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Report: Crime labs seriously deficient

Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:05 PM EST
science, crime, only-on-msnbc-com, report, says, labs, crime--courts, forensic, national-academy, forensic-science
msnbc.com News — Pete Williams, msnbc.com - Only on msnbc.com

US Attorney General Eric Holder speaks with the media after participating in the Department of Justice African American History Month program at the Department of Justice in Washington, DC, February 18, 2009.

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WASHINGTON — TON - The nation's crime labs are so seriously deficient that criminals are allowed to go free, the wrong people are sometimes convicted and only a "massive overhaul" can improve the results, according to a long awaited report out Wednesday.

The National Academy of Sciences says with the single exception of DNA, no other crime scene evidence is dependable enough to allow police officers to testify in court, as they often do, that it's "a match" to a specific person. That's true, the report says, of analysis of hair, fibers, bites and tool marks — all of them long used to obtain convictions. Subsequent DNA testing, it says, shows that some of these analyses produce erroneous results.

"The fact is that many forensic tests — such as those used to infer the source of toolmarks or bite marks — have never been exposed to stringent scientific scrutiny," it says, adding that even fingerprints are subject to varying interpretations.

Attorney General Eric Holder declined to address the report's specifics but acknowledged that crime labs face a serious lack of resources. "We need to devote a lot of attention and a lot of resources to that problem," he said.

'Science should serve the law'
The report's authors say the root of the problem is the lack of strict standards. They call on Congress to establish a national institute of forensic science to accredit crime labs, require that analysts be certified and establish uniform standards for analyzing crime scene evidence.

What's more, the report says nearly all crime labs are run by police or prosecutors, which exert pressure to come up with specific conclusions. The labs should be removed from the administrative control of law enforcement agencies or prosecutors, it says.

"Science should serve the law. Law enforcement shouldn't drive the science," said federal Judge Harry T. Edwards of Washington, D.C., one of the panel's co-chairmen.

The panel's conclusions were welcomed by lawyers for the Innocence Project, which has employed DNA evidence to help free 232 wrongly convicted defendants. It says more than half of those cases involved evidence from invalidated branches of forensic science.

'Far too many weaknesses'
"Any self-respecting criminal defense lawyer that doesn't read this report is malpracticing," said the Innocence Project's Barry Scheck.

"But we can't rely on judges, juries, prosecutors and defense lawyers in the cauldron of the courtroom to get to the bottom of what's wrong with certain forensic disciplines," Scheck said.

Sen. Patrick Leahy, the Vermont Democrat who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the report calls attention to "far too many weaknesses in our system of forensic science."

"I am troubled by the report's general finding that far too many forensic disciplines lack the standards necessary to ensure their scientific reliability in court. I am also concerned that forensic laboratories and their experts do not have uniform, mandatory accreditation policies," Leahy said.

Labs underfunded, underequipped
Even so, coming up with the money to adopt the report's recommendations will be difficult in the midst of a troubled economy. Despite that challenge, the report's authors say states can begin to take modest steps by agreeing to have their labs and employees certified.

The National Academy of Sciences was directed by Congress to assess the quality and needs of the nation's crime laboratories. Wednesday's report, "Strengthening Forensic Science in the United States: A Path Forward," is the work of a panel of 17 experts, including scientists and lawyers.

In short, the report says the nation's 389 publicly funded crime labs are underfunded, underequipped and so unconnected to scientific standards that testimony in court about their results is often vastly overstated. Just giving the labs more money, the panel concludes says, will not solve the problem.

"The forensic science community lacks the necessary governance structure to pull itself up from its current weaknesses," it says.

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  • Public Discussion (38)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
cynthia-593055

why not give the science labs in the universities the responsibility and the funding to do the research and discovery on these crime scenes.............without information on the who/and where the students gain the knowledge...the school gets additional funding....the public and courts get a totally UNBIASED report and my guess would be a whole lot faster,information would be processed and in the system with no backwash or political mishandling.

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM EST
MINIme-472320

I agree Cynthia,

Not to mention the huge reduction of innocents being convicted.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:55 PM EST
PureScience

...coming up with the money to adopt the report's recommendations will be difficult in the midst of a troubled economy.

