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Is stress pushing spelling snobs over edge?

Tue Feb 3, 2009 7:56 AM EST
travel, war, people, only-on-msnbc-com, behavior, says, grammar, spelling, krispy-kreme, punctuation, nickerson, angela-nickerson
msnbc.com News — Diane Mapes, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com

Kim Carney / msnbc.com

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— Some people avoid Krispy Kreme because of the calories. Angela Nickerson won’t go there because of the Ks.

“I confess, I’m a spelling, grammar and punctuation snob,” says the 35-year-old travel writer from Sacramento, Calif. “And I won’t patronize businesses with misspelled signs. It’s like hearing fingernails running down a chalkboard.”

Life isn’t easy for language lovers such as Nickerson. Over the past decade, her beloved mother tongue has been mashed, mangled and mistreated by everyone from a sitting president to a squadron of texting preteens. Misspelled menus have become the stuff of bad dreams. (Try our Sweat and Sour Chicken!) Punctuation is not only hit-and-miss, it’s potentially hazardous. (Employees must “wash hands.”)

But while blunders and bloopers have ever exasperated the spelling snobs and grammar grunions of the world, our recent woes — housing foreclosures, massive layoffs, rising debt and war — may be ratcheting up the pressure some feel to seize control of something (anything!), even if it’s just a properly placed comma.

“Hanging on to some kind of rule might be comforting to people,” says Bethany Keeley, a grad student from Athens, Ga., who runs The “Blog” of “Unnecessary” Quotation Marks. “People are looking for something they can control and ‘What should we do about our foreign policy?’ is a lot more complicated a question than ‘Should the period go inside or outside the quotation mark?’ ”

Dale Siegel, a financial expert from White Plains, N.Y., whose spelling is routinely corrected, says she’s definitely noticed a change in people.

“In general, I think people are getting a little bit meaner about correcting others or sharing what they call their ‘observations,’ ” she says. “They’re uptight and stressed out about losing their jobs. And if it makes them feel better to tell me I have a string hanging off my skirt or I used the word ‘your’ when I really meant to use the word ‘you’re,’ then fine.”

The English patient
Stress can affect how forgiving people are of spelling and punctuation errors, says Pauline Wallin, a clinical psychologist from Camp Hill, Pa.

“When people are under stress, they have less tolerance for minor frustrations,” she says. “Think of the harried mother rushing around trying to get her kids ready for school who loses it when one of them can’t find his homework. Spelling is something concrete and has a definite right answer so it does make you feel temporarily in control.”

But there are plenty of other principles at play as well.

An obsession with proper usage may be related to some kind of perfectionist streak, she says, or it could have to do with childhood patterns of wanting to please adults or teachers by doing things right. Putting somebody down by pointing out their bad spelling also could be a power thing. Or it could simply be part of the brain’s natural function.

“Our brains are wired to notice what’s different and when you’re sure of the right way and the wrong way, you notice mistakes more,” says Wallin, who admits to dropping out of an exercise class because the instructor kept misusing the word “lay.”

But we don’t just notice mistakes, the psychologist notes. We also pass judgment and assign blame for them.

“Attribution theory comes into this as well,” she says. “My mistakes are caused by external circumstances, but others’ are caused by a lack of skill or a character flaw.”

Gary Cohen, an executive coach from Minneapolis who’s been hassled about his spelling for years, says character has nothing to do with it.

“I didn’t have a choice about being a good speller,” he says. “It wasn’t about lack of effort or practice or laziness, which is what it can often be associated with. I grew up with learning differences. My daughter has them too.”

Indeed, researchers at Oxford University believe the ability to spell may have more to do with our DNA than the amount of time we spend with our nose in a dictionary. Others believe nutrition and sleep patterns can affect the way our brain manages the arduous task of learning the English language.

Revenge of the nerds
Regardless of the reasons we make mistakes — or feel the urge to correct the ones we observe in others — word nerds have definitely decided it’s time to kick adverbs and take names.

The past few years have seen a dramatic increase in books, broadcasts and puckish blogs that poke fun at common gaffes and proffer usage tips for those not in the know. Language love is celebrated via T-shirts, Facebook pages and shiny new holidays such as National Grammar Day. Even Oprah’s gotten in on the style and usage scene by asking Grammar Girl Mignon Fogarty to clear up confusion about compound possessives.

But these newly hip word warriors are doing more than writing odes to apostrophes and posting tips for people who don’t know their like or as from a hole in the ground.

The 350,000-member Facebook group “I Judge You When You Use Poor Grammar” encourages its members to “seek out the infidels (grammar offenders) and … document their acts of terror. Take pictures and post them in this group to serve as examples to all.”

Self-proclaimed grammar vandal Kate McCulley took up her standard — or rather her Sharpie pen and sheath of press-on commas — a year and a half ago, determined to fix the pesky punctuation errors she encountered along the streets of her native Boston.

“I don’t go out and do this every day, but if there’s something exceptionally bad, I can’t resist,” says the 24-year-old marketing analyst, who also posts pictures of badly punctuated birthday cakes and misspelled billboards on her blog, The Grammar Vandal.

Keeley, 25, also has joined the fray with her “Blog” of “Unnecessary” Quotation Marks, which gently mocks those who advertise “beef” goulash or post beware of “dog” signs. (It’s actually a very scary hamster, she ribs on her site.)

But much like the occasional diacritic, there are those who go over the top.

Christopher Kenton, chief executive of a social media software company from Fairfax, Calif., says his late father, a former New York Times editor, simply could not let a mistake go uncorrected.

“He carried five pens in his pocket at all times and would edit his morning paper at the breakfast table,” Kenton says. “My worst embarrassment was when he corrected someone’s bumper sticker in a public parking lot with passers-by staring.”

Spyro Poulos, a 39-year-old associate publisher from Brooklyn, N.Y., says he’s encountered grammar cops as well, including a few who act as if they’re on “some superhero mission to save society from the evils of an erroneous double negative.”

“My girlfriend will correct my punctuation when she reads my blog — I get my ‘its’ and ‘it’s’ mixed up sometimes — but she’s an editor and doing it out of love,” Poulos says. “We have a friend, though, who pathologically has to correct people’s grammar and it takes every iota of control I possess to not lash out at her.”

Nickerson, the writer who refuses to patronize stores that bear misspelled signs — including her neighborhood “bagle” shop — acknowledges that she may have crossed the language-use line at times.

“I noticed a new dry cleaners was opening and the apostrophe was in the wrong place on their brand new sign,” she says. “So I called and left a message. They called back and were not nice. I guess they were offended.”

But word warriors aren’t just offending people. Some are offending the law.

Last August, two self-proclaimed grammar vigilantes were charged with conspiracy to vandalize government property after they fixed punctuation errors on a historic hand-painted sign in Grand Canyon National Park. The pair was sentenced to a year’s probation, banned from national parks, prohibited from making any more corrections to public signs and ordered to pay more than $3,000 in restitution. (No information was available as to whether the sentence was complete or incomplete.)

Even spelling and grammar snobs say they’ve come under fire by zealots.

“We actually revoked one membership from a woman who refused to accept that ‘fun’ can now be used as an adjective,” says Martha Brockenbrough, founder of the Society for the Promotion of Good Grammar and author of “Things That Make Us (Sic).” “Some people can’t acknowledge that language evolves. [They’re] over the top with their expectations.”

Misplaced motives?
How can you tell if your love of language is driving you to verbal (not to mention adverbial) abuse? Wallin advises a close look at your motivation for correcting others.

“If it’s to show how smart you are, it will probably backfire, especially if the other person feels embarrassed,” she says. “However, if you want to help your spouse or child present themselves well on a job application or school assignment, then it’s OK to correct them. But even here, make sure that you don’t come across as condescending or critical. Focus on the misspelled word rather than on the person’s lack of spelling skill.”

Luckily, many of today’s word nerds opt for gentle humor — as opposed to a usage guide up alongside the head — to help get their message across.

“The Society for the Promotion of Good Grammar doesn’t walk around with a pen correcting signs,” Brockenbrough says. “[But] we do write funny, tongue-in-cheek letters to grammar offenders. Think of it this way: If you were walking around with your zipper down, wouldn’t you feel grateful to the person who kindly pointed that out?”

And while there are myriad motivations behind the impulse to correct — perfectionism, eagerness to please, payback for eight long years of the word “nucular,” and perhaps even rampant unemployment — diehard spelling and grammar snobs insist they’re only trying to help.

“When I go through and mark up a menu, I’m not doing it to humiliate the person,” says Nickerson. “I just want them to know so they don’t look uneducated. When it’s your public persona, it’s important to be accurate.”

And perhaps to remember that nobody’s perfect.

“I once used the word ‘right’ when I meant to say ‘write’ on a friend’s Facebook wall,” says grammar vandal McCulley. “She’s a writing professor and immediately wrote back to chide me for using a homophone. I told her I was going to go put my head in the oven.”

