work ethic that most of them seem to have.

    • 7 votes
    #1.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:03 PM EST
    Don't Underestimate Gen Y

    I think that this article is an unfair assessment of my generation.  I am 23 and a recent college graduate.  In high school, I held 2 part-time jobs, back-to-back in the summer.  At college, I held 3 different work study jobs.  After graduation, I accepted a position with AmeriCorps participating in National Service for a year.  My year is up in July and I'm afraid that I won't be able to get a job.  Having said that, I already anticipate having to take on a full-time AND part-time job just to pay for my college debt, as well as just make the bills.  I can comfortably say that I am NOT the only person my age who is in a similar situation.   

    If you really think that my Generation is "not paying it's dues", that's sad and you have grossly underestimated my generation.  I ask you to kindly think back and remember what the 60's and 70's and even 80's were like for you.  Nice role models that we have to look up to, don't you think?  

    • 1 vote
    #1.6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:51 PM EST
    Un-Common Common Sense

    To Don't -  Gen Y, As an employer I can honestly say that I don't think I have underestimated your Generation. That's not to take anything away from you personally because there are always exceptions and I know there is some outstanding young people out there. That being said I have a hard time finding anyone from your generation willing to except entry level positions and those that will are usually covered in gross tattoos, piercings, and a cell phone that seems to be permanently attached to their head! God forbid that you might ask them to actually do some work, that is if they evened bothered to show up. It seems just asking them to spend 8 hours away from My Space is asking too much! By the way since you asked I pulled out my "old dusty brain" and thought back to the 60's , 70's & 80's. Guess what? Yes we had hippies, Punk Rockers and Disco idiots but the difference was they were the exception and normal hard working loyal Americans were the majority. Don't believe everything you see in the movies! Yes looking back I can most certainly see a huge difference in the generations and your generation has to be the most lazy, self serving, egotistical, it's all about me generation of all time. I really feel sorry for your generation because I suspect hard times are going to be here for a long time and you will have to adapt to the fact that this world is not here to serve you! But hey, that's life!

    • 11 votes
    #1.7 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:17 PM EST
    allie-819595

    I agree with you, I am only 21, I have had a job since I turned 16 and got my license, I am a college junior now. I have worked full time since getting out of high school, I also have a part time job on top of that so that I do not get stuck with student loans, and I decided to go to community college before going to a university to save a lot of money.
    I am sick of my generation being so lazy. I just transferred to a four year university and the sense of entitlement is overwhelming. I seriously don't even want to go to school sometimes because these "young adults" mostly talk about partying and what kind of jobs they expect to get.
    It really does not surprise me at all that these people cannot find jobs they deserve to play catch up and get what ever job they are able to get so that they have real world experience that so many of us generation y people as a whole do not have.

    • 5 votes
    #1.8 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:20 PM EST
    BZe1

    Dont Underestemate Gen Y,  just because you have conducted your self in a responsible manner, does not mean that all of your generation have done the same.   There are still some kids, even in this economy, who are expecting their parents to not only pay for tuition, but also their room and board.  They are still intent on going to colleges in other states,  even although there are Ivy League colleges that are closer, where they could still live at home, thus the outlay would only be for tuition.  There are even some who believe that their parents should continue to pay their way through a Masters degree program and for some even through to a PhD, and think that their parents are being selfish when they are told no. Lol

    One wonders if some of the debt that people are carrying is not related to the cost of sending their children to college?  How many homeowners have dipped into the equity of their homes or their 401Ks to pay for their child's college tuititon? What will these parents get as return on their investment?

    How many of these kids, do you think, will be turning around and helping their parents when they get old or older or do/will some of these parents see spending their waning years holed up in a Medicaid covered nursing home in their future?

    How many kids do you think will be or are helping their parents, who have lost a large chunk of their retirement saving, in the present financial implosion?  How many of the younger generation want the older generation to just step aside so they can get their job, even although they are not qualified to do that job or those jobs?

    It is time the younger generations take responsibility for their lives and their actions and learn to sacrifice like the boomers etc. had to do which in many cases, working their way up the ladder.  How many are willing to work the late and night shifts, weekends and holidays or do they want to just go straight to days, no weekends or holidays?

    Like it is said "you have to go through to come through" and some of the younger generation does not seem to feel that they should have to go through to come through imo.   One may even say this downturn in the economy is a good lesson for many, who did not think something like this could ever happen.  It is giving them an opportunity to rethink their short term views on money, instant gratification, savings, pensions, jobs, careers, schools, unions, etc to a more long term plan in these areas.

    On the other hand, considering what you have done and have accomplished so far in your life and in building an impressive resume for someone of your age group, this should serve you well in your job search imo. 

    • 5 votes
    #1.9 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:21 PM EST
    bob5ford

    The last time I looked the military was still hiring. It would give the Gen Y'ers a chance to EARN the citizenship rights that they seem to take for granted.

    • 2 votes
    #1.10 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:09 PM EST
    BIGTIMEj

    yeah they can learn from role models like dick cheney adn rush limbaugh.

    • 2 votes
    #1.11 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:14 PM EST
    Accipiter

    To Don't Underestimate Gen Y - I'm going to be in pretty much the same situation as you when I graduate this spring - I'm 23, and just graduating with my M.F.A.  You'd think I'd be able to find a job teaching right away?  Well, that's looking pretty grim.  You have to have at least a few years teaching experience for all college teaching positions, even the non-tenure and assistant teaching positions.  How is one supposed to get a start?  I'm terrified because I have so much student loan debt. Like you, I worked multiple work-study jobs in college but we got federal minimum wage ($5.15 an hour at the time) and were only given a few hours per week.  That's not enough to pay off loans.

    To Un-Common Common Sense - I'm sorry you've had to put up with the 'rotten apples' of our generation, but I can say that those you had the 'pleasure' of meeting are not in the majority.  That said, many of us are unwilling to accept entry level positions not because we feel we're below the work, but because we're leaving college with huge amounts of student loan debt that requires a higher-paying job.  I would be willing to accept an entry-level job if it would supply me with enough income to make my monthly loan payment.

    A lot of us Gen-Y job seekers aren't looking for a high-paying job to buy flat-screen TVs and fancy cars and expensive gadgets - we just want to make enough to get an apartment and not default on our student loans.

      #1.12 - Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:14 PM EST
      jola

      YES, THANK YOU. Don't you older generations understand that we have $30,000 in debt from student loans right out of college?!!? Why in the world would we get a minimum paying job after WE WERE TOLD BY OUR SCHOOL TEACHERS we would get a good job enough to pay off our debt?!? I am just pissed off because I have worked so hard since I was 13 and now, I can't even find a stable job. And I had my last job for over two years so you can't say that I "job-hop". What are we supposed to do? Lie on our resume? Go past do on our student loans and ruin our credit? BTW, my @!$%# wasn't handed to me on a silver platter. My father is a drunk and a drug addict and I grew up poor and I had to take care of myself. Don't you DARE generalize us Y'ers.

        #1.13 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:45 PM EST
        Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

        And the sad part about that "jola" is that those are most likely the same people that didn't have that problem because back then parent's were responsible enough to pick up their children's college. Somehow between the 70's and today adults stopped boarding their elderly parents (instead, shipping them off to old-folks homes) and stopped paying for college for their children.

        Don't understand why...they went from one income to two, but I guess taking care of those before and those after became less important that taking care of themselves.

        That said, my wife stays home to take care of the kids and our kids have a fully funded pre-paid college fund...so we're working to reverse the damage done so our kids don't have the problems that are unfortunately plaguing you jola.

        If I could say anything, remain resilient and persistent and when it comes time to look out for your children, remember what you're feeling right now and you too will be able to undo the madness started by the generation that preceded you.

          #1.14 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:27 PM EST
          Reply
          Wake Up People-394315

          I believe there is something to be said about Gen-Yers not wanting to pay their dues.  They seem to be a generation that feels they deserve a high paying job right out of school, a brand new mcmansion and a SUV and BMW parked in the driveway.  They don't understand that their parents and grandparents had to work long and hard to get where they are today.  It takes time but they want it immediately. 

          • 20 votes
          #2 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:00 PM EST
          Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

          That seems to be very true...watching TV shows where "kids" (my old moment at 38) are looking for their first house away from "Mommy and Daddy" and they're wanting hardwood floors, stainless appliances, granite counters...

          (We) parents worked to get those things, going from the 400 sq. ft 1/1 with carpet and vinyl just like everyone else.  I don't mean to "go there" but get over yourselves and start like we all did...you'll find you'll be happier (because you appreciate what you earned more).  A little struggle isn't going to kill you; it'll actually make you tougher (and more prepared to handle what we're going through right now.

          • 19 votes
          #2.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:55 AM EST
          krock-737246

          Thats what every older generation says about the younger generation.  I remember when candy bars costs a nickel.....   On the other hand, the boomers are the ones that are the CEO's, Congress, thes same people that have ruined the country. 

          • 13 votes
          #2.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:50 AM EST
          icepick151

          Krock:  great point.  so much criticism is directed at these lazy kids (there is truth in the idea of Yers feeling entitled to instant gratification though) when it is the older generations that have put the government/economy/etc in the state that it's in.  And when it comes down to it this isn't gen Yerspaying their dues, it's about them finding decent jobs at all because of the mistakes of many individuals and institutions.

          • 5 votes
          #2.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:32 AM EST
          JollyRogers

          Interesting story. It wasn't so long ago that if you were over 40 and were out of a job for whatever reason that no company would give you the time of day. They figured you were washed up and that they could hire younger, more skilled workers in their 20's and 30's for less money.

          • 4 votes
          #2.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:46 AM EST
          Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

          Note that I never said that a generation was "lazy"...in fact the Gen Y and dot com kids are amazingly occupied, but it seems that they are only interested in making a "parallel move" from their parent's house to their first place to live.

          I remember the old, "walked 10 miles in snow up to our chins to school uphill...both ways" but what's it say when kids that are pre-teens are thinking they should have cellphones these days...as if that is a $100/month expense is a "need" that someone 9 or 10 should have...

          Again, the things I mention (hardwood, granite, stainless) are things usually costing upwards of...well...let's see...our hardwood was about 25k, our granite...7k, stainless...about 5k.  So figure we've saved and spent close to $40,000 to get our home the way we want it.  Do you NOT see a problem with one of say, my kids EXPECTING their first place to come with those things?

          I think I'd drop dead if one of my children said, "i'm not taking this place...it doesn't have granite counters".  That's what I'm talking about.

          • 15 votes
          #2.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:50 AM EST
          21st John

          I'll be damned if this article isn't an attempt to stereotype younger people in the workforce.  What a bunch of bull****.  What a crock.  There are people of all ages that are materialistic.  Young people did not make the messes they are now forced to overcome.  What a heaping bunch of crap this article is.  The facts are that there are very few opportunities out there right now and even fewer companies are willing to train graduates that do not have working experience in the field they were educated in.  Young people aren't asking for free rides, they just want a level playing field with an opportunity to succeed.  Let's hope that this generation doesn't take on the same mantra as the baby boomers when it comes to business in this country.  The baby boomers have raped this country for personal gain and call it "working harder than others".  There is a generation in this country that has screwed things up so badly that it will take many generations of serious sacrifices to correct the problems.  The baby boomer generation in politics has already pissed away every penny of social security and medicare that it donated in their working years.  It will be the young people that will be paying those bills and likely not receive the same benefit.

          • 11 votes
          #2.6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:27 AM EST
          luso-1980

          I understand your point, there are a lot of Gen-Yers that are exactly like that.  But then you have Gen-Yers like myself (i'm 28).  I started working in highschool, doing a work-study program, worked for that company for 2 years while i took a night business course.  My second job is the job i'm currently in (i've been here 9 yrs), a lot of the courses i'm taking in college i've know this info just from work experience.  I don't think i'm being lazy by wanting a job that pays for my experience and the college degree i will be getting in a few months.  I believe in hard work and loyalty, my parents showed me that when we moved to the US and worked hard to get every little thing we have. Not all Gen-Yers want everything without hard work.