I had to laugh at this quote in the article. How is it that when they are in trouble, we can pony-up tens of billions for automobile manufacturers, and hundreds of billions for the financial industry, yet hesitate at the cost of repairing the foundation of our criminal justice system?

More than any other political decision, failure to address this matter in favor of banking and corporate interests will demonstrate who this nations government serves.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:50 PM EST
ivan, NC

Most likely the funding for science labs and law enforcement in general would be ok if our politicans would stop underfunding these necessary areas. They, the politicans, would rather fund their pet programs than the ones that are really needed. As for myself, I would rather fund the auto companies that employ people than fund the congressand senate that we have who are getting nothing done except argue between themselfes and play at politics.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:16 PM EST
brittany-633223

Can't they just use the Labs on CSI? They have instantaneous results in their labs. LOL

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:37 AM EST
Reply
Brandon-338291

Thank god someone is finally bringing this up. The so-called forensic arts are nothing more than voodoo. The lie detector is the most obvious example of this... the often quoted "90%" accuracy rate is misleading; it is actually 90% accurate if the subject is lying, however, if the subject is telling the truth, the accuracy drops to 50%, ie chance. So if you assume that half of the subjects are lying and half are telling the truth, the actual reliability is only 70%. So almost 1/3 of the results are faulty.

So why are lie detectors used? It's because people are gullible enough to believe they work. After all, it's on "Law and Order," so it must be true. People are much more likely to be railroaded into confessions (sometimes false) if the officer breathing down their neck tells them they have a rock solid case. It's the same with fingerprints, hair samples, etc. These tests are being done by people who barely took a correspondence course, yet people view them as scientific.

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:03 PM EST
urlemmings

This is what happens when the rich in America pay the LOWEST taxes in the industrialized world. EVERYTHING suffers whn 2% of criminals own everything.

Oh well. Its going to get worse. Jails are packed. Everyone has a weapon or 2.

Better stay home...This is what you wanted , capitalism at its finest.

Those who live by the sword..DIE by it..can't have it both ways plutocrats

  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:26 PM EST
Heike

I realize that crime labs as shown in TV dramas such as CSI are unrealistic. However, in my opinion, people wrongly accused of crimes and spending decades in prison has become a trend. Technology is surpassing yesterday's by leaps and bounds in so many ways that I find it difficult to understand that the government has not stepped in to improve the way crime labs are run. I'm not a scientist, far from it, but even as an "ordinary" person, I can see that something needs to be done, and I am glad that scientists and those specializing in the field of criminal science are finally saying "enough is enough". I'm not a politician either, but when people's lives are at stake in crime related situations, it is my opinion that all crime labs should have the same laws and regulations. They should not be controlled by DAs, attorneys and police departments due to the too often negative influences. A crime lab should be a separate entity, so that it can do its job right, or at least to the best of its ability. When the time comes that more changes and rules need to be reviewed, it is my opionion that those in charge of crime labs should have the right to vote, so that the balance is always controlled.

  • 1 vote
Reply#4 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:35 PM EST
TOR-744926

You know...I thought there was something funny about the police running their own crime labs in all those TV shows.

    Reply#5 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:35 PM EST
    Zeke Putnam

    Actually, independent test of lie detectors indicate there isn't any validity at all.  And some personality disorders walk right through the tests as they don't have a shred of reaction.  Unfortunately, these are the types most likely to be involved in crime.  Some months ago, I watched an investigative report on DNA which found lab techs are poorly trained, DNA samples are, often, mishandled and, in some cases, a lab is certified in a very short time.  And lets not even get into shoddy police work.  I worked around the criminal justice system for years and clearly remember public defenders who never met the client until court.  My conclusion was justice exists only in the minds of the middle class. Criminals know it doesn't and the wealthy know it's purchased.  It's all show and tell folks and may the best actor (attorney) win. 