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Red Door Painted Black

When writing or speaking to 6.8 billion people, it had better look and sound intelligent if you want your opinion to matter.

George W. Bush

"Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?" - January 2000, during a campaign event in South Carolina.

"They misunderestimated the compassion of our country. I think they misunderestimated the will and determination of the commander in chief, too." - Sept. 26, 2001, in Langley, Va. Bush was referring to the terrorists who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks.

"There's no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we will fail." - Oct. 4, 2001, in Washington. Bush was remarking on a back-to-work plan after the terrorist attacks.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again." - Sept. 17, 2002, in Nashville, Tenn.

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - Aug. 5, 2004, at the signing ceremony for a defense spending bill.

"Too many good docs are getting out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." - Sept. 6, 2004, at a rally in Poplar Bluff, Mo.

"We look forward to hearing your vision, so we can more better do our job." - Sept. 20, 2005, in Gulfport, Miss.

"I can't wait to join you in the joy of welcoming neighbors back into neighborhoods, and small businesses up and running, and cutting those ribbons that somebody is creating new jobs." - Sept. 5, 2005, when Bush met with residents of Poplarville, Miss., in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

"It was not always a given that the United States and America would have a close relationship. After all, 60 years we were at war 60 years ago we were at war." - June 29, 2006, at the White House, where Bush met with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.

"Make no mistake about it, I understand how tough it is, sir. I talk to families who die." - Dec. 7, 2006, in a joint appearance with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

"Thank you, Your Holiness. Awesome speech." - April 16, 2008, at a ceremony welcoming Pope Benedict XVI to the White House.

"The fact that they purchased the machine meant somebody had to make the machine. And when somebody makes a machine, it means there's jobs at the machine-making place." - May 27, 2008, in Mesa, Ariz.

"I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office." - June 26, 2008, during a Rose Garden news briefing.

"Throughout our history, the words of the Declaration have inspired immigrants from around the world to set sail to our shores. These immigrants have helped transform 13 small colonies into a great and growing nation of more than 300 people." - July 4, 2008 in Virginia.

  • 6 votes
#1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:57 AM EST
nmbg

Red Door obviously has a lot of time on his hands.

He obsessively scouts any/all opportunity to spew more Bush hatred, no matter how irrelevant to the story at hand.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:43 PM EST
sparksfly

Are you kidding? These lists are all over the internet. Copy and paste is your friend. And you don't have to hate Bush to be amazed at his lack of speaking skills and his poor command of our language. Lets face it, if he wasnt president it would actually be funny.

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:49 PM EST
P.C. Moblee

Who told writers that it was okay to start sentences with "But" and "And"? I would have gotten an instant "F" if I'd done that in high school.

Make it stop!

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:06 PM EST
sparksfly

You must be old P.C. Just kidding but thats an old rule. Its long been accepted that 'and' and 'but ' can start a sentence.

  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:13 PM EST
oh please-504237

"that's an old rule." (forgot the apostrophe)

"It has long been accepted." (incorrect contraction - unlessyou meant "It is long been" and even then you forgot the apostrophe.)

But it has not become acceptable. You just think it has because so many people do it. The rules of grammar did not change. Ask any well-educated sixth-grader.

Yep, I'm a grammar bitch.

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:22 PM EST
P.C. Moblee

Yeah, I know it's a losing fight, like Don Quixote and his windmills...(damn, I am old, or at least smarter than I thought)...but it's something I like to rant about every once in a while!

I know people have talked like that forever, but the writing part makes for difficult reading, sometimes.

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:22 PM EST
jeeesus

OMG, LOL this is looney tunes..wired up correctly or spaghetti wired. what difference does it make, as long as your understood ?? vulgarity and racist, degrading remarks are not excusable. sometimes fast typos happen. were not writing books for review or such. bloggers type at their own speed. with their own views. grammar police should become teachers....

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:24 PM EST
dewintre200

Sentences start with "and" in the Bible. But not that anyone uses King James English anymore. Look! I started a sentence with "but". ;) And put a period outside the quotes.

I think this use of a conjunction is probably a stylistic convention meant to imitate speech, where a period simply represents a pause for emphasis.

As far as spelling goes, I tend to regard it as a measure of someone's attention to detail. If a percentage of their words are spelled incorrectly, I tend not to value their opinions by the same degree. If someone can't learn a word, who knows what else they've failed to properly process and remember?

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:39 PM EST
ClintHorace

Who needs correct grammar or spelling when you have "spell check"?

Who needs math skills when you have calculators?

Who needs to be able to read when you have books on audio tape and movies?

Who needs to know test answers when you can just google it from your Blackberry?

I DO! IT'S CALLED KNOWLEDGE!

People are just getting more and more lazy. This article and society in general, are inviting the country to be as dumb as they can be!

A typo is one thing, but consistently butchering the language because of ignorance is truly pathetic.

And people wonder why America is losing ground on the rest of the world.

  • 9 votes
#1.9 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:51 PM EST
Voter-in-LA

Well said ClintHorace, but it's not just America, it's global. Add to that, this isn't just a problem at an individual level, the printed press is equally bad in this aspect.

The major problem with spellcheckers is that most of them omit correcting homophones. It drives me nuts seeing their/there/they're, know/no, etc misused.

And ditto for your observation re calculators. What good does a calculator do if the person using it has no clue of the approximate value the answer should be. As proof all one would have to do is reread the countless inane posts and emails after Stimulus I detailing how people thought the amount could have been better divied up by giving each tax payer $1,000,000.

The sad thing is, so many who use online resources never bother to verify the answer. Instead they rely on the first site they visit and take what they find as gospel.

  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 3:07 PM EST
dEdGrimley

Bush's grammatical errors are irrelevant to the story? I beg to differ.

For those who are easily offended by grammar problems, what would be more irritating than the most powerful person in the world tripping over his words like they were potholes in a sidewalk.

But in the world today, with the access to the electronic world, there is so much more written down than ever before, and people seem to be becoming LESS literate. I only wish I could set some sort of electrical shock system into keyboards that checks for the misuse of "Your-You're" and the various variations of "There-Their-They're." People want to type and say as much as they can online, but we need to learn how to use the right words. Or else all of our future presidents will butcher the language like George Bush.

  • 3 votes
#1.11 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:09 PM EST
dewintre200

dEd, I think these people always existed, its just that the Internet didn't give them access to spew poorly written crap.

Hell, before the Internet, I actually had faith in Democracy, but on a day to day basis, the Internet seems to underscore all the flaws inherent with mob rule.

  • 2 votes
#1.12 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:17 PM EST
Archaeopteryx of HyruleDeleted
John Mayer

You don’t start a sentence with “and” or “but” in formal writing. But I think it would be damned hard to write a piece of fiction without doing so repeatedly. Circumstances alter cases.

Similarly, communicating via the internet is somewhere between writing letters and making phone calls. It would be a ridiculous waste of time to meticulously review and edit a casual comment like this one before pushing the “Post” button.

However, I actually do believe that, in the long run, good grammar, good spelling and good pronunciation are important. Language changes, but I’m glad there are grammar “snobs” (an unfortunate and mostly unjustified pejorative in this case) who drag their feet to keep it from changing too fast. Language is an imperfect enough instrument of communication without everyone making up their own rules.

And, Lord knows, I’ve been corrected often enough. Last time it was for mistakenly using the word “smarmy” to mean “sleazy.” I didn’t resent the correction. Very much. Now my use of language is one word more precise.

Yours truly,

John Mayer

  • 2 votes
#1.14 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:51 AM EST
Dan-410533

Well is they?

  • 1 vote
#1.15 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 10:00 AM EST
irish_explorer

This would be amusing except I saw on TV one day, mind you it wasn't an interview with a math student, but the lady had just declared she was an "English Major" at this University. When asked about the rapes that had been occuring around or near the campus her response was "I be afraid of being raped by this man..." An English student no less, who apparently had no idea of how to properly place the correct verb in this sentence? We are probably all guilty of mis-pronouncing or mis-spelling a word or two, but another I've seen is the "Asked" being replaced by "Axed". I was axed a question? Oh really, where are the marks from the Axe lady? That would leave a nasty bruise or a bleeding wound!

Our schools are responsible. Teachers are being taught that to give tests it hurts the self esteem of those who cannot pass the tests? Spell it like it sounds. Nobody will correct you because that's how you get to spell it. They call it "whole learning" and there is nothing whole nor healthy about it. Imagine your doctor or surgeon either not being able to spell, or pronounce a word, nor have to take any test to get their license to practice medicine?

Does it matter? Heck yes it does! I axe you, are you sure?

  • 2 votes
#1.16 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:08 PM EST
tyler

Bethany Keeley, a grad student from Athens, Ga., who runs The “Blog” of “Unnecessary” Quotation Marks

This blog is "awesome". Or awsome, I suppose.