          • 3 votes
          #2.7 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:41 AM EST
          Tad-401841

          I think its BS to associate any generation with any stereotyping. It's the individual that determines who and what they are and how successful they may become. Economic conditions and luck mays have a part in it but we really should be viewed as individuals and not groups of generationers as labeled by many. 

          • 3 votes
          #2.8 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 PM EST
          KarenH-338062

          I believe there is something to be said about Gen-Yers not wanting to pay their dues.  They seem to be a generation that feels they deserve a high paying job right out of school, a brand new mcmansion and a SUV and BMW parked in the driveway.  They don't understand that their parents and grandparents had to work long and hard to get where they are today.  It takes time but they want it immediately. 

          Actually, I know more boomers who got a great job right out of college, easy, than the Gen Y kids.   As for my own Gen Y kid, my husband and I always told him he has to go to college,  study hard, work his ass off, and maybe he'll be successful.  Well, he's in college, studies hard, works 20 to 40 hours a week while taking classes full time, is honest and cheerful, is interested in the law and civil rights, but I still don't hold out much hope that he's going to get a job other than at the Denny's as a bartender.  Not in this economy.

          • 9 votes
          #2.9 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:19 PM EST
          jaciesmomGEN-Y

          Who do you think is to blame for the mentality of Gen Yers. Where do you think they/we come up with this, I wil get a job if I go to school, do good, and apply myself..... TEACHERS AND PARENTS!!!!!!!!! We don't come up with this stuff on our own. This is a learned behavior. I personally KNEW I would have to wrok my way up, being young and female has its disadvantages. It took me over three months to find a job after I moved to a larger city. I have TWO degrees and BA and a MA. So what is my point????? I actually think the parents of Gen Y are to blame because things were different for them when they entered the market and they SPOIL thier children. Shelter them, pay for everything for them and cuddle them when things don't go thier way. The REAL world is a tough place and parents should instill that in thier children. YOU are entitled to NOTHING fellow Gen Yers.

          I am thankful to be in a great job and can only hope that my fellow Gen Yers will have the same kind of luck I did. But let me tell you, I am the lowest of the low at my job and I am learning new things everyday to try to advance my career.

          • 5 votes
          #2.10 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST
          icepick151

          jaciesmom:  you might be in danger of over generalizing an entire generation.  Regardless of what some parents and teachers do, some kids just have this built in sense of entitlement which of course leads to laziness.

          Your generalization goes on to include apathetic or misguided teachers and parents which is also dangerous.  i don't deny that there are bad parents and teachers out there but to demonize not only and generation of young people but also their parents and teachers of an attitude or way of being is neither fair nor realistic.  These traits you describe (in both children and adults) are not exclusive to the here and now.  Nor do i think that they have more that their fair share of these traits.  I think in many ways it's the same as it's always been (at least in post WWII United States).  Generation Y is fundamentally no different than their predecessors.

          • 2 votes
          #2.11 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:56 PM EST
          NEVER FORGET

          I agree "wake up people". I knew someday this "it's ALL about ME" would catch up to them!

          • 4 votes
          #2.12 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:12 PM EST
          Econ 101

          I have employed roughly 2000 people in the gen "yhiner" bracket. Is it their fault that they are ill equiped to work in the real world?  Not so much, schools, parents and government have embraced this politically correct, no fault, no loser mentality for 10-15 years creating a large pool of unprepared for life people .  If a Y'er was ambitious enough to get a job, the govenrment has made sure that they cannot do anything useful, would you like fries with that sir?  I have seen all of the negatives in this article, yhiners do not have skills, yhiners are unwilling to work, yhiners expectations are too high and they are resisitant to reality.  The not facing reality part is the yhiners fault and will create the greatest hardship for them. 

          There are exceptions to every rule, I have two Y'ers that make in excess of 50k.  The things that made those two different? They were on their own at 16 and luckily they did not fall into the traps of life.  They did what humans are suposed to do, grow up when your a teenager, not when, as the whole of human history has shown, an adult. 

          • 9 votes
          #2.13 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:13 PM EST
          greg-367337

          Oh yes... the Y generation is asking "Y"... I'll tell you "Y"...  You are now paying for your misguided consumption, and so are we.  Enjoy, idiot!

          • 2 votes
          #2.14 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:05 PM EST
          greg-367337

          Sing along and follow the bouncing ball:  M-I-C, K-E-Y.... M-O-U-S-E.

            #2.15 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:13 PM EST
            Mr. Rogers.

            If the kids are ill prepared, spoiled, and selfish... might the parents hold some responsibility? Are younger generations not the product of the older ones?

            I am gen Y (barely) and know many other Gen Ys that are very hard working smart adults. I held my first job at 14, selling computers to business. In any event, I left the traditional workforce to start my own company 4 years ago and it was the best career move I ever made.

            • 1 vote
            #2.16 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:27 PM EST
            Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

            I would have to agree with you "Mr. Rogers"...this new paradigm shift in child rearing...like this whole "no keeping score during games b/c we don't want anyone to be a loser".  WTF?!?  Doesn't it build up the ideas that:

            1. You won't succeed at everything you do
            2. Healthy competition is good (as it teaches you humility)

            Children with TV's in their rooms, talking back to their parents, calling their parents out...we've "PC'd" the upbringing of a generation and in the process failed to equip them with what reality is like (because it's not like "reality TV") and how to survive when times are really tough.

            • 4 votes
            #2.17 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:47 PM EST
            MITReader

            I have to say I agree with you somewhat, since I have friends who are expecting to get good jobs even in high school, but the job market right now is tuff for anyone, especially for someone trying to get their first job.  I'm willing to start at the very bottom, but not many companies are given people with no experience a chance.

            You would think that it would be easy to get a job at say Target, Walmart, McDonalds or other places that are willing to give first time job applicants a chance since they are low paying; but most of the companies don't.  What is happening now is that many people who do have experience are working two jobs to help pay for the house.  The last 2 times i went to a fastfood drive-through it was workers 30+ who were giving me food, not the teenagers I would normally expect to see.  I didn't apply to 700 places, but I applied to about 70 fastfood chains and retail stores willing to do any type of work for any amount and only got 2 calls for interviews. 

            • 2 votes
            #2.18 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:54 PM EST
            Knitty

            I definitely blame the parents, the entire generation of helicopter mommies and daddies who raised their kids to believe that life would be easy and everything would be handed to them on a silver platter.  Mind you, I'm not against indulging your children and loving them enormously, but our primary job as parents is to prepare our children for the world they will live in.  It seems that a lot of parents have utterly failed in this, and it's really very unfair to the kids who were told silly things like "just get your college degree(s) and then the world will be waiting to give you goodies!"  Maybe this was true in the past, but things have shifted dramatically in this country and god only knows when/if the easy time will return.

            Parents need to return to teaching self-discipline, self-sacrifice and mastery.

            • 4 votes
            #2.19 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:08 PM EST
            Mr. Rogers.

            this new paradigm shift in child rearing...like this whole "no keeping score during games b/c we don't want anyone to be a loser".

            Thank you for saying that.  They can't even give out the REAL academic awards in our schools anymore for fear of making the other kids feel bad. They have to hold a special awards ceremony for it. In the general awards assembly kids get things like "Cute smile award", and "friendly attitude". This way everyone gets something... I know everyone needs to be encouraged.. but that is not REAL life and these kids will NOT be prepared...

            Greed ribbons for all!

            • 5 votes
            #2.20 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:41 PM EST
            Indy TX

            We've got a school district here where teachers aren't allowed to give anything below a 50. Someone doesn't turn in any assignments ... it's just a 50, not a 0. And do you still wonder why recruiters can't trust High School GPAs? Or wonder how anyone who grows up in this type of fairy tale land can really comprehend how the real world works?

            • 1 vote
            #2.21 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:07 PM EST
            Accipiter

            I only want a high-paying job out of school because without one, I won't be able to pay the student loans that made it possible for me to get an education in the first place.  No, not greed here, just necessity.

              #2.22 - Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:21 PM EST
              Jason Anthony Gieske

              That seems to be very true...watching TV shows..."

              Well, that's a definite problem...you're getting your information about our generation from TV??? Good grief. TV only chronicles the lives of the rich, famous, and spoiled. I can't believe you would try to use that as your source. Maybe if you didn't watch as much you'd be better off. As my generation is to computers, yours is to the TV. And re: the post above yours, a SUV and a BMW? What in the world? Generation Y abhors SUVs, and BMW??? That's what our hippie/yuppie professors drive around, not what we drive. We drive those rust-bucket  4 cylinder cars from the 80's that y'all sold to the 2nd-hand auto dealers 20 years ago. You know, the ones that make a lot of noise 'cause the muffler fell off, which makes you grumpy 'cause you're trying to sleep when we drive by. Most of us are happy just to have cars start up more often than not in the winter. And I personally haven't even had a car for the entire length of my college career.

              • 1 vote
              #2.23 - Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 PM EST
              Reply
              58rose

              and to think i worked 33 yeras put 2 sons thur college just have them to lose there houses there jobs and all that goes with it.  all for what greed of the few. well i tryed.

              • 6 votes
              Reply#3 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:00 PM EST
              Curt-1979

              I think this is a very generic and stereotypical view of "Gen Y."  I am 29 and have held a job of some sorts since I was 12 cutting lawns for my father, worked 2 jobs while in college, and joined the military immediately after.  This is the first year in my life that I have made over $50,000.  So, while some of those "young kids" think they deserve it all, not everyone fits the mold.

              • 9 votes
              Reply#4 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:21 PM EST
              Boiler06

              I agree. I am 24 now, had my first job at 15 and have worked ever since. I do believe that it is the parent's who make their kids lazy, not the kid. I have a  degree from a great university and make a salary that barely pays rent. I worked 2 part-time jobs while being a full-time student in school while signing up for over 50,000 dollars in student loans. It's hard to swallow a generalization of my generation that doesn't pertain to me, but also to a lot of my friends and former classmates. I've put in my dues and now I'm struggle to even get my loans in on time. We were told "if you go to college, work hard, you'll be fine."

              Now I've got a piece of paper from a university that has put me $50,000 dollars in debt, a job that barely covers my loan payments and a crappy generalization that tells me that I am part of a generalization that feels "entitled." I don't think so.

              • 5 votes
              #4.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:36 AM EST
              Matt in Chicago

              Don't worry, when I was graduating from college (i'm 37) I remember being told how lazy Gen-Xer's were... There is probably something to be said for each generation having high/unreasonable expectations... but the complaints never seem to change.

              One anecdote, I am a patent lawyer... salaries in my field have gone through the roof... basically because it is difficult to find technical people (engineers and scientists) who have gone to law school.  But even with our high salaries, we are finding it harder and harder to find new associates (25 and 26 year olds) who will work hard enough to bill the minimum number of required hours.  I find this very depressing, they are making a ton of money... but can't bring themselves to work for it.

              • 5 votes
              #4.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:02 PM EST
              Byl

              I seem to remember we were called slackers Matt.  And now us Xers are stuck between the Boomers who won't leave and the Gen Y folk who are ready to move on up. It always leaves me shaking my head, wondering if it will be Gen Xs turn or if its true that we will be the first generation that will not do as well as our parents.

              Well, I keep trying and paying my dues too, that's one thing that will never end... there are always more dues to pay.