    • 4 votes
    Reply#6 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:38 PM EST
    walt1944

    It has been learned that in order to watch episodes of CSI New York, CSI Miami, CSI Las Vegas, and NCIS, on TV, you will have to contribute whatever money you have left in your wallet or purse to a special organization set up to keep the shows on the air and supplied with stories for you to watch.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#7 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:40 PM EST
    Beebobby

    Instant results for DNA tests as depicted on TV are fantasy. It takes weeks sometimes to get DNA results. To think that a small town PD has the multi-million dollar labs depicted on TV at their disposal is fantasy. Unfortunately, many juries are looking for that kind of evidence before they will give a guilty verdict.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#8 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:49 PM EST
    JLS-895250

    "The nation's crime labs are so seriously deficient that criminals are allowed to go free, the wrong people are sometimes convicted, and only a radical shakeup can improve the results, according to a long-awaited report out Wednesday."

    This lead for the article above is nowhere to be found in the actual report. But here's a quote from the report that doesn't seem to have been important to Mr. Williams: "For decades, the forensic science disciplines have produced valuable evidence that has contributed to the successful prosecution and conviction of criminals as well as to the exoneration of innocent people."

    While the report surely does identify weaknesses and propose solutions, and while there is no question that crime lab scientists have made mistakes that have led to innocent people being convicted and guilty ones being set free, I think it would be fair to tar the rest of the criminal justice system with the same brush. Police officers make mistakes; witnesses make mistakes; judges make mistakes.

    I think it's great that the committee has identified issues and proposed solutions. I hope we implement them. I don't think it's so great that the article describing their work takes the overall view that crime labs suck. Generally speaking, they don't.

    And, by the way, lie detector tests are not one of a crime lab's scientific tools and so they were not considered in this report. And, by the way, most of the crime lab scientists I worked with had a minimum of a master's degree in a relevant science.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#9 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:24 PM EST
    PureScience

    Generally speaking is a level of reliability that is acceptible for most professions and industries overall. But clearly some of them we rely upon to provide the best possible service available at the time we need it.

    For example, if you hear, "he does good job, generally speaking" about the guy working on your car...its fine. But most people wouldn't be comfortable hearing this about a surgeon operating on someone they care about. Or even with respect to the guy managing their retirement fund.

    The impact of the criminal justice system on people is every bit as significant as that of our medical system in terms of the profound changes it can, and does cause in the lives of millions...both guilty and innocent. Surely it should be held to the same level of expectations regarding quality of service as medicine is, don't you agree?

    • 4 votes
    #9.1 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:22 PM EST
    Brandon-338291

    Did they have a degree in science, or marketing? There's zero science behind any of the stuff done other than DNA. It is all based on "taking someone's word" on the subject... it's the authorities saying that it works, therefor it works. Fingerprints... bunk. Hair samples... bunk. I could go on. Nobody would have ever raised a stink and innocent people would continue to go to prison (which ends up lining a lot of pocketbooks... can you imagine paying tens of thousands of dollars a year on renting out a 5' x 10' space?) if it weren't for DNA proving that these methods are about as valid as reading tea leaves.

    • 1 vote
    #9.2 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:49 PM EST
    Rigbee Dugane

    There's zero science behind any of the stuff done other than DNA. Fingerprints... bunk. Hair samples... bunk.

    Out of curiosity, Brandon. What's your background, science-wise? I'm just wondering what you base your finding on.

    • 1 vote
    #9.3 - Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:26 PM EST
    Reply
    John D.-895262

    I've been a forensic patholgist for a number of years. The problems with some crime labs and the few dishonest criminalists that have been reported are very disturbing. However, I am concerned that we will now see more burdensome, irrational regulation by an out-of-touch federal bureaucracy, escalating administrative costs, and a mountain of petty paperwork. This has already happened in the other areas of medicine and has increased costs with little return in terms of quality. Any establishment of national standards needs to be accomplished by the forensic scientists themselves - and yes, this needs to be done soon. What is not needed are more no-nothing bureaucrats creating irrational, unfunded mandates. This will place an additional burden on a system that is largely underfunded in many parts of this country.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#10 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:30 PM EST
    Nick1021

    I say increase the max fine of crimes to include a bill for the crime sceen. Make people pay it like a doctor bill. Don't have the money? Fine, make them work cleaning our road ways. And I hate to say it, but some crimes cost more money to slove then what the damage was.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#11 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:08 PM EST
    U.S. Veteran