I was axed a question?

I hope you're only hearing this mispronounced and not seeing it misspelled.

  • 2 votes
#1.17 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 4:22 PM EST
tom343

The schools don't emphasize spelling or grammar or history or civics or good music these days for two reasons.

  1. The teachers don't know these things due to their own poor schooling;
  2. There's not enough time since their primary jobs, indoctrination and socializing takes too much time.
  • 1 vote
#1.18 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:33 PM EST
Reply
Kevin-858087

Relax people - the higher you go in this controversy the more confusion there is. Anyone that has written a journal article can tell you that.

There are synaesthetes that have other senses activated by words and the prevalence in the general population of this condition is substantially higher than previously estimated. This might help to explain why some people react strongly to misspelled words (and certain letters, numbers and so forth).

I remember the professor who marked down his students who used 'spatial' versus 'spacial' -- ay caramba!

Visit this story:

  • 1 vote
#2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:58 AM EST
SniprKlr

I hate to tell this snob the awful truth of how languages change over time... Languages don't remain the same, and sorry but that language snob is actually speaking and writing a Language that had derived from Old English... Language is a form of communication, and that is all it is.. It really matters not if the message has a spelling error, typo, slang, or punctuation error so long as the message is understood.. What she is looking at is a generation that is changing the language and she can't handle the changes.... Eventually, the English book will be replaced by a new book...Just like Old English was replaced with what we call today's English language...

Language evolution and change directly derives from slang and the common use of it.. You wouldn't see her complaining about people writing in short hand...That is also a form of slang... These Language Nazis really can't handle the change... This woman will probably jump off a bridge in 30 years when the English language is nearly replaced by another evolved language...

And how does she account for "Lingo" ? Medical and the language of the law are types of slang...

Sorry to all the poor snobs out there but your complaints are largely a useless attempt to place control on other people... Most snobs do this because it give them a sense of control over others and not because they "love the Language"... The only time I ever see these people comment on another person's spelling, grammar, and punctuation is when they are trying to be a "Snob" or to dehumanize another person... They are usually the type that everyone wants to punch in the face because they act as if they are so rightious or Perfect when they clearly are not...

BTW I refuse to fix any typos, spelling errors, punctuation, or grammar errors in this post... :)

  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:14 PM EST
SniprKlr

I would like to also point out that English is not a well structured language.. It tends to break its own rules... And the spelling rules are incredibly retarded.. Like how you teach your kids to pronounce the letter P and the letter H, and then tell them when you put the two together it makes the F sound... What idiot comes up with this crap... The problem with English and why so many people screw it up is because it has illogical rules or structure... Spelling Phone with a PH is just stupid... Use the letter F, that is what it's there for... And then you have silent letters, and again what moron came up with silent letters? Then you begin to ask yourself why so many people have trouble spelling... The structure and rules are actually that retarded...

The reason why English is the hardest language to learn is because it's really not a well structured language, and because it breaks it's own rules...

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:28 PM EST
MLIL

I'm sorry, but when a person constantly mis-spells words, uses the wrong contraction, and completely fails to follow even the most basic rules of grammar, they give people the impression that they are uneducated, or stupid, or just plain lazy.

While it's true that languages evolve, they evolve slowly, and there will always be a certain number of people who are resistant to such evolution. Jargons (what you call "Lingo") are specialized languages, developed for the purpose of adequate communication between members of the same class/profession. Slang is constantly changing; the slang that was used in my high school is now more or less obsolete, even though it has only been 6 years since I left high school. There was a time when the term "teenager" was not a word.

As for changing the spelling of words, changing the makeup of the English language as we know it, the government tried to do that once. It was proposed to develop "American English" spelling, and it was all phonetic. It didn't work. People refused to use the "new" spelling system because they didn't want to appear uneducated, stupid, or lazy. Do you know of any language that spells everything the way it is supposed to sound? I can't think of one.

  • 3 votes
#2.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 5:39 PM EST
SniprKlr

That really isn't true.. Languages can evolve rather quickly.. America has been a country for how long now? And you can literally go coast to coast and notice how fast it changes in both slang and pronunciation.. Language is ever changing... You can actually be incredibly smart without even knowing how to properly write the language... You may think it makes people look stupid but in reality it is hardly ever the case... A genius in Math would not need to know how to write in proper English.. In Fact many people considered geniuses or even billionaires have trouble spelling and using proper grammar.

Slang VS Lingo.. THere is a point where slang becomes so structured that it can be considered "Lingo" or a language of it's own... Slang is the natural process of language evolutions that leads to restructuring of a language.. Once, got or ain't weren't words, but now they are... Language is determined by the use of a word whether it be slang, Lingo, or considered an official part of a language..

As for the government to change the the American English spelling...It would be futile because language changes by the people themselves and not by any particular entity or governing power... What slang words are popular today may become the English words of the future... So to say someone is spelling a word wrong is to be ignorant of it's future acceptance... Just like ain't or got... Both words in the English Dictionary.. Proper grammar and spelling are at best OPINIONS on the proper use of the language's structure and rules even if the rules or structure is an epic failure of it's own..

Some people think it is lazy to spell words in short form or to miss punctuation ectra.. It could mean that the language is overly complex or poorly structured... Meaning the language could be optimized for faster and more direct communication... The English language is one big pile of obese crap and surely could use simplification around a solid structure with logical rules...For example my entire post could probably have been written with far less characters/letters and still have projected the same message...

  • 1 vote
#2.4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 7:09 PM EST
SniprKlr

"Do you know of any language that spells everything the way it is supposed to sound? I can't think of one"

You would be amazed how well people could spell if they did... It's not a matter of how smart people are because language is largely determined more by the spoken word that the written... It's how the human brain works... When words that are easily sounded out and spelled as in how they sound, you find that the majority of those types of words rarely get spelled incorrectly... Mass majority of spelling errors are typos and not actual spelling errors.. Sure, you can call them lazy for not fixing the error or noticing it..However, that doesn't make them stupid just because they could care less if the typo was made or not... There are more important things in life than to fuss over such trivial things that will wind up changing anyways... The only importance in a language is to convey a message..If the message is understood then there really is no problem with the messages minor errors..

It only becomes a problem when the message changes due to the error... And most of that comes from the wrong use of a word or words mostly found in those who come from other countries and can't speak a lick of English...

  • 1 vote
#2.5 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 7:19 PM EST
SniprKlr

And yes I made some spelling errors and grammar errors without fixing them :P.. Such as "determined more by the spoken word that the written.." that = than ;)

    #2.6 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 7:46 PM EST
    bitemore

    While it is true that the language changes constantly, nevertheless it tends to do so at a relatively slow pace, allowing for people to adapt to the changes. That said, some kind of uniformity is necessary so that the real purpose of language, communication, is not lost in the creativity of evolution. If communication were not the aim of language (both written and spoken), then there would be no point at all to it.

    Where I do have a problem is where a misspelling is finally accepted, not because it is logical evolution, but to adapt to the laziest users of a particular word.

    A case in point: judgment. Back in the dark ages, when I was in school (let's say Junior High), the ONLY accepted spelling was j-u-d-g-m-e-n-t. Now, however, j-u-d-g-E-m-e-n-t is also accepted.

    Now, that difference didn't matter to me. I see a word once and can spell it forever. But, I had classmates for whom spelling was the most difficult task they had ever encountered, and one misspelled word on a final exam could mean the difference between passing or failure. Imagine, if you will, that the word in question had been "judgment." Imagine a student having failed because he misspelled it as "judgement." Imagine what the consequences might have been, including a full grade point lower than might otherwise have been earned, and rejection by a college for that reason.

    Imagine how that person would feel today, learning that his "misspelling" turned out to be, after all, quite acceptable. Do you think he could ever be compensated for how much more difficult his life had been all because of one exam and one "misspelled" word on that exam?

    Some things have to remain constant, especially when there are no good reasons why they should change. Adding new words is acceptable, altering or expanding meanings is acceptable, but to change the spelling in order to accommodate the laziest among us is to remove the meaning of spelling tests and spelling bees.

    If the laziest among us want to call us nitpickers or anything else, that's fine. But they are merely shouting over the truth: they are lazy. They simply cannot shout loudly enough to cover up that one simple fact.

    • 3 votes
    #2.7 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 7:50 PM EST
    PistOff08

    The reason why English is the hardest language to learn is because it's really not a well structured language, and because it breaks it's own rules...

    A friend of mine, whose primary language is German, said it simplest: "Ours is a language of rules with a few exceptions. English is a language of exceptions with a couple of rules thrown in."

    Still, with free and compulsory education from kindergarten to twelfth grade, you'd think at least some people would get the idea.

    • 3 votes
    #2.8 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:02 PM EST
    Gustavo-861148

    To MLIL

    "Do you know of any language that spells everything the way it is supposed to sound? I can't think of one."