              • 5 votes
              #4.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:25 PM EST
              21st John

              Boiler06, same here but was burned twice.  I'm Gen X and have two pieces of paper that are worthless in the working world although at the time it was popular to say that they were smart fields to go into (computers and business).  Luckily I served in the Army and was able to get a lot of help from uncle Sam to pay for college but again I guess I am lazy because I earned my college money.

              Matt in Chicago, if I could afford it I would probably go back to school again, take on the debts, but then likely find out shortly later that the market for the positions are only limited to those with years of experience not fresh grads. 

              There is a very vicious cycle being imposed upon young people these days.  They are steered to better themselves through education, take on significant debts at young ages for their educations, and then thrown into the "pit of despair" being the stagnant economy of the United States of America.  There was never this much risk in gaining an education ever in the history of our country.  Stock markets can be gambles, casinos can gamble, when did it become right for a legitimate education to become a gamble?

              • 6 votes
              #4.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:47 PM EST
              Camille3

              I also remember columns, books and media commentary about the Gen X generation's sense of entitlement and the high unemployment when I was in my twenties (I'm Gen X).  We were called "slackers".  It's unfortunate that the generational stereotyping is continuing as our society ages - this is nothing new.

              As far as the Y Generation expecting granite countertops, etc., (news flash!) our entire society is materialistic!  I can remember expecting cable and internet access when I moved from place to place.  Like every young generation just starting out in their lives/careers, they have yet to learn to appreciate the value of luxury items and hard work.  I have no doubt they will as most of middle-class Americans have.

              • 3 votes
              #4.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:49 PM EST
              Meso-575799

              Hey Matt,

              How did you get into patent law? Is it expensive?

              • 1 vote
              #4.6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:53 PM EST
              Meso-575799

              Again,

              Did you get your PhD as well? I'm thinking of doing both but I don't know if it would be worthwhile....

                #4.7 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:03 PM EST
                Bob-726680

                Matt:  How many hours are the "minimum number of required hours" say in a week?

                • 1 vote
                #4.8 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:10 PM EST
                GentooB

                If not for the wonderful baby boomers and gen x - wouldn't gen y have it a little easier?

                If we as Gen Y's haven't held jobs or are lazy - what say you of the ones who created this crapfest of a mess - regardless of that we are not a lazy generation.. granted there are more than a few who DO expect things handed to them as soon as they leave school, they do need a reality check, but for the rest who have and still are busting their ass for a buck in this harsh economic environment, i think we're getting the short end of the stick - we will be stuck in the middle until the next generation comes along and says we're too old to work - right when we hit our prime, and take those jobs we work our entire life for...

                I'm 26 and I am grateful I still have my job - I make a decent wage, in my opinion at least (45K), but of course I wish I was making at least 20K more, but who doesn't?? I can lose my job at any given moment, especially in this industry (fashion) - so I count my blessings.  I've put in considerable time to working, have been working in some manner since I was 13 - been in this industry for 5 years now, and have "paid my dues" I'm still paying, but that doesn't mean my whole generation is cursed... we work just as hard as the rest of you if not harder to fix your mess.  give credit where credit is due... stop hating on the people who you'll need to empty your bed pans in 5 years... since we can't get any other meaningful position...

                • 1 vote
                #4.9 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:44 PM EST
                Jim the Engineer

                Matt in Chicago... I am very interested in your experiences leading into patent law.

                I am an asic/fpga engineer (31) that was "lucky" enough to continue my education (BS conputer engineering, MS electrical engineering) during the Dot bust due to the lack of jobs. In 2001, I just remember most people my age that were not engineers had a hard time understanding why i couldn't find a job. LOL... This time around, the downturn is going to be worse and hit many more people... So for you youngsters, you better start being creative about how you plan to get your foot in the door,  to become retrained/educated, and to keep yourself afloat. I know i "love" paying my undergrad and grad loans, bills, and saving for the future in this time of the declining US standard of living...      

                I have always been interested going into patent law. any advice on how to find law schools and later jobs? what are the major locations for jobs. what area of study have you seen a need for? what size of loans/financial aid are we talking about? what is the work/workday like? And finally... what are the hours/$ like? I am a little scared to take another large loan for school without it having a good return on investment (risk/reward). It is worth looking into doing a joint degree with a MBA program (another interest of mine)?

                • 1 vote
                #4.10 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:47 PM EST
                Reply
                justme-365250

                Oh well. Maybe once the Baby Boomers actually retire, Gen X and Y will have enough experience using their Masters Degrees in the menial positions like McDonalds drive through, so that they may actually be qualified, according to the Boomers, to be an entry level manager. Of course by then they will be in their 40's and 50's. Exactly how long did this "working your way up" and "paying your dues" thing last for the Baby Boomers? Seems most of them got their middle management jobs with their paltry high school diplomas when they were in their 30's.

                So what we (gen X and Y) should learn from this is:

                1- Higher education does not pay- unless of course you are the university president. College is just a way for the Baby Boomers to keep us occupied while they continue in their good paying jobs without competition.

                2- Job qualifications according to the Baby Boomers, who comprise the majority of middle and upper management positions currently, and thus determine hiring are as follows: Have at least 5 years working experience in the position you are seeking (and you can't ever get experience if you don't already have it!) So that leads into point 2: Be a Baby Boomer who already has experience as required. In plain words, anyone under 50 need not apply, ever.

                3- Majority rules, and since the Baby Boomers are the majority in the US, they make the rules. On everything.

                Oh and to the girl in the story who can't even land a job at McDonalds..........Don't tell them you have a Masters Degree! Baby Boomers only hire younger people if they have no fear you will one day take their job. If you pretend to be as stupid as the day is long, and say you got your GED, you are more likely to get hired by a Baby Boomer. This business environment, and the managers in place currently, only reward incompetence and mediocrity. Don't believe me? Take a look at how they are running these companies (into the ground). Do you really think they want to hire someone that is smart enough to point out what a terrible job they are doing?

                • 14 votes
                Reply#5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:03 AM EST
                tyranasaurus steve

                You are demonstrating the EXACT childish behavior that this article is talking about. Kid, you aren't smarter than other people. You aren't better than anyone, and no one and I mean no one owes you anything. So stop thinking that they do. The higher education that you got, you dummy, doesn't necessarily allow you to start higher, but it will allow you to go farther. It was supposed to teach you how to think. THINK, kid. And put down that God Darn iPhone and stop texting for 5 minutes.

                Part of texting is reading the message. So no, you can't just check it. Put it away and turn it off. (This is why no one wants to hire you. We STILL have to talk to you like children because you have all this education and no intelligence at all). You don't have the skins (yet) to really know how things, companies, and this society works. (Wipe that smirk off your face). Shut up and learn something. You WILL attain wisdom with age, and if you don't and there's a good chance your generation won't (as badly as we raised you), then you will have a hard row to hoe. Maybe it'll do you some good.

                PS - Your generation's music sucked.

                 

                • 15 votes
                #5.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:32 AM EST
                J. Hicks

                Sorry JustMe, but you've got it all wrong. Baby Boomers did not jump into management right out of college or highschool. Why do you think they are in their 40's and 50's in management. It's because they had to "climb the corporate ladder". When I was coming along through college, it was a known fact that you had to "pay your dues". This is another way of saying you had to gain work experience by working several years. You had to work your way up, position after position.

                Many folks from my generation (birth year 1963) started out working for minimum wage out of highschool, which at the time was somewhere around $2.30 per hour. Those of us out of college considered ourselves extremely lucky if we started working in the low to mid $20,000 per year range. I bought my first house in 1995 at the age of 32 while earning only $33,000 per year.

                I don't blame the generation "Y" folks for feeling entitled. This is the way you were raised. You only know what your parents teach you. It is true that baby boomers always thought of themselves as superior, so they naturally raised their children with that mentality. I don't personally consider myself a baby boomer, despite my birth year. The true baby boomers were born somewhere between 1946 - 1956.

                I came out of college in the mid 80's when the country was coming out of recession. By 1990, we were on our way back into another recession. I spent years out of college struggling just to survive financially. It wasn't until I got into my 40's that I actually started earning an income where I could hope to not only survive financially, but actually save money as well.

                You must be patient with your life. You must surrender your "entitled" attitude and demonstrate to employers that you are willing to "earn your dues", work hard - really, really hard. It used to be that when you hit your middle aged years, you could start to relax - a little, just a little. Now-a-days, it may just be that you can never truly relax at all. Those of us that grew up watching our grand parents and parents retire at the traditional age of 65 wonder what happened? We're now faced with the realization that traditional retirement, as we knew it, is basically gone in this country. And many people who worked very hard all their lives have watched what they saved for retirement evaporate. There is no more time left to recuperate what they've lost.

                You think it's bad for 20 somethings - try being in your 40's and up. My heart especially goes out to those folks that are around 60 years old, had planned for their retirement years and could see the light at the end of the tunnel, and now only see darkness. How will they survive in the next 20 years? They can only reasonably hope to work another 10 - 15 years, assuming they maintain good health. And why should anyone who is around 67 or older have to continue to struggle to earn a living? When is it their turn to relax a little?

                You sound very spoiled and arrogant - but it's not too late to change your mindset. Think twice before you open your mouth and condemn your elders. There was a time in this country where older folks were respected by the generations that followed them. Your generation acts as if us older folks are just a stumbling block in your quest for success. You are so wrong - and you'll realize this in another 20 years - trust me - I know what I'm talking about - and you, my dear, have no idea what you're talking about.

                • 16 votes
                #5.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:40 AM EST
                Indy TX

                Here's another very important piece of the message that the article kind of glossed over. What matters is what your degree is in. If you got a bachelor's or master's degree in accounting or math or engineering or computer science or some other area that's business-related, that's going to get a lot more attention than degrees in english, sociology, art history, or women's studies. If a company is getting dozens or hundreds of applications for a job, it means they can be real selective, and someone with a degree in a field that's practical for that company, then that's going to be the first cut.

                But maybe these Baby Boomer parents who are too worried about everyone passing and not hurting anyone's feelings and supporting their children making their own decisions and being their friend (instead of giving them good advice) forgot to share some of these hard facts.

                In other words, it doesn't matter if you're the highest-educated generation if your degree isn't something that the workplace values.

                • 5 votes
                #5.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:43 AM EST
                Matt in Chicago

                Higher education does not necessarily translate into marketable skills.  Just because someone has a master's in communications, anthropology, women's studies... doesn't mean there is a job that needs this skill.

                You may be a precious snowflake, but if you've invested your time in an unmarketable field... you're going to be a unemployed precious snowflake!

                • 6 votes
                #5.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:06 PM EST
                SpeakingPlainly

                While I can agree that JustMe might have been a little harsh with the generalization about the Baby Boomers qualifications for getting their jobs, it is true that the requirements for jobs now a days seem ridiculous.

                Unlike the Baby Boomers this generation is REQUIRED to have a degree in order to get a menial job that would just barely pay for all of our expenses.

                We leave school horribly in debt expecting to get a job and nobody is interested in hiring a kid who's wet behind the ears and only has his BA.

                So we go back to school for two years and get our masters. Tack on some more debt that will last us well into our 30's and now we hope that SOMEBODY will appreciate that enough to give us a job just to survive. No such luck. We search for jobs and everyone throws their hands up and says, "You gotta have atleast 5 years experience."

                There needs to be compromise. Baby Boomers have to stop denying applications because they think we should have to "pay dues" and work for five years before we get the "good" jobs. Most of our "dues" should be the hell we go through and debt we incur trying to get some piece of paper that says, "I've read more books and written more papers than most people."  Generation X-Y needs to stop thinking jobs should fall into our laps and realize that we do have to compete in the market for a decent job. COMPROMISE so that we both both can have good futures.

                It's easy to call Generation X "rude" and "unrespectful to their elders" when you either have a job or at least have some life assest to fall back on. Currently my debt outweighs my assest because I am in college. Excuse our rudeness, were just a little bit panicky that we'll never be able to pay off this debt, buy a house, raise a family, and enjoy the good years of our lives like you all were able to.