    Maybe if we enforced exisitng laws or made them tougher and stop filling our jails with non violent crimes we wouldn't need these services as much or they could be better handled. Also, police officers, sherrifs etc need to stop spending so much of their shift at donut shops (where I've seen multiple patrol cars) or parked behind billboards looking to give speeding tickets to fill their quota when they should be patroling the neighborhoods to protect us and prevent crime from happening in the first place.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#12 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:11 PM EST
    DJ-867199Deleted
    Reply
    Melissa Baker

    Dear American Government:

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop funding bull---- and start funding more important things, like this!!! Why are we putting people in jail for marijuana "offenses" and our taxes are paying for it? Why is taxpayer money supporting the idiot octuplet's Mom? The list goes on and on. the point is, there are some serious needs that we have as a people and that is to separate the dangerous ones from the non-dangerous ones. The responsibility of our government is failing at this because they can't figure out how to control the money.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#13 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:28 PM EST
    little jonny chokin on fumes

    heres something for you from the national register and you fans of obama-He is importing at our cost "up to 21,000,000 of our much needed dollars "refugees"from the gaza strip !!!!!Where hamas lives and breeds and fires rockets at isreal-One of the worlds greatest terror organizations!!!Hamas!!We cant afford the people we have here-so lets just import terrorists huh??Wtf?????????????????How would we know any of them werent terrorists???Why let anyone in this country when we cant pay unemployment to the freakin AMERICANS that need it!!!

    Here's the link http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488

    we wont know what deficient in crime labs is until we get "the gaza"refugees here!!!!!

      Reply#14 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:37 PM EST
      PureScience

      Uhmm...jonny you need to quit huffin' on them fumes, it is clearly affecting your ability to reason in addition to your spelling. Just because Hamas is in Gaza, doesn't make all Gazans members of Hamas.

      And besides, although to you and me that $21 million is a heckofa lot of cash, given the billions the country has lost in pointless conflict, inept and inefficient bureacracy, and outright theft and fraud...don't you think there are vastly more significant things for you to get all worked up about?

      • 4 votes
      #14.1 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:59 PM EST
      Reply
      jOHN b.lURVEY

      Crime Scene Units and Crime Laboratories in general should not be managed by police officials who simply passed a promotional examination with no exposure to a formal science education. The Metro Dade Police Department located in Miami, Fla. was literally dismembered by A police Captain and a Police Chief who did not agree with the autonomy of the Police Technicians that populated the Crime Scene Unit. It was all done with the approval of the department's director. The technician staff were degreed personnel with science as their primary subject. The Crime Scene Staff was so highly thought of they were requested to train personnel throughout the country. Presently there is no requirement for studies in science, making it impossible for unit members to understand basic scientific concepts. Everyone has since retired but that crime scene unit has never recovered. The individuals that are conducting this investigation do not talk the talk or walk the walk and their results are doomed to failure. Contact a few members of the former Police Technician Staff of the Metro-Miami Police Department, but since this is a government effort I doubt the seriousness of their endeavor.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#15 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:47 PM EST
      amindformurder

      Glad to see this report. But the problems are greater. It's not just poorly funded labs but "lab" personnel who often naively practice pseudoscience from "behavior profiling" to even providing "cold case" files for psychics and paranormal intuitives to examine. In investigating several leading TV psychics who have 30-40 year careers I was stunned by the number of paid luncheons and speaking sessions they get booked before forensic training personnel, during coroner regional and national conferences, and from law enforcement investigative seminars. I've also encountered some investigators who have faith in photographic evidence and yet lack an understanding of imaging limitations, basic lens reflective issues, and in the last 15 years digital re-touching methods. These issues aren't just occurring at smaller agencies but some of the largest --- including at the FBI. We have investigators who lack rational interpretations of a crime --- and sometimes turn to paranormal concepts because they can adapt any explanation to "psychic" concepts. I am extremely critical of such nonsense connected with public investigations. For a critical report on one or more TV psychic detectives you can visit the commercial-free sites including a site which is amindformurder. With the traditional web ending.