    Think of Spanish, it is phonetic, consistent, and one who knows the rules can read, write and pronounce every word correctly. That is not to say there are no homonyms such as haré and aré ( I will do and I ploughed respectively). Every word written in Spanish has one unambiguous pronunciation even if the converse is not necessarily true.

      #2.9 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:30 PM EST
      S312710

      2.2 today's English is based on the grammar of five different sources: Latin and Greek, Germanic, Frank, and Norse (there are other words that refer to these language groups)

      rules are sourced to one of, or a series of, the various language groups so of course they look weird ... especially when most people think English is ONE language, rather than the gathering of expressions, ideas, etc., from the various invaders of England.

      • 1 vote
      #2.10 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:50 PM EST
      SniprKlr

      "If the laziest among us want to call us nitpickers or anything else, that's fine. But they are merely shouting over the truth: they are lazy. They simply cannot shout loudly enough to cover up that one simple fact."

      They laziest are sometimes not actually lazy.. The optimization by simplification can sometimes lead to increased performance of communication... To simplify a language by adjusting the spelling of a word or words could mean faster and more direct form of communication.. Complex languages lead to poor performance and poor progress... I understand your "need for a constant" However, in language there is no such thing as it is like our Universe, always changing and always in motion... Constants only provide a base to where the new will derive it's roots from.. There comes a point where spelling changes with the language... That has been a universal fact and there never is a "true constant" Suggest you read up on Arabic or other languages with multiple dialects...

      Ebonics for example is now considered a language of its own.. It has developed a structure and a set of rules... Many considere it uncivilized or ghetto... But that does not change what it is..

      • 2 votes
      #2.11 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:05 PM EST
      SniprKlr

      The Laziest* just for you contant monsters :)

        #2.12 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:38 PM EST
        SniprKlr

        For example, do you really need a questionmark vs a period at the end of a question to know it is a question. <--- ??? When we ask a question verbally do we say: How are you doing questionmark... This very thing could eliminate a key on a keyboard which would clould lower the costs of keyboard manufacturing... The one key elimation may even result in a more optimized key layout for easier typing (yes I know the ? key currently need the Shift key for its use..It's an example of simplifiying or optimizing by eliminating what we may not really need).. It would indeed be interesing to see a language structued based on optimization and logic vs what we have now...

        • 1 vote
        #2.13 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:50 PM EST
        dewintre200

        SniprKlr, maybe the language is intentionally complex so the reader can objectively judge how stupid the writer is just on the basis of how many errors he commits?

        • 3 votes
        #2.14 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:20 PM EST
        MLIL

        Yes, one most definitely needs to place a question mark at the end of a written question. We don't say "question mark" at the end of questions in spoken language because the inflection is in our voice. When writing, one doesn't have the advantage of inflection, so one must use a question mark to symbolize the inflection, just as one would use an exclamation point to symbolize excitement, incredulity, increased volume, etc.

        You may see spoken and written language as simply a means to communicate in the most efficient way possible, but I use both spoken and written language as a medium to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts, my philosophies, my creativity...the list goes on. Language is the primary way humans express themselves. Language is not just communication, language is art. Language, to me, is beautiful.

        For me, anyway, a person who does not care about correct spelling or proper grammar does not care enough about themselves to express themselves in an intelligent manner.

        • 4 votes
        #2.15 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:43 PM EST
        SniprKlr

        "For me, anyway, a person who does not care about correct spelling or proper grammar does not care enough about themselves to express themselves in an intelligent manner"

        MLIL That is a very bold assumption to make of other people... To dehumanize someone because they have a different opinion.. And no you do not need infliction to understand what a written question is... The infliction is automatic... I would agree that Excitement would need further infliction.. And yes you can call your language an art form if you like..However, art is of an opinion and not everyone likes your artistic view.. So slang and other evolutionary changes to language occur because others start expressing their artistic view of the language.. You practically prove my point here.. Your entire comment was purely your opinion or artistic taste as Ebonics or any other language is to others..Binary code for example is just another language but it is art that creates a blank page so other artists can manipulate it with their own creativity/languages... Java script and C++... All creative in their own ways, and yet ever changing to be more efficient while retaining creativity...

        I personally feel that the English Language is too complex for it's own good.. It is not the ammount of words or the slang that kills this beast..It's the horrid structure that could use some serious optimization... Such as the removal of silent letters... You call that art but I call that illogical waste of space,time, and causes confusion that makes people question how to spell other words...

        By your view you feel the world should be painted with your brush.. What you are asking is to stemmy the growth and evolution of language so you can hold on to your precious language as is.. But, this is not how it works in the real world...

        In my view I feel you should be allowed to express yourself in any form you can or any artist form you want... It does not matter if it is in slang, lingo, broken English, or in binary code so long as your message is understood and the artistic expression felt.

        • 1 vote
        #2.16 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 12:11 AM EST
        SniprKlr

        artistic* last paragraph

        • 1 vote
        #2.17 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 12:34 AM EST
        dewintre200

        I think there are greater challenges in this world than learning how to read and spell. English may not be 100% rational in its ruleset, but if you're unable to learn those rules, you've got other problems.

        • 1 vote
        #2.18 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 12:38 AM EST
        SniprKlr

        Dew that isn't what I would call true.. Everyone has "other problems" regardless if they learned the rules or learned to manipulate the rules... As they say rules are meant to be broken.. Even if the English language was 100% rational or efficient, it would probably still evolve and change... I only used my examples to show people that the English Language is not set in stone.. THe language will ever change along with the rules and structure.. English is like the binary code.. It's a base to which other languages and creativity can be written on... Just like the cave men who grunted, huffed, and maybe even puffed out basic communication and expression so that English could later evolve..

        And yes there are greater challenges in this world than to learn how to read, write, and spell... Just remember that not everyone's brains are wired to excel in this field of study... Much like Albert Einstein couldn't even tie his own shoes or drive a car.. Intelligence is not soley placed in Language...

        • 1 vote
        #2.19 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:03 AM EST
        Kevin-858087

        Don't forget psycholinguistics -- there is a window in language development for recognizing the different sounds generated by the human voice. Once the window closes it can be difficult if not impossible for a person to attend to those differences. There is the thought that if you cannot produce the sound you also cannot "hear" it -- how might this apply to writing? That is a very quick and dirty cover of the concept. Really fascinating area of research.

          #2.20 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:42 AM EST
          bitemore

          Language, whether spoken or written, is all about communication, the transmission of what is inside the mind of one person in such a way that another person (or people) can understand as precisely as possible what was intended. Punctuation allows for nuance that would otherwise be invisible to the reader. Spoken language relies on tones in order to convey the nuance, whether it is a pause, a question, excitement, or the screeching of verbal brakes. And, dyslexia and other disabilities aside, those who are unwilling to conform to the basic accepted rules of language are simply too lazy to do so, and would rather cast aspersions on others than simply to admit to laziness. This, by the way, has nothing to do with normal change and flexibility. No one is arguing that language doesn't or shouldn't change, but change is rarely the result of one person's lack of desire to learn what is accepted and who, therefore, decides his way is the only way. Lazy is lazy is lazy.

          • 2 votes
          #2.21 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:42 AM EST
          MLIL

          SniprKlr,

          I do not dehumanize people who don't speak or write well, and I don't think I implied that I do in my post. I said that when I hear a person speak poorly or see a poorly written letter or post, I interpret their poor speech or poor writing skills as a lack of caring. If one doesn't care about how they speak or write, what else do they not care about? I was not saying that this is so, I was saying that that is how I interpret poor speech or writing. Just as you chose to interpret my statement as "people who speak or write poorly are less than human" based on your preconcieved idea of what kind of a person I am.

          • 3 votes
          #2.22 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:27 PM EST
          tom343

          Well, respect or disrespect for the language demonstrates either ignorance of the skills or rejection of the culture. Rationalization often is seen when the skills just aren't there.

          • 2 votes
          #2.23 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:40 PM EST
          SniprKlr

          bitemore

          The "lack of care" in ones verbal or written use of the language does not mean they don't care about other things.. Like I said, you people assume things.. Especially about other people.. In fact 80 percent of Americans do not pronounce the English Language properly do to accents... Everyone has individuality that has both strengths and weaknesses.. The assumption that people are being lazy for example is simply a means to lebel people just because they don't care enough about your level of standards or opinions on the spoken or written language... It's doesn't make them lazy or stupid people..

          Language changes by mistakes, typos, pronunciation errors, accents, slang, lingo, rebellion, just for fun, name calling, labeling, creativity, or defiance of retarded rules and structures... Plus many other reasons i have not listed here... Call them lazy, uneducated, uncaring, or whatever else you want, it will not change that the English language will no doubt morph into other languages.. The process can not be stopped or controlled by Language snobs, lovers, Nazis, artists or any other form of control... You people need to accept reality..