                • 4 votes
                #5.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:12 PM EST
                Lynn-410457

                Oh here she is again, naysaying, and making excuses.  About 4 days ago, she called me everything but a caucasian woman for expressing opinions which is what I thought this board was for.  It was all over when I stated that I was a boomer, and would not apologize for it.  She even had the audacity to say that GenX and GenY would not take care of those in a nursing home, if those of us that are boomers were placed there.  She has parental issues, so do not listen to her, as she is bitter and sour on life.  Me and my husband worked for everything we have.  He is a Vietnam vet and we both put ourselves through college, had 3 sons, raised and educated them and now have 3 Grandaughters.  We do not live lavishly, and if we did, we wouldn't apologize for it because we worked for it.  I do feel for those, that cannot find jobs, but feel that it is more a lack of jobs, than how prepared they are.  And we were in our 40's and 50's before we rose in rank also.  It is what you do, with what you have that matters.  And also what your education prepares you to do. It has to be in a field that needs those skills.  Watch out for what she will say, as she is a work of art!

                '

                • 1 vote
                #5.6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:22 PM EST
                21st John

                I don't think Gen X or Y is complaining about the work they have to do to succeed, they are complaining about the lack of work available and the amount of debt they have to face once in the working world due to high education costs and lack of opportunity.  (There are now 20 million illegal immigrants to compete with for lower paying jobs due to the negligence of the powers at hand)  Honestly, which generation has the majority of power in this country and what kind of job are they doing?  Just because baby boomers have been grinding it out since the 60's doesn't mean your generation did it right by any means.  Things are now being equated to the Great Depression under your watch.  Of course this doesn't apply to every baby boomer but it is relevant to many especially those that have abused power in both the public and private sectors.  Young people don't want handouts and really don't need the baby boomer negativity and mentality which has done little if anything to improve this country as a whole.  Baby boomers don't understand the situation which is obvious and label younger generations as complainers.  My point baby boomers, if you're going to have command and control, do it right for America and not just for yourselves.  If not, step aside because there are two willing generations in America ready to work to improve things for whatever the pay is.  Face it, the baby boomer generation is going to go down in history as the generation of hippies, drugs, free sex, anti-establishment, anti-traditionalism, and destruction of American values trying to quench their insatiable greed.  Again, this doesn't actually portray every baby boomer it is just a portrayal of the generation as a whole when looking back at its accomplishments.  It will be the generation that corrupted and changed America for the worst for personal benefit leaving the problems for future generations. 

                • 5 votes
                #5.7 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:14 PM EST
                fedupwithliberals

                It's easy to call Generation X "rude" and "unrespectful to their elders" when you either have a job or at least have some life assest to fall back on. Currently my debt outweighs my assest because I am in college. Excuse our rudeness, were just a little bit panicky that we'll never be able to pay off this debt, buy a house, raise a family, and enjoy the good years of our lives like you all were able to.

                I guess I fall somewhere in the middle of the age scope here (I'm 40 - technically too old to be Gen X, too young to be a Boomer), but do you really think those of us who are a little older didn't go through the same struggle?

                I started working at 16  and worked my way up from minimum wage to my current salary, which is not huge, but affords me a decent lifestyle. In the meantime, I put myself through community college and am working on my B.A. (albeit very slowly, as I'm paying as I go).

                I didn't "get" to buy a house until my early 30's, I'm still working, and I don't know when I'll be able to retire to enjoy those "good years" you think anyone older than you is able to.

                As for the whole "education vs. experience" issue? Yes, I might be making more money if I already had my degree, but I landed my current job because of my 20 years of business experience, earned the hard way. Why? Because my boss wanted someone who was mature and able to handle the stresses of the job, and had the track record to prove it. A 22 year old right out of college, with no real life experience doesn't necessarily have the life skills needed for higher level jobs, which is why there are such things as "entry level" jobs.

                • 3 votes
                #5.8 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:44 PM EST
                SpeakingPlainly

                fedup,

                Your partially proving my point. You bought a house in your early 30's that's a pipe dream for a lot of this generation. By the time the economy mends up, credit unfreezes, we pay off our school loans we'll easily be in our 40's.

                This are supposed to get better for each generation. Not this archaic idea that "we did it, so should you." I wan't my kids to have a better house, better job, and more assests at a much earlier age than I do. That's how wealth is made.

                And do you see the drastic difference you pointed out about when you were growing up and how were growing up? You have, from what I read, a decent job and you didn't need a degree. I would LOVE to say, "screw college" and jump into the work force like you did but NOBODY is going to give me a job, even at minimum. I have to go through the university system.

                • 1 vote
                #5.9 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:40 PM EST
                speeder

                I have an MBA, and I was born in 1964.  Never been hired at my level, and I am HIGHLY intelligent with a great sense of humor and actually I am a "Fun and fair boss, tough, but caring" as evaluated by past employees in um well retail.  Despite a 3.9 out of 4.0 GPA and 23 years in the workplace.  My problem, I live where they only hire Ivy leaguers.

                  #5.10 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:48 PM EST
                  Greg-281912

                  I am sure that there are just as many hardworking GenYers than in any other age group.

                  I have nieces who have far far nicer "things" than I have and ever will have, and they are just finishing college.  They have nicer cars, nicer houses, nicer everything.  They are used to having it all, and I'm pretty sure they will work very hard to "keep it all."

                  I've been in the working world for 30 years, and I know many GenYers that have achieved "fortunes" in only a few years, compared to me.

                  This article is anecdotal, I believe.

                  • 1 vote
                  #5.11 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:55 PM EST
                  BZe1

                  Why do you believe that you should get a job as a manager first time out?  Just because you have a degree i.e. book knowledge about the subject?

                  What about working your way up to the position of manager?

                  All a degree indicate is that you have the capacity to learn imo. The real work begins in the entry level position. There you start to learn the things that you did not and could not learn in college.

                  It is interesting to note that those who worked etc in their early years, whether in high school on while attending school, appear to have a more realistic view to life, unlike many who were given everything,  including their parents going into debt to pay for their college years, and whose parents are now forced to forgo retirement because they are carrying so much debt themselves, as their home values and retirement investments tank.

                  No one is saying that the boomers and the Xers are faultless, then neither are the Yers.  Not all Xers or Yers worked their way through school, and in actuality it appears that a portion of their debt is due to wanting thing more than they can/could actually afford at this point in their lives, as quite a few want to run before they can walk. 

                  Some of the boomers are to be blamed for indulging their children and even now have not learned to say no. There are Xers who are doing the same to their children and so on. 

                  For those who state/believe that the boomers should get out of the way so they can get their jobs, well you have shown your hand and the way you are thinking.   Hopefully you will learn or practice to keep your thoughts to yourself on that subject or no doubt you will be one of the first to get a pink slip during layoff time, or for that matter will not be the first hired.

                  Hope the boomers have not downsized their homes already, or that your room is not leased out to someone else. LOL

                  At some point everyone will have to take responsibility for their actions.  Welcome to life as many have already known it. lol

                    #5.12 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:10 AM EST
                    Accipiter

                    Speaking Plainly:

                    We leave school horribly in debt expecting to get a job and nobody is interested in hiring a kid who's wet behind the ears and only has his BA.

                    So we go back to school for two years and get our masters. Tack on some more debt that will last us well into our 30's and now we hope that SOMEBODY will appreciate that enough to give us a job just to survive. No such luck. We search for jobs and everyone throws their hands up and says, "You gotta have atleast 5 years experience."

                    EXACTLY.  Things have changed since the previous generations.  My father, for example, did not go to college.  He has only a high school diploma and got a good job, which he still has today (he is 61).  This is because back when he graduated college, you could enter an industry without any training, and they would train you for the job.  He works in the aerospace industry, and they taught him everything he needed to know.

                    Now, in his company, you must have a college degree to even work as a secretary!  Companies are not willing to teach their trades anymore, since employees are falling over themselves to get college degrees and thus pay for their own training.  They can take their pick and not have to spend the time and money to teach them the trade.

                    On top of that, these places want, as you said, a few years of experience.  How are any college graduates supposed to get a start?  How are they supposed to get any job when every place wants only people who have had experience?  And in order to get experience, you have to have a college education?  How in the world does that work?

                    As for the cost of college, my uncle (also in his 60s) paid for college each year with the money he made in a single summer.  This simply is not possible anymore, unless your summer job pays you a total of anywhere from $9,000 to $30,000 for three to four months of work.  "Scholarships" are mostly a joke.  I did over 900 hours of community service throughout middle school and high school, had a good G.P.A., good SAT scores, graduated with honors, and got crumbs for scholarship money.

                    I've said this before and I've said it again - I seriously think the next 'crisis' after the mortgage crisis is going to be the student loan crisis.  Everyone borrowed too much money for schooling that cost too much, and there aren't enough jobs out there to supply them all with an income that will allow them to pay $1,000 a month in loan payments, plus pay rent, groceries, and transportation.

                      #5.13 - Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:01 PM EST
                      Accipiter

                      Sorry, there was a typo in my previous post.  Where it says "... back when he graduated college..." it should read, "back when he graduated high school..."  Sorry, I don't know why I typed that!

                        #5.14 - Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:11 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Ken-806604

                        Justme...you typically spoiled little brat, blaming everybody else for your problems.  You're finally getting  a dose of reality.  You've been given everything you want, exactly when you want it, and have never had to pay or work to get it.  Get in line, twerp.  You're about to get a lesson in life.  Finally.  And while you're at it, next time you walk out  a door and someone's behind you, hold the thing open rather than slapping it in that person's face.  You're not God's gift to the world, despite what you've been allowed to believe you entire misbegotten life.

                        • 13 votes
                        Reply#6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:14 AM EST
                        New Yorker 2000Deleted
                        Ginny-530816

                        Amen Ken!  I worked as a Manager in a sales organization and it never ceased to amaze me when a 20-something can on board as a sales representative, knew nothing about sales, worked for 6 months and expected to make 100K a year!!!  The sense of entitlement was astounding.

                        • 6 votes
                        #6.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:24 AM EST
                        Young gunna

                        The old people on here are bitter and angry over young peoples swag and hustle. You all want to label young people as lazy and under appreciative. I could write pages about all of your stupid comments, but all I'm gonna say is YOU'RE WRONG about us as a whole and we are the ones who are going to turn this country around and fix your mistakes. Ken-806604 you are a bitter bitter old man, stop being jealous of some spoiled kids you seen on tv and now label our whole generation as.

                        • 2 votes
                        #6.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:07 PM EST
                        WendyP

                        Great post Ken.  I'm a 44 year old programmer who works a second job at a convenient store.  I'd say about 90% of the kids that come in - fall into that status that their #%it don't stink and entitled without working for it.  Their attitudes are unbelieveable and they are in for quite a shock when they realize that they are getting no where with their attitudes and expectations.  My coworkers at the convenient store - 18 - 20 year olds and I can't tell you how many times I've gone into work and earned my paycheck as well as theirs because they were too busy texting on their cell phones or just plain doing nothing - but expect a pay raise for that nothing.  I work with those who prove that what Ken is saying is completely true.  BTW - our store is right on a snowmobile and 4-wheeler trails.  These kids that come in to get their gas for those toys - guess who bought those toys.  Work ethics - I'm doing their work for them because they don't and won't.  Respect - they don't know the meaning of the word because they are entitled.

                        • 2 votes
                        #6.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:42 PM EST
                        Andrea M.

                        Ken, you sound like a horribly bitter person. The world does not revolve around you either, and age does not necessarily make you smarter or wiser. Justme is right on. Unfortunately, the truth hurts.