      Thank you. -John Merrell

      • 1 vote
      Reply#16 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:01 PM EST
      ceanf

      I think to say that some innocent people are sent to jail is an understatement. Government law enforcement money based on arrest on conviction rates lead to a convict at all costs mindset among prosecutors and department heads. In addition there are many prosecutors who are not after truth and justice, but are more focused on padding their records in an effort to advance their careers. And the obvious result are the growing holes in our criminal justice system. What is sad is that the majority of americans support these actions. No longer are we innocent until proven guilty. In the eyes of most of the american public, a mere arrest is evidence of the crime. And anyone who happens to be found innocent just happened to 'beat the rap'. Until these attitudes change, and until the federal government gets out of the business of funding our local law enforcement, the problem will only get worse.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#17 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:04 PM EST
      Rigbee Dugane

      Government law enforcement money based on arrest on conviction rates

      I don't know what country you're from, but that's not the way it works in America.

        #17.1 - Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:29 PM EST
        Reply
        greeneyedlov

        I certainly have to agree.

        When my then 19 y/o son, Joshua, was found dead in Amsler Park/McGregor, TX on February 16, 2006, I now believe that Southwestern Inst. of Forensic Science/Dallas, had to have been totally wrong about the autopsy or is in cahoots with McGregor PD about the coverup of Joshua's death by the police.

        I have researched and analyzed the documents, realted to Josh's case for over 2 years, and the officers' statements are inconsistent and blatant lies. I discovered that a McGregor patrol officer saw Josh in Amsler Park @ 1AM, making him the last person to see Josh alive....Joshua died between 1;15 and 2;15AM!

        www.americaiswatching.org (Joshua Robinson) Attached documents, petition/comment section.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#18 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:28 PM EST
        doktorthomas

        Let's see... fix streets, repair bridges, clean the air, clean the water, good santitation, wholesome food, more forrestry preservation, free national parks, national medical care or crime labs? Forget crime labs; let the criminals pay for that. There's no room in any budget for crime labs. There's no room in any budget for crime labs. There's no room in any budget for crime labs. And, I don't care. Where's the delete for this story? Where's the delete for msnbc? Please fire Pete Williams. Thank you.

          Reply#19 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:49 PM EST
          JLSIII

          I agree with Pure Science that we should have the same expectations of our forensic scientists as we have of our medical professionals. My "generally speaking" comment was intended to be sarcastic. In my years as a crime lab scientist, I never once met a colleage who stretched the truth, used bogus science, biased his results or withheld exculpatory findings. And I never worked for a boss who did not demand care and excellence in my work. My laboratory helped put some very bad people in jail and it also, with at least the same regularity, cleared innocent people of very serious crimes. (So put a lid on it, Brandon.)

          That said, it's clear from this report that not every laboratory meets those standards. They must be forced to do so and accreditation and certification programs would go a long way toward accomplishing that. If we think it's a good idea to license doctors and hospitals, there is no reason not to extend that thinking to forensic scientists and crime labs.

          • 4 votes
          Reply#20 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:59 PM EST
          luvenia48

          Got these just after reading this post. Off subject but thought we all could use a good laugh. These lines were said to come from court recorders and they are making a book. Anyway just thought you would like to laugh for a change.

          ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn't know about
          it until the next morning?
          WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

          ____________________________________

          ATTORNEY: The youngest son, the twenty-year-old, how old is he?
          WITNESS: He's twenty, much like your IQ.

          ___________________________________________

          ATTORNEY: Were you present when your picture was taken?
          WITNESS: Are you kidding me?

          This was just the top three. Hope you enjoyed. LOL LOL

          • 2 votes
          Reply#21 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:57 PM EST
          Dave-425552

          As a retired forensic scientist I believe this report gives a somewhat false impression. In the last several years there has been major progress in accreditation of crime labs, with an increase in accuracy, but some of this has come at the expense of true science and has resulted in the growth of bureaucratic red tape. It seems now that following a cookbook and adhering to each and every regulation is at least as important, if not more so, than arriving at the right answer in your analysis. At my former agency you were not rewarded for independent thought and creativity, so it became easier to simply follow the recipe for analysis, no questions asked. I am convinced that valuable information that might otherwise be derived from evidence slips by under these conditions.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#22 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:08 PM EST
          ejpearcy

          Many, many times from pirates to privateers in expensively tailored suits; I have called for death as the punishment for those who have been destroying America from the inside.