          BTW, Everyone is "Lazy" in some form or another... We are all hypocrites to some degree..

          • 1 vote
          #2.24 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 9:16 PM EST
          Nancy-400923

          That is so intelligent that I can't think of a word to honor you with!

          • 1 vote
          #2.25 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 10:17 PM EST
          joe-871648Deleted
          Nancy-400923

          Hey Joe, what 'cha know? LOL!

            #2.27 - Sun Feb 8, 2009 2:12 AM EST
            Reply
            Red Door Painted Black

            Republican Right Wing illiterates use words like taylored, factless, nukular, appoinments, secratary, peices, Isreal, Israelies, guidlines, Musilums. These are not typos when typed over and over.

            It is 2009 and Bush still says "misunderestimate"!

            • 2 votes
            Reply#3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:08 AM EST
            DG_W

            Republican Right Wing illiterates use words like taylored, factless, nukular, appoinments, secratary, peices, Isreal, Israelies, guidlines, Musilums. These are not typos when typed over and over.

            It is 2009 and Bush still says "misunderestimate"!

            My favorite is "nukular", because it is not only misspelled but also mispronounced! Will Ferrell did a good George Bush impersonation on Saturday Night Live, replete with all the obligatory English missteps...

            • 2 votes
            #3.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:14 PM EST
            nmbg

            There you go again, Red Door.

            You're clearly seathing at the diminishing number of anti-Bush stories these days, so you invent your own.

            Get a life, dude.

            • 3 votes
            #3.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:49 PM EST
            gurf

            I would like to point out that it was Jimmy Carter who first mangled the word "nuclear" with his "nukular". Although it did sound more like "nukulah"

            • 1 vote
            #3.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:33 PM EST
            GoneButNotForgiven

            Hey Red Door Painted Black! Nice work! Keep it up, please, because I am really enjoying it. No matter what the right wing says or does (are you listening nmbg?) there is just no hiding the fact that they elected and doggedly supported the Worst. President. Ever. His ability to mangle the language belongs in this discussion, since it was practically a trademark. Bush set the bar lower than a snake's belly in many ways. This is the only one we can laugh about.

            • 2 votes
            #3.4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 3:49 PM EST
            Annette H.

            As I recall, President Clinton couldn't pronounce "nuclear" correctly either, but since he was a Democrat, nobody said anything.

            • 1 vote
            #3.5 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 4:16 PM EST
            Annette H.

            Just want to add these two often misused words: who's/whose, lead/led.

              #3.6 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 4:24 PM EST
              sunnylady

              I'm sure it was their southern accent.

              • 1 vote
              #3.7 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 5:08 PM EST
              ChangeICanBelieveIn_SiSePuede!

              I agree with those in this post about the evil and stupidity of George Bush. He has set the English Language back hundreds - if not thousands of years . He has ruined this country and it will take Obama at least the 8 years he'll have in office to get this country back on track - and then Biden will need the next 8 years to completely remove the stench of Bush.

              • 1 vote
              #3.8 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 5:41 PM EST
              dewintre200

              Its all good fun to ridicule Bush, but don't forget which groups Democrats typically pander to, and they rank at the absolute BOTTOM of the testing curve.

              • 2 votes
              #3.9 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:22 PM EST
              DG_W

              As I recall, President Clinton couldn't pronounce "nuclear" correctly either, but since he was a Democrat, nobody said anything.

              Hmmm...maybe the Republicans didn't notice!

                #3.10 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:54 PM EST
                Javajim

                nmbg-

                I think you mean seething...!

                  #3.11 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:17 PM EST
                  tom343

                  Off subject.

                    #3.12 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:41 PM EST
                    daria-357709

                    Doesn't matter, Tom....I have yet to see one Newsvine thread that didn't end up with politics thrown in there somewhere....that, and religion!

                    This could be a discussion about mold and it would somehow be Bush's fault, Obama's fault, or the fault of those vile video games that are supposedly (*supposebly* ha ha)warping the young minds of this generation!

                    • 1 vote
                    #3.13 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 8:52 AM EST
                    joe-871648Deleted
                    Reply
                    Pastor Jo

                    Of course as I write this response, I find myself concerned about using the correct spelling and proper grammatical usage of words. LOL

                    Both my parents were teachers and education was very important to them.
                    Correct spelling, correct pronounciation and the correct use of verbs, adverbs,
                    nouns, etc. was very important. It meant that you were presenting yourself
                    to a propspective employer in the best light possible. It may have
                    meant that perhaps you had overcome a disadvantaged childhood. It meant that you
                    were doing what you needed to in terms of engaging in community as the best you
                    you could be. It certainly wasn't the be all and end all for them but their life experience,
                    their context determined that speaking well was a way to engage with others and have
                    them understand you.

                    As far as it being more a matter of DNA over learning, well, my mother used to sit with
                    my father as he read the N.Y. Times aloud and when he made a mistake, she corrected
                    him. He appreciated and welcomed it. As for my sister who was born with learning
                    differences (dyslexia) my parents spent a great deal of time helping her learn to
                    read, write and spell correctly. However, they also understood that her hard wiring would
                    let her go only so far in certain areas but she had other talents and abilities that
                    she could do where others could not.

                    I think the issue to address has to do with our motivation in why we correct. My husband
                    and I will "edit" each other. The same is true for my family and friends. I don't like seeing
                    misspelled words used in advertising because I don't think it's necessary. However, in those situations I don't correct the authors. When my children were young I did teach them
                    the proper spelling.

                    Civility is also a necessary component in how we live together as a healthy, functioning community. I think that should be kept in mind as well. And now I will end this contribution to the discussion with Mom's voice in the background, "check for any errors!"

                      Reply#4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:12 AM EST
                      Kevin-858087

                      Ok, as a newbie the site is restricting my link. The link discusses the variations in comma and period usage inside and outside quotation marks. I assure you that there are significant differences between American English and British English and, moreover, what is considered correct changes periodically. The Germans also went through a spelling and punctuation reformation not so long ago. Gott im Himmel !

                      If you want to have some fun look into the controversy over the spelling of "height" -- or is it "heighth?" Check out the 1951 Webster's: "hight" was an acceptable variant but by 1960 this had changed. The universe did not crack open as a result.

                      Chill.

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#5 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:14 AM EST
                      bitemore

                      Kevin, if you want to include a link, you need to select XHTML mode when posting a comment.

                        #5.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:27 PM EST
                        oh please-504237

                        Kevin, the structure of your first sentence implies that the site is a newbie.

                        • 2 votes
                        #5.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:25 PM EST
                        Kevin-858087

                        I will try that option next time. A message popped up that told me my ability to include html was limited because I was a new user. That is fairly typical.

                        oh please, yes, that is a valid alternate interpretation of my sentence. There are usually quite a number of interpretations. If you look at vision science there is a corresponding effect for ambiguous figures -- it is difficult once a pattern has been interpreted to step away from it and see an alternate "meaning."

                          #5.3 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:32 AM EST
                          Reply
                          Dave Burnham

                          Good Morning

                          Just one quick comment, people that get upset over things like this need to just do one thing.

                          GET A LIFE!

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#6 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:22 AM EST
                          mc-752136

                          You said it................ I am tired of Anal idiots........... Who the hell cares how you spell or punctuate anything.............. Keep your Crap to yourself..............If you don't like the way someone spells Shut up and don't read it..............

                          I once saw a photo of one of the Anal idiots that consistently correct my spelling and grammar and I must admit That from the photo I can see that all they have in there life is to sit at a keyboard and pick and scratch themselves..............;)

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:16 AM EST
                          Burnt Out

                          AMEN Dave!!

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:38 AM EST
                          Lord Farquar

                          Obviously, those without grammar skills are venting here. It is a shame that some people refuse to learn to communicate properly.

                          • 8 votes
                          #6.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:15 PM EST
                          SuzyQ_TX

                          You got that right.

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:23 PM EST
                          sunnylady

                          There are many cultures in this country that also affect pronunciation and spelling. I also find that some cultures use singular verbs when plural verbs are proper. For instance, "He were looking" should be "He was looking." This one really gets me, "I saws you." However, as previously stated, cultures do (not does) have a great influence on the English language.

                            #6.5 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 5:15 PM EST
                            dewintre200

                            America is this great place where idiots who can't spell can still feel PROUD of that fact.

                            • 2 votes
                            #6.6 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:26 PM EST
                            Reply
                            Puck2u

                            It still amazes me that after at least 12 years of school people still cannot spell properly. Look sometime at how many spell lose with two o's as in "loose". As far as punctuation, it is a bit more challenging. But spelling, seems pretty simple. Although a bit confusing at times. And I am not talking about typos. We all do that. I am talking about blatant misspelling.