                        • 1 vote
                        #6.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:59 PM EST
                        Reply
                        DrMan

                        I have to wonder about some of these degrees people are getting -  forensic psychology, sociology? What kinds of jobs are these people going to get? People need to start looking at what the job market requires if you want a job right out of school. If you are willing to wait for a job with your very specialized degree, great; if not, don't complain when people are not beating a path to your door with your advanced English degree.

                        • 6 votes
                        Reply#7 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:06 AM EST
                        Capt. Code

                        I have to agree.  Those degrees sound like the only thing you could do with them is go back for a Ph.D. and teach. 

                        I'm 26 and am having no problem with finding jobs.  In fact, I'm turning down opportunities.  Being a computer geek is paying off (Microsoft technology software developer).  I decided to shortcut the paying dues part by taking part-time jobs in my field while in school.  I've been out of school for 3.5 years and my salary has increased almost 150% in that time.

                        While I have been with 4 different companies in that time, it's far more common in my field.  One of the positions was a short-term contract and I've only been in my current position for a little more than a month.

                        My parents did pay for my B.S. degree, but I had to work to pay my other bills.  My last 2 years of school, I was working at least 40 hours per week while taking a full class schedule.

                        While I admit that I would prefer to work my 40 now and be done with it, I will put in OT if needed.  I think much of the reason the BB's are so ideal is because of people like my mother.  She regularly works 60+ each week.  She could delegate, but decides to keep so much on her own plate.  These kind of employees are coveted by employers because they can do more work at the same rate.  It allows them to get 1.5 employees from one.

                        These type of BB's believe too much in the "priveledge" of a job.  At some point you have to expect something back.  I won't let a company screw me just so I can keep a job.  That's why I left the company before my short-term contract job.  They weren't willing to pay me even close to market value for my abilities so I left (to a 41% raise).  A salary is a flat rate for a regular work week.  If you are constantly working more than that (I'll even be more liberal and say up to 45/week is normal), then the company is bending you over the boardroom table.

                        We'll use my mother as an example.  Assume she makes 100k (I'm not sure if that's accurate or not).  Assuming 40/week, that's ~$48/hr.  45/week = ~$ We'll say that she's working right at 60/week.  That's ~$32/hr.  That means that her salary, for a person who works a normal schedule would be $66,560-$74,880.* 

                        Those numbers are sad for a senior-level Project Manager.  She may not have a degree, but with all the years in IT that she has, that's an unacceptable salary "value."

                        *Calculations: 40/week = 2080/year, 45/week = 2340/year, 60/week = 3120/year.  Salary range is calculated by taking her 60/week hourly * 2080 (for low end) or * 2340 (for high end).

                        • 1 vote
                        #7.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:09 AM EST
                        J. Hicks

                        Excuse me Captain Code - but what you've described about your mother is called "life" and "reality". I have to wonder if she shares your sentiments? Only someone who is a developer can hope to earn what you are earning at your age. It's sad, because it's giving you a false sense of security. Just wait until the next "hot" programming language comes along. If you don't know it - and chances are you'll be so busy developing the current "hot" trend, you'll wake up someday and discover that someone 10 years younger than you is making more money than you - you'll be in for a rude awakening. You think JAVA will be the "it" language forever - don't bank on it.

                        It happens - you don't believe me now because you're young, naive and arrogant - but it happens, particularly in the IS field. There was a time in this country, right before Y2K, that COBOL programmers had the "hot" language. Look where they are now. That was followed by "Visual Basic" and C++. Do you think someone with Visual Basic could earn what you're earning now?

                        I'm guessing you code in JAVA, which is the "hot" language right now. Times always change, that's the one thing guaranteed in this life. You better work damn hard and save money like crazy, because all the dough you're making now might very well dry up in another 5 - 10 years, if not less. And if you're not ready, some young college graduate whose been studying the "hot" new language will come out there and put you to shame. Just wait and see . . . . just wait and see. . . . . .

                        • 7 votes
                        #7.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:32 AM EST
                        Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                        Capt. Code's real success is not based on what he is doing now, but instead by what he is doing to prepare for that day (as it will come...speaking as a 15 yr IT "veteran").

                        We all go through hot spots and dry spots and it was rather funny reading the posting as it reminded me of a younger, more naive me...not fully knowing the ways of the world, the concepts of responsibility, etc.  Example:  he's billing contract rates and that's awesome, but he's also job hopping to ensure hottest jobs and highest rates...as did I "in the day".

                        Then came marriage and family and the responsibility therein.  You can't be "Capt. Cocky" when you are responsible for tuition of your own to take care of; when you are planning for your children's future, etc.  It's easy to talk big now because the world is "all about you", but imagine if (as you said your folks paid for your degree) if they contract hoped and suddenly went through a recession...college would be over for you if you (or they) didn't plan ahead.  

                        When the person that birthed you spent her 60 hours/week "bending over" as you put it for the people in the boardroom, did you ever think that she was doing what she had to do so you wouldn't have to do 80 hours/week to get your college...or so you wouldn't have to pay off student loans for the next 15 years - that she did whatever she had to do to make YOUR life easier.  Your success is 110% because of her sacrifice, and you mock it...sad.

                        So I'd say let's ease up on programmer boy...as he grows and matures he'll look back to his posting today and realize how far he's grown since "those days".

                        Oh, and as for me...in 15 my years as an IT Professional I worked through Cobol, PowerBuilder, VB, Delphi, PHP, ASP, EDI, MQ Series, .Net, Sybase, SQL Server and Oracle.  Personally working with 3 different clients right now with a few of the various technologies previously mentioned...IT is still hot, but it's also been dry before.

                        The learning cycle in IT never ever ends...college was the easy part...

                        • 6 votes
                        #7.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:51 AM EST
                        Capt. Code

                        @J. Hicks,

                        Obviously you didn't read my whole post as I said "Microsoft technology software developer."  I'm teaching myself Java on the side (mainly to play with my Android phone, but it would be nice to have on the resume).

                        The next "hot" language doesn't affect the world as quickly as it's made out to be.  Yes, I do expect that a VB person, well, at least VB.Net person, could earn what I am as I have had that option for my 3.5 years.  I choose C# just to enhance my C# skills.

                        I try to keep current with technology.  The .Net Framework is the base technology of plenty of work around St. Louis.  In addition, I'm planning on going back for a Master's degree (either MBA or Management).  I earned certifications (MS Certified Solution Developer) to increase my appeal to employers.

                        Things may be different in other cities, but companies in STL pay very nice premiums for emerging tech and specialty knowledge.  If I was JUST a .Net web dev, I would not be anywhere near where I'm at, but since I'm an experienced SharePoint developer, I can command a premium.  Right now, SharePoint is the "Sun and Sound plus dual heated Leather seats" option in MS tech.  It's the fastest growing server product MS has ever had.  I believe the next tech from them will be their Dynamics product.  Good thing I'm trying to learn more about it and pushing it for adoption with my employer.

                        @Shawn,

                        I'm married with a daughter.  While I am paying for financial mistakes made in college, I'm quite able to save for future expenses.  Her 529 is somehow surviving the economy fairly well.  Contracting isn't always ideal, but it's actually the majority of development work in STL right now.

                        I do appreciate what my parents have done.  In some cases, their workloads couldn't be avoided.  My mother probably could tell her boss today that she would like another headcount to take some of the workload and they would do everything in their power to accomodate her.  She's admitted this.  The problem is she believes in the addage "If you want it done right, do it yourself."  She's also said that this is common of her generation.

                        My parents have helped me in many ways, but I've created many of my own chances.  My choosing to leave opportunities for others is no different than a person starting their own company.  There is a lot of risk involved, but a potential for a high reward.  My ability to sell myself has led to my quick salary increase.

                        Basically, I realize that my current IT knowledge isn't going to be enough to survive.  It's the ability to analyze and adapt to technology and corporate changes that will allow me to thrive.  I'm not cocky so much as confident.  I've been watching the IT world since high school because I've been surrounded by it (other than my mother, 3 of her brothers are also IT specialists).  I saw the effect of Y2K from the POV of my mother.  She played an instrumental role in getting the company she was working for compliant.  I have no plans to be a dev forever.  In fact, I'm shooting for Ph.D. by 40 and hopefully start teaching tech skills either soon or after my Masters at a CC or other higher ed. institution.

                        I realize that I generalized the BB's with the comparison (I should not have...or at least noted otherwise), but to assume that GY'ers are all cocky and feel entitled is just as bad.  I expect to earn what I get, but I also expect to be compensated fairly.

                        I've seen some of the GY'ers that the article and some posters are talking about.  Many didn't even make it through college and I can see why they are having problems in the job market.  I just wanted to bring to light that not all of us are like that.

                        I'm sorry that it came off as bragging.  I went over the top on trying to prove my point.

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:39 AM EST
                        J. Hicks

                        Now that's better Captain Code - Good luck to you now and in the future. Diligence, adaptability, and hard work are the only true ways to survive in this world. We would all like to get what we consider "fair compensation" for our work. Sometimes we have to admit that what we're doing is never going to compensate us the way we feel we deserve. Those of us that can adapt, take risks, and work hard are the ones that make it.

                        But nothing is guaranteed. And no one should expect to come out of college and earn the kind of money that their parents are earning. If they happen to do so, great - but it should never be expected. I cannot believe that anyone out there in their 20's expects to leave college and start working for $70,000 - $100,000 per year! What on earth are they thinking? The average American earns less than $60,000 per year. Try supporting a family on that kind of income. You can't have an iPod and a fancy new car and a 2,500 square foot house making the average income in America if you're supporting a family - just forget it.

                        The real shame today in this country is that the average wage earner can barely keep their head above water financially. And I'll admit, I too put a lot of the blame for the state of our economy on the shoulders of baby boomers - the older ones. They too had a sense of entitlement, and look what happened . . . . .

                        A sense of entitlement will ultimately get you no where in life.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:52 AM EST
                        Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                        10-4 Capt,

                        Understand where your coming from now that you've expounded further.  Did the Y2k thingy myself...was a GREAT time to be a contractor then...80 hour work weeks, etc.

                        Sounds like you're keeping your head on your shoulders (529, got mine covered as well) and as long as you stay ahead of the tech curve (the wildest curve you'll ever get to know...won't be too bad).  Some days I love it, some days I hate it...but when I see what it's provided my family...It'll do.

                        010001110110111101101111011001000010000001101100011101010110001101101011,

                        Shawn

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:12 AM EST
                        Capt. Code

                        @J. Hicks,

                        I re-read my first post before the second and realized that I didn't cover enough.  Anyone who feels entitled to that much fresh out of school obviously spent too much time at the frat parties.

                        I didn't actually have a job in the field when I got out.  It took me about a week to catch on with a bank.  That was a short, but first taste of career worry.  I decided then that it would be the only time.  That's the reason for the continued learning.  I don't want to mess with the fear of not having a job.

                        I attribute any semblance of arrogance on here towards trying to convey enough info over the web (and in proper context) and staying up too long last night watching Blues hockey. :p

                        I know I'm lucky given where I'm at.  I know, for my age, I'm on the other extreme from the article's subjects.

                        We've owned a home since Apr06.  We had to buy far out of the county limits to find something that was affordable and decent.  1300 3/2 split spec-home.  Formica, linoleum, and the cheapest carpet possible.  We knew our first home wasn't going to measure up to what our parents have.

                        Speaking of parents...my wife and I have said numerous times how impressed we are with our parents because they don't have anything more than their HS diplomas.  Her dad is a union employee who raised a family of 6 on very little.  It took a relocation to make life more comfortable for him financially.  My father has owned his own company for years.  It took a long time for him to get comfortable.  I've already discussed mom.  I see my education (past and future) as a POSSIBLE way to shortcut some of the extra work they had to do to get where they are.  It's not assured, but there is a decent chance.