          THIS IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT DETERRENT TO MY TOUGH STANCE ON VIOLENT AND CANCEROUS CRIMES AGAINST WE THE PEOPLE. I and many others are stopped in our tracks when WE THE PEOPLE discover that some among us have convicted INNOCENT PEOPLE of heinous crimes, for which they were sentenced to death or very long prison terms.

          Add to that the personal and familial harm done to the reputations of good people who, THOUGH INNOCENT, were convicted of crimes like murder, rape, child molestation, arson, and other horrific crimes. Imagine the shame and shunning that their children and spouses reaped from such false justice! Imagine the extra challenging life of a prisoner convicted of such heinous crimes ALTHOUGH HE WAS INNOCENT.

          We need excellent forensic lab work. We also need to severely punish those who knowingly contribute to such atrocities against the innocent. How many times did our police, our district attorneys, unscrupulous witnesses bought by threats and bribes, and others tell and repeat what they knew were lies which ended up sending an innocent human being to prison or to death?

          After his absurdly non sequitur of a speech highlighting Black History Month; I have little respect for Holder; but he sure did hit this one on the nail head! Until we prevent these kinds of institutional crimes against innocent people; we need to suspend judgements on capital crimes. We need to keep those, who ARE guilty of such heinous crimes, locked away from their prey; AND we need to lock up only the guilty.

          No less important is the prevention of vicious criminals like Miranda from walking and raping freely because some mental masturbator of a judge decided that their constitutional rights were denied to them. As we all know, the constitutional rights of innocent victims or violent crimes TRUMP those of guilty violent criminals.

          So, we need to clean up both poles of this unjust justice system. We must see to it that those guilty of vicious crimes, violent or not, are severely punished enough to guarantee that they will not repeat their outrages outside of prison walls. Concomitantly, we need to guarantee that those found guilty will actually have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have been guilty as charged.

          This is yet another priority for our scant remaining attention and monies.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#23 - Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:38 PM EST
          W-896844

          It is true that state crime labs are underfunded. However, this article seriously understates the efforts of state crime labs that undergo accreditation such as ASCLD/LAB (American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors/ Laboratory Accreditation Board) and ISO (The International Organization of Standardization)17025. These are internationally recognized bodies that certify crime labs and holds these labs to specific standards. One of the first questions many defense attorneys ask is if your lab is accredited. There has been a push for all forensic labs to attain accreditation or risk their testimony holding little weight.

          As for forensic scientists, we are given proficiencies mandated under ASCLD/LAB and ISO 17025 accreditation. If we do not pass, we are removed from case work, retrained, and then put back on case work once we pass the proficiency. Yes, we get paid by the state, the federal government, or by private labs. But any good forensic scientist will tell you that our job is to report the facts, we work for science, and leave the arguing to the lawyers and the decisions to the jury.

          I do agree that accreditation is a good thing. At present, it is a voluntary action. However, more and more labs are undergoing accreditation because without it, their testimonies are too open for attack. The government labs are underfunded. We get our funds through grants and taxes. That's just the nature of the beast. It would be nice to have more federal money coming in to be able to expand our capabilities or to update equipment. But please, do not read this article and blindly draw upon conclusions. The majority of forensic scientists take great pride in what we do. If you want to know more, please look up ASCLD/LAB and ISO 17025 Guidelines.

          • 4 votes
          Reply#24 - Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:50 AM EST
          Chmst

          I am mad that they don't mention Forensic Chemistry in this article. Chemistry/Drug Sections are usually the biggest in every Lab and they do real science of determining which controlled substance are or are not present.

          We all know drug dealing produces a lot of money in the economy if we just charged drug defendants more we could use that to help fund laboratories.

            Reply#25 - Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:55 AM EST
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