                            • 4 votes
                            Reply#7 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:24 AM EST
                            Amber-623911

                            YES! I too have especially noticed the "lose" versus "loose" issue of late. And I think you hit the nail on the head. While it may be true that some very smart people are just naturally bad spellers, after 12 years of school ALL people should at least know the difference between lose and loose, their and there, its and it's. These are things that I learned in the 5th grade or before. I think the real issue is just flat-out laziness, and there is no excuse for that. People who don't care about their spelling and grammar enough to learn the basics, or enough to check their work, are lazy and obviously take no pride in themselves or their work. And for this - laziness and lack of pride - they are doing themselves and humanity a major disservice. How's that for judging?

                            • 5 votes
                            #7.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:27 AM EST
                            jbirdofthe South

                            It was about 10 years ago that I got email from an engineer that was very intelligent, but throughout his message he used "your" instead of "You're". I swear, it was the first time I had ever seen it wirtten that way intentionally. Of course we all know that today so many people simply write "your" when they mean "you're" and "there" when they mean "they're" that I expect both words to soon be declared acceptable alternate ways of spelling. I have even come across media articles in which the author used "your" in place of "you're". America, we're doomed.

                              #7.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:32 AM EST
                              My Knickers were twisted

                              Engineers are not generally known for their excellent spelling:) I do not see that happening, since the two words are completely different in meaning, since one is indicitive of possesion and one is a contraction of two words.

                                #7.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:04 PM EST
                                bitemore

                                Laziness and lack of pride sum it up perfectly. First, those who cannot spell correctly generally know it. If they cannot be bothered to learn, then they should refrain from putting their laziness/stupidity out there for all to see. If they want to demonstrate their laziness/stupidity in a public forum, then they also have to be ready and willing to be corrected. Yes, language evolves, but it evolves in a way that most people agree upon, and over a period of time. Slang has its uses, and new words are coined all the time for new applications. That said, there ARE certain rules that are not to be broken, and for a good reason: clarity. Too many words can have the same sounds but different spellings, and others have the same spellings and different meanings. Sometimes, context alone is not enough to make the meanings clear, and I, for one, refuse to waste my time slogging though what look like lazy messes. Why? Because that kind of laziness (of execution) often means laziness in thinking. If you care enough to write it, then please care enough to make it readable.

                                Typos I can forgive, and it is easier than you may think to tell the difference between a typo and a misspelling.

                                • 7 votes
                                #7.4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:35 PM EST
                                PistOff08

                                Laziness and lack of pride sum it up perfectly

                                Too true. People keep saying that "language evolves," but I don't see this as any kind of evolution. Rather, it's a "de-evolution" brought on by people who are too lazy or indifferent to meet the simplest standards.

                                I had an English teacher in college who spoke in perfectly fluent Ebonics and could not grasp the simplest fundamentals of punctuation to save her life. Every student in the class--myself included--had a clear understanding of the use of commas, but evidently she was deathly afraid of them and would deduct points if she saw too many of the accursed "pointy-tailed periods" swarming across the page.

                                As an example, look at how commas are used to separate items in a sentence. "We bought pastrami, turkey, peanut butter and jelly, and ham sandwiches." Each separate item has its own place and is distinct from the rest, right? Okay. Just checking.

                                About 35 years ago, my first grade teachers taught me that would be proper. Otherwise the sentence structure and thus the entire concept you're trying to convey fall apart. If you said, "we bought pastrami, turkey, peanut butter and jelly and ham sandwiches," it looks like you bought a PBJ with ham sandwich and just forgot how construct the rest of the sentence. And none of us could convince our teacher of that.

                                *sigh* Yes, English is hard, but if you can't keep up with my slow self, quit writing altogether and just flip burgers for the rest of your life.

                                • 5 votes
                                #7.5 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:21 PM EST
                                peacelovensurf

                                I am only eighteen years old and I have been told that I know how to punctuate and spell very well for my age. I get compliments on my spelling based on my age group! It's like people expect an eighteen year old to spell like a five year old, and to be honest, that's pathetic. I can't stand to type without capital letters or periods and commas where they need to be. At the same time, I don't make other's feel bad just because they don't spell or punctuate the way that I do. I don't feel it's my place to tell someone else how to use the English language. As long as I can understand you, do what you want!

                                • 1 vote
                                #7.6 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 2:04 PM EST
                                Puck2u

                                Being able to understand what someone means is not the point here peacelovesurf. If you don't take pride in learning at least the basics then you will foster that bad quality to your children and then they will pass it on to theirs and on and on it goes. No. If you are corrected by someone don't take it as being a bad thing but a learning experience. And then use it from that point forward.

                                • 2 votes
                                #7.7 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 2:49 PM EST
                                Annette H.

                                This is for Peacelovensurf. You put an apostrophe in the word "others." Other than that, good job.

                                  #7.8 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 4:20 PM EST
                                  PistOff08

                                  I am only eighteen years old and I have been told that I know how to punctuate and spell very well for my age.

                                  You're right to be concerned about that "for your age" comment. By eighteen you're ready to hit college or find a job of your own and you'd logically be expected to know these things. Your post tells me you were working in a sub-standard educational system (like I did for my senior year) but you managed to rise above it.

                                  Good post.

                                  For someone your age. :P

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #7.9 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:05 PM EST
                                  dewintre200

                                  I look at it this way : if you half-@ss learn to spell, you're probably a half-@ss learner with respect to everything else you do. This is broadcast to everyone around you each time you put pen to paper. As an employer in a professional field where accuracy is meaningful, I would not hire a half-literate person.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #7.10 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:29 PM EST
                                  AK-370432

                                  I would not hire a half-literate person.

                                  We throw out applicants' resumes, cover letters, and portfolios when they have glaring spelling or grammatical errors... but not before we pass them around to laugh.

                                  How hard is it to have a couple of people proofread these documents? Put your best foot forward -- not in your mouth ;)

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #7.11 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:26 AM EST
                                  Javajim

                                  Seems to me a half-literate person is wholly illiterate!

                                    #7.12 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:21 PM EST
                                    Reply
                                    fran-376438

                                    There are times when I can't seem stop myself. However, I have never corrected an individual's grammar in public. I do, however, advise colleagues of errors in newsletters or other publications because those items represent the organization to the public.

                                    I realize that is difficult to proofread one's own work. As a teacher, I concentrate on searching for errors in the work I distribute to my students. Almost without exception, I find an error on a paper afte I have made multiple copies and as I am handing them out to my class. At that point, I indicate the error and ask the students to make corrections on their copies. It seems compulsive at times. On the other hand, I do not compulsively correct my students' errors. Writing is so much more than grammar and punctuation. There are times for puntilious proofreading and time for encouraging exercises in imagination and free expression.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#8 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:27 AM EST
                                    AK-370432

                                    I find an error on a paper afte I have made multiple copies and as I am handing them out to my class. At that point, I indicate the error and ask the students to make corrections on their copies.

                                    I think that's setting a great example for them -- you're showing that a jumbled word is nothing to be embarrassed about. They should just fix it for the sake of clarity and go on their merry way.

                                    Both the snobs and the chronic typo-makers take this all too personally.

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #8.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:34 AM EST
                                    SuzyQ_TX

                                    Thank you fran. Through the election season we recently went through, I was appalled by the lack of willingness of people to use a dictionary. I rarely bother to correct anyone else, but I did suggest to one man that he try using a dictionary. He was offended. He may even be one of the authors of comments I have read so far. All I wanted to do was let him know that we might better understand wht he wanted to tell us if he would at least spell correctly. I didn't mention the abysmal lack of understanding of correct grammatical usage shown by many of the commentators.

                                    For myself, I sometimes copied what I wrote onto MSWord to look for errors. Even so, I could not control the pesky cursor of my trusty Dell notebook. I notice many of the people who have taken time to write their thoughts here have commented that we can tell the difference between typos and blatant ignorance. I agree. I am happy someone wrote an article about this problem. Given the state of advertising and now text messaging, I doubt that it will do any good, but for those of us who love language, thank you one and all for just saying that we would appreciate a little intelligence being shown by the general populace once in awhile.

                                    • 1 vote
                                    #8.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 2:04 PM EST
                                    Reply
                                    My Knickers were twisted

                                    I could not continue past the word Nickerson, and cannot imagine how someone with a name so horrible mangled would not change it to the proper English spelling of Knickerson.

                                    Reading that N word was like the most horrendous torture that could be devised by mankind to my delicate eye/brain neurological system, and I found it simply incomprehensible that someone who states that she is also plagued by this same unbearable disorder can continue to live with such a dreadfully mispelled name.

                                    Also, adding an a to the word angel is another way of distorting a perfectly good English word, merely to make it into a reference to a particular person, and I find it simply insufferable when that happens so repeatedly in the naming of children, or even of cookies.

                                    Surely there is something that can be done about this, and other gross distortions of the English language, which should remain pristine and perfect, no matter what the purpose it is bent to?