                        For any GY'ers that do feel that the expectations that JH notes should be there...HA!

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.7 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:27 AM EST
                        charleyfarley

                        Shawn-299392 I have to agree with you. I have been in IT as a web programmer for 10 years and it def has its ups and downs and college was the easy part. you are so right about that. Capt Code has a bit to learn. You almost have to forgive him in advance. My mom and dad were cleaners all their life and sacrificed so much so I would have a better life. If I took care of my mom (dad passed) for the rest of my life it wouldnt be enough. Time will teach him and he probably will understand how he sounds. IT is very fun and rewarding as a career but it exists in the macro economy and is affected by it like every other industry. Study long, stay humble and appreciate what you have.

                        • 4 votes
                        #7.8 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:42 AM EST
                        Reply
                        Robin-662559

                        J. Hicks, I couldn't have said it better.  I received my undergrad in 1986 and guess what, I worked as a line cook and waitress because the job prospects for new graduates were just as grim as they are now.  I even had 6 years of banking experience under my belt but at the time, no one was hiring.  In 1991 , my husband (an Ivy League grad) and I made a combined salary of $36,000 working full time!  To the Gen Y'ers willing to put in the hours to succeed, don't dispair.  Things will get better.  They key is to check the cocky attitude and get out there and show us Boomers what you're made of!

                        • 4 votes
                        Reply#8 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:01 AM EST
                        J. Hicks

                        Oh, and one more thing Captain Code - employers hate your type of attitude, so you better keep it to yourself in the workplace. Don't think for one minute that they don't know what you're made of. Us older folks are well aware of your arrogant attitude, and if not for the fact that you happen to possess a very valuable skill, they would not think twice about denying you a job. It is a known fact that folks like you exist out there and it's folks like you that give the 20 somethings a bad reputation. You're not doing your generation any favors with your arrogant attitude. You are only perpetuating the "entitled" attitude that's associated with 20 somethings.

                        • 7 votes
                        Reply#9 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:38 AM EST
                        bb-818808

                         I am a member of generation Y and I can admit this article holds a lot of truth. When I was getting ready to graduate from college, my professors told us that we should expect high salaries, be put in prime positions at large companies; basically they set our expectations very high. I was very lucky to be one of the few to get a job right out of college working for a national home builder and my salary was only $42,000, much lower than the $75,000 I was lead to believe that I would get. I worked for two years at a horrible job where I was brought back to reality. I was treated terribly by co-workers, verbally abused by the homeowners that I was supposed to provide a service to and found that real life was not like "The Hills" where you live in a mansion, have a Mercedes and all designer clothes. I was lucky enough to get a job at another company where I am making a lot more, but realize that it does not come with out hard work. I see college new hires who are from my generation, but have not learned any lessons. They feel very entitled, are upset when they are not making $100,000 their first year out of college and leave the company after 1 year when they are not made a manager. Expectations need to be set correctly, typical salaries need to be discussed and attitudes need to be adjusted.

                        • 7 votes
                        Reply#10 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:40 AM EST
                        Leah-484759

                        And that's why you are going to make it and do well.

                        Don't worry about the ones who can't adjust to the real world.  That's their problem.  And also, don't feel too betrayed.  We boomers went through much the same thing.  For example, I took nurse's training, and let me tell you, when I took my first job, the real environment was a shocker.  It had no correlation to what I'd been led to believe by the textbooks and the instructors.

                        College just isn't the real world -- not even close.

                        • 1 vote
                        #10.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:19 AM EST
                        Reply
                        krock-737246

                        I wonder why the gen y'ers are having a hard time getting jobs?  The older generation / boomers says it is because they are lazy.  The same boomers that have driven this country into the ground so my blame will go to them.  As hard as I look i dont find a 20 something CEO making 80 million a year in the banking industry.  I have never seen a 20 something corupt congressman.  Sorry boomers,  you have screwed America up and the gen y'ers will likely be the ones to fix it.

                        Gen X

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#11 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:57 AM EST
                        katzgar-420703

                        Your generations debt load speaks ill of your decision making skills so dont count on it.

                        • 2 votes
                        #11.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:29 AM EST
                        krock-737246

                        I have a lot of Friends that live outside of their means for sure.  One friend has a $1900/month mortgage on a 5 bedroom house when he only needs 3 bedrooms.  I am exact opposite.  I live underneath my means because I know what its like to make $10/hour and scrape to pay the rent.  Every generation has their f**k ups.

                        • 2 votes
                        #11.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:45 AM EST
                        Lynn-410457

                        I hope and pray that you can fix it!  But the majority of boomers, had nothing to do with the messing up of this country.  The majority of us, went to work everyday, worked hard, had no hand outs and wanted none.  Many of us, have helped our children, and helped our parents.  We are also known as the sandwich generation.  As far as laziness, they are in every generation.  It is up to each individual to make their own way, and not blame anyone for his or her screw ups.  I've worked with plenty of people over the years, that spent and indebted themselves to banks and companies, that they had no way of paying.  They were boomers, GenX and GenY now.  It is up to the individual.  What I hate for younger people, is because of all this, your standard of living will not be what my husband and I were able to have.  My sons and Grandaughters are in that, and as I've told them, I am sorry for that.  We've done all we could and the biggest thing that we've done right, is to fix it so we can reman independent of them as they will have their hands full with their own needs. 

                          #11.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:30 PM EST
                          Greg-281912

                          Krock, yep, I know what it's like to make minimum wage and I learned the value of a dollar, and now I live below my means.

                          However, I do think that in every generation, there are hardworkers and people who don't work as hard.

                            #11.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:58 PM EST
                            Reply
                            Leah-484759

                            So here's the difference between someone like Lindsey, who can't get a call back from McDonald's management program and someone of my generation (50+):

                            If I wanted that job, I'd have gone to work at McDonald's in any capacity they would have me and prove to them that I'm someone they want to put on the fast-track for management.

                            The kids have been misinformed.  They believe their degrees entitle them, but in fact, degrees only keep doors from being closed in certain fields -- they don't open doors.  In tough times especially, you still gotta hustle.

                            They also believe many jobs are beneath them.  She "can't even get a call-back from McDonald's..."  McDonald's probably isn't looking for people who think of it like that.

                            • 4 votes
                            Reply#12 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:12 AM EST
                            JollyRogers

                            I agree, but I don't put all the blame on these young people. I had the same preception when I graduated from college over 30 years ago. I don't believe our institutions of higher learning are preparing grads for the reality of what they'll face in the real world. But then again, do university instructors, administrators, and placement officials know enough about the real world themselves?

                            • 6 votes
                            #12.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:57 AM EST
                            Capt. Code

                            @JollyRogers,

                            I have to agree.  Some teachers haven't been in "real world" situations for years.  That was one of my issues with my CS teachers.  Some haven't been involved with a real application build since the 70's.

                            You know it's a bad sign when the teacher in the ASP.NET class you're taking is asking YOU questions about it.

                            That said...if students are realizing that before graduation, then it's their fault.

                              #12.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:33 AM EST
                              Curtis Mathes

                              I hate to say it but, she wouldn't be able to function in todays McDonalds workplace.  I bet she doesn't have a grasp of the Spanish language.  I quit going to the McDonalds here in the D.C. area because I can't understand the workers at the counter or the window.  I'm not trying to change the topic, but the starting lower level jobs that we took as kids aren't there for English speakers anymore.

                              • 4 votes
                              #12.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:36 AM EST
                              varmintvsf

                                There is truth to the assumption that the universities and colleges do not prepare these kids for the real world.  I work for a engineering and consulting firm as an structural steel inspector.  I do not have a degree, but do have 15 years experience in the steel construction industry.  Through lots of sweat and blood, I have gained enough experience to basically get a job, even in this economy, just about any place I want.  We currently have two engineering graduates working for us that graduated from a very good university, and their education has not prepared them for the field.  One of those kids told me that in order to graduate he was forced to take more classes that did not deal with engineering than ones that did.  When they were hired I thought that it would be a good experience for me to learn something from them.  I can watch their eyes glaze over and become completely dumbfounded over the most simple things and it blows my mind.  Granted, they do want to learn, and will in my opinion do just fine.  But, if it was me that paid for an education and was forced to take classes that did not apply to my field, I would explode.  We are far behind the rest of the world in this area and it will stay this way if school don't start offering some practical experience instead of only analytical experience.

                                It is also true of some of these kids, not all, that do think that just because they have a degree that they should be doing the same work as someone that has 20+ years experience.  It is also a fact that some are in fact very lazy and are too wrapped up in sending text messages and talking on the phone that learning to do a job. 

                                If you spend four to five years of your life and 50,000+ dollars to get a degree in sociology or some other so called "liberal arts" area.  You deserve to starve.  

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:06 PM EST
                              Carolinas-721515

                              Leah, have you tried to apply for that McDonald's job?  I am under thirty and have had similar experiences.  Many companies today require applicants to take computer tests and/or submit educational information before you can get your foot in the door.  The fact that I graduated from an "elite" university says nothing about whether I feel entitled.  I can recall a time in 2005-6 I applied for jobs at McDonalds, Wendy's, CVS, RIteAid, Walmart, Target, Blockbuster, and numerous other businesses.  Just because I have a degree does not mean I refused to start at the bottom.  I was applying for a job ANYWHERE!  Because of the computers and my educational background none of the companies would hire me.  When dealing with computer applications, I was assured corporate binded the manager's hands and there was nothing they could do.  At that point I was someone with work experience (youth athletic instruction, grocery store cashier, office assistant, university tutor, Research Intern for the National Science Foundation) but no one would hire me.  Not fluent in Spanish, I was mildly conversational at that point.  My degree and graduate school experience handicapped me.  This experience is not isolated, I know many individuals who have similar experiences.  Leah, you seem to be under the impression one can just walk into McDonald's and get a job, or "prove" you are a hard worker. That is simply untrue, and feeds into the 'ole' Horatio Algiers myth in America.  If you work hard enough...  If you sacrifice enough...  Life is not always fair, and because someone has a degree or degrees does not mean they are unwilling to work hard. 

                              Also, I would be remiss if I continued to allow educational loans to be kept out of the conversation.  Young college students are graduating, on a whole, with mountains of debt that no previous generation experienced.  Individuals born between 1978-88 seem to have been hit the hardest, since universities are beginning to introduce more grants and the government may work on making loans better.  However, for college graduates in their mid-late twenties, some jobs will not allow for them to pay their loans.  COllege expectation was enhanced by the GI bill, something enlisted and draftees were able to benefit from.  COmbine the GI Bill with the lower cost of education, and its difficult to compare the generations.  Saddled with thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars of debt, and you too may be more selective about the jobs you can take.  And as previously stated, when you do apply to McDonalds, you may have serious problems getting that job, regardless of experience, work-ethic, or expectation.h

                              Lastly, I would like to address the implication that college is "easy" and what "lazy" people do.  The comments (written by a diverse number of people) are saturated with comments that lead one to assume college is the easy road.  College is a gamble, and the way one navigates themself thru their degree varies and alters their marketability and experiences.  But to imply Generation Yers who go to college and don't work or are in Greek institutions re lazy is inaccurate.  I have friends and family who chose college and those that did not, and I cannot say one group is lazier than the other.  In fact, many of my college friends (though they may not have the work experience) are more efficient than my friends who bypassed college (this is a personal observation that is in no way transferable to teh greater society).  If anything, we may have too many people attending college, but I will not say or imply college attendees are lazy or feel owed anything.  If all college students attempted to enter the work force, do you think they would quickly find jobs?

                              Leah, I summarize...  As a college graduate with multiple masters, I am not entitled to a job.  However, my degrees work against my work experience.  Proving you deserve the job, is not as easy as showing up and saying, I really need this job, look at what I can do.  The system is just much more complicated (without raising the question, do managers want to hire people with more education than them?).  College graduates have more debt when entering the work force, more competition globally, fewer jobs and fewer management positions available (many are already occupied by boomers).  Its a tough situation that has little to do with entitlement.

                              • 1 vote
                              #12.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:06 PM EST
                              graduated 2007

                              I spent four years of my life and well over $50,000 to get a degree in anthropology (cultural anthropology, similar to sociology).

                              I had to move to a different state but I got a 40k job within a month of graduation. Don't judge so harshly. :-) I'm really grateful for the position, but I've also had a job since I was 14 and was willing to work outside my field at first. My job after graduation was as an admin and finance assistant, a year later I found a job "in my field" (at $22/hr). 

                              The beauty of a degree in social science (a "liberal arts degree") is that it can be leveraged into a variety of fields, I'm currently working in market research, a viable field even in this economic climate. My friend with a sociology degree is also in marketing. These aren't just fluff, they are extremely valuable for businesses and increasingly, that is being recognized. Just because these fields aren't obvious in their links to a career, doesn't mean I wasted my time-it just means I need to work harder to convince folks that I have worthwhile skills. 

                              I'm grateful to be earning over $20 an hour but combined with my husband's salary that's still barely enough to cover a one bedroom apartment and basic expenses in California. I landed a job with a good salary, but I had to move across the country and leave my family and friends at home in order to keep it. I'm working erratic hours and am expected to work off hours at home on my computer with no "overtime." I'm happy and praying I keep this job, but I'm also proud to have it and have no doubt that my degree made this possible. So I get to live in a small but safe one bedroom apartment, pay my car insurance, student loans and utility bills and maybe take a weekend drive to the city a few times a year, my college education paid off for me. I have stability, that's all my friends and I want, and I believe college was the best way for me to get there. 

                                #12.6 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:12 PM EST
                                Reply
                                krock-737246

                                Who has a bigger sense of entitlement than union workers???  They are of all generations.

                                • 3 votes
                                Reply#13 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:18 AM EST
                                Leah-484759

                                Union workers have to meet criteria in most cases.  They've paid their dues in more ways than one.  Furthermore, unions -- while sometimes corrupted -- have played a large part in enforcing livable wages for workers -- something our Congress is unwilling to do, since all their buddies are CEOs.

                                • 3 votes
                                #13.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:23 AM EST
                                krock-737246

                                I know about dues, i was in Local 88 for 5 years.   I agree with your point regarding livable wages, but that time has passed and those laws are set in place.   Stagehands:  one guy takes the folding chair off the truck and sets it on the ground,  another guy takes the chair to the location it will be set up,  another guy sets up the chair, and so on.......  Thats why we charge vendors so much to be part of the convention or what have you. 

                                • 2 votes
                                #13.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:30 AM EST
                                Cherylann

                                I wouldn't say the time for unions passed... it was only through the union that my husband (with over 20 years experience) was actually able to get a decent wage!  As far as a sense of entitlement- some are like that, some aren't.  The unions here usually protect the construction jobs from the illegal workers who are willing to do it cheap.

                                • 2 votes
                                #13.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:24 PM EST
                                Reply
                                Millennial Perspective

                                I would like to make a point of clarification and add a bit of perspective to this article.

                                Fact: Average college loan debt is nearly $20,000; average graduate school loan debt is $46,000. -(Not keeping up with our parents by Nan Mooney)

                                Many members of this generation are so strapped by debt that many cannot afford to take a lower paying job and work their way up the ladder. 

                                Fact: 23% of public college graduates and 38% of private college graduates would have an unmanageable level of deby if they were to live on a teachers starting salary (Ibid).

                                Please don't assume that our actions are because we simply don't want to pay our dues and have everything handed to us.

                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#14 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:20 AM EST
                                Leah-484759

                                I guess I don't understand how you can not afford to take a lower paying job?  Are you better able to pay your debts with no income at all?

                                • 5 votes
                                #14.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:25 AM EST
                                Shawn [a.k.a. "Shadow"]

                                I think this goes back to the idea that certain living conditions are "beneath them"...everyone has become so used to $125 cell phone bills, $150 cable bills, $400 car payments that when they have to pony up (when mom and dad are not longer fronting the "rent bill", they can't handle it - I say do like many of us did...work two jobs and scrape your way through it all.

                                It builds character and teaches you the difference between "Want" and "Need".

                                • 5 votes
                                #14.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:33 AM EST
                                Millennial Perspective

                                I am just presenting some facts to gain additional perspective on this issue.

                                A lower paying job may be helpful for some, but sliding further into debt won't help anyone.  A cost-benefit analysis may prove that it is easier to find a better paying job than to take on more debt.

                                • 1 vote
                                #14.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:03 AM EST
                                sonstone

                                BS, you just can't have it all right away.

                                • 3 votes
                                #14.4 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:32 AM EST
                                Millennial Perspective

                                But think of the culture and environment that this generation grew up in.  The technology boom - people didn't have to pay their dues because they were heads of companies at 23.  This is seen, reinforced, and becomes expected after a while. 

                                Parents of this generation also expect this of their children.  When I was reviewing my job offers, my mother made me feel guilty about taking a job paying less money - because I was worth more.  I do appreciate the sentiment and the tuition she provided me so that I could make that choice - but I am just saying it is not that easy for everyone.

                                This problem is a product of our environment, our parents, and the messages we have been sent our entire life. 

                                BUT - rather than fight about this, I would prefer to see solutions in order to HELP this generation adjust to the workplace.  What are people doing out there to help solve this problem?

                                • 2 votes
                                #14.5 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 AM EST
                                Reply
                                Lol-818868

                                Guess what my friends I am 25, I live in Miami, I have a luxury condo and a BMW in the parking lot. I worked hard to get where I am, nothing has ever been handed to me on a silver platter. I went to school and I got a great job based on my skills. So guess what generation Y deserves the money we prepared ourselves more for the career field because our parents wanted us to and because corporations wanted MBAs on their payroll instead of High School Diplomas. So those of you saying we should settle for Burger King after paying $60,000 in tuition are crazy.

                                • 3 votes
                                Reply#15 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:23 AM EST
                                katzgar-420703

                                I am 58 and see kids promoted past me frequently just because they are young.  I see them perform poorly and end up being let go.  My superiors expect me to serve as a mentor for younger employees that are above me in both salary and position.  My reviews are always above average and my numbers are usually best in my region.  Age  discrimination has been rampant and my former boss told me I would not be promoted because of my age. The generalization (calm down its a generalization) is that kids in their 20s are lazy and do feel entitled to it all right now.  I am loving picturing them in the unemployment line.  Karma? You betcha.

                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#16 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:26 AM EST
                                krock-737246

                                Age  discrimination has been rampant and my former boss told me I would not be promoted because of my age. 

                                That is illegal, you should have filed suit.   You love seeing them in the unemployment line?  Why?  because they didn't turn down a promotion and recommend you?  Who is goign to put into the social security that you will ove off of if all these people are in the unemployment line?

                                  #16.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:33 AM EST
                                  Andrea M.

                                  katzgar, while I understand where you're coming from, I also know that age discrimination works both ways. I have seen both older and younger candidates for jobs get turned down because employers made false assumptions about these people simply based on their age. Older people tend to be discriminated against because employers assume that they will not be complacent and will demand a higher salary as well as more authority, whereas younger people are discriminated against because employers assume that they are not knowledgeable or committed enough. Neither of these assumptions should be made. Everyone is different, and generalizations like these should not be used. Unfortunately, as we see on this board, they're not likely to go away.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #16.2 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:22 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  Robert-510177

                                  I found the story interesting. My question is what does the so called Y generation expect? Half the time you don't show up for work,  and when you do you spend more time in the lunch and bathroom that you do on the Job. The big joke at work is if people are under 40 don't hire them! Is this a joke or true? I don't know but  hope not.

                                    Reply#17 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:41 AM EST
                                    carolyn-452703

                                    Good comments all around.  More thoughtful than a lot of comments on other topics on these blogs. Food for thought for everyone without a lot of irrational anger.

                                      Reply#18 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:54 AM EST
                                      Jason Anthony Gieske

                                      Anger may be irrational, but probably is not illogical.  Research has shown that our gut feelings are typically more accurate than long thought out conclusions. That is because when we think things out (now we're entering the realm of my theory, just so you know) what we are actually doing is translating information from our instinctive language into English, our artificial language. Now, you probably know that in any translating job, information can tend to get lost or distorted. Keep in mind, we are born with an empty knowlege slate and the ability to think--and that thinking is in our instinctive language, until we learn English (or whatever) which is useful for communicating with others, and solidifying concepts. I believe animals think with this same instinctive language, though maybe not to the same extent. They just never go verbal with it. But it's pretty obvious that they think, and in a manner very similar to ours in some ways. They also express emotion.

                                      We do not seem to understand truly what emotion is. It is not some terrible behavioral quirk that needs to be suppressed. In reality, it is simply the more noticeable part of this instinctive language. If you observe your thought process, you will find that a thought begins as a feeling, possibly originating from sensory input of some kind, and is then immediately translated by your brain into an English phrase, so quickly that you won't notice that that is how it happened unless you pay close attention.

                                      So next time you have that nagging feeling, or that hanging sense of gloom, or that just plain weird feeling, or incomprehensible joy, or, to be Biblical about it, the "peace that passes understanding" or "groans that words cannot express," pay attention, and try to translate it. You may be suprised at what you find out.

                                        #18.1 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:00 AM EST
                                        Reply
                                        mholly99

                                        This story completely resonated with me.  I'm 27 with a BA degree and holding tightly onto a job in an industry I don't want to stay in getting paid a mid-$30's salary.  I fully expected to be at least in the $40's by now.  My parents told me the EXACT same thing as Rheine, "go to school, get your education, and it's all downhill from there."  They wouldn't even allow my sisters and I to get jobs until we were 18.  I agree that GenY is unique in that our parents did so much for us.  I'm now working toward an MA so I'll be able to better compete with the more experienced workers.  I have no problem working hard, but boy was I thrown for a loop when I entered the workplace!!!! 

                                        • 1 vote
                                        Reply#19 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:09 AM EST
                                        marie-323022

                                        I wish more were like you mholly, keep up the good work...

                                          #19.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:56 AM EST
                                          J. Hicks

                                          Mholly - That can be said for all college graduates - regardless of when you graduated. But once life has kicked you around, you're humbled - that's called "wisdom". And wisdom only comes with age and living life.

                                          I would go so far as to say that a college education in America is one of America's greatist ripoffs. But the fact remains that having a college degree is something that you carry with you for the rest of your life, regardless of what sort of income you earn. It's an accomplishment that one should take great pride in having earned. Folks that never went to college have no concept of just how difficult it is to earn a college degree - it's a lot of extra work beyond highschool with no guarantee of a return on your investment.

                                          I would say the most important aspect of a college degree is the message it conveys (or at least we all thought it conveyed) to a prospective employer. That message is that a graduate knows how to learn and is committed to hard work.

                                          The best thing that colleges and universities could do today is re-strucure their programs to make them more adaptable to the everyday workforce. College graduates are sent out into the world ill prepared for what awaits them. And how could they know - their very professors live in ivory towers with tenure that provide a job for life, regardless of how they perform in the classroom. It's far more important that professors conduct research and publish papers - they are not held accountable for how they teach in the classroom. I say, get rid of the tenure system, hold them accountable for their classroom work, and judge the overall college and/or university by how many of their graduates succeed in finding work after graduating. I bet we'd see a big change in the classroom if they were held accountable for their performance.