                                    A language should always stay absolutely and completly the same, with no alterations through time, lest the meanings of it subtly change and take on other and possibly more refined definitions, and this we, as the highly intelligent people that we clearly are, simply cannont stand for!

                                      Reply#9 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:33 AM EST
                                      Reply
                                      Kevin-858087

                                      How about "Spokane, WA ?" Or "Reading, PA?" !!!!!!!

                                      Who will join me to light the torches for a march to end the scourge of those communities which blatantly violate the proper pronunciation of "-ane" or "Read-" as in "red" versus "reed?" Oh wait, I mean "reed" versus "red" -- oh, God, there is a huge crack in the floor and all the air is rushing out of the room.

                                      • 3 votes
                                      Reply#10 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:36 AM EST
                                      BaillieUK

                                      Im sorry, but these people are so up themselves it's amazing. I admit, I cannot spell point blank, and its not because I'm not trying or I don't care, Its cos I physically cannot do it, no matter how much I try. People do crictise me for it but I don't pay any attention to those people because they don't deserve my repect or my attention.

                                      These people need to think before they act, or their maybe arguments flying across offices. Being stressed out is no excuse for getting in a fight with someone who is also stressed and knows they struggle with spelling because you'll just start pushing their buttons as well, and before you know it your both fired!

                                      • 1 vote
                                      Reply#11 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:37 AM EST
                                      AK-370432

                                      If you're sending typographic errors and misspellings to business contacts, I can see why your colleagues can get angry, however, if verbal fights are starting because of it, they need to develop some patience -- for all they know you may struggle with dyslexia or a similar disorder that impairs your ability to communicate effectively.

                                      I think if you simply tell your coworkers that spelling is not your strength and that you welcome constructive help, you'll find people can be very understanding and helpful. If this is something that bothers you so much, it's up to you to set the tone as open and communicative, not defensive.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #11.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:43 AM EST
                                      Reply
                                      meems-844030

                                      How about the indescrimate use of WENT in lieu of GONE? I'm not a purist and heaven knows I make mistakes, but did I miss some grammatical change? IRecently, I heard a popular and respected TV anchor and a popular TV host use WENT when they should have used gone. For example, one said, "the young girl sould have went...." Ugh! Is it too much to expect that people who make their living by speaking should not make such basic errors?

                                        Reply#12 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:40 AM EST
                                        Amber-623911

                                        No, you are absolutely right. Professionals have no excuse, they have editors, and if they are making spontaneous comments that aren't grammatically correct then perhaps they shouldn't have the job to begin with. I would never assert that this is true for all jobs, but journalists (on-air or in print) should absolutely have strict grammar standards. And that is a fundamental part of the problem. Even the people we rely on to be and sound educated often don't.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #12.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:31 AM EST
                                        MLIL

                                        I have heard more and more news anchors pronouncing nuclear "nucular." I don't understand it. People used to know that if someone pronounced it "nucular" it was wrong. Now everybody's doing it.

                                        I also cringe when professionals use "less" when it is proper to use "fewer." As in "There were less people at that event this year than last year," or "Women using birth control pills report that they have less pimples than they had before using the Pill."

                                        Make it stop. Please.

                                        And remember, irregardless isn't a word. Irregardless has never been a word. It makes no sense.

                                          #12.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 6:02 PM EST
                                          PistOff08

                                          For example, one said, "the young girl sould have went...."

                                          On that same topic: It is, has been, and hopefully always shall be SHOULD HAVE not "should of!"

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #12.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 8:08 PM EST
                                          MLIL

                                          Oh, thank god somebody said it. One of my many, many pet peeves is the use of "should of," "would of," and "could of." I can understand where they came from; the contractions (should've, would've and could've) end up sounding like "should of" etc when spoken, but it irritates me no end to see them written.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #12.4 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:03 PM EST
                                          Javajim

                                          meems-

                                          I believe you meant "indiscriminate."

                                            #12.5 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:27 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            Kevin-858087

                                            I am entranced by the thought of the need for a new gender and identity neutral and politically correct pronoun. Simply combine "she," "he" and "it." Et voila, "@!$%#."

                                            Ok, back to work.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#13 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:40 AM EST
                                            Lord Farquar

                                            I love it. I mean I love @!$%#. Brilliant.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #13.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:20 PM EST
                                            PistOff08

                                            I tried it when I was five. I got my mouth washed out with soap. My dad was so unappreciative of my linguistic endeavors...

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #13.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:23 PM EST
                                            DH-356393

                                            You ARE the grammarian about whom my mother warned me! That said, people who correct other's grammar in public are not only annoying, but need to develop better social skills; it is just rude as hell. As for those who write terribly and just don't care; don't expect anyone to take you or what you are attempting to say very seriously.

                                              #13.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 3:15 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              rob-bot214

                                              It amazes me that anyone could get angered by those who break the rules of spelling and punctuation in the English language. The language itself is so full of exceptions and contradictions that the so-called rules are little more than suggestions. In most languages the spelling informs you how to pronounce the word, but in English it's a 50-50 chance you will mispronounce a word you've never heard before. Ex: how would you say the made-up word pough? It could be anything from puff to pow to poo to poe.

                                              Word lovers will talk about the history contained in the inconsistencies of the language, showing the roots of words adapted from other languages and the changes in the way English was written and spoken over time. I say the purpose of language is clear communication in the here and now, not a history lesson.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#14 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:43 AM EST
                                              AK-370432

                                              I say the purpose of language is clear communication in the here and now, not a history lesson.

                                              I agree, however, truly clear language comes when readers can scan lines fluidly and without interruption.

                                              When you come across an obvious error, it breaks your concentration -- even if for a split second.

                                              The real problem comes when all those errors -- all those split seconds -- add up; it interferes with your ability to process that information as quickly as your potential allows.

                                              I'm not a grammar snob, but I do wish the population at large could communicate more effectively. I waste time every day just trying to figure out what my clients are asking of me; I receive emails that are merely a collection of headache-inducing sentence fragments, and they end up getting billed for the time I spend "translating" their jumbled requests.

                                              • 3 votes
                                              #14.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:53 AM EST
                                              Bible belt prisoner

                                              Sorry, this is just not true. ie: If tihs is imossible to raed, tehn a vilad pniot can be mdae.  However tests have shown it is quite easy to read, and people tend to only look at the first and last letter to grasp what is being said.  It's odd to look at, but reading it is easy, if you not completely anal.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #14.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:01 PM EST
                                              AK-370432

                                              It's odd to look at, but reading it is easy, if you not completely anal.

                                              I agree, but there's an extent to that truth. While words written that way can be read, try reading many sentences written that way, a long article or essay -- while you certainly can read it, it's not as fast and much less enjoyable.

                                              Of course, poetic license always applies. Rules are meant to be broken with good reason; think of A Clockwork Orange.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #14.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 4:53 PM EST
                                              Reply
                                              fletc3her

                                              Signs cost a lot of money and are difficult to install. Once the restaurant or dry cleaner has their signs put up it could be very difficult to correct them. I'm sure many of them know about the error, but weigh the cost against the embarrassment and decide to run with the original sign.

                                              I like how creative some people get with the temporary signs at movie theaters and grocery stores. They read like text messages sometimes, except with variations like rotated letters or multiple letters stacked.

                                              I must say that extra quotation marks do annoy me sometimes. When a sweater is made of "genuine" cashmere or a food contains "real" cheese, it does make me pause.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#15 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:43 AM EST
                                              oh please-504237

                                              A student worker taped the following sign to the door of one of the ladies' rooms at the college where I teach:

                                              "Bathroom being clean. Please do not use."

                                              I guess we can only use the bathroom when it is being dirty.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #15.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:33 PM EST
                                              SuzyQ_TX

                                              Love it.

                                                #15.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 2:22 PM EST
                                                Reply
                                                Fiona Kapilovic

                                                I'm a middle of the road spelling snob...I understand that not everybody is a perfect speller, but for work related or widespread publications, be it birthday party invitations or a Christmas letter, GET IT TOGETHER! If you aren't a great speller, use spell check and have a good speller proof your work before you send it out to check for usage errors! We all have our strengths and weaknesses but the lady's cavalier attitude is distressing. It's not just that we are stressed out, it's that you should put a little effort into being accurate and competent.

                                                • 5 votes
                                                Reply#16 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:46 AM EST
                                                mary-858347

                                                I agree!! I was told by a school administrator that "we don't need to worry about spelling scores because everyone has spell check". That attitude is what has brought us to this point. It's not about emotional issues, it's about mental laziness and reliance on technology. If you have difficulty spelling there are tools including spell check that can be helpful, but it's still up to you to know which form of the word is appropriate. There are also many mistakes in spelling and punctuation that change the meaning of the sentence. I simply don't want to guess or decipher what you are trying to tell me. It particularly irks me to see the ever increasing grammatical errors in my local newspaper which is written by college graduates who presumably majored in English.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #16.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:25 AM EST
                                                tom343

                                                Well, then those who like to make music should ignore the violin and learn the radio?

                                                  #16.2 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:44 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  Kevin-858087

                                                  , if the purpose of a language is clear communication then look to a formal language.

                                                  Now that you are thinking about a formal language, realize that the concept of negation is prime or axiomatic in formal systems. Unfortunately, this is because it must subsume itself in its definition and thus make an intuitive appeal to the users of that formal language for a hopefully consistent interpretation. Not.

                                                  So, chill.

                                                    Reply#17 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:51 AM EST
                                                    ChangeICanBelieveIn_SiSePuede!

                                                    This is exactly why Bush deserved to get tossed out on his ass.

                                                      #17.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 5:49 PM EST
                                                      Reply
                                                      pdicky

                                                      The misunderstanding and confusion that comes from reading misspelled words and incorrect grammar can be used by the writer to dupe readers who think they understand what is being said into believing a half-truth or an outright lie.

                                                      By being ignorant of the true meaning of a statement, we leave ourselves at the mercy of unscrupulous people who want to make us believe something other than the truth.

                                                      This is pervasive. I see misspellings and other errors even on national news broadcasts all the time. And they are supposed to be the smart ones.

                                                      We might just as well grunt and point to communicate our thoughts.

                                                        Reply#18 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:55 AM EST
                                                        irate missionary kid

                                                        News broadcast irk me most of all, because of they way the pronounce Arabic geographical names.

                                                        My brother who works in the State Department, said that we do not always pronounce placenames the way, natives do. The example he gave me was Paris, Paree, Pah ris.

                                                        I consider myself an average speller and grammarian, but I have trouble occassionally.

                                                        I agree that it is rude to correct people in public; and that, there are various dialects.

                                                        I want people to think about the effect of tolerating ebonics, when the general culture still presents African-Americans as "ghetto". Many of the same people who let ebonics slip by are quick to ridicule any kind of "cracker. The 'you betcha' phrase; as is the Yiddish "schmuck" is a matter of dialect. However, indiplomatic circles neither would be considered acceptable. As Prof. Henry Higgins said,"language use; denotes class".

                                                        Therefore, don't use ebonics, it is too ghetto!

                                                        Ladies running for vice president look like hillbillies and crackers when they say "you betcha".

                                                        Arabs consider their language ARABIC not ARABIAN to be the language of the angels. This is true in many other orally rich cultures where, rhetoric, poetry and language use are highly prized.

                                                        I have forgotten most of the verbal arabic that I knew as a little girl. However, when I do say arabic words correctly, it is appreciated.

                                                        One of the most common complaints about Americans by other people is our lack of cultural and global awareness, indicated by our monolingual skills. Learning and respecting language is a component of learning about culture.

                                                        More Arabs learn English than Americans learn Arabic. Sometimes, people think that if you do not care to use their language, they get the impression that you do not care about them.

                                                        I have a learning disability which makes it difficult to connect my thoughts to a reasonably clear sentence to paper, as well as some grammatical, spelling, and mathematical deficiencies.

                                                        I want to point out that language and the teaching or not teaching of English grammar among other things, is a political result of the revolutionary 60's movements. Did you ever hear an intelligent educated black person remark that other blacks think they are white when they talk on the telephone? Did you ever hear about the student in a poor inner city school being ridiculed because he was being to white by trying to succed?

                                                        The grammarians need to be more tolerant and the language uses need to be more respectful. Even, ebonics speakers have grammatical rules of when it is proper to use @!$%#. It is similar to the French use of vous. These words denote familiarity and cultural space and how the user's culture defines the appropriate expressions.

                                                          #18.1 - Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:45 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          John of Indiana

                                                          Sum peepel need to git ober thair bad selfs.

                                                          OK, that was extreme, but I have to confess, with everything else that's going round and round in the toilet, getting ready to go down the Series of Tubes these days, calling a donut "Krispy Kreme" instead of "Crispy Creme" keeps me up at night the least.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#19 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:56 AM EST
                                                          tom343

                                                          Crispy Cream? Likely spoilt!

                                                            #19.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:45 PM EST
                                                            Reply
                                                            freakymf

                                                            I just pray for the day when people stop saying the word 'route' like it's spelled 'rout' and instead pronounce it correctly 'root'. Everytime I watch football and listen to the announcers misspeak route it makes my ears hurt. It's ROOT, not ROUT. Rout is what a good football team does to a poor team. For goodness sake, please get it right.

                                                            PS. It's I COULDN'T care less, not I COULD care less. Could care less means in fact it's possible that there are things about which you care less. Please say it correctly if you're going to say it at all...

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            Reply#20 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:56 AM EST
                                                            daria-357709

                                                            Thank you, Freaky!!! (sorry, too many exclamation points). That whole "could" or "couldn't" care less statement makes me crazy. If you try to point that out to someone, not only have you gone off topic, the recipient of your constructive criticism gets that glazed-over look in their eyes....probably because they couldn't care less (I know, that was bad).

                                                            Also, like another poster above....the "lose" versus "loose" issue is probably the most common I've seen on Newsvine.

                                                            I'm not a grammar or spelling snob; I'm certainly not perfect, but I do notice misspellings, and it does tend to break my concentration when reading posts (or anything else). I can also see how people can get annoyed with the "spelling police".

                                                              #20.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 12:19 PM EST
                                                              PistOff08

                                                              I just pray for the day when people stop saying the word 'route' like it's spelled 'rout' and instead pronounce it correctly 'root'.

                                                              And on that topic, those darn Canadian shopkeepers I've met telling me they're "oot" of something...we have to deal with that immediately! Curse them and their subversive dialect!

                                                                #20.2 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:26 PM EST
                                                                alise42

                                                                You say tomato, I say tomahto...Freaky, I'm afraid that the problems with 'rowt' and 'root' are due to regional pronunciations. You are right about 'rout', though; it is what a good team does to a poor team.

                                                                  #20.3 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:19 PM EST
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  fletc3her

                                                                  Spokane (pronounced more like "can" than "cane") is derived from a native word. The mapping from the native language to English is often imperfect so one ends up with odd spelling and pronunciation.

                                                                    Reply#21 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:56 AM EST
                                                                    Kevin-858087

                                                                    "Spokane (pronounced more like "can" than "cane") is derived from a native word. The mapping from the native language to English is often imperfect so one ends up with odd spelling and pronunciation."

                                                                    Yes, the mapping is imperfect -- they included a superfluous "e."

                                                                    I grew up in the land of the smelly onion, Chicagoe -- errr... I mean Chicago.

                                                                      #21.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 11:14 AM EST
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      Fiona Kapilovic

                                                                      This issue is akin to going to a public event. Are you going to slap whatever sweats are available and just show up? No! You are going to wear your nice clothes, do your hair, do your make-up and put your best foot forward. You want people to see you as well put together so you make an effort, and you look in the mirror before you leave to make sure you do.

                                                                      • 6 votes
                                                                      Reply#22 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 9:57 AM EST
                                                                      oh please-504237

                                                                      Thank you! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

                                                                        #22.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:35 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Len-355654Deleted
                                                                        Anonymous-348035

                                                                        "Clinging to a rule" is different from making the effort to use English correctly. Our written language is a code to help us communicate, and if the message conforms to the rules of the code it has a better chance of being understood correctly.

                                                                        Of course it's a challenge to write well in English. Our language is rich with words from a variety of foreign or ancient sources and punctuation in written language is something that just isn't required in conversation. So spelling and punctuation take study, but it's certainly worthwhile.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        Reply#24 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:12 AM EST
                                                                        PistOff08

                                                                        We only cling if we're bitter. :P

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        #24.1 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 1:28 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        God bless America

                                                                        More krispie kremes for me!!!

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        Reply#25 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:12 AM EST
                                                                        Shava Nerad

                                                                        One thing that's rarely noticed is that the migration from spoken conversation to mediated text conversation has exacerbated a double standard.

                                                                        People who would never snap at someone for mumbling will go postal over minor typos that are obviously errors of dexterity, not errors of wit or education. But even more, these grammar Nazis are humorless police of the "norm." They would never be able to enjoy Mark Twain or any of the other various amazing authors who wrote in dialect. They must quail at popular musical lyrics of whatever genre and most of modern poetry.

                                                                        It must be a sad, monochrome, white bread life. Think of all the wonderful, colorful personalities they could learn from and enjoy -- if they could just unclench.

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        Reply#26 - Tue Feb 3, 2009 10:15 AM EST
                                                                        tom343

                                                                        Grammar Nazis? It's one thing to feel bad if you spent time with Lizzy while the class studied grammar and thus you didn't learn it. It's another thing to grouse at those who did learn it and now, out of kindness, point out your glaring, continuing, pathetic lapses.

                                                                          #26.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:51 PM EST
                                                                          Reply
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