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #19.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:09 PM EST
                                          Reply
                                          Amy-818989

                                          I resent the implication of this story and the comments on this board that all members of the Y generation expect things to be handed to them. I, like many of my friends, worked my way through college and graduate school. I now have a job where a large percentage of my meager paycheck goes to pay off my student loans and I clip coupons so that I can save money on my weekly grocery bills. Stereotyping my generation as lazy and incompetent only serves to increase strife in the workplace. At a time when it has been the "old guard" who has led us to this downward economic recession, I don't understand why some of the fresh ideas of a new generation aren't being examined more carefully. I'm not expecting people to lay out the red carpet as I climb my way up the workforce ladder, but I would hope that my mangers aren't narrow minded enough to judge me on my age instead of my performance. The curmudgeon elders who argue against my generation are the very individuals who wanted the same opportunities 40 years ago that I am asking for today. I am not asking for handouts or to be considered "special," I am simply trying to find my way in a rocky economy and do my part as an adult in our society. Surely you can respect that.

                                          • 5 votes
                                          Reply#20 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:24 AM EST
                                          J. Hicks

                                          Absolutely Amy - but it was no different for us who came before you. We all had to "pay the piper", kiss butt, and deal with being patronized. This is not a new phenom. Those who treat you that way today were treated the same way when they were young. I'm not saying that's it right - it's just the way it is.

                                          And by the way, the age thing goes both ways my dear. I left the workforce for 7 years to raise children. When I returned at age 43, I found that those who had stayed all those years were now ahead of me, and I was working with folks that were 10 years or more younger than me. I was viewed as archaic in their eyes, uncool, left out of conversations, laughed about behind my back, and so on. I struggled to understand their "lingo" and read their e-mails filled with "textisms" that I'd never heard of. You don't know how long it took me to figure out what "lol" meant - and I didn't want them to know that I was clueless.

                                          All generations can alienated themselves from one another, or we can choose to practice mutual respect. I choose to practice the second method, and hope that it is returned in kind.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #20.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:16 PM EST
                                          Capt. Code

                                          @J. Hicks,

                                          That's funny about "textisms."  I was talking to my mom one day last year and she said something to the effect of:

                                          "Oh, while I have you, I need to ask a young person question.  What does L-O-L mean?"

                                          The only reason I know this...language...is because of friends who use it.  I can't stand to type them.  Welcome to the language of tech-bonics.  Complete and utter fail on the part of GY'ers. :P

                                          I have no problem with emoticons, though.

                                          Oh, want a good tech-bonics word to use?  I find it usually stops people from using them more than occasionally.

                                          lqtmsantdmc: laughing quietly to myself so as not to disturb my coworkers.

                                            #20.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            WARWGN

                                            What do they expect?  They voted for change!  And now BO is going to give it to them.

                                            • 2 votes
                                            Reply#21 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:30 AM EST
                                            You're kidding, right Boomers?

                                            Listening to Baby Boomers dish out career advice (or life advice of any kind) makes me laugh.  That's like getting investment advice from Bernie Madoff.  There has NEVER been a more overrated generation than the Baby Boomers.  Let's see, for all the talk about how great the Baby Boomers are, here are your accomplishments:

                                            1.  Spent most of the 60s getting high on weed, although somehow in your minds being stoned all the time translates into some major social movement

                                            2.  Spent the late 60s / early 70s losing a war (good job guys)

                                            3.  Spent the late 70s getting high on coke and creating disco

                                            4.  Spent the 80's doing EXACTLY the same things that you're blaming the Gen X / Gen Y group for doing now (being greedy and trying to make as much money as possible)

                                            5.  Spent the 90's in a blissfully ignorant state as a massive economic bubble begins to form and enemies around the world set up to attack us

                                            6.  Spent the first decade of this century blaming everyone but yourselves for your own failures (foreclosures, unemployment, etc.) and expecting a bunch of entitlements from the government because you all can't hack it in life.  Which will, of course, push off MASSIVE debts to future generations.

                                            Unfriggin believable.  You Boomer people should be ashamed of how little you've done considering how much you could of accomplished, but you're busy trying to lecture the younger generations (who can only shake their heads and wonder how much of your stupidity we will be on the hook for). 

                                            So please, take a hike with your speeches about how we should live our lives!!!

                                            • 5 votes
                                            Reply#22 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:34 AM EST
                                            Bren-321988

                                            You forgot to add:

                                            7. Raised a generation of lazy kids with an over-blown sense of entitlement (frequently referred to as Gen Y).

                                            Amen to the rest of it, though.

                                              #22.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:22 PM EST
                                              Right On-819137

                                              This is exactly the problem with our society.  The boomer generation complains, complains, and then complains some more about the new generations, and then when their children do better, they complain some more.  My parents complain all the time that my husband makes more than they do.  Well, he's worked hard for it, got his degree, worked his way up, moved around.  They got jobs out of college and stayed in the same position for 30 years, yet they complain that my generation is lazy and we spend beyond our means.

                                              You need a college degree for most jobs, but then it leaves you in debt, housing is way more expensive than in used to be when compared to the percentage of income one earns.  We also have to pay more for our medical bills, place a higher amount of our salary away for retirement, have no pension plans, and no guarantee for any kind of social security when we retire.  But it is our fault for the way the society is.  News flash: We are just now entering society.  We are just now finding our way.  We do want change for our society, but that is because we want to leave a better, cleaner, safer society for our children, not the mess that we've been dealt. 

                                              I think the boomers should be ashamed of the economy that they have handed us and take some responsibility for creating the society that they are so in love with and they think is so wonderful. 

                                              We are going to be cleaning up this mess for generations.

                                              • 4 votes
                                              #22.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:33 PM EST
                                              JollyRogers

                                              Good points. When we were your age we also thought the older generation was a bunch of ignorant non-achievers and that we would set the world on its ear. Maybe you'd we well served not repeating all the same mistakes. (As in, taking advise from the older generation. There's no substitute for experience).

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #22.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:37 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              sonstone

                                              I love the Yers, I've been saying for years that the Xers are going to be one generation that doesn't have to worry too hard about the next generation taking their jobs.

                                                Reply#23 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:38 AM EST
                                                Capt. Code

                                                Well, if you're above some of us in the org chart, you better not rest on your laurels too long.  There may be several who aren't motivated, but those of us that are will look at your position, or even your boss' position, and consider a "hostile takeover."  There are many who are motivated enough to earn their way to the top.

                                                • 2 votes
                                                #23.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:03 PM EST
                                                sonstone

                                                That's the problem. You can't focus on the org chart. You have to focus on providing value.

                                                  #23.2 - Mon Feb 9, 2009 10:19 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  Common Horse Sense

                                                  Same story, different chapter.  I was born at the tail end of the baby boom (1964) and I remember hearing that "all you need is an education and you will get a good job."  FALSE! A number of factors enter that picture.  Where you went to school, whether that degree is marketable (at the college I attended in the mid-80s and from which I graduated, the job placement materials were from 1976!), and in some fields (like teaching), if your politics is right.  And in the early 1980s and in the early 1990s, we were in economic distress (I have two degrees, one I received in the mid 1980s and the other in 1990).  And we who were in that generation did not have $125 cell phone bills (we didn't have cell phones then) and no iPods.  And a $400 car payment then was for a luxury car. 

                                                  • 3 votes
                                                  Reply#24 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:38 AM EST
                                                  J. Hicks

                                                  No kidding - born in 1963 and know exactly what you're saying. And oh yeah - I too have two degrees, the second one earned to "catch the information system" age of prosperity. A lot of good it does me these days. So much of that sort of work has been off shored.

                                                  So here I go again at age 45, getting ready to embark on my 3rd career. We'll see how far it takes me. Long gone are the days when you could join a company, work for 35 years, and expect a company pension on top of social security. My parents were the last, and maybe the only, generation that got that deal.

                                                  If only I'd been born in 1938! I would have missed the great depression, yet experienced the good times in post WWII America. Here I am no in mid life, witnessing the next great depression - just my luck.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #24.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:19 PM EST
                                                  Carolinas-721515

                                                  Exactly, the good times of post WWII America, when segregation was acceptable, Jim Crow ruled the south, and at least 20-25% of America was not a threat economically.  People forget the GOOD OLE DAYS relied upon a grossely stratified and oppressive system. Women, non-Whites and immigrants were largely relegated to living in inferior accomodations with inferior pay.  Hmmm, the good times, oh yes! 

                                                  • 3 votes
                                                  #24.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:38 PM EST
                                                  fedupwithliberals

                                                  Exactly, the good times of post WWII America, when segregation was acceptable, Jim Crow ruled the south, and at least 20-25% of America was not a threat economically.  People forget the GOOD OLE DAYS relied upon a grossely stratified and oppressive system. Women, non-Whites and immigrants were largely relegated to living in inferior accomodations with inferior pay.  Hmmm, the good times, oh yes! 

                                                  Those were also the times when families valued spending time together, when neighbors spoke to each other, when children respected their elders, when people realized the value of hard work and the value of money...

                                                    #24.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:56 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    B.-819033

                                                    This article is offensive and full of generalizations.  My parents are in their 50's and my Mom is constanlty talking about how her generation (baby boomers) got sucked into fixating on what you have, acquiring things things things... the big house, 3 cars, vacations.  The Y generation had it beaten into their heads that you have to go to college, have to go to grad school to compete and get a good job.  Well most of the Y-ers I know just want a job that can keep them in a decent car and an apartment and maybe go out for happy hour once in a while.  I have two jobs, worked through high school and college (as did many of my friends), and I think it is unfair and extremely condescending to imply that we don't want to work hard.  Maybe if the generation before us had made better decisions (and instilled less materialistic values) things would be different.  And as a side note, there are lazy 25 and 50 year-olds and there are ambitious 25 and 50 year-olds.  If we're going to point fingers or lay guilt somewhere, maybe it should be on all the poor overworked 40 - 60 year-olds who lead us into the decade and economic situation we are facing now.  And as for what my parents told me (I am 24)... they pretty much told me that nothing is guaranteed, even after working for 30 years, and the world owes you nothing.  There will be tough times and there will be prosperous times.  I think most intelligent people of any age realize that.

                                                    • 7 votes
                                                    Reply#25 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:42 AM EST
                                                    Aftershock57

                                                    You go Kid.....

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #25.1 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:24 PM EST
                                                    Sue-322113

                                                    I think that a lot of ppl think that you do not work harder because this new generation works smarter. In this age kids don't have to add subtract multiply or divide they have calculators. When I was in school many years ago we memorized times tables, and learned why what when and where. Today it is not about the why what when and where it is about getting the job done as quickly and accurately as possible. There are always lazy ppl in any generation, and when we went to college we felt the same way we would graduate and get great jobs not be working at McDonalds....but we had to work at McDonalds if that was what was required.....we had families at 25......most ppl don't have families until after 30. I for one don't think that all Yers are lazy or expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, some of us thought the same way.....but if it did not work out like that we found what we could out of necessity because we had families to think of .

                                                      #25.2 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:55 PM EST
                                                      fedupwithliberals

                                                      I think that a lot of ppl think that you do not work harder because this new generation works smarter. In this age kids don't have to add subtract multiply or divide they have calculators.

                                                      Yes, but if that calculator broke, could they add/subtract/multiply/divide if they needed to? It's not smarter if you don't actually know how without some sort of aid. Kinda like the kids that can't tell time unless it's digital. Or that can't count back change unless the register tells them how much to give back. There's something to be said for "old fashioned" learning.

                                                        #25.3 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:02 PM EST
                                                        Stu-4803409

                                                        People talk of getting a job at Mcdonalds like its going to pay the bills.... 

                                                        Even if they paid $8.00 an hour here I would go broke working full time.  My housing costs $1700 a month and its a small townhome, I can't even imagine paying a house payment on Mcdonalds wages, you'd have to work 4 full time jobs there.

                                                          #25.4 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:58 PM EST